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What happens when you die without a will? · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
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  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
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  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
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  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
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  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Tod Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome, Todd,
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  Speaker 2: How are you today? I'm good in you, I'm great. Thanks.
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  Speaker 2: What do you have for us this week?
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  Speaker 3: I've got two cases Florida Appellet court case and we're
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: going to head over to Ohio again, homestake gotta love
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  Speaker 3: it all right, This one is about, you know, is
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  Speaker 3: there a lost will or is there no will? Obviously,
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  Speaker 3: the point here is not that The point here is
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  Speaker 3: that planning was done really badly. But we'll talk about that.
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  Speaker 3: And basically in this case, you know, there's an individual
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  Speaker 3: who had no surviving spouse or no children and tried
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  Speaker 3: to leave everything to a friend, Jonathan, and we'll see
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  Speaker 3: how that didn't play out so well, and the noticing
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  Speaker 3: things that have to happen when you have no will
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  Speaker 3: or a lost will, and what are the different results
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  Speaker 3: when you are contesting it that way. Then we're going
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  Speaker 3: to go to Ohio and we're going to talk about
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  Speaker 3: finally one where planning really works. And it was basically
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  Speaker 3: two people, Robin and Kathy, that were longtime romantic partners,
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  Speaker 3: and they did one did revocable trust planning, and then
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  Speaker 3: Kathy tried to be a little manipulative. But we'll see
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  Speaker 3: how the Trust Act actually does its job, which is
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  Speaker 3: nice to see because planning works. Speaking of trust doing
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  Speaker 3: their jobs, this is the end of the month, folks,
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  Speaker 3: and it's the last chance to get the guide on
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  Speaker 3: the power of irrevocable Medicaid trusts. It really is designed
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  Speaker 3: with you know, thirty years of questions and answers, most
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  Speaker 3: income tax returns. Everything you can think of on how
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  Speaker 3: these trusts work they is in this guide and in
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: a question answer format. It will help you determine once
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  Speaker 3: and for all whether or not an irrevocable trust is
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: right for you for medicaid planning purposes. Call and get it.
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  Speaker 3: It's the end of the month eight six y six
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  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or legal exchange
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  Speaker 3: show dot com again eight six six eight four eight
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  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or legal exchange com and you
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  Speaker 3: can download it right there.
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  Speaker 2: You know what this means, don't you?
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  Speaker 4: What?
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  Speaker 2: Half the year is over?
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  Speaker 3: I don't say it like that.
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  Speaker 2: It is at the end of June.
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  Speaker 3: You're right, ever, you're right done, But I don't like
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  Speaker 3: to hear it.
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  Speaker 2: Oh so crazy.
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  Speaker 3: Well, in that regard, let's head down to Florida, where
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  Speaker 3: it's cool, where it's much cooler than here. Apparently so
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  Speaker 3: it is a lost will or no will? What do
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  Speaker 3: I mean? So in this case, Margaret died with no
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  Speaker 3: surviving spouse and no children, but had a friend Jonathan,
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  Speaker 3: and was basically the sole devis under her will, which
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  Speaker 3: begs the question why. The next thing he did was
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  Speaker 3: he petitioned the court to establish a lost will. So
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  Speaker 3: that makes me wonder was the will not signed? Did
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  Speaker 3: they only have a copy? What is it that? Why
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  Speaker 3: is it they're trying to establish that it was a
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  Speaker 3: lost will and he.
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  Speaker 2: Was the only beneficiary of that will? Yeah, okay, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: just a friend.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, apparently good friend. And so he petitioned for that
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  Speaker 3: any petition for summary administration of the estate, which means,
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  Speaker 3: if there's no will, you're not going to be the
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  Speaker 3: personal representative, you're going to be an administrator of the estate. Well,
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  Speaker 3: he established through apparently an evidentiary hearing, and the trial
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  Speaker 3: court determined that all of the interested parties had been
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  Speaker 3: given notice and or the petition for the petition or
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  Speaker 3: the hearing, and or they waived their notice, So apparently
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  Speaker 3: everybody was informed, and so the trial court and no
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  Speaker 3: one objected, and so the trial court awarded the homestead,
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  Speaker 3: which is what this is all about to speak, piece
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  Speaker 3: of property to John seems okay, Yeah, Well it wasn't
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  Speaker 3: because Property Solutions LLC moved for a rehearing as an
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  Speaker 3: interested person, alleging that Margaret had heirs many cousins that
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  Speaker 3: assigned their interest to the sale proceeds of this property,
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  Speaker 3: this homestead two Property Solutions LLC.
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  Speaker 2: Huh, who would have thought you could do that? Well,
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  Speaker 2: apparently future inheritance.
