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Breakthroughs in the Commercial Space Industry · Bloomberg Intelligence

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside
0:04
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring
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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast
0:15
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
0:18
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. All right, let's talk
0:21
Speaker 1: to space. I mean, yesterday was an exciting day for
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Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos for commercialization of space. If you will, Let's
0:28
Speaker 1: bring in uh Andrew shen And he's a chief executive
0:30
Speaker 1: officer procure a m Andrew, you know a lot of
0:33
Speaker 1: folks talking about space, talking about the commercialization of space,
0:37
Speaker 1: privatization of space. You're right on the front lines. What
0:39
Speaker 1: did you take away from what we've seen over the
0:42
Speaker 1: last you know, ten days, first with Sir Richard Branson
0:44
Speaker 1: and then yesterday with Jeff Bezos. What's your takeaway? I
0:48
Speaker 1: think it's truly incredible and inspiring, and we're seeing, you know,
0:52
Speaker 1: in real time in our lives, how people that you
0:56
Speaker 1: know focus money and technology and invest in these types
0:59
Speaker 1: of techechnologies are able to achieve their goals. And I
1:03
Speaker 1: think it's you really encouraging for individuals, whether you're students,
1:07
Speaker 1: whether you're entrepreneurs UM, whether you're just fascinated by space
1:11
Speaker 1: to CEO over and over again. I feel like this
1:13
Speaker 1: year we've seen some incredible breakthroughs and some new technologies,
1:17
Speaker 1: and it's opening up the commercial space industry. As you said,
1:20
Speaker 1: So in terms of investors, what kind of interest have
1:24
Speaker 1: you got? I mean, I know we've seen incredibly inflows
1:27
Speaker 1: into space um related assets, but but where do people
1:32
Speaker 1: want to put their money? Where? Where are you looking
1:34
Speaker 1: to invest in space related stuff? Yeah, so, you know,
1:40
Speaker 1: space is also a risky proposition. You know, it takes time,
1:43
Speaker 1: it takes money, and you know, certainly safety is something
1:45
Speaker 1: that needs to be figured out before companies can really
1:49
Speaker 1: uh move forward quickly. And you know, for us from
1:52
Speaker 1: the you know, my whole experiences being in the h
1:55
Speaker 1: F market, diversification was always something that I thought was,
1:58
Speaker 1: you know, something investors might want look at, especially with
2:01
Speaker 1: earlier stage, longer term kind of industry such as space
2:04
Speaker 1: being one of those. And you know, right now, if
2:07
Speaker 1: you look at UFO, it's got thirty five companies from
2:09
Speaker 1: around the world, all specializing in different areas. But you
2:12
Speaker 1: have a real large exposure to satellites and communications and
2:16
Speaker 1: you're not really getting much of that exposure through other
2:18
Speaker 1: types of ets. But you're getting all different areas to
2:21
Speaker 1: like space tourism and launch companies as well as those
2:24
Speaker 1: using your creative technology that we can use in space,
2:27
Speaker 1: as well as using space to help us benefit ourselves
2:30
Speaker 1: down here on Earth. Andrew, you know, I think what
2:33
Speaker 1: yesterday's launch and the launch from Richard Branson earlier just
2:37
Speaker 1: kind of revised the conversation about. Okay, remind me again,
2:41
Speaker 1: what is the business case for commercializing space? Is it
2:44
Speaker 1: space tourism, is it hauling stuff around? Um? How do
2:49
Speaker 1: how do you think about it? Yeah, well, if you
2:52
Speaker 1: if you look at Blue Origin, their goal is to
2:55
Speaker 1: build the road to space so that you know, the
2:58
Speaker 1: future can can enjoy space. And being able to create
3:01
Speaker 1: things like reusable rockets which help lower the cost of
3:05
Speaker 1: launching things into outer space is one way you can
3:08
Speaker 1: do that. And by being able to lower the barriers
3:10
Speaker 1: of entry to space, it could bring in completely new
3:13
Speaker 1: companies and entrances and research projects and whatnot. Um that
3:17
Speaker 1: maybe we're preventedive before at higher costs. So there's a
3:20
Speaker 1: lot that they're doing right now in space, and they're
3:23
Speaker 1: trying to build out that infrastructure so we can really
3:25
Speaker 1: start to see what we can do when when we
3:28
Speaker 1: can get these costs down. Space tourism is just you know,
3:31
Speaker 1: one small part of the broader space industry, and so
3:34
Speaker 1: that hasn't stopped it from getting the lion share of
3:36
Speaker 1: the attention in recent days. Yeah, I mean, tourism is exciting.
