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Dating After Divorce: Finding Love Again Without Losing Yourself - Beyond The Apps · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Reflect, Reclaim, and Elibreak.
• 0:06
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• 0:09
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• 0:18
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• 0:35
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• 0:44
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• 0:57
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• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And now here we go with today's episode.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim, and Liberate, a podcast covering all things relationships, separation, and divorce.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: How to create healthy, happy, fulfilling relationships without sacrificing any part of yourself, supporting anyone feeling challenged in their relationship or marriage.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: These are confidential conversations for you if you're navigating separation, divorce, or reorganizing life afterwards.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Decide whether to stay or leave a relationship or marriage, divorce with less drama, and consciously choose what's next for you.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the World Tree people of the common nation, and pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to this week's episode of Reflect, Reclaim, and Liberate.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And today I'm pretty excited to welcome Megan Goulay, founder of Love With Me.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: She transformed her career from numbers to matters of the heart.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Originally a chartered accountant with extensive experience in corporate finance, Megan started Love With Me because she deeply understands the emotional journey of finding lasting love.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: She places a strong emphasis on supporting clients emotionally through the ups and downs of dating.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Megan's advice don't give up just because things feel hard.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: The most meaningful, ensuring love often comes after challenge.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Megan, welcome to the podcast.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Elliane.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell me a little bit about you and the experiences, maybe per personal and professional, that led you to this work?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the how and the why, really.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I was an accountant for 25 years.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I but I always had a feeling I wanted to do something different.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, so about 18 months ago I had a vision to really help people after having a conversation with a man in his 50s who was telling me about how he was going to a matchmaking agency and the process and how much it caught was costing him.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it took me back to my own experience in my 30s when I was single for the best part of seven years.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it took me, you know, a long time of doing lots of different things to meet my um now husband, and we've been together nine years now, but I really, you know, always sat with the feeling of really resonating when when single people want to connect and and find that what's out there doesn't really work for them.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I really thought, how can I bring matchmaking more mainstream and offer a different offering than what's currently out there to single people?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I workshopped the idea and eventually came up with the concept of love with me.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: It is matchmaking, but it is what I consider a different a different model than what's what's out there.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that that's deliberate because I want to offer something to singles that really is palatable to them to want to sign up and give me the opportunity to see if I can connect them.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh before we get into the actual model of Love with Me, which I do want to talk about.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Chartered accountant, corporate finance to matchmaker.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's a pretty striking pivot.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: What does your accounting brain bring to the work that maybe someone without that background might not?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: If anything, there might not be anything.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good question, and it is a it is a an interesting pivot.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like I think it's really, you know, in any business, and I think in in being an accountant and working in finance, you're still dealing with a lot of people, you're dealing with a lot of personalities.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I worked in lots of different businesses over, you know, 25 odd years.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um at one point I was an auditor, so I I really um had a lot of interest in understanding what what people are about, what makes them tick, and really just getting to know people in different environments.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing I did learn in the corporate world is that a lot of people have a story and what's going on behind the scenes, and they didn't often they don't often present in the corporate world with what's really going on because everyone puts on this professional face.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: So what I what always intrigued me was you know getting to know people and digging a little bit deeper.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really think my skills of just dealing with a lot of people, dealing with a lot of um managing teams and um, you know, just that that privacy and the professionalism that comes with being an accountant and being given getting that trust element, I think that's trust is probably the biggest thing that people then can say.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Look, I have had a prior career that is built on a high level of trust.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to love and relationships, this business is on is based on a high level of trust and vulnerability that clients are giving me, and and I'm privileged to take that on.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's probably hopefully something give people confidence in that.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do respect and appreciate people's privacy and the privilege that they do when they come and work with me.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a pretty vulnerable share, isn't it, stepping into a matchmaking space.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about matchmaking and the love with me model specifically, because I think a lot of people have preconceived ideas about what matchmaking is, or maybe just don't have any idea.