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The Heroine's Awakening with Elizabeth Lesser · Deeply Well with Devi Brown

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Speaker 1: M from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in
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Speaker 1: two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers
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Speaker 1: to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you
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Speaker 1: were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands
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Speaker 1: of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the
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Speaker 1: backs of diamond eyed school children who growing into hymnals
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Speaker 1: recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments
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Speaker 1: out of the windows of restored ALCHEMYO cheriots to keep
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Speaker 1: the warmth of their blood. Be wise, be smart, being black,
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Speaker 1: Opal Brown courts bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of
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Speaker 1: jim se King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife,
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Speaker 1: wife told her daughter, and daughter told the ass. This
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Speaker 1: is at the ancestors told me that you would come
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Speaker 1: to give wisdom of thousands. They said you would come.
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Speaker 1: It's rocking. It's rocking. Welcome to The Dropping Gem's podcast.
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Speaker 1: I'm Debbie Brown. Thank you for being here. It is
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Speaker 1: such a joy always for me to come and do
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Speaker 1: this show and share with you. Oh today, Okay, I'm
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Speaker 1: gonna be one honest with you. This might be the
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Speaker 1: episode I'm most excited about in my whole history of
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Speaker 1: doing this show, and it's for a couple of reasons.
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Speaker 1: The amazing woman that I'm having on the show today
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Speaker 1: is truly a spiritual pioneer, and she has been existing
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Speaker 1: in this world for decades and decades, but specifically at
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Speaker 1: the gorgeous intersection of spirituality and feminism. That is what
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Speaker 1: her life's work is centered on, and it has been
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Speaker 1: a profound expander for myself in my life. So I
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Speaker 1: want to get right into this show. Highly recommend taking
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Speaker 1: a second right now to get a notebook, candy, or
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Speaker 1: just have access to the notes in your phone in
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Speaker 1: case you want to jot a couple of things down
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Speaker 1: and get comfortable. Really, Saver, Savor, Saver. This episode today's
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Speaker 1: show has a very special guest. Her name is Elizabeth Lesser.
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Speaker 1: She's the best selling author and the co founder of
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Speaker 1: the Omega Institute. She's the author of several best selling books,
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Speaker 1: including Cassandra Speaks, When Women Are the Storytellers, The Human
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Speaker 1: Story Changes, my personal favorite, which I know you'll recognize
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Speaker 1: the title of Broken Open, How difficult times can help
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Speaker 1: us grow and marrow, love, loss, and what matters most.
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Speaker 1: She's the co founder of Omega Institute, which is recognized
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Speaker 1: internationally for its workshops and conferences and wellness, spirituality, creativity,
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Speaker 1: and social change. And she's given two extremely popular TED
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Speaker 1: talks and is one of Oprah Winfrey's Super Soul One
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Speaker 1: d a collection of a hundred leaders who are using
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Speaker 1: their voices and talent to elevate humanity. H here is
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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Lesser. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me.
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Speaker 1: It's like a delight. Oh my gosh, Okay, I might
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Speaker 1: cry right now. This episode to date is I think
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Speaker 1: the episode I'm most nervous and really excited about on
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Speaker 1: the deepest level possible. You changed my life in so
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Speaker 1: many ways, in so many ways, I am such such
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Speaker 1: a deep admire of your work, all of your hands
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Speaker 1: on her truly. Um. When I first read your book
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Speaker 1: Broken Open about ten years ago, it changed the trajector
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Speaker 1: ray of how I thought I was allowed to feel
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Speaker 1: about my pursuit of self, what I thought i'd be
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Speaker 1: able to investigate. It gave me courage to use pain
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Speaker 1: as really a profound spiritual tool and to use grief
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Speaker 1: as a tool. And being able to shift my perception
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Speaker 1: was the piece that allowed my life to evolve into
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Speaker 1: what it is now, So I just want to start
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Speaker 1: this show. Was saying, I am so grateful for your existence.
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Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for your work, and I'm so so
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Speaker 1: grateful for just the courage you've had for so many
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Speaker 1: years to introduce people to themselves. Oh wow, that might
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Speaker 1: be the nicest intro I've ever gotten. You know, it's
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Speaker 1: so funny us human beings and us women and our
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Speaker 1: impostor syndrome. Like when I got your introduction and I
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Speaker 1: saw all the people you've had on your show, and
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Speaker 1: I felt like, Realish wants to have me on the show.
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Speaker 1: Everybody's so like hip and young and into it, and
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Speaker 1: I'm just such a woman in her sixties, so out
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Speaker 1: of it, you know. So I was just like, wow,
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Speaker 1: this is an honor. So it's an honor for me too.
