Latest / Ambitious Podcast / EP. 54: Are You a Visionary or an Operator? Why This ONE Answer Changes Everything w/ Ashley DeLuca

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EP. 54: Are You a Visionary or an Operator? Why This ONE Answer Changes Everything w/ Ashley DeLuca · Ambitious Podcast

0:07
Hello and welcome back to Ambitious.
0:10
So you know how everyone always says I'm ACEO or maybe that
0:15
they're the CEO of a company. Have you ever thought about
0:18
hiring ACEO to run your business and you staying as the founder
0:23
or the creative? Or maybe you've considered
0:26
yourself being ACEO for someone else's business.
0:29
Well, today I had the absolute pleasure of diving in with
0:33
Ashley DeLuca, who is going to help to unpack for us everything
0:37
you need to know about not only becoming ACEO, but also most
0:41
importantly, hiring and delegating to have ACEO run your
0:45
company alongside you. Today we talk about the role of
0:49
ACEO in business growth, transitioning from entrepreneur
0:52
to CEO, how to build trust and navigate founder to CEO
0:57
dynamics, and ultimately how to collaborate together to have the
1:00
most amount of impact. We also talk about in that
1:03
dynamic between founder and CEO, what are the power of boundaries
1:07
and emotional regulation? What are the key traits and
1:10
skills to be an effective leader and when and how should you hire
1:15
ACEO for your business? Today is going to really expand
1:19
the way that you think about operating a business.
1:22
You most likely are founder, CEO and every other title in your
1:26
business right now. And today I think is really
1:29
going to surprise you because Ashley gives a lot of curveballs
1:33
that are really going to breakdown what we might perceive
1:36
to be the right time or the way that ACEO will look when they're
1:41
on boarded into your business. So without further ado, let's
1:44
get into today's episode. Hello, everyone, and welcome
1:48
back to Ambitious. If you were watching this, you
1:50
are seeing that I am joined by another beautiful face today.
1:53
And I'm so excited to welcome Ash to Ambitious because I
1:57
actually very quick story, another entrepreneur friend of
2:00
mine was talking about his business and was like, you know,
2:03
it's just exceptional. And this is what's working and
2:05
this is what's not. And we were diving into all
2:07
these business and he's like, but none of this would be
2:09
possible without Ashley. And I was like, OK, who's
2:11
Ashley? He's like, she's my CEO.
2:12
She makes the entire thing run. And he went on a tangent about
2:17
how she had completely changed his business, the support she
2:20
brought to his business, what's been able to do since
2:21
introducing her? And I was like, OK, like, tell
2:23
me more. I'm super interested.
2:24
And so obviously, since that point, I've had the absolute
2:27
pleasure of getting to know Ashley deeper in her role within
2:30
the business and all the things that she actually does.
2:32
And was very excited to have her join me today to talk about all
2:35
things of what it is and means to be ACEO in a business and to
2:40
be in that role in that title. So Ash, welcome to Ambitious.
2:44
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me.
2:47
It is such an honor. I'm.
2:50
Excited. I'm excited.
2:52
I feel like this is a topic, at least for me, that I feel like I
2:55
don't see covered a lot on podcast because I feel like CE
2:59
OS not are not always like in the limelight.
3:01
Like I feel like the founder, the visionary is always the one
3:04
that people are like, OK, like tell me the whole thing.
3:05
But I'm like, you literally run the machine.
3:07
So I am just so excited to dive in.
3:10
But I think a great place to start would be for anybody who's
3:12
listening who's like, OK, like Ashley, who are you?
3:15
Tell me a little bit about your story.
3:16
Give me a little one-on-one on like, how did this even come to
3:19
be that you are the CEO of the business?
3:22
Well, let me tell you what, it was never on my vision board.
3:25
I remember back in like 2018, right before I had my son, I had
3:30
went through the process of mapping out Ashley's five year
3:33
vision. And at that time I had a huge
3:36
Gray cork board and I had done index cards and I was like, I'm
3:40
going to do this and then I'm going to do this and then I'm
3:42
going to do this. I have like 12 of them and none
3:45
of them are CEO. And so for me, entrepreneurship
3:49
started off originally, which is a lot of dissatisfaction.
3:53
I was very unfulfilled in my corporate role.
3:56
I felt very much so like I was overlooked and I was trying to
4:01
apply for roles that I was like, Oh my gosh, I want to do your
4:04
social media, I want to do your web design.
4:06
And I had self-taught myself all of it from library books when I
4:09
was 14. And so I was like, I can do it,
4:12
but I don't have the degree. I can do it, but I don't have
4:15
enough experience because I'm 21.
4:19
And so my best friend, CC, at the time, we were sitting there
4:23
at Panera Bread. And she, I always say is double
4:26
the age, double the wisdom, because I was in my 20s, she was
4:28
in her 40s. And she's like, Ash, why don't
4:31
you just go make it like, why do you need somebody else to give
4:34
you the permission slip to start doing web design?
4:37
And I was like, Oh, yeah, OK. So that was the day my first
4:42
business was ever born. And Ashley went through the
4:45
process of doing Craigslist ad searching.
4:49
And I don't know how I wasn't kidnapped or killed.
4:51
I'm going to be honest. I met up with random men at
4:53
Panera to talk about their business and their goals and
4:57
their vision for their web design.
4:59
And it was a journey. It was a journey of me being
5:03
able to trust myself to find fulfillment and what I was doing
5:07
and to be able to expand and grow in like a very beautiful
5:10
way. I love Panera Bread, by the way,
5:13
like I love you use that as your office.
5:15
I'm I'm so excited by that. I'm like the people who worked
5:17
there must have been like a look at this girl taking meetings.
5:19
I love it. I was like, I don't know what
5:23
type of meetings they were thinking I was taking, but I was
5:25
definitely taking marketing meetings.
5:26
That was portrait. No, that's all that matters.
5:28
She's taking meetings. OK, so you go into, obviously
5:31
you're in corporate, you realize and you know that there's more
5:34
that you could do and that you want a desire to achieve.
5:37
Then you obviously go into entrepreneurship and so how do
5:40
we go from entrepreneurship to being a CEO of a business now?
5:44
So I went through the process of leaving my full time job in 2018
5:49
when I had my son. I made the dedication.
5:52
I was like, Nope, like I am going to stay home with you.
5:54
Like that's how we're going to live life.
5:56
And ever since he was a baby, we've always done
5:59
entrepreneurship together, always.
6:02
Like he was always in his little bassinet and I was always
6:04
working and like, we made it work.
6:06
And he knows, like when mom's on Zoom calls, he can come in and
6:08
give the heart and then he goes, gives the heart and goes.
6:12
And so for me, it was very much so a journey of expanding the
6:18
business and doing it all by myself.
6:21
And then coming to a point where I was on Facebook and I saw a
6:25
Facebook post that one of my friends had shared and it was a
6:28
video clip of George. Now, if you know current George
6:31
versus this or this version of George that I met, this was very
6:35
much so like Harden as masculine, very straight to the
6:38
point, but like still very teddy bear of truth.
6:41
And he was talking about in this video about how e-mail marketing
6:44
needs to be relationship based and why that would be.
6:48
And at that point, I had pivoted my business from web design to
6:51
e-mail because I love to write. Like creative writing was
6:54
something that I always enjoyed as a child.
6:55
And I was like, perfect. People can like pay me to write.
6:58
Like, sign me up. And so I instantly fell in love
7:02
with George. I was like, I don't know what
7:03
this juice is, but I want to go drink it.
7:06
And so I joined his Facebook group.
7:08
I like listened to his podcast. I did like all the things.
7:11
And I started first and foremost as a course member.
7:15
So I started just like bringing in all of his courses and all
7:18
stuff and he was so kind and like bought time on his
7:20
calendar. He gifted me one of his courses.
7:22
Like I feel like he planted the seed long before either of us
7:26
knew that that was a seed that we were both going to harvest
7:28
together. So coming into a couple years
7:32
later, like being part of his mastermind, I'm like fast
7:35
forwarding, but like you get the gist of like we're building this
7:38
relationship together. Essentially.
7:40
I ended up getting hired on his team to do social media and then
7:45
we got to a point where his current CEO had to step out and
7:50
he was, and this is me saying what I felt like he was going
7:53
through. He was basically like, oh crap,
7:55
what am I going to do? Like I have this social media go
7:58
and I have this video editor. How are we running this
8:00
business? So he ended up slacking me and
8:03
he was like, hey, do you want to be my CEO?