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So can you work through, walk us through, sorry, how it works at Love With Me?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Matchmaking is very big in the UK, USA, and in India.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: There are lots of matchmakers and it's a much more, I think, understood process.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's typically targeted at a at a demographic though.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Matchmaking, there are some matchmaking agencies in Australia, but for me, when I've been out and about, a lot of people actually have never come across a matchmaker, it's never crossed their mind.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: So part of my bringing love with me to Victorians, um, because I'm only operating in Victoria at the moment, was to bring matchmaking so that people think when I'm single, this is a viable alternative to the dating apps.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And look, I simply get a brief from a client after meeting with them.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: They give me all the information that I need about them and what they're looking for, and we get photos, and I basically network on their behalf.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you're single, you're very obvious typically people are time poor to be able to go out there and go to different single events um each week or even spend time, you know, going through dating apps.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was all very time consuming, and you might only be tapping into a very small percentage of the total single people out there because not everyone's on the dating apps all the time.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not everybody has time to go to that single event.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, what I want to do is really be, you know, a central point to connect with as many single people as I can who are out there and who are open to a relationship, and it's simply just introducing them to someone else outside their network.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like networking, but I'm doing it on your behalf.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: I really like your model.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: So let's but let's talk dating apps, right?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because many of our listeners will need no convincing that dating apps can be soul destroying.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, many of them have either lived it personally or heard the horror stories from friends.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I know you, Megan, make a case that for some people they're not just a grim, demoralizing sort of experience, they're actually the wrong tool completely.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So can you speak to that?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I firstly I say, look, dating apps have their place, and there are lots of success stories out there from people who've met on dating apps.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think dating apps have a place.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think that um, though, that there's a lot of people out there who um simply fall through the cracks on them.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And there's probably a couple of components in that.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: The first one I I see in my space since I've started this business is we live in a world whether whether we like it or not, that people judge people based on first impressions.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And on a dating app, that's photos, right?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: People uh judging people based on a on a photo, which is a still image in in time.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one thing I've learned from doing this business is that if you don't have the best versions of yourself, and you can go out and you can take 200 photos, and you might only get 10 that have you at the right angle, like beautiful smile, beautiful lighting that present you in the best way.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have noticed when I ask my clients to send me, you know, a snapshot of photos that a lot of them aren't the best version of what I've seen when I've met them in person.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: I meet all my clients in person so I can get their energy, and that then does not often portray in the photos that people are using.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So people are maybe using the tool without the best version of themselves on it.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also a place where a lot of people are using it for, you know, entertainment.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of there's no real barriers to entry.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: You can be on there, you can be in your lounge, you can be anybody on the app.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for some people, um, there's no rhyme or reason, but they simply the apps just don't work for them.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I think people should still try them.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think you should try everything when you're single to put yourself out there because you don't know what what avenue is.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I do know that for a lot of people, and I I was one of them, like that, you know, I was on the apps for years, I get it.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's a surface level judgment point where people decide whether they want to connect on the apps, and people are missing out on great opportunities because they might be judging someone based on a bad photo or just a flippant, flippant decision point in time.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So people who otherwise would be great great connectors are simply missing opportunities based on the way that the the algorithms and what the apps are designed to just make smart or just quick decisions um without any substance.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And they're also designed to, from my research, to actually keep you on them rather than actually create a connection that means you're not giving the apps any more business, right?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes an entertainment, it's an entertainment tool, really.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's why it's designed to just that swipey swipy thing.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not actually stop and reading a profile, it's just a oh, I'm I'm bored, I'll I'll swipe for 10 or 15 minutes.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's you know, it's it's hitting that kind of, you know, I guess that dopamine hit as well.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's designed to give you a kick out of just you know filling it, filling that void like playing a video game almost.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Which leads me to the next question I want to ask you, and that is why do you believe that matchmaking is particularly well suited to someone who's coming out of a marriage or a long-term relationship?