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  Speaker 3: Maybe it's interesting, right, yeah, Apparently affi davids to that
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  Speaker 3: effect were produced, you know, cousins, and then there was
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  Speaker 3: a list of other cousins stating that this actually happened
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  Speaker 3: as well. But these affid davids were never signed and notarized,
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  Speaker 3: soll so at the end of the day they argued
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  Speaker 3: that that there was no notice. LLC group argued that
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  Speaker 3: there was no notice given to them as interested heirs
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  Speaker 3: and therefore that property was not even part of the estate. Well,
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  Speaker 3: the trial court, needless to say, denied the hearing and
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  Speaker 3: said no, this is not and then the appellate court,
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  Speaker 3: of course, they affirmed the appellate court. Rather, they went
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  Speaker 3: up to the appellate court or in the appellate court
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  Speaker 3: affirmed saying that the LLC did not offer any evidence
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  Speaker 3: to show that Margaret had intestate heirs who assigned their
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  Speaker 3: rights away, and since Margaret was not survived by a
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  Speaker 3: spouse or any minor children, there was no constitutional restrictions
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  Speaker 3: on who she could devise her assets to. So at
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  Speaker 3: the end of the day, John gets it, but so.
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  Speaker 2: Baffled by this. It's like saying, Okay, well, I'm going
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  Speaker 2: to borrow money from Utah using my future inheritance from
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  Speaker 2: my parents as collateral. Who could change their mind and
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  Speaker 2: not leave me anything.
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  Speaker 3: I would say that that is kind of strang just
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  Speaker 3: of what That's what I'm hearing. Now, do you assign
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  Speaker 3: your rights today?
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  Speaker 2: Maybe rights because it depends upon her not having any document.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know how you assign your rights under this,
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  Speaker 3: But in any event, it didn't work. It didn't work,
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  Speaker 3: and I think the lesson do we learn here is right,
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  Speaker 3: how does it work? So for people? Let's just expand
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  Speaker 3: this for listeners. Right, So, when you have real estate,
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  Speaker 3: the last thing you want to be dealing with is
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  Speaker 3: probate courts or wills or I mean, real estate is
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  Speaker 3: a big deal for a lot of people, and if
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  Speaker 3: you want to make it go where you want to
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  Speaker 3: make it go. You should do planning and not leave
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  Speaker 3: it to chance like this. Right, they said there was
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  Speaker 3: some will, Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't. But let's
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  Speaker 3: play out the string. Right, So if you find yourself
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  Speaker 3: in a situation like this, lost will or no will,
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  Speaker 3: you're going to probate either way. So that's the first
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  Speaker 3: thing that wasn't avoided because you had this. And and
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  Speaker 3: let's say you know, John would get the real estate
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  Speaker 3: if there was a will and they actually proved the
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  Speaker 3: lost will existed, Yeah, John would get it, but there
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  Speaker 3: would be a headache. Now, let's play out the string.
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  Speaker 3: If there was no will. Well, if there's no will,
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  Speaker 3: well then you have to look to the intestate succession.
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  Speaker 3: So if you couldn't prove the establishment of a lost will,
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  Speaker 3: then you have to look to the intestate succession statute
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  Speaker 3: and you still have to provide notice to all the
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  Speaker 3: heirs at law. Well, I don't know what the Florida
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  Speaker 3: Intestate Succession Statute says, but I'm guessing there's an ordering
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  Speaker 3: you have to give. You know, you have to look
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  Speaker 3: to like a Plinko ball going down a board. Right,
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  Speaker 3: was there a surviving spouse? No was their kids, no,
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  Speaker 3: were their parents no, no siblings, no nieces, nephews, then
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  Speaker 3: maybe you would get to cousins.
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  Speaker 2: Eventually, the cousins like, they're way down on the Plinko board.
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  Speaker 3: So I agree. So even in this case, if you're
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  Speaker 3: talking about assigning rights and there was no will, there's
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  Speaker 3: a lot of other people that have to be dead
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  Speaker 3: right before we would get to cousins, right, And so
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  Speaker 3: assuming there was no one else in line and the
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  Speaker 3: cousins knew that, well, then yes they would actually take
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  Speaker 3: if there was no will, because then it would be
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  Speaker 3: intestate succession. So again I don't want to go through
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  Speaker 3: that mess, right, And remember, the probate process is not simple.
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  Speaker 3: Just because you're listed as the pr doesn't mean you are.