8:06
And I was like, I don't know how to do that.
8:10
And I was like I don't know how to do that but I can figure it
8:14
out. Love the honesty and the answer.
8:17
Love that. No idea how to do that, but like
8:19
interested. Tell me more.
8:20
I love that answer. I have that.
8:23
That's what I would have said. That's what I would have said
8:25
yeah. I.
8:25
Was literally staring at the message.
8:27
I remember the exact moment it was because I was in my parents
8:30
basement because I had just moved out of my previous house
8:35
and I was going through my divorce and I was just like, Are
8:39
you sure you want me? Like I'm literally in the middle
8:42
of like an entire huge like life transition.
8:45
I'm literally a mess. I'm in therapy basically every
8:48
other day and you want me to be your CEO.
8:52
I was like, OK. And basically like from that
8:55
moment on of me creating that commitment of like, I'm always
8:59
going to figure it out with you and like, as long as you promise
9:02
that you'll always figure it out with me.
9:05
We're in it. We're in it and we've been in it
9:08
for like 3 years now, so yeah. Of all, and I also feel like
9:11
that's I just wanted to take a second too, to just acknowledge
9:15
what you even just said, which was the idea that you have
9:18
raising a baby at home with you while you're working while going
9:21
through divorce and moving like that on top of now starting a
9:25
new position. Like how would you say if
9:29
someone cuz I've had a lot of conversations with people who
9:31
are in that season. Is there anything that you might
9:34
recommend to someone who's in that time where they're just
9:36
like, I feel like I'm in a tilt a world, but yet there's a lot
9:39
of movement and momentum happening like in the business,
9:41
but there's just a lot happening in life right now.
9:44
Yeah. OK.
9:45
So the other thing is, is that like when he had asked me, I
9:48
also had like a pretty full client load.
9:51
Like I was still running my own business, like my own marketing
9:55
agency, while also doing his social media like on the side.
10:00
So then then there was this like transition period of like, I
10:03
don't even know like how we're going to do this.
10:06
And for me, it took as type A is what I would say I am.
10:11
It took a lot of planning, a lot of intentional planning in
10:14
regards to with how I was spending my time, how I was
10:16
making use of that time. And for me at that time, it was
10:19
a lot of late nights because I would wait for my son to go to
10:22
sleep and then I would come on and like do 2 hours of focus
10:25
work. It gets so much done in that two
10:27
hours. And just also recognizing like,
10:30
when is your most productive time, right?
10:32
Like, not forcing it to be at 5:00 AM if you can't even keep
10:34
your eyes open long enough to drink your morning coffee and
10:37
finding, like, what is this season right now?
10:40
And like, I don't work past 8:00 at this point, ever.
10:43
I can't stay awake past 8:00. I'm in my bed with my Kindle at
10:46
this point. Yeah.
10:47
So it's like also recognizing that like those late nights were
10:50
definitely a season for me and they served me really well to
10:53
then get me to this point now. I love that.
10:57
And something I wanted to kind of unpack with you was when you
10:59
had said like, I don't know how to do this or I've never done
11:02
this before. Because I think for me, I might
11:05
think, OK, well, my normal thought process before I had
11:08
been exposed to like hearing all of the things that you manage
11:11
and that you do and that you've done.
11:13
I used to think that like to have ACEO meant you were hiring
11:16
ACEO from another business, as in like someone else was ACEO
11:19
somewhere else and you're bringing them into that would be
11:21
the CEO in your business. But obviously you weren't
11:23
starting in being ACEO elsewhere, you were starting in
11:25
entrepreneurship. And so I'm curious like, do you
11:27
think for someone hiring that like that's even really
11:31
necessary? Like does someone have to even
11:32
have the role or like the resume, if you will, of being
11:36
ACEO elsewhere? Or can they really just have
11:38
like the entrepreneur skills that come with like the grit and
11:41
the building and then transfer that to a business?
11:44
Definitely the latter 100% because you know, when I think
11:48
about when somebody comes in from necessarily more so of a
11:52
degree or position versus the, you know, like obviously the
11:56
ambition, right, the grit, the willpower, the desire, the
12:00
discipline, I think can often far outweigh what someone's done
12:04
in the past. OK.
12:07
Yeah, because I think that that's the biggest curiosity for
12:10
most people is like also even as you said, like being inside of
12:13
his program, the other question comes up, which is like where do
12:15
I even find somebody? Because like for you, obviously
12:19
this wasn't, it wasn't on the 12th things on the vision board.
12:21
I'm curious like if someone's listening and they're thinking,
12:24
OK, like I would love to have ACEO, where does where does that
12:29
even happen in the sense of like if you were going to recommend
12:32
to a startup business or a growing business to start to
12:34
find someone, where might you recommend that they find
12:38
someone? Or is it really recommended in
12:39
your in your lens to like go right underneath your nose?
12:42
You might have like a gem of a human being sitting there, kind
12:45
of like perfect for this opportunity.
12:48
Oh, yeah. So I think first and foremost, I
12:52
do believe that people are planted in our life for a
12:55
reason. Always and often times I do feel
13:00
very inclined to state that like a lot of times the people that
13:04
you least expect but still have those qualities are the people
13:08
that will then go to you with the next level.
13:11
And so like when we think about like filling ACEO position, for
13:15
me it would be like really think about like, well, why?
13:18
And also not just even why, but also like what skill sets would
13:22
then pair with mine? Because I feel like the number
13:24
one reason why George and I work is because we're polar
13:26
opposites. Like he's very like Mr. Unicorn,
13:30
go with the wind wherever life takes him, like he's here for.
13:33
And I'm very much so like running behind him with the map
13:37
being like, wait, how does this point go to this point?
13:39
And I got the sharpies and I'm erasing and I'm like, oh, like
13:42
all the things. Yeah.
13:43
And so it's like if you're the planner, you don't want to bring
13:46
another planner in. Y'all will out plan each other
13:48
all day and I'll get anything done.
13:50
And then it's also very much so like if you have somebody who's
13:53
very type A, you don't want 2 type A's running the same
13:56
company. Like you need type A and type B
13:58
right? And like I'll even take like the
14:01
human design side, right? Like he's a generator, I'm a
14:04
projector. Like he's a generator of all the
14:05
ideas and I'm the projector and I see the vision and I make it
14:08
happen. Yeah.
14:09
And so often times I do believe that a lot of times there are
14:13
people that are already in our world because I do believe that
14:16
we do attract the next person that we need in the next part of
14:20
our journey. Like I think that distinction
14:23
is, is huge because I think that a lot of people don't know the
14:27
difference between being a founder and being ACEO of the
14:30
business. Like all these terms kind of get
14:31
like combined together, like the operator or the CEO, the
14:35
founder. And I think it's really
14:37
important that people recognize that they are really completely
14:40
different, like avatars, if I was to kind of put it that way,
14:43
of the different types, like personality types, you need for
14:46
the business to be successful. Because when you're first
14:48
starting as a business owner, you're the founder, the
14:50
visionary, the creator, the innovator, right?
14:54
But I think a lot of people, and I don't, I don't want, this is
14:57
just my personal opinion, but I think a lot of people don't
14:59
realize they're not born operators.
15:01
They're really creative, they're super visionary and they can
15:05
really see where the business can go and have a lot of
15:08
creative ideas. But to your point, I think
15:11
sometimes it's recognizing what skills we don't have and then
15:14
realizing, hey, you know what, you have great ideas and you're
15:17
great at vision, but you don't necessarily lean or are inclined
15:21
in the way of operating because like I since getting to know
15:23
you, I'm like your brain, I'm also productor.
15:26
Your brain works like my brain works in the sense of like the
15:29
highlighters, the structure, the tables, the lists, like all of
15:32
that stuff I nerd out on. But I feel like some people are
15:36
not wired that way. And then they think about, OK,
15:37
well, why is my business not growing?
15:39
And it's like maybe that operation aspect is really
15:41
missing. And so like for you guys, how
15:44
does that relationship work between the founder and the like
15:46
the visionary versus the operator?
15:48
Like how do you guys kind of respect your different
15:52
categories or like start to work in harmony with each other to
15:54
help the business grow? Not without a lot of growing
15:57
pains. Honesty so good.
