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BONUS EPISODE | ‘The Prosecutors’: Scott Peterson Is Guilty · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Highly educated prosecutors to the most famous cold case mysteries
0:05
Speaker 1: of all time. Murder, mayhem, disappearances, you name it. If
0:10
Speaker 1: it's true crime, they're on it. In today's episode, Alice
0:14
Speaker 1: and Brett condense a six episode series into one concise
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Speaker 1: hour of all the evidence they believe points to why
0:24
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson is guilty in the murder of wife Lacy
0:29
Speaker 1: and unborn son Connor. The Prosecutors.
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Speaker 2: I'm Brett and I'm Alice.
0:43
Speaker 3: And we are the Prosecutors today on The Prosecutors, Scott
0:59
Speaker 3: Peterson is guilty. Hello everybody, and welcome to this episode
1:36
Speaker 3: of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett and I'm joined as always
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Speaker 3: by my efficient co host Alice.
1:45
Speaker 2: Hi Brett. Okay, guys, we're letting you in on a secret.
1:50
Speaker 2: Brett thinks we can somehow get through today's episode in
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Speaker 2: one episode. I don't know if we can. I'm not
1:56
Speaker 2: gonna lie because we are not going to do it.
1:59
Speaker 2: We have not been known not to be long winded.
2:02
Speaker 3: The whole point of this is to do this in
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Speaker 3: one of them.
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Speaker 2: Okay, find no, Okay, you know what you're right. Let's
2:07
Speaker 2: be efficient. We can do this. Challenge accepted challenge accepted.
2:11
Speaker 3: Okay, So what we're doing today, As you guys know,
2:13
Speaker 3: typically we go into cases we try to keep an
2:15
Speaker 3: open mind. We have done Scott Peterson. We did I
2:19
Speaker 3: think six episodes on Scott Peterson, maybe seven, who knows.
2:22
Speaker 3: It was a ton and a lot of you guys
2:25
Speaker 3: have been very complimentary about those episodes. But Scott Peterson's
2:28
Speaker 3: been in the news lately. In December, we're going to
2:31
Speaker 3: find out whether he gets a new trial. People always
2:34
Speaker 3: ask us why we think he's guilty to sum up
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Speaker 3: sort of the entirety of what we did before. So
2:40
Speaker 3: what we have decided to do is to cut out
2:43
Speaker 3: all the fluff and reduce this down to just the
2:47
Speaker 3: evidence that Scott Peterson is guilty. If you want to
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Speaker 3: hear the full thing, go listen to all six episodes,
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Speaker 3: where we will include the defense's arguments and various other things.
2:57
Speaker 3: This is why Scott Peterson is guilty, and we have
3:02
Speaker 3: tried really hard to cut this down to the point
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Speaker 3: where we can do it in one episode. There's a
3:08
Speaker 3: lot here, so we're going to see, but we're going
3:11
Speaker 3: to give it our best shot.
3:12
Speaker 2: And guys, note what we just said, we kept an
3:15
Speaker 2: open mind in all our previous episodes of Scott Peterson.
3:18
Speaker 2: What we're attempting to do here is like how we
3:21
Speaker 2: would write a brief where you have an advocacy point
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Speaker 2: that you're taking, and our advocacy point here is that
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Speaker 2: he's guilty. So those of you listening for the first
3:30
Speaker 2: time don't say they're so biased. We've already done the
3:33
Speaker 2: whole considering all sides of the issue. This is written
3:37
Speaker 2: like a law brief where you are an advocate for
3:40
Speaker 2: your side.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, So if anybody ever tells you there's no evidence
3:43
Speaker 3: that Scott Peterson's guilty, you can just direct them to
3:45
Speaker 3: this episode because frankly, not even all the evidence is
3:49
Speaker 3: in here. We cut judiciously to try and do this
3:52
Speaker 3: in one episode. So I think that's enough introduction. I
3:54
Speaker 3: think everybody gets what we're trying to do now. So
3:57
Speaker 3: we're going to do this God's feed out. I was
4:00
Speaker 3: seeing if we can do.
4:03
Speaker 2: I don't know which of us is going to be
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Speaker 2: more inefficient.
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Speaker 3: Well, we're gonna We're gonna do our best. Okay, let's
4:09
Speaker 3: start with the timeline. November twentieth, two thousand to Modesto,
4:15
Speaker 3: California on November twentieth, Peterson and Amber Fry meet at
4:21
Speaker 3: a bar in Fresno. They begin a whirlwind romance. On
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Speaker 3: December second, while they are decorating the Christmas tree, Amber
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Speaker 3: asked Peterson if he has ever been married or ever
4:33
Speaker 3: been close to being married. Peterson says no. Amber also
4:38
Speaker 3: asks Scott if he has children or if he's ever
4:40
Speaker 3: been close to having children. Again, Peterson said no. For context,
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Speaker 3: at this point, Lacy Peterson, who is his wife, is
4:51
Speaker 3: approaching eight months pregnant with their first child, a son
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Speaker 3: named Connor. December sixth two thousand and two, a friend
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Speaker 3: of A Sean Sibley, who's actually the person who introduced them,
5:03
Speaker 3: confronts Scott. Scott is sobbing, and he leaves a message
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Speaker 3: on Sibley's voicemail that says, I'm sorry I lied to
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Speaker 3: you earlier. I have been married. It's just too painful
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Speaker 3: for me to talk about. Call me back. They eventually
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Speaker 3: speak later that day. Peterson was sobbing hysterically. The next day,
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Speaker 3: December seventh, Peterson begins looking for a boat.
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Speaker 2: On December eighth, two thousand and two, an Internet search
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Speaker 2: was made on the home laptop with the terms boat
5:35
Speaker 2: plus Ramp plus Pacific and also Boat plus Ramps plus,
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Speaker 2: Watsonville Plus Pacific and San Francisco Bay plus Boat plus Ramp.
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Speaker 2: Websites were accessed related to the Berkeley Marina, Central San
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Speaker 2: Francisco Bay, and Suson Bay and related to nautical charts
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Speaker 2: and this is on the Peterson computer. On the night
6:01
Speaker 2: of December eighth, someone used the home laptop at the
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Speaker 2: Peterson home to access websites for the San Francisco Port,
6:09
Speaker 2: the United States Geological Surveys, velocity maps for currents in
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Speaker 2: central San Francisco Bay, and other sites with navigation and
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Speaker 2: nautical charts. A couple of image files were also viewed,
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Speaker 2: which were linked to web pages on bay currents. The
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Speaker 2: image files showed an enhanced map view of the tip
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Speaker 2: of Brooks Island and surrounding area in the Berkeley Marina.
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Speaker 2: For context, why this matters, Lacy Peterson and her unborn son, Connor's,
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Speaker 2: bodies were found in this very area on December ninth,
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Speaker 2: two thousand and two. Peterson told Frey he lied about
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Speaker 2: being married, and that it was less painful for him
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Speaker 2: to let people think that he was never married rather
6:55
Speaker 2: than to tell them the truth. And the truth he
6:58
Speaker 2: said was that he had quote lost his wife. Peterson
7:03
Speaker 2: explained that the upcoming holidays would be the first without
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Speaker 2: his wife. Fray thanked Peterson for sharing the information with
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Speaker 2: her and asked him if he was sure he was
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Speaker 2: ready for a relationship with her. Peterson replied, quote absolutely.
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Speaker 2: That same day, Peterson paid fourteen hundred dollars cash for
7:27
Speaker 2: a boat.
7:28
Speaker 3: December fifteenth, two thousand and two, Peterson tells Amber he
7:32
Speaker 3: is going on an extended trip. He spoke to her
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Speaker 3: on the nineteenth, the twenty second, and the twenty third.
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Speaker 3: On the twenty fourth, Amber did not hear from him.
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Speaker 3: That is the day that Lacey will disappear. She does
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Speaker 3: hear from him on the next day, the twenty fifth,
7:48
Speaker 3: which is Christmas. Peterson talks to Amber and claims to
7:51
Speaker 3: be in Maine with his family. He will talk to
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Speaker 3: her on the twenty seventh as well. Going back, that
7:56
Speaker 3: was the fifteenth when he said he was going on
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Speaker 3: an extended trip. On December twentieth, Scott purchases a two
8:03
Speaker 3: day fishing license good for two days and two days
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Speaker 3: only December twenty third and December twenty fourth. December twenty third,
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Speaker 3: two thousand and two from five forty five to eight
8:14
Speaker 3: point thirty, Lacey goes to Salon Salon, where her sister
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Speaker 3: Amy Roca works, and Amy gives Scott a haircut. Amy
8:25
Speaker 3: says that Scott mentions plans to play golf in the
8:28
Speaker 3: morning and offers to pick up a gift basket for
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Speaker 3: their father at a store called Vella Farms. Amy tells
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Speaker 3: police that Lacey was wearing tan pants and a black
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Speaker 3: blouse with small flowers.
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Speaker 2: The next day is Christmas Eve. At eight forty am,
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Speaker 2: someone logs onto the Peterson computer in the spare bedroom.
