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Healing Brain Trauma Through Psychedelics with Dr. Pamela Kryskow · Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey folks, welcome to another edition of Broken Brains with your host, Bruce Parkman, sponsored by the MAC Parkman Foundation, where we focus on the issue of repetitive brain trauma from two aspects: repetitive head impacts from contact sports, and repetitive blast exposure for our military veterans.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: And how these two conditions are impacting the brains, mental health, and well-being of our veterans, kids, and athletes.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Why is this important?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because the connection between repetitive brain trauma, mental illness, and brain damage is not taught in any nursing, medical, psychological, or suicide prevention course in this country, making you the front line of defense for those that you know that you love and for those that you know that may be struggling.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we reach out and we find the leading researchers and authors and sports psychiatrists and veterans and athletes, everybody we can to give you that 360-degree perspective of this issue, because you're the one that's going to count and you need to be informed.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: On today's show, another amazing guest, Miss Pamela Crisko.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Crisco is a vision, a physician specializing in family medicine, rural emergency medicine, chronic pain, functional medicine, and ketamine-assisted psychotherapy.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Her research focuses on psilocybin, microdosing, ketamine, and MDMA.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: She is currently dedicated to psychedelic research and public speaking, sharing emerging findings and exploring the ethical considerations of psychedelic assisted mental health care.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Chrisko is presented at the Psychedelic Psychotherapy Foreman, the Spirit Plant Medicine Conference, and has hosted webinars for the Canadian Psychedelic Association.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Outside of her work, she is passionate about nature, science, and community.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Chrisko, welcome to the show.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you dialing from?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is are you from the Canadian side of the border or?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: I am.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Whereabouts?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm uh uh just off of Vancouver Island.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Island off of the island, uh you know, close to Desolation Sound, in a beautiful area where the whales still swim by and the eagles swim by and where I can get out in the forest every day and reconnect.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very important.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: That spiritual connection with with Mother Earth is uh is everything that uh we need is a lot about what we need to do.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us how um tell us about yourself.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: What what was your path into medicine?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're a physician, and then and then how did that take you on into the world of psychedelic research and uh psychotherapy?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I did a deep dive, really I opened up a chronic pain clinic, which I loved.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was this intersection there that was happening from I worked with a lot of elite athletes, a lot of frontline uh, you know, first responders, obviously, because of my firefighting background.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was finding that, you know, we could get a certain level of the chronic pain fixed, but then there was this emotional part, this emotional pain that was also there, and that was right in Canada.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's been a windy path, Bruce.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been windy path.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, obviously.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean it and it and it's amazing what, you know, having personally experienced um these substances, uh, these medicines, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what they can do for us.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I did not know that MDMA and psilocybin were legal in um in Canada.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's very interesting.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm wondering if the U.S.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: might want to take a look at whatever was, you know, the research that was used to obviously uh render them render them legal.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's a bit of a caveat.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: We have to apply on a case-by-case basis for each person.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So each each person that gets access legally is a is an individual application to Health Canada.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: We have to make a strong argument for them.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh unfortunately we have been able to, and and where Health Canada has been a little obstructionist, we've been able to use the courts to force them to uh let people have access to these medicines.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So Wow.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and and so in in your opinion, um, why is psychedelic assisted therapy or just psychedelics uh administration um so effective when we're dealing with the issue of mental illness?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a lot of people associate ketamine and MDMA with recreational use.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: I personally know this is this is a lot of hard work when taking at the right doses.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to our audience about these substances or about these medicines.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Why are they so effective when it comes down to mental health problems?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it is always going for the easiest pathway.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: It is always gonna and so we can get in these repetitive, almost like a repetitive injury in some cases.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we can be in a depressive mode, or we can be in an anxious mode, or we can be in a hyper-vigilant mode because bombs are going off around us or fire or bodies or something like that.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: That and the in the reason the psychedelics are so powerful is they help us get so it's it's it's there's so many things here.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful for our neuroscientist friends.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of things.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we know that there's there's quick changes that these psychedelics allow us to have, and then there's also these long-term changes which go to you know more of the brain injury stuff, which is we know that the that these medicines also decrease the inflammation in our brain.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so you bring up a couple of good concepts here.