3:39
Speaker 1: I can't wait till me and Paul can go broadcast
3:42
Speaker 1: live from some private space station. But what else can
3:47
Speaker 1: you do up there? I mean, can you can you
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Speaker 1: mine resources up there? Can you um bring some heavy
3:53
Speaker 1: industry up there so we don't have to have the
3:55
Speaker 1: carbon emissions here on Earth? I mean, is there really
3:58
Speaker 1: uh a lot allread planned? There's a tremendous amount of
4:03
Speaker 1: things that you can do in space and we're not
4:05
Speaker 1: even scratching the surface where we haven't even gotten to
4:08
Speaker 1: the surface. Really, when you look at things and yes,
4:11
Speaker 1: you know manufacturing and outer space, well, when you're building
4:14
Speaker 1: with with zero, with weightlessness, you know, that's that's incredible.
4:18
Speaker 1: You know, you can build things more efficiently, you can
4:20
Speaker 1: build things larger, but really, you know, you mentioned your
4:23
Speaker 1: resource extraction and mining asteroids. Yes, it might be a
4:26
Speaker 1: little bit further along, but we already have plans of
4:29
Speaker 1: going to the Moon and building permanent bases, and China
4:31
Speaker 1: wants to build a permanent research based on the Moon.
4:34
Speaker 1: By well, you can't do that without being able to
4:37
Speaker 1: extract the resources around you unless you want to try
4:39
Speaker 1: to send every single item that you're going to need
4:41
Speaker 1: in space to outer space, which takes time and a
4:44
Speaker 1: significant amount of money. So being able to actually harness
4:47
Speaker 1: the resources that are available in outer space becomes extremely
4:50
Speaker 1: critical as we try to expand humanity beyond Earth. And
4:54
Speaker 1: so you know the resources are there, figuring out the
4:57
Speaker 1: technologies on how we can bring them to two people.
5:00
Speaker 1: How do you sustain life on the Moon, on Mars,
5:02
Speaker 1: on the space station, and we have already seen some
5:04
Speaker 1: incredible technologies like being able to better purify water, and
5:08
Speaker 1: that's something that we can use here on Earth. We
5:10
Speaker 1: saw space helped build out and further improved technologies for
5:14
Speaker 1: solar technology, which is another benefit. So there's a lot
5:17
Speaker 1: that you could do with space and here all right, Andrew,
5:19
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. We always appreciate
5:21
Speaker 1: getting your thoughts in perspective here on this space race,
5:25
Speaker 1: if you will, commercialization, privatization of space. Andrew Shannon, Chief
5:29
Speaker 1: Ecazette Officer of Procure a M and again it was
5:32
Speaker 1: a busy week with the Jeff Bezos Blue Origin UFO,
5:35
Speaker 1: the UFO E t F. Yeah, the UFO et F.
5:38
Speaker 1: It's has to be that ticker. There's no other ticker
5:40
Speaker 1: that could consider called Cristopher, head of Global Market Strategy
5:44
Speaker 1: at Wells Fargo Investment Institute, based in the city of St. Louis. Paul,
5:49
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here again just this week.
5:52
Speaker 1: It seems to be a little bit of a microcosm
5:54
Speaker 1: what we've been dealing with. You know, a little bit
5:55
Speaker 1: of volatility, but I mean a lot of altility, arguably
5:58
Speaker 1: from a Monday through a wednes but still grinding higher.
6:02
Speaker 1: How do you guys think about equities in a market
6:05
Speaker 1: where you have, boy, the tenure on seven. Yeah, there's
6:10
Speaker 1: there's just no reason for the tenure to be at
6:12
Speaker 1: two a one point to seven percent. But look at
6:15
Speaker 1: the twos to tens spread. Look at that yield curve slope.