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  Speaker 3: You have to tell people all the time. You have
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  Speaker 3: to file to petition the court to be PR, you
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  Speaker 3: have to give notice to the heirs at law, you
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  Speaker 3: have to wait thirty days to you know, for that
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  Speaker 3: time to pass for them to object. You got to
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  Speaker 3: then wait to the court to call you back. You're
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  Speaker 3: looking at sixty days just to get appointed. And then
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  Speaker 3: of course you can take the appointment and go talk
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  Speaker 3: to banks and move real estate and whatnot. So this
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  Speaker 3: probate process is a big deal. And of course after
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  Speaker 3: that you have to do an accounting and inventory. It's
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  Speaker 3: a lot of work. Folks, just avoid it. My point
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  Speaker 3: here is, you know, if I was if I was Margaret,
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  Speaker 3: you know, I probably if I wanted Jonathan to get this,
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  Speaker 3: I would have said, you know what, I'm going to
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  Speaker 3: set up a trust. It can be revocable or irrevocable.
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to put the house in there, the homestead
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  Speaker 3: in there, and I'm going to make sure it gets
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  Speaker 3: there free of probate control everything. So folks think about
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: trust planning. It really can save a lot of problems.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: And the type of trust is up to you, revocable
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  Speaker 3: or irrevocable. But the guide is the power of irrevocable
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  Speaker 3: Eight sixty six eight four eight five six nine nine
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  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange show dot com.
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutski, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Power as
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: much more to come when we return to the Legal
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  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutski.
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  Speaker 1: Elder life planning can be overwhelming, so be sure you're
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers of financial Advice with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Letsky, a partner with a
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Where are we headed now, Todd, We're.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Going to go to Ohio a little back to Homeland State,
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: and we're going to talk about planning that really works
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: and think about this. It's almost like a second marriage,
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  Speaker 3: but it's not. It's just Robin and Kathy and their
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  Speaker 3: longtime romantic partners. Robin died, but he did a revocable
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  Speaker 3: trust and he named Kathy makes sense, and Dennis a
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  Speaker 3: longtime employee business associate as beneficiaries. Okay, so I'm guessing
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  Speaker 3: they might not have had any children. Well, and again
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: they weren't married, so that's another thing. But again romantic
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: partners but not married, so significant other kind of relationship. Well,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Kathy was to get in this as a beneficiary. She
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: was to get some of the tang personal property, the stuff,
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  Speaker 3: and a life estate in a twenty one acre homestead.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: That sounds nice. Dennis is to get a portion of
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  Speaker 3: the remaining property after Robin's mother dies. Okay, Well, in
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, Robin gets leukemia and so then he
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: amends the trust and Kathy is now only getting the
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: life estate in the twenty one acres, which is still good,
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: and Dennis is getting the balance of the assets. And
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: then in December of twenty twenty two, Robin enters hospice
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: care and then out of the blue, Kathy comes in
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: late December of twenty twenty two, shows up in the
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: hospice room with a marriage license and a Justice of
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: the peace. Well, Robin didn't know what was going on
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: and really didn't want to get married, so that was
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: kind of strange. Well, needless to say, shortly after that
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: little encounter which they didn't get married, Robin amends the
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: trust and now guess who's the sole beneficiary, Dennis Well
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  Speaker 3: Robin dies January twenty twenty three, shortly after the visit. Yeah, well,
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  Speaker 3: Kathley files a complaint alleging undue influenced by Dennis and
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: tries to set aside their revocable trust amendments.
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  Speaker 2: Oh in showing up with a with a marriage license
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: and a priest and marry you is not undue influence.
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  Speaker 2: You can't even make this step up.
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  Speaker 3: You can't make it up. And so they actually reach
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: a settlement agreement. Huh, Well, they reached the settlement agreement.
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  Speaker 3: A week later, they signed the agreement, and that was
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: actually prepared by Kathy's lawyer. Okay. August twenty twenty three,
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  Speaker 3: eight months later, Kathy files a motion to get relief
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  Speaker 3: from this bad settlement agreement that her attorney, that her
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: attorney drafted as denise as. Dennis then counters saying that no,
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  Speaker 3: she's alleging that there was fraud engineering of the two
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  Speaker 3: amendments by Dennis benefiting himself and forcing her to sign
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: the settlement agreement under duress.