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about neuroplasticity real quick, because you know, we we talk a lot about the damage to the brains that take place in this, and then you know, then and so I'd like to cover that real quick.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of hocus pocus out there saying that the brain's neuroplasticity capability can handle the impact of repetitive impacts, which we all know cannot happen.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna not happen.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I do know personally, and I do know talking to a lot of my athlete and um and military buddies that have been through psychedelic treatments, that we have all responded favorably.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I started with ketamine back in the day.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think the the thing about ketamine that I noticed, and I'd like you to elaborate on this, is when I was done, you know, like you could go for a run and your legs are sore as hell, right?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you went five miles, you ran a marathon, your leg, you've exercised them.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Until that point, I never knew what it was like to exercise my brain.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I would leave a ketamine treatment so brain tired.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt, and that's why I felt like, man, if I if if I if I strain my muscles and eat lots of protein, they grow.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: If I strain my my brain, will it start growing and and recreating those neuronal structures and all that, you know, that that that complex circuitry that we have.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: What's your comments on on that on that issue there?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love this.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're speaking my language, Bruce.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I talk with my patients all the time.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: When they'll say, Oh, that's hard.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, great, hard is good.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you go to the gym and you don't sit there and lift a one-pound weight and expect to get ripped.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like nobody does that.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And our brain's the same way.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Our our brain's the same way, right?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: That you have we have to do hard things.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you so the first time you know you try to read a foreign language, it it's hard to go.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: When something is hard, that's a celebration.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: That is a good thing, then the world opens up.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, you have to work hard to build your brain.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you should never stop working hard to build your brain.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: That is that is the way to have a healthy, long life.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: What are your comments?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, uh, so I've done, you know, a lot of spiritual, I mean, a lot of uh psychedelic therapy that has led to a ton of spiritual growth.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my wife calls me Bruce 4.0 now.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have I am not the guy I was not even three years ago.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not the guy I was a a year ago.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: But um it but it was a lot of a lot of hard work.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And yet I was, you know, depressed, anxious, mental I was steed out, you know, I had brain injuries, the whole nine yards.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: So can you talk to our audience about a lot of them are, you know, I I talk to the Christian population, like, oh, that's a drug, right?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, it's it's not a drug, because it, you know, and and it's it's a it's a form of therapy.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a way, it's it's a it's a medicine.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like how you would use any medicine to improve whether it's chronic pain or you know, whatever your your mindset is.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, could you explain to our audience, besides the, you know, the the impact of the the drug, you know, the visualizations and all and and and all that, um, you know, the the opportunity for that it allows for for spiritual growth, that that also alleviates a lot of the mental illness, because in my opinion, mental illness is a lot of folks dealing with trauma, repressed trauma.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's why they drink, that's why they're depressed, that's why there's this.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And until you deal with the trauma, which is hard, okay, then then you're gonna keep drinking, you keep doing this.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: These psychedelics allow you to process this trauma in a way that is unbelievable.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'm not a doctor, you are.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if you could explain to our audience wh how these, you know, psychedelics open you up to yourself so that you could grow.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a there's a lot in there that you've you've brought up which is fantastic.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think if we if we kind of go if we all go back to where we've ever felt really great, it's when we've been in community.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: When we've been in relationship, when we've been celebrating, whether we've been in ceremony or ritual, you know, celebrating a marriage, celebrating a birth, you know, a a party.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like these we are meant, we are meant to be in we're meant we're meant to be together.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're meant when when you are having a challenge, when you are feeling anxious or depressed, that is the time to be with others.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: That is the time to reach out and ask for help.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And for some reason, we've got, and especially with men, we've got these myth, like these ridiculous um messages like man up, you know, do like handle it on your own, be a gu like it's just bullshit.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is the time when we should be reaching out and saying, Hey, I need some help here.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm struggling.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so because we've pulled ourselves away from our supports, these medicines actually are giving us an opportunity to come back to ourselves, back to community, back into service to humanity.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now, for for our our our friends that are Christians or are religious or whatever, that it is always about community, coming back into service, coming back to the community to help, to feed, to clothe, to support, to celebrate, to be there.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And if we're not doing that, these medicines, these like there is nothing on this planet that God didn't put here if you believe in God.