Latest / Ridiculous History / The Dark Side of Frank Lloyd Wright, Part One: Professional Success and Personal Turmoil

Transcript

The Dark Side of Frank Lloyd Wright, Part One: Professional Success and Personal Turmoil · Ridiculous History

0:00
Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
0:27
Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
0:30
Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it from the band
0:33
Speaker 1: The Myth Legend, our super producer, Max Guggenheim, williams.
0:38
Speaker 2: Oh Man, I love I love the Goog. Dude, what
0:42
Speaker 2: a cool building? Is that a Frank Lloyd Wright?
0:44
Speaker 1: It is? It is the Gougenheim Museum is one of
0:49
Speaker 1: Frank's masterpieces that has been designated as a UNESCO World
0:53
Speaker 1: Heritage Site. You're Noe Brown, I am Ben Bolan. Yeah,
0:59
Speaker 1: and we are. We are diving into the story of
1:03
Speaker 1: a guy named Frank Lloyd Wright. Even if you're not
1:07
Speaker 1: an architecture buff or an architect yourself, guys, I would
1:11
Speaker 1: say it's it's safe to assume most people have heard
1:14
Speaker 1: this name.
1:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's kind of you know, it's like if you
1:16
Speaker 2: know two opera singers. You know, it's the same with
1:20
Speaker 2: with with architects. There's maybe, like I am pay perhaps
1:24
Speaker 2: Frank Lloyd Wright it's probably up there as well. But
1:27
Speaker 2: back to the Goog. I just want to say really quickly,
1:30
Speaker 2: I love how revered that site is and that it's
1:34
Speaker 2: on the UNESCO World Heritage List, but it's also like
1:38
Speaker 2: the weirdest of the mainstream museums in New York City. Like,
1:42
Speaker 2: you can guarantee if you go in there, you're gonna
1:45
Speaker 2: see some some real odd stuff bordering on pretentious but
1:50
Speaker 2: oftentimes just straddling the line enough to be awesome.
1:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretentious and genius. There's a heck of a then
1:58
Speaker 1: diagram there, and rank Lloyd Wright was definitely dancing in
2:03
Speaker 1: the center of that map. Over a career spanning something
2:06
Speaker 1: like seventy years, this guy literally designed some of the
2:10
Speaker 1: most influential structures on the planet. And he made more
2:14
Speaker 1: than a thousand different designs. And even though we're not architects,
2:20
Speaker 1: that that sounds like a lot of buildings, right.
2:22
Speaker 2: I thought you were for a second, say, And he
2:24
Speaker 2: made more than a thousand dollars he did make out
2:28
Speaker 2: the course of his career. Yeah, inflation calculator anyone, No, No,
2:32
Speaker 2: A thousand designs or were these all executed?
2:38
Speaker 1: That's a good question. We know that there was a
2:40
Speaker 1: lot of stuff that would have been left on the
2:42
Speaker 1: drawing board, and there were a lot of things that
2:45
Speaker 1: maybe his disciples made under his influence. So the question becomes,
2:50
Speaker 1: do we count those as part of his uvuh?
2:54
Speaker 2: But can we just also acknowledge that back to the
2:56
Speaker 2: drawing board never really occurred to me to think of it.
2:59
Speaker 1: Literally.
3:00
Speaker 2: It's one of those things that just gets thrown around
3:01
Speaker 2: so much, kind of an architecture expression.
3:04
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I think you're right about that. Yeah,
3:07
Speaker 1: and it still it just sounds better than back to
3:10
Speaker 1: the drafting table, back to the future, right right. Look,
3:15
Speaker 1: this guy, Frank a very controversial, divisive figure. He's inarguably
3:20
Speaker 1: a genius, and don't worry, he would tell you that himself.
3:24
Speaker 1: But one thing that we learned in the course of
3:29
Speaker 1: researching this two part series is that there was a
3:32
Speaker 1: heck of a dark side to his fame. He had
3:34
Speaker 1: a life of personal scandal, professional controversy, and folks, even
3:40
Speaker 1: a mass murder.
3:42
Speaker 2: Ooh okay, all right. Oh and also a lot of
3:44
Speaker 2: people might be on the side of history that casts
3:49
Speaker 2: this fella as a bit of a cult leader.
3:52
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, let's get into it. We're gonna
4:02
Speaker 1: meet Frank. Folks. He is born in Richland Center, Wisconsin.
4:06
Speaker 1: It's June eighth, eighteen sixty seven, and he's got a
4:11
Speaker 1: really interesting background. His father is a musician and a
4:15
Speaker 1: Christian preacher and travels a lot, and his mother, Anna
4:18
Speaker 1: Lloyd Jones, is a teacher who's super into her Welsh heritage.
4:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, and because of his father's career in the ministry,
4:28
Speaker 2: the family traveled alongside him. Sounds like kind of tent
4:32
Speaker 2: revival kind of stuff. We're talking the eighteen hundreds. I mean,
4:35
Speaker 2: that seems like that's the kind of an itinerant preacher perhaps,
4:39
Speaker 2: isn't that the word?
4:40
Speaker 1: Yeah? Definitely, definitely a nomadic lifestyle, right, because what we said.
4:45
Speaker 1: Frank is born in eighteen sixty seven, and from there
4:49
Speaker 1: to for the next several years, his family moves through
4:54
Speaker 1: Rhode Island in Iowa, the Massachusetts and it's not until
4:58
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy eight that they finally settled down permanently in Madison, Wisconsin.
5:05
Speaker 2: Madison, Wisconsin, I think that's kind of the ultimate metro
5:09
Speaker 2: area of Wisconsin. And it ain't that metro. Madison's were
5:13
Speaker 2: a University of Wisconsin is too, the college is college metro.
5:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got a buddy moved up there recently.
5:18
Speaker 2: I guess I can't readily come up with another city
5:22
Speaker 2: in Wisconsin off the top. Walking at Dome. Oh, Milwaukee's sorry,
5:26
Speaker 2: thank you Milwaukee is definitely the most metro and uh
5:29
Speaker 2: and is giving Wayne's World, Alice Cooper concert Vibes and
5:33
Speaker 2: Richland Center, Wisconsin, of course, which we totally knew about
5:37
Speaker 2: before researching this episode. No, no, no, no, not I
5:40
Speaker 2: but I know you were being facetious. But you know,
5:43
Speaker 2: as you can imagine, the life of a traveling preacher
5:46
Speaker 2: was neither a particularly a money making good situation or
5:51
Speaker 2: particularly glamorous.