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Speaker 1: So we can dispense with the like, you know, oh
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Speaker 1: you're so amazing, or you're so amazing, and just be here,
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Speaker 1: as I say in my book, Broken Open, just bozos
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Speaker 1: on the bus. We are. But you know, I would
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Speaker 1: love to offer to you. I think it is important
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Speaker 1: that you hear that. Even and I know you're so
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Speaker 1: not an ego and so it's you're just like I'm
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Speaker 1: a channel for the divine and and it's a gift
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Speaker 1: to do this work. But that receptive flow, like I
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Speaker 1: just hope you received, thank you recognized. Yeah, both both
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Speaker 1: of those things are so important. Thank you. Yeah. So,
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Speaker 1: something I love so deeply about your work is you've
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Speaker 1: really walked two main paths in your life, this beautiful
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Speaker 1: road of spirituality but also very deeply the feminist path
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Speaker 1: and the way that I've created to so many of
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Speaker 1: the ways that you offer your work. It's it feels
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Speaker 1: like you have spoken to and really recognized some of
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Speaker 1: the deeper, more burrowing questions and conflicts as women we
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Speaker 1: have about even attempting to go on a journey of
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Speaker 1: self or being in our internal worlds, and so many
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Speaker 1: of the things that you expressed, especially in Broken Open
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Speaker 1: but also your observations and the Seekers Guide, it's just
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Speaker 1: I had never heard anything expressed before, but especially said
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Speaker 1: in such a way where there was so much depth
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Speaker 1: of language but also so much simplicity. So it's just like,
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Speaker 1: let me start applying, let me soak it um. So
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Speaker 1: I would love to start with emotional depth, like having
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Speaker 1: access to language, building our way to understand ourselves. How
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Speaker 1: did you begin to understand that as such a powerful pathway,
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Speaker 1: and how can people even begin that journey? Mm hmm. Wow,
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Speaker 1: that's that. That is abut all the answers to your question.
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Speaker 1: We're in your question that Tally said, Uh, you know,
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Speaker 1: as a writer, I spend so much time with words,
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Speaker 1: and words are such powerful vessels for the truth. They
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Speaker 1: can never fully wrap around the truth, you know, the
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Speaker 1: essential truths. That's why the poets, that's why hip hop artists,
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Speaker 1: that's why the most stripped down words that really pack
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Speaker 1: it are. That's why we love them so much. You know.
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Speaker 1: That's why something like the Bible and the Beatitudes, what
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Speaker 1: Jesus said, and all the great words continue. They're like,
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Speaker 1: it's the word, it's the beginning with the word. So
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Speaker 1: for me writing, I just feel very blessed that I
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Speaker 1: love to write and that um, I have spent my
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Speaker 1: life trying to find words. I remember when for quite
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Speaker 1: a while I worked with Oprah and I um, she
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Speaker 1: got in touch with me because she wanted to take
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Speaker 1: these very complicated spiritual books and find a way to
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Speaker 1: pack them into webinars that might allow people who hear
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Speaker 1: the words spiritual or mystical and think that's not me.
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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about that. That's too much for me,
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Speaker 1: you know. I'm just trying to live my life. Don't
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Speaker 1: be the spiritual on me. And so someone had told
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Speaker 1: her about um, not only my books, but the work
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Speaker 1: I've done at Omega Institute describing other people's work. So
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Speaker 1: I worked as a producer with her for a long time,
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Speaker 1: and and I had a little radio show on her
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Speaker 1: serious XM station. And one day she heard me using
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Speaker 1: the word conscious and consciousness. And afterwards she said, don't
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Speaker 1: use that word because so many of the people and
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Speaker 1: I would granted this was about fifteen years ago, but
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Speaker 1: so many of the people who listened to my stations
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Speaker 1: and read my magazine and watch my TV show. To them,
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Speaker 1: the word conscious is the opposite of in a coma,
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Speaker 1: you know. So you lose them right away. If you
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Speaker 1: say conscious, are you conscious? They think, yeah, of course
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Speaker 1: I'm conscious. I'm breathing. So let's what do you mean
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Speaker 1: by conscious? What do you mean by a week? And
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Speaker 1: and and I love to ask myself that all the time.
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Speaker 1: I'm mean by the feminine principle, like you just throw
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Speaker 1: that around and you're not really asking yourself to live
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Speaker 1: up to what it's all about. So I'm always asking myself,
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Speaker 1: what does that even mean? How do I walk that talk?
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Speaker 1: You know, I think and what I'm hearing and what
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Speaker 1: you're saying to It's it's the mastery that's found in
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Speaker 1: the crevices, like the daily crevice work of why did
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Speaker 1: I just feel that way? Or what came up with me? Right?
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Speaker 1: What do you think is so different about being able
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Speaker 1: to be in that more real time process versus I
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Speaker 1: think the way many people experience those discomforts. It's then
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Speaker 1: let me spend an hour on it in the shower,
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Speaker 1: running back, the conversation, running through. But it seems like
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Speaker 1: it's more through what ego lens when that happens. So
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Speaker 1: what is the importance of kind of that momentary processing?
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Speaker 1: M Yeah, a lot of times, especially because I have
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Speaker 1: worked at Omega Institute of Conference and Retreat Center outside
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Speaker 1: of New York, which is all about teaching people the
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Speaker 1: skill of mindfulness and body awareness and healing and all
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Speaker 1: the things you are such a masterful speaker about. Um.
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Speaker 1: I I have noticed over and over people come and
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Speaker 1: take workshops, you know, workshop junkies who are like, I'm
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Speaker 1: I'm coming to this yoga class. I'm gonna really perfect
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Speaker 1: the pose, and I'm gonna have the best yoga pants
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Speaker 1: and the newest kind of meditation map, and like this
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Speaker 1: what's called spiritual materialism. Like if I I just buy
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Speaker 1: the right things, or learn the right Sanskrit words, or
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Speaker 1: do the right things, then maybe I'll have this thing
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Speaker 1: called self cares or self reflection or enlightenment. When indeed,
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Speaker 1: as you say, it's when the rubber meets the road
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Speaker 1: of real life. So meditation is a practice. I mean
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Speaker 1: I used to have three sons and they were all
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Speaker 1: basketball players, and I used to watch them, like practicing
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Speaker 1: their drills all the time. You're just out there bouncing
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Speaker 1: that freaking ball over and over. Try not so they
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Speaker 1: became great drill players, but so that they could do
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Speaker 1: the art of basketball well, meditation and yoga and prayer,
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Speaker 1: whatever you do. It's just like that. You're not doing
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Speaker 1: it to become a great meditator or even to become
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Speaker 1: a great yogi. You're doing it so you can play
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Speaker 1: the game of life, real life. So you're in a
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Speaker 1: room with your kid who's having a tantrum. You need
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Speaker 1: her to put on her shoes to get her to camp.