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  Speaker 2: She sounds a little cray.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, the trial court obviously denied her motion. There
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  Speaker 3: was no fraud and Dennis, you know, no fraud in
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: the execution of the agreement. She appealed, Well, the appellate
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  Speaker 3: court affirmed, claiming that there was no fraud or undue influence,
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  Speaker 3: and Robin's capacity was never an issue, and the amendments
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: were fine and all this was without merit. But again, wow,
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: what works here.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: That's a nice, juicy story. Thank you for sharing.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: That it is it is and and but but again, folks,
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: that the beauty here is. Look how well this trust worked.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: The trust planning held up? There was I mean she filed,
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: there was. This didn't even go to court. They pretty
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: much just denied the motions. They were so bad, egregious
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: because you have planning done, folks, get your planning done.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: It's the end of the month. The power of irrevocable
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: medicaid trusts, it's the last chance to get it. It
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: planes in a question answer format, how these trusts work
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: while you're living, when one dies, when you're both gone.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: It explains all the income tax issues, the estate tax benefits,
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: and all the dos and don'ts that you can do
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: with assets in an irrevocable trust over your lifetime. This
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: will help you, once and for all decide whether or
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: not an irrevocable trust is right for you. Call and
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: get it eight six six eight four eight five six
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six ninety nine or
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: So even more important. I mean, they weren't married to
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: get your plan in place.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: And I don't want people to think I'm single. I
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: don't need to plan. You know, I'm married. I don't
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: have enough assets, I don't need to plan. I mean,
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: these are just not reasons not to plan. Here now
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: I'm not married, but I've got a significant other. That's
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: like a second marriage. If you ask me, you need
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: to plan if you want to take care of that
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: significant other. And guess what. Robin did that here and
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: it would have worked, except Kathy really just shot herself
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: in the foot by trying to, you know, get more
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: than she was she was given. But let's play out
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: the string and let's see how important it is when
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: you have real estate. Right, this is great, it's like
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: a second marriage. But take care of him. The trust works, right,
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: So you hear you plan to hold the real estate
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: for a significant other or a second spouse, if that's
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: the case. So just expand this thinking. But you design
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: it so it's not sold. You know, you give her
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: the right to live there. You give her, you know,
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: maybe some language about saying she's got to pay the
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: bills while she's living there, right, which is fine. You know,
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: however that homestead in this case would ultimately go to
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: that longtime business associate, or if it was a second marriage,
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: it could go to your kids from your side of
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: the marriage, right.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: So you can take care of each other while you're
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: both still living, or while one of you is not
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: living the survivor. But then make sure it goes to
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: your bloodline. So whoever you wanted to go really.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: Exactly, and this trust was doing that right. And so
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: here she did that right. They gave her a life estate. Okay,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: you have the right to live there, but not sell it.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: M good, Why because it's going to get to where
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: I wanted to go eventually, it's going to avoid probate,
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: et cetera. Now, it was nice here that she had
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: a revocable trust because she was able to keep control
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: over the ability to change her mind, which she did do.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: I remember as we went through this, as Kathy got
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: more pushy. Yeah, it ended up being able to change
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: the trust, and Robin did that to ultimately cut her
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: back and then cut her out. Yep. Now, having said that,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: folks don't want you to think that with an irrevocable trust,
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: you don't have that same flexibility, especially the one we're
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: giving away in the guide this month, right, if you
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: wanted to, if Robin was really concerned, and let's say
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: it was a second marriage situation instead, and Robin wanted
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: to take care of Kathy, but wanted to make sure
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: that this home maybe it's a cap property, maybe it's
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: on a lake somewhere, maybe it's a house that we
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: just want to keep in the family. Wanted it to
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: get to Robin's kids and not be sold. Well, then
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: maybe an irrevocable medicaid type trust would have been better,
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: because now you're going to get what the revocable trust
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: would give you, the probate avoidance, the bloodline planning, but
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: it's going to add the nursing home protection so that
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: in case you get sick before you die. Robin in
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: this case, the nursing home won't take it, so it
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: will be there for those loved ones that you want
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: to leave it to. So and the reason I say,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: the reason I'm putting is because you can do all
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: of that, and in this case, if it was irrevocable,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: you could still disinherit Kathy because in these irrevocable trusts
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: you retain a limited power of appointment or the ability
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: to change beneficiaries among a group of people that you
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: define when you create the document. I'm sure Kathy would
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: have been in that group, and so you would have
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: been able to say, even though it was irrevocable, still
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: Kathy's out. So you keep a tremendous amount of control
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: over these irrevocable trusts, even though you don't think you do.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: That's why I want you to get the guide. Folks,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: It is the end of the month, but I mention
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: it now. I tell you that because here you know
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: this trust also could have provided by having this in place.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: Remember all the stories we have where people take and
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: they either take the property or they have a deed
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: prepared and they deed it away. Look how that didn't
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: happen here? We had a trust in place. Probably a
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: lot harder for Kathy to do that dating it away
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: because it was in the trust. Instead she tried to
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: get married. I mean, think about it, right, Yeah, So
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: these trusts can do everything we want them to do,
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: and they also prevent like certain manipulations and things. So folks,
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: get your planning in place. I think trust planning is
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: the way to go. And then whether it's revocable or irrevocable,
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: that's up to you and your family and your desires.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: But in case you are ever unsure about whether an
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: irrevocable trust is right for you, this guide will give
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: you the answers you need to make that decision. Eight
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine nine or
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd will
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: be answering your listener questions when we return to the
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Elder life planning can be overwhelming, so be sure you're
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: prepared or you could make costly mistakes that affect your
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: overall plan. Cushing and Dolan are experts in elder lawn taxation,
• 24:02
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  Speaker 7: Planning for retirement is much like cramming for a final exam,
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• 27:16
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• 27:26
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• 27:29
  Speaker 1: your questions about anything and everything that's included in the
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: estate planning process. Once again, here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Welcome back toob We have a few questions from listeners
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: for you. First question comes from Joanna and Webster Mass
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: and Joanna writs, my husband and I have separate irrevocable trusts.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: We set up with you years ago and kept meaning
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: to revise how we are leaving our assets to include
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: our grandchildren and give a bit more to my daughter
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: who's been helping with our care. My husband recently passed away.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Is there anything we can do now to change how
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: his assets are left? Is it too late now to
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: update my trust?