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: What's different about where they are and how does matchmaking support them?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Look, I think anyone who's come out of a of any relationship and a particularly a long-term relationship, and potentially one that has children and a family unit involved, you know, I think as a human, there's going to be those feelings of potentially failure, feeling I'm not good enough, feeling like um, you know, what's wrong with me?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm, you know, I'm not pretty enough, I'm not skinny enough, I'm not all these things, right?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of self-worth and you know, questioning, questioning that.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like if you're going onto a dating app which is designed to judge people based on a superficial first impression, it takes a lot, you know, the most confident person is going to have some erosion of self-worth if you're on the dating apps for a long time and they're not working for you straight up.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think while you're already coming out of a vulnerable situation where you're questioning a lot about who you are and your life and where you're going, you're putting yourself in a in a place where you're, you know, there's there's all there's rejection on a dating app because every time someone swipes no, that's ri in some level rejection.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think in in my process, it really is working with the client.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I work with both sides so I can talk to both both parties, sense where they're at, and help them set them up for success when it comes to that first date and dating.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, going out on a first date is probably nerve-wracking for a lot of people who've not maybe dated for 10 or 15 years.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And part of my process is supporting people with that.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I talk to them before the date, I talk to them after the date, we get feedback, um, and it's really supporting them when they're coming from a place where their the dating landscape may have changed significantly from when they were last in it.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And for some people who, you know, found a relationship in their 20s or 30s, you know, they may have met through friends, they may never have had to deal with dating apps or going to single events or anything like that, and it might not be very appealing to them.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to create something that is really one-on-one introductions to remove a lot of those feelings of having to go to a single event or having to be on the apps, giving people an viable alternative offering that is private and supportive.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, particularly people who've come out of relationships and there might be kids involved.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you're on a dating app, it's very public.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: People are going to know you're on an app.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people don't like that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: They don't like the fact that their ex-partner may find out or their kids, and you know, people deserve to have that level of privacy as well when they're wanting to repartner.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um You spoke when you answered that question about supporting sort of practically before and after, but I know also, and it says in your uh as I introduced you in your bio that you support clients emotionally.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like on a practical kind of level?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Look, I think if you're using a dating app or you're going to a single event, you're on your own, right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have anybody there giving you a pep talk or giving you some advice, um, and particularly people who are re-entering the dating space and going out on dates, you don't have anyone, you know, to give you give you that independent support.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes family and friends may give you advice, but they might not have been in the dating world for a while either.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, with all best intentions, sometimes your friends and family may not be the most independent voice.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, you know, I live and breathe dating and introducing people and working with clients who are looking to partner and therefore it's just an independent voice who's really ultimate objective is to help you get into a relationship and set you up for that success.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that involves hard conversations, sometimes that involves feedback that you know a client may not like to hear.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: But my ultimate objective is really to help people get into a relationship, and sometimes people need, you know, some sub some some advice and some you know tips to to do that.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And sorry, and I was gonna say, and then you know, if there is that deeper level of um emotional support, I have a really wonderful supportive network of coaches and counsellors and people that I would suggest to a client maybe there's some unpacking of our backpack of life on there that we need to do because the last thing you want to be doing is going on a first date and not being able to have the tools and strategies to get through that first date without you know that backpack of life weighing us down.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um so while I I do support them and it's more around the logistics of the dating, if I do feel like a client, you know, after talking to me and o taking that first step, there are lots of wonderful people out there who can support people, you know, holistically with their dating if we need to unpack pack some things in this process.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we um we sometimes don't even realise ourselves how much we're carrying in that backpack, right?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So and there is nothing like dating or stepping into a new relationship to bring all of that to the surface.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we all what I you know, I love the expression backpack of life because we all have one.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody, you know, you by the time you're 40, 50, 60, whatever age you're at, you've you've had things happen to you in life that you carry with you.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's about learning how how I can best sit with those within me.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, then when you're going and meeting someone who also has a backpack of life, it's two humans who then have to work out how do we live with each other's backpacks in a you know, a harmonious way.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And they're the tools that um you know you you need to sometimes bounce off somebody and and and be able to have that that voice that you don't get from a dating app, you don't get if you're out and about there on your own.