Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 577. A Framework to Change the Way We Change The World - Heather Hiscox

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577. A Framework to Change the Way We Change The World - Heather Hiscox · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm Becky.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: And this is the we Are For Good podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: So welcome to the good community.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: So let's get started, becky, what's happening?
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Do you remember when we were little and we were like we're going to go change the world?
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: We actually brought somebody on the podcast who has a framework.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Like you can do it today.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Today is the day.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, no more talking all the doing.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, like we've been counting down this conversation.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: It's been a little bit long overdue.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Around here we have Heather Hiscox on the podcast.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: She's the founder and CEO of pause for change.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Now we're talking about pause everywhere you look.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Look, we are for good.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Right now we're coming out of impact at pause.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: This is mental health week on the podcast, and we want to create spaces that we don't rush through life.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: We're taking stock of the moment.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: We're really listening to what the data and what our bodies and what all the different pieces are telling us.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: So we've got an expert.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Like Becky you just said.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: We want to lean into what is a proven framework for changing the way we change the world.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm saying that slow because I really want us to double click on what that means.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Like, how do we actually be that change?
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: And so Heather's this founder.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: You know I've shared that she's with pause for change, which is an organization that helps change makers address difficult challenges.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Using this pause framework, it'll help you gain certainty about which solutions will create the greatest impact while using fewer resources and less time.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Please, more of that, heather.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you for figuring that out.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: She's also the co-creator of the Possibility Project, which is an online conversation series and growing community of disruptive change makers.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, and we also have to talk about your incredible book.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: She's the author of no More Status Quo, which rolls out this proven framework for change and the way that we want to change the world.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: We're just here for all of this.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: She's a frequent speaker at conferences and events talking about shifting the status quo practices in our work, and she is from Tucson, arizona.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: We were just cruising through the beautiful Saguaro National Park a few months ago.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: You're in a beautiful part of the country.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Just so honored that you're here today.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Heather, welcome to the we Are For Good podcast.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: We're really excited you're here.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's so wonderful to be here, and it has been a long, beautiful journey to get here to be with you both today.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: For sure hey worth the wait.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: You're always right on time here.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: My friend, would you kind of take a second and take us back, Like, give us some context to your story.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about growing up.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: What were some formative moments that led you to you know, chase this work and really pour into it in your professional career?
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was one of those At the time.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: I thought I was a really strange kid who, I think at the age of seven, same C's I want to change the world.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: That's just what I grew up thinking and my mom tells this story about.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: I was a little kid, you know, crying at night and she's like what's going on, baby, what do you need?
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: And I was like racism, mama, racism.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: And she was like oh my, you are different, you are a special kid, you know.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: It's no shocker.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: My mom was always involved in grassroots organizing.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: She was always involved in social issues in our community growing up.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: So I saw her living and acting and responding.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: So I saw that as a kid and I integrated that into what I knew to be true and valuable.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: And then my dad was the practical one.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: That was like how are you going to get this done?
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: Don't just run around with all this passion Like what are the nuts and bolts?
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: Like what's the plan?
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Don't just run around with all this passion Like what are the nuts and bolts?
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Like what's the plan?
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: How are?
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: How do we do this?
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: So it was a wonderful blending of this sort of bold visionary with a tactical strategy person.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: So yeah, that was, that was little Heather.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: And then, as I grew up and I started working in the sector you know, working with local government, working with nonprofit, working with philanthropy I just found that I was still that question asker that I had been since I was a little kid just sensationally curious of why don't we do it this way?
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: I don't really think this is working Like.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: Am I the only one?
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: Does anyone else see this?
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: I'm so frustrated and I don't know if I should be or could be, or am I by myself in these feelings.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: So that's really led me to the work that I do now is finding people that match those feelings, that are dissatisfied, they're frustrated, they want to reimagine what's possible, they want to live in that tension of working you know, a full-time job in this space, while you also want to burn it to the ground in many places and spaces oh my gosh.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Very relatable yeah Right so it's like how do we show up, how do we, how do we live in those spaces?