16:03
We struggled, we struggled. I mean, this is my perspective.
16:07
He may say totally differently. He might say like it wasn't like
16:10
rainbows, but like for me, we struggled a lot in the first
16:14
year like of working together. And the reason why I bring this
16:17
up is because I think every partnership comes with struggle
16:23
as you meld together and create trust and respect and also
16:27
understand where everybody is in their lanes.
16:29
Because for me, I think starting off like he had a completely
16:33
different vision of what Aceo was based on what I thought Aceo
16:38
was. Because quite frankly, actually
16:39
didn't really know what Aceo was.
16:41
But it also wasn't like Ashley coming into a large company and
16:45
having tons of ideas that were magically going to work.
16:47
I was like, wait a second, I don't know what I'm doing,
16:50
remember? And so that first year was very
16:55
much so like having a lot of grace for each other and having
16:59
the honest conversations where it's just like, hey, when you do
17:02
this, this really irritates me and this doesn't support me.
17:05
Can we do like potentially this or this?
17:08
And so a lot of it is like a lot of redirection conversations.
17:12
And I think of that I would be doing people a disservice if I
17:15
didn't actually speak to that and like, share that because a
17:18
lot of times you think, oh, I'm going to hire this one person
17:21
and this one person is going to change everything for me.
17:24
And it's just going to be like peanut butter and Jelly.
17:27
Yeah, it could. It could.
17:29
And I don't think there's anything wrong with there being
17:32
lots of discussions, especially in the forefront, to be able to
17:35
then be able to create the harmony that we have now because
17:38
we've spent so much time together in communication.
17:42
And I think that's the other part is like, we communicate
17:45
quite often and quite frequently.
17:47
And now like I've been blessed to be able to come to a point
17:50
where I can be a lot more direct and specific because we've
17:53
created that trust where I don't feel like I have to come in.
17:57
And for me it was people pleasing, like being able to
18:00
like fluff, basically the question of like, Hey, I hope
18:04
you're having an incredible, amazing day.
18:05
No, no, no, no, no. And then be like, here's the
18:07
hard question. But you know what?
18:08
I hope you have a great, amazing day.
18:10
No, I just give them the hard question.
18:11
And I'm like, like, hey guys. Here's what it is.
18:13
Here's what it is. Here's the direct complaint.
18:16
Well, like you said that you guys had different visions of
18:19
what you thought ACEO might be. And so I'm curious, like for
18:22
you, if someone's even thinking to themselves, OK, maybe I'm
18:26
just, I shouldn't say just I am the innovator, I am the
18:29
visionary for the business. And I'm thinking about maybe
18:30
having ACEO come in. What is that person like if you
18:35
were like in your experience now to kind of describe like, hey,
18:38
if you're thinking about bringing in ACEO, this is what
18:40
that actually means. Not just like, hey, I'm
18:43
delegating things off to somebody else, but like what
18:46
does that actually mean to you now that you've kind of been in
18:49
the weeds of it? So the first word that comes to
18:52
mind for me is like partner. I think that's the biggest
18:55
thing. Like you guys are actually
18:57
partners in joint decisions and you also equally take ownership.
19:03
And so there's no negating, there's no back and forth.
19:05
There's no like, well, I told you to do this and you decide to
19:08
do this. It's like no like words coming
19:10
together and being able to then trust and make decisions off of
19:14
that. And so for me, ACEO is somebody
19:18
who is just as enrolled in the vision as you are, who is
19:24
willing to take the punch just as much as you are, and who will
19:27
also go through the process of fighting for your vision as much
19:31
as you will. And how they do that is up to
19:35
you, right? You can decide who does the
19:37
marketing, who's going to do the sales calls, who's going to do
19:40
whatever, right? Like all of the, for me, the
19:42
little things are the actual tasks.
19:44
I think the most important part of like, especially when you're
19:46
finding your person is what do they actually believe is
19:50
possible? And will they also hold the
19:51
faith for you? That division of responsibility
19:56
is and even partnership is huge because I think.
20:00
Something that I could see being a fear for some of my like
20:03
massive controllers is like the idea that I'd love to have
20:06
somebody else in the business with me, but thinking about me
20:09
not having the full say makes them uncomfy.
20:12
And then I think there's the other side of the spectrum,
20:14
which is somebody who's like, I just want relief So I can just
20:18
lean into the areas that I enjoy, which is the other thing
20:20
I hear a lot, which is I love marketing, I love selling, or I
20:24
love serving clients. I just want to market and serve
20:26
clients and then the CEO does everything else.
20:28
So when you talk about that kind of like division of
20:31
responsibility, like do you feel like a 5050 is a good way to
20:36
kind of approach a business? Or like do you think there's
20:39
been situations where you're like, listen, like this is just
20:41
how it's going to go down? And like, do you ever kind of
20:43
get that final hammer to be like, this is just what we're
20:45
doing? Like how do you guys navigate
20:48
the decision making? I guess is that the thought
20:50
process that I'm thinking about? How do we navigate decisions of
20:53
who gets the final say between the founder or CEO when you have
20:57
ACEO? For us personally, it depends on
21:03
the category. So like going to division for an
21:06
example. Generally speaking, for the most
21:09
part, I would say I make 75% of the decisions in like the
21:13
day-to-day operational pieces. George takes that other 25,
21:20
which is like our client fulfillment, how we do client
21:22
work. What does that look like,
21:24
especially in like the coaching and things like that.
21:27
And so originally it was definitely flip-flopped where he
21:31
was making 75, I was making 25. And it started off that way
21:36
because of, again, that desire and need to control on his part
21:41
where I had to go through the process of creating enough trust
21:45
routine us for him to know that like, oh, she's got me.
21:49
Like she is making the best decision for everybody involved.
21:52
And it's not just like whatever is going to be best for her,
21:55
right? And so I feel like there's like
21:58
repetition of trust that comes with that because it's like I'm
22:01
showing you that I'm committed and like every single day I will
22:04
show you that I'm committed to this business.
22:07
And so it's definitely with him being able to release control
22:11
has then turned into 2575. And I wouldn't necessarily even
22:15
say that his 25% is like smaller in regards to with the grand
22:19
scheme of things. I would say that it's more so
22:22
like the most impactful 25% can sound because it's with our
22:26
one-on-one clients. And you know, the, the impact
22:29
that they then create is so much greater than what I just create
22:33
when I'm figuring out how do we want to do SLPS.
22:36
Yep. And I think The thing is with,
22:39
with the roles, like I, I love that you said like over time,
22:42
because I think people like us are planners.
22:45
Like this is the division you take 25, I take 75.
22:48
And like, we're very structured in the way that we always like
22:50
plan and, and create things. But I think like what you're
22:54
saying is that there's really an evidence collection.
22:56
The more evidence you have of like this person's got it, the
22:58
more handoff can happen. And so I'm curious for someone
23:02
just to set really fair expectations for people.
23:05
Like when we think about training and onboarding and all
23:08
that stuff, like what was that timeline?
23:10
I mean, were we talking like 60 days?
23:12
Are we talking like a year and a half for you guys to really feel
23:14
like, OK, like now we're in synergy?
23:16
Like when you guys think about where you are now, how long
23:19
would you say it took to kind of get to the harmony you're at?
23:24
And maybe there were phases, maybe not phases of messiness in
23:27
the middle. Yeah, definitely lots of messy
23:30
in the middle because I feel like in the past three years,
23:33
like we've both grown exponentially and because of our
23:38
commitment to growth is the reason why we're at where we're
23:41
at today. Like if we were both to have
23:43
stayed the same where we were three years ago, like we
23:45
wouldn't be in business together, one of us would have
23:48
like been like peace, I'm done with you, you know.
23:51
And so I would, I would say like I started to feel fully
23:57
committed and into it probably a year ago was when I Foley was
24:05
like, OK, I'm done with my other business.
24:08
That was me coming forward. And like it wasn't even a
24:11
conversation we had. It was something I decided on my
24:13
own was like, I'm telling you, I'm fully committed to this
24:17
business and yet I haven't actually fully committed to the
24:21
business. And so releasing my side of it
24:25
like my business, like my other side of it is like when that
24:28
transition really happened for me where I was like, OK, I'm all
24:31
in. Like there is nothing else,
24:34
right? Like I'm not, I'm not seeing no
24:36
other businesses like I'm just seeing yours.
24:38
So like. We're monogamous.