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: This is a great question because it really is going
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: to help us understand the flexibility built into these irrevocable trusts.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: And I'm glad you said it's our trust, so I
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: know what we can and cannot do during during life.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: There's really two issues going on here. One can I
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: change an irrevocable trust, I think is the question?
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Yep?
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: And two can I change an irrevocable trust after my
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: husband died? Question?
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: Right, Because there's two separate trusts here. So now granted
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: they were both irrevocable from the get go, but you
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: would think after the donor dies, can you still change it?
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: And the answer to both is affirmative, So let's just
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: exp and it's really done the same way. So inside
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: these trusts, you you reserve, if it's your trust, you
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: reserve a limited power of appointment.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: And what does that mean in English?
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: It it's the ability to appoint the income and principle
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: of the trust. That's the assets.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: It's the change your mind clause Yeah two.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: A group of people that's the word limited, okay, A
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: group of people defined in the trust. In a case
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: like this, it's probably going to be kids of all generations.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: So children, grandchildren, great grandchildren.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: So forth, exactly like that, got it, But not cousin Vinnie.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: You can't come back.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: This partner suddenly not your new husband.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Right, You can't come back and say, oh, I've now
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: five years later, want to put cousin Vinnie in. Not
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: that's not in the great new stepkids, new stepkids. That's
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: not in the group, right, they're not. They're not in there.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: So and that's okay, because that's really what you want
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: to do anyway. You want to just keep it in
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: the family, all right. So that's a great power to reserve.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: So the donor. So let's say, in this case, Joanna,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: who's still living, Yep, you reserve that ability to change
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: your trust. And by the way, it goes on to
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: say in that paragraph, you retain the right to change
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: the beneficiaries of the trust limited to that group in
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: equal or unequal amounts.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: So you could disinherit someone, right, or tinker with the
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: percentage amounts if one kid is struggling more than another.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Yep, as exercised via your will. Okay. So you exercise
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: this power through your will okay. And it says as
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: the donor or the donor spouse may exercise the power
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: in their will.
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: It.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: So when I go to his trust, since he's dead,
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: there's that same language in there, but again giving the
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: surviving spouse the power to exercise the power of appointment
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: in his will in his trust, so she can still
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: change it through her will, so her will will be
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: able to exercise the power in both trusts.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: And you'll just have to reference that okay, in the trust,
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: so yes, you can change it.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: If this were a second marriage, do you keep that
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: same language in there because your second wife could then
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: disinherit your children, right if they're not.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So second marriage is it's not such a given okay,
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: And we address this at the outset.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: When you first meet with them, right.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: So at the initial meeting, will I, as a matter
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: of course, would ask the question, okay, do we all
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: get along. You know, you got two kids, I got
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: two kids, and do we feel like we have four kids? Yes?
• 31:55
  Speaker 7: Or no?
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: And are you worried that if one dies and you
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: give the there this power to change the beneficiaries, do
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: you worry that they would change the beneficiaries and disinherit
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: the other one's kids have to ask that absolutely if
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: they say no, no, we're comfortable. I trust each other
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: and they'll never do it.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Put the power in I would say, if everything changes, yeah,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: when that bag of money hits the table after someone dies.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: I agree. And if you're not, you don't put that
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: language in there. You just you just don't give them
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: that power. And that's okay. When you die, you freeze it. Yeah,
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: that's okay too. And by the way, folks, there's no
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: right or wrong answer here. It's really a family decision
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: all the way around. But great point on this, Joanna,
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: of this question, because it really tells us how flexible
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: these irrevocable medicaid trusts are. It is the end of
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: the month, folks, It's time to get this guide, The
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Power of Irrevocable Medicaid Trusts. It will tell you how
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: these trusts work. Can I put my house in? Can
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: I put a rental in? Can I collect my rent?