6:18
Speaker 1: It's the last time you had a hundred and seven
6:21
Speaker 1: basis points or one point seven percent and that slope
6:24
Speaker 1: was two thousand seventeen, pretty good year for equities. We
6:27
Speaker 1: still think that what we're looking at here is a
6:30
Speaker 1: market that ran very hard, very fast. Uh And and
6:33
Speaker 1: and expectations got ahead of themselves. But we think the
6:36
Speaker 1: the growth is still strong. Equities have further to run,
6:39
Speaker 1: and we think that the yield curve will steep and
6:41
Speaker 1: eventually further. How how does that happen with the yield
6:45
Speaker 1: curve and what's going on right now with rates? So
6:48
Speaker 1: what's going on right now some combination of I mean
6:51
Speaker 1: one twenty for heaven's sake on the tenure, that's like
6:54
Speaker 1: our recession. So so people have run ahead the expectations
6:58
Speaker 1: for growth a run ahead of reality. Uh. And now
7:01
Speaker 1: now we're seeing discussions about pete growth. We're seeing discussions
7:05
Speaker 1: about could have fed make a policy mistake? Are they
7:07
Speaker 1: withdrawing liquidity? Uh? You're seeing central banks around the world
7:11
Speaker 1: withdrawing liquidity. And then you you've got also the conversation
7:14
Speaker 1: about the delta variant? Is that going to result in
7:16
Speaker 1: more lockdown? So markets need to get through work themselves
7:20
Speaker 1: through those several issues, and then we think you'll start
7:23
Speaker 1: to see if you're gonna have inflation higher, and we
7:25
Speaker 1: think we will have inflation somewhat higher than the average
7:28
Speaker 1: of the last ten years. Will it'll be higher for
7:31
Speaker 1: the next couple You're gonna have inflation at two. You're
7:34
Speaker 1: gonna have yields higher than what they are right now, eventually.
7:37
Speaker 1: But some of these psychological issues have to be worked through,
7:41
Speaker 1: all right, Paul. Some people in the marketing, the equity markets,
7:43
Speaker 1: you know, they're kind of it's at pull and tug.
7:46
Speaker 1: Do I embrace some of those big growth stories that
7:48
Speaker 1: have been so good for so long, the Amazons, the
7:50
Speaker 1: Netflix of the world have just reported last night, Or
7:52
Speaker 1: do I, you know, kind of play into that rotation trade,
7:55
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of a reopening trade some of
7:57
Speaker 1: the cyclicals, some the financials maybe, do you How do
7:59
Speaker 1: you guys think about that? Yeah, So for a while
8:02
Speaker 1: this year we were actually barbelled. We had an overweight
8:04
Speaker 1: to cyclicals and an overweight to growth. Um, we've decided
8:08
Speaker 1: to go tactically short term with an overweight now to cyclicals,
8:13
Speaker 1: and we returned growth. So I think TEX think a
8:17
Speaker 1: consumer discretionary. We returned those to their long term allocations.
8:21
Speaker 1: So if you have sort of a long term view,
8:24
Speaker 1: and you're willing to give text some reasonable allocation over
8:28
Speaker 1: that long term. Stick with that allocation right now, but
8:31
Speaker 1: take money from defensives like utilities UH and stapled and
8:35
Speaker 1: put that into cyclicals for the moment. No one likes
8:39
Speaker 1: defensives right now and they're underperforming. Yeah, well, that's one
8:44
Speaker 1: of our best calls this year. I guess that's why
8:46
Speaker 1: you want to stay out of the area. What do
8:48
Speaker 1: you think regionally? Does the US continue to outperform? Do
8:53
Speaker 1: you bet on other reopening trades in Europe, for example,
8:56
Speaker 1: or in Asia? We don't think it's time to to
8:59
Speaker 1: bet on that opening trade. They will struggle with the
9:02
Speaker 1: delta more than we will. UH. They're they're being more
9:05
Speaker 1: close together. You will have parts of the U s
9:07
Speaker 1: that will adopt mask mandates back again, we think, but
9:10
Speaker 1: the US is probably still the place to be. We've
9:13
Speaker 1: done well with that preference over time. We'd like emerging
9:16
Speaker 1: markets better than Europe and Japan also, but they may
9:19
Speaker 1: struggle a little bit in the coming months until their
9:21
Speaker 1: vaccination rates get up there. So stick for right now,
9:25
Speaker 1: stick with the U s as and overweight, and if
9:27
Speaker 1: you have anything left over cash wise stick that in
9:29
Speaker 1: emerging markets. How about yield? I mean, boy, is again
9:32
Speaker 1: we were just talking about the ten year at one
9:34
Speaker 1: point to seven. Where are you looking for or where
9:36
Speaker 1: do you suggest to your clients they look for yield? Well,
9:41
Speaker 1: right now we're thinking kind of like two percent of
9:43
Speaker 1: the end of the year. We're reviewing that number though
9:46
Speaker 1: that might be a little bit high, but it's certainly
9:49
Speaker 1: going to be higher, we think, than where it is
9:50
Speaker 1: right now. Alright, So, uh, we're looking at a situation
9:57
Speaker 1: where it's not it's not easy to find a return.