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Speaker 1: Or whatever it is she's doing and she won't do it,
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Speaker 1: and you feel that thing rising in you where you
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Speaker 1: just want to like haul off and yell or yank
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Speaker 1: or whatever. And that's when your practice comes in. Like
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Speaker 1: meditation teaches you to the pause. It's called like take
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Speaker 1: a pause and become that person within you who can
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Speaker 1: very quickly, right now observe the whole situation in a second.
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Speaker 1: Oh she's hungry, Oh her feelings are hurt. Oh she
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Speaker 1: needs a hug, or oh she really does need firmness,
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Speaker 1: and your higher self immediately is downloaded into the moment.
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Speaker 1: That's why we meditate, not so that what people think
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Speaker 1: we're so cool. It's like I would like to be
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Speaker 1: a a nerd dork who meditates because I'm not doing
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Speaker 1: it to be cool. I'm doing it to be a
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Speaker 1: really fine human being every day. Ah wow, so beautifully said.
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Speaker 1: And I found that it's it's the pause that actually
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Speaker 1: changes your life. And that was a big shift for
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Speaker 1: me because even when I started meditating, I was very
13:53
Speaker 1: much meditating the way of Okay, I'm gonna meditate for
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Speaker 1: twenty minutes, then I'm gonna do this. Then I'm mediate this,
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Speaker 1: you know, and you're really just caught up in in
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Speaker 1: like the method of it or or in the structure
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Speaker 1: of it. But when coming into that surrender of it
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Speaker 1: and just the beautiful disarray that it sometimes is, it's
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Speaker 1: like you find that peace and that pause and that
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Speaker 1: that is the shift. The world is not going to shift. See,
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Speaker 1: that's the thing. And boy are we learning that now.
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Speaker 1: I mean, look at what this year has been. This year.
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Speaker 1: If it's not going to catch you here, it's gonna
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Speaker 1: catch you here. If it's not you know, racial reckoning,
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Speaker 1: it's climate change, it's the pandemic, it's losing your job,
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Speaker 1: it's it's everything. And so that's that's our work. That's
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Speaker 1: our worked, but our our source of of aliveness is
14:56
Speaker 1: inside us and then we bring that out to do
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Speaker 1: the work in the world. Yeah, we are. We are
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Speaker 1: entrenched in opportunity after opportunity right now to really learn
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Speaker 1: some self referral. And it sucks. It's not like meditation
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Speaker 1: makes it seem fun, but it gives you some ground. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: you know. Speaking of Omega Institute, Um, wow, first it
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Speaker 1: I'm really excited because I'll be on campus for the
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Speaker 1: first time in October. I'm going to be a speaker
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Speaker 1: on the Raicky Retreat with William rand I wasn't really
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Speaker 1: aware of this. I can't keep it all straight in
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Speaker 1: my head. Well, I hope you are in the area,
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Speaker 1: because I will be searching for you. I will be there.
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Speaker 1: I will come say hi to you. That will be
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Speaker 1: so incredible. You know, you co founded this really phenomenal
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Speaker 1: campus over forty years ago, and it blows me way
15:57
Speaker 1: to even think that something I've I found myself off
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Speaker 1: and on in deep thought about over over the last
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Speaker 1: year is people such as yourself, these really huge paradigm shifters,
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Speaker 1: like you saw forty years ago the work that was
16:17
Speaker 1: needed on this planet, and then not only did you
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Speaker 1: apply it to yourself, but you created structure so that
16:23
Speaker 1: masses of people could awaken. It's just mind blowing to
16:26
Speaker 1: me to think about in this moment, especially when almost
16:30
Speaker 1: forty years ago, having conversations like this out loud was
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Speaker 1: so incredibly rare and really perceived as very strange. What
16:40
Speaker 1: are you noticing about the moment of awakening forty years
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Speaker 1: ago versus what we're standing in now, and are you
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Speaker 1: seeing any differences and how we're on the spiritual path um.
16:54
Speaker 1: I'm seeing massive differences, and then of course no differences
16:59
Speaker 1: because I'm so level. You know, all you have to
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Speaker 1: do is go back and read the most ancient texts
17:05
Speaker 1: that whether it's a bagavad Gita, or the Koran, or
17:10
Speaker 1: or the Bible or or the Taoists, you know, it's
17:14
Speaker 1: like it's fresh. The poetry of Roomy, twelfth century Persian
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Speaker 1: poet is the biggest selling poet in the world now.
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Speaker 1: So that's enough to tell us nothing really changes when
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Speaker 1: it comes to the mystery of being being alive. I
17:34
Speaker 1: often think about the cave men and women sitting around
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Speaker 1: the cave, our oldest ancestors on the savannahs in Africa,
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Speaker 1: looking up at the sky and having very little language.
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Speaker 1: But I know their first questions to each other were
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Speaker 1: what where did we come from? What do we do
17:54
Speaker 1: now that we're here? Where do we go and we die?
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Speaker 1: How do we have relationship? You know? What what does
18:01
Speaker 1: it mean to purpose? People asking and not answering this
18:05
Speaker 1: question for ever? So has anything changed? No, but have
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Speaker 1: the way it's been integrated into culture and used to
18:18
Speaker 1: mitigate the challenges of the times. I have so much
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Speaker 1: hope for these times. I think it's an amazing situation
18:26
Speaker 1: we're living in right now. I mean, to me, my
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Speaker 1: hero at the moment is Simone Biles. Simone Biles took
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Speaker 1: the warrior code and lived it her whole young life.
