Latest / Voices for Voices® / Fighting the System: How One Mom's Battle is Revealing Child Trafficking in Family Courts | Episode 236

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Fighting the System: How One Mom's Battle is Revealing Child Trafficking in Family Courts | Episode 236 · Voices for Voices®

• 0:03
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Welcome to this episode of the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast.
• 0:07
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: I am your host, founder and executive director of Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes.
• 0:13
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Thank you so much for joining us on this episode, as well as our over 230 other episodes in our catalog.
• 0:20
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: If you're able to like, subscribe all those things.
• 0:24
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: They're free.
• 0:25
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: So we would appreciate that and we appreciate each and every one watching, listening, whether this is your first episode.
• 0:33
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: If this is your first episode, you're going to want to go to the prior episode to catch part one of our conversation with our guests on this episode, or if you've been with us from the beginning or if you've shared screenshots.
• 0:50
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: We appreciate, however, we're able to get the word out and really comes in line with our guests.
• 1:00
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Again, this is part two.
• 1:02
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Check out part one as well.
• 1:04
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: With her Very interesting, really from an early age experiences that she was experiencing as a child and as she was growing up with the family and with her relationship that ended with divorce and really finding her way to be a voice to share her experiences, to help others.
• 1:56
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And it doesn't hurt to obviously catch the attention of somebody like Christy Brinkley of somebody like Christy Brinkley, who's an actress and supermodel who has said about our guest, tina Swithin, and her One Mom's Battle movement, quote you no longer need to go through the ordeal of divorcing a narcissist alone Through this battle.
• 2:22
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Tina Swithin is a beacon of clarity.
• 2:25
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: You will realize that you're not alone, you're not crazy and someday you will start to whisper.
• 2:32
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Thank you to the darkness, Thank you to the pain, the fear, the struggle, even thank you to the narcissist, because in the darkness you will find light.
• 2:44
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Never knew.
• 2:45
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: You had inside your heart strength you never imagined.
• 2:49
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: End quote.
• 2:50
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: So, without further ado, I'm going to introduce our guest joining us from California, and that is Tina Swithin.
• 2:59
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Thank you for joining us on this episode as well as the first part, absolutely.
• 3:04
  Tina Swithin: Happy to first part.
• 3:04
  Tina Swithin: Absolutely Happy to be here.
• 3:07
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Great.
• 3:08
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: So social media it's a huge way of communicating with individuals across the world and in some ways, a lot of ways, it's been very helpful to reach people we never would have been able to 20, 30 years ago.
• 3:29
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: We'd have to do kind of the old-fashioned way of writing letters and smoke signals yeah and hoping somebody caught it and wanted to help share it.
• 3:39
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: So she mentioned that.
• 3:41
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: You know she has this, what feels like a megaphone with the messages that she shares with her movement.
• 3:49
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: So if we could maybe pick up the conversation and kind of end of the divorce and then get into what won Mom's Battle, how that started, and then we'll get into the current state and how that will obviously continue.
• 4:10
  Tina Swithin: Yeah, you know I went into when, when my marriage came to an end, I went into the divorce.
• 4:17
  Tina Swithin: You know, by nature I am very hopeful, optimistic person and I like to see the best in people and things and situations.
• 4:27
  Tina Swithin: You know I went into the whole process very naive.
• 4:31
  Tina Swithin: I believed that he there was a part of me, huge part of me didn't really understand who I was up against, because the mask had not completely fallen at that point.
• 4:44
  Tina Swithin: And you know, you truly do see who someone is during times of conflict.
• 4:50
  Tina Swithin: The first eight months of our separation I was still under his control.
• 4:57
  Tina Swithin: Now I can see that very clearly.
• 5:00
  Tina Swithin: It was my goal to keep things as stable for my daughters as possible.
• 5:05
  Tina Swithin: They were two and four years old.
• 5:07
  Tina Swithin: I had proposed a nesting agreement where we shared the same house.
• 5:11
  Tina Swithin: He was gone, working Monday through Friday.
• 5:14
  Tina Swithin: He would come home Friday night.
• 5:16
  Tina Swithin: I would leave.
• 5:16
  Tina Swithin: I was couch surfing on my friend's houses, my sister's house, wherever, on the weekends, because at least I knew my kids would be in their own beds.