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's just you know, somebody else's opinion who works in that space that can maybe guide you and give you some advice that you wouldn't otherwise get from the other tools out there.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And also, as you said, someone who's one step removed, not your best friend, not your mum, not your sister.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's the same with my work, my clients, you know, they'll get that support and that uh advice.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: I put advice in inverted questions there because it's not always helpful.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's similar, similar thick thing with your clients too.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's good to have that emotional but objective emotional support person or people steering you.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of backpacks of life, what what is is the most common pattern you see and I'm thinking here patterns with regard to people getting in their own way, or is there a thing or things that you see show up again and again?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the thing when we we're re-entering the dating space and we're meeting someone for the first time, we have to remember that I think some people want to rock up and go, I'm just gonna be mean, I'm gonna talk about all the topics of everything that's happened to me in my life, and if that person doesn't like it, well, too bad.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is we live in a world where you know everybody's got things that have happened to them in life, and when you're trying to find a connection with a new person, we really just want to enter that space initially in a positive way and not bring those initial heavy topics to those initial stages of dating.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: My and my advice to my clients is that in those initial stages of dating, we want to keep it positive and fun and just really get to know the person based on where they're at in their life now.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: The things they like to do on the weekend, what are their interests, what are their hobbies, what are the things, what holidays would like they like to take?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: All nice, light, positive topics while we're getting to see what someone's values are like, how do they make you feel when you're out for coffee with them in those early stages?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you just simply sit there and enjoy their company and then be look f and look forward to seeing them again?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's as light as it should be in the early stages of dating.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: All the serious topics and the logistics and where you're gonna live and how you're gonna live and finances and all that sort of stuff can come later down the track.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I see initially people, you know, come to me and they're like on the first date, oh my goodness, I'm you know, I live here and he lives here and I like my house like this, and I'm like all of those things when you find a connection with someone will resolve themselves down the track.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to bring them to the first date.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that is my biggest, you know, hurdle of advising clients is that on the first date, keep it light and fun.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: All of the stuff will will resolve itself because ultimately as humans we want to find a connection and that connection comes at a at a values level, a lifestyle compatibility.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Do we enjoy the same things?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do we both want to travel?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: If those values and those lifestyle things don't align, then all the other stuff doesn't really matter anyway.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: But if we bring it to a first date, we're immediately putting the other person under probably extra strain and stress about worrying about a whole bunch of stuff that shouldn't be brought up at that date.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: So my biggest piece of advice for my clients is, you know, don't do yourself a disservice while you're in those early stages of getting to know someone, because that person, you know, might be the right person for you and all of those things will resolve.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: But if we talk about too much in the early stages, it can put the other person off and it can be a major turn-off if people come to the date and want to talk about all these really heavy topics.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, perhaps don't bring that entire backpack of life and upend it on the coffee table between on your first date.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I also like the fact that you said, um, how do you feel when you're on a date with this person?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's something that I talk about with my clients who are, you know, heading out into dating world after a, you know, how does my nervous system feel during and after a Spending time with this person?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, am I it's one thing to be nervous but nervous excited, it's another thing to be really activated and on edge.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And is that is that your internal fight-flight system, you know, fight-flight system being activated because of past experience, or is it being activated because of present experience?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that you talk about with your clients?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: I share I share a story because I was single for about seven years, I went on a lot of dates and did a lot of things to meet someone.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And people who've been single for a long time will know that the years roll by, Christmases roll by, and you're still single, and you're out and about, and you are going on dates, and you're thinking, you know, what's wrong with me?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Why am why am I not finding my person?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember I was dating a a guy for a while and he ticked all the boxes on paper.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was, you know, ticked all the boxes.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: But for whatever reason it was, it I wasn't feeling it in my heart and in my in my soul.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like it wasn't, it just didn't feel right.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't understand why, and it really kind of pained me as well, because I'm like, here, I've been single for all these years, I've got this guy who ticks all the boxes on paper.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: I actually enjoy his company, but there was that feeling there that just I couldn't put my finger on it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I knew that no, this person wasn't the right person for me.