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Speaker 2: The MSN homepage, a weather site from Yahoo, and two
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Speaker 2: Yahoo shopping sites are accessed. One shopping site was for
8:59
Speaker 2: a a red gap scarf and the other at Sunflower
9:04
Speaker 2: umbrella stand. The searches for the umbrellas and scarf were
9:08
Speaker 2: made at eight forty two a m. At eight forty five,
9:13
Speaker 2: Scott wrote an email. When police arrived at the house,
9:18
Speaker 2: they found that the curling iron was plugged in and
9:21
Speaker 2: a bench that Lacey sat on was pulled out. The
9:25
Speaker 2: housekeeper said that the day before they were not like
9:28
Speaker 2: that because the housekeeper had cleaned and recognized that the
9:33
Speaker 2: curling iron and bench were new and that they were
9:35
Speaker 2: pulled out. The searches in This detail, along with a
9:38
Speaker 2: few others, have led some to say that Lacy was
9:41
Speaker 2: clearly alive, as Scott would have needed to be a
9:44
Speaker 2: criminal genius to fake them. However, if Scott killed Lacey,
9:49
Speaker 2: he had been planning it for days, if not longer,
9:52
Speaker 2: and his plan was always to fake a kidnapping attack
9:55
Speaker 2: when he left for his warehouse, as evidenced by his
9:59
Speaker 2: dog wandering the neighborhood with its leash attached to his collar,
10:04
Speaker 2: it would not be surprising at all if Scott took
10:07
Speaker 2: additional quote proof of life steps he could later point
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Speaker 2: to when he told his detailed story to the police
10:13
Speaker 2: about that morning, a story where Lacey was alive and well.
10:17
Speaker 2: When he left, Scott loaded three patio umbrellas from the
10:23
Speaker 2: backyard into the bed of his truck. He was going
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Speaker 2: to store them at his warehouse. However, Scott arrives at
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Speaker 2: the warehouse but does not drop the umbrellas off. Instead,
10:35
Speaker 2: he drove to the warehouse with the umbrellas in the
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Speaker 2: back of his truck, drove with them to the marina,
10:41
Speaker 2: and drove with the umbrellas back to his house. He
10:44
Speaker 2: told the police he forgot to take them out, though
10:48
Speaker 2: in order to attach his boat at the warehouse, which
10:51
Speaker 2: he did to drive to the marina, he would have
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Speaker 2: had to see the umbrellas. Scott checks his voicemail on
10:59
Speaker 2: his side cell phone at ten oh eight am. According
11:03
Speaker 2: to the prosecution, the call pinged the same tower that
11:07
Speaker 2: is calls from home always pinged, indicating that Scott was
11:11
Speaker 2: still at home or near it when this ping happened. However,
11:16
Speaker 2: by the end of the call, the call had changed
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Speaker 2: to the tower near his warehouse, which was only minutes
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Speaker 2: from his house.
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Speaker 3: So Scott leaves ten oh eight at the latest. At
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Speaker 3: ten eighteen some estimates's latest ten thirty, a neighbor finds
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Speaker 3: the family dog, McKenzie, walking around with his lee Shawn.
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Speaker 3: She puts the dog in the backyard. The dog will
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Speaker 3: be found there when Scott returns home with its leash
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Speaker 3: still attached. At ten thirty five. The Medinas, who live
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Speaker 3: in the house across from the Petersons that will be
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Speaker 3: burglarized at some point leave their home for Los Angeles.
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Speaker 3: So they are leaving their home after the dog has
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Speaker 3: already been found with its leash. A witness these people
12:00
Speaker 3: outside the Medina home just before noon. The burglars who
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Speaker 3: robbed the Medina home will be arrested and say they
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Speaker 3: robbed the place at four am on the twenty sixth.
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Speaker 3: They said they saw some TV trucks on the street,
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Speaker 3: so they went in a different entrance. All things considered,
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Speaker 3: they probably robbed the house on the twenty third and
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Speaker 3: lied about it to avoid association with a Peterson murder,
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Speaker 3: though once again significantly, whenever they robbed the house, it
12:27
Speaker 3: would have been after Mackenzie the dog was found wandering
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Speaker 3: the neighborhood with its leash still attached.
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Speaker 2: Scott leaves the warehouse about eleven eighteen am to drive
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Speaker 2: to the Berkeley Marina. This is about an hour and
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Speaker 2: thirty six minute drive. Scott said he felt it was
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Speaker 2: too cold to golf, so he decided to head to
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Speaker 2: the Berkeley Marina to go fishing instead. Of course, this
12:51
Speaker 2: makes it awfully convenient that on the twentieth Scott bought
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Speaker 2: a fishing license for just two days, and this was
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Speaker 2: one of the two days that the license was good for.
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Speaker 2: Scott purchased a boat launch ticket at twelve fifty four
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Speaker 2: PM when he arrived at the Berkeley Marina. From the
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Speaker 2: time he bought that ticket, until the time he left
13:14
Speaker 2: was approximately seventy eight minutes or eighteen minutes less than
13:20
Speaker 2: the time it took him to drive there, so a
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Speaker 2: relatively short amount of time. During that time, Scott motored
13:29
Speaker 2: north for probably two miles. He was near a little
13:33
Speaker 2: island that had a bunch of trash on it. He
13:36
Speaker 2: saw a big sign that said no landing and there
13:39
Speaker 2: were some broken piers fitting Scott's description. The island described
13:45
Speaker 2: turned out to be Brooks Island. Evidence photos show the trash,
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Speaker 2: the peers, and the no landing sign as described by Scott.
13:54
Speaker 2: When the state called an expert to the stand at trial,
13:58
Speaker 2: he stated that based on the current, the bodies would
14:01
Speaker 2: have started their trek to where they were found between
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Speaker 2: Berkeley Marina and Brooks Island. In fact, if the bodies
14:09
Speaker 2: had been dumped in deeper areas of the bay, they
14:13
Speaker 2: would have washed out to sea rather than end up
14:17
Speaker 2: where they were ultimately found.
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Speaker 3: And if Scott did dump the bodies, this was just
14:21
Speaker 3: unlucky for him. He basically dumped the bodies in the
14:23
Speaker 3: one area of this marina where they would end up
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Speaker 3: Washington Shore instead of washing out to see at two twelve,
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Speaker 3: Scott says he leaves the marina. He eventually calls Lacey
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Speaker 3: at home on her cell phone. He leaves the message, Hey, beautiful,
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Speaker 3: I just left you a message at home. It's two fifteen.
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Speaker 3: I'm leaving Berkeley. I won't be able to get to
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Speaker 3: Vella Farms to get the basket for Papa. I was
14:47
Speaker 3: hoping you would get this message and go on out there.
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Speaker 3: I'll see you in a bit, sweetie, Love you bye.
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Speaker 3: This message is unusual, given that, according to Scott, Lacy
14:56
Speaker 3: had no idea he was in Berkeley in the first place.
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Speaker 3: It is, how however, consistent was Scott's plan to make
15:01
Speaker 3: it look like Lacey had been alive when he left
15:04
Speaker 3: for the warehouse that day. On January third, two thousand
15:08
Speaker 3: and three, the burglars are arrested. The police find no
15:13
Speaker 3: evidence of Lacy Peterson. And if you believe that the
15:16
Speaker 3: burglars kidnapped Lacey and Connor and kept Lacey somewhere and
15:21
Speaker 3: then Connor was born later, it would have been very
15:23
Speaker 3: difficult for them, given that January third is only nine
15:26
Speaker 3: ten days after the kidnapping would supposedly have happened. But
15:31
Speaker 3: at no point that very early period of time, do
15:34
Speaker 3: any of the burglars flip on anyone else, say where
15:37
Speaker 3: Lacey's being kept, or really reveal any evidence related to
15:42
Speaker 3: her disappearance. On February tenth, two thousand and three, Connor's
15:46
Speaker 3: due date comes and goes. On April twelve, two thousand
15:50
Speaker 3: and three, there is a heavy storm in San Francisco
15:52
Speaker 3: Bay around the marina, causing higher than normal wave of
15:56
Speaker 3: action in the area. The next day, April thirteen, people
16:00
Speaker 3: walking near the San Francisco Bay find the body of
16:03
Speaker 3: Connor Peterson. One day later, they will find Lacey. The
16:07
Speaker 3: bodies are in the exact area where Scott was fishing.
16:11
Speaker 2: Now, turning to Scott's demeanor, Scott's awfully relaxed during the
16:16
Speaker 2: first interview with the police. For instance, when he's being interviewed,
16:20
Speaker 2: he's drinking coffee from a coffee cup and his hands
16:24
Speaker 2: aren't shaking, which you can see because he's holding that
16:27
Speaker 2: coffee cup. He doesn't have trouble getting it from the
16:30
Speaker 2: table to his mouth, no issues at all. Moreover, he
16:34
Speaker 2: shows no emotion during the press conferences. He never breaks down,
16:39
Speaker 2: He never seems as though he really cares. Now he
16:42
Speaker 2: also doesn't grill the police about what they're doing and
16:45
Speaker 2: whether they have any updates for him about his missing
16:48
Speaker 2: pregnant wife. His non blood relatives are honestly more emotional
16:53
Speaker 2: today than he was at the time of Lacy's disappearance.