• 5:27
  Tina Swithin: I would much rather me bounce back and forth than put my little girls through that.
• 5:33
  Tina Swithin: So you know, and there was a part of me that not recognizing how dangerous he was.
• 5:38
  Tina Swithin: I was just thinking he's going to have to step up to the plate, he's going to have to be a parent.
• 5:45
  Tina Swithin: And true, because it was one of the biggest fights during our whole marriage was why don't you connect with these little girls, why don't you have a bond with them, why don't you spend time with them?
• 5:56
  Tina Swithin: And he just wouldn't.
• 5:58
  Tina Swithin: I now recognize he's not capable of that, and so you know that the beginning I was just very hopeful that we would be able to co-parent.
• 6:10
  Tina Swithin: That you know.
• 6:11
  Tina Swithin: I didn't envision us being the people to even go into family court.
• 6:15
  Tina Swithin: I thought we could mediate, we could figure this out, and we were for quite a while, because he loved the arrangement where he knew everything I was doing.
• 6:27
  Tina Swithin: He had control still over the finances.
• 6:30
  Tina Swithin: The one thing he kept I recognize as power and control is I have a very rare health diagnosis and I was dependent on health insurance to keep my I do monthly IV infusions, and so he carried all of the power there and whenever I would step out of line in his eyes, he would threaten that he was going to take away my health insurance.
• 6:58
  Tina Swithin: So I was complying, complying, and then some things caused me and I started to really find my voice and that became a threat.
• 7:09
  Tina Swithin: So one day I went to see my sister for the weekend, about four hours away from where I live, and what I didn't know at the time is that he had moving vans waiting down the street and so almost as soon as I pulled out of the driveway to leave, he came in and completely took everything, I mean down to the photos of my kids off the walls, videos of my kids, you know, the material things, whatever it can be replaced.
• 7:40
  Tina Swithin: But there are things that you know.
• 7:42
  Tina Swithin: He knew that I cherished and he took everything and that's really how our divorce started off.
• 7:50
  Tina Swithin: As soon as he felt like he was losing control, it became, you know, something I didn't even know was possible.
• 7:58
  Tina Swithin: It was World War III.
• 7:59
  Tina Swithin: It was a category five divorce hurricane.
• 8:02
  Tina Swithin: I ended up within a few weeks of that in the women's shelter with my little girls and afraid for my life, because he wasn't the type that was going to hit me.
• 8:14
  Tina Swithin: But I could see this really scary dark rage in his eyes and I knew what a threat I was to his image in our community and that he was losing everything.
• 8:27
  Tina Swithin: He, you know, had financially had to file bankruptcy because all of his financial schemes had caught up with him and he was in a downward spiral.
• 8:38
  Tina Swithin: That terrified me and I truly did believe that he was capable of taking my life.
• 8:43
  Tina Swithin: And I truly did believe that he was capable of taking my life and so I fled to the women's shelter and I didn't have enough money to hire an attorney, so I had to.
• 8:59
  Tina Swithin: You know somebody who's conflict avoidant by nature, going to the family court system and having to act as their own attorney by far the most challenging thing I've ever done in my life, you know, just trying to navigate the different court forms and what I'm supposed to submit, how many copies I'm supposed to make, how I'm supposed to serve these things to people.
• 9:17
  Tina Swithin: So overwhelming and such a dark, humbling time in my life.
• 9:22
  Tina Swithin: And I quickly learned that the court system is not there to act in the best interest of kids.
• 9:31
  Tina Swithin: When that first day, when I walked in, I had a false sense of hope and confidence that all I do is I tell them the truth, I tell them what's happening, that I'm in this women's shelter, I'm afraid for my life, my children are not safe and and what I was met with was a judge who basically said you're both crazy If this, if you're starting your divorce off at this level of conflict, you know you're, you're both crazy.
• 10:00
  Tina Swithin: And I just remember thinking this is the twilight zone.
• 10:04
  Tina Swithin: I don't, I feel like I'm in an alternate reality, this can't be happening.
• 10:09
  Tina Swithin: And and so I quickly learned it was, you know, just being thrust straight into it that it was a huge wake up call.
• 10:19
  Tina Swithin: And I remember it was about a year into the divorce when I was desperately begging the court to protect my kids, and the judge looked at me and said you not only chose to marry this guy, you went on to have two kids with him.