5:53
Speaker 1: As a result, the Right family often lived lean. Things
5:57
Speaker 1: did not get better when his parents the war. And
6:00
Speaker 1: we have to remember, like you said, Noel, this is
6:02
Speaker 1: still the eighteen hundred, So getting divorced in general is
6:06
Speaker 1: pretty contentious, right, pretty controversial. They get divorced. It's eighteen
6:11
Speaker 1: eighty five and Frank is eighteen years old. He has
6:17
Speaker 1: a situation that a lot of people find themselves in
6:19
Speaker 1: even today, where he has to do his best to
6:23
Speaker 1: financially support his family. Right, So he takes a job
6:28
Speaker 1: at the University of Wisconsin, which Max just mentioned, and
6:32
Speaker 1: while he's there, he works for the dean of the
6:35
Speaker 1: Department of Engineering. At the same time he's studying at
6:39
Speaker 1: the university. But according to his later biographers, he was
6:43
Speaker 1: one of those kids who always knew what he wanted
6:47
Speaker 1: to do, Like he always wanted to be an architect.
6:50
Speaker 1: Indeed he did, and what he wanted to be was
6:53
Speaker 1: an architect. So in eighteen eighty seven, he pulled up
6:57
Speaker 1: his proverbial tent stakes and headed out to Chicago, out east,
7:03
Speaker 1: out midwest. I don't know what you'd call that, already
7:06
Speaker 1: a well known spots, sort of a hot spot, a
7:08
Speaker 1: bit of a mecca of the architectural scene. And while
7:11
Speaker 1: he's there, he works for a couple of different firms.
7:14
Speaker 1: Eventually he lands a job with an outfit called Adler
7:18
Speaker 1: and Sullivan. This is a huge win for him. For
7:22
Speaker 1: six years he is working directly under the legendary Louis
7:27
Speaker 1: Sullivan himself. So it's kind of like it's kind of
7:32
Speaker 1: like getting a job at Apple and working directly for
7:35
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs or Steven Apple. Yeah right, Tim Apple. Sorry, Yeah,
7:43
Speaker 1: he's also he's also he's still a young guy as
7:47
Speaker 1: all this is happening. He is just twenty two years
7:50
Speaker 1: old when he ties the knot, and this is eighteen
7:54
Speaker 1: eighty nine. He marries someone named Catherine Lee Tobin, who
7:59
Speaker 1: is conventionally known to her friends as Kitty, and so
8:03
Speaker 1: you'll see her described as Kitty. Right, this is his
8:06
Speaker 1: first wife, and he's right now, he's got a vast
8:11
Speaker 1: horizon of possibility before him, and he says, you know, Kitty,
8:16
Speaker 1: I love you. I love that we're getting married. I
8:20
Speaker 1: can't wait for us to live together. But I also
8:22
Speaker 1: love architecture. I want to build the house that we
8:26
Speaker 1: live in. We just don't have. All we need is money.
8:30
Speaker 1: We just need a lot of money.
8:31
Speaker 2: And Ben, this is reminding me of I actually just
8:34
Speaker 2: over the week and watched I can't remember the name
8:37
Speaker 2: of the series or what platform it's on, so it's
8:39
Speaker 2: not mega helpful. But this dude, who was clearly frank
8:42
Speaker 2: Lloyd Wright inspired, this guy Robert O'shatz, designed himself this
8:47
Speaker 2: incredible like upside down kind of funnel shaped like tree
8:52
Speaker 2: home off the side of a cliff there in Oregon,
8:55
Speaker 2: kind of more of a rural area, and it was
8:58
Speaker 2: very frankly right inspired, and you know, really kind of
9:01
Speaker 2: got me even before I knew we were doing this episode,
9:04
Speaker 2: thinking about how interesting and specific the art of architecture
9:08
Speaker 2: is and how it's like such a neat synthesis of
9:11
Speaker 2: aesthetics and function.
9:14
Speaker 1: That's so cool. Yeah. One of my favorite quotations about
9:18
Speaker 1: architecture is the following. I can't remember who said it,
9:21
Speaker 1: but they essentially said architecture is frozen music. And that's
9:25
Speaker 1: such a beautiful way to think of it, and I
9:28
Speaker 1: think Frank would agree. He may have even been the
9:31
Speaker 1: guy who made that quote. So apologies if you're listening
9:35
Speaker 1: Frank somehow out there in the ether. We do have
9:38
Speaker 1: good news for young Kitty and young Frank at this point,
9:43
Speaker 1: because Frank's mentor, Louis Sullivan, is such a big deal
9:48
Speaker 1: and so well healed. He goes to Frank and he says, hey, kid,
9:52
Speaker 1: I'll help you out with a loan, and I'm happy
9:56
Speaker 1: to give you the money pay me back when you can.
9:58
Speaker 1: The only coveat here will be that you have to
10:01
Speaker 1: agree to work under me directly for five years, which
10:06
Speaker 1: is really cool because again, in our earlier comparison, that's
10:09
Speaker 1: like going that's like working into Apple going to Steve
10:12
Speaker 1: Jobs and saying, hey, will you help me? Will you
10:18
Speaker 1: basically buy me a house? And then Steve goes, oh, yeah, sure, man,
10:22
Speaker 1: you just have to work at this wonderful job for five.
10:25
Speaker 2: Years, right, And you know, we talked about this, I
10:27
Speaker 2: think recently on stuff that it wants you to know
10:29
Speaker 2: just about how you know, with the advent of automation
10:32
Speaker 2: or the I guess further it exponential spread of automation
10:36
Speaker 2: and AI, things like apprenticeship programs and sort of more
10:42
Speaker 2: journeyman kind of craftsmen, things are not what they used
10:46
Speaker 2: to be. This is exactly the example of this at
10:50
Speaker 2: its best, right and at its highest level.
10:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is a good one, right, and I
10:56
Speaker 1: love that comparison. For a while, Kitty and Frank are
11:00
Speaker 1: seeing their dreams come true, but they also soon find
11:04
Speaker 1: themselves with a total of like six kids. They eventually
11:08
Speaker 1: have six kids together. And so again, just like in
11:11
Speaker 1: his childhood, Frank is facing serious financial concerns and this
11:16
Speaker 1: drives him to moonlight. He starts accepting independent commissions to
11:22
Speaker 1: design houses outside of his contract agreement with his mentor.