16:58
Speaker 2: The night during the search, when Lacey's mother, Sharon approached
17:02
Speaker 2: Scott to give him a hug and comfort him, Scott
17:06
Speaker 2: maneuvered away from her. It seemed to Sharon that he
17:09
Speaker 2: was also avoiding eye contact with her. Likewise, Brent, Lacy's brother,
17:14
Speaker 2: noticed that Scott was off by himself and was reluctant
17:18
Speaker 2: to make eye contact. In fact, Peterson and Brent never
17:23
Speaker 2: spoke that night, even though they had a quote great relationship.
17:29
Speaker 2: Sharon's cousin Gwendolen Kempele, also took note that Scott would
17:34
Speaker 2: not look at her, despite the fact that they had
17:36
Speaker 2: seen each other numerous times at family functions. Lacey's stepfather,
17:41
Speaker 2: Ron Grantski, asked Scott if he had gone golfing that day,
17:46
Speaker 2: as Scott had planned. Now. Peterson paused and then replied
17:51
Speaker 2: that he decided to go fishing instead. After Peterson told
17:55
Speaker 2: grant Sky what time he left to go fishing, Grantsky
17:59
Speaker 2: asked Peterson what he would be fishing for at that
18:02
Speaker 2: time of day. Peterson walked away without responding. Although Peterson
18:07
Speaker 2: told Gransky and the police that he went fishing, Peterson
18:11
Speaker 2: told Charon's cousin Harvey Kemple, that he went golfing that day.
18:16
Speaker 2: Peterson also told neighbors Amy Krigbaum and Tara Vettable that
18:22
Speaker 2: he was golfing that day. Sandy Rickard was standing outside
18:26
Speaker 2: the Covena residence when Peterson approached her. He put up
18:30
Speaker 2: his hands and volunteered, quote, I wouldn't be surprised if
18:35
Speaker 2: they find blood on my truck because I cut my
18:37
Speaker 2: hands all the time. Peterson explained that it was because
18:42
Speaker 2: he was an outdoorsman, or something to that effect, as
18:44
Speaker 2: Rickard recalled, and Rickard found this interaction incredibly perplexing. So
18:51
Speaker 2: in summary, in that one day, Scott tells some people
18:55
Speaker 2: he went fishing, some people he went golfing, and offers
18:57
Speaker 2: this strange comment about finding blood in his truck. Now,
19:01
Speaker 2: let's talk about the boat that he took out that day.
19:04
Speaker 2: The boat was a fourteen foot aluminum fishing boat. That's
19:08
Speaker 2: a Class eight boat, one of the smallest boats you
19:11
Speaker 2: can buy, although it's not impossible to take this kind
19:14
Speaker 2: of boat out into the San Francisco Bay. It would
19:18
Speaker 2: be really dangerous for someone who was not an expert
19:20
Speaker 2: at boating.
19:22
Speaker 3: So let's talk about Scott as a fisherman. Conventional wisdom
19:25
Speaker 3: will tell you that Scott was a terrible fisherman. But
19:28
Speaker 3: he had been fishing before, he had owned a fishing
19:31
Speaker 3: boat before, and he should have known what he was doing.
19:36
Speaker 3: And yet on the day that he supposedly went fishing,
19:38
Speaker 3: everything seemed to go wrong. Scott said that he was
19:41
Speaker 3: taking the boat out to do some sturgeon fishing. The
19:43
Speaker 3: prosecution called an expert fisherman to testify about that. He
19:47
Speaker 3: stated that Scott's rod was not rigged for sturgeon fishing.
19:50
Speaker 3: He was rigged for fresh water pass the line and
19:54
Speaker 3: wait was wrong. The rod was wrong. One of Scott's
19:57
Speaker 3: rodds didn't even have a handle on it and thus
20:00
Speaker 3: wasn't functional. Another rod had no line on it. When
20:03
Speaker 3: the expert reviewed Scott's tackle box, it was filled with
20:05
Speaker 3: equipment to fish for freshwater bass. And remember this is
20:10
Speaker 3: a saltwater marina. Moreover, the anchor would not work in
20:14
Speaker 3: the bay. It was an anchor that Scott had made
20:17
Speaker 3: for himself, but it was too small, and it wouldn't
20:19
Speaker 3: dig into the ground and hold the boat, and there
20:22
Speaker 3: is no long rope in the boat for an anchor. Finally,
20:26
Speaker 3: there's the question of why Scott would go all the
20:28
Speaker 3: way out to San Francisco Bay, more than an hour
20:30
Speaker 3: and a half away. The prosecution put on evidence of
20:33
Speaker 3: at least a dozen places much close to the home
20:36
Speaker 3: in Modesto, where he could have fished, much more suitable
20:39
Speaker 3: for his boat and his tackle than the San Francisco Bay.
20:45
Speaker 3: The bay, however, was the closest saltwater fishery to Scott,
20:49
Speaker 3: though Scott preferred saltwater fishing. One wonders why he had
20:52
Speaker 3: so much fresh water tackle. Alice mentioned Scott's behavior before.
20:58
Speaker 3: We put that in there, because some if you find
21:00
Speaker 3: it very important and some of you don't. But nevertheless,
21:04
Speaker 3: it's not the only strange thing that Scott did. On
21:07
Speaker 3: January eighth, fourteen days after his wife has gone missing
21:13
Speaker 3: and four months before she'll be found, Scott adds the
21:16
Speaker 3: Playboy channel on the family's cable package. Five days later,
21:20
Speaker 3: he decides that isn't doing it for him, drops Playboy
21:23
Speaker 3: and adds the ten ecstasy package instead.
21:27
Speaker 2: Now let's talk about whether Scott was considering running or
21:32
Speaker 2: was it Lacy. The closet in the spare bedroom of
21:37
Speaker 2: the Peterson home was open, and duffel bags appear to
21:40
Speaker 2: have been pulled off the shelf, and one was lying
21:44
Speaker 2: upside down on the floor. During an interview with the police,
21:48
Speaker 2: Scott says that he abandoned his initial plans for the day,
21:52
Speaker 2: which was to play golf because it was too cold. Instead,
21:55
Speaker 2: he decided to go fishing. Now, it's strange that it
21:58
Speaker 2: would be too cold to go golf but not too
22:01
Speaker 2: cold to fish. One of the employees at the harbor
22:05
Speaker 2: testified that hardly anyone came down to the marina because
22:08
Speaker 2: of how cold it was that day. Scott was one
22:12
Speaker 2: of three people there all day, and the employee called
22:16
Speaker 2: it a gray, drizzly, nasty day. And it is interesting
22:20
Speaker 2: that Scott just so happened to have a fishing license
22:22
Speaker 2: for this spontaneous decision, one that he'd bought on December twentieth,
22:28
Speaker 2: that was only good for December twenty third and twenty fourth.
22:31
Speaker 3: Let's talk about Amber Fry some more so. After Amber
22:34
Speaker 3: realizes who Scott is, she calls the police. Amber agrees
22:38
Speaker 3: to cooperate and to record Scott's calls. Scott tells her
22:43
Speaker 3: that he is in Paris. He has an elaborate lie
22:46
Speaker 3: about being in Europe. He talks about fireworks at the
22:49
Speaker 3: Eiffel Tower. In fact, he is at a candlelight vigil
22:53
Speaker 3: for his missing wife while he is talking to Amber.
22:57
Speaker 3: They talked dozens and dozens of times, twenty nine recorded
23:00
Speaker 3: hours of calls. Scott now claims he only talked with
23:04
Speaker 3: Amber to keep her from going public lest it interfere
23:07
Speaker 3: with the investigation in finding Lacey. Scott will eventually it
23:12
Speaker 3: meant to Amber that his wife had disappeared. So one
23:16
Speaker 3: piece of evidence that the police found interesting was a
23:20
Speaker 3: mop that was out. Scott told the police that the
23:24
Speaker 3: reason the mop was out was because Lacey was going
23:27
Speaker 3: to mop the floor that morning. But the maid had
23:30
Speaker 3: been there the day before and she had mopped the
23:34
Speaker 3: entire house, and this led the police to wonder if
23:38
Speaker 3: Scott had something he needed to clean up. Then there's
23:42
Speaker 3: Scott's behavior during the search. One witness testified that he
23:46
Speaker 3: actually followed Scott from the volunteer center during the search.