• 10:36
  Tina Swithin: He can't be that bad.
• 10:37
  Tina Swithin: And I just remember thinking like I you know, talk about victim blaming.
• 10:44
  Tina Swithin: But then, on the other hand, I thought, well, I'm glad I know that that's his mentality, because at least I can adjust in the midst of all of this trauma.
• 10:55
  Tina Swithin: You know, shift course and and start operating with that in mind.
• 11:01
  Tina Swithin: That that is how this judge is viewing our case.
• 11:05
  Tina Swithin: And I've come to find out that's the reality of most judges.
• 11:09
  Tina Swithin: So, yeah, I, we were in court 13 times in one year alone.
• 11:14
  Tina Swithin: My mentality was I'm going to keep putting everything in front of the court, every time my kids are in danger.
• 11:22
  Tina Swithin: Because I need to go to sleep tonight and put my head on that pillow, knowing I've done everything that I can to protect them.
• 11:30
  Tina Swithin: And if something happens to these kids, that's on these people.
• 11:34
  Tina Swithin: You know these people.
• 11:36
  Tina Swithin: I am at least needing to do my part.
• 11:39
  Tina Swithin: So I became an expert at documenting.
• 11:42
  Tina Swithin: You know, I had a police officer friend.
• 11:45
  Tina Swithin: She gave me advice in the very beginning document everything and document more.
• 11:49
  Tina Swithin: And I didn't even know what that meant At that point.
• 11:52
  Tina Swithin: Now I am the.
• 11:54
  Tina Swithin: You know.
• 11:54
  Tina Swithin: I teach other people to how to document because it was such a critical component in me eventually protecting my kids.
• 12:02
  Tina Swithin: But for me it was about the two year mark where I just thought I don't understand this.
• 12:11
  Tina Swithin: I don't understand why these people are supposed to be acting in the best interest of kids.
• 12:18
  Tina Swithin: Yet every time I put my little girls in that car on a Friday night, I don't know if I'm ever going to see them again.
• 12:25
  Tina Swithin: I thought he was in such a dark place that he would drive them over a cliff and because he knew they were the number one way to hurt me and to maintain power and control.
• 12:36
  Tina Swithin: And um it was.
• 12:38
  Tina Swithin: It was terrifying.
• 12:39
  Tina Swithin: So one day I had a break from work.
• 12:42
  Tina Swithin: I was working three jobs plus acting as my own attorney.
• 12:45
  Tina Swithin: I had a break and, being a full-time mom, I went and sat in the courtroom.
• 12:51
  Tina Swithin: I had a break from work, I just went and plopped myself down and I remember the judge looking at me and saying he knew me so well by that point.
• 12:58
  Tina Swithin: He said Swithin, why are you here today?
• 13:01
  Tina Swithin: You're not on calendar.
• 13:02
  Tina Swithin: And I said your honor, I am just here to observe.
• 13:06
  Tina Swithin: And that day changed my life because I was able to see things through a different lens, that to the court these were just business transactions and to me it's emotional these are my babies but that I needed to shift how I was presenting things.
• 13:25
  Tina Swithin: I started going to sit in the court on a regular basis.
• 13:28
  Tina Swithin: I started studying the system, studying other cases that you know resembled mine.
• 13:35
  Tina Swithin: And then one day I decided to start a blog around that two-year mark and I called it one mom's battle because, no, there was nothing.
• 13:47
  Tina Swithin: I could Google for hours and I couldn't find a single person talking about this topic.
• 13:53
  Tina Swithin: So I started the conversation originally just for my friends and family to follow along, not knowing that anyone else was out there and about six months after, at this point, knowing what we know.
• 14:08
  Tina Swithin: But I never watched TV, so the fact that it was on was really weird, the fact that it happened to be this episode.
• 14:28
  Tina Swithin: I didn't know who she was, but I heard him continuing to almost berate her and say why can't the two of you she was going through a divorce with Peter Cook why can't the two of you put your differences aside and get along for the sake of the kids?
• 14:44
  Tina Swithin: And I remember turning to the TV and just staring at it in disbelief and her choking up and starting to cry and say Google the term divorcing a narcissist.
• 14:56
  Tina Swithin: And that was really all she could get out because she was so shell shocked and traumatized by what he was doing.