24:40
OK, this is it. This is it.
24:42
And so, yeah, it was very much so I would say like a year ago.
24:46
And so it's like 2 years of basically like constant
24:50
communication, constant just commitment and constantly being
24:55
in the weeds for sure. And I'm thinking about the
24:59
founder who's probably listening to this and thinking, OK, like I
25:03
would consider having a CEO. I would love to kind of
25:05
entertain what that looks like. That communication you talk
25:08
about. If someone wants to have an
25:10
Ashley on their team or as part of their vision, what is that?
25:16
What do you need from them? Like what is who does the
25:18
founder need to be? What is the how does the
25:20
visionary need to operate? Like if you were like, if I was
25:22
going to have the best, I was going to create this ideal
25:24
partner. This is how I would recommend
25:27
you to either prep yourself or to operate in this dynamic to
25:31
like really allow someone like yourself to truly shine and help
25:34
the business scale. Yeah.
25:37
So I think the most important part when it comes to
25:39
communication is being clear with your CEO if you're in idea
25:45
mode or like we're going to go execute this mode because a lot
25:50
of our confusion would come in where he would bring me an idea
25:54
and be like, so I'm thinking about making this page on the
25:57
website for an example. And then I'd be like, OK, yeah,
26:01
done. And then I'd send him the link
26:02
30 minutes later and he's like, well, that was just an idea.
26:05
Like, I don't know, like, you know, he's like, how did you do
26:08
that? And I was like, I don't know,
26:09
like here it is though. This is what you just said you
26:11
wanted. So it's like for me, what that
26:16
would create though, is that would create like a loop of just
26:19
feeling like, Oh my gosh, like I am always having to be on call.
26:23
Like I always have to be ready for that next text message.
26:25
Like I don't know when it's coming because we're two hours
26:27
apart. So it's like he's two hours
26:30
behind me. So like, I'm like snuggled up in
26:32
my jammies and then he's like, hey, this website page.
26:35
And I'm thinking it's an action versus an idea.
26:39
And so being really clear when it comes to that, I think would
26:42
have really supported both of us because I would do the same
26:45
thing to him and be like, hey, no, no, no, no, no.
26:48
And then he'd be like, you want me to go record how many videos
26:51
right now? And I'm like, no, not right now.
26:54
You can brush your hair. You're not existing hair.
26:57
So I feel like for me, that is key for sure.
27:01
It's like being very clear on what, as George says, like what
27:04
playing fields you're coming on for sure.
27:06
Yeah, well, I think that some people are naturally like I I
27:09
know both of us are very much this way.
27:11
Like we're very much like builders.
27:12
Like if someone sends us an idea like a kid, great.
27:14
Like here's all the pieces we need, here's the plan, here's
27:16
the timeline, here's a go wrong. We start to go into all the
27:18
pieces we need to create it. And I think entrepreneurs have a
27:22
tendency to do that, like they're constantly dreaming all
27:24
the time. And so because of that, it's
27:26
like vision, vision, vision all day long that you're talking
27:28
about. 98% of which never gets executed because it's all just
27:32
talking about ideas, which kind of like pulls the thread of
27:35
generating more. But I think for someone who is
27:38
an operator, which is really what to me, ACEO is like the
27:42
reason when I started to hear all the things, I was like, oh,
27:44
she's like, she's driving the ship.
27:47
Like she's literally operating the team, everything.
27:51
That to me was really what I saw CE OS to be, which is the fact
27:55
that I kind of defined a CEO as like the person who was driving
27:58
growth, who was managing team, who was overseeing the strategy.
28:02
And I'm basically partnering with the founder to be like,
28:05
hey, vision wise, what are you seeing?
28:07
Like give me your creative juices basically, and using
28:10
them, if I could is almost like a pawn or like a puppet to get
28:14
you where you needed to go. Because that person usually has
28:18
brought a CEO in because they don't want to think about all of
28:20
the structure and the team and all the pieces.
28:23
And you know, one of the things that I learned in a lot of, you
28:26
know, my conversations was really truly how much you hold
28:30
capacity for like clients, team, marketing, sales, like overall
28:35
everything, like every bucket of the business.
28:37
And so when you have someone like a personal brand, who's the
28:42
face, but yet you're the machine managing it all, how is that
28:48
behind the scenes when you're like, I'm doing team, I'm doing
28:50
all these things, but like the team may not necessarily even
28:52
have a relationship with the founder, even though he's the
28:55
face of the business. So like how does it feel for you
28:58
as like the lead of all of that to to manage it and hold
29:00
capacity for everything? On some days I'm like, let's go,
29:06
let's make it happen. Give me all the aulanis and
29:08
coffee like let's make it happen.
29:11
And then on other days I feel like I go right back into that
29:14
spot of like, who in the world am I to do all this?
29:20
And am I actually truly capable of doing all this and holding
29:25
all this? Because for me, I get
29:28
overwhelmed when all the vision ideas come through and like we
29:32
even work together with this in person in Montana.
29:35
When you came to the event and I was like, hey, here's my three
29:39
post it notes of every idea I've ever been given in the past
29:42
three months. Can you help me sort this out?
29:45
Like can you help me with this? And so, yeah, I think I've, I've
29:50
definitely float between the two.
29:52
Like I don't ever think I always have it all together.
29:54
And I also at in some days I'm like, OK, yeah, like I have
29:57
enough evidence that I've built up in my little sunshine folder
30:00
that like I can. Do this.
30:01
Yeah, Yeah. And I think on that note, I kind
30:04
of want to like almost switch gears because there's two
30:06
people. There's the person who's like, I
30:07
want to hire an Ashley. I love my business and I'm very
30:11
much a visionary and I loved I love to create with the big
30:13
ideas, but I'm not a born operator.
30:16
And then there's the other person who I have had a lot of
30:19
conversations with people who tell me that they love
30:22
entrepreneurship, but they don't love being the visionary.
30:25
Like they don't love being the face, they don't love being the
30:28
brand. They don't love certain aspects,
30:30
but they love entrepreneurship and building businesses.
30:33
So they're like, I would love to just be ACEO behind the scenes.
30:36
And then I'll have somebody else who could be the forefront and I
30:38
get to really lean into the area that I love.
30:41
And so if we're thinking about someone who kind of wants to be
30:44
an Ashley, where do we start when it comes to, I have a
30:49
business, I feel like I'd love to be the CEO of someone else's
30:52
business. If you were going to kind of
30:55
recommend something to them, where would you recommend in the
30:58
place of where to even start with me be exploring that?
31:02
So the fun part is, is that my process is not replicatable.
31:06
Like you can't do the exact thing, same things that I did in
31:08
order to be able to get there because I don't recommend it to
31:10
anybody. So if I were to take like any
31:15
human being and be like, OK, great, you're awesome on
31:17
entrepreneurship. Like where, where would I go?
31:20
First and foremost, I would definitely focus on a specialty.
31:24
Focus on what you're really good at and get yourself into other
31:27
people's businesses that are ones that you potentially would
31:31
want to work for in that capacity.
31:35
I feel like if I could go back and do something different, I
31:38
would have really worked on getting a lot more specialized
31:42
in like my marketing bucket as opposed to just like solely
31:46
focus on e-mail marketing because at that point I was like
31:48
e-mail marketing, social media. What is that?
31:50
So I wish I would have been specialized in like 1 of the
31:54
main categories, like, you know, operation, team marketing, and
31:58
then really just expanded and grown and soaked up as much as
32:02
possible in that one category. Because I feel like if you know
32:06
1, you can learn the other two. Like that's easy, right?
32:09
And so like for me, like I had very little team experience
32:14
besides, you know, being an assistant manager at a retail
32:17
shop, which is nothing fancy or crazy and definitely totally
32:21
different in person versus virtual.
32:24
But I would definitely say like pick your lane and specialize
32:28
and not get in other type, other people's businesses first and
32:31
foremost. And I would also play the long
32:34
game with them. Like I think that's the biggest
32:36
thing is that a lot of times like were, so I mean, at least
32:40
in my entrepreneurship journey, like there was a lot of jumping
32:42
ship within clients. And like we talk about client
32:44
retention and how important that is.
32:45
And I would really focus on finding your person and diving
32:49
all the way in and really just focusing on showing them and
32:54
supporting them in any possible way that you can to be like,
32:57
hey, I see you're struggling with this.