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: Can I sell my house? Move by another house? You
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: know you name it, Invest the money, collect the income. Folks,
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: it gives you all the dos and don't you need
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: to know to decide once and for all whether or
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: not an irrevocable medicaid trust is right for you? And
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: a nice question and answer format Get the Guide eight
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: six y six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com Last Chance, End of
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: the Month eight six six eight four eight five six
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Todd Our last question comes from Donna in Newberry, mass
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: And Donna writes, does taking in equity loan against your
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: home restart your five year look back period? Now it's
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: not clear whether or not Donna already has an irrevocable
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: trust or if she's thinking about getting one. So maybe
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: from that perspective of answering kind of both scenarios.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: Although this is a very short question, it's got a
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: lot to unpack. Yes, it does, so let's let's let's
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: try to unpack it. Just what you said is one
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: piece of it, So a lot to think about here.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: So we've got an irrevocable trust. One, did we do
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: it yet? If you if you've done it already, that
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: might be a problem because it's already in there. Let's
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: say you haven't done it. The question you have to
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: ask when you're dealing with an irrevocable trust is one
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: you're putting property in. Okay, is it encumbered like an
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: existing more existing mortgage. If it is, we can put
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: it in. But you have to reserve a life estate
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: the right to live there. That prevents the triggering of
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: the do on sale clause, so you will not lose
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: your existing mortgage. Maybe you got one of those two
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: point nine percent shacking around right, so you won't lose
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: your existing mortgage.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: What if you have, like not a primary mortgage, but
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: you have a home equity line of credit?
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: That would be the next question. So if I've if
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: I've got a home equity line of credit and I'm
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: going to be putting that into the trust, same thing.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: You've got to reserve the life estate to preserve the
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: equity line.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: That does two things for you. Not only does it
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: preserve the existing equity line, it allows you to continue
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: to tap it if you've not maxed it out right,
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: So a lot of clients might say, yeah, I might
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: need that money just to have it, you can tap it.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: And that brings me to the next point. What if
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: they say, no, we have no debt, but in the future,
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: what if we need to put a roof on and
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: I might need a new addition and I might need
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: more money to do that. Can I at least have
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: a safety valve? Yes, go get the equity line of credit,
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: don't borrow, just set it up before we complete this.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: Then we'll reserve a life estate and you're off and running.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: So if you have a client who did not already
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: have an established line of credit and they have already
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: transferred their home to the irrevocable trust in Donna's case,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: if she's asking, now, can I put a new equity
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: line on?
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So that would be the next piece of the example.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: So all these things we talked about are how you
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: get around the one thing you cannot do with an
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: irrevocable trust. Right, The one thing you cannot do is
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: reborrow an existing So if you got an existing mortgage,
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: you can't reborrow it. No refinancing without resetting the clock
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: you can, But you'll start the clock over.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: You have to take it out first.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: In her case too, if she already has if she
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: already doesn't have a loan but she wants to get one,
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: you can't get a new one without restarting.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: To get it before.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: So flexible enough to reset the clock, but you'll have
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: to do that, folks, that might be the only thing
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: that you can't do with these irrevocable trusts. Please call
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: Get the Guide and you'll find how flexible they are.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: click on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: to read your question on the air, and hopefully his
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: answer will stop you from becoming one of his next
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: real life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: partner with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: and we'll be back with more after this quick break
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: on the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutski.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Elder life planning can be overwhelming, so be sure you're
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: prepared or you could make costly mistakes that affect your
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: overall plan. Cushing and Dolan are experts in elder lawn taxation,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: and they can devise a plan that covers you in
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: every area where issues can rise. Irrevocable trust so the
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: most common type of trust that folks use for financial protection,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: and while they can be complicated to create, they help
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: keep your assets safe because they contain specific protections that
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: many of us need, like the possibility of eliminating your
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: estate taxes. Their new guide is called Unlocking the Power
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: of Irrevocable Medicaid Trusts. Learn more about how these trusts
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: can benefit you and your family by calling eight six
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: six eight four eight five six ninety nine right now
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: and asking for your free guide today. That's eight six
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: six eight four eight five six ninety nine, or you
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: can request the guide right now by visiting Legal.