11:27
Speaker 1: And if we want to contextualize that in the modern day,
11:31
Speaker 1: Nolan Max, I think we've all done a little bit
11:34
Speaker 1: of like call it consulting or maybe writing or editing
11:39
Speaker 1: or making music or producing for shows that friends do.
11:43
Speaker 2: Right, Like, we've all done that and I also think
11:47
Speaker 2: I'm certain in fact, that all three of us worked
11:49
Speaker 2: on a mentorship program we had here at iHeart, you know,
11:52
Speaker 2: for up and coming podcasters, helping folks on the development
11:55
Speaker 2: side and you know, production side with Max and all
11:59
Speaker 2: of that kind of stuff. And it's really nice. It's
12:01
Speaker 2: a nice thing to be able to do, and it's
12:02
Speaker 2: easy to take for granted, like just through experience alone,
12:06
Speaker 2: how much shareable wisdom one can kind of amass, you know,
12:10
Speaker 2: And you don't really notice sometimes until you're talking to
12:13
Speaker 2: someone who hasn't been in it like you have, and
12:14
Speaker 2: then you realize, wait a minute, I gotta know a
12:17
Speaker 2: thing or two about this architecture game. And of course
12:20
Speaker 2: you know the architecture of podcasting.
12:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that. That's so accurate. And folks, we
12:26
Speaker 1: are the opposite of arrogant people. So the way I
12:33
Speaker 1: always like to put it in those situations is not
12:37
Speaker 1: in such a new medium, nobody is really the We
12:41
Speaker 1: don't have a Frank Lloyd rite of podcasting yet, but
12:44
Speaker 1: we have guys like us who have had the opportunity
12:48
Speaker 1: to make most of the imaginable mistakes. So we like
12:52
Speaker 1: to help people avoid, you know, like learn from our mistakes,
12:56
Speaker 1: we like to help you avoid them. And also I
12:58
Speaker 1: want to give on that point, I want to give
13:00
Speaker 1: Max a special shout out here. Max, your work with
13:04
Speaker 1: Next Up has just been phenomenal.
13:06
Speaker 2: So think that was the name of the program. Yeah,
13:09
Speaker 2: Max did way more of these than we did, but
13:12
Speaker 2: I know Ben and I did a few, and it's
13:15
Speaker 2: super fun and super rewarding and a great thing to
13:17
Speaker 2: be able to do. And Frank was benefiting from this obviously,
13:22
Speaker 2: this mentor saw in him not only promise but potentially
13:26
Speaker 2: like maybe not a cash cow, but he I think
13:30
Speaker 2: he did see ways that he could benefit from this relationship,
13:33
Speaker 2: knowing that Frank was a wonder kin I guess as
13:36
Speaker 2: they called him.
13:37
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, that's the perfect phrase for it. Unfortunately,
13:41
Speaker 1: this situation, this padawan situation, didn't end well because yeah,
13:49
Speaker 1: Frank likely saw these this moonlighting, these extra contracts as
13:53
Speaker 1: just a little bit more cheddar from a side hustle.
13:56
Speaker 1: What's wrong with that? Well, Louis Sullivan found out and
13:59
Speaker 1: he was livid, like he was pissed, and he was I'm.
14:03
Speaker 2: Saying right, he was trying to lock that down. You know,
14:05
Speaker 2: He's like, you are my guy, you know, Yeah, so
14:09
Speaker 2: he was really happy.
14:11
Speaker 1: Was not happy. He felt this was a breach not
14:14
Speaker 1: just of their contract, but of their actual friendship. We
14:17
Speaker 1: still don't know whether Frank resigned or whether he was fired,
14:21
Speaker 1: but this disagreement, this perceived betrayal, caused a beef that
14:26
Speaker 1: would last almost twenty years.
14:29
Speaker 2: Man, he gotta squash the beef, guys, not worth it,
14:32
Speaker 2: not worth it. Luckily, Frank saw an opportunity in all
14:35
Speaker 2: of this nastiness. In eighteen ninety three, he what do
14:38
Speaker 2: they call it, Ben, hung up his own shingle. Yeah, yeah, yes,
14:42
Speaker 2: opened his own office and started designing homes that he
14:47
Speaker 2: felt had a connection to the regional sort of spirit
14:52
Speaker 2: of the American prairie. So he was already from the
14:56
Speaker 2: start really thinking not form over function, but like he
15:01
Speaker 2: was a very form formal guy, you know, he was
15:03
Speaker 2: trying to like connect structures with the spirit of the
15:06
Speaker 2: place in which they were, you know, located.
15:09
Speaker 1: That's a great way to say it. Yeah, it's very
15:11
Speaker 1: much a matter of esthetic and philosophy more so than
15:17
Speaker 1: like it's it's asking the question not just how does
15:21
Speaker 1: a person exist in this building, but how does this
15:24
Speaker 1: building exist on the land?
15:26
Speaker 2: You know, And this is no ding to more you know,
15:28
Speaker 2: straightforward types of builders or contractors or whatever. But that's
15:33
Speaker 2: not quite You have to have an architect in the
15:35
Speaker 2: situation is to like, you know, have the plans approved
15:37
Speaker 2: for code and all of that. But I think when
15:39
Speaker 2: we think architect now, in our mind's eye, we picture
15:43
Speaker 2: something a little more flashy and you know, personal, like
15:47
Speaker 2: the work of Frankloyd.
15:49
Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, yeah, man, like the I love that point
15:54
Speaker 1: because one of my neighbors is a is an architect,
15:59
Speaker 1: and his specialization is entirely windows. Like he lives, breathes,
16:04
Speaker 1: and eats and sleeps windows, and I love talking to
16:08
Speaker 1: the guy. I think we all see a little bit
16:11
Speaker 1: of magic, a little bit of wizardry in the craft
16:14
Speaker 1: of architecture in that discipline, and a lot of that perception, honestly,
16:20
Speaker 1: in the modern day comes from people like Frank Lloyd. Right,
16:23
Speaker 1: He's not just building buildings, He's making statements about the
16:27
Speaker 1: world around us. Okay, maybe we're being too nice to
16:31
Speaker 1: the guy. You'll see why. I'm walking that back his
16:35
Speaker 1: new office, like you're saying, his new office, once it opens,
16:39
Speaker 1: it starts getting commissions. He's beaten the streets, you know,
16:43
Speaker 1: he's shaking the hands, kissing the babies, networking. This leads
16:47
Speaker 1: to a deal to design a house for a guy
16:51
Speaker 1: named W. H. Winslow. And as we've mentioned previously, we
16:55
Speaker 1: do have a bit of a stereotype often, folks. When Noel,
16:58
Speaker 1: Max and I here an historical name with two initials
17:03
Speaker 1: and then a surname, we assume the guy's rich.