10:00
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're not looking in stocks, um, do
10:03
Speaker 1: you do you trust the high yield market to not default?
10:05
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, we saw I think it was um
10:10
Speaker 1: uh it was Standard Pores that said only one percent
10:13
Speaker 1: of junk dad is going to default this year. It
10:15
Speaker 1: seems like a big bat to me. It's an interesting question.
10:20
Speaker 1: I mean the question for investors that the real question
10:22
Speaker 1: that you should always come back to is am I
10:24
Speaker 1: getting paid to take that risk? Exactly? And with the
10:26
Speaker 1: dividend yield in the in the SMP right now at
10:29
Speaker 1: a percent and a half, you're not that much below
10:31
Speaker 1: where what you would get in yield on a on
10:33
Speaker 1: a high yield, but with a lot more risk. We
10:35
Speaker 1: think not this year perhaps, but in the coming year.
10:38
Speaker 1: So you know, I wouldn't be buying a lot of
10:40
Speaker 1: high yield here. Certainly your long term allocation. If you
10:44
Speaker 1: have some fixed income in your long term goals, take
10:47
Speaker 1: your high yield up to that allocation, but don't overweight
10:50
Speaker 1: it at the expense of equities. Very good. Paul Christopher,
10:53
Speaker 1: head of Global market Strategy at the Wells Fargo Investment
10:56
Speaker 1: Institute based in St. Louis. We appreciate getting of thoughts here.
11:03
Speaker 1: I'm pretty pumped because we're gonna bring in Adam Johnson
11:06
Speaker 1: right now. He's the founder and author of The Bulls
11:09
Speaker 1: eyebrew a brief but um full disclosure. He's also one
11:12
Speaker 1: of my favorite people. We have uh we used to
11:15
Speaker 1: play a lot of squash together. We've been known to
11:17
Speaker 1: have the occasional beverage together. And he's got a lot
11:20
Speaker 1: of great ideas about stocks that he likes, especially American
11:25
Speaker 1: kind of ingenuity plays. And he's done everything on Wall
11:28
Speaker 1: Street traded like jet fuel futures. He has run a
11:32
Speaker 1: hedge fund, found and run a hedge fund. He was
11:35
Speaker 1: an anchor here at Bloomberg TV Um, Adam, great to
11:38
Speaker 1: have you with us. UM. I'm looking through I'm looking
11:43
Speaker 1: through the bulls Eye brief from Monday, and I see
11:47
Speaker 1: you've got some new picks. And this is what you do.
11:50
Speaker 1: You're an idea factory right for people who love stocks.
11:53
Speaker 1: So one of them stands out to me because you are, UM,
11:58
Speaker 1: a very clean cut Princeton man. But I see a
12:01
Speaker 1: marijuana company here, you like purely foldings. What's the deal. Well,
12:06
Speaker 1: you know, I've been resisting this for so long. In fact,
12:09
Speaker 1: I started off the note I said to people. You know,
12:11
Speaker 1: I've I've never inhaled, I've never had a hash rownie.
12:14
Speaker 1: But I think I need to start taking this thing seriously.