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Speaker 1: Because the best competitor in the world in her sport,
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Speaker 1: she knows how to win, she knows how to prevail,
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Speaker 1: she knows how to push. It's very much sort of
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Speaker 1: the g the masculine energy. And then she showed us
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Speaker 1: how to be an integrated human being because all this
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Speaker 1: work people like you and me have been doing on vulnerability.
19:06
Speaker 1: I know that you stepped down from a lot of
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Speaker 1: of intense responsibility because you listen to your body and
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Speaker 1: your heart, Davy and and and you said, I'm going
19:17
Speaker 1: to honor what my mental health and physical health asks. Now, well,
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Speaker 1: she did this on the world's large stage, and I
19:26
Speaker 1: swear I cry about it every time I talk about
19:29
Speaker 1: it or think about it. Like she said, this is
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Speaker 1: what a warrior looks like to I'm going to take
19:37
Speaker 1: care of myself. I'm going to hand over to my team,
19:41
Speaker 1: and it's I don't have to be the special one.
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Speaker 1: And and what really excites me isn't only that she
19:49
Speaker 1: did it, but that most of the world men women athletes,
19:55
Speaker 1: observers said, you go simone, thank you than cute. Now,
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Speaker 1: of course, there's the grumpy dudes, for whom this threatens
20:05
Speaker 1: everything about them. The code of never give up, always fight,
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Speaker 1: you know, sort of the militaristic, the mistaken idea that
20:16
Speaker 1: to be masculine is to be violent and to be
20:21
Speaker 1: always fight or flight. Um, she's challenged that, and most
20:27
Speaker 1: of the world said yes, mm hmm, so give me
20:34
Speaker 1: that's hopeful. That's a sign that that spiritual practice is
20:38
Speaker 1: bearing fruit and we're looking at a new way to
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Speaker 1: be a hero. I love that, and I think it's
20:45
Speaker 1: a sign of hope because the whole world needs to
20:48
Speaker 1: take a break. What I feel is really shifting in
21:19
Speaker 1: this moment um, especially as it relates to like this
21:25
Speaker 1: this intense kind of awakening that's happening on the planet
21:28
Speaker 1: or deepening in people compared two years ago. It's it's
21:31
Speaker 1: really we had this huge foundational shift over the last
21:35
Speaker 1: six years, from the Me Too movement to all the
21:38
Speaker 1: social injustice that not only came to the forefront in
21:41
Speaker 1: new ways, but people had to witness it no matter what,
21:46
Speaker 1: which means everybody is getting cracked open in these small ways,
21:49
Speaker 1: but it feels like at least in the way I'm
21:51
Speaker 1: experiencing it, And I love your thoughts for women now
21:55
Speaker 1: on the spiritual path, it seems that some new veils
21:58
Speaker 1: were removed that have been collectively understood that we're not
22:01
Speaker 1: going to operate in that framework, specifically like this role
22:04
Speaker 1: of martyrdom or this idea that women have to deplete
22:08
Speaker 1: their existence in order to be worthy. Um, and that
22:13
Speaker 1: has felt so powerful I think for me on this
22:16
Speaker 1: path and and for many on this path, um, So
22:19
Speaker 1: I would just I would love your thoughts even on
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Speaker 1: the spiritual journey for women, um. And and even dismantling
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Speaker 1: some of that, some of those structures and some of
22:29
Speaker 1: those systems that we even put our souls into the
22:33
Speaker 1: confines of right, dismantling our inner patriarchy, just like just
22:40
Speaker 1: for women, I mean, dismantling patriarchy is a whole other subject.
22:44
Speaker 1: Happy to talk about activists in me who would like
22:48
Speaker 1: to go out there and does go out there, but um,
22:52
Speaker 1: dismantling our the way the messages still stick to us
22:58
Speaker 1: is the spiritual work women. I mean, this is what
23:01
Speaker 1: and I feel are our teachers now, in particular are
23:07
Speaker 1: black women because I feel the code dismantling you have
23:13
Speaker 1: to do with white supremacy is has has I don't know,
23:19
Speaker 1: I just I just think this that these are the
23:22
Speaker 1: leaders now black women. I mean just you don't even
23:25
Speaker 1: have to think that or want that. Just look around.
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Speaker 1: These are this is what's happening now. So I how
23:36
Speaker 1: do we dismantle our inner patriarchy? And by that I
23:41
Speaker 1: mean women. We have gotten our foot in the door
23:48
Speaker 1: of so many industries and areas, whether it's business or politics,
23:54
Speaker 1: or just being the heads of our family. But I'm
23:58
Speaker 1: not interested in that anymore. I'm interested in we do
24:01
Speaker 1: when we get in the door, when that door opens,
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Speaker 1: do we want to just walk into it and become
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Speaker 1: the patriarch? Or do we want to do power differently?