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: Exchange show dot com.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan ind
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: There are many different elements to a complete retirement plan,
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: and it takes time to make sure you've covered all
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: your bases. Hi, this is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: Advisory Group. Our new guide is called your Retirement Preparation Checklist,
• 38:51
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• 38:54
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• 38:57
  Speaker 4: on a specific date to retire, to reviewing your income
• 39:00
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• 39:03
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• 39:05
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• 39:11
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• 39:14
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• 39:16
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• 39:19
  Speaker 4: or you can request it online at Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: That's Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: advisory services. Summer in New England is here. The kids
• 39:42
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• 39:46
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• 39:48
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• 40:37
  Speaker 1: visit USVII dot com. Your tune to the Legal Exchange
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: with Todd Lutsky. If you are a loved one needs
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: a nursing homestay, call Todd right now at eight sixty
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: six eight four eight five six nine nine and let
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: him make sure your assets are protected. That's eight six
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: six eight for eight five six nine nine, or visit
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: him online at Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. You know, Todd, you made a comment
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: earlier in this show that kind of jumped out at
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: me where you said that people think that they don't
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: need to do this type of planning because they don't
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: have enough assets to do it. I would argue that
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: think about how many people we have met over the
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: years where you have Typically it's the husband, he has
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: a pension, he didn't take a survivor benefit on his pension.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: He has a life insurance policy that's going to kick
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: in if he dies, so that his wife can have
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: that he's got the income, and if he goes into
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: the nursing home, she needs every bit of the assets
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: that they have in the equity they have in their homes.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: So I think it's even more important to do that
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: type of planning.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: When you have less.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: When you have less, I agree, Susan.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: I think that is an exact example of what we
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: run into. So people think they don't have a lot. Right,
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: Let's say they've got the house typically and and like
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: you said, he's got a pension. He checked the box.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: I want as much money as I can possibly get.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: She's got a small social security. Let's say coming in
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: and you know, they've got, you know, some money in
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: the in the bank and maybe some money in an ira,
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: but not a lot, and they're primarily living off of
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: you know. But let's let's say the amount of money
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: they have in in the in the you know, maybe
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: it's half a million. Well, when you pass, if you
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: don't do planning and somebody gets sick, well they're gonna
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: take the money, right, So you need to make sure
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: and even if you don't write when you die, that
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: pench and goes away because they check the box wrong.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: And even if they have a life insurance policy that
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: they think is going to be used to make up
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: that right. So let's say there's only five hundred thousand
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: in the bank, but I bought a five hundred thousand
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: dollars life insurance policy. So when I die, my wife's
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: going to have a million dollars. She's going to get,
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: you know, her own social My pension goes away, but
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: it's going to be replenished because there'll be this money,
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: and we're going to invest the money and we're going
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: to generate fifty thousand dollars a year in income and
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: she's going to have her Social Security. She's going to
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: be fine. This will work out great. We don't need
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: to plan. Plus she gets to keep the house even
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: if I get sick, because the house is always non
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: accountable and we're not worried about the kids. Okay, that's
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: still not good because if you don't plan and you
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: get sick, Yeah, she'll get to keep the house. But again,
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: if she gets sick, they'll take it. But more importantly,
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: now you're going to lose the pension money because you
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: don't get to keep. You only get to keep a
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: minimum amount of income as a community spouse. So maybe
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: you'll keep your social and some of his pension, but
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: a little bit of it, most of it will go.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: So while you're living, you don't have that. While he's living.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: The life insurance hasn't paid out, so you don't have
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: that to make up the difference. And that five hundred
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: thousand's at risk, which you could probably buy an annuity
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: at least and keep the money. So I get it
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: for that a part. But then you've got this life
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: insurance policy that that's if you want to get on Medicaid, right,
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: they're going to make you cash out the policy. So
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: now you're not going to have the policy.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Right because typically it's a whole life policy, so there's
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: a cash value there, so that's accountable asset.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: Right, And so I think you're going to run into
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: that problem where now they're going to say, well, how
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: do we save that that life insurance? Now there might
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: be ways to do it, depending on the amount, but
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, that's not the plan, right.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, at the end of the day, you put
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: together an irrevocable trust. Now put the five hundred grand in,
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: leave a little bit out, put the house in, and
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: put the life insurance in. If it's paid up take
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: and typically a whole life policy by then probably would
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: be So take it and put it in the trust. Now,
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: when you get sick, I don't have to annuitize anything.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: I got the money protected, My life insurance is protected.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: When he dies, it'll work out exactly the way you thought.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: The money will be there. We can generate income for her. So,
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: as you said, Susan, preserving the assets to generate the
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: income to take care of the surviving spouse is primary
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: number one importance. But if I've done the trust, I've
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: also protected them for the kids ultimately as a bonus,
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: regardless of which spouse gets sick or when. So that's
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: really the key, folks. And by putting those kinds of
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: assets in this irrevocable trust, So this is the guide, right,
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: the power of irrevocable medicaid trust. End of the month,
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: last chance to get it, folks. It gives you question
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: and answers format about these things. How to put assets in,
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: what can be titled, what can't be how you can
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: live on the income, how you can invest the money,
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: what are the income tax ramifications? You know who can
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: be trustee? Can I remove and replace trustee? You know
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: all the things rental property, buying and selling houses. Folks,
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: if you've never known whether you're going to have one
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: of these irrevocable trusts, whether they're right for you or not,
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: this guide will once and for all give you those answers,
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: and then you can decide whether it's right for you.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: Call and get it. It's the end of the month
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight sixty six
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: Show dot com.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Tod What do you say to those folks that say
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: to you when because when you first sit down with folks,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: you go over their objectives. You want to do your
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: bloodline planning? Do you want to eliminate your taxes or
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: reduce your taxes and so forth? And you say do
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: you want to protect from the nursing home? Yeah, And
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: there's so many people that say, I am never going in. Yep,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: not going to be a problem. I'm never going in.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: What do you say to those people?