17:07
Speaker 2: Great, Okay, Yeah, it's got a bit of a hoy
17:12
Speaker 2: toity quality to it.
17:13
Speaker 1: Yes, And this, luckily for Frank, this new house design,
17:19
Speaker 1: his very first job at the at the new office,
17:21
Speaker 1: is a hit. It makes serious waves, and it grabs
17:25
Speaker 1: the eye of another guy, another architect named Daniel Burnham.
17:31
Speaker 1: This is like another Steve Jobs. He is the He
17:34
Speaker 1: is acknowledged at the time as the most influential architect
17:38
Speaker 1: in all of.
17:39
Speaker 2: Chicago, which is architect city for Franks and purposes. Right,
17:43
Speaker 2: so this is the guy for a moner of comparison
17:46
Speaker 2: that you draw Ben as a hip hop head, it's
17:48
Speaker 2: like making your first hip hop album and all of
17:50
Speaker 2: a sudden, Doctor dre and Eminem you know, do a
17:53
Speaker 2: conference call at.
17:55
Speaker 1: You right right, that'd be intimidating. Also, yeah, we don't
18:00
Speaker 1: not everybody loves drade Em and m but you know,
18:02
Speaker 1: picture whomever you're thinking about in that meal you yeah, uh, okay.
18:07
Speaker 1: So what we're saying is Burnham feels he is discovered,
18:10
Speaker 1: like you said, no avunder Kidd, once in a generation talent.
18:14
Speaker 1: And this guy Burnham pitches a deal to Frank and
18:18
Speaker 1: it's another crazy cool idea from a mentor. He says, Look, man,
18:25
Speaker 1: I will subsidize your life for years. I will be
18:29
Speaker 1: your patron so long as you agree to go study
18:34
Speaker 1: in Europe and then come back with that knowledge and
18:37
Speaker 1: become the principal designer in my firm.
18:40
Speaker 2: Okay, so not it's got a different flavor than his
18:44
Speaker 2: previous opportunity where this guy still wants to lock him down,
18:48
Speaker 2: but boy is he sweetening the deal. And I think
18:51
Speaker 2: maybe now Frank has learned his lesson and knows that, Okay,
18:55
Speaker 2: maybe if I go through with this, I can get
18:57
Speaker 2: this crazy level of education and then all so be
19:00
Speaker 2: working for the best firm. It's going to allow me
19:02
Speaker 2: to do exactly what I want to do and I'm
19:04
Speaker 2: not going to have to seek these side jobs and
19:06
Speaker 2: maybe you know, hurt my new besties feelings.
19:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be a reasonable assumption. And I think
19:12
Speaker 1: that's safe to say. That's what you and I and
19:14
Speaker 1: probably Max would do. It's such a great offer. I'll
19:17
Speaker 1: pay for everything. Oh you go on vacation to Europe.
19:21
Speaker 1: I'll pay for that too, and then come be my
19:23
Speaker 1: best boy, my right hand man. Get this though, folks,
19:27
Speaker 1: Frank says, nah.
19:29
Speaker 2: What Yeah, he doesn't do it, Okay, So he knows
19:39
Speaker 2: what he's worth. He knows at this point. Maybe the
19:42
Speaker 2: lesson he actually learned from his previous mentorship was more like,
19:45
Speaker 2: I don't need anybody, man, I.
19:48
Speaker 1: Got maybe yeah, and maybe you know, not to read
19:51
Speaker 1: the tea leaves of personality too much here. But maybe
19:55
Speaker 1: he was responding with that in that way because training
20:00
Speaker 1: in Europe would mean he's studying established architecture ah and
20:06
Speaker 1: not doing his own thing.
20:07
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. He was already thinking several steps ahead to
20:11
Speaker 2: his own unique school of architecture of something that is
20:16
Speaker 2: entirely American that is now known as you can imagine
20:20
Speaker 2: with what we described earlier as the Prairie school, which
20:24
Speaker 2: is so funny, Ben, because when I think of the Prairie,
20:26
Speaker 2: I think of like little house on you know, like
20:31
Speaker 2: very non ostentatious kind of stuff. And I guess that
20:34
Speaker 2: is what makes his work interesting, because it is somehow
20:37
Speaker 2: simultaneously grand and austere at the same time. Yeah.
20:42
Speaker 1: And you can read some great in depth descriptions of
20:47
Speaker 1: the Prairie School, and I think there's room for grand
20:51
Speaker 1: and austere here because they have this. They eventually cultivate
20:56
Speaker 1: this radical approach for making modern homes with mass produced
21:00
Speaker 1: materials and equipment, and they have a lot of open
21:06
Speaker 1: spaces like the Dixie Chicks. You know the prayer, understand
21:10
Speaker 1: the reference, but I believe you the song wide Open
21:13
Speaker 1: Spaces by the Time is a song.
21:15
Speaker 2: I'm not familiar with the work of the Chicks.
21:17
Speaker 1: It's the only one I know. Oh that's right, they're
21:19
Speaker 1: just the Chicks. Now we're getting old, bro. But yes,
21:23
Speaker 1: this guy is turning down the status quo in the
21:29
Speaker 1: coxotic pursuit of a new way of building. And by
21:34
Speaker 1: nineteen hundred his bet on himself pays off. The style
21:37
Speaker 1: is established, it's immensely popular. Frank is only thirty three
21:41
Speaker 1: years old at this time. He is the main character
21:45
Speaker 1: of this new architectural revolution.
21:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he had the chops man in the
21:50
Speaker 2: space of just ten years from nineteen hundred and nineteen ten,
21:53
Speaker 2: he built around fifty of these prairie style homes. He
21:56
Speaker 2: also became a lecturer. Dajure in his particular field, did
22:01
Speaker 2: a little bit of a tinorant, traveling himself a lot
22:05
Speaker 2: like his father, only he was definitely getting paid, no
22:09
Speaker 2: question about it. His work was featured in exhibitions. His
22:14
Speaker 2: firm tackled more than just standalone houses, as you can imagine.