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Speaker 1: And there is a way to do power differently. And
24:17
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean just because we're women who now
24:20
Speaker 1: have a lot of influence in the world, that we're
24:23
Speaker 1: going to do it differently. We got to make sure
24:25
Speaker 1: that we do it differently, and we have to devote
24:28
Speaker 1: ourselves to self reflection. To Um. I quote at the
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Speaker 1: beginning of my book, Um Cassandra speaks my new book
24:40
Speaker 1: about women and storytelling, I quote Tony Morrison, who says,
24:45
Speaker 1: as you enter positions of trust and power, dream a
24:50
Speaker 1: little before you think. And what she means by that,
24:55
Speaker 1: I think is we have been told forever that our
24:58
Speaker 1: dreams are second Our dreams are too emotional. They're about
25:03
Speaker 1: things like love and connection and relationship. That's all like
25:08
Speaker 1: kind of touchy feely. Leave that in the kindergarten room
25:11
Speaker 1: or Valentine Day cards. You know, like your dreams are
25:15
Speaker 1: too small there, they don't have backbone. They're about caring
25:19
Speaker 1: and things like that. Well, what Tony Morrison tells me
25:24
Speaker 1: in that quote is that trust our dreams. Our dreams
25:27
Speaker 1: are going to save the world. Our dreams that have
25:30
Speaker 1: been called second rate forever now have to be first
25:35
Speaker 1: the dreams of caring, of creating a caring economy, creating
25:40
Speaker 1: emotional intelligence as the intelligence men and women both need.
25:46
Speaker 1: We tell boys, we tell girls you can be anything
25:50
Speaker 1: a boy can be. Now we've got to tell boys
25:52
Speaker 1: you can be anything a girl can be. Like, how
25:56
Speaker 1: about if we tell how a bud if that's all
25:59
Speaker 1: we did, those of us with son say, honey, you
26:01
Speaker 1: can be anything a girl can be. If you think
26:05
Speaker 1: a girl is all about um being kinder or nicer,
26:10
Speaker 1: or talking more or nurturing more. Not that that's the
26:15
Speaker 1: only thing girls can do, but like you can do
26:17
Speaker 1: that too, that is what a hero does. Wow. Wow,
26:26
Speaker 1: that made me think of my son. He's three, and
26:29
Speaker 1: part of the way that I am looking to give
26:34
Speaker 1: him access to himself is by really being intentional, by
26:38
Speaker 1: not like kind of adding sexism to the language that
26:41
Speaker 1: I use with him. So like, I love calling him beautiful.
26:44
Speaker 1: I'm always like, you are so beautiful, You're gorgeous, You're
26:48
Speaker 1: you know, you're so kind. What a great way, you know,
26:52
Speaker 1: I like to highlight those qualities that you just said,
26:55
Speaker 1: So that that felt so beautiful to hear, you know. Um,
27:00
Speaker 1: when I was researching for the book, of Course, I
27:03
Speaker 1: was going back into all these old myths and stories
27:06
Speaker 1: and video games and the stories that our culture is
27:11
Speaker 1: built upon, so many of them only featuring men, written
27:16
Speaker 1: by men, and I came across a different kind of story,
27:20
Speaker 1: a science story I call it, which is that in
27:24
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties and forties, Harvard professor doctor of psychology
27:30
Speaker 1: brought people into his lab at Harvard and he wanted
27:33
Speaker 1: to measure what happens two people under stress so he
27:39
Speaker 1: stimulated these stressful situation situations and then measured the hormones
27:44
Speaker 1: and blood chemicals, and he was the man who came
27:47
Speaker 1: up with the phrase fight or flight. Under stress, human
27:51
Speaker 1: beings either aggress or retreat. And then fast forward to
27:57
Speaker 1: the early two thousand's, a woman net U c l
28:00
Speaker 1: A named Dr Shelley Taylor noticed that the only people
28:05
Speaker 1: Dr Taylor brought, i mean Dr Dr harvard Man brought
28:10
Speaker 1: into the lab were men, because that's the only people
28:14
Speaker 1: that medical studies were done on really until recently, you know,
28:19
Speaker 1: even heart disease was they realized recently, only men have
28:22
Speaker 1: been studied, so we didn't even know what the symptoms
28:25
Speaker 1: were in women or what medication doses we should use.
28:29
Speaker 1: So the we came up with fight or flight from
28:33
Speaker 1: studies only done on men. So Dr Taylor brought women
28:36
Speaker 1: into the lab and replicated the studies, and yes, sometimes,
28:42
Speaker 1: but not that frequently, understress, women's hormones show elevated fight
28:48
Speaker 1: or flight. But also something she ended up calling tend
28:54
Speaker 1: and befriend. Women have an instinct, as measured in hormones
28:59
Speaker 1: when the go and gets rough, to tend to the
29:02
Speaker 1: to the most vulnerable in the community. How are the kids? Hey,
29:06
Speaker 1: mom and dad? Come here? And how can I care?
29:10
Speaker 1: From you? Looking up? How do you take care of
29:13
Speaker 1: someone under COVID? And and bringing the family together? And
29:17
Speaker 1: that's the tend and then befriend under stress, women have
29:21
Speaker 1: an instinct to want to create circles of friendship. You know,
29:25
Speaker 1: you have a hard day, what do you do? You
29:27
Speaker 1: don't come home? Usually grab a beer and just watch TV.
29:30
Speaker 1: You call your friends, this happened, that happened. What would
29:34
Speaker 1: you do? This is what I did? And you create
29:37
Speaker 1: communities of caring. Anyway, this is not all women, all men,
29:42
Speaker 1: but hormonally women do have a tenden befriend instinct that
29:51
Speaker 1: is elevated under stress. And what I take from that is, Okay,
29:56
Speaker 1: we created this story, starting with the Odyssey and other
30:00
Speaker 1: Greeks and Chinese myths, that there's only one way to
30:04
Speaker 1: deal with the problems of life conquer fight or run
30:08
Speaker 1: away and let the other victor have it, you know,
30:11
Speaker 1: fight or flight. But there is a whole other way
30:15
Speaker 1: that we have subjugated and devalued, and it's called tandenby
30:21
Speaker 1: friend and which is what now I feel is the
30:24
Speaker 1: instinct that's got to prevail. Wow, Mic Drop, Wow, Wow.