23:50
Speaker 3: Scott was supposedly going out to search for Lacey. Instead,
23:54
Speaker 3: he went to a mall parking lot and sat for
23:57
Speaker 3: forty five minutes in his vehicle rather than taking part
24:01
Speaker 3: in the search. Multiple witnesses would testify that Scott did
24:05
Speaker 3: not actively participate in the search. Moreover, Scott referred to
24:09
Speaker 3: Lacey in the past tense and television interviews, which some
24:12
Speaker 3: people think is significant. Also, Scott during the search is
24:17
Speaker 3: playing golf all the time, including on the days after
24:21
Speaker 3: his unborn child and wife are found murdered and dumped
24:25
Speaker 3: in the bay. Scott was actually arrested in Tory Pines
24:29
Speaker 3: at the golf course. Police stated that Scott had almost
24:33
Speaker 3: no reaction when told the DNA results came back confirming
24:36
Speaker 3: the entire family had been murdered, and apparently, despite his
24:41
Speaker 3: sudden interest in fishing, it was golfing that he was
24:44
Speaker 3: doing during that time.
24:46
Speaker 2: Now, let's talk about Scott's trips to the marina. Police
24:49
Speaker 2: put a GPS tracker on Scott's car to see where
24:53
Speaker 2: he went, and on at least three occasions before Lacey
24:57
Speaker 2: was found, police tracked Scott to to the Berkeley Marina.
25:01
Speaker 2: While there he would just park and stare out over
25:05
Speaker 2: the water. This is significant to some people because some
25:09
Speaker 2: people will say it's strange that he continually visited a
25:12
Speaker 2: place where Lacey and Connor's bodies were ultimately found. And
25:17
Speaker 2: let's talk about the nursery at the Peterson home. When
25:20
Speaker 2: the police returned to their home in February, Scott had
25:25
Speaker 2: essentially turned the nursery into a storage room, piling a mattress,
25:29
Speaker 2: office chairs, clothing, and other items into it, and some
25:34
Speaker 2: of the items had actually come from his warehouse. And
25:37
Speaker 2: note that February is actually the month of Connor's due date. Now,
25:42
Speaker 2: prosecutors also entered two hairs that they found in a
25:46
Speaker 2: pair of pliers, believed to be Lacey's. It looks and
25:49
Speaker 2: seems identical and was from someone related to Lacey's mom,
25:53
Speaker 2: which is pretty close to definitive. It's not much, but
25:57
Speaker 2: given that Lacey was never in the boat and Scott
26:00
Speaker 2: claimed to have only been in the boat once, it
26:03
Speaker 2: is interesting that they found two hairs that belonged to Lacey.
26:09
Speaker 2: And the police also utilized a cadaver dog, and this
26:13
Speaker 2: police dog actually hit on Lacey's scent at the Berkeley
26:17
Speaker 2: Marina on December twenty eighth, just four days after she disappeared.
26:22
Speaker 3: So let's talk about the anchors. Scott bought his boat
26:25
Speaker 3: without an anchor. He told the police he made one
26:28
Speaker 3: out of concrete in his warehouse. A concrete anchor was
26:32
Speaker 3: found in his boat, though there was no line long
26:35
Speaker 3: enough to use it. Concrete residue was found inside of
26:39
Speaker 3: some buckets in his warehouse. There's also an area where
26:43
Speaker 3: it's obvious the anchors were made. According to the prosecution,
26:47
Speaker 3: there are multiple quote unquote voids or areas of less
26:50
Speaker 3: powder on the surface, indicating that multiple buckets were sitting
26:54
Speaker 3: there making multiple anchors. The prosecution speculated that these anchors
26:59
Speaker 3: were used to weigh down Lacey's body when it was
27:01
Speaker 3: put into the water. The defense attempted to make a
27:05
Speaker 3: big deal of Scott using excess concrete to fill a
27:08
Speaker 3: hole near his drive rather than making multiple anchors, though
27:13
Speaker 3: even if he did that, it's unclear how that's inconsistent
27:16
Speaker 3: with him making multiple anchors, since we don't know exactly
27:18
Speaker 3: how much concrete there was in the beginning. Moreover, the
27:22
Speaker 3: prosecution was ready for this and had an expert in
27:25
Speaker 3: concrete who testified that the concrete near the driveway was
27:28
Speaker 3: not consistent with the concrete used to make the anchor. Rather,
27:33
Speaker 3: it was similar to cement used by Scott to put
27:36
Speaker 3: in a fence post near where the concrete was found,
27:39
Speaker 3: indicating that if Scott used additional concrete on the driveway,
27:44
Speaker 3: it was from the fence post concrete, not the anchor concrete.
27:49
Speaker 3: When Scott was eventually arrested, the police found four cell phones,
27:52
Speaker 3: his brother's ID, camping gear, and fifteen thousand dollars cash
27:56
Speaker 3: in his car. Scott had dyed his hair blonde and
27:59
Speaker 3: grown beard which he also died blonde, and he was
28:03
Speaker 3: hanging out in San Diego, which in fairness was his
28:05
Speaker 3: home but also was close to the border. Let's talk
28:09
Speaker 3: about Lacey's clothes. Scott told police that Lacey was wearing
28:13
Speaker 3: a white blouse and black pants on the day that
28:17
Speaker 3: she disappeared, December twenty fourth, but when Lacey's body was found,
28:23
Speaker 3: she was wearing tan pants, which is what she had
28:27
Speaker 3: been wearing on the twenty third, as well as a
28:30
Speaker 3: maternity bra. The prosecution and defense disputed whether these were
28:34
Speaker 3: these same tan pants that she'd been wearing, and it
28:37
Speaker 3: has often stated that Amy Rocca, Lacey's sister, positively identified
28:41
Speaker 3: pants at the house as the ones Lacey was wearing, however,
28:45
Speaker 3: on the stand, despite many attempts by Mark Garrigos, who
28:49
Speaker 3: was Scott Peterson's lawyer, to get Amy to confirm this,
28:52
Speaker 3: she refused to do so. And although the top Lacey
28:56
Speaker 3: was wearing on the twenty third was found at the house,
29:00
Speaker 3: she had a number of different pairs of tan pants,
29:03
Speaker 3: and it is certainly possible that the tan pants she
29:06
Speaker 3: was found in were the tan pants she was wearing
29:09
Speaker 3: on the twenty third. But what's very important here is
29:12
Speaker 3: whatever happened to the tan pants. The pants Lacey was
29:17
Speaker 3: wearing weren't black, and this becomes very important. Let's talk
29:23
Speaker 3: about people who claim to have seen Lacey. A number
29:27
Speaker 3: of people claim to have seen Lacey walking her dog.
29:30
Speaker 3: For instance, Vivian and Bill Mitchell said that they saw
29:33
Speaker 3: a woman matching Lacey's description walking the dog that morning.
29:38
Speaker 3: Homer and Sue Maldonado said that around ten am they
29:42
Speaker 3: went out driving to deliver Christmas presents and saw a
29:45
Speaker 3: very pregnant lady struggling with a dog. Tawny Fridas says
29:49
Speaker 3: he also saw a pregnant woman walking a dog that morning.
29:52
Speaker 3: Frank Aguilar and his wife also saw a pregnant woman
29:55
Speaker 3: with her dog. Diane Campos was having a cigarette behind
29:59
Speaker 3: the local Hot Spittle. She looked across a creek into
30:02
Speaker 3: a park and saw a pregnant woman walking a dog.
30:05
Speaker 3: She saw two men following this woman. The dog was barking,
30:09
Speaker 3: and the two men said, shut that effing dog up.
30:13
Speaker 3: Then there's Tom Harshman, who said he saw a woman
30:16
Speaker 3: in a red shirt and black pants, fitting Lacy's description,
30:19
Speaker 3: being forced into a van sometime in the afternoon, a
30:22
Speaker 3: couple miles away from the home. He said that she
30:25
Speaker 3: had been squatting and urinating on the side of the road.
30:28
Speaker 3: By the end of this around eleven people say they
30:31
Speaker 3: saw a woman who might be Lacey walking the dog.
30:35
Speaker 3: Nearly all of them described the person they saw as
30:38
Speaker 3: wearing a white blouse and black pants, just as Scott
30:43
Speaker 3: had said, and just as the missing person's posters described.
30:49
Speaker 3: That was all well and good until six months later,
30:52
Speaker 3: when Lacey's body was found and she wasn't wearing black pants.
30:57
Speaker 3: She was wearing tan pants. Moreover, even though there was
31:02
Speaker 3: testimony that Lacy enjoyed getting out and being active, the
31:06
Speaker 3: prosecution put on a number of witnesses that testified that
31:09
Speaker 3: Lacey was having extreme difficulty even walking by the end
31:13
Speaker 3: of her pregnancy, and the doctor had told her to
31:15
Speaker 3: take it easy after she complained of dizziness and exhaustion.
31:19
Speaker 3: They also testified, given this, it is simply not believable
31:23
Speaker 3: that she would have taken the dog on some sort
31:25
Speaker 3: of long, strenuous walk through the park, and that's not
31:30
Speaker 3: just anecdotal. In fact, at the end of October, two
31:35
Speaker 3: months before Lacey disappeared, Lacey had walked to the park
31:40
Speaker 3: and gotten very sick, to the point that she was
31:43
Speaker 3: vomiting and almost passed out. Her mother testified that she
31:47
Speaker 3: was extremely embarrassed because some maintenance men saw her and
31:51
Speaker 3: had to help her and had to end up cleaning
31:53
Speaker 3: up her vomit. After her Lacey talked to her doctor
31:57
Speaker 3: about this event, and the doctor told her that she
32:00
Speaker 3: should either stop walking altogether or do it much later
32:05
Speaker 3: in the day after she'd had an opportunity to get hydrated.