12:17
Speaker 1: And and I'll tell you why. I'll give you one
12:19
Speaker 1: statistic that I think really UM sort of frames the
12:23
Speaker 1: conversation about UM. I hesitate to say pot stocks, but
12:27
Speaker 1: let's call them cannabis stocks. UM. In the state of Illinois,
12:30
Speaker 1: in the first quarter, total tax revenues from cannabis almost
12:35
Speaker 1: equaled total tax revenues from liquor. That's amazing. So you
12:40
Speaker 1: know it's it's yeah, it gets my attention to and
12:44
Speaker 1: and again you know, it's not the sort of thing
12:46
Speaker 1: my whole thing's American ingenuity right to people and companies
12:49
Speaker 1: driving the world forward. And um, you know, I don't
12:53
Speaker 1: usually think of recreational activities, which may include cannabis, as
12:58
Speaker 1: as necessarily innovative. And yet, uh, there is some incredibly
13:02
Speaker 1: innovative stuff that's happening. Um, I mean there are a
13:05
Speaker 1: number of pharmaceuticals that actually are starting to use CDD,
13:09
Speaker 1: one of the two essential chemicals in cannabis, to treat
13:14
Speaker 1: things like autism. And you know, so I think, I
13:17
Speaker 1: just think it. The reason I wrote this up is
13:19
Speaker 1: I feel like again, it's kind of funny. I feel
13:21
Speaker 1: a little tongue in cheek. It's the blue chip pure
13:24
Speaker 1: Leaf is the blue chip operator. It's the most profitable operator.
13:28
Speaker 1: It's the largest, it's growing the fastest, it does everything right.
13:31
Speaker 1: It operates in about twenty three different states. It's margins
13:34
Speaker 1: are the highest. And I think there's just enough going
13:37
Speaker 1: on here that that I wanted to educate myself about
13:40
Speaker 1: this thing, and and I decided that I was sold
13:43
Speaker 1: on it. So I wrote it up for my buals
13:44
Speaker 1: Eye subscribers as the current pick. So I've been buying
13:47
Speaker 1: it this week. Interesting, Adam, I know, you know, I've
13:49
Speaker 1: again I've always considered you just a fine stock picker.
13:52
Speaker 1: I know you're uh focus a lot on technology and
13:56
Speaker 1: and how that's changing lives. And I think if we've
14:00
Speaker 1: I'm out of anything out of this pandemic. I think
14:01
Speaker 1: probably investors have a perhaps even a more a better
14:04
Speaker 1: appreciation for med tech biotech and you know some of
14:08
Speaker 1: the advances they've had in terms of the vaccines. Where
14:11
Speaker 1: are you looking right now in that med tech biotech space?
14:14
Speaker 1: What's got your attension? Well, I'll tell you, I think
14:17
Speaker 1: the intersection of artificial intelligence and wearables is incredibly exciting.
14:22
Speaker 1: I actually call it the Holy Grail of healthcare. What
14:25
Speaker 1: we're now doing is using UM wearables. UM you know,
14:29
Speaker 1: an eye watch that that monitors your your vital signals,
14:34
Speaker 1: transmits that data to a doctor thanks to five G
14:38
Speaker 1: who then not only compares UM that incoming data in
14:42
Speaker 1: real time to your own baseline, but to millions of
14:46
Speaker 1: other patients. And all of a sudden, now you can
14:49
Speaker 1: start to have a conversation with a doctor, or really
14:53
Speaker 1: between a patient a doctor whereby they say, well, you know,
14:55
Speaker 1: maybe you want to adjust your behavior this way, and
14:57
Speaker 1: again it could be done in real time. So to me,
15:00
Speaker 1: that intersection um of of data and preventative care, that's
15:04
Speaker 1: the holy grail of healthcare. It's longer lives for patients,
15:08
Speaker 1: it's lower costs for providers. It's very exciting. There a
15:11
Speaker 1: whole bunch of aims that we could, you know, get
15:13
Speaker 1: into from Health Catalyst h C A T too in
15:16
Speaker 1: Novolan I n O V obviously to a doc which
15:20
Speaker 1: bought love angoum on and on. I mean, it's just
15:23
Speaker 1: that that really gets my attention. Guys, you like nine meter,
15:26
Speaker 1: you like telamed Um, You've got a few picks, and
15:30
Speaker 1: I'll let I guess um listeners subscribe the bulls Eye
15:33
Speaker 1: brief for that. I wonder about Chipotle. Why do you
15:37
Speaker 1: like Chipotle? We've been talking a lot about it. I
15:39
Speaker 1: think Paul had five burritos for lunch. But I see
15:42
Speaker 1: that you were buying it on on the dip. I
15:44
Speaker 1: guess on Monday. Well, actually you know what I was.