30:34
Speaker 1: You know that is so incredible, and it this further
30:38
Speaker 1: for me something I've been thought about a lot, and
30:40
Speaker 1: I want to highlight for everyone a couple a couple
30:42
Speaker 1: of pieces of work that really touched me HER's recently,
30:45
Speaker 1: a few articles. You have an article right now that
30:48
Speaker 1: everyone write this down if you have a notebook, Candy,
30:50
Speaker 1: and please look it up to spend time with in
30:53
Speaker 1: the Sunday Paper. It's called Facing the Grief of Gathering
30:56
Speaker 1: in our Hearts. And another article that I just read
30:59
Speaker 1: of you was women Power in the Shadow and really
31:02
Speaker 1: connecting too much of what you were saying around this
31:10
Speaker 1: this more inherent way of being that we were created
31:13
Speaker 1: with or that we incarnated with, but using that softness,
31:19
Speaker 1: that reason, that nurturance as the guiding force for what
31:22
Speaker 1: we're doing and what you're explaining to me feels like
31:25
Speaker 1: what is so different about this shift in this moment
31:28
Speaker 1: in time, Like we went from this kind of hero's
31:31
Speaker 1: journey structure which was so rooted in that power in
31:34
Speaker 1: that warrior two more of like the gentle warrior, the
31:37
Speaker 1: silent power, the the way I experienced it as like
31:41
Speaker 1: the invocation, like we are able to use our radiance
31:45
Speaker 1: and our nurturance as a healing balmb for ourselves in
31:48
Speaker 1: the world in this moment. Yeah, and and that's not
31:52
Speaker 1: to say that sometimes the backbone of the of the
31:57
Speaker 1: ancient warrior isn't something we need and want to cultivate.
32:02
Speaker 1: We don't want to just replace one archy with another,
32:06
Speaker 1: you know, we don't want to. Now it's gonna be
32:08
Speaker 1: matriarchy and the dudes are all bad and the girls
32:11
Speaker 1: are all good. Like, we don't want that that dualism.
32:15
Speaker 1: We we want to be full human beings in the
32:20
Speaker 1: In the end part of my new book, I teach
32:22
Speaker 1: a practice and I describe it in the book. I
32:25
Speaker 1: don't have to describe it now, but um it's called
32:28
Speaker 1: the do no harm but take no Ship meditatement. And
32:33
Speaker 1: I use this this ancient Hindu Mudra hand gesture where
32:40
Speaker 1: one hand is making the stop sign. And you a
32:42
Speaker 1: lot of you who have garden statues of Buddhas will
32:45
Speaker 1: recognize it. One hand is making the stop sign, the
32:48
Speaker 1: other hand is like a cup holding the rein and
32:51
Speaker 1: you hold those two gestures and you can feel it
32:55
Speaker 1: in your body. The stop sign is like take no ship.
32:59
Speaker 1: Like I know my boundaries. Okay, I know who I am. Also,
33:03
Speaker 1: I value who I am. Also I'm going to be
33:07
Speaker 1: who I am and then the other one. But do
33:10
Speaker 1: no harm. You can do all that, take no ship
33:13
Speaker 1: business and do it with love, and you can you
33:17
Speaker 1: can understand the other person in front of you, who
33:20
Speaker 1: may be feeling the same thing like no no boundaries,
33:23
Speaker 1: and you took together can soften those boundaries while respecting
33:27
Speaker 1: each other. So I like to to sit with these
33:31
Speaker 1: hand gestures and say to myself, maybe before a meeting
33:35
Speaker 1: or something, I can do no harm and I can
33:38
Speaker 1: take no ship. I can do both of these. I
33:40
Speaker 1: can be both of these. M m m yeah, that
33:45
Speaker 1: inner union of both aspects of ourselves and knowing that
33:48
Speaker 1: we can fully stand in both. God, that is so free.
33:52
Speaker 1: I think about women in history so often, Elizabeth, and
33:55
Speaker 1: your latest book, as Sandra speaks, when women are the
33:58
Speaker 1: storytellers the men's story changes, is such an exciting read. Um.
34:05
Speaker 1: I think a lot about it in context, especially with
34:07
Speaker 1: Mother Mary and with Mary Magdalene and with Christ and
34:10
Speaker 1: with that beautiful teachings that they all did, but then
34:15
Speaker 1: only one got credit, right, you know, And and it's
34:22
Speaker 1: so interesting and even in the way that Mary Magdalene
34:25
Speaker 1: was placed into this this false system of you know,
34:30
Speaker 1: being called a sex worker in ancient times, but that
34:32
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily her truth, but the way that that was
34:35
Speaker 1: just sprinkled into human history and then became the prevailing story.
34:39
Speaker 1: Like it fascinates me and you sharing specifically around how
34:44
Speaker 1: we came up with fight or flight and are applying
34:46
Speaker 1: all of these things and all of these kind of
34:49
Speaker 1: silencing of the way that women operate. It's so interesting
34:54
Speaker 1: because it is it is hit every facet of our
34:57
Speaker 1: being in existence, like even in a sexual a world.
35:01
Speaker 1: The clitterest was just mapped in the last couple of
35:04
Speaker 1: years for the first time ever. Why do I know
35:08
Speaker 1: what male genitalia is like in out how? No? Really?