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I tell them.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, whether it's ayahuasca, whether it's Ibogane, these are plants.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: God made the plants, you know, whatever.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: He made the brain that found ketamine.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: These are God's medicines.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I and that's what one of my responses to, I'm sorry.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Moved away from service to humanity.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: They help us reconnect.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: They help us see that you and I, even though we may have different hypothetical belief systems, we're still you know we're still kin.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're still related, we're still humans.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And these medicines really help us dissolve these artificial belief systems.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And there's one of my wise elders, Duncan Grady, who's a blackfeet elder, says that like these are the perennial truths.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: There No, no.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it was under, you know, these medicines that I truly experienced the power of love.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I never knew love in my life until I, you know, my grandmother, I found my wife, and even then, I still didn't I didn't know what she knew what love was, I didn't.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: But you start understanding this power, and I and I guess uh what I want to say to the audience is that you know, Dr.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Chris Gow is talking about, you know, a sense of service, right?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: A selfish service to this planet.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: You also we also have a duty of service to ourselves, which is when we are in pain, when we are emotionally challenged or we're suffering from mental illness, we need to address this.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and we need to understand, and I'll let you talk about this, Dr.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Crisco, is the current, you know, the current here in America, if you're mentally ill and haven't been mentally ill, um, you know, the current approach of uh, you know, let's just give you some pharmaceuticals and some therapy, uh, especially when it comes down to a brain injury, just doesn't cut it because the cause of the mental illness is coming from the brain.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Aside from that, people that might not have brain injuries also can benefit from these non-pharmaceutical approaches to mental illness and allow them to actually be on a pathway of doing this, whether it's, you know, do it yourself, right, with a therapist.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, it's a whole different approach to mental health treatment and um that I I think might be uh I would think is much more effective than the current approach of how how does Canada, I mean, how do you how do you look at the um the the the this approach to mental health where it's like, hey, let's let's have an SSRI, SSI, let's chase the symptoms with more and more pills instead of addressing the true problem, which is whatever happened in your past or whatever you're dealing with up here.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: It is logical.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to get away from this puritanical thing that you're that there's something fundamentally wrong with you.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're not broken, you're having a normal response to your life.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we are smart enough to know that if we go to the seeds of that and really work at the cause, every then people will get better for the most part.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Most people can get better.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I am a completely optimistic, and what you said is exactly true.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like we had this time in science where we didn't have a lot of things that worked very well.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you got an infection, you lost your arm.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you if you have a heart problem, you died, right?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then things started changing.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: We started learning about antibiotics, and we started learning about, you know, that the there were things that could help you well.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you're looking at all the therapies.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And when you look at the cost, cost-benefit analysis, you know, uh what I spent, you know, putting my health back together was nothing compared to a lifetime of medication, not only the cost of the pills, but the cost of therapy that would have never ever addressed the underlying cause of my mental illness, which was a damaged brain.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So for those shareholders right now, and that's going to be a long conversation in America, you know, there is on the healthcare side enormous incentivization to start moving in this w in this mare.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're talking about, you know, the mess that I was three and a half years ago, looking at you right now at Bruce 4.0, I would have never even come close.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: I would still be sucking my thumb in my bed, highly medicated, unable to perform, whatever that is.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we're seeing with our athletes right now, our veterans.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're seeing basically anybody that's had a brain injury, that is their future.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't want that for anybody as human beings.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: We we want what's working.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And these psychedelics out there that that that are are from a brain health perspective and a mental well-being perspective, are you know, they're they're just amazing.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing at what they're capable of doing.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's actually dive more into those what that recipe looks like.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And my chronic pain clinic, you know, this is what we worked on all the time, because I had so many elite athletes that were coming in with concussion, concussion, traumatic brain injury.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's there's not one way to it, as you know.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's not one way, but there's many ways, and we need that full buffet table of options.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and for some people, it's structural work.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we worked with an elite, lots of healthy fat.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: The brain is fat, right?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: The brain is fat and water.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: You need that, lots of nutrition, but by food.