32:59
Can I just take it on for you? Like I'm happy to take it on and
33:02
just really focus on just deepening and deepening and
33:05
deepening that relationship and not being afraid to have the
33:09
conversation. Like for me, I didn't have to
33:11
have the conversation because I got a Slack DM.
33:13
But you know, I would say, you know, and my team members have
33:17
even done this to me and I have fully welcomed it where they're
33:19
like, hey, like I know that you're struggling with getting
33:22
this done on time because I know you're doing this, this and this
33:24
can't like I want to take it on for you.
33:26
Like could we potentially do that, you know, and talking
33:29
about what that could look like to expand and being open to
33:32
having those conversations. If you are the founder with your
33:34
team members of like, where do you really want to go?
33:37
Like what do you want to be doing in the next couple of
33:40
years? Like how can I support you?
33:42
Regardless, if you decide you're going to leave the company
33:45
tomorrow, I want to make sure that you felt like I supported
33:48
you to the fullest capacity that I could and giving you
33:52
everything that I know to be able to make you the best
33:54
entrepreneur, the best employee, whatever it is that you're going
33:57
to go do next. And like I, I love that you say
34:01
that even with the the aspect of skill sets, because I think that
34:04
a lot of people had the belief to be ACEO, you have to be
34:08
basically good at everything. You have to be good at, you have
34:10
to be good at OPS, you have to be good at sales, marketing,
34:12
like you have to know every department.
34:13
And what I'm hearing you say is like, it's really having a
34:15
mastery at one and an understanding of the others,
34:18
Correct. Yeah, Yep.
34:21
And with that on a more non strategic level.
34:25
So I'm thinking Ashley Hart traits that inner, inner work
34:32
traits that have to happen for someone to be ACEO.
34:37
When I think about in my mind and I even preparing for today,
34:40
I was trying to think about, OK, like what your day looks like
34:43
and all the things you must encounter and the problems you
34:46
solve and the conversations that you have.
34:49
Yes, there's this strategy portion of like, I know
34:51
marketing and I know sales and I I know all of these areas, but
34:54
there's also like the qualities. And I think about it almost to
34:56
your point earlier, like a partnership of like the
34:58
qualities you're looking for in another individual that will
35:02
complement what you value and what you care about.
35:05
And I'm wondering and and maybe this is connection with
35:07
obviously you guys and your kind of partnership in business.
35:10
But I'm also thinking for someone hiring, because I when
35:14
we're hiring, we don't necessarily just want to look at
35:16
what you know, but also who you are.
35:18
And so I guess my curiosity would be, who does someone need
35:22
to be in themselves trait wise, value wise, to really either
35:27
soar at being ACEO or for someone who's looking for that
35:30
individual, do you think? I would say #1 definitely having
35:36
extremely clear boundaries because the business will run
35:40
you to the ground if you don't. And I went through that process
35:43
of literally, I lived and breathed the business and there
35:46
was no room for anything else. And it definitely was like
35:50
taking a toll on like my mental and physical and all the other
35:53
health outside of just the business health where I was
35:55
like, I'm grinding, I'm doing the things.
35:58
And I was essentially people pleasing, creating codependency,
36:01
like the whole 9 yards because I didn't have strong boundaries
36:05
with when I checked my e-mail, how I was going to do this, when
36:09
I was going to be in circle, all of that.
36:12
So I would say #1 like you need to be really strong and knowing
36:15
what is your preferred methods of contact?
36:20
What are your preferred methods of being able to communicate?
36:24
What does good communication look like to you?
36:26
And just getting really clear on like what are your requirements
36:30
for the founder or for the founder, for the operator?
36:33
And just getting very clear on what that is outside of just
36:37
like don't screw me over. Give me a 30 day notice.
36:39
Like the little details that create the tension.
36:42
That's what I'm talking about getting super clear on.
36:44
Yeah. So I would say that I would say
36:47
the second thing would be resiliency is a huge thing.
36:53
I feel like you have to know and be prepared for the fires, but
36:56
you can't be in the fires. And another way to explain that
37:01
is like I will watch you go on the roller coaster.
37:04
Like you can go on the roller coaster.
37:05
You can do the loop de loop in the pole and the turn, but like
37:08
I don't have to go on the roller coaster with you.
37:11
And that takes a lot of discipline.
37:14
That also takes a lot of work emotionally to be able to
37:17
release and let somebody go, whether it's your client,
37:20
whether it's your founder, whether it's teammate.
37:22
For them to go on the roller coaster, make the mistake even
37:25
though you know it's coming, and then have them come back to me
37:28
and be like, yo, I made a mistake.
37:29
I'm like, yeah. How do you do that?
37:33
How do you how do you see them going and walking off a Cliff
37:39
and both you guys are emotionally in whatever
37:42
percentage invested in the business?
37:45
And how do you, I guess, you know, in a way for some reason
37:48
it makes me think about parenting.
37:49
Like you kind of can only coach so much to a level where it's
37:52
like they have to have their own experience.
37:54
Yeah. But did that ever get hard in
37:57
the sense of like, you want to just kind of be like, don't do
37:59
it, don't do it? Or do you kind of feel like from
38:02
the beginning you've always allowed that process of just
38:05
each of you having your own ways in which you discover and get
38:08
your clarity? So up until the beginning of
38:13
last year, I would constantly, in my opinion, save George.
38:19
Always. I would always save him
38:23
regardless of what bucket or container it was.
38:26
I was like, I got like when I say I got you, I got you.
38:30
And I lived and breathed by that to the point where it was at my
38:33
own expense, where I was having my own fires and I was letting
38:38
them burn so I could give him the water to take out his.
38:42
And that was on me 100%. Like no fault of his own.
38:46
Totally me. And I would say now I've come to
38:52
a point where I recognize that it wasn't my fire.
38:57
It was like my son's fire. And for me, it was definitely
39:04
coming back to my values of like, I talk so much about how
39:08
much that little boy means to me.
39:10
And at the same point, I'm putting my business partner
39:13
before my son. And that was an extreme huge
39:18
like alignment piece where I was like, oh, this is not an
39:21
alignment. Like I'm talking one side of my
39:23
mouth and then doing something completely different.
39:25
And like that doesn't work for me.
39:28
And so for me, it was looking at that and like looking at my son
39:32
and being like, I choose you every single day before
39:35
everything else. And it was me then intentionally
39:40
taking that action every single day of choosing him first before
39:44
anything or anybody else. Well, I so, I so resonate with
39:50
the idea of like, if you don't have boundaries around the
39:53
business, the business will crush you.
39:55
Because I think that with all the things that you manage as
40:00
ACEO, you've got team, you've got marketing, like you're the
40:04
quarterback of the entire thing. And I think it is different.
40:08
It's different than just being the head of a marketing
40:10
department, just being like you just have your small subsection
40:12
in those opportunities. Whereas in ACEO role, you're the
40:18
quarterback and you're responsible indirectly for all
40:21
the results and what is or is not happening and so.
40:25
Then you, though, also have this other partner who's kind of in
40:28
it with you, the founder, the visionary.
40:31
And so when things are working, I can imagine, you know, things
40:37
are flowing, they're going, you're like amazing.
40:39
Like we're crushing it, We're killing it.
40:41
But I feel like in hard times in a business, it must be difficult
40:45
to know how to navigate that because you're both in it and
40:49
there is division in some aspects, but you're also, like
40:52
you said, you're so emotionally invested of like we're in it
40:55
together, hell or high water, we're going to make it happen.
40:58
Say someone's in a situation where like I'm, I'm thinking
41:02
about business owners that I work with and I even see this
41:05
with not even CEO roles, but just like general team members,
41:07
they'll be OK. Like I delegated that.
41:08
That's her thing. This is my thing and that's it.
41:12
How do you guys navigate when one person may or may not be
41:16
doing the thing? And what I mean by that is like,
41:19
I have, you know, people that let's just say they have a coach
41:22
on their team and they're like, OK, great.
41:24
Like this coach is somebody who's taking care of the
41:27
clients. They're doing their thing.
41:28
And then the clients start to not get results or they're not
41:30
renewing. They're not referring people.
41:32
And they're like, you know, so and so needs to step it up.
41:35
But it's like at the end of the day, you're still in it together
41:37
in the sense of you're both coaching the same program.