32:09
Speaker 3: In another instance, Lacey's prenatal yoga instructor testified that on
32:15
Speaker 3: December twentieth, Lacey was in so much pain that she
32:18
Speaker 3: could barely walk and that she needed help to get
32:22
Speaker 3: to her car. Furthermore, the shoes Lacey typically used to
32:26
Speaker 3: go on walks were found in the house. Finally, the
32:32
Speaker 3: police did not ignore these sightings. They searched the park,
32:35
Speaker 3: including with canine teams, and found no trace of Lacey.
32:40
Speaker 3: They also interviewed folks in a homeless camp near the park.
32:44
Speaker 3: None of them had seen Lacey.
32:47
Speaker 2: And the defense didn't call any of the witnesses you
32:50
Speaker 2: always hear about. The defense never called a witness who
32:54
Speaker 2: supposedly saw into Scott's boat and said it was empty.
32:58
Speaker 2: The defense also never called witnesses who claimed to have
33:01
Speaker 2: seen Lacey that day, either walking the dog or being
33:05
Speaker 2: forced into the van. Moreover, there was another witness who
33:09
Speaker 2: saw a pregnant woman walking a dog that day, called
33:13
Speaker 2: it into the police, and then, when he was shown
33:16
Speaker 2: a picture of Lacey, said that he was certain the
33:19
Speaker 2: person he saw was not Lacey. Christopher Van Sant testified
33:24
Speaker 2: that he saw pregnant woman walking her dog near the
33:27
Speaker 2: footbridge at Dry Creek Regional Park, near the scene at hospital.
33:31
Speaker 2: This sighting is consistent with many of the other sightings
33:35
Speaker 2: offered by those who believe Scott is innocent, but Sant
33:39
Speaker 2: testified that he is quote one hundred percent positive that
33:43
Speaker 2: the woman was not Lacy Peterson. Following this testimony, the
33:48
Speaker 2: prosecution called four different people, the husband of a pregnant
33:52
Speaker 2: woman and three pregnant women, who testified that they had
33:56
Speaker 2: walked the neighborhood either on that day or around it.
34:00
Speaker 2: One walked a chocolate lab, one a lab mix, one
34:04
Speaker 2: an Australian shepherd, and another one didn't even have a dog.
34:08
Speaker 2: In other words, a lot of pregnant women were walking
34:12
Speaker 2: dogs in the days surrounding Lacey's disappearance in the area.
34:17
Speaker 2: To continue to hammer pome that point, the prosecution called
34:20
Speaker 2: a parade of people who were walking in the park
34:23
Speaker 2: that day, who were walking any number of Golden Retrievers
34:26
Speaker 2: that day, or who were just in the neighborhood that day,
34:30
Speaker 2: none of whom saw anything unusual, and any of whom
34:34
Speaker 2: might have been mistaken by someone for Lacey.
34:38
Speaker 3: So when the bodies were found, Lacey's body was in
34:40
Speaker 3: pretty bad shape, with barnacles growing on her bones. The
34:45
Speaker 3: forensic anthropologist Alison Galloway testified that her level of decomposition
34:50
Speaker 3: was consistent with being in the San Francisco Bay for
34:53
Speaker 3: three to six months. Connor was less decomposed. The difference
34:58
Speaker 3: in decomposition has led but some to speculate that Connor
35:01
Speaker 3: was born somewhere else and then the bodies were dumped separately.
35:06
Speaker 3: This of course would have meant that Scott is innocent,
35:09
Speaker 3: but the autopsy does not support that argument. There was
35:12
Speaker 3: no vaginal birth. The autopsy confirmed that Lacy's birth canal
35:16
Speaker 3: remained closed. In fact, there also wasn't something called coffin
35:20
Speaker 3: birth in this case, which is what happens when a
35:23
Speaker 3: baby is expelled from a decomposing body. Moreover, there was
35:28
Speaker 3: no evidence of a sea section. Although Lacey's entire body
35:32
Speaker 3: was not recovered, the trunk of her body was, and
35:36
Speaker 3: had there been a sea section, there would have been
35:39
Speaker 3: evidence of it. What actually happened is that at some
35:41
Speaker 3: point during decomposition, the body was expelled from the top
35:45
Speaker 3: of the uterus and out of the body. Some have
35:48
Speaker 3: suggested that if Connor remained inside Lacey's body for some
35:51
Speaker 3: time after death, it should show tailtale signs of degeneration,
35:56
Speaker 3: often seen in babies that are miscarried, and in fact,
36:00
Speaker 3: Connor's body did show those signs. The process is called maceration.
36:07
Speaker 3: The pathologists testified. We'll even use the term maceration in
36:11
Speaker 3: a hospital pathology where we're looking at the still birth
36:14
Speaker 3: in a baby that's died in the uterus and then
36:17
Speaker 3: perhaps is delivered a day or two or three or
36:20
Speaker 3: more later, will undergo the same type of changes, not
36:25
Speaker 3: to the degree that we see in Connor, but maceration
36:28
Speaker 3: type changes anyway, in a fresh or stilborn those will
36:32
Speaker 3: often involve skin changes overriding the school plates and to
36:36
Speaker 3: a certain degree, lucuefication of the organs. So we'll see
36:39
Speaker 3: that in a hospital setting two, and that's where the
36:41
Speaker 3: term maceration would be used. Although Connor suffered from this
36:47
Speaker 3: kind of effect, and did so far worse than your
36:50
Speaker 3: average still birth, he was still protected from the worst
36:54
Speaker 3: of the elements in the bay, including predators. Thus, because
36:59
Speaker 3: it took a while for the baby to be expelled,
37:01
Speaker 3: Connor's body was protected from degradation to an extent greater
37:05
Speaker 3: than Lacy. In fact, doctor Galley would testify that Connor's
37:08
Speaker 3: body had been exposed in the bay for no more
37:11
Speaker 3: than one to two days at the most. A quarter
37:15
Speaker 3: inch of Connor's umbilical cord was still attached, and it
37:18
Speaker 3: was torn, not cut. There's no evidence that the umbellical
37:22
Speaker 3: cord was knotted or clamped, which, if Connor had been
37:26
Speaker 3: born alive, would lead to the baby bleeding to death.
37:31
Speaker 3: Some people pointed to some trash or twine that was
37:34
Speaker 3: wrapped around his throat as a possible means of killing him,
37:37
Speaker 3: but there was no damage from the twine, and it
37:41
Speaker 3: had about an inch of slack. It wasn't tight around
37:44
Speaker 3: his neck. Moreover, leaving the twine would be a pretty
37:48
Speaker 3: stupid thing to do if that's how you killed Connor.
37:51
Speaker 3: But you're going to dump him in the bay to
37:53
Speaker 3: try and frame Scott Peterson.
37:55
Speaker 2: And let's tell we've talked a lot about Connor, but
37:57
Speaker 2: let's talk about the age of the baby. Now. Lacey
38:00
Speaker 2: was due on February tenth, two thousand three. She disappeared
38:04
Speaker 2: and likely died on December twenty third, about seven weeks
38:09
Speaker 2: from the due date. So one would expect then that
38:12
Speaker 2: the baby was probably between thirty one and thirty five
38:16
Speaker 2: weeks gestational age when he died, given that due dates
38:21
Speaker 2: are not an exact science. According to the pathologists, the
38:25
Speaker 2: gestational age of Connor was between thirty three and thirty
38:29
Speaker 2: eight weeks. On cross examination, the defense attempted to push
38:33
Speaker 2: this number higher to thirty five weeks, to further the
38:37
Speaker 2: defense's theory that Lacey was kidnapped and held somewhere for
38:41
Speaker 2: some period of time alive, and therefore Connor was alive
38:44
Speaker 2: as well. The pathologists did not bend on this, repeatedly
38:49
Speaker 2: explaining to the defense attorney that given the science and
38:52
Speaker 2: the varying development of unborn children, thirty three to thirty
38:56
Speaker 2: eight was the best range. Another petthidlogist, doctor DeVore, determined
39:02
Speaker 2: that Connor died between the twenty first and the twenty
39:05
Speaker 2: fourth of December, which is a much more precise date.
39:10
Speaker 2: The defense called an expert who testified that the earliest
39:13
Speaker 2: Connor could have died was December twenty ninth. Just on
39:18
Speaker 2: the face of things, this testimony seems far fetched that
39:22
Speaker 2: the doctor could say with certainty that a body in
39:25
Speaker 2: the water for four months died without question no earlier
39:29
Speaker 2: than December twenty ninth does not seem medically feasible. Cross
39:33
Speaker 2: examination bore out this point. The prosecution was able to
39:39
Speaker 2: unnerve the doctor, who admitted that his entire calculation was
39:43
Speaker 2: based on the assumption that Lacy found out she was
39:45
Speaker 2: pregnant on June ninth and immediately told her friends, a
39:49
Speaker 2: fact that was actually disputed by those who knew her.