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: So that that's you know a little me, professional me, and now disruptor me of the evolution, yeah.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I love that you ended with that's disruptor me, and I think that there are way more disruptors than we could have all ever imagined, particularly in this moment in time.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: And I want to thank you for writing this book, because John and I I think it was specifically when we were in healthcare philanthropy we figured out this like rote cadence and it was like anytime we asked a question and somebody said, we said what is this and why are we doing it that way?
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: And if they said, well, that's the way it's always been done, that was like this red flag that came out of the top of our heads and was like, okay, note to self, completely audit and rebuild that from ground up.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: You know, or at least evaluate is it serving us in the way that it needs to serve us in the modern world?
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: So I love this idea about shifting the status quo practices that we have just long held onto in this social impact work.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: So we are here for this.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: We are here for all of the shift that's happening right now, the evolution that the sector's going through.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Last week, we gathered for our quarterly impact up, whose theme was all about pause and focusing on this wellness and mental health.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: How do we rebuild, how do we retool our minds to have different habits, have different behaviors, different beliefs.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: So talk to us about where we start, when we want to start shifting the status quo, practices and social impact.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you said it.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: When those red flags go off, when you notice things and you're like this doesn't feel right, this doesn't feel modern or useful.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I don't see myself in this.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't give to this, I wouldn't open this email.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, all of those things.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it doesn't feel just, it doesn't feel equitable, it doesn't feel accessible, it doesn't feel right.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: That's what I think, what we need to focus on that spidey sense that we get of when we design solutions and we have never talked to the internal staff or external community members that are going to be most impacted by that program, policy or process.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: That should be like fire alarm, you know, bells ringing in your ears because that makes no sense, that is foolishness.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: But that's what we do in the sector.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: We get into the habit of having a cue, kind of having that alert like something's wrong, we must respond or something's possible, and then we go straight into brainstorming and implementation.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: And the people usually with the most institutional power they're, they're ready to come up with the ideas in their own little silo and generate their thoughts about what we're going to do.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: They go into change management.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: They put everything into implementation and execution.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: And then staff.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: I think that's where we feel kind of icky and that's the part that does most affect our mental health often is that we're building in disconnection.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: We've never been consulted about the creation and the ideas.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: We've never engaged with our beloved community members to really understand what they've tried and tapped into their assets and abilities and abundance.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: We've never tested anything before we start building, so we start to go all in and it feels very risky and very overwhelming and very disempowering.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: So that's what the pause framework is about it's just asking different questions to get us to a different place of challenging the typical way that we get going with brainstorming and execution.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, we definitely want to create space to walk through that framework, because I feel like we all need that.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: The things you're describing feel very similar to our experiences in this work, but I want to ask you something about habits for a second, because sometimes our habits, like the things that we do on rotation, reinforce the status quo, right?
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you see that in our work, or what's your thoughts, as that stirs up?
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, because in that habit cycle there's the cue, there's the reaction, the reward, and so we have to interrogate the cues when is this coming from?
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: Who's asking us to do more or different and has all these ideas?
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: And then what is our typical habit of response?
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: Because we as individuals have ways that we respond to uncertainty.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: It's just our reflex and we don't really pause or slow down to think about how do I respond to my feelings of uncertainty and discomfort.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Most people want that secretion of dopamine, they want to get to decision making, they want to choose a path forward because it bio, biologically, biochemically, makes you feel better, makes you feel more comfortable and less, you know, anxious.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: And then we get rewarded.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: So that's where the cultural dynamics of organizations start to reinforce bad habits.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: Is there's a reward?
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: There's a known reward for action.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: We are rarely supported or celebrated for inaction, for slowing down or pausing or reflection.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: We are rewarded for action and immediate and urgent speed.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: And so it's like what can we do as individuals to acknowledge our own behaviors?