35:15
Speaker 1: And the fact that Mary we can only love Mary
35:19
Speaker 1: because she was a virgin, which makes no sense. Hello,
35:24
Speaker 1: but that was the only way they could fit a
35:26
Speaker 1: woman into the Godhead because she was a virgin. I mean,
35:33
Speaker 1: really break that down that which is so it was
35:37
Speaker 1: married like why I don't understand, Like how how is
35:43
Speaker 1: that even? How did that even this idea of of
35:48
Speaker 1: this male view of purity. It is just so fascinating
35:53
Speaker 1: all of these layers and who was this team of
35:55
Speaker 1: man Elizabeth that one day thousands of years ago changed
36:00
Speaker 1: everything about the history of women. They are the same
36:03
Speaker 1: men who today I want to go back to the
36:07
Speaker 1: way it was, And there's lots of them, Like so
36:10
Speaker 1: much is changing, but it requires a certain vigilance to
36:15
Speaker 1: keep things changing, because it'll go back that way if
36:18
Speaker 1: we don't stay awake and be the the do no
36:23
Speaker 1: harm but take no ship kind of activist type people.
36:28
Speaker 1: I mean, look at look at I mean all all
36:32
Speaker 1: honored to Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson.
36:36
Speaker 1: I'm sure they're nice people, or maybe they're not. But
36:39
Speaker 1: why do they want to take a gazillion billion dollars
36:44
Speaker 1: and continue this myth of the explorer, the warrior, the exploiter.
36:49
Speaker 1: It's like, oh what, we already dug all the stuff
36:53
Speaker 1: out of the earth and polluted it. We better go
36:55
Speaker 1: somewhere else and do it like, no, no, can we
36:59
Speaker 1: change the story here? Can we make heroism the hero
37:05
Speaker 1: myth is now about caring for the forests and trees
37:10
Speaker 1: and animals and babies and men and women. We're gonna care.
37:14
Speaker 1: We're gonna make it really cool to care. Do not
37:19
Speaker 1: have to go and to another planet and extract everything
37:23
Speaker 1: from there to continue the hero myth. I'm so done
37:27
Speaker 1: with it. I'm so over it. It has a very
37:30
Speaker 1: bad ending, dude, right, it doesn't end well, Oh my gosh,
37:41
Speaker 1: this has been so amazing for me. So I'm just
37:43
Speaker 1: gonna say that again, and I'm gonna say it when
37:45
Speaker 1: you on campus that a mega and I really just
37:49
Speaker 1: what are you excited about right now? I'd love to
37:53
Speaker 1: end with that, what are you excited about as it
37:55
Speaker 1: relates to the energy that's available on Earth in this moment,
37:59
Speaker 1: the t chains that are that are coming out, you know,
38:02
Speaker 1: you speaking especially to black women as being leaders in
38:06
Speaker 1: this space is so powerful for me because I think
38:09
Speaker 1: when I think of some of the ways that I've
38:11
Speaker 1: cultivated my teaching or my deep desire to serve, it's
38:15
Speaker 1: really rooted in the fact that, you know, so many
38:19
Speaker 1: of us have been able to become ourselves with so
38:24
Speaker 1: much less um. But that also that that kind of minimalism,
38:29
Speaker 1: even deep in the intimacy of the process for me,
38:32
Speaker 1: um and for many women that I know that are
38:34
Speaker 1: of color in this space, So that for me is exciting, UM,
38:38
Speaker 1: so exciting, is doing this work. But you've been such
38:41
Speaker 1: a just a profound trailblazer in so many ways, through
38:45
Speaker 1: the storytelling of women, through the sharing of spirituality, through
38:49
Speaker 1: the founding of this epic campus forty years ago. I mean,
38:54
Speaker 1: my god, you're just everything. So what are you excited
38:59
Speaker 1: about right? Well, I don't I don't say this as
39:04
Speaker 1: a way of false humility. I really mean what I'm
39:08
Speaker 1: about to say. I'm sixty eight now, I feel excellent
39:13
Speaker 1: and healthy and maybe healthier than I ever have. But
39:17
Speaker 1: I you know, when you're when you're a serious quote
39:22
Speaker 1: unquote spiritual practitioner, the work is really feeling deeply into
39:28
Speaker 1: what is so for me right now culture tells me,
39:33
Speaker 1: not what my fear tells me. What is here for
39:36
Speaker 1: me right now? And aging is a really fascinating part
39:41
Speaker 1: of the human journey. And if I'm honest with myself
39:46
Speaker 1: and with you right now, because you ask that question,
39:48
Speaker 1: so sincerely, it is my time to step back and
39:53
Speaker 1: to step aside, not like you take over this crap
39:57
Speaker 1: now I'm tired of it, Not like that. It's like
40:01
Speaker 1: I did my thing. I love what I did. I
40:04
Speaker 1: stand with pride by what you said I did. Like
40:08
Speaker 1: but I'm also kind of not only a little tired,
40:12
Speaker 1: but also like when I was writing Cassandra Speaks, I
40:17
Speaker 1: was very aware, Wow, there's so much going on in
40:20
Speaker 1: the world of sexuality and gender now. I don't kind
40:25
Speaker 1: of get a lot of it, gender fluidity, trans work,
40:29
Speaker 1: like a lot of it is. It's not that I'm
40:31
Speaker 1: against it, It's like I wasn't born with the chip
40:36
Speaker 1: to understand that I was wanting to do something else.