39:53
Speaker 2: If she found out before June ninth and only told
39:56
Speaker 2: her friends, then his whole theory fell a part. Given
40:01
Speaker 2: that we are talking a matter of days here, the
40:04
Speaker 2: notion that the doctor who was not a forensic pathologist
40:07
Speaker 2: could determine with such certainty that Connor could not have
40:11
Speaker 2: died a mere five days before his earliest estimate just
40:15
Speaker 2: falls flat. And let's talk about where the bodies were found.
40:20
Speaker 2: As the prosecution repeatedly stated, the bodies of Connor and
40:24
Speaker 2: Lacy were found exactly where Scott was supposedly fishing. As
40:28
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, the prosecution put on evidence that,
40:31
Speaker 2: given where the bodies ended up and the currents in
40:34
Speaker 2: the area, the probable dumping spot for the bodies was
40:37
Speaker 2: just off Brooks Island.
40:40
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of evidence there about what happened.
40:43
Speaker 3: And as we've said before, this is a circumstantial case.
40:46
Speaker 3: There's not going to be an eyewitness, there's not going
40:48
Speaker 3: to be a slam dung. Once you have are a
40:50
Speaker 3: bunch of different bricks that you are building a case with.
40:55
Speaker 3: But the most significant point is the one that Alice
41:00
Speaker 3: just made where the bodies were found. The bodies were
41:04
Speaker 3: found in the place that Scott Peterson had gone fishing
41:10
Speaker 3: that day. Now, people who don't think it was Scott
41:14
Speaker 3: suggests that someone else kidnapped Lacey. Maybe it was the burglars,
41:19
Speaker 3: Maybe it was a satanic cult of pregnant women snatchers,
41:22
Speaker 3: Maybe it was someone looking to harvest organs. The theory
41:26
Speaker 3: goes that Lacey was kidnapped, kept somewhere until Connor was born,
41:31
Speaker 3: then both were murdered. At this point, the police had
41:34
Speaker 3: announced that they were looking in Berkeley Marina because that
41:37
Speaker 3: was the place Scott had been. Knowing that the police
41:40
Speaker 3: were looking there, the kidnappers hatch a daring plot to
41:44
Speaker 3: dump the bodies in exactly the same place Scott had
41:48
Speaker 3: been fishing the day of the disappearance. And this is
41:52
Speaker 3: a point that people grasp onto because you have to
41:57
Speaker 3: this isn't a coincidence. It's not a coincidence that the
42:00
Speaker 3: bodies were found an hour and a half away. One
42:03
Speaker 3: of two things is true. Either Scott dumped them there,
42:06
Speaker 3: or someone looking to frame Scott dump them there. And
42:10
Speaker 3: oftentimes people will just say, well, the police said it
42:13
Speaker 3: was Berkeley Marinas, a somebody probably just dumped them there,
42:16
Speaker 3: and people just go with that, and they don't stop
42:18
Speaker 3: to examine what would have to be true for that
42:22
Speaker 3: to be true. And here's the thing that didn't happen.
42:29
Speaker 3: No one kept Lacy alive for four months and then
42:33
Speaker 3: dumped her body in the bay. First, there's no evidence
42:36
Speaker 3: for it whatsoever. There are no credible sidings of Lacey
42:40
Speaker 3: on December twenty fourth. None of the sidings of a
42:42
Speaker 3: pregnant woman that day matched Lacy, nor are they consistent
42:47
Speaker 3: with the physical limitations Lacey was having. Eyewitness accounts are
42:51
Speaker 3: notoriously unreliable, and they are the first thing that innocence
42:56
Speaker 3: advocates attack when attempting to overturn a conviction that is
43:00
Speaker 3: actually faulty. To rely on them here, given all we know,
43:03
Speaker 3: is questionable at best. But there's more. As to the burglars,
43:09
Speaker 3: they could not have shown up until after the dog
43:12
Speaker 3: was found wandering with her leash, meaning that the theory
43:17
Speaker 3: that Lacey confronted them after her walk with the dog
43:20
Speaker 3: is impossible. Moreover, there is no evidence Lacey was kidnapped.
43:25
Speaker 3: There are no signs of struggle. No one saw Lacey
43:29
Speaker 3: being kidnapped. One of The chief arguments against Scott being
43:32
Speaker 3: responsible for Lacey's murder is that he would have had
43:35
Speaker 3: to have gotten her body into his truck with no
43:38
Speaker 3: one noticing. But what's more likely that Scott could kill
43:42
Speaker 3: Lacey in the privacy of his home and maneuver her
43:45
Speaker 3: into the truck, which he also happens to be loading
43:48
Speaker 3: with large umbrellas that would conceal her. Or that a
43:52
Speaker 3: gang of organ harvesters, burglars or Satanists snatched Lacey in
43:56
Speaker 3: broad daylight while she was walking her dog doesn't end there.
44:01
Speaker 3: You'd have to believe that no one has ever come
44:05
Speaker 3: forward stating that they saw a captive, pregnant lady in
44:09
Speaker 3: the months she would have been held. No one has
44:12
Speaker 3: ever flipped on the kidnappers. There is not a hint
44:15
Speaker 3: of anything like this happening, and its smacks of conspiracy.
44:20
Speaker 3: And still that's not the end of the problems with
44:23
Speaker 3: this theory. The theory that someone would frame Scott by
44:26
Speaker 3: dumping the bodies falls apart upon even the barest scrutiny.
44:30
Speaker 3: It is one thing to dump a body on a cold,
44:34
Speaker 3: rainy Christmas Eve when no one is out. It is
44:37
Speaker 3: another thing altogether to dump a body in a bay
44:40
Speaker 3: that is being constantly searched by police and is the
44:43
Speaker 3: center of media and public attention, and even Scott Peterson
44:47
Speaker 3: is there watching the bay at various times. Moreover, for
44:52
Speaker 3: this planned work, the kidnappers would need to dump the
44:54
Speaker 3: bodies in such a way that they would decompose sufficiently
44:58
Speaker 3: to not give the game away. If the bodies were
45:01
Speaker 3: found too soon, then it would be evident that they
45:04
Speaker 3: had been killed. Much later, the means of death would
45:07
Speaker 3: be easily determinable, and they would need to do so
45:10
Speaker 3: by dumping the bodies in the one area that would
45:12
Speaker 3: be consistent with Scott's guilt. Dump them in an area
45:15
Speaker 3: that was too deep and the bodies would be swept away.
45:19
Speaker 3: Dump them in an area that's too shallow, and they
45:21
Speaker 3: might be found by the constant searches by the police,
45:24
Speaker 3: leaving you open to forensic evidence that would convict you.
45:27
Speaker 3: Dump them in an area other than Brooks Island, and
45:30
Speaker 3: the tides would have taken them somewhere else, somewhere that
45:33
Speaker 3: an expert could trace back to a place that Scott
45:36
Speaker 3: could argue he'd never been during his very short trip out.
45:40
Speaker 3: The kidnappers would be taking enormous risks, all in the
45:44
Speaker 3: hopes that enough time would pass before the bodies washed up,
45:47
Speaker 3: if they ever washed up at all, to convince the
45:50
Speaker 3: police that Lacy and Connor had been killed months before,
45:53
Speaker 3: just around the time that Scott was at the marina.
45:57
Speaker 3: And yet with all the focus and attention on Scott
46:00
Speaker 3: and none on them, much simpler to bury the bodies
46:04
Speaker 3: in the desert and never worry about it again. But somehow,
46:07
Speaker 3: according to this theory, the kidnappers pulled all this off
46:10
Speaker 3: without anyone seeing them or suspecting any different, fooling the
46:14
Speaker 3: state's forensic pathologist, and having gotten away with this plot
46:17
Speaker 3: to this day with a single person involved ever saying
46:22
Speaker 3: a word. That is what you must believe in order
46:26
Speaker 3: to believe Scott is innocent. Put aside the sidings of Lacy,
46:30
Speaker 3: the condition of her body, whatever else it is. It
46:32
Speaker 3: makes you think Scott is innocent. Unless you can show
46:35
Speaker 3: that a gang of criminals managed to pull all that
46:38
Speaker 3: we described off, Scott is guilty. That is the conspiracy
46:44
Speaker 3: that has to be true for someone else to be involved.
46:48
Speaker 3: Or maybe instead a man who routinely cheated on his
46:53
Speaker 3: wife was finally facing up to the enormity of having
46:57
Speaker 3: a child and being forced to be forever tied down,
47:01
Speaker 3: and he decided the easiest thing was just to take
47:04
Speaker 3: care of both problems once and for all.
47:08
Speaker 2: And that, folks, is how you do a closing argument.
47:12
Speaker 3: Boom.
47:14
Speaker 2: I can't believe we got through that. It was so hard.