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: But also we're part of this mix.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: We're part of this larger context of our organizations and the sector overall.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: So good.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I think this is just stirring up so much for me and like what the one-to-one could ripple If we start to change some of our habits.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: If we start to change some of our habits, if we start to change some of our behaviors, if we socialize not only what they're doing but how it's impacting the work, how it's also impacting the human concurrently, that's when I think the compounding nature of impact just really starts to ripple.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: So you're getting me really excited about what is possible here.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: But we got to get into this framework that John sort of teased up, because no matter the size of the organization, it's guaranteed we're going to be faced with uncertainty, like at some point in our work.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: So walk us through this, what you have called the pause framework, and I want to say to everybody Heather did not brand this, for we Are For Good, and we Are For Good did not brand our impact up with Heather's language.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: It just happens to work out that that is the alignment.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: So walk us through this incredible pause framework and we want to know how leaders can leverage it when they're faced with this sort of risk and this moment of doubt, because we want them to be able to have those tools to be grounded and to push forward.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I love this synergy of pause Absolutely and that's why I came up with the name for the acronym is.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: That was the number one advice I gave to all of my clients was slow down, hold up a minute, hang on, let's talk.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: Let's think it's so antithetical.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: The P is package the challenge.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: So what I found early in working with organizations is I could ask five different people what the challenge was and I would get five different answers.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: So I thought if we don't have alignment on what we even notice or the symptoms, we can't move forward because we have to be on the same page.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: So that's part of that information sharing and communication that a lot of us are missing.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: So we get aligned and then we think about who are all.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: A lot of us are missing.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: So we get aligned and then we think about who are all the different stakeholders who are impacted, because usually it's not a one size fits all solution that's actually going to create value and impact.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: We have to really deeply understand the internal and external people that are really part of this challenge and part of the potential solution.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: So it's all about co-designing with our stakeholders.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: Challenge and part of the potential solutions.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: So it's all about co-designing with our stakeholders.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: The A is assess uncertainty, and this was a huge piece.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: That was not part of the early framework, but I added it because what I realized was that for people to be prepared to listen to stakeholders, they had to understand what they don't know.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: They had to understand their own bias and they had to understand what it means to listen, because they needed to understand their own positionality and how they are really the only one that sees the world that, the way that they see the world.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: They had to realize that before they could be empathetic and would not invoke harm and empathy, which can happen.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: So we talk about informed consent, we talk about excellent questions we can ask and we go out and do one-on-one interviews with stakeholders and we find out what they've tried, what they're noticing, what they need, and then the S is solution testing.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Only then you can tell I'm in step four-ish of the framework because it is fluid.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: Only then do we start to brainstorm.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: Normally we go ah, there's a problem Brainstorm.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: How do we brainstorm before we've talked to the people most impacted?
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: That makes no sense.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: So once we brainstorm abundantly, we don't just brainstorm the way we typically do, locked in power, dynamics and silos.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: We brainstorm abundantly and then we try to break our solution.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: We don't hold it as precious and untouchable and something that's make or break.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: We say, okay, what about?
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: This must be true.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: What are the assumptions embedded in the solution?
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: What must be true for this solution to actually create impact let's test it in hours and weeks with our stakeholders and let's make evidence, informed decisions.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: So that's the E of the POS framework is how do we get away from these pet projects and power dynamics and actually communicate with decision makers with qualitative and quantitative data to say you know what?
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: We don't know if this is going to work either, but we've tested the seven riskiest pieces of this idea and we either know it's no good and why, or we know it's amazing and we know why.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: So that's what teams learn to.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: They learn these skills in a matter of days and they practice them right away and they see a complete transformation in what they learn and the answers that they get.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm obsessed with this concept of testing in community, like in real time, getting real feedback, and not just the quantitative parts, which I feel like we get so hung up on the numbers, which y'all I'm not blaming anyone who's listening right now, because the sector, historically, for decades, has had us trapped in these numbers, thinking that those are the only things that we need to be tracking.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: But this qualitative portion, this why behind, why people connect the stories, the end points, like there's so much that's there that could be radically unlocked.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: So I think this is brilliant.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Keep going.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Heather or John, did you want to jump in here?
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, heather, we're both just so obsessed with this framework because we're looking for less overwhelm too, so it's hard not to start to apply this in our own life over here.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: But would you take us into an example, like, I mean, you've worked with so many clients and, obviously, writing your book.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: You looked at a lot of examples too.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: What does it look like in practice to walk through this framework?
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: Oh, great question.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: I'm actually working with a cohort of seven organizations right now and they're in the midway point and it was so beautiful to hear all the ahas.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: And they've only been working on this for about a month and a half, using the skills just a couple hours here and there.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: And one organization that I love.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: There had been what we call some chisme, like some gossip in the community about them.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: They had had a leadership transition.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: They had been around for 40 years.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: The founder had started the organization you know, it's a tale as old as time.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: They had a mission drift over time and the founder had left and there was a new leader and the leader was now stepping into this perceived negativity about the organization and they said you know, we've got to talk to these people one-on-one, we've got to understand their perceptions, their needs.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: We need to right the ship.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: And so we said, all right, okay, we get the delicacy, we get the sensitivity in this challenge.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: So let's ask, you know, really thoughtful questions around our greatest areas of uncertainty.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: And they interviewed about 30 people and every single interview was positive.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Every person they talked to was like, oh, why I just haven't met you yet?
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: It's so great to meet you and you know it's so great to hear about your plans for the organization.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: And you know I didn't realize the original intent of the organization was to support adults with developmental disabilities through workforce opportunities.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: I thought you were this over here.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: But that's awesome, like wow, the fact that you're going to do more deeply integrate that mission into what you do.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: How can I be of service?
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: How can I engage more deeply?
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: And they were just blown away.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: So their challenge wasn't even correct.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: And then it just connected them in a whole new way with these people who felt so honored to be called and to be asked these questions and to be asked to co-design the future.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: And now they're having totally different conversations around educational opportunities and ideas for events.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: And what I love about the team is they're like we have learned not to just go build it, but we now need to get more deep feedback about what does it mean to have an educational event?
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: What's the value you want from that?
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: How can you be involved?
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: So they're just continuing to use the tools in their new toolbox to co -design this future of the organization.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: So I just love that example.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: It was so beautiful and so fun to hear this week.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's like the beauty of human-centered design and it's giving me just reflections.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: John from like Michael J Fox Foundation, did this on their Facebook, with their community, with their Facebook group, in an incredible way that absolutely helped them scale.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I think about Amy Freitag over at the New York City Community Trust and they went to their organization and all of their individuals and they were over 100 years old and said we got to modernize, we want to show up and serve you in the modern way that you need us right now.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: What does that look like?
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: And it blew their minds.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: What they found out and I think what I'm getting at here is there is so much power in the pause, when you stop, when you listen, when you ask questions, when you go to the person one-on-one and share your vision and share what's possible.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: So much is there to be unlocked.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: And I just think people they love to be asked their opinion.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: They love to be asked their opinion.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: They love to be asked their opinion on their one of their favorite topics, which is likely one of your why they came to your mission, because they absolutely love what you're doing in the world.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: So this practice of pausing, this practice of evolving and being very measured in it.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Heather, I'm just truly obsessed with it.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: I think this is wonderful.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Can you like maybe lift a case study of an organization?
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Shoot, you just said that, didn't you, john?
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: I was trying to get to, like, is there a story of evolution that you've seen and I don't know if you can name an organization, but we would just love to hear, like someone who took this practice, took this framework from soup to nuts, how did it go?
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: How are they doing right now?