41:40
Well, I guess my deep curiosity even for myself about having
41:44
ACEO because obviously I, I don't have one of my business
41:47
yet, but deep curiosity that I have is like, it's kind of like
41:51
a partnership, like a romantic relationship.
41:53
Like if you're in it together, it's like I pick up where you
41:56
slack and you pick up where I slack.
41:58
And, and that to me is how I envision it.
42:00
But in a way, when I started to think about even going into
42:02
today and prepping for today, I thought, you know, but where's
42:05
the accountability? Where is the in a business
42:08
sense? Where is this aspect of like,
42:10
no, no, that's yours. Like you handle that.
42:13
And so like even when you brought up boundaries is what
42:15
made me think of it again, like how do you navigate?
42:18
We're in it together. All in 100%.
42:20
I got you, you got me paired with, but you got your list and
42:25
I've got my list. How do you how do you guys
42:27
navigate? Or, and it maybe it's something
42:30
you're still in the work of like work in progress that which is
42:32
totally OK too. It's just it's like a curiosity
42:34
of of mine when I think about all the businesses that I work
42:37
with. Yeah.
42:38
OK. So I'm gonna give you the team
42:41
member answer and then I'm gonna give you the George answer
42:43
because they're different for me.
42:44
OK. So for the team member answer,
42:47
if I had a team member, which I've gone through for me, I much
42:51
prefer to waterfall feedback, like water drop before we get to
42:56
like the whole landing of like, where have you been in the past
42:59
three months? Like I will text you or I'll
43:02
like slack you at the three day mark and be like, Hey, you good.
43:04
And then if I don't hear like going that route or giving small
43:09
pieces of feedback before just diving in and being like, we're
43:12
having a 90 day review. I hope you're ready to get your
43:14
notebook. And so for me, I try to nip it
43:16
in the bud basically as soon as I spot it.
43:20
And so it's like, I think you've said it before, like if you see
43:22
it, you say it like just get it out, like just do the thing.
43:25
And I would if you. Think it, feel it, say it.
43:28
Which by the way, goes really well in business, but also very
43:30
well in just relationships, friendships, relationships,
43:32
anything. Yeah, yes.
43:33
So I usually, well, I wouldn't say usually I always model that
43:37
with my team. The only thing that I filter for
43:40
my team when it comes to communication is I make sure
43:43
that I am emotionally set, like emotionally grounded before I go
43:50
to them. Like I don't do emotional
43:51
reactivity with my team. And I've set that example of
43:54
like, listen, like if I'm in it and I'm like, what the heck, the
43:57
podcast didn't go out at 5:00 AM this morning and it's still
44:00
sitting in draft mode. What the heck?
44:02
Like I make sure that like emotionally I'm good before I go
44:06
and like message Delia and be like, hey, girl, like if
44:09
something go on with this, this is a simple cast like what
44:12
happened? I know you usually do it right.
44:15
And I think there's a difference between a team member who slips
44:19
up and makes a mistake because they're human and somebody who
44:22
is like a recurring offender, right?
44:25
It's like if my son goes through the process of marking with a
44:29
Sharpie on the wall once, I'm going to be like, hey, bud,
44:31
like, let's not. But if he's doing it like every
44:34
three days and I'm constantly like, happy to go to the store
44:37
to buy Magic erasers, like we got a problem.
44:39
Like we're going to talk about like we're sitting down.
44:42
Yeah. So I think there's a difference
44:43
there for George. Originally, the To Do List
44:47
became, oh, you haven't done it. So let me just reassign them to
44:52
Ashley. I'll do that.
44:54
It's fine. And like it would come to the
44:56
point where I was just like trying to figure out how to
44:58
manipulate videos. So I didn't actually meet him.
45:01
I was like, is AI up up to speed yet?
45:03
Because like, if we can, like we're going to do that, you
45:06
know? And then now I have come to the
45:11
point where I let him live in his world of his choices because
45:18
I decide every single day that I'm going to show up for this
45:20
business, that I'm going to put my 110% in and do the things
45:24
that I promised I was going to do.
45:26
And it's not my job to enroll him into that same vision.
45:29
He has to decide that for himself.
45:31
And I'm not saying or implying like I want to be clear that
45:34
he's not because that would be speaking for him and I do
45:37
believe that he is. But in general, for having this
45:40
conversation around, like if he wasn't doing the things, I would
45:44
let him live in it. And be like and vice versa.
45:47
Maybe in the sense? Of 100% you would let me live in
45:49
my choices too, yeah. Maybe and maybe him for you too,
45:52
right. And you know, you mentioned the
45:55
emotional regulation piece, which I just wanted to go back
45:57
to because I always associate CEO with pressure.
46:02
That's it's the only word that comes to mind is like pressure
46:05
structure operating. Like it's just like it really is
46:09
like the just I just see you holding capacity for so much.
46:13
And I'm thinking again, back to that, like if you're hiring
46:16
somebody or if you're trying to be the Ashley and someone's team
46:20
and be the CEO, was emotional regulation something that you
46:24
knew from the get go in a sense of like was that something you
46:27
came in as a tool in your toolbox with or was that
46:30
something you kind of discovered the importance of through this
46:34
pressure? I definitely discovered it
46:37
through this pressure 100% through my entrepreneurship
46:41
career, I would say. I definitely did know that it
46:45
was something I needed to work on.
46:46
Like I would accidentally send an e-mail out an hour before it
46:49
was supposed to for a client. And then I would go and cry
46:52
about it for three hours because I was so disappointed in myself
46:55
and the client was so disappointed.
46:57
And I'd create these like rumination stories of like how
47:00
I'm not good enough and give me evidence for that.
47:03
And so that was a tool that George taught me in this role of
47:08
like, hey girl, like. No.
47:10
Like go cry about it for 20 minutes and then you're done.
47:12
Like, move on. Like it's not a big deal.
47:15
It's literally an e-mail. And the saying that always comes
47:18
up for me is like, we're not saving babies.
47:20
Like it's OK. Like, this is my, it's fine.
47:23
Like we can send out another e-mail.
47:25
Yes. And so, yeah, it's something
47:28
that I have had to diligently and intentionally work on
47:33
because I still, I still struggle with it to this day
47:36
where I'll like be in it and then I'll go to send a message.
47:39
I'll be like, oh, no, I did not. No, no, no, no.
47:42
That's me enrolling somebody else in my drama and story,
47:44
which does not need to exist for them.
47:46
Like they don't need to know all of my thoughts and feelings
47:50
about how our team isn't Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah.
47:51
When it's a reality, it's just a made of story.
47:54
Nobody. I think sometimes when we lack,
47:57
first of all, lack awareness of it, when you don't even know
48:00
that this is something that you're doing, you're not paying
48:02
attention to it. And so you just kind of like
48:03
blah on a just word vomit on everybody around you by
48:06
accident. And I definitely myself, even I
48:09
would say have been and at times I'm guilty of this even now.
48:12
I realize, though, like the implication on the rest of the
48:16
team members when doing your quote UN quote venting because
48:20
when I would vent and be in these moments, like and like
48:24
even whether it's for you with the team members that obviously
48:27
you manage and you lead, or if it's with you in partnership
48:30
with George, the founder. Like I think when we're in these
48:33
dynamics, something about being in it with someone makes it feel
48:37
less scary or something. Like when I just get to be like,
48:40
I'm overwhelmed and like, we need to do this and this has to
48:43
happen, this deadline, we're behind the following.
48:44
Like when I just get to like blah to somebody else, it's
48:47
somehow makes me feel so much less alone in it.
48:51
Which? Is the positive for me, but what
48:54
I found was when I would do that and I would feel so much lighter
48:57
afterwards because I shared it great.
49:00
Like everything is off my chest. I just dumped a like 10 LB load
49:05
of intensity on someone else's plate and I signed off and I
49:09
feel better And now I've passed the burden of like, here's all
49:13
of the things that we're navigating.
49:14
But anyways, I feel better. Thanks though.
49:17
And I didn't realize I thought it was like we're all in it
49:19
together. So we're all going to share it.
49:21
And you know, kind of like we're saying earlier with the think
49:24
it, feel it, say it. I think that's the one area
49:27
though, in business where like, you should speak if something
49:30
that someone's doing is an, an impact on the business.
49:34
But I don't always necessarily think that as the CEO, you have
49:38
to share all the burdens of what you're navigating all the time,
49:42
everywhere, in every moment. Because sometimes the way that
49:46
that player, the team member, the other individual could
49:49
support you is not by being completely impacted by all the
49:53
information, but just like, hey, here's how you could be an asset
49:57
to help me solve this thing. Can you help me with that?