• 15:04
  Tina Swithin: And I couldn't believe it because the subtitle of my blog was divorcing a narcissist.
• 15:11
  Tina Swithin: So overnight my blog had 40,000 hits and I quickly discovered I was not alone and that there were people all over the world walking through this same nightmare.
• 15:25
  Tina Swithin: Within a few days of that, christy started sharing my blog on social media, letting people know that she followed what I was doing and that it would help them to make sense of their own journey.
• 15:38
  Tina Swithin: And then, within a week of that, her assistant reached out to me, invited me down to Los Angeles to meet with her.
• 15:45
  Tina Swithin: She was doing the Broadway production of Chicago and playing Roxy Hart, and so I went down to Los Angeles, I got to meet Christy backstage and the rest is history.
• 16:00
  Tina Swithin: She has really become, you know, sharing the work I do, um I, when I wrote my first book, she shared it with her community and you know she has really helped me in the background to create the platform and the community that a lot of people refer to as a lifeline.
• 16:22
  Tina Swithin: In my own custody case, it took six years for me to protect my kids Two custody evaluations, minors counsel, dozens of police interactions, cps investigations and my kids were failed so many times in so many ways.
• 16:42
  Tina Swithin: They finally the court finally got it.
• 16:45
  Tina Swithin: But you know, I think I'm one of the lucky ones.
• 16:49
  Tina Swithin: Most people aren't able to successfully protect their kids in this system.
• 16:54
  Tina Swithin: And when I think back to what I went through as a child, you know and I struggle with the word resilience because I, you know it's a word that I have a mixed relationship and feelings about or with, because kids shouldn't have to be resilient you know we're as a society, we need to be protecting our kids and treating them with care and love, um, but what I went through as a child, I do believe, gave me a voice, made me an advocate.
• 17:26
  Tina Swithin: Um, instilled in me that we don't give up and I'm a fighter, and um, so, you know, I I was able to protect my kids and I will never take that for granted.
• 17:39
  Tina Swithin: I also think, had they listened to me on day one, my kids would have been spared six years of trauma, because, the thing is, my story never changed.
• 17:51
  Tina Swithin: It was the same on day one as it was, you know, six years into it, it was the same on day one as it was, you know, six years into it.
• 18:00
  Tina Swithin: And so, you know, my kids went through things and experienced abuse that they should have been protected from, and so that fuels me to do the work I do today and, to you know, give kids a voice.
• 18:13
  Tina Swithin: I have teenagers from all around the world reach out to me on a regular basis and share their stories and ask me to amplify their voices, because no one's hearing them and no one's protecting them, and the system is failing them.
• 18:33
  Tina Swithin: This community, this platform over a period of, I think it's been about 13 years now and we have chapters all over the world and we do our best to shine a spotlight on the darkness of the family court system, because my case is not unique and I feel that the court system has progressively gotten worse year after year.
• 19:01
  Tina Swithin: You've got a lot of people who have.
• 19:03
  Tina Swithin: You know it's almost like a multi-level marketing scheme that has taken shape in the family court system, with people who are profiting tens of thousands of dollars off of keeping litigation alive and adding fuel to it.
• 19:23
  Tina Swithin: You know they aren't in there trying to like, really have people come to an agreement or to truly act in the best interest of children, because that stops the money flow.
• 19:33
  Tina Swithin: And so I am, you know, until for as long as I'm doing this work, I'm going to hold a megaphone and a really bright spotlight and expose what is happening, because it you know it's child trafficking, a lot of what we see happening in family court.
• 19:52
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: It's, it's evil evil, it really is.
• 20:03
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And you just mentioned the child trafficking and you talk about reunification camps.
• 20:06
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: There's all kinds of stories and experiences.
• 20:09
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: We had a guest on prior who basically taken from church by the pastor saying that the dad was no longer living and the mom was there and they took her son saying that she was abusing him, was abusing him and the pastor and it doesn't have to be a pastor, but just in this instance, in the town that they live in, everybody from the police, investigators, go to the one church and they wouldn't, they wouldn't do anything Cause they're like oh no, that's my pastor.
• 21:01
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: You know, we're going to believe the pastor, not you know some, somebody else and and that individual.