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I say to my clients because when I did meet the right person for me, someone who my husband now have been for nine years, those feelings weren't there.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was just, it felt right.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it just, you know, he didn't tick all the boxes, he lived ages away from me.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, but when you find that connection with someone, it just sits and it feels right, and you know that you don't really need to question it.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: And all the logistical things and all the things will figure themselves out in due course, but ultimately the connection is there and you know it's right.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, I think just you really and that's one of the things is I always say to the them after the first date, I say, Well, how did you feel?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you want to see him again?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because really any not that's the biggest question that you need to ask yourself because everything else will will resolve it, resolve itself.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's basically going with your gut instinct about how you feel is the most important driver, I think, in the early stages of dating.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: One thing that I want to flag there with you is um trusting your gut instinct, because I think what I feel what I find with a lot of my clients, particularly female clients, is they've learned they've been trained out of and conditioned out of trusting that instinct.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm wondering whether you see that too in your clients, particularly female women.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, look, I think, you know, I think there's a lot of competing things in life because you may want to re-partner, you've got a lot of other things probably going on, going on for you as as well.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't proclaim to say it's it's easy um to repartner or it's easy to figure out, is this the person is this the right person for me or am I making the right decision?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, you know, we don't know, and sometimes it pains us to make a decision that we think, oh, is this the right one for me?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: And particularly if you're in in the space of relationships, it's sometimes it's not it's not clear cut, but I think sometimes you just make a decision and and try, yeah.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest thing is is your gut instincts, and sometimes we can't put them into words and explain them, but you know when a relationship feels right.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know when someone around you, you feel comfortable around someone and they make you feel feel comfortable.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and if there I I always say if there's any other feelings out there, then you may not be able to explain it well or put it down to something, but those feelings are probably guiding you in the right direction, and sometimes you just have to go with them, even though you really can't explain it.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, listen to your gut rather than try and wrangle through it with your head.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Megan, your message is essentially don't give up.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: But for a lot of clients that I see, a lot of clients that we're talking about, staying too long is already part of their story.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you support those clients to perhaps reframe perseverance when it's something they may well have done way too much of in the past, in past relationships?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Or is that outside your scope?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Look, I think, you know, in my experience and my observations is that, you know, two people come into a relationship at whatever point that is as two different humans, and the backpack of life when you're meeting someone in their 20s or 30s is probably fairly light.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when we're starting out, a few things may have happened to us, but it's pretty light.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: But as the decades go on and we get older, um, you know, it becomes heavier.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a big theme I see is that people who have met someone in their 20s and 30s, I see a huge trend by the time people are 40s or their 50s that they have a second chapter relationship.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: I find that, you know, there's a big cohort of people out there who have an early stage relationship and a later second chapter relationship.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's because in by the time, you know, women and men, and I see it prominently more so in women, that by the time they're 40 or 50, they're a very different person than they were in their 20s.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if you've found a relationship and you may have typically had children with someone who you met in your 20s or early 30s, by the time you get to 40s and 50s, that may be a you may have grown in a very different direction and that person may no longer be someone who you can see yourself living that second chapter of your life, particularly as the children grow up.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that, you know, I don't think giving up then is, you know, the wrong thing to like the wrong thing to do.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we have to acknowledge that we live in a world where people do end up often in two big relationships in life, and there might be more, and it doesn't and not everyone fits in this same model, but I do see a theme that people do have that second chapter.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people are better off when they make that call if that's the right fit right choice for them, that that person that they may have married in their 20s or 30s is no longer the person that they feel like they want to live those retirement years or that second chapter of life with.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's okay.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's a failure.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I see that it's very common out there, and I think people find someone more suited for them to live, you know, it could be 20, 20, 30 years with another with another partner, um that I think it's that's sometimes the right choice.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um I always think, you know, it's it it's always sad when a relationship does end, but I see that there's a lot of happy couples out there who have gone through that that relationship breakdown, repartnered and find themselves repartnering someone with someone who's probably more suited to them.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And both parties can repartner and live their life, I guess, in that second chapter with someone who may be more suitable.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I don't think that it's necessarily about you know, persevering to to the end.