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: Well, the first thing I say is I didn't ask
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: you that question. I didn't ask you if you're going in,
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: I do I do tell them. Yeah, I didn't ask
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: that question. I asked you because I agree with you.
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: I don't want you to go in. I don't want
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: to go in. Nobody wants. Somebody wants to We're not
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: going in in our head. The question really is do
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: you want to take steps now so that if you
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: ever beyond your control find yourself in a nursing home.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: Would you like the assets to be protected for the
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: family or are you okay having them spent on your care?
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: And again, there's no right or wrong answer here. This
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: isn't And they sometimes tell me, well, what would you do?
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: No?
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: Right, not what would I do? It makes no difference
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: what I would do. Yes, it matters what's important to you.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: So I always put it back on them.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they all say I'm never going in. Well
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: everyone says that, but they are all full. The nursing
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: homes are all full. Okay, but let's let's play out
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: the string. Okay, so they go, Yeah, I don't want
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: to impoverish my spouse. Let's do the planning. They do
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: the planning.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: What happens if they never go in? Is it all
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: for not?
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Great question. So remember I'm with you on this.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: I believe that you know, not everybody goes to the
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: nursing shure totally agree, but I'm fairly certain everybody dies
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: last week checked. Yes. So that said, the planning we're doing,
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: and this is this is what I sort of get
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: aggravated with a lot of elder law attorneys when I'm
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: speaking to them that they forget that there's tax issues
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: that have to be addressed when you're doing elder law planning.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: Don't just think about the elder law planning side of it,
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: the medicaid side of it. Because not everybody goes to
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: the nursing home. This trust should still be designed to
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: what avoid probate when you die. They should be designed
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: to shelter or eliminate your federal and state death tax.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Federal probably would never be an issue because they high people.
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: But when you're doing medicaid planning, but state death tax,
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: we want to make sure it does that. We want
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: to make sure it provides bloodline planning for your children
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: how and when they get it, maybe divorce proofing it,
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: maybe credit or protecting it, maybe generation skipping planning. So
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: all of that is in there.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: You could still have you know, special needs children or grandchildren.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: You could have children with dependency issues, so that can
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: all be addressed in there.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, how you control it after you die? So my
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: point is three of the four issues will happen. The
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: fourth is she is the nursing home piece. Well, we're
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: providing protection for that in the event it would happen.
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: But if it doesn't happen, the other three items that
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: we just mentioned, they're covered when you die.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Still all the same benefits as a revocable. True, you've
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: just added in the nursing home vocable.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: The quick answer to your question is no, it's not
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: all or not. It's still very very important. So, folks,
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: Power of irrevocable Medicaid trusts. End of the month, last
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: chance to get it. Please call help you decide whether
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: or not these trusts will be right for you, because
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: there's thirty years of question and answers in here eight
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine nine or
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan, always a pleasure.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Advisor Group. We thank you for joining us and we'll
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: be back again next week on the Legal Exchange with
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Todd Leutskey.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Elder life planning can be overwhelming, so be sure you're
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: prepared or you could make costly mistakes that affect your
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: overall plan. Cushing and Dolan are experts in elder lawn
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: taxation and they can devise a plan that covers you
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: in every area where issues can rise. Irrevocable trusts so
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: the most common type of trust that folks use for
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: financial protection, and while they can be complicated to create,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: they help keep your assets safe because they contain specific
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: protections that many of us need, like the possibility of
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: eliminating your estate taxes. Their new guide is called Unlocking
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: the Power of Irrevocable Medicaid Trusts. Learn more about how
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: these trusts can benefit you and your family by calling
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: right now and asking for your free guide today. That's
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: or you can request the guide right now by visiting Legal.
• 51:47
  Speaker 5: Exchange show dot com.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in the views expressed are
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan ind
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 52:00
  Speaker 7: Planning for retirement is much like cramming for a final exam,
• 52:03
  Speaker 7: and no stone should be left unturned before you're ready
• 52:05
  Speaker 7: to take that step. Hi, this is Chuck Zauta from
• 52:07
  Speaker 7: the Armstrong Advisory Group and we help folks just like
• 52:10
  Speaker 7: you plan for retirement every day. Our new guide is
• 52:13
  Speaker 7: called your Retirement Planning Checklist, and in it will remind
• 52:16
  Speaker 7: you of the various issues that may be most important
• 52:18
  Speaker 7: to your planning process. Let's start with the date you
• 52:20
  Speaker 7: choose to retire. That'll depend on a variety of factors,
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