15:47
Speaker 1: I was buying charge point. Uh the ticker for which
15:50
Speaker 1: is uh, oh, excuse me, my mistake c HPT. I
15:55
Speaker 1: instantly thought of Mexican food. What's the charge point? You know? Look?
15:59
Speaker 1: You you and I are you and I are are
16:01
Speaker 1: big fans of Mexican food, so you know, I'm not
16:04
Speaker 1: gonna hold it against you. It's not your favorite Mexican place.
16:06
Speaker 1: I know that because I've been there with Mexicano. There
16:09
Speaker 1: you go. Ye, what's charge Point then? Oh? Charge Point
16:14
Speaker 1: is really really cool company, believe it or not. It's
16:16
Speaker 1: the largest UM producer and operator of what's called level
16:21
Speaker 1: two chargers for electric vehicles. And Level two chargers, by
16:24
Speaker 1: the way, are the ones that that you have if
16:27
Speaker 1: you want to be able to charge your card, you know,
16:29
Speaker 1: within an hour or two, as opposed to a Level
16:31
Speaker 1: one which takes all night. UM. You can buy a
16:34
Speaker 1: level two charge you r at home depot at auto Zone. Amazingly,
16:38
Speaker 1: charge Point again tickers c HPT. This I recommended to
16:43
Speaker 1: both I subscribers a couple of weeks ago, so I've
16:45
Speaker 1: been buying it recently, building my position UM market share
16:49
Speaker 1: here in the US. That's incredible about in Europe UM again,
16:54
Speaker 1: strong margins obviously, the things growing like a weed. Um uh.
16:59
Speaker 1: And it's just it's you know, it's an exciting place
17:02
Speaker 1: to be talk about American ingenuity. You know, here's the
17:04
Speaker 1: company that enables us to be cleaner electric vehicles on
17:08
Speaker 1: and on. Great having you, Adam, thanks so much for
17:11
Speaker 1: joining us. Adam Johnson there, who is the founder and
17:14
Speaker 1: the author of the Bulls Eye Brief, calling in from
17:18
Speaker 1: maybe he is at Rosa, Mexicana right now. He's got
17:20
Speaker 1: to be great Twitter feed as well. That's a musse
17:22
Speaker 1: follow from me, follow him. This is Bloomberg. Bloomberg Markets
17:28
Speaker 1: does roll on. Unfortunately, so does the coronavirus. And I'm
17:32
Speaker 1: gonna bring in Sam Facility to talk a little bit
17:33
Speaker 1: about that right now. He's got his latest research out
17:37
Speaker 1: on the terminal delta variants bad attributes may warrant a
17:41
Speaker 1: new COVID vaccine. He is, of course, or senior pharmaceutical analyst.
17:45
Speaker 1: He also runs AMA Research. Paul and I were talking
17:48
Speaker 1: about this. He's got a PhD in the stuff, so
17:50
Speaker 1: he knows what he's talking about. Sam My. My concern
17:54
Speaker 1: after reading your story is we know that, um, the
17:58
Speaker 1: delta variant is more infectious. Um, you point out that
18:02
Speaker 1: there's a raised viral load but also potentially worst disease outcomes.
18:08
Speaker 1: What do we know? What don't we know about the
18:11
Speaker 1: actual effects of this virus? Yeah? Hi, Math, So you've
18:16
Speaker 1: obviously got the data that came out of the de
18:19
Speaker 1: continues to flow out of Public Health England that looks
18:22
Speaker 1: at the phrase that that a lot of virologists don't
18:25
Speaker 1: like transmissibility of the virus, and that increased relative to
18:30
Speaker 1: the alpha variant in the region of thirty fiftiest seven
18:35
Speaker 1: seven or so present. And then and then you've got
18:38
Speaker 1: on top of that what looks to be a higher
18:40
Speaker 1: rate of hospitalizations in people who get infected, which of
18:44
Speaker 1: course depends on age and a lot of other factors.
