Latest / The Alerting Authority / From Disney to Disaster Response | The Story of Eddie Bertola

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From Disney to Disaster Response | The Story of Eddie Bertola · The Alerting Authority

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we welcome you to another episode of the Alerting Authority.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: And as always, we encourage you to subscribe, follow, listen, and most importantly, participate in these podcasts.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: We want your questions, concerns, ideas, problems, pain points, and success stories so we as alerting authorities can better do our jobs and make our communities safer.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: And today's sponsor is the Warn Room.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you have 360 characters to save a life, are you ready?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Jeanette Sutton, and at the Warn Room, we turn disaster science into life-saving action.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: If your agency is struggling to craft the perfect alert, we're here to help you get it right the first time.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: We offer specialized warning boot camps, coming up again in July, to sharpen your team's skills, expert consulting for crisis message development, and access to our warning lexicon, a plug-and-play library of evidence-based templates for nearly 50 different hazards.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Stop guessing and start alerting with confidence.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Visit thewarnroom.com to book a training and explore our message libraries.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: The Warn Room provides expertly crafted alerts for a safer world.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, today we have a special guest.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's a guest, it's a day Eddie Bertola is in the hot seat.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: We get to interview a lot of really amazing people.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't frequently get to talk about who we are and what we bring to the conversation.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: You may have recently heard Eddie interview me.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so today I get to return the favor and put him in the hot seat and ask him about his experience becoming an authority on alerts and warnings.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so are you ready to go?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Which which leads to the fact, folks, if you're listening, always be the first one interviewed.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to be in my position because now she can she knows what I did to her and she's like, well, fine, anything is available now.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I I had that planned before you interviewed me, so you so it's all right.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, go for it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: I am I'm ready.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so for anyone who listens to us regularly, you know that we do play a little bit.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: So um these first sets of questions are kind of playful.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Eddie, you frequently have a Coke product that you are drinking.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a favorite Coke and why is it cherry vanilla?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it cherry vanilla?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I've say cherry vanilla, I I don't know if I've ever had that.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I've had a cherry vanilla Coke.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is that to your part of the United States or maybe I don't know.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it used to be that you could get it as cherry vanilla just as a flavor, but more recently I think that they call it like cherry vanilla float or something like a cherry coke with a vanilla ice cream on top.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's how they're marketing it now.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: How long is that?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, for years.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it whenever I traveled through the Chicago airport, I would go to their little machine that vends all the different Coke products, and I would always choose cherry vanilla.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is that linked to like some childhood memory or anything?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, but you're in the hot seat.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: What's your go-to?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: You like what I'm doing right there?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I just tell you, I I do like Coca-Cola.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I do.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And there's just something I have it's almost like one of those Coke commercials.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: After a hard day or anything else, bottled Coke is my absolute favorite go-to.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's expensive, and so the canned works just great.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: But no, but sometimes having it, I'm also one that I nurse my drinks.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it was IAEM, and and I I don't just nurse to be good.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I really I probably have an issue with it because I'll I'll get a bottled Coke or I'll get something, and it can last me the entire day and into the next day.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not that I can I'll I'll guzzle the whole thing down.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just little sips are just nice.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you when you have your bottled Coke, is it like an American Coke or a Mexican Coke or Coke original or Echo in Mexico?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yes.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely going for that pure cane sugar.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I did live in the Dominican Republic for a few years, and I got very used to bottled Coke with real sugar, and it's amazing.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And do you have like a Coke vending machine at your house?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I do not.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: That would be crazy.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I do have a fridge back in my back area that um is stocked, though.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: It does have I won't even go into all of it, but I will say a Coke product that I that I do like that I don't mention is um Fanta.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I am a Fanta pineapple or Fanta pina, and again, that's for my time in the Caribbean.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that flavor, Fanta pineapple.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if I'm grumpy, which I can be, instead of a Snickers, sometimes my kids will just be like, here you go.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: You can have one of these.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Snickers.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And do you eat your Snickers with the Coke?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, it's not even the Snickers.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say it's like a Snickers, where it's that you're grumpy and they hand you a Snickers.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: My kids will be like, You're grumpy, you know, here.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're gonna be like, here you go.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Umopen still, and we're not sponsored by them, so I don't know if we have to cover it up, but all right.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I visited the Coke Museum recently, and it was really interesting, and I knew that I went there because you told me about it, and it is truly an overwhelming experience of a lot of sugar all at once.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, moving on.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: When you graduated from high school, what were you best known for among your high school friends and teachers?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if you had peaked then, what would you be doing now?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: I feel bad saying what was in my yearbook because it turned out not to be a positive thing.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I liked talking, I liked communication.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you know how it's like voted to be the next?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's all those.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was this is so bad.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was voted to be the next Matt Lauer.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: But from when he was good, not from when he had his issues.