22:19
Speaker 2: Of course, that's where his legacy is headache. They built
22:22
Speaker 2: everything from apartment buildings to group dwellings to rec centers,
22:26
Speaker 2: businesses and churches.
22:29
Speaker 1: We should also mention what we're talking about, traveling widely.
22:33
Speaker 1: He is a globe trotter. In nineteen five he went
22:38
Speaker 1: to Japan, and honestly he became kind of a wiya boo.
22:43
Speaker 1: Check out that term if you don't know what it means, folks.
22:46
Speaker 1: But he had always cited Japanese wood block prints as
22:51
Speaker 1: one of his big aesthetic influences, and when he traveled
22:56
Speaker 1: to Japan for the first few times he called it
23:00
Speaker 1: he was not at all hesitant with his praise. He really,
23:03
Speaker 1: what do we call it today? He glazed Japan. He
23:06
Speaker 1: said this is the most romantic, artistic, nature inspired country
23:11
Speaker 1: on earth. It was hugely important to go, so he
23:14
Speaker 1: went there again in nineteen thirteen. He spent almost three
23:18
Speaker 1: years there from nineteen seventeen to nineteen twenty two, building
23:22
Speaker 1: something called the New Imperial Hotel in Tokyo. And the
23:26
Speaker 1: whole time, every time he traveled to Japan, even when
23:29
Speaker 1: he was back in the States, he was always aggressively
23:33
Speaker 1: collecting screens and textiles and pottery and sculptures from Japan,
23:38
Speaker 1: and then he would later incorporate these as kind of
23:43
Speaker 1: easter eggs in his architectural spaces because the Japanese style
23:48
Speaker 1: of architecture, I think really spoke to his own values
23:51
Speaker 1: and perspective.
23:52
Speaker 2: Well, it makes perfect sense. I mean, this is a
23:55
Speaker 2: culture steeped in esthetics mixed with function, you know, and
24:01
Speaker 2: remains so to this day. I mean, they've got they've
24:04
Speaker 2: certainly got a lot on us here in the States
24:06
Speaker 2: in terms of just their city planning, incorporating all of
24:10
Speaker 2: these gorgeous temples into city scapes and you know, more
24:15
Speaker 2: urban environments, not to mention just the practical nature of
24:20
Speaker 2: their rails, their their travel, and the way it's all
24:23
Speaker 2: kind of perfectly integrated into the big picture of what
24:27
Speaker 2: it's like to live in a city, of course, which
24:30
Speaker 2: I think is what he's talking about and probably most admiring.
24:33
Speaker 2: But of course in the villages as well, you have
24:36
Speaker 2: more carkening back to those kind of early days of
24:40
Speaker 2: Japanese you know, homes and structures like the sliding doors
24:44
Speaker 2: and the kind of matted floors and things like that,
24:47
Speaker 2: all very much designed it to be efficient, energy efficient,
24:51
Speaker 2: all of that stuff they had it on lock.
24:54
Speaker 1: Oh. Yeah, and this all sounds great, right.
24:56
Speaker 2: Folks can also point out to Ben it would have
24:58
Speaker 2: taken him almost a month to get from the East
25:01
Speaker 2: coast of the United States to Japan. In those days,
25:04
Speaker 2: he would have had to take a train from Chicago
25:06
Speaker 2: all the way to San Francisco. So now we're talking
25:09
Speaker 2: even longer of a time, probably than a month, and
25:11
Speaker 2: then take a steamer from the coast to Japan. So yeah,
25:16
Speaker 2: we're talking about a month's time one way.
25:19
Speaker 1: Which is crazy because now you can do it in
25:22
Speaker 1: a day, depending on where you live in the States.
25:25
Speaker 1: So it is it is great, These are grand adventures,
25:29
Speaker 1: but folks, we have to remember, despite acknowledging the man's genius,
25:33
Speaker 1: we also mentioned controversy, and as so often happens with
25:37
Speaker 1: larger than life figures, his meteor like rise in his
25:41
Speaker 1: professional career occurs in step with sharp and horrible declines
25:47
Speaker 1: in his personal life. Like we said, he married young
25:51
Speaker 1: who is only twenty two. Fast forward to nineteen oh three,
25:55
Speaker 1: He's designing a house for a married guy named Edwin Cheney,
26:00
Speaker 1: who is a neighbor of his in the in the
26:02
Speaker 1: Oak Park area of Chicago, and he meets Edwin's wife,
26:07
Speaker 1: a lady named Martha Borthwick Cheney or Mama with an
26:12
Speaker 1: H at the end to her.
26:14
Speaker 2: Friends, Mama, Mama Cheney, Martha Borthwick Cheney, or Mama to
26:19
Speaker 2: her friends. As he said, Ben was a kind of
26:22
Speaker 2: an early feminist and right viewed her in a very
26:26
Speaker 2: progressive way of of looking at women at the time,
26:30
Speaker 2: as his intellectual equal. Their relationship became the talk of
26:34
Speaker 2: the town. They could often be seen taking rides together
26:37
Speaker 2: and writes automobile through Oak.
26:41
Speaker 1: Park without their respective spouses, without a chaperone, without a
26:47
Speaker 1: without I don't know why I'm talking, like they were
26:49
Speaker 1: in Kentucky or something like that. I Yeah, Frank's marriage
26:55
Speaker 1: has been drifting for a while he is estranged from
26:58
Speaker 1: his wife Kitty, and in nineteen oh nine or by
27:02
Speaker 1: nineteen oh nine, his budding dalliance with Mama Cheney was
27:08
Speaker 1: increasingly difficult to ignore. These two folks actually ditched their
27:13
Speaker 1: spouses and their children and high tailed it off to Europe.