18:47
Speaker 1: So you've got that data, and then what this data
18:49
Speaker 1: that came out that shows that the virus obviously have
18:51
Speaker 1: higher viral loads, so the more virus you have in
18:53
Speaker 1: your body, it is possible that it gets to the
18:57
Speaker 1: different corners of your body better or even has much
19:01
Speaker 1: bigger impact on your lung. And then also you get
19:04
Speaker 1: this thing that that these some of these viruses do,
19:07
Speaker 1: which is to basically force your the cells that they
19:12
Speaker 1: infect to fuse together, which is part of the pathology,
19:15
Speaker 1: but they use that also to multiply under the radar
19:19
Speaker 1: from your antibodies. So then you get one massive release
19:23
Speaker 1: of virus that is not good either. And this this
19:26
Speaker 1: delta varian seems to have all these wonderful attributes that
19:30
Speaker 1: that that do do the damage. Sam, do you is
19:33
Speaker 1: there what's the science telling us now about the ability
19:36
Speaker 1: of the various vaccines that are in the marketplace now
19:40
Speaker 1: as it relates to this delta variant. It's a pot
19:43
Speaker 1: There's two ways to to answer that question. If you
19:46
Speaker 1: want to go by what the world seems to get
19:48
Speaker 1: excited about, which is case counts, mild infections, anything that
19:52
Speaker 1: that tests positive and a PC are, then then we're
19:55
Speaker 1: in trouble because this delta variant is it's very fit
20:00
Speaker 1: us as quickly from person to person, and it's possible
20:03
Speaker 1: that it's more resistant to that initial shield of antibodies
20:08
Speaker 1: that vaccines give us, particularly antibodies for instance that we
20:12
Speaker 1: just saw recently from data from Johnson and Johnson. But
20:15
Speaker 1: if we go one step further and say, I actually
20:17
Speaker 1: know what we really worry about or care about is
20:19
Speaker 1: prevention of disease, not not costant sniffles, but actually lung damage, hospitalization,
20:27
Speaker 1: severe disease, etcetera. I think all the vaccines are capable
20:32
Speaker 1: of preventing that to about the same level as they
20:35
Speaker 1: have been to the other variants. My my biggest concern
20:40
Speaker 1: is the long haul COVID, and we don't really know
20:44
Speaker 1: so much about it yet. We can't obviously it hasn't
20:46
Speaker 1: been around long enough. But you know, I suffered from
20:49
Speaker 1: long term lime disease. I still have issues occasionally. Is
20:53
Speaker 1: this going to be the same kind of thing, Sam,
20:55
Speaker 1: that some people who get this are going to suffer chronically? Yeah.
21:00
Speaker 1: I mean the uk AT is estimating something like six
21:03
Speaker 1: percent of people who got COVID or who think you've
21:06
Speaker 1: got COVID. There's there's there's a little new ones there
21:10
Speaker 1: are suffering from some form of long term effects. And
21:14
Speaker 1: then of course that's a lot, right If you've had
21:17
Speaker 1: then like two or three million people infected, that's a
21:20
Speaker 1: lot of people who continue to suffer. And I hear
21:23
Speaker 1: horror stories. I mean I have a friend whose sister
21:26
Speaker 1: is like a thirty year old marathon runner and she
21:29
Speaker 1: has been lethargic and really unable to do anything for months. Yeah. Yeah,
21:33
Speaker 1: but we need to tell that to all these people
21:35
Speaker 1: who don't want to take the vaccine thinking that they
21:38
Speaker 1: have a risk from the vaccine. Everybody will eventually get
21:42
Speaker 1: this virus. They can't unless they're going as I kind
21:45
Speaker 1: of remember who it wasn't set down unless you go
21:47
Speaker 1: and live in ardly the ahead of the medical the
21:50
Speaker 1: chief medical medicine officer in the UK, unless you gonna
21:54
Speaker 1: live in the meadow, in the middle of the meadow,
21:56
Speaker 1: from away from everybody else. So you can't lead your
21:59
Speaker 1: normal life, not get the vaccine and then think everything
22:02
Speaker 1: is gonna be fine. You don't know, it's a lottery,
22:05
Speaker 1: he said, washing Roulette. Sam, how about booster shots? I mean,
22:09
Speaker 1: how do you think this is going to evolve going forward?