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: We wanted people to regain a good relationship with what real food is.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: So lots of vegetables, lots of fruit, and and we were always kind of like sneaky in our ways, and prepare that food with your family.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Again, re making connection again, like we used to.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let's create okay.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, throw them, chuck them phones out, man, talk, look at each other.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Get rid of them, and that's a whole nother thing.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like the the absolute harm to society that social media has done is is a whole nother thing.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: But then but back to the head, and then we get people with nutrition that fed the brain.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: So stuff like nias and like vitamin Bs, very important for mental health, very and very inexpensive.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, lion's main mycelium, the mycelium of lion's main mushrooms.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Great studies out there.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're lives back, yeah.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's and so let's talk a little bit about that, about that buffet table of approaches to to psychedelic medicine.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: How how and and knowing that there's no perfect way, but how would you how do you go about recommending where to start?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've always you know looked at you know, ketamine kind of being that entry level and I will gain or ayahuasca being up here, you know.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: But you know and but we also know when it comes down to suicidal ideation and addiction problems, man, IB gained just, just nothing can right now that I know of is can just what it fix help these people.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And like you say, they're not broken.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: They are literally responding to trauma with alcohol, with drugs, whatever, but they can they can start resetting pathways.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: How do you go about evaluating your patients saying, all right, we're gonna start, we're gonna start here, ketamine, MDMA, whatever, or combination thereof.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and you know, and and people need to know like it was propaganda.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: We are so susceptible, people are so we are all susceptible, me included, to propaganda.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: We just have to admit that.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, look at all the pharmaceutical advertising we have in the states, right?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, hey, go go get this drug, right?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, exactly, exactly.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and we all are.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it works.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Advertising works.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: We get advertising because it works.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we just have to step back and go, I'm I'm susceptible.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: We all are, and if you just admit it, then you'll be wiser to it, I think.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: But we just start where people are at, and maybe, maybe the first thing is just getting them walking in nature every day.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's the first part, reconnect to nature.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the first part is breath work.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe some people are ready to jump in.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: There, there, there's a lot of people that are like, I can't live like this.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: What what do I need to do?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I agree with you, I think ketamine really is the gateway psychedelic.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was a highly, highly um skeptical.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of ketamine 20 years ago?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was not I was like, no.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I was wrong, completely wrong.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Ketamine is a fantastic medicine for all the reasons you said, you know, especially if there's suicidality, especially if there's depression, it works quickly.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: It opens up the doors.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Tailor off, yeah.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Taper off, yeah.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so we, if you kind of think of it, it's like a myceliation.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like we just everybody everybody's a little bit different, right?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to go down this pathway.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: But what we know is no matter what, each step that they're doing is moving them forward in their life's journey of getting better.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone gets better.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone gets better.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I can honestly say that my toughest emotional and mental battles have been under the influence of this dealing with me, right?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Wrestling with myself, with my ego, getting into the root of my faults.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we're all in the in the and I'm a very devout man, and uh and we're all faulty, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're all flawed human beings.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: And but when I start addressing, and this is the hard work that you know, you all as the audience, I mean, you want to dial into this, you want to become a better human, a more loving, caring, kinder, gentler, compassionate human being.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is an amazing shortcut to years of therapy.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: You'll get right to it.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but um I jump in there, Bruce, because like and we used to do this, right?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: When we were closer and connected, we had ritual that altered our, you know, like brought us into non-ordinary states.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is just we're just returning home.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're returning to love.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's that's a that's a great point.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: What do you make uh I I've I've uh been shown some of these tests now that you can take to show based on your body which psychedelic would be compatible with your body.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody showed me that.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Have you heard about that?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or what's your thoughts on that?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: I have, you know, and and I've I fall I look at a lot of this.