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's about recognizing if that relationship is you know, you've given it your best shot, but simply it's just two people who've grown in fundamental years, 20 to 40 or 50, you're a very different person.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's okay.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's not easy and it's very, you know, um hard for people to go through, but I think when you come out the other side and eventually you repartner, you may look back and go, Yeah, I I've re we've both maybe repartnered and we now have someone who we will be more happier and content with and harmoniously hopefully hopefully live in that kind of blended, you know, family arrangement.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um Yeah, all the all the lovely mess that comes with yeah, that's right.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Even third chapter relationships.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me what is next for you, Megan, and Love With Me?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: So Love With Me in Victoria is relatively new.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: So at the moment, my biggest objective is wanting to be able to help as many single people as I can over the coming years.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not an overnight solution and I'm very honest with people.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, having a chat with me incurs no obligation.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Simply giving me a brief and seeing what I can do costs you nothing.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: It gives me the opportunity to see what I can deliver on you.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: My model is different to other matchmaking agencies.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: If people have explored matchmaking in the past, come and have a chat with me.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: My model is very different.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm client-focused.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: My ultimate objective is to, you know, help clients get into a relationship.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that is my primary objective.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so really just word of mouth, if everybody out there can talk to um, you know, anyone that they know is single about love with me, it helps people connect, it helps grow my network and helps people ultimately have the best opportunity to find that person who's currently not in their social circle, not at that event that they're at, or not on the apps at the same time as them.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And people do want to connect.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they you know, we're we're wired to connect, we want to connect, and I think I want to give people um the best opportunity to do that in a different way.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And look, finding men as well, men typically don't talk about dating as much as women.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, how can we open up the conversations with men?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of my biggest objectives is giving men the opportunity to say, here's an alternative.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: They may not like the apps, they may not feel confident going to events, but coming, having a chat to me, I promise I'm not scary, I'm very warm and supportive.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so hopefully people will will warm to that, and particularly men, and give me the opportunity to see if I can support them and introduce them to people.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's as simple as simple as that.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, and thank you for this conversation.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: I've really enjoyed learning a little bit more about Love With Me and you.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Megan, where can the listeners find and connect with you?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so my website's the best place to jump on.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to reach out to me for a chat, um lovewithme.com.au and also my Instagram, love with me underscore dating, follow me on my Instagram at I share a lot of stuff of what I'm doing and um, you know, some stories and stuff on that.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the best place.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and obviously, you know, this podcast um people can will be able to access.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, just mention love with me to a friend.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: You never know who you may help.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the more people that know about Love With Me and follow me, um, you know, it will ultimately help connect um people who genuinely deserve the opportunity to find love again.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: I will drop links to your website and your Instagram in the show notes.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, listeners, you can just scroll down and find how to connect with Megan and maybe have a chat with her.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: She's not scary, I promise.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing this conversation with me, Megan.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's been fantastic.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you so much, Sally Anne.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And look, I appreciate the work that you do in your space as well.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, as humans, life is not easy and relationships are not easy.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so to be able to, you know, work together with other like-minded partners is is valuable for everybody, and ultimately everyone deserves the opportunity to, you know, set their life maybe in a different direction than when they're where they're sitting right now.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I think you and I both ultimately want to do for our clients is give give everybody the opportunity to reset and and redirect in a way that ultimately will make them happy.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and that's why this podcast is called what it is, Reflect, Reclaim, and Liberate.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for the conversation, Megan.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's been fabulous.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, divorce coach and strategist, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim, and Liberate.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love or benefit from listening to this episode, please share it with them.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'd also be so grateful if you would follow and review the podcast so we can get in the ears of a whole lot more people just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you'll join me next week for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim, and Liberate.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Until then.