47:17
Speaker 3: That was dedication.
47:19
Speaker 2: It was really hard not to talk about our feelings.
47:23
Speaker 3: I know, and put myself in other people's shoes. Do
47:25
Speaker 3: you do all the things that irritate people?
47:27
Speaker 2: But you know, look, okay, so there you go. Guys.
47:29
Speaker 2: You have all the evidence right there if you want
47:32
Speaker 2: to hear the reasoning behind all that and listen to
47:35
Speaker 2: the multi part episodes that we have. But we've tried
47:38
Speaker 2: to compile all the evidence here for you.
47:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I just want people to be armed,
47:43
Speaker 3: because look, there's a fifty to fifty chance Scott's going
47:46
Speaker 3: to get a new trial. We're going to cover that
47:49
Speaker 3: on legal briefs. I don't want to do that tonight,
47:51
Speaker 3: but we'll cover everything that's going on with jury, ms
47:54
Speaker 3: conduct or whatnot. If it gets a new trial, we're
47:56
Speaker 3: gonna have to go through this circus all again. Let's
47:58
Speaker 3: hope that doesn't happen.
47:59
Speaker 2: For the sake of Lacy and her family. I hope
48:02
Speaker 2: that is not the case, because we've said this time
48:05
Speaker 2: and again, this is circumstantial. That does not affect the
48:09
Speaker 2: weight of the evidence. Circumstantial evidence is just as weighty
48:13
Speaker 2: as direct evidence. We do not have anyone who saw
48:16
Speaker 2: him dump Lacy overboard that we know to be true,
48:20
Speaker 2: and most cases like this you don't have that because
48:24
Speaker 2: if you did, there probably wouldn't be a trial and
48:26
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have taken long to figure out who it was.
48:29
Speaker 2: But this is circumstantial, and that is fine with respect
48:33
Speaker 2: to the weight of the evidence. And there is so
48:35
Speaker 2: much circumstantial evidence in this case. Take away the word
48:39
Speaker 2: circumstantial if that SIT's funny with you, because you've been
48:41
Speaker 2: told before that circumstantial evidence is not as good it is.
48:45
Speaker 2: It is just as good. There is so much evidence
48:48
Speaker 2: in this case. We spoke at lightning speed, taking out
48:52
Speaker 2: all our opinions and all explanation to fit it into
48:55
Speaker 2: one hour, which is so much evidence. And that's why
48:59
Speaker 2: the tri I'll spend for so long. And that's why
49:02
Speaker 2: our previous episodes explaining this case was also a multi part.
49:05
Speaker 3: And I just want to say now that we've finished,
49:08
Speaker 3: and we've got time and we can like extemporize. You know,
49:12
Speaker 3: I understand the desire not to look at Scott's behavior
49:18
Speaker 3: because it's almost like you don't want to prejudice yourself.
49:20
Speaker 3: I understand that we have rules in the law about evidence,
49:23
Speaker 3: about what you can admit to keep people from being prejudiced,
49:26
Speaker 3: to keep people focused on the actual evidence. So I
49:28
Speaker 3: totally get that. But the simple fact of the matter,
49:32
Speaker 3: if you look at most family annihilators, a lot of
49:35
Speaker 3: them are having affairs, a lot of them are in
49:38
Speaker 3: very similar places to Scott. I mean, if you look
49:43
Speaker 3: at Chris Wats, Chris Watts and Scott Peterson are almost
49:45
Speaker 3: the same person. Chris Wats did almost the exact same thing.
49:49
Speaker 3: He strangles his wife, probably he loads their body into
49:52
Speaker 3: the back of his truck. It's just instead of it
49:55
Speaker 3: being two thousand and two, was much later, and his
49:57
Speaker 3: next door neighbor had a ring camera, and so you
49:59
Speaker 3: may basically caught him doing this on camera. And if
50:02
Speaker 3: you've seen the documentary, you see you see the way
50:05
Speaker 3: Chris Watts is reacting. And the thing is with Chris Watts,
50:08
Speaker 3: nobody says, well, how he's acting is completely relevant no,
50:12
Speaker 3: you do the much more human thing if you watch
50:14
Speaker 3: him and you're like, that is not how somebody acts
50:16
Speaker 3: when their love of their life is missing. He clearly
50:19
Speaker 3: is guilty, and sure enough he was Scott Peterson. People
50:22
Speaker 3: want to hand wave it away. They want to say, oh,
50:25
Speaker 3: you know, it doesn't matter he was having an affair,
50:27
Speaker 3: and it doesn't matter that he was a terrible person.
50:29
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter how he acted after she went missing.
50:31
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter that he got all the porn channels.
50:33
Speaker 3: But it does. That speaks to the circumstances surrounding the case. Now,
50:38
Speaker 3: is it the strongest evidence against him. No, the strongest
50:41
Speaker 3: evidence against him is that his wife's body showed up
50:44
Speaker 3: an hour and a half away from her house where
50:46
Speaker 3: he just so happened to have been fishing on the
50:48
Speaker 3: day she went missing. Come on, people like, it doesn't
50:52
Speaker 3: take a rocket sigence on the day he.
50:54
Speaker 2: Went fishing, when he had the night before said he
50:57
Speaker 2: was going to go golfing and this was supposed to
50:59
Speaker 2: be a sponge taneous trip to fishing, when he had
51:02
Speaker 2: bought the license for that specific day many days previously,
51:05
Speaker 2: and then later that day at a vigil, told some
51:09
Speaker 2: people he went fishing, told some people he went golfing,
51:12
Speaker 2: and know.
51:13
Speaker 3: By the way, before he even bought those licenses, he
51:16
Speaker 3: was looking at the currents at that very place that
51:20
Speaker 3: he ended up on the day she disappeared. And I'm sorry,
51:24
Speaker 3: and I just go back to what we said earlier.
51:27
Speaker 3: The problem for Scott Peterson defenders in this case, I
51:30
Speaker 3: don't want to hear about who saw her walking the dog. Okay,
51:35
Speaker 3: we've explained why that's not relevant.
51:37
Speaker 2: Well, let's just summarize it for maybe people who didn't
51:40
Speaker 2: quite see all the different parts. Basically, there is absolutely
51:44
Speaker 2: no evidence that anyone saw Lacey walking a dog. There's
51:48
Speaker 2: evidence that people saw someone who looked pregnant walking a dog,
51:54
Speaker 2: but that person or those people were not wearing what
51:57
Speaker 2: Lacy was wearing when she was found.
51:59
Speaker 3: And that's huge, It's absolutely huge. And most of these
52:03
Speaker 3: people didn't know her. You know, some people believe, well,
52:05
Speaker 3: there was one person who did well, they went to
52:08
Speaker 3: the same doctor. That's how they knew her. That they
52:10
Speaker 3: weren't like best friends. Also, once again, you can point
52:15
Speaker 3: to this stuff all day long, but what you have
52:18
Speaker 3: to do you have to show that someone dumped those
52:21
Speaker 3: bodies in that marina to frame Scott, and that is
52:25
Speaker 3: just absurd. It is absurd to believe that Lacy was
52:28
Speaker 3: kept alive. She obviously wasn't. I mean, there are barnacles
52:31
Speaker 3: on her bones, for goodness sake. She had been in
52:34
Speaker 3: that marina for a very long time, and Connor had
52:39
Speaker 3: been inside of her most of the time. And we
52:41
Speaker 3: know that because of what they the condition of his body,
52:45
Speaker 3: and people say, well, but he was so well protected. No, no, look,
52:48
Speaker 3: he was more protected than Lacey, whose body was in
52:51
Speaker 3: terrible shape, who had been ravaged by the elements and
52:55
Speaker 3: animals and everything else. The pathologist even testified that really,
52:59
Speaker 3: one more day in Connor's body probably would have been
53:02
Speaker 3: never found. The predators would have taken care of it.
53:05
Speaker 3: He was in the water for a couple of days
53:07
Speaker 3: at most. His body was not in good shape. It
53:09
Speaker 3: was in really bad shape. It's one of the reasons
53:12
Speaker 3: that figuring out exactly how old he was is hard
53:14
Speaker 3: because one of the things you do as you look
53:15
Speaker 3: at bones and a lot of his body he had
53:17
Speaker 3: kind of liquefied by this point. It was just really hard.
53:21
Speaker 2: And by the way, you know, we've talked about how
53:22
Speaker 2: this is a circumstantial case. What Brett just said there
53:25
Speaker 2: is so important. A day longer and Connor may never
53:29
Speaker 2: have been found, and Lacy maybe would have been found
53:31
Speaker 2: much much later, even more decomposed, and we would not
53:34
Speaker 2: have been able to know as much as we already
53:36
Speaker 2: do about the gestational age about lack of a coffin
53:40
Speaker 2: birth or c section. So the fact that this is
53:43
Speaker 2: a circumstantial case is actually it's more than a circumstantial case.