49:59
Correct. I'm curious for you, did you, do
50:02
you guys navigate that of kind of like, do you feel like maybe
50:06
the being in it together sometimes gets blurry around the
50:08
fact that like we're oversharing, you know, struggles
50:11
to the point where it's making it harder for certain people to
50:14
operate? Because I would definitely would
50:15
say that I'm guilty of that. 100 percent, 100%, I would say that,
50:19
yeah, our lines were really blurry until like, the beginning
50:23
of last year for sure, where it was just constant, like on both
50:27
sides of just like word vomit this, word vomit that.
50:31
And then like, we would just be like, so enrolled into each
50:33
other's stories of like, well, this is how it's gonna be.
50:35
Like, this is how it is. And yeah, I fully agree with
50:39
you. Like I think that I think
50:41
there's a time and a place, but then there's also like very much
50:44
so like a container that you can put yourself in of like, hey,
50:47
just so you know, like this voice note is me venting.
50:50
You don't have to listen to it, you.
50:51
Don't have to be part of it. I'm going to send you a separate
50:54
voice note with the actual question I have or the action
50:56
item that like I'm thinking through that I could use your
50:59
support with. And so I feel like, yeah, just
51:02
buffering that or just creating that container of like, hey,
51:05
this is me, I'm getting it off my chest.
51:06
But you don't have to listen to it.
51:08
Listen to this part instead. I think then creates that it's
51:11
like if they're in a good space and they can support you and
51:14
want to listen to it, they can. But you're also giving them a
51:17
permission slip of like, if they don't feel like they can hold it
51:20
or have the capacity to hold it, they can just go to the action
51:23
item and you guys can continue to make momentum and progress.
51:25
Yeah. Well, I think that's The thing
51:27
is like the momentum and progress when there's two of you
51:30
in it, I feel like the boundary, the boundaries aspect is such a
51:34
big word coming through for me because I think it's boundaries
51:36
in your rules, boundaries and communication boundaries and
51:39
expectations as well. So like I'm thinking, you know,
51:42
for myself, for example, I don't have kids yet and so I might
51:46
work till to your point 10:00 at night, but yet someone else
51:49
might be like, hey, like I'm done at 3 for pick up and like
51:51
after that I'm not back online till the next day.
51:53
So like I think boundaries from what I'm hearing are really like
51:56
probably the biggest muscle to flex skill set to have and
52:01
practice that basically needs to be integrated absolutely
52:04
everywhere for like real success with a CEO and a founder
52:08
partnership. 100% and especially the expectation process, because
52:13
when I started, I was like, hey, OK, I'm ready for my job
52:16
description, give me the task list, tell me what I'm doing.
52:19
And he's like, yeah, that doesn't exist.
52:20
You have to make it your own. I was like, cool, again, I don't
52:25
know how to do that. And so it's like I was talking
52:29
to my friend the other day about it, and I was like, that's the
52:31
thing. Like I struggle with being able
52:34
to even, like, encapsulate everything that I do because I
52:38
just do it. Like, I just get it done, you
52:40
know, whatever, it comes my way, I'm like, done, yeah, easy.
52:42
I'll figure it out. You know, that's what YouTube's
52:44
for. Yeah.
52:45
And so it's like, yeah, I definitely do feel that.
52:48
What are some of those things, if someone's like, OK, like what
52:50
could that look like? Like if you're thinking about
52:52
this week or last week, like what are some of the things or
52:55
areas or projects that you work on as a CEO?
52:59
Oh, I have a list. I have a list.
53:02
I love you. Of course you do.
53:05
OK, so some of the main areas that with it I work in.
53:10
So OK, so like team pretty easy, right?
53:13
So I manage the entire team. I have three team members, a
53:16
graphic designer, a video designer or like a video editor
53:21
and then a podcast editor who also double S with helping me
53:24
with some of the social content of like scheduling.
53:26
So like administrative vibes. So I handle the entire team, all
53:30
their pay expectations, everything.
53:32
So if something goes wrong within like any of the work they
53:35
do, I take ownership over that and I correct it.
53:39
Pretty simple. And then I also handle
53:42
everything when it comes to like the marketing side.
53:44
So that's like all of the e-mail marketing campaigns funnels.
53:47
That also includes a lot of the social media content.
53:50
Like I'm the person who creates the entire calendar, the person
53:53
who like delegates it all out, plans it all out when it comes
53:56
to like our promotion, social media content and then also
53:59
pairing like our assets that we've then created to that.
54:03
And then using George's feedback of the overarching vision to be
54:07
able to then mold it and bring that to life.
54:10
And then also technically stories on like Monday and
54:13
Friday. Let's see, I do all the
54:15
administrative minus finances. I do like all the e-mail
54:20
customer support. I'm the main person for like our
54:22
circle community support. I manage all of that.
54:25
I am also generally the primary contact for all of our
54:29
one-on-one clients when it comes to like billing, sales questions
54:32
and things like that. And then I also do just like
54:35
normal admin work. So it's like the podcast, every,
54:39
everything when it comes to that, like the managing of the
54:41
guests, making sure all of that's going flow.
54:43
I mean basically all. I mean all of that.
54:46
Everything. Anything else?
54:51
I mean, I handle all the billing for like all the recurring.
54:55
I collect the feedback, I manage the feedback, I do checking
54:57
calls, I do ask the operation calls, I do all the replays.
55:03
I mean like. Not very busy, basically is what
55:05
you're. Saying we're not busy over here.
55:07
We're not busy. And that's The thing is that
55:10
it's so hard because it's like. I get the job description now
55:14
because imagine, imagine, apply, imagine.
55:17
I like I'm fully like I get the job description because imagine
55:20
for that job, look at the job description and be like you do
55:22
marketing, you do social, you do podcasts, you do admit, you do
55:25
clients, you do offer development, you do emails, you
55:28
do OPS, you do systems, you do events and you're like.
55:31
Yeah, I didn't even touch on events.
55:33
Yeah, that too. Yeah, she also, you guys
55:36
coordinates plans and is like the complete mastermind behind
55:40
all the events, like from front to back.
55:42
So yeah, it's a it's a lot. It's a lot.
55:45
And that leads me to a question that someone did ask me knowing
55:49
that I was going to be recording this today.
55:52
How stage wise do you think a business should be?
55:55
Like what stage should a business be at for someone to
55:58
maybe be considering? Cuz I think a big misconception
56:01
in my opinion that I hear is that people believe in order to
56:04
hire ACEO, you have to be this like 6 million $7,000,000
56:10
company. And yes, obviously big multi
56:12
$1,000,000 businesses still do hire CE OS obviously because
56:17
they get to a place where again, they need to delegate and they
56:19
need other people. But I'm curious, do you feel
56:22
that there really is a specific stage only and above that
56:26
someone can hire CEO or like where do you think or maybe an
56:30
assessment you might consider of when is the right time for
56:34
someone to consider hiring ACEO for their business?
56:38
So depending actually, I'll say depending, I would say at every
56:43
stage, you can always use a good operator to boss you around,
56:47
especially as a founder. 100% because they bring
56:50
accountability, they create that structure and they also create
56:54
that accountability and structure that allows you to
56:56
feel safe and being able to execute the vision because you
56:59
have somebody who's kind of like a plus proof Reddit and was
57:02
like, yeah, that go to that. And so even if they're not doing
57:07
the things and they just kind of see it and they're kind of like
57:10
in a more consulting role versus like the actual like executor
57:13
role, that can still be supportive. 100% I would say
57:18
that for me, like I would probably would want somebody
57:22
who's at least a mid, like 6 figures and above, like mid,
57:27
like 6 mid up to seven, like in that range.
57:30
The reason why I say that specifically is because when you
57:33
bring somebody else into your chaos, it's just a bigger
57:37
chaotic mess, right? It's like if you bring somebody
57:40
into the fire with you, like they're going to catch on fire
57:43
as well. And so I would never hire
57:46
somebody out of desperation. I would hire people out of you
57:51
knowing, hey, this is exactly where you can come in.
57:55
Like I've made sure that like everything is laid out for you.
57:57
Like we're going to waterfall the tasks for you.
57:59
We're going to drop them one by one.
58:01
It's not going to be like any impact on your nervous system.