• 21:09
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Luckily he, he was able to escape and get away, but there were many other children that that he had saw and it was just terrifying to to know that certain people in certain areas they have the power and people like you and me, just kind of average people that, like you said, you had to.
• 21:34
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: You won't go through six years of a battle and if you would have quit or stopped at any point, the courts wouldn't have really, they probably wouldn't have cared, they would have just went on with business as usual.
• 21:54
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: When you're passionate, and when you're talking about kids especially, you're not going to stop trying and fighting until we're either not living or until something actually happens positive and I think that's a very important lesson and thought from your experience.
• 22:20
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And you're still probably going through trauma and flashback at different times and your daughter it's know, look back at situations and it's like you said, if on day one, then you know, six years later you know your daughters and yourself and you don't have to spend all this time and energy trying to figure out, ok, how do I do this the right way and how to you know?
• 22:55
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Those are like attorneys and with us especially myself not being an attorney you're just trying to learn and do as much as you can and that really fuels the work that we do and especially what work you do.
• 23:13
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And I was going to ask you like what gets you up in the morning and keeps you doing the work that you do?
• 23:17
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And I was going to ask you like what gets you up in the morning and keeps you doing the work that you do?
• 23:20
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: But I and you can, you can answer that.
• 23:22
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: But having that, that passion and fuel and being through those experiences and now, knowing that you're not alone, that there's others, that those are probably a few things that are you know, keep you doing what you're doing a few things that are, you know, keep you doing what you're doing.
• 23:41
  Tina Swithin: Yeah, no, you know, my why is my daughters if they go on to have children?
• 23:43
  Tina Swithin: You know, I want this to be exposed.
• 23:46
  Tina Swithin: I want this cycle to be brought to an end before that happens, before their friends go on to have kids, other kids.
• 23:54
  Tina Swithin: I have grand, I have two grandsons for my stepson.
• 23:56
  Tina Swithin: You know I don't want my kids other kids.
• 23:57
  Tina Swithin: I have two grandsons for my stepson.
• 23:58
  Tina Swithin: I don't want my kids, my grandsons, to continue out in this.
• 24:04
  Tina Swithin: I hope one day we see a system that is truly prioritizing kids.
• 24:10
  Tina Swithin: My why is the parents that I have been able to help?
• 24:15
  Tina Swithin: You know there are success stories.
• 24:17
  Tina Swithin: There are.
• 24:18
  Tina Swithin: You know, every once in a while I'll get a email from a judge or a family court professional who says thank you for doing the work you're doing, thank you for exposing, you know, the corruption you know, thank you for, you know, and that gives me hope that there are still some people out there.
• 24:36
  Tina Swithin: That gives me hope that there are still some people out there.
• 24:41
  Tina Swithin: And you know, and accountability, when I see these professionals, professionals who are, you know, profiting off of people's trauma and and and fueling the litigation when I see them held accountable, because accountability is not something we see a lot of in family court.
• 24:58
  Tina Swithin: I think if the everyday citizen knew what was happening in family court, we would have everyone around the United States linking arms with us in outrage.
• 25:09
  Tina Swithin: And that's really what we need, because this is a system that has no oversight, no regulation.
• 25:17
  Tina Swithin: You know people will say oh, if you don't agree with the decision, go appeal it.
• 25:21
  Tina Swithin: That is so unrealistic.
• 25:23
  Tina Swithin: First of all, appeals are incredibly expensive and they're rarely successful.
• 25:29
  Tina Swithin: You know you're asking colleagues of a judge to rule against that person, which is then a negative mark on that judge's record.
• 25:38
  Tina Swithin: They just don't do it.
• 25:40
  Tina Swithin: It is very rare for there to be any type of accountability.
• 25:45
  Tina Swithin: So until something changes, I'm going to keep using my platform to expose the judges who are failing kids.
• 25:53
  Tina Swithin: You know there's a judge in Colorado Most people would be shocked to know this.
• 25:58
  Tina Swithin: She two of her rulings have resulted in two different children from two different families being murdered, and she is still on the bench.
• 26:09
  Tina Swithin: You can literally hand down a ruling that results in a child's death and show up to work the next day and continue your reign of terror with nothing, no accountability at all that is horrifying and it should outrage everyone.
• 26:27
  Tina Swithin: Um, you know what is happening?
• 26:30
  Tina Swithin: I really do believe.