53:47
Speaker 2: The fact that Connor and Lacey were found in conditions
53:50
Speaker 2: that could even be examined by a pathologist strengthens this
53:54
Speaker 2: case so immensely. It was terrible luck for Scott Peterson
53:58
Speaker 2: that Connor's body was found, because we know so much
54:02
Speaker 2: more about the time frame and also when gestationally he
54:07
Speaker 2: was when he passed away, because his mother passed away.
54:10
Speaker 2: And so just know that the facts in this case
54:12
Speaker 2: really are so incredibly strong. This case could have been
54:16
Speaker 2: tried without their bodies. It absolutely could have the fact
54:19
Speaker 2: that their bodies were found and they were able to
54:21
Speaker 2: try the case with the pathology information from their bodies,
54:26
Speaker 2: it's overwhelming how strong this case is.
54:30
Speaker 3: And that's why Scott's out there staring out over the
54:32
Speaker 3: bay because he knows his entire future depends on those
54:37
Speaker 3: bodies not being found. You know, he'd weigh them down.
54:41
Speaker 3: He hoped they would never be found. But you had
54:43
Speaker 3: that storm the day before they were found, and that
54:47
Speaker 3: that's when it happened. That's when the body separated from
54:51
Speaker 3: the weights. It's when the body of Connor was expelled
54:56
Speaker 3: from his mother. And then the bodies turned up two
54:59
Speaker 3: days later, and once again Scott Peterson most unlucky man
55:04
Speaker 3: in the world. Basically, if he had put the bodies
55:07
Speaker 3: anywhere else in the bay, the tidal action would have
55:10
Speaker 3: carried them out to sea. But because he put them
55:13
Speaker 3: where he did, in a shallower area, that's why the
55:18
Speaker 3: bodies watched up where they did.
55:19
Speaker 2: And by the way, he may have done that because
55:21
Speaker 2: he had remember kind of a terrible boat. He had
55:24
Speaker 2: a Class A boat. This was not a good boat
55:27
Speaker 2: to have in a very windy, very tumultuous bay. The
55:31
Speaker 2: San Francisco Bay is not easy sailing at all. So
55:34
Speaker 2: he had a small boat. He couldn't actually venture much
55:37
Speaker 2: further out. And you know why he had a smaller
55:39
Speaker 2: boat that he just bought, because he really only had
55:41
Speaker 2: one purpose for this boat. This was not so that
55:43
Speaker 2: he could regularly go out into the San Francisco Bay
55:46
Speaker 2: and fish with his by the way ill equipped anchor
55:50
Speaker 2: and fishing gear. So the reason this is a bad
55:55
Speaker 2: boat is that he only needed a good enough boat
55:57
Speaker 2: to accomplish this task, not to fuel him his hobby
56:00
Speaker 2: in the San Francisco Bay.
56:02
Speaker 3: Well, we could ran about this for another five episodes,
56:04
Speaker 3: as we've done in the past.
56:06
Speaker 2: We won't. We'll stop here. We won't.
56:08
Speaker 3: We'll stop here. And look, if you think Scott Peterson's innocent,
56:11
Speaker 3: I would love to hear it. I would love to
56:13
Speaker 3: hear your argument for how he's innocent. I would love
56:15
Speaker 3: to hear argument for the whole how the whole conspiracy
56:18
Speaker 3: to dump the body thing went down and nobody noticed,
56:22
Speaker 3: how the inept burglars who got arrested ten days after
56:26
Speaker 3: the burglary, nevertheless somehow managed to keep Lacey's body for
56:30
Speaker 3: another three months until they dumped the body somewhere. I mean,
56:34
Speaker 3: I would just I would love to hear it. And
56:36
Speaker 3: maybe that's what you think happened. And I'll just say
56:40
Speaker 3: true crime. The great thing about true crime is, at
56:42
Speaker 3: the end of the day, it really just comes down
56:43
Speaker 3: to evidence. In facts. It doesn't matter what you think
56:45
Speaker 3: of us. It doesn't matter what you think of Scott Peterson.
56:48
Speaker 3: Either either the fact show he did it or they don't.
56:52
Speaker 3: And when you look at the facts here, I just I,
56:56
Speaker 3: like I said, when we did the first six episodes,
56:58
Speaker 3: I didn't know going in whether he was guilty or not.
57:00
Speaker 3: I just knew that everybody said he was guilty. We
57:04
Speaker 3: have really just skimmed the surface. Read the transcripts. We
57:08
Speaker 3: will put links up where you can read the transcripts
57:11
Speaker 3: of these testimonies. Read the transcripts of the pathologists. Their
57:15
Speaker 3: testimony is absolutely damning to any theory that those bodies
57:21
Speaker 3: weren't in that bay for multiple months, Absolutely damning. Read
57:25
Speaker 3: the whole thing. We quoted some of it. Read the
57:26
Speaker 3: whole thing, and I just don't think you can read
57:30
Speaker 3: the testimony and not see the truth here. And the
57:35
Speaker 3: problem with this case is because it is circumstantial, and
57:40
Speaker 3: you every little brick being built into every little brick.
57:43
Speaker 3: Unless you really dig down into it and really look
57:45
Speaker 3: at the evidence, it can be easy to be misled
57:48
Speaker 3: into believing there's no evidence. It's one reason we wanted
57:51
Speaker 3: to do this today, kind of do the reading for you.
57:53
Speaker 3: But nevertheless, if you got time and you're really curious,
57:56
Speaker 3: we're gonna put the links on the website. Check it out,
57:58
Speaker 3: but I want to hear what you think. Shoot us
58:00
Speaker 3: an email Prosecutorspod at gmail dot com, at Prosecutor's Pod
58:04
Speaker 3: on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. Hello to you guys watching this
58:08
Speaker 3: on YouTube, and hello to awesome people on the Patreon
58:13
Speaker 3: you were listening early and add free and join us
58:16
Speaker 3: on the gallery, which is on the facebooks where we
58:18
Speaker 3: hang out a lot. I'm sure people will be talking
58:21
Speaker 3: about this case on there. Like I said, this case
58:25
Speaker 3: will continue to develop. There will be follow ups on
58:27
Speaker 3: this as the judge decides whether or not to give
58:31
Speaker 3: him a new trial. Obviously, if a new trial is granted,
58:34
Speaker 3: that will be appealed, and if it's not granted, it
58:36
Speaker 3: will be appealed. So this won't end in December, but
58:39
Speaker 3: it'll be the first step into figuring out whether or
58:42
Speaker 3: not its Scott Peterson is actually going to get a
58:44
Speaker 3: new trial or not. But I will say the same
58:46
Speaker 3: thing I said at the end of our last six episodes.
58:49
Speaker 3: If he's tried again, he will be convicted again because
58:52
Speaker 3: the evidence against him is overwhelming.
58:54
Speaker 2: Indeed, thank you guys for joining us. We'll see how
58:57
Speaker 2: people like this and if we need to do this
58:59
Speaker 2: for some of our lower series.
59:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we promise not to recycle everything. We're not
59:06
Speaker 3: going to just do that to you. But hey, you know,
59:09
Speaker 3: we are very long winded. So if there are cases
59:11
Speaker 3: you'd like us to do I follow up on, we're
59:13
Speaker 3: really kind of drill down. We can do that. Well, guys,
59:16
Speaker 3: we will be back next week with a case that
59:19
Speaker 3: has been one of the most recommended cases, one of
59:24
Speaker 3: the most requested cases that we have, and I'm really
59:27
Speaker 3: excited to dig into that. It's a case that needs
59:30
Speaker 3: all the attention you can get. But until then, I'm
59:36
Speaker 3: Brett and I'm Alice, and we are the prosecutors. So
1:00:03
Speaker 3: we want to do this all in one episode. Okay, Okay,
1:00:06
Speaker 3: I have tried to limit it as much as possible,
1:00:08
Speaker 3: but it's still eleven page.
1:00:10
Speaker 2: Peterson is guilt and we're not gonna get through this
1:00:12
Speaker 2: in one episode.
1:00:14
Speaker 3: So that's the whole point is to do it in
1:00:16
Speaker 3: one episode. Okay, We've already six episodes on it.
1:00:19
Speaker 2: Okay, so no extrip, We're just going straight with the script.
1:00:22
Speaker 2: I got it.
1:00:22
Speaker 3: Basically, that's what we got.
1:00:24
Speaker 2: To do it.
1:00:24
Speaker 3: We got it.
1:00:25
Speaker 1: I love it.
1:00:25
Speaker 2: I love going straight with the script. I'm all because
1:00:28
Speaker 2: you know what I'm gonna do after we're finished, I'm
1:00:30
Speaker 2: gonna go wash me a Hallmark Christmas.
1:01:36
Speaker 3: And it's time to see where they or out. We
1:01:38
Speaker 3: can pull this off.
1:01:40
Speaker 2: I don't think we can, but let's do it.
1:01:43
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, are you ready?
1:01:50
Speaker 2: I'm so ready. I've been ready for her. I've been
1:01:53
Speaker 2: podcasting for forty five minutes ago, and
1:02:04
Speaker 3: They have a less basting, less