58:04
Like there's no emergencies here.
58:06
And like they come in feeling all of your support and all of
58:10
your attention because you have some of those baseline pieces.
58:13
Because if you're bringing in somebody to have all the ideas,
58:17
you're just having somebody else proofread your vision, right?
58:20
And it's like, no, like this is your vision.
58:21
I'm just here to help you take care of it, like to actually
58:24
execute it. I love that.
58:25
Never hire a CEO out of desperation, only hire out of
58:28
like elevation really. Yes.
58:31
Also side note, if you guys listen to my elevation content
58:34
model, Ashley was the one who named that on one of the
58:36
previous episodes. So just have to give credit
58:38
where credit is due. Elevation, it just popped into
58:40
my brain. I love that idea of hire a CEO
58:43
not at a desperation, but out of elevation, elevating the
58:46
business to the next level. And just as a a piggyback to
58:50
that, what might someone see happening in their business?
58:54
IE like if you're if you can wave a magic wand and go into a
58:59
business as ACEO and it be at a certain place when you got
59:02
there, what does that look like? Because I love the idea of not
59:07
having it be in a state of chaos, not having it be in fires
59:10
everywhere and expecting like this person to be like your
59:13
savior who comes in and fixes it.
59:16
But if someone was going to have you come into the business and
59:20
you were going to partner with the business, what would be kind
59:23
of like things that you might as Aceo be looking for to say, OK,
59:27
like this feels like it's like a solid ground to land.
59:29
Yeah. OK.
59:30
So I would say the first one would be a solid like main
59:35
signature offer that is number 1.
59:37
You could be in a place where you're at capacity with that
59:40
signature offer and wanting to expand and be like, hey, I do
59:44
one-on-one coaching. I now want to do group coaching.
59:46
Like I'm going to bring you in to help me with the group
59:48
coaching aspect. Again, thinking about expansion.
59:51
Same thing with like marketing, right?
59:53
Like you have one primary platform that you're like doing
59:55
the things on, you're crushing at it.
59:57
Now you either want to increase the frequency of the amount of
59:59
content you want to create or you're wanting to expand to
1:00:02
another platform. And so for me, it would come
1:00:05
from a place of like we have like solid income that's coming
1:00:09
in through. We have a solid track record of
1:00:11
being able to hold and sustain team members and retain them.
1:00:16
And we can also like comfortably say that like, this is working
1:00:21
and now we're just tweaking, continually testing.
1:00:23
And I think the other part of that is like really having a
1:00:26
hunger for growth and being able to have the hard conversations
1:00:30
of like, just because it worked previously doesn't mean it's
1:00:32
always going to work. The worst thing that I could
1:00:35
ever put myself into is into a business that is so married to
1:00:39
the idea of how they do business that they're not willing to
1:00:42
actually hear or understand my point of view.
1:00:46
That make that makes sense. That person is like here's my
1:00:49
vision, I'm giving it and passing it off to you versus I
1:00:53
get half the piece of paper, you get the other half and like
1:00:55
let's create a Co vision together.
1:00:57
Exactly yeah, yes, I love that so good.
1:01:01
OK, someone's listening and they're like, OK, I'm inspired.
1:01:04
I'm either thinking about becoming ACEO or I'm really
1:01:07
highly considering hiring one for my business.
1:01:10
If you were to give one nugget, all the entrepreneurs that are
1:01:13
listening right now when it comes to either being a better
1:01:16
operator, hiring an operator, if you were to give them like 1
1:01:19
nugget, what would that be? 1 nugget in any bucket?
1:01:25
Because I know that you work with all kinds of different
1:01:29
businesses, all kinds of different stages and you have
1:01:32
been in so many businesses. And so I would love just of all
1:01:35
the Ashley wisdom, a nugget of something that you know, would
1:01:39
really help founder who's listening right now.
1:01:43
I would say the biggest thing that comes to mind for me is
1:01:47
like, this is just a season. And I think in every single part
1:01:52
of my entrepreneurship career, I've gotten so caught up in the
1:01:56
fact that like, this is it. This is how it's always going to
1:01:58
be. Whether it be the fact that I
1:02:00
was working from 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM, the days that I was just
1:02:04
like, I don't know when my next, like, money is going to come to
1:02:06
pay my electric bill. And like, just thinking through
1:02:10
the whole process, I, I would say, yeah, just be open.
1:02:16
Like be so open to what the possibility could be.
1:02:19
Be open to the things that land in front of you.
1:02:22
Because I could not imagine my life if I had said no or been
1:02:26
like, no, I'm done. Like, I'm out.
1:02:28
Like, that scares me too much, you know, Like, why is he asking
1:02:32
me this? Yeah.
1:02:34
Yeah. Just be open.
1:02:36
Just be open to the journey. And don't get so attached to the
1:02:40
post it notes. I love that, especially in a
1:02:43
time where so many people 2025 have created vision boards and
1:02:47
ideas of like, it has to look like this bucket, that bucket.
1:02:50
And I think like, I, to me at least, a common theme that I see
1:02:53
all the time with entrepreneurs is like, it was never
1:02:55
intentional. Like it all just happened by
1:02:57
accident for most people. Some people, yes, we're like,
1:03:00
since they were like 7, knew they wanted to be a business.
1:03:02
Owner. There's a few.
1:03:03
There's a few of those. Oddballs.
1:03:04
But like for most people in entrepreneurship or in any
1:03:08
aspect of being connected to a company, never really saw it
1:03:11
being the thing that they always wanted to do.
1:03:14
And yet the opportunity was right there in front of them.
1:03:16
And I love the feedback of the season because I, I also, my
1:03:20
brain instantly, as you said, that went to the other side,
1:03:23
which was also recognizing that if you're having a good season,
1:03:25
good seasons also, just like bad seasons come to an end and the
1:03:29
light is at the end of the tunnel.
1:03:31
There's also good seasons where I think entrepreneurs get so
1:03:35
invested and like what's working?
1:03:37
Like to your point, you get super emotionally connected to
1:03:39
what's working right now, the way you've always done things,
1:03:42
the offers you've always sold, the way you've always marketed.
1:03:45
And then things change and you're like, no, no, no, no, no,
1:03:47
this is not happening right now when it gets really uncomfy.
1:03:50
And I think that's also something that at least just
1:03:52
resonates for me when it comes to season is, is remembering
1:03:55
that like tough seasons are followed by good ones, but good
1:03:58
ones also don't mean that the tough one is not somewhere
1:04:01
around the corner at some point. Yeah, it's really about
1:04:04
unattachment, right? And I think that's also like a
1:04:07
huge part of this conversation as well, too, is like just
1:04:10
becoming unattached to the way that you do business and how you
1:04:12
show up. And I think unattachment and
1:04:15
boundaries are the same thing because it's like, you can be
1:04:19
unattached to the outcome and how we're going to make it there
1:04:21
and still hold your boundaries and be like, OK, but like in
1:04:24
this rectangle, we're going to do this right?
1:04:28
And so, yeah, just being unattached to, you know, the
1:04:31
things that are happening, the things that are coming your way,
1:04:33
the conversations clients are having with you, just being
1:04:35
like, OK, yeah, 100%. Like I see how you feel that way
1:04:38
and like let's work together to find a solution.
1:04:40
Yeah, I love it. So good, Ashley, So good.
1:04:43
OK. Well, obviously as you guys are
1:04:45
listening, that's why I was so excited to have her on because
1:04:48
she just knows so much. And I hope this was inspiring
1:04:50
for any of you who are either thinking about hiring ACEO,
1:04:53
maybe you want to be the Ashley in another business.
1:04:56
And so I hope today gave you a little bit of a road map of
1:04:58
things to consider. Ashley, thank you so, so much
1:05:00
for coming on. Today was so good.
1:05:02
OK, my honor. I have notes, I have notes.
1:05:05
I don't have ACEO and so I was like, I am the I either can be a
1:05:09
better one or also gives me things to consider when it comes
1:05:11
to hiring 1. So today was epic.
1:05:13
Thank you and as always you guys, we will see you in next
1:05:16
week's episode. And if you guys do have any
1:05:17
questions, feel free to shoot Ashley message her socials will
1:05:20
be linked below. Obviously, as you guys know, I
1:05:22
always love hearing from you any takeaways that you have of
1:05:25
episodes like today. And, as always, stay ambitious.