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a researcher myself, I read everything that comes out.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I have to admit, I am a huge fan of the mystery of life too.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: That not everything has to be put into an algorithm.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think our AI I think our AI overlords take over our planet.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think I believe I love art and science.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love I love the mystery of not like what I think the biggest what I love the most about working with folks in this area is when they come back online to their own inner healer and their own knowing what is best for them.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're intuition.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Inner healer.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, their inner their inner healer, their their intuition comes back online and they know.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think people have to do a whole bunch of psychedelics, but I do think you can you can too as you tune in, like as you heal, you may realize that the next best best step for you is to get out on that mountain bike in nature every day.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that that is your church, that is your healing.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: You are connecting with all that is out there.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe in a year's time, because your intuition is more online, maybe you're like, okay.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I I would say that there's definitely a calling.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Once you've opened up your mind to this potential area of treatment, there is definitely a calling.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean I felt it with ayahuasca.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: I knew when I had to go back for another one.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing with ketamine.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted, I knew when I needed to get back, regardless of my, you know, wanting to do it once a month.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: But there was uh a time for it because I had I wanted to get better.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to take the next step.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really common with a lot of uh the the approach to psychedelics from your maybe from your patients where they might call you up.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do they do they ever call you up and say, look, I'm I'm I want to try something different or I'm I'm feeling like I need to do something else?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very, very commonly.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And again, we lay a big buffet table.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like we say it is the psychedelic is absolutely great, and you have to do all the other parts of life.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: You have to exercise, you have to move your body, you have to be in nature, you have to eat real food, you have to laugh, you have you know, you have to be with people.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so we we seed all of that too.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: We want people to be whole humans.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's nobody right?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have that.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's simply a tool in that that that basket.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if and if people are just saying, no, I'm just gonna sit at home and take ketamine, but they're not gonna go exercise, well, you know, that our work is to get them moving their body so they enjoy moving their body and do something they like.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: So and and exactly what you're saying.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And when people are doing all those other things, they absolutely know they come, they will absolutely do that and call it.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: We do know that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh it it's obvious.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and this is one of our points of contention here in America, is that, you know, regardless of your insurance system, your healthcare model, they all do not cover, you know, psychedelic therapy because it's not FDA approved, right?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yet we have like almost 100% of the people that we talk to that have been through any of the psychedelics you've talked to that have had brain injuries and then subsequent mental health problems, they have all said, this has improved my life.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yet my daughter's a nurse practitioner of psychiatric medicine, she has a 25% chance that the SSRI that she has to prescribe, because her patients are not offered anything else, will be effective.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, why is it that we cannot get out of this even in Canada, if you have to file a claim for every person in order to prescribe, you know, why are we in our own way when it comes to a more effective, more cost-effective way of dealing with chronic pain, chronic mental illness, and more importantly, being able to effectively treat the brain or heal it better than well, as well as the electronic modalities that are out there.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why are we still is it just the the state, the shareholders that are in the way?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this just, you know, you know, or is this just a pure institutional bureaucratic model because there is the sniff of of profit behind this whole thing, you know, if you ask me?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think if if we could solve that, we would be uh kings of the world.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I I I think I mean I we have given away a lot of our power, and this is an opportunity.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: I we talk about this with doctors and nurses all the time.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Step into leadership positions and make the changes.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: We are the system, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: We are the if we can own it and say we're we're the system.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: If we want the system to be different, then we're gonna have to step up, do things like you're doing, do the podcasts.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna we have to talk to politicians and policymakers and say we want this and we want it now.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: You guys are very fortunate in the U.S.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: that most states have ballot initiatives.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that way the citizens can speak.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have that in Canada.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: We have to really work at it through the courts a lot more.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: But we we don't want to really don't give up our control.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: We like we, if this is something we want as citizens, as physicians, as nurses, as therapists, as people who have No.