• 26:32
  Tina Swithin: When it is finally exposed, it will be the scandal of our lifetime.
• 26:48
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And that's not a reason I was hoping to have you on, I guess, to continue exposing what is happening, and with some of the judges it might be related, like you said, profiting money, continuing their reign on the bench, and well, this is what my colleagues are doing.
• 27:01
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: So if I go, like you said, for appeals, I go against them, then it's going to look negatively on me and so people just go, the judges, they just go on just like nothing ever happened and if you speak up against them, you're going to be met with a gag order or you're going to be silenced.
• 27:22
  Tina Swithin: It is shocking that my judge actually the one you know in addition to finally protecting my kids, he did honor my right to free speech, and it was a constant topic in the courtroom about my blog, about me speaking out.
• 27:37
  Tina Swithin: I believe it made everyone sit up a little bit straighter.
• 27:39
  Tina Swithin: You know, did I take a huge risk?
• 27:42
  Tina Swithin: Yes, and I didn't even know it was a risk at that time.
• 27:45
  Tina Swithin: Now, you know, when parents want to speak out, I tell them you really have to weigh it out, because if you speak out, you risk a gag order and then you're silenced and things are going to get even worse.
• 27:57
  Tina Swithin: You're going to see retaliatory judicial rulings that could make you lose your kids completely.
• 28:04
  Tina Swithin: So you know it's do as I say, not as I do.
• 28:08
  Tina Swithin: You know, unfortunately it's.
• 28:10
  Tina Swithin: It's a huge risk that I took and it worked out, you know well for me.
• 28:17
  Tina Swithin: But you know, and and that is something I will also never take for granted and that's why I use my platform to expose injustice and to give others a voice when they have been silenced, because most people are silenced- yeah, and that's I mean, it's just really terrifying.
• 28:37
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Like you mentioned, the ruling that a judge can give can literally be a death sentence for children, and not for anybody, but for children it's just, it's intense.
• 28:54
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Can you talk a little bit about the retaliatory?
• 28:58
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And I don't know if you've had people other than judges that have said negative things about you and the work that you've done, because we're finding, with certain topics ruffle more feathers than others, topics ruffle more feathers than others.
• 29:21
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, but you know, we're finding, with some, some topics where there's people that very strongly oppose.
• 29:24
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Why are you exposing this?
• 29:25
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Why are you talking about this?
• 29:26
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And, and my, I guess part of my belief is, if there are people that are against it and that's mean you're doing something right.
• 29:36
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, have you had any?
• 29:38
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: I don't.
• 29:39
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Just people are like oh you know, tina, or one mom's battle yeah, you know lots I.
• 29:46
  Tina Swithin: I take my personal safety and the safety of my family very seriously because you know, very recently, in this past year, I've had death threats against me and um, not hidden, you know, cryptic death threats, but blatant online people who we can trace and then trace their criminal history and how scary these individuals are.
• 30:09
  Tina Swithin: So these are credible, scary threats.
• 30:13
  Tina Swithin: You know I'm remarried.
• 30:16
  Tina Swithin: My husband has had to get a concealed carry permit because of our safety issues.
• 30:21
  Tina Swithin: We have cameras, we have an alarm system.
• 30:24
  Tina Swithin: You know measures that I would have never normally taken because I live in a very safe community in California and that's not a typical fear of most people in my area.
• 30:35
  Tina Swithin: But you know I am.
• 30:37
  Tina Swithin: I'm threatening and exposing a probably hundred billion dollar industry.
• 30:43
  Tina Swithin: I have no idea how, what the value truly is, but there's so many of these.
• 30:48
  Tina Swithin: You've mentioned reunification therapy, reunification treatments, camps.
• 30:53
  Tina Swithin: This is unregulated experimental treatments.
• 30:57
  Tina Swithin: Our kids are not Guinea pigs and you know these people can charge $40,000 for four days of these programs.
• 31:07
  Tina Swithin: So when I say they are using childhood trauma for revenue streams, we're talking a lot of money and so I am very much a threat to their industry.
• 31:18
  Tina Swithin: And what has this multi-level marketing scheme they've been created.
• 31:21
  Tina Swithin: They only target families who have the financial resources.
• 31:26
  Tina Swithin: You know a lot of people have a misconception that if you have money you're better able to protect your kids.