27:17
Speaker 1: This is a crazy scandal, and they both ask their
27:21
Speaker 1: spouses for a divorce. Mama's husband, Edwin, grants her a
27:26
Speaker 1: divorce and, actually, speaking of strange for the time, he
27:30
Speaker 1: gets custody of the children. But Frank's wife, Catherine Kiddie
27:35
Speaker 1: Right refuses. She says, I'm not going to agree to
27:38
Speaker 1: a divorce. You're crazy. We have six kids. What are
27:42
Speaker 1: you doing in Europe? They knew that while they were
27:46
Speaker 1: in Europe they had another series of adventures that may
27:51
Speaker 1: be a different episode, but they knew the entire time
27:56
Speaker 1: that this was a temporary escape for them. If they
28:00
Speaker 1: returned back to Chicago, they would not be able to
28:03
Speaker 1: weather the serious scandal that would ensue. Their affair was
28:08
Speaker 1: already generating a lot of ill will in high society,
28:13
Speaker 1: and it's the stuff that could negatively impact Frank's career,
28:17
Speaker 1: so to put it simply, and a little undiplomatically. Nobody
28:23
Speaker 1: wanted to work with a guy they thought was a scumbag.
28:27
Speaker 1: Nobody wanted to a lithario right with someone they found
28:31
Speaker 1: morally objectionable. And we also have to remember that when
28:35
Speaker 1: we're talking about his clients, we are talking about well
28:39
Speaker 1: to do people. It's there's a certain financial threshold required
28:43
Speaker 1: to say, build for me a building.
28:47
Speaker 2: Well not to mention that these circles of the super
28:51
Speaker 2: wealthy in a place like Chicago are pretty tight, and
28:55
Speaker 2: people talk crap and you can very quickly be ostracized
28:59
Speaker 2: and cast out of these social circles. Rich people be caddy.
29:04
Speaker 1: Yes, And we also have to remember that whenever some
29:08
Speaker 1: even before the Internet, folks, whenever somebody gets very famous
29:12
Speaker 1: or very prominent very quickly, there's always a contingent of
29:16
Speaker 1: the public that wants to tear them.
29:18
Speaker 2: Down, cut them down to size, take them down a
29:21
Speaker 2: few pegs, get them off there high. It would be
29:25
Speaker 2: an architectural version of a horse podium column. Yeah, there
29:29
Speaker 2: you got, And that's just what happened, more or less.
29:32
Speaker 2: But you know again, Lloyd at this point was kind
29:36
Speaker 2: of doing the more basic version of what ultimately became
29:42
Speaker 2: his kind of like you know, I'm the one who
29:44
Speaker 2: who decides what I build, and I'm gonna build things
29:47
Speaker 2: for the sake of like leaving a lasting impression, like
29:51
Speaker 2: the Pyramids of Old, you know that kind of stuff.
29:53
Speaker 2: Not so much I'm gonna build a house on contract,
29:57
Speaker 2: Like what am I gonna build that's gonna be one
29:59
Speaker 2: of the great wonders of the world or as we
30:02
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier on in ESCO World Heritage site.
30:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, So they try to address this scandal, and
30:10
Speaker 1: they go into kind of a pr move and a
30:13
Speaker 1: bit of a conspiracy. So Frank returns to the United
30:18
Speaker 1: States in October of nineteen ten, and he's ostensibly traveling alone.
30:23
Speaker 1: He comes back by himself, and he temporarily reconciles with
30:28
Speaker 1: his estranged wife Kitty. This is probably at least in
30:31
Speaker 1: part to improve his public image, as he said, in
30:34
Speaker 1: that tightly knit high society. But the entire time he
30:37
Speaker 1: has a secret plan. He goes to his mom and says, Mama,
30:44
Speaker 1: not my mistress but my actual mother. Wi Ye, mother,
30:48
Speaker 1: will you will you put your name on some land
30:53
Speaker 1: on a deed for me in spring Green, Wisconsin And
30:58
Speaker 1: this is near where his family has lived.
31:01
Speaker 2: Bro is this like a Disney kind of like Florida
31:04
Speaker 2: Project situation where he's trying to, you know, get people
31:08
Speaker 2: off his trail, where he's trying to do something in
31:10
Speaker 2: secret by putting his mom's name on it so that
31:12
Speaker 2: he's not tied to I'm sorry, i don't know this
31:14
Speaker 2: part of the story, so I'm on the edge of
31:15
Speaker 2: my seat.
31:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's exactly. It's eerily similar to that. You nailed it.
31:21
Speaker 1: He's trying to get people off his trail because putting
31:24
Speaker 1: the property in his mother's name helps him avoid too
31:27
Speaker 1: much public attention. Right, He'll still have a Chicago office,
31:31
Speaker 1: but he'll spend more time away and at this at
31:35
Speaker 1: the very same time that he is reconciling with his wife, Kittie, Right,
31:40
Speaker 1: he's also working to get funding for a house who
31:43
Speaker 1: wants to build on this land at Spring Green, and
31:47
Speaker 1: he's building it to be a studio, right, a meditative concentration,
31:52
Speaker 1: concentration spot for him. But it's also a place he
31:56
Speaker 1: can still live with his mistress, Mama Cheney, without reporters.
32:01
Speaker 2: Finding out he's being a le Yeah, he's making some
32:06
Speaker 2: money moves. That's just sick. Yeah, gosh, he has a
32:11
Speaker 2: bit of a Rascal.
32:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he This land purchase goes through on April tenth,
32:16
Speaker 1: nineteen eleven, and it's right next to land that his
32:20
Speaker 1: mom's family, the Lloyd Jones, is already owned. Right, starts
32:25
Speaker 1: building himself this new home and he calls it talison
32:29
Speaker 1: t A l I E s I n taliesan.
32:33
Speaker 2: Uh. This cult has giving talisman. You know, it's giving
32:38
Speaker 2: mystical wizardry. I don't know why.
32:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a It's that's perfect. It is a mystical
32:45
Speaker 1: wizard like name. It means shining brow in Welsh. Remember
32:49
Speaker 1: his mom's family is Welsh, and the name refers to
32:55
Speaker 1: an old school Welsh bard, poet, magician and priest.
33:06
Speaker 2: What a magician and those things seem diametrically opposed.
33:11
Speaker 1: Can you be a magician priest?
33:13
Speaker 2: I guess it depends on what your priesting? You know? Yeah,
33:16
Speaker 2: this is why I get.
33:17
Speaker 1: I guess it depends on what game you're playing. But
33:19
Speaker 1: you can multi class.
33:20
Speaker 2: That's eric. I love where this story is going. Then
33:23
Speaker 2: this is a lot of this is very new to me.
33:25
Speaker 2: So I'm guessing we're inching towards the aforementioned promise of
33:31
Speaker 2: cult activity.