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: There is one that I love and I have been in connection with them, I think, for like eight years, and so it's been a long long since you know our very first interactions together, when they first came to me, they had a board member that was causing trouble and the board member was retired Also relatable.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: So true, we all know that board member we're thinking of right now.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: We have them in our mind's eye.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: It's like the idea of people like we should do this, we should do this.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: You're just like very well-meaning yes, very well-meaning yes.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: So this this person was a retired executive, lots of time on their hands, and they wanted to start a community garden and so they created this massive binder and they had been tracking their time.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: They had spent 700 hours on the plan for the garden.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: They had gotten land from the local government provided they had put together like planting schedules, volunteer schedules, everything but the executive director and started interviewing people.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: Because what was fascinating is this organization was telling community members and fundraising around the fact that they lived in a food desert.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: But when we started talking to people and learning about their diets and shopping and access, they were not in a food desert.
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: They had a rainbow of vegetables and fruits, they had pretty healthy diets.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: They felt pretty well connected to resources.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: So we were kind of serving that up to the leadership and to this board member and he still would not take it.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: He still was like, okay, no, we got to do it.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: We thought, okay, twilight zone moment, let's keep going.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: So we said what else has to happen?
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: And we said volunteers.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: You have to have volunteers to make this happen.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: You don't, you don't have farmers showing up to do this.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: So we made him send out a message to his network alone and about 80 people in his network said I'm there for you, this is awesome, I'll volunteer.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: We said, okay, we need to raise the hurdle.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: We need to make that hurdle a bit higher and say, okay, you need to come to this meeting at this opportunity and you're going to sign up for your volunteer spot.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: So we really wanted them to commit.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: Only three people came to the meeting and I joke that one of them was his wife, so she doesn't quite count in this.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: So two of all those buddies that were like I'm with you, we're really with you, and that's why we have to test these solutions that were like I'm with you, we're really with you, and that's why we have to test these solutions.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: So this person, this board member, he came to me, wanted to have a private chat and he cried.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: He cried in the meeting and he was so ashamed and felt so guilty about the amount of time he had spent and had derailed the organization with this conversation and with this focus that he was like I've got to step away.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: He left as a board member, he stepped away from the organization.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: But the value that that executive director, you know, years and years ago, said is anytime now anyone comes to me with an idea, I now can say we value our resources, we optimize our resources and we value our community and our team.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: So if you have an idea, join me.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: And identifying what we need to learn, and going to talk to people and be involved.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: And invariably about half the time those people then fade into the background because they're like, oh no, I just had the idea, I'm not, I'm not going to do work, bye, I'm not the executor.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so they take off, but the people that stick around, she gets to deeply involve and engage in potential solutions, as they do come up as options and they are always learning.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: I ran into them at a conference a couple of years ago and they were telling me a story where they forgot the skills for a minute and didn't co-design and how it backfired, and it was like a good injection of a reminder of how to pause and how to use the skills.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: So they're always using it.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: I mean seven, eight years later now they're still using the skills anytime they have uncertainty.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Wow, gosh, and eight years plus a pandemic, that's a long time, you know, it's really a lot of years.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's like 50 years and nonprofit years.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of years.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Totally exactly, oh my gosh, yeah, and they've grown so much as an organization.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: They're just awesome yeah.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah Well, I mean, this conversation is so good because we're in community with change makers that are sitting in that uncertainty all the time.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I love that you've giving us this ability to move forward, to have more confidence in our solutions and not to always have to say yes to everything, and there's a path way to.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Where do you park, where do you take these ideas?
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: How do you really kind of move through this?
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I think this conversation is super helpful, my friend.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you, though, about philanthropy.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're empowering teams so they can do their work more.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: You get to run alongside them.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Is there a moment that has really stuck with you as you've seen philanthropy unfold?
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: It could be a small moment of kindness from your childhood, or it could be, you know, working alongside one of these organizations along the way.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: What's a moment of philanthropy that stuck with you?
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love this question and I have been thinking about it so much and what I want to connect it to is, yes, the work is beautiful.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: What I see is the philanthropy is like the giving and the sharing and the power of connection that I love, that I see in my teams and my work.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: But what this really thought made me think about was in my current role as caregiver.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: I take care of my mom, I take care of my husband, who's currently disabled, recovering from cancer, and you know, one thing that has really come up for me a lot is how philanthropy is so focused on like foundations, giving dollars to nonprofits, and how lace with power and like fear and strange dynamics and all all that stuff that we know happens with that.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: But what I've seen in philanthropy in our journey of asking for help or not even asking, is you know, people like the chiropractor that my husband sees, knowing that financially now we're living off just my income, has now offered him trade, has said you know, I don't have to take cash for these services.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: Can you come to my house and consult with me, because he was a home remodeler for 20 years?
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: Can you come to my house and help me with some projects.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: You know I'm a single mom.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: Could you some help?
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: Don't have a handyman that I know and trust.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Can you come do that and I'll work on your body Like that was such a beautiful moment of identifying you know that time, talent, treasure, right, that we forget about.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: Or like his sister, when we were in Chicago this summer, visiting where he's from, you know, paying for him to go to the chiropractor to get an adjustment while we were there, and then the chiropractor learning that we were going to go to a Cubs game and talking to his wife and getting us the opportunity to take photos at home plate after the game.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: It's like I think of philanthropy you know, it's the definition of love, of humankind, right?
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: I think of it as those small moments where we make room for another person, where we're so thoughtful and we're so focused on what else might really brighten someone's day, what would be so helpful to them.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: And, like my friend of mine just sent me money on Venmo so I get to hire a housekeeper when we're out of town next week, because that would really be helpful on our family, right.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: It's just like moments of kindness and thoughtfulness have really made all the difference in our recovery journey.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: And it's made me think about we focus so much on self-care, self-care, self-care.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: But Desiree Attaway shared on a Possibility Project episode and she talked about the importance of community care.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: Self-care is so isolating and individualistic and it reinforces these negative cultural aspects that we have that make us bootstrap it and go alone in isolation.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: But what I have found is that we need to get better at community care, because if I had more people showing up like these beloveds in my network, I wouldn't have to do as much self-care because I wouldn't feel alone.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: I would feel seen and heard.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: I would feel like people were carrying me in their hearts and minds.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: So I challenge us in the sector with all of our love and care I mean, we're amazing and our best of intentions in our work to take philanthropy to a different level where we're talking about reciprocity and mutuality and community and collective care.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: We get away from this go it alone mentality.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I mean I feel like you've just rounded out this conversation so beautifully, heather, because that call for collective care, that is healing, that is growth, that is shift, that is everything.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: And as a self-professed human being who is so awful at asking for help but wanting to help everyone around me, this is my reminder to you out there that we have to ask for help.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: We cannot go alone or we're going to break.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: And I thank you for these beautiful stories of generosity which, here I come on my soapbox I promise John's only going to be for a hot minute but all these reports and these messages that tell you that giving is down, it is not friends, it is re-imagined how we measure.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Giving financially may be down, but what you just described there is the diversification of generosity and brilliant, human and impactful new ways.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: I mean it truly reminds me of my father was a pediatrician when I was growing up and he used to have a woman that would come and pay him in eggs, like she had all of these chickens.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: She didn't have anything and I remember I would always know when she came because we would have, like you know, 36 eggs in our fridge and it would be like quiche week and we would have like breakfast sandwiches for lunch and these kinds of things, but also I would think about her as we were eating and in the reciprocity, the intersectionality of all of us.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: That is the beauty.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: So thank you for bringing it back, and so I'm not sure how you're going to be able to put a better bow on this, but you know, we end all of our conversations with a one good thing.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: It could be a piece of advice, maybe a story or a quote that really moved you.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: What would you leave with our community today is your one good thing?
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I it's.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: It is to pause.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: And you know what I've learned in this journey of you, know my professional journey, and they're not separate right.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: My personal and professional are intertwined.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: I contain multitudes, I'm intertwined fully.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: But what I have learned is that that power of pausing, the power of asking different questions, the power of reflection, the power of critical thought, the power of working in teams to really see the superpowers of other people is absolutely amazing and it is life changing, it's impact changing.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: And then in my personal life, what I would challenge us all to do because I was that person before my partner's diagnosis that my work was my identity, my productivity was my value I didn't know how to separate the two.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: I had no hobbies, I just was raising my kids, showing up for everyone else in my life, doing all the things, launching another business, doing another thing, and what it really did is it was a forced pause, it was against my will.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: I had to pause, I had no choice and in that then I saw what really matters.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: I saw what matters are the people in your life that you can call at any moment and say I need you now.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: I need you here to show up for me, if you find yourself working so hard but you don't have a list of those people, it's time to reprioritize and rethink how you're operating in your life.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: So I would reinforce you're pausing not just for impact and all those different things be better than certainty, but you're pausing for what true life is really about, and it's for delight and it's for enjoyment.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: We have a short time here, so we're just working ourselves to the bone, deeply sad and isolated.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: That is not why we were here to spend this time.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: So it's just asking people to pause in a different way of what makes them feel joyful, what makes them feel connected, what makes them feel empowered.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Gosh, I feel like we got two TED Talks at the end of this episode.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, what stirs up in me is that so many of our really deep friendships have come through this community.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I think when you gather in value, aligned community anymore it's very easy to just like start the conversation, because I think of so many people in our world now that have met through the.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: We are for good community.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: That just reached out when someone said something that triggered interest or a shared passion or I heard this said and those friendships like can surround you.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: So, if you're feeling that like, this is a place to find those people, if you don't have them in your life, because they're here for the taking generative humans.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: So, okay, heather, as we're rounding out.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: You got to tell us about your amazing book.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: No more status quo.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: We want to give it a formal book launch here.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: I mean you had a lot of life going on.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Let's celebrate this book where people can get it and then connect us on the ways people can find you, specifically online.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the book is no More Status Quo.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: You can find it anywhere.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: You buy books online.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: It's an audio book, e-book and paperback and you know the book was just living under my skin, I think, for more than a decade.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: I wrote the book in three weeks and it just gushed out.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: It was just so ready, I was so on my flow and I'm a story collector.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: I have like a literal story database of aha moments and beautiful things that I've collected, and so I wanted to put those stories in there, because right now they were only for the folks that I get to work with and they can afford to hang out with me.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: So the book is a detailed discussion of how I think we got here, how to challenge best practices.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: About 30% is like you are not alone.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: You can want to burn it to the ground and still show up on Monday.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: And then the rest of the book is the really nitty gritty details of how to use the skills, with examples, with real life stories, so you feel like you can do it yourself and feel inspired.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: And then there's reflection at the end of each section to really help you integrate the knowledge and how you are changed from the learning journey that you have, so anyone can find out more at nomorestatusquobookcom.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: And then all of my consulting work and the other examples and what motivates and drives this work are on pauseforchangecom.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: And then, if you want to be a part of some very sassy conversations and an amazing community of troublemakers, yes, go to possibilityprojectorg.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: We've had about 116 speakers, 51 episodes and they're just real, like I said, spicy, sassy, imperative conversations that we have about our work in social sector.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: So check those out and then connect with me on LinkedIn, send me an email.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: I always want to talk to people and support them in any way that I can.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Well, heather, you have come to the right community, because we say we are the insurgents, we are the disruptors, we are the torchbearers here in this space that are going to usher in a new modern evolution for the sector.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't just start and stop, but we are for good.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: These friends are everywhere.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: So gather your friends who think and feel this way, who work with you, who are your allies in this work.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Please come check out Heather's work and my friend, thank you for this incredible discussion.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: We are wrapping our arms around you as you navigate your husband's recovery, your mother's care, and just know we're sending so much love to you on behalf of the sector of which you've poured so much into.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: We recognize and appreciate you for it.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: I received that and I appreciate it so much.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: You're a treasure, rooting for you.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you.