22:12
Speaker 1: What we need booster shots? What do you think we're
22:14
Speaker 1: going to hear from somebody? So i can't wait to
22:16
Speaker 1: get my booster shot. I'm lined up as soon as
22:19
Speaker 1: they offer them, right exactly. So the issue is again
22:23
Speaker 1: if you were if you're going to run your country,
22:26
Speaker 1: which is a little bit what the UK is trying
22:28
Speaker 1: to do right now, right saying, look, we can control hospitalizations,
22:32
Speaker 1: we can reduce death, a little worry about cases and infections,
22:36
Speaker 1: which is of course lots of questions on that. Right,
22:40
Speaker 1: then you don't probably need the booster shot unless you
22:43
Speaker 1: know that there is a group of people who have
22:45
Speaker 1: an immune response that's weaker, or you're much older and
22:48
Speaker 1: you're way in the fact is going to get a
22:50
Speaker 1: booster shot. But if we're saying we need to stop
22:53
Speaker 1: infections and spreading and we don't want to have lockdowns anymore,
22:56
Speaker 1: but we have, we either need booster shots to boost
22:59
Speaker 1: the immune response or actually going to get a new vaccine,
23:02
Speaker 1: which is kind of what I'm suggesting here that represents
23:04
Speaker 1: the new variants that probably also protects you against the
23:07
Speaker 1: previous variants and and then hope that you really rebuild
23:12
Speaker 1: that shield and keep it there. Is that what we're
23:16
Speaker 1: seeing from the farmer companies is that? Or maybe is
23:18
Speaker 1: that what we're hearing from these farmer companies that hey,
23:21
Speaker 1: you know, we've already got a vaccine in there for
23:23
Speaker 1: fiser modern or jan J, but we're working on two
23:26
Speaker 1: point oh three point oh. Well, certainly MODERNA is already
23:30
Speaker 1: in trials with the with the beta variant vaccine and
23:34
Speaker 1: iterations of just and find the BioNTech are are are
23:39
Speaker 1: doing the same thing, and whether they want to Delta
23:42
Speaker 1: time will tell. But I think if I were them,
23:44
Speaker 1: I would have a vaccine for Delta and a vaccine
23:47
Speaker 1: for Beta, possibly mixed together or as separate, because then
23:51
Speaker 1: you've got the whole kind of variety of mutations covered.
23:54
Speaker 1: Assuming that they will work equally well, then you've got
23:57
Speaker 1: the opportunity to protect people. To san and Johnson, I'm
24:00
Speaker 1: sure we'll be doing the same Afterdnicaster, that they'll be
24:02
Speaker 1: doing the same. So no, found, no, no company that
24:05
Speaker 1: makes vaccines would in the right mind not to do
24:08
Speaker 1: not do this. Are you watching out for omega? Are
24:11
Speaker 1: we going to get Sigma kai, kappa kappa gamma? I mean,
24:14
Speaker 1: is there going to be more and more variants or
24:18
Speaker 1: or is delta kind of the end of it? I
24:21
Speaker 1: guarantee you, And it's if I've ever guaranteed anything. There's
24:25
Speaker 1: taxes and viral mutations. That is what these viruses do, right.
24:30
Speaker 1: There is no way that this virus doesn't continue to mutate.
24:33
Speaker 1: The question is will it emerge with another variant that
24:39
Speaker 1: has developed under pressure from vaccinated people or not That
24:45
Speaker 1: there's a lot of I don't think virologists believe that
24:48
Speaker 1: that actually is a real Is there a reality vaccine
24:51
Speaker 1: resistant viruses? But it's possible that by magic or by
24:56
Speaker 1: accident or by luck, it develops one mutation that allowed
25:00
Speaker 1: it to bypass the antibodies. Again, but again that's still
25:03
Speaker 1: back to the antipod. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg
25:06
Speaker 1: Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews with
25:10
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller.
25:15
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three at ball Sweeney,
25:19
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you
25:22
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.