33:33
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's We're going to get there, Volts, even
33:36
Speaker 1: if it takes us the rest.
33:38
Speaker 2: Of the week for a second episode. Even yeah, that's
33:41
Speaker 2: what you're in bying the rest of the week. I
33:43
Speaker 2: got you, I got you.
33:45
Speaker 1: So this home eventually it's going to become a commune.
33:50
Speaker 1: Uh Now it's officially known as the Talison Fellowship, Talisan
33:53
Speaker 1: North or Talisan Spring Green. It's a beautiful how studio
33:59
Speaker 1: custom built on and what ultimately becomes more than five
34:02
Speaker 1: hundred acres, And it's really clever because the main compound
34:09
Speaker 1: is itself a testament to the Prairie School. It's an
34:12
Speaker 1: advertisement for Frank's design philosophies. So he abandons his wife
34:17
Speaker 1: again and the six kids again. He shacks up with
34:21
Speaker 1: his mistress. She is now going by Mama Borthwick post divorce.
34:26
Speaker 1: Right she gets there that summer, she tries to throw
34:29
Speaker 1: the heat off too by letting it be unofficially known
34:34
Speaker 1: quote unquote that she's living with Wright's sister, with Frank
34:39
Speaker 1: Wright's sister. But Frank is, for better or worse, pretty
34:43
Speaker 1: much a celebrity. People want to know what he's doing.
34:46
Speaker 1: TMZ is not in play yet, but people still have
34:49
Speaker 1: that instinct. So word gets around, Yeah, gets around. He's
34:52
Speaker 1: still with his mistress.
34:53
Speaker 2: Well he's also yeah, yes, that's right. And Ben, would
34:58
Speaker 2: you say this is he's building a bit of a
35:00
Speaker 2: cult of personality at the very least by this point
35:03
Speaker 2: he's making a splash, both with his work and his
35:07
Speaker 2: idiosyncratic behavior.
35:09
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yes, very much. So we're laying the bones for
35:13
Speaker 1: that conversation about about cultiness and tragedy. We know that
35:19
Speaker 1: one reporter from the Chicago Examiner figured out that Frank
35:24
Speaker 1: and Mama were living together again over there in Wisconsin,
35:28
Speaker 1: and literally on Christmas Eve of that same year, the
35:33
Speaker 1: Chicago Tribune revealed the truth about Talison to the world,
35:37
Speaker 1: and they didn't care about this fancy, you know, somewhat
35:40
Speaker 1: high fluting Welsh name and heritage and all that. Instead
35:44
Speaker 1: they called this Frank's love cottage. It's Castle of Love.
35:48
Speaker 1: So he's forty seven, and again he is in hot water,
35:52
Speaker 1: but he and Mama feel like they're past the point
35:54
Speaker 1: of return. You know, they're already living there.
35:57
Speaker 2: So if they were going to have to live a
35:59
Speaker 2: life of social exile, they were able to kind of
36:03
Speaker 2: have it on their terms. You know. Talisan was definitely
36:07
Speaker 2: not the worst place for them to do that. They
36:09
Speaker 2: had everything they need. Talisan is primarily referred to in
36:13
Speaker 2: three big Stages of construction because over the course of
36:16
Speaker 2: rights occupancy, two major fires led to the need for
36:21
Speaker 2: significant restorations and which also probably led to some alterations
36:26
Speaker 2: of the previous designs. Yeah.
36:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even Frank didn't get everything right every time.
36:32
Speaker 1: There were some things he designed that were beautiful that
36:36
Speaker 1: that just didn't work. They weren't super practical even if
36:39
Speaker 1: they were beautiful. But think of it like Talson. One
36:43
Speaker 1: has best thought of as three big sections. There's a
36:45
Speaker 1: long section to the east that's the residential wing where
36:49
Speaker 1: Frank and Mama lived. There's a big section on the
36:52
Speaker 1: west that's the agricultural wing. And then there's an office
36:56
Speaker 1: wing connecting the other sections, or I should say, like
37:00
Speaker 1: the business wing and then the office wing or the
37:02
Speaker 1: studio wing and the office wing. There's a courtyard to
37:05
Speaker 1: the southwest. There's stables, there's a garage, there's servants quarters,
37:09
Speaker 1: maintenance facilities, and as soon as they move in, Frank says,
37:14
Speaker 1: all right, I'm getting back in the swing of things
37:16
Speaker 1: with this architecture stuff. I'm still really about that. But
37:21
Speaker 1: due to this negative publicity from the affair. There are
37:24
Speaker 1: still people like you would call them draftsmen who come
37:27
Speaker 1: to study under him, but high society still doesn't really
37:32
Speaker 1: want to work with this guy.
37:33
Speaker 2: Would he have been independently wealthy at this point too,
37:36
Speaker 2: And I mean it seems like he wasn't needing cash money,
37:39
Speaker 2: you know, to take these gigs, like he was sort
37:42
Speaker 2: of focusing on building this compound for himself. So he
37:46
Speaker 2: had to have had some independence at this point.
37:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was making he was making a living, right,
37:52
Speaker 1: but he was not I don't believe at this point
37:55
Speaker 1: was he was at the juncture where he could just retire.
38:00
Speaker 2: He still had but he had some flexibility because he
38:02
Speaker 2: certainly didn't seem like he was not able to pursue
38:07
Speaker 2: this project because it didn't have enough cash coming in.
38:09
Speaker 2: But he also wasn't doing tons of these more traditional
38:12
Speaker 2: gigs because of the fact that he had kind of
38:15
Speaker 2: been shunned.
38:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, and his stature in the architectural community is indeed
38:22
Speaker 1: a currency all its own. So there were still at
38:25
Speaker 1: this point. Even then, even early on, there were people
38:28
Speaker 1: who said, yeah, I know about this scandal, but being
38:32
Speaker 1: associated with this man's legendary work is more than worth
38:36
Speaker 1: the social backlash to me. So he had a lot
38:38
Speaker 1: of disciples showing up, a lot of employees. Local residents
38:43
Speaker 1: did not agree. This was the big scandal of the
38:46
Speaker 1: small town. They didn't Soup's dupes appreciate their new neighbors.
38:50
Speaker 1: We have a statement from the superintendent of Iowa County Schools,
38:55
Speaker 1: who I guess was a moral authority of the time. Yeah,
39:00
Speaker 1: and so okay, this is like where's joh rule? But
39:02
Speaker 1: the superintendent of the schools.