• 31:32
  Tina Swithin: I will tell you, I would much rather walk into the system the way I did without a penny to my name, because I was able to protect my kids had I had financial resources, even if it's college accounts.
• 31:46
  Tina Swithin: I've seen judges order people to cash out their children's college accounts for these experimental reunification treatments and programs.
• 31:55
  Tina Swithin: That is the level of collusion and corruption that we're talking about.
• 32:00
  Tina Swithin: I am so grateful I had no money.
• 32:03
  Tina Swithin: I still recognize my privilege.
• 32:06
  Tina Swithin: I know, just being a white woman in the system, I am much more privileged than most.
• 32:12
  Tina Swithin: There are lots of issues in the system.
• 32:15
  Tina Swithin: Our marginalized communities are at an even greater disadvantage, regardless of income.
• 32:21
  Tina Swithin: So lots of issues and exposing them.
• 32:26
  Tina Swithin: Exposing all of these issues comes at a great risk and it can be scary.
• 32:34
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah, I'd say it's not for the weary of heart, uh, and you have to have that drive and and fire to to do it, to continue and just the I've seen people, you know people.
• 32:52
  Tina Swithin: So over the years, so many people.
• 32:53
  Tina Swithin: It's a revolving door of advocacy.
• 32:56
  Tina Swithin: People come in guns, blazing the best of intentions there, for the right reasons.
• 33:02
  Tina Swithin: They last three, four years at the most, because you know I I don't know what it is, you know about me and and but I do think it does have to do with I've been a fighter since I came into this world and um, yeah, okay.
• 33:20
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Well, we're uh unfortunately getting close to the end of our time on this.
• 33:25
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, the second part.
• 33:26
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Can you share how, how people can learn about your movement?
• 33:31
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, they volunteer.
• 33:33
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: I.
• 33:34
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: I don't know how how it works, uh, but uh, you can get your plugs however you want your books, your books as well.
• 33:41
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah.
• 33:41
  Tina Swithin: Yeah, I, all of my books are on Amazon.
• 33:44
  Tina Swithin: Uh, tina Swithin.
• 33:45
  Tina Swithin: My last name is easy, it's the word within with an S before it's.
• 33:49
  Tina Swithin: You can Google me.
• 33:50
  Tina Swithin: Um, my main book is divorcing a narcissist one mom's battle, and that tells my whole story from start to finish.
• 33:58
  Tina Swithin: And then one mom's battlecom is the resource hub for whether you want to get involved in legislative action or find a community support or online courses, any of that.
• 34:13
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: We're kind of a one stop place for everything family court related, but we're kind of a one-stop place for everything family court related Excellent and thank you for what you have and what you are doing, from human to human exposing and bringing some hard topics and experiences to the table.
• 34:34
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: It does bring some I'll say the haters but I also look at any celebrity or entertainer that, no matter how popular they are, there's always going to be people that they don't like them for whatever reason.
• 34:52
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm not a celebrity, so I have to expect that there's probably going to be some people, especially when you're talking about uh, people's livelihoods and uh yeah and and uh, when, when you're trying to take, take their job and what they have been doing, which isn't good, uh, and and that's when people get like really fired up and it's uh, it's fighters like like you, um, that are really making a difference here.
• 35:22
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, here I'll say locally, like in the United States, but sounds like globally as well that people are have have learned about the movement.
• 35:33
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, and I really just want to thank you big time for, you know, being on on the show, because it's a privilege to have someone like yourself.
• 35:44
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: That is is a fire that is trying to make change on the big, big level as well as the local level yeah, well, no thank and thank you for the work you're doing and for the invitation.
• 35:57
  Tina Swithin: I'm'm really really grateful to connect and to share your message as well.
• 36:03
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Thank you, and for our viewers, our listeners, thank you so much for joining us.
• 36:09
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: If you haven't checked out the first part of our interview with the One Mom's Battle you know, please go back and check that out.
• 36:20
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: And just grateful to have people like Tina that are coming out and exposing and wanting the best for all human beings, but especially when we're talking about children.
• 36:35
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: So until next time, we ask.
• 36:39
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: We hope that you're a voice for yourself or somebody in need.
• 36:43
  Voices for Voices Founder, Justin Alan Hayes: Thank you.