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, and I think more you know it and in the end, they're they're the they become so sick of of writing these prescriptions, and all these prescription pills have black box warning.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like literally, every SSRI, every SSNI, every benzo has a black box warning, of which the patient obviously is not told.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, do you know you could kill yourself if you take this pill?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I wouldn't want to take the darn thing, right?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Or over time they end up killing you anyways, according to, you know, their impacts on the body.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it, yeah, it is a very, very uh, you know, it it's uh it's a very immoral system right now that to your point, you know, we can take back.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that uh as we get louder, and the and and the other point is understanding the issue that these are not recreational drugs.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: These are medically prescribed drugs that have a profound positive impact on the brain, on the mental well-being and and and and the lifespan of our athletes, veterans, and kids.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Why, not that we're proposing kids for psychedelics, but uh, you know, when they become adults, but but why is this not even an option right now?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I think to your point, there's a lot of people that are on the other side of that, um, you know, fighting against it.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the times are changing.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: The word is getting out, there is a lot more momentum.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, last topic.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: So there there are these these churches where these medicines are are being used honestly and um divinely as as sacraments.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm incredible.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Bruce, I'm so I'm optimistic.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I think we are ready, we are ready for this change and and people like you that are doing these podcasts and speaking out.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the other part is speaking out.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: As a physician, I have no problem speaking out and saying these are these are medicines.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: They help people.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is the reason I And we are.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: One last topic before we close microdosing.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's all over the place.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's doing it.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, what what's your um what what's your perspective on microdosing?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: When is it effective?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what types of psychedelics could be used for uh microdosing?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Psilocybin seems really great for the the neuroinflammation, reducing it and helping create these new pathways.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen that with a lot of athletes, especially hockey players, like I've seen them with their microdosing really get their stick handling.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Hand eye coordination just phenomenal.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have lots of case reports on hand-eye coordination getting so much better with psilocybin.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: I begin obviously as a uh Really?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Dr.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Crisco, as we close, I always like to give our guests uh some time to talk about themselves.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Where can people find you?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, do you have any publications out there they should be looking at?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what's gonna happen next in the life of Dr.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Pamela Chrisko?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Bruce.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I spend most of my time with a beautiful little nonprofit in Canada called Roots to Thrive.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Roots to Thrive.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: We do psychedelic therapy um on Vancouver Island.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we publish it.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Dr.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Chrisko, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: May the God may God bless you on this journey because it's a very important one.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: People need to understand that there are alternatives to psychiatry, I mean to pharmaceutical intervention, that these medicines are God driven and that they exist for us to get better.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And when especially when we have brain injuries, they are becoming more and more of an outlet for our athletes and veterans to rely upon to get well.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: So have a, you know, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I cannot thank you enough for what you're doing uh for people in your as as as a servant to others.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Looking forward to seeing you again.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Folks, another great show uh uh here on Broken Brains.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, if you don't have it, free book on the website, Broken Brains, Youth Contact Sports, get it, read it, become informed so you can make decisions about your law, about the ones you love.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget our app on the Google and Apple Play Store, uh Head Smart, the only concussion app with repetitive head impact information on it.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So again, become informed on these issues.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank you so much for listening to our podcast.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you like this episode, please do uh be sure to follow us on Instagram at Broken Brains Podcast or subscribe on YouTube at Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can, like us, subscribe us, leave a review on Apple, Spotify, wherever you've looked at the podcast, because it helped us get it helps us get the word out uh about this unfortunate cause of mental illness and how we can better deal with it with our society.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, if you have children, remember they only have one melon.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Please take care of it, keep them out of contact sports at least till high school.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Read the book, you'll understand scientifically why that's there, and then let them become the person that God intended them to do to be.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Till next time on Broken Brains.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you again.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: God bless you all and take care.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Bye bye.