40:39
Speaker 1: I don't want to try to smash my self into
40:44
Speaker 1: the new energy. I really want to feed you and
40:50
Speaker 1: the next women and men coming up. I want to
40:53
Speaker 1: be here with what I literally can give and not
40:57
Speaker 1: try to pretend that I can give something else. So
41:00
Speaker 1: what I'm excited about is you. I'm excited about the
41:05
Speaker 1: next coming up group of spiritually awakened and politically woke
41:13
Speaker 1: human beings, especially women, just because I'm a woman and
41:17
Speaker 1: I get what women are all about. I mean, I've
41:19
Speaker 1: been married to two different men, not at the same time,
41:23
Speaker 1: of course, and um, I have sons, I have grandsons,
41:27
Speaker 1: So I love men, and I'm so impressed with what
41:30
Speaker 1: a lot of men are doing now, I really am.
41:33
Speaker 1: But I'm excited about younger women opening the door and
41:39
Speaker 1: walking into the old world with new dreams. I love that.
41:48
Speaker 1: That is what it feels like to it. Really, it's
41:52
Speaker 1: just there. There's just so much beautiful merging in this moment.
41:56
Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful to hear you say that. And
41:58
Speaker 1: I see that also as as just a call to
42:02
Speaker 1: continue to deepen in my work and stand in my
42:05
Speaker 1: power and presence. I know I stand on the shoulders
42:08
Speaker 1: of amazing people, and so i'm I'm I'm ready to
42:13
Speaker 1: be a shoulder mm hmm. Thank you so much. Thank
42:19
Speaker 1: you for your time, thank you for your work, thank
42:22
Speaker 1: you for your life, thank you for your courage. I'm really, really,
42:28
Speaker 1: really grateful to be connected with you and to have
42:31
Speaker 1: read your books and to be reading your new book.
42:34
Speaker 1: Thank you, keep you connection. Let's keep it going. I
42:37
Speaker 1: would love that, and I will. I will see you
42:40
Speaker 1: in October. Yes, yes, I cannot wait. Uh. Elizabeth Lefser,
42:45
Speaker 1: We are so grateful for you coming on this show everyone.
42:48
Speaker 1: Her latest book, Astandra Speaks When Women Are the Storytellers,
42:52
Speaker 1: The Human Story Changes, is in stores right now, and
42:55
Speaker 1: as I have shared on this show so many times,
42:58
Speaker 1: I make this next book I mentioned required reading in
43:01
Speaker 1: a lot of the workshops that I teach um broken
43:05
Speaker 1: Open that to me is a mainstay for the spiritual
43:09
Speaker 1: journey and should be in everyone's sacred space and on
43:12
Speaker 1: everyone's shelf. So please connect to Elizabeth Lesser's work Omega.
43:17
Speaker 1: Go to the website they have Omega Institute has incredible,
43:21
Speaker 1: incredible courses on everything your heart could possibly desire to
43:25
Speaker 1: connect you to spirit. So I hope everyone gets a
43:28
Speaker 1: chance to check that out. And so much gratitude and
43:31
Speaker 1: love to you. Thank you, you too, thank you for
43:34
Speaker 1: having me. Wow, what a powerful episode. Huge gratitude to
43:40
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Lesser. I yeah, I'm a lover, guys, and so
43:46
Speaker 1: when I get a chance to be in conversation with
43:49
Speaker 1: people whose work has deeply touched me, I am like
43:52
Speaker 1: a river of love, just gushing. Um. So it felt
43:57
Speaker 1: really incredible to share this episode with such a powerful
44:01
Speaker 1: voice who has been in this space for so so
44:04
Speaker 1: many decades, lighting the way fearlessly. If you get a
44:08
Speaker 1: chance share this episode with a friend, I know there
44:10
Speaker 1: were a lot of notes, potentially a lot of aha
44:15
Speaker 1: moments um that may have come in. So really don't
44:18
Speaker 1: underestimate your power to be a force of light in
44:22
Speaker 1: the life of someone else. Our healing journey is not
44:25
Speaker 1: to be hoarded. It's far self and others. So if
44:28
Speaker 1: there's anyone you think this episode could resonate with, maybe
44:31
Speaker 1: even a parent figure who is accessing new pieces of
44:36
Speaker 1: themselves in this new time, or if it's a friend
44:40
Speaker 1: or a coworker, take a second, share it as a text,
44:44
Speaker 1: share it as an email. Um, and if you have
44:47
Speaker 1: the time, go ahead and head to our podcast page
44:51
Speaker 1: which is just an apple, or however you listen to
44:53
Speaker 1: your shows and give us a review five stars. Yes,
44:58
Speaker 1: and if you have the time, I'm I'm always so
45:01
Speaker 1: incredibly grateful and really moved to read all of the
45:05
Speaker 1: reviews that you take a moment to write, So thank
45:09
Speaker 1: you for those that have taken the time to do that.
45:11
Speaker 1: If you get a chance to do it today, huge
45:13
Speaker 1: thank you and we will be back next week. In
45:16
Speaker 1: the meantime, don't forget. You can always connect with me
45:19
Speaker 1: in meditation on the choper app. I lay daily meditation
45:23
Speaker 1: on that beautiful app there, so join me for meditations
45:26
Speaker 1: ranging from five to twenty minutes and hit me up
45:30
Speaker 1: on the gram at Debbie Brown, Big Love and I
45:32
Speaker 1: Must stay Hey. Find me on social let's connect at
45:37
Speaker 1: Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or go to my
45:40
Speaker 1: website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening to
45:44
Speaker 1: the show on Apple Podcasts, please please please don't forget
45:48
Speaker 1: to rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode to
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Speaker 1: a friend. Dropping Jim's is the production of I Heart
45:57
Speaker 1: Radio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Triple
46:00
Speaker 1: and Me Debbie Brown. For more podcasts from My heart Radio,
46:04
Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
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Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.