39:05
Speaker 2: We must know where he falls on this issue.
39:07
Speaker 1: Yes, right said. The scandal is bound to out a
39:11
Speaker 1: demoralizing effect on the school children of the community. It
39:14
Speaker 1: is an outrage to allow young men and women, and
39:17
Speaker 1: boys and girls to grow up in the belief that
39:20
Speaker 1: a man and a woman can go disregard the marriage bonds.
39:24
Speaker 1: Living in sin. They didn't say living in sin. We
39:27
Speaker 1: said that last part.
39:28
Speaker 2: We did. Yes, we did, indeed living in sin at
39:31
Speaker 2: the Love Shack, Baby, Love Shack.
39:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. And this did not This did not get to
39:41
Speaker 1: Frank and Mama. At least they did not leave town.
39:44
Speaker 1: They stood up against the social opprobrium, and when they
39:47
Speaker 1: refused to leave, some of the more moralistic locals even
39:51
Speaker 1: went to the town sheriff and said, you've got to
39:54
Speaker 1: arrest this Frank guy. And the sheriff said, for what
39:57
Speaker 1: they were like, he's a jerk. Uh. It didn't work, spoiler,
40:03
Speaker 1: and Frank wasn't cowed. In fact, he doubled out. I
40:06
Speaker 1: think I would find this pretty interesting.
40:09
Speaker 2: Phenomenal dude. This quote is so indicative of where he
40:12
Speaker 2: was at in terms of his opinion about himself.
40:15
Speaker 1: He had some hard, hot and I will say condescending takes.
40:19
Speaker 1: Can you give it to us? Oh?
40:20
Speaker 2: I would love to. He said two women were necessary
40:26
Speaker 2: for a man of artistic mind, one to be the
40:29
Speaker 2: mother of his children and the other to be his
40:31
Speaker 2: mental companion, his inspiration and soulmate. Well, you see, the
40:39
Speaker 2: world might could be the same person. It's possible. I
40:42
Speaker 2: don't now. Look, I'm no traditionalist by any shirts of
40:46
Speaker 2: the imagination, and you know, love is love, but it's
40:50
Speaker 2: an odd way of putting it, especially with the one
40:53
Speaker 2: needing to be the mother of his child, the implication
40:55
Speaker 2: being that that person couldn't possibly have the qualities of
40:59
Speaker 2: the other. He is inherently like misogynists, Yes, very much so.
41:05
Speaker 1: And also the condescension of a man of artistic mind, right, Like,
41:11
Speaker 1: it's okay for the dumbs and the pores to do
41:14
Speaker 1: whatever they want, but I'm above it. He also he
41:19
Speaker 1: had all these problematic quotes. He told another reporter. Laws
41:23
Speaker 1: and rules are made for the average. The ordinary man
41:26
Speaker 1: cannot live without rules to guide his conduct. It is
41:30
Speaker 1: infinitely more difficult to live without rules. But that is
41:34
Speaker 1: what the really honest, sincere thinking man is compelled to do.
41:40
Speaker 1: Wank wank, wank. What a dick?
41:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a dick, but he was also genius. And yeah,
41:47
Speaker 2: there's a Venn diagram of dicks and geniuses. When you can,
41:50
Speaker 2: you can quote me on them. So not only was
41:54
Speaker 2: he not apologetic or contrite in the slightest, he seemed
41:57
Speaker 2: pretty sure that he was in a rarefied air, floating
42:03
Speaker 2: above whatever traditional society expected of him or considered moral,
42:09
Speaker 2: and didn't have a problem coming off as you know,
42:13
Speaker 2: heavy handed, high minded, condescending in his quotes.
42:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely got some holier than now vibes.
42:24
Speaker 1: And the thing is, though, even though even though it
42:27
Speaker 1: was difficult for him to get commissions, and even though
42:31
Speaker 1: he was maybe not working as much as he wanted to,
42:35
Speaker 1: what he did create during this period made the history books,
42:39
Speaker 1: things like the Midway Gardens in Chicago and the Avery
42:43
Speaker 1: Coonley Playhouse in Riverside, Illinois. Oh and also at the
42:47
Speaker 1: same time, he keeps on collecting this Japanese art so
42:51
Speaker 1: much so that he becomes separate from architecture. He becomes
42:55
Speaker 1: kind of famous as an authority on Japanese art.
42:59
Speaker 2: Makes sense. There's been a lot written about this period
43:03
Speaker 2: of you know Right's life and this first version of Tolisin,
43:10
Speaker 2: and it's definitely worth checking out onto itself. For a
43:13
Speaker 2: time though, it seemed that Frank and Mama we're going
43:17
Speaker 2: to be able to live out their lives in relative,
43:20
Speaker 2: if isolated peace. That is, until the fire.
43:28
Speaker 1: That's our cliffhanger. Folks are so proud of ourselves for
43:31
Speaker 1: doing a two Parker on purpose. This is part one
43:36
Speaker 1: of Frank Lloyd Wright Wright's dark Side from colts to
43:40
Speaker 1: mass murders. Please check out our second episode coming out
43:45
Speaker 1: later this week. That this is the one where we
43:49
Speaker 1: have the big plot twist in the turn. But honestly, no,
43:52
Speaker 1: we couldn't think of a better cliffhanger.
43:54
Speaker 2: The fire.
43:57
Speaker 1: Big thanks to our super producer Max Blaze, and Saddles. Williams.
44:01
Speaker 1: Fire just was on my mind with that one.
44:03
Speaker 2: Max blazed in the days, Williams, Here we go big
44:07
Speaker 2: thanks to aj Bahamas, Jacob's big big thanks for rude
44:11
Speaker 2: Dudes of ridiculous crime.
44:13
Speaker 1: Who else, who else?
44:14
Speaker 2: Chris hasiotas the names, Jeff Coats here in spirits wherever
44:17
Speaker 2: they may roam, Rachel Bigxminish Lance, the Doctor of Underwater Explosions, Yes.
44:24
Speaker 1: Ed of course, A tepid how do you do to
44:27
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister?
44:30
Speaker 2: A passive aggressive doffing of the cap. Hey, we'll see
44:34
Speaker 2: you next time, folks for Part two. For more podcasts
44:43
Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
44:47
Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows,