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Prequel to Perfect Blue - Kiki's Delivery Service Fan Reaction, Satoshi Kon · This Film is Lit

• 0:08
  Speaker A: On this week's prequel episode, we follow up on our Kiki's delivery service listener polls, learn about director Satoshi Kon, and preview perfect blue hello and welcome back to another prequel episode of this film is lit, the podcast where we talk about movies that are based on books. It's another prequel episode. We have all of our segments, so we'll jump right in to our patron shoutouts.
• 0:37
  Speaker B: I put up with you because your father and mother were our finest patrons, that's why.
• 0:41
  Speaker A: Kind of one new patron this week. Not really, though. It's a free member, but I figured I'd say it anyways. Miles Davis I had to. I mean, apparently from the grave. Miles Davis is a fan of the podcast. Appreciate that.
• 0:54
  Speaker B: I hope Miles Davis changes his name to not that Miles Davis.
• 0:57
  Speaker A: Not that Miles Davis. We do have a growing a list of people that, yeah, that are shared names with famous celebrities. But yes, thank you, Miles Davis, for jumping on and following us on Patreon. And as always, we have our Academy Award winning patrons, and they are Nicole Goble, Eric Harpo Rat, Nathan Vic, Apocalypse, Mathilde Steve from Arizona InT. Draft Teresa Schwartze ian from wine country, Winchester's forever, Kelly Napier Gratch. Just gratch. Shelby's torn between promoting Arctic fox copywriting and telling you to read Ocean's Echo and watch Deadpool and Wolverine. That darn Skag v. Frank and Alina Starkov, thank you all very much for your continued support. Katie, let's see what people had to say about Keke's delivery service.
• 1:52
  Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, that's just like your opinion, Mandy. On Patreon, we had five votes for the movie, two for the book, and one listener who couldn't decide. Kelly Napier said, I was very close to calling this a couldn't decide, but I ended up going for the book over the movie. I liked some of the vignettes in the book that the movie cut. I thought it would have looked cute to see Kiki figuring out how to make the clock work before midnight on New Year's Eve. And I would have loved to see the train heist and the visual of the instruments being strung behind her broom. And I liked at the end of the book, when she went home to visit instead of just writing a letter home. I thought it was good to bookend the story with her parents and have her realize while visiting that she is truly going to be okay on her own. I mean, I would tend to agree. I don't remember if I mentioned that or not.
• 2:46
  Speaker A: You mentioned liking. I think you had in better in the book that she actually physically.
• 2:49
  Speaker B: Yes, she does go home. Although I understand why.
• 2:52
  Speaker A: Expand on your reason for putting it in better in the book. But you didn't mention it.
• 2:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, but I understand why the movie wouldn't. Cause that would be like, a whole additional several scenes.
• 3:02
  Speaker A: Well, I think they could have done similar to the letter that they used over the credits. We could have had a little vignette during that credit montage where she visits and they hug her. You know what I mean? We could have had a little.
• 3:17
  Speaker B: In order to have her go back and visit and also communicate that she's not gonna stay.
• 3:23
  Speaker A: Yes. That specific. Well, yeah, I think you could have had that be the beginning of. I think it could have been done. My point, like, during that little montage over the credits, you could have had. The first scene is her getting home, they all hug, and then we see after that they like. And she like tats or whatever for a bit, and her mom makes her a potion or something. And then we see her leave again, and then we get the montage we do see at the end of the movie of her back in the city doing things like, you could have done that. But I don't know if that would have really appealed, like, satisfied what Kelly was saying here, but like, you could have done that.
• 3:59
  Speaker B: Kelly went on to say, but what strikes me as odd overall with the entire concept of the story is the idea that a 13 year old would be essentially pushed out of the nest by their parents to strike out on their own with zero support. As the parent of a twelve year old, I couldn't even imagine. And she's a well rounded kid.
• 4:16
  Speaker A: So that was obviously a thing that I didn't ask specifically about. I just kind of took it inherent to this. The magic realism of this universe.
• 4:26
  Speaker B: Just one of those weird gimmes. Yeah, you gotta go with.
• 4:31
  Speaker A: For whatever reason, I was just like, well, there are witches. And this felt like a thing. It's like, specifically a thing witches do. Doesn't say, this is like the age that all children go out into the world, specifically witches. Which, not that. I don't know. For whatever reason, my brain was just like, sure. Like, like, I did think about that. Like, I did think, like, man, that's a crazy that she's going out as 13 at 13. But like I said, I just kind of took it as part of the weird magic universe that we were in, that that happens. I will say that I don't feel like the parents pushed her out. It just seems like it's a, because, like, her dad seemed disappointed that she was leaving, but it just seems, like, kind of inherently part of.
• 5:12
  Speaker B: Yeah. A part of the world, this culture.
• 5:15
  Speaker A: This world with the witches or whatever. But I agree that it's absurd, like, that a 13 year old could navigate their way in the world. It's not absurd. Obviously, it could be possible, but more often than not, those 13 year olds would end up in terrible situations.
• 5:33
  Speaker B: Right. Yes. And Kelly's last comment was. The other thing that struck me as odd is the story taking place in a vague european country, but having all the names be rooted in japanese naming conventions, I found myself looking for a Sven or an Eric or a Hilda.
• 5:49
  Speaker A: I also thought that was interesting, that the characters are all named.
• 5:53
  Speaker B: Yeah. I'm not sure what the japanese names decision making behind that.
• 5:57
  Speaker A: I don't know how much they're all japanese names, but they're definitely not scandinavian.
• 6:03
  Speaker B: Right. Yeah.
• 6:04
  Speaker A: Cause, like, Ursula, I don't.
• 6:06
  Speaker B: There's Ursula and tombow.
• 6:08
  Speaker A: Yeah. Don't strike me as, like, a sono.
• 6:11
  Speaker B: I think. Yeah.
• 6:12
  Speaker A: Seems like a japanese kiki. I don't know. It seems like a nickname, maybe more than anything, so I have no idea. But, yeah, it's definitely not the swedish or scandinavian names, that's for sure.
• 6:28
  Speaker B: Although, to be fair, I don't think, as a kid, I ever clocked that this was supposed to be set in a scandinavian country. I think I just always assumed that it was a fantasy world.
• 6:39
  Speaker A: See, that's the same thing I felt, because I don't know if the book is supposed to take place anywhere specific. Do they?
• 6:45
  Speaker B: I don't think it's ever said.
• 6:48
  Speaker A: And so I think it's maybe more so of the idea that Miyazaki, for whatever reason, decided to set it in.
• 6:55
  Speaker B: Yeah. Or was, like, inspired by that kind of set.
• 6:58
  Speaker A: Well, because they took a trip there. But I don't know. I don't know what was the instigator for them, because they took a trip there to do research, because they were going to set it there. But I don't know what instigated the reason of setting it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know what the instigation was, if it was something from the book or the author or. Or what. I don't recall now, or I don't remember seeing it at least. But, yeah, ultimately they did. That is what they based it on. I'm not sure why. But I agree with you that the first time we watched this, I didn't know that, like, they did research on, like, Stockholm and Sweden and stuff. And I didn't. I just kind of took it as some generic fantasy world.
• 7:36
  Speaker B: Yeah, fantasy world. Seaside town.
• 7:39
  Speaker A: Town. Yeah. Like, that wasn't really anywhere specific.
• 7:43
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 7:44
  Speaker A: Cause it's not, like, japanese, but it is also not, you know, like, some of the characters look more japanese, some look more european. Like, they're not really a specific. I don't know.
• 7:56
  Speaker B: Our other comment on Patreon was from Nathaniel, who said, I gotta go with the book, because I really didn't like how the movie adapted the story. The story in both forms requires you to accept that it's totally normal for a 13 year old to venture out into the world by themselves. The book is fantastic and magical enough that this is easily doable. But the movie at times recognizes that this whole situation is weird, which creates a really weird and dark vibe. As y'all mentioned, there is the scene in the hotel where it is clear that 13 year olds can't rent a room, and it really seems like Kiki might be in danger of living on the streets. This vibe taints other parts of the movie. Like, I legit thought when the painter took Kiki to her house. Am I seeing a kidnapping? I know it's not supposed to be that way, but the movie's straddling of the line between realism and fantasy made me think about it way more than in the book.
• 8:51
  Speaker A: I will say. I will. I don't agree. Like, I get what you're saying. Obviously, it wasn't an issue for me. Cause, like I said, I just kind of bought in with the universe. But I do. I will say the specific scene in the hotel was a thing that kind of made me go, well, what were you expecting? Like, and it makes you clock it more as, like, realistic. Like, it takes it out of the. Yes. As Nathan's saying, kind of pulls the fantasy ness away. The fact that the person at the hotel's like, you're a kid. Like, what are you doing? Like, are your parents. You know what I mean? Makes you go, okay, so this isn't normal. This is weird. Like, I don't know.
• 9:27
  Speaker B: And I think maybe if the movie had pulled in a little bit more of the book's background lore about witches not being, like, very common anymore, maybe that could have kind of smoothed that over a little bit.
• 9:40
  Speaker A: Yes. But I do agree. The movie definitely pulls attention to the fact that it seems strange for this child, at least a little bit of attention to the fact that it's strange for this 13 year old to be out on their own, trying to make their way in the world when that is not a thing in pretty much any culture, modern culture. That is not the age at which right people go and make their own way in the world. Barring drastic circumstances, usually. So, yeah, it is interesting. Like I said, that hotel scene was something. Again, it didn't give me a dark vibe. It just maybe felt a little like the movie was kind of like lamp shading. The fact that it was kind of strange for this 13 year old to be doing this.
• 10:19
  Speaker B: I see. I think what the movie was attempting to do, more so than that, than call attention to the strangeness of it, was to further put Keke off of her game.
• 10:31
  Speaker A: I agree. Cause I agree that it is what it's doing, but I think it also does the other thing.
• 10:37
  Speaker B: I'm not saying that it doesn't do the other thing. I'm talking more about intent.
• 10:42
  Speaker A: Yes, I do agree that that was the intent. The intent was to put Kiki on edge and make her uncomfortable and make her feel out of her element in the same way. Not confident and not confident in the same way that all teenagers are in every situation, even in a normal teenage situation. It's just that her version of it is amplified by the fact that she's living on her own. She feels even more out of her element. But really, it's just a heightening of that universal feeling of feeling like you don't know what you're doing when you're.
• 11:14
  Speaker B: A teenager or just a person who's starting out on their own without the guidance and protection of their parents for the first time. Realistically, that might look something more like.
• 11:28
  Speaker A: An 18 year old.
• 11:28
  Speaker B: An 18 year old at college for the first time, or whatever. Not knowing. Getting lost on campus or not knowing where to go get food or trying to grocery shop for the first time. But yeah, the fantasy aspect of this heightens that.
• 11:44
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 11:45
  Speaker B: Nathan went on to say, I was also not a fan of the ending, and not just because I agree that tombow is the worst. Put the forest lesbian or Gigi on the blimp, and I'd be way more invested. The episodic nature of the book works, and the movie just felt like it took what worked from the book and tacked an unearned climax onto things. The loss of the magic seems super abrupt and unclear in its genesis. Kiki has been stressed out and a little upset the whole time. So why did her magic disappear? Now then, as y'all mentioned, the movie ignores its own more interesting suggestion that a new inspiration is needed and gives us an emergency which now substitutes for the actual personal growth the book and the movie up to that point are about.
• 12:29
  Speaker A: Again, I kind of agree with this. That's why I brought it up in the main episode. I think it still works. I would have to recall the conversation we had in the episode specifically because I felt like we landed in a place where we both agreed that it still worked.
• 12:44
  Speaker B: Regardless of that, I still wonder, and we didn't get anybody answering our question about a potential translation issue.
• 12:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know.
• 12:54
  Speaker B: I don't know because, like, I don't completely. Like, I see what Nathan is saying. I don't completely agree that the climax is unearned, but I see what's being said.
• 13:09
  Speaker A: And it was. Again, it's in line kind of with what I was saying about how seemingly the message the movie is talking about, about finding a meaning and a purpose for doing what you're doing. And then there doesn't. It doesn't seem to be what this event is like. This event doesn't seem to be a spark for her new purpose or inspiration. It just seems to be. She literally has to do this or her friend will die. And then that reacts.
• 13:38
  Speaker B: Yes. Via that, she gets her confidence back.
• 13:41
  Speaker A: But that seems, again, kind of how we talked about the episode. That doesn't really. Those two messages are slightly different.
• 13:48
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 13:49
  Speaker A: Like, one is about finding the why behind what you're doing and the other one is being confident in what you're doing, whether or not you have a very purpose driven reason for it. So I don't know. They are slightly different. And I do think that that's maybe a flaw with the script. Unless it's a translation thing, potentially. But I would agree that that is maybe an issue with the script as like a. If I were dissecting this in a screenwriting class, I feel like that would be a note I would have for Miyazaki.
• 14:22
  Speaker B: Nathan's last comment. Here was one final thought. There was a line in the book that is, to me, a perfect description of anxiety. Today. Kiki needed to go out to buy food, but she couldn't bring herself to leave her room. She's overwhelmed by the complexity of everything in the new big city. And while my city is not that big or new, boy, do I feel that sometimes? Yep. For sure.
• 14:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. People who deal with depression or anxiety. Like, I feel like that can.
• 14:51
  Speaker B: Or both.
• 14:51
  Speaker A: Or both. Yes. Or other things similar. But yes, I think that sentence can apply to a lot of. Or that feeling is something that a lot of people have understand.
• 15:02
  Speaker B: Over on Facebook, we had two votes for the movie and zero for the book. Lassa said, I didn't grow up with the movie, but saw it as a teen and instantly declared it my favorite of Miyazaki. These films, the whole vibe, the story, the music, the characters, and the animation. My God, I don't know how they do it, but you really feel the weight in the flying sequences. It's that perfect mixture of animation and sound design. The book actually didn't come out in Germany until very recently, so I picked it up a few months ago to read it for comparison's sake, and it was a really interesting experience because I went through similar stages. The filmmakers probably went through this works. Let's keep that. Oh, we can shorthand this and let's take the beach rescue scenario and rework it as the climax for the film. It was a lot of fun reading the book this way. Also, I went on Netflix to check which english dub it has over there. The german dub was more faithful to the original to begin with, and indeed the naked comment from Gigi is in there. Quite funny. Overall, I prefer the movie, but the book is really cute too. I think this would make for an interesting adaptation study in film school, but thanks to you too, the teachers have already had their work done by this podcast. Best of greetings again from Germany.
• 16:20
  Speaker A: Thank you, Alessa. Thank you.
• 16:22
  Speaker B: On Twitter we had three votes for the movie and zero for the book. Wb deadname se Blu ray out now. Two exclamation marks said, going with the movie. It's not quite my cup of tea, but as a child I probably would have quite liked it. I did fall down a rabbit hole about the english dub, as the Netflix version in the UK uses the old Disney dub and the new re edit is only on the physical release.
• 16:47
  Speaker A: Interesting. It sounds like it was the same in Germany.
• 16:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, that is interesting.
• 16:50
  Speaker A: So maybe in just all of Europe, the Netflix version has the old dub.
• 16:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder why they make that. Like, what goes into that decision making.
• 17:00
  Speaker A: We watched it on Max, which is HBO over here, their streaming service, and it's the new version or the newest version, like the 2010 redub or whatever.
• 17:11
  Speaker B: Online it was actually hard to find good videos that weren't just people complaining that the re edit was inferior and comparing it to George Lucas tinkering with Star Wars. Netflix does have the original Japanese. Not sure I have a preference, but interesting to see the differences. I'll always advocate for an intended version of a film, but also think if multiple versions exist then they should all be available too.
• 17:34
  Speaker A: The japanese version is available on HBO Max as well. I saw it when we were looking at it. We didn't watch it because I wanted to see the english version and I don't have strong feelings. Dubs versus subs in terms of anime, I know that's a whole thing. I don't really have strong feelings about that. But with the studio Ghibli films, I feel like most people watch the dubs. That's kind of the exception. Regardless of how people feel about dubs versus subs in most of the anime. I feel like for whatever reason, Studio Ghibli films generally are accepted that people watch the dubbed version of them.
• 18:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it does seem like at least in America. Yeah.
• 18:11
  Speaker A: I don't know. I could be wrong, but I always feel like people always have only ever watched the dubbed version. I'm sure there are purists who watch.
• 18:18
  Speaker B: The subtitle version, but it's also and we've talked about this before, it is tricky to watch subtitles when we're watching for the podcast.
• 18:28
  Speaker A: It's not impossible, but it is tougher.
• 18:30
  Speaker B: It can be tricky to be taking notes and having to read and then writing your notes, missing something and not realizing you're missing something. Over on Instagram, we had four votes for the movie and one for the book. True Grimlock said, I love this film. My favorite Ghibli. On threads we had one vote for the movie, zero for the book, and on Goodreads we had one vote for the movie, zero for the book. And Miko said, this was my first Ghibli movie and I enjoyed it a lot. It's one of those movies where there's something for kids and adults alike. It's not afraid of silence and slow moments, and I like that. Praising the animation is a given. I really like the small unnecessary things like Keke adjusting her skirt after recovering from a small dip while flying or trying and failing to pick up a dropped log. It just gives so much more life to the characters.
• 19:27
  Speaker A: That is a thing studio Ghibli films always do well. Yeah, those little kind of quirky animation things that people do that isn't always captured in all animation.
• 19:41
  Speaker B: The movie strings together the pretty separate incidents from a single the movie strings together the pretty separate incidents to a single plot and gives the story a better message. The it's good to meet new people one in the book, while true, felt a little tacked on as we don't actually get to know the people. Apart from maybe Asono and Tombo, I have to agree with Brian. While the geese get ready for the gust of wind, they clearly get thrown around by it with no control.
• 20:12
  Speaker A: Thank you. I actually, after, so after we recorded this while I was editing the episode, I pulled it up and I showed.
• 20:21
  Speaker B: The camera, you could tell me how wrong I was.
• 20:23
  Speaker A: Again, I wasn't telling you how wrong it was. I was like, look, watch. See? I just wanted you to see what I saw because I felt crazy that I was like, I feel like they just get thrown all over the place. And so I went back and watched it, and they kind of get thrown all over the place. They do what you said, though. They do.
• 20:38
  Speaker B: They do adjust.
• 20:39
  Speaker A: They do adjust their wings, but then when the wind hits them, they're like, they just go everywhere. So it's a. I don't know.
• 20:45
  Speaker B: Miko went on to say, you might also find better results for the belly band using their japanese name, haramaki.
• 20:54
  Speaker A: I did look that up and, yeah, that's.
• 20:57
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's definitely, I think, what it.
• 20:59
  Speaker A: Was intended, probably what it was intended to be. Haramaki, it sounds like, was traditionally like an armor, like part of armor worn with armor more traditionally, and then has progressed into other stuff. But yeah, I assume that's what the reference was to.
• 21:13
  Speaker B: Mika's last comment here was while the book was cute, it was clearly aimed for a younger audience. My vote goes to the movie.
• 21:20
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 21:21
  Speaker B: All right, so our winner for this week was the movie with 16 votes to the books, three, plus our one listener who couldn't decide.
• 21:31
  Speaker A: Very good. That is it for our listener feedback. Thank you all very much for commenting. Make sure to follow us on social media if you want to have your opinion heard about a movie or book that we talk about. But now, Katie, it's time to learn a little bit about the director of our next film, Satoshi kon.
• 21:49
  Speaker C: No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
• 21:55
  Speaker B: Satoshi Kon was a japanese film director, animator, screenwriter, and manga artist. Kon started out working as a manga artist while in college and then began working in anime animation in 1991 for the film Ryujin Zhdem. In 1997, he had his directorial debut with Perfect Blue, and he continued to work in both anime and manga through the nineties and the two thousands. A couple other of his notable projects include Millennium actress, Tokyo Godfathers, and Paprika, among other things. But those are kind of the three that I saw coming up most often other than perfect blue.
• 22:37
  Speaker A: Yes, those are the ones I reference in my segment here shortly.
• 22:42
  Speaker B: In May 2010, Cohen was diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer. His health deteriorated really quickly, and he passed in August of the same year at 46 years old. At the time of his diagnosis, he had been working on a film called Dreaming Machine, which he shelved in order to spend time with his family. According to another animator, though, Cohn disappeared in the middle of production on the movie and didn't tell anybody that he had cancer. Like, nobody, not even the producer, which.
• 23:16
  Speaker A: I can imagine something like that, and just being like, yeah.
• 23:21
  Speaker B: And I mean, I can't imagine why even.
• 23:23
  Speaker A: Why do I care? Like, why fucking deal with it? Like, I don't, like. You know what I mean? I don't really begrudge somebody in that situation.
• 23:30
  Speaker B: No, not at all. I can't imagine what I would do in that situation. But speaking of that film, in November of 2010, the production company announced that they would be completing it, with the animation director who was working on it stepping into direct. However, that project was halted in 2011 for financial reasons, and it currently remains unfinished. Many of Kahn's works explore the boundary between fiction and reality. This next thing I had to pull in directly from Wikipedia because I thought it was interesting. When asked about his interest in female characters, Kahn stated that female characters were easier to write because he is not able to know the character in the same way as a male character and can, quote, project my obsession onto the characters and expand the aspects I want to describe. And I'm not sure what that means yet, but I feel like I'm gonna find out.
• 24:27
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'm not sure. I feel like there should be there. I would need more context to that. That snippet of a quote to, like, know what he meant by that. Like, I can understand potentially, like, okay, this is female character is your rape. Because he's not able. He's a not able to know the character in the same way as a male character. I don't know. Yeah, that's interesting. I would have to. I think that it looks like a snippet of a larger conversation or, I mean, obviously to where it. Yeah, it's kind of hard to assess what that means just with that.
• 24:57
  Speaker B: Of Cohn's work, canadian filmmaker and animator Dean Deblois stated, quote, satoshi Kohn used the hand drawn medium to explore social stigmas and the human psyche, casting a light on our complexities in ways that might have failed in live action. Much of it was gritty, intense, and at times, even nightmarish. Cone didn't shy away from mature subject matter or live action sensibilities in his work and his films. Will always occupy a fascinating middle ground between cartoons and the world as we know it.
• 25:31
  Speaker A: All right. But now it's time to learn a little bit about our next book, which is perfect blue complete metamorphosis.
• 25:42
  Speaker C: Mima was a pop star.
• 25:46
  Speaker B: This is Mima's last performance with Chan.
• 25:49
  Speaker C: Who desired to become an actress.
• 25:51
  Speaker B: I really hope that I can entertain you just the same as an actress.
• 25:56
  Speaker C: But sometimes aspirations can be deadly.
• 26:00
  Speaker A: I'm always watching Mima's.
• 26:02
  Speaker C: In the world of make believe, this is when Mima proves herself. The price of fame.
• 26:09
  Speaker B: Don't worry, Mima. It'll be all right.
• 26:11
  Speaker C: May not be worth the cost of identity.
• 26:14
  Speaker B: Where did this come from? How do they know so much? Perfect Blue Complete Metamorphosis is a 1991 psychological thriller novel by japanese authorization Yoshikazu Takeuchi. The novel comments on the commodification of female sexuality and quote unquote, purity, fandom, culture turned obsessive and deadly, and the dangers of incels six years before the term was first recorded in usage. Or at least that's what it sounds like based on the reviews and articles I looked like. That I looked at.
• 26:51
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 26:52
  Speaker B: Takeuchi followed up Perfect Blue with perfect awaken from a dream in 2002. Although I had kind of a hard time determining how related the two actually are, I felt like everything I looked at said something slightly different.
• 27:08
  Speaker A: It's so fascinating when we do movies, it seems like specifically out of Japan. This happens because I had a similar experience reading some of the production notes and stuff. And I don't know if it's a. Maybe it's because this isn't that big and popular of a movie to where there's just not that much known. So what is like on Wikipedia and other sources is like, mediocre translations from japanese, because so much of the articles like the stuff I was reading, I would be like, I don't really know what this means. It's translated in a way that feels strange, and I wonder if that's just poor translation or maybe it needs larger content. I don't know. I would have to go back and find a specific example of what I was talking about.
• 27:53
  Speaker B: But yeah, this segment I had to cobble together because the book does not have a Wikipedia page at all.
• 28:00
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:01
  Speaker B: Although the first novel was published in 91 and the second one in 2002, the perfect blue novels weren't available as english translations until 2018. So we could not have done this at all when we first started doing this podcast. And aside from the 1997 film that we'll be covering, the novel was also adapted as a japanese live action film in 2002.
• 28:24
  Speaker A: That is it for your book, facts. It's now time to learn a little bit more about perfect blue.
• 28:29
  Speaker C: The film innocence is lost, dreams become nightmares, and privacy no longer exists, where everything you do can be seen by everyone. And those you trust are really those you should fear. Your life no longer belongs to you.
• 28:54
  Speaker B: Excuse me.
• 28:55
  Speaker C: Manga Entertainment presents Satoshi Khan's animated psychological thriller Perfect Blue.
• 29:05
  Speaker B: Excuse me. Who are you? Excuse me. Who are you?
• 29:10
  Speaker A: Perfect Blue is a 1997 film directed by the aforementioned Satoshi Kon, known for millennium actress, Tokyo God, fathers, Paprika, and actually three episodes of JoJo's bizarre Adventure, the early ver. I don't know. I don't know anything about anime. People know this about me. But JoJo's a bizarre adventure I have heard of. But this is one from. I believe JoJo's bizarre adventure is still ongoing. Like, a lot of anime, it's kind of like Power Rangers and stuff.
• 29:37
  Speaker B: Goes forever.
• 29:38
  Speaker A: Goes forever or, like, dies for a bit and then comes back under, like, pokemon. Yeah, like pokemon or whatever. And so I think that's the situation here because the Jojo's bizarre adventure that he worked on was in the early nineties. And like I said, I know it's going on now, but I think the version now might be slightly different in the same way that, like, dragon Ball, there's, like, X and there's like a million different dragon balls and that sort of thing. I think this might be a similar thing with Jozo's adventure. I do not know. But he did. He was a director on three episodes of that. The film was written by Sadiyuki Mure, who wrote Millennium actress, steamboy, ultraman, Nexus, three episodes of Cowboy Bebop and tons of other anime. But yeah, the three episodes of Cowboy Bops. Like, that's a thing. That's an anime I've seen.
• 30:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, we liked cowboy bebop.
• 30:26
  Speaker A: Cowboy Bebop is great. It's the anime for people that don't. Don't watch anime. Yeah, but no, it was very good. And yeah, it's supposedly. Yeah, he wrote the three episodes he wrote, I will say, were not three of my favorite episodes in the series. But they're fine. They're perfectly fine. Every episode is good to some extent. The english version of the film is translated by Rika Takahashi and was adapted by Leah Sargent, who's actually primarily a voice artist. I don't actually know what adapted in this context means compared to translated. Maybe adapted, sure. Maybe translated as, like, literally the dialogue and adapted as, like, conceptually, certain things were, like, that would make sense, americanized or whatever.
• 31:06
  Speaker B: Maybe that makes sense to my brain.
• 31:08
  Speaker A: And it makes sense too, because Rika Takahashi, I assume, is japanese, and Lea Sargent is american. I think I say american. They're english speaking. I don't know for sure that they're american, but Leah Sargent is primarily a voice artist and actually plays Eri Ochi. Ok. In this movie, they have one of the minor roles in this film. The english version of this film stars Bridget Hoffman, Ruby Marlowe. Ruby Marlowe is actually her stage name or her performance, whatever. Her voice, acting. Yeah, but Bridget Hoffman is the. And she's a very prolific voice actor. Also stars Wendy Lee, who is Bulma in Dragon Ball, Faye Valentine in Cowboy Bebop, several characters in Bleach, Queen serenity in some versions of Sailor Moon. I don't know if it's all of them, but I saw several, several different versions of Sailor Moon over, over the years. She was queen Serenity in Ki, in Akira, senior witch in Kiki's delivery service, but not the version we watched. So I believe senior witch would be the one she runs into, like, snobby, probably. And so. But in the version we talked about, the first english dub, she was that witch.
• 32:18
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 32:19
  Speaker A: I believe it was not the version we watched, I'm pretty sure. Cause it said, like, streamlined version, which I believe was the original version.
• 32:28
  Speaker B: First english dub.
• 32:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, before Disney got it. And she was Alex Strazza in World of Warcraft, which I thought was wild. Also stars Bob Marks, Kirk Norton, who's also in a million anime, and among other people whose roles aren't listed on Wikipedia. So underneath, it's so funny, they have, like. Cause on IMDb, they just have the japanese people. And, like, the IMDb cast list is useless on anime because they kind of just. Well, it's useless because the names aren't organized in any way that makes sense. I don't know how IMDb even does its cast list. I think it's by billing, but I'm not 100% sure. But on, on IMDb, when you click on the movie, it's all the japanese at voice actors first. And then, like, the. The english ones are just kind of randomly throughout. Like, the list on Wikipedia, they have a nice little table that's like, japanese version. Here are all the voice actors.
• 33:18
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 33:19
  Speaker A: English version here are all the voice actors. But for this, which is how I used for Kiki's delivery service, because the Kiki's delivery service actually had three columns, it was japanese version, actually four columns, I think. Japanese version, original english dub, 2001 or whatever, Disney Dub, and then 2010 Disney dub. Because I think at least one voice actor changed in the 2010 version, I think. But point being, on this movie, the english dub column had three actors listed and then a bunch of just nothing for the other characters. And then underneath it, it had a paragraph that said all of these people were also in the american dub, but we don't know what roles they did. So I don't know. Very strange. I'm sure that information is out there, but I didn't dig quite as deep as I guess I could have. The film has an 84% on Rotten Tomatoes, a 67 on Metacritic, and an eight out of ten on IMDb. So Wikipedia only has the us, UK and italian box office listed, which totals up to around $1.3 million against a reported budget of around $830,000. The japanese box office wasn't on there. I assume it made fairly good money, I mean, surely.
• 34:31
  Speaker B: I would think, yeah.
• 34:33
  Speaker A: So as you mentioned, this was Satoshi Kon's directorial debut after a producer at Madhouse, which is a big production company over there, approached him with an offer to direct specifically because they appreciated his work on JoJo's bizarre Adventure. So author Toguchi actually originally wanted a live action version of the film based on his novel, but due to problems finding funding, they eventually landed on a direct to video animated film before ultimately bumping that back up to a full theatrical release. Animated film sounds like at the last minute from, again, I think, poorly translated japanese articles dumped into Wikipedia. I think because when I go to the sources, because I often go to the sources and try to read the original sources, but they were all in Japanese.
• 35:20
  Speaker B: So I was like, okay, well, responsible Wikipedia usage.
• 35:24
  Speaker A: Yes. The thing that I thought was really interesting, it sounds like according to Wikipedia, again, a lot of people involved in the film did not expect this to kind of go global the way it did, or just to be as well recepted as it was in general. But it got picked up in film festival circuits around the world and then got released in the US, in the UK, and Canada. Like a canadian production company bought the rights to it after aired or premiered at a film festival in Canada, and then it got really good reception at all these film festivals and stuff. And apparently this was all kind of a surprise to the film. They weren't expecting that kind of global international appeal for the film. So speaking of Satoshi Kom, he was not sure that this was a film that he wanted to make originally. Because he wasn't a big horror fan. Nor did he like idols as what Wikipedia says, idols being the similar to like pop stars. Pop stars of Japan. Yeah, they were called idols, I think, still art or whatever to some extent. But Cohn decided he could put a twist on it by focusing the film on, quote, how the inner world of the protagonist, the victim, is broken by being targeted by the stalker, end quote. He also agreed to do it because Takuchi, the author, was amenable to Kon, basically making any changes he wanted under. But there were three, three rules he had to follow. One, he had to keep it about a b grade idol, whatever that means. I assume that's like a b list, like a second tier, like celeb or whatever. Two, that idol had to have a stalker. And three, it had to be a horror film. But other than that could basically change whatever he wanted. There was a rumor in the late nineties that Darren Aronofsky purchased the rights to remake perfect blue. But then supposedly in a magazine in 2001, in an interview or something, he stated that he had didn't buy the rights to the film for whatever reason. However, he would go on to acknowledge that several shots in Requiem for a dream were in fact an homage to perfect blue. Specifically, the shots are shots of a character in a bathtub, very famous shots in Requiem for a dream that are directly referencing this movie. There may be some other ones, but those are the famous ones. And more interestingly, supposedly, and I bring this up because Kyle from good bad or bad bad actually turned me onto this. And then I've read more about it on Wikipedia, Kyle, when he saw perfect blue sitting on our end table, was like, oh, you're doing perfect blue. Which movie are you doing? And I was like, I think it was only one movie. And he goes, well, that or Black Swan. And I was like, what are. And he goes, oh, he's like, supposedly black Swan is like a. He's seen it, so I assume he knows. But he said Black Swan is like very similar. And people have like accused Darren Aronofsky of basically ripping off parts of perfect blue for Black Swan. But he didn't mention, which I thought was interesting, that apparently there were rumors that Aronofsky wanted to buy the rights to make a remake of it.
• 38:25
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 38:26
  Speaker A: So that lends maybe more credence to the fact that maybe he took the script he was working on for that remake.
• 38:31
  Speaker B: And I'm very into things around because we watched Black Swan not that long.
• 38:37
  Speaker A: Ago as a bonus episode.
• 38:38
  Speaker B: Yeah, that was last that was last October. Yeah.
• 38:42
  Speaker A: Yeah. I will say, I'm very interested to see how similar they are because I will say I went on IMDb when I was going through the trivia facts, which I'm about to get in here too, to in just a second. And they had on the trivia facts on IMDb a list of the purported similarities. And a lot of them were really kind of surface level like details and not like the bones of the story necessary. I don't know. It was the things that the INDV trivia said were similar were more things of like, aesthetic choices, kind of where it's like, sure. Like to wherever. I guess the way I'll say it is that the IMDb read list to me read more like a list of things that I would just be like, yeah, well, the filmmaker took inspiration from this, but it isn't like a direct lift necessarily, which is obviously different things because everything's an homage to everything and, like, everything's a remix. So I'm very interested to see, again, having not watched Black Swan all that long ago, how similar it feels to us because I'm kind of intrigued to see, like, if it's more like, oh, okay, that shots kind of similar to one shot in perfect Blue, Black Swan. Or like, oh, this entire thematic through line is completely lifted. You know what I mean? And I will say thematic plot wise, there are some similarities.
• 40:03
  Speaker B: I mean, it sounds similar based on what I've learned about the movie.
• 40:07
  Speaker A: There are sounding some similarities, but I don't know. We'll get back into that again in the main episode. But I just wanted to bring it up here so people watching can kind of think about that as they're watching and compare it to Black Swan. Another thing I thought was funny when I saw, because I also saw the title for the sequel. So this book is called perfect complete metamorphosis.
• 40:29
  Speaker B: Metamorphosis.
• 40:30
  Speaker A: And the sequel is called Perfect Awaken from a dream. Yeah, requiem for a dream. It's just very clear that Darren Aronofsky is a big weeb or whatever and, like, I think takes a lot of ideas because Tarantino does the same thing. There's some, and there's a whole different discussion there about maybe, like, american directors and auteurs just feeling like they can just kind of.
• 40:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, entitled to.
• 40:57
  Speaker A: Entitled to kind of take stuff from, you know, eastern culture, like eastern media without really, like, because they know, like, most of the audience over here will have never seen it.
• 41:06
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 41:07
  Speaker A: And they can kind of get away with kind of copying things. That being said, I think there's an interesting discussion that had, I'll caveat it slightly by saying american directors steal from other american directors all the time. It's all direction is building on the shoulders of John. You know, like it's every shot you've seen in a movie was probably ripped off. Not every shot, but a lot of shots you've seen in movies were ripped off from other shots in other older movies. Yeah, like the entirety of the trench run in Star wars. It's basically like ripped from some World War Two movie or something like that. Anyway. And I think that's an american, that might be a japanese movie too. I don't know. Point being, film is a very derivative art form and directors and writers and stuff steal from each other all the time. And it's just a matter of doing it in a way that's generally respectful and generally accepted by the people you work with as being chill and not like overtly just stealing. So getting into some IMDb trivia facts at some point in the film, one of the characters, I think the main character maybe is named Mima. She is taught how to use the Internet in the film, and the browser they use in the film is Netscape Navigator. So delightfully nineties, which was the most popular Internet browser at the time of the film's production back in the late nineties, obviously has declined in popularity over the years and ended in 2008. But yeah, I was a Netscape navigator.
• 42:42
  Speaker B: Using rip gone but not forgotten.
• 42:45
  Speaker A: Madonna apparently used extensive clips from this film as a backdrop during a dance interlude on her drowned world tour in 2001. So basically right after the film came out, she was a fan. The film is in the official top 250 narrative feature films on Letterboxd, which I thought was interesting. It's the first time Letterboxd has shown up in one of these things. Getting into some reviews and I don't know if these are contemporary or modern. It did not say. I assume these are mostly modern reviews, if I had to guess. Dennis Harvey, writing for Variety, said that while the film, quote, ultimately disappoints with its just middling tension and underdeveloped scenario, it still holds holds attention by trying something different for the genre. End quote. Hawaii tranboy of slash film called Perfect Blue. Deeply violent, both physically and emotionally, this film is. This is a film that will leave you with profound psychological scars and the feeling that you want to take a long, long shower. End quote. Bob Graham for the San Francisco Chronicle noted the film's ability to, quote, take the thriller, media fascination, psychological insight and pop culture and stand them all in their heads via its knowing, adult view of what seems to be a young teenage paradise. End quote. For the Anime News Network, Team Henderson described the film as, quote, a dark, sophisticated psychological thriller with its effect of over obsession funneled through early Internet culture that produces, quote, a reminder of how much celebrity fandom has evolved in over in only a decade. Or reviewing the 2019 Blu ray release of the film, Neil Lombard heralded Perfect Blue as, quote, one of the greatest anime films of all time, a must see masterpiece that helped to pave the way for more complex anime films to follow. And then Chris Beveridge, writing for the fandom Post, noted, quote, this is not a film one can watch often overall, nor should you. But when you settle into it, you put everything else away, turn down the lights and savor an excellent piece of filmmaking. And then getting back to some top film lists that it has made its way onto time, put it on its top five anime film list of all time.
• 44:58
  Speaker B: Wow. Top five, huh?
• 45:00
  Speaker A: In the top five, apparently. I bet I could guess four, maybe of the grave of the fireflies this Akira spirited away, and then maybe another Miyazaki or something else. I don't know if we're doing anime. That would be my guess. I don't know. Total film ranked it their 20. Ranked at number 25 on their list of greatest animated films. And that's animated films. The timeless was anime, so I think specifically japanese animation and slash film named it the scariest animated film ever. It also made the Entertainment Weekly's best movies never seen from 1991 to 2011 and in 2012. Or movies from 1991 to 2011. And in 2022, Indiewire named it their 12th best movie of the night, 1990s.
• 45:45
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 45:45
  Speaker A: Yep. Did you find that list? I thought you were looking.
• 45:49
  Speaker B: No, I was gonna attempt to right click on it, but it wouldn't let me.
• 45:52
  Speaker A: Top five anime movies on DVD. Oh, it's a web archive because this is from 2005. I don't know if we're gonna be able to actually. If I'm gonna be able to actually see. It's trying to load and it's, it's trying. I don't know if it's gonna load if I can find it.
• 46:09
  Speaker C: Oh.
• 46:09
  Speaker A: Oh, it's the wayback machine. I see the time header. It's loading so slowly.
• 46:15
  Speaker B: The Wayvac machine said you get the experience of the nineties as well.
• 46:20
  Speaker A: Here we go. Perfect. Blue spirited away. Akira. And I was wrong on the other two. Grave of the Fireflies does not make it in. The other two are barefoot Jin, Mori, Masaki from 1983, and Steamboy, Katsuru Otomo from 2004, which I believe is the steamboy, was one of the ones I listed. The writer, I believe.
• 46:43
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. Surprised that grave of the fireflies wouldn't be on there.
• 46:48
  Speaker A: That is kind of fascinating, but yeah. Akira, spirited away and perfect blue are all on there. Suck.
• 46:53
  Speaker B: Grave of the fireflies isn't, like, newer than I think it is, isn't it?
• 46:57
  Speaker A: Oh, maybe it. Oh, maybe it is. Actually.
• 46:59
  Speaker B: No, it's a 1988 film.
• 47:00
  Speaker A: Yeah. That's surprising, because that almost always makes best animated films of all. Forget anime. That makes, like, best animated films of all time list usually. So it's kind of surprising. Maybe it wasn't on dvd, because this was a true.
• 47:13
  Speaker B: Yeah, maybe it was not on dvd.
• 47:15
  Speaker A: That's my only guess. I don't know. But that's it for this. As always, you can. I already said the Facebook and social media stuff earlier. If you want to support us, head over to patreon.com. thisfilmislit. If you support us at the highest level, the $15 a month level, you get access to priority recommendations. And this one was, in fact, a priority recommendation from.
• 47:34
  Speaker B: This was a request from Harpo Rat.
• 47:37
  Speaker A: There you go. So thank you, Harpo rat, for sending this request in. Very excited to compare it. Katie, where can people watch perfect blue?
• 47:47
  Speaker B: Well, you can check with your local library or a local video rental store, if you still have one. You can stream this with a subscription to AMC or shutter or.
• 47:59
  Speaker A: Oh, it's on shutter.
• 48:00
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's on shutter. Or you can rent it for around four or $5 from Apple TV, Amazon, YouTube, or Fandango at home.
• 48:09
  Speaker A: There you go. Like I said, I'm very interested now to watch. I was interested already because I'd heard it's very good. I've heard it's a renowned anime film, but there's the little sub thing of comparing it to Black Swan is interesting because I really like Black Swan. I think it's a very good movie, and I'll be interested to see how much of it Darren Arnofsky stole from this movie. It'll be fascinating to see, but I'm also really interested to see if it's as, quote unquote scary as, like, so many reviews were like, this is like.
• 48:36
  Speaker B: A. Yeah, I felt like I knew.
• 48:39
  Speaker A: It was like a thriller and, like, psychologically daunting, but the way those reviews made it sound was like, this movie is like watching, like, Schindler's list or.
• 48:47
  Speaker B: Something where you're like, watch it once and then never again. Kinda of a movie.
• 48:52
  Speaker A: Yeah. Like Grave of the Fireflies or requiem for a dream or one of those where it's just like, I'm good. You know, you watch it once and you're like. Cause I wouldn't say that about Black Swan. Black Swan. While. While disturbing in ways and like, it's not a movie you're gonna watch a lot. It's not like, oh, God, I never want to watch Black Swan again. You know what I mean? You're like. It's kind of an interesting, like, thing. It's. And it is upsetting in ways, but not like. Not like something like Requiem for a dream is. Or I. I imagine grave of the Fireflies based on what I know about it and that sort of thing. But anyways, very excited to watch it and we'll be talking about it in one week's time. Until that time, guys, gals, nonbinary pals, and everybody else keep reading books, watching movies, and keep being awesome.