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um right, because he, you know, in and he had his issues, but it it was essentially because you know he was a news anchor and and doing that.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that was really fun, and so I was voted to be the next Matt Lauer.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and yeah, thankfully, uh I did not go that direction.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you had peaked in high school, what would you be doing right now?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if I had peaked, I probably would have been in some type of uh journalism or politics or or things of that nature.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um which again I'm grateful I I didn't.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um but that that's where a lot of my thoughts and ideas were going at the time.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I happen to know that you are a true Disney fan.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I looked it up.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's called a Disney adult.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Some call it a Dis nerd, and others call it a Disney file.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: So can you please tell us how did you become a Disney adult and who is your favorite character and why?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what you're talking about, as I look around my office and you guys can't see everything in here, and maybe we'll do a different show on that.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I gotta I have to say, part of it, it happened.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we grew up, I grew up in California, we've been a few times as a family.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but um I heard someone who I really respect say that when you pick up a stick, it needs to be balanced and you need to pick up both ends.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you pick it up in the middle, and and that's just the best way to do it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And when I jumped into law enforcement and my career and everything else, which I've been really happy with, I have to find a balance.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I deal with a lot of some of the worst situations that exist.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and it what have how I've explained it to my kids and and everyone else is I have to balance that with a lot of other good.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and there there is faith, there is religion, and I'm not putting that in front of Disney or putting Disney in front of that.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying there's there's some levity and it's fun.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have researched a lot about Walt Disney and his creativity and how his brother Roy was you know the backup for the business and actually was a wonderful um individual as well.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I I like that stuff.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love creating.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I am an imagineer at heart because I will do that with my kids.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: We'll come up with different concepts and have some fun.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: My favorite character is Mickey Mouse.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: All right, because I know you have a Pinocchio on your shelf.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I do have a Pinocchio on my shelf, and that actually came from my grandmother who got it when she was a child.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something that was always in you guys can maybe relate.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Grandma and grandpa have a case of their special toys or things that you're not allowed to touch, but you can look at.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the one that um when she passed away, she gave to me.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I have it here on my shelf.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and when you go to Disneyland, do you wear mouse ears?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I generally don't wear mouse ears.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not like I don't I I'm not into LARPing, right?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Live action roleplay, LARPing, right?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and that's where you've like done you there are people that do that.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I will go and I will wear my lanyard and I will.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you have it handy.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh good.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I mean I have like a bunch of Disney pins and things and that that I would put on or wear on a lanyard.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I enjoy the the pin trading or different things, but I'm not I'm an enthusiast, but I'm not I'm not crazy, I guess.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to where I won't cut in front of a child so they can have an experience, you know.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: I but I know adults that are like, it's it's so much about me.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um But I enjoy escaping to to a place where I can really let my guard down, and there's very few places where I feel I can let it down.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's one.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: It just happens to be like the most expensive place on earth to do it.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, Disney, if you're listening, I'll take a free pass and then it'll work.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you showed us some decor on the wall behind you.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just continue with that.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: What else are we seeing when the alerting authority goes live?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, um, you're seeing a few things um from when I was in the Dominican Republic, there's the Dominican Republic.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I bought that.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: That was from it was actually a school that was run by some nuns up there, and they were just an amazing, it was an amazing organization.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Great, great sisters that did that, and so I I purchased that there.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's some decor for law enforcement, you know, the the blue line.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um the frame above me, that's actually it's a Senate resolution of Distinguished Service from the state of California that I did receive that I'm very proud of for the work that I did for them.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's some little stuff, but then this hatchet, wooden hatchet, was a gift from the governor and government of America and Samoa for my work in child abduction recovery and teaching.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I got to spend some time there, and I got to train individuals on that island, and and I mean, it's just it was a wonderful experience.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we again we deal with some of the hardest things, and so they awarded me that, and it's essentially um, you know, they they make you a warrior for Saoamoa.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Samoa it just to protect the children, like it was a really, really special, and so I have it up because it it does remind me of why we're doing what we're doing.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I notice also that you have some challenge coins that you've been collecting.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a couple, I've got a couple challenge coins.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I pick them up, but there's there are a ton.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: I will try to go this way.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I probably have I don't know, 60 or more.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And again, uh people who are listening probably have like 200.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't just go out and buy them.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: The only ones that I get are the ones that I'll exchange for.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um because they they just mean more than just like going and purchasing, hey, I bought a bunch.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can tell you pretty much where each one comes from and an experience with that organization.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's great.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um going back a little bit.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Go wherever you want.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: This is your time.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Going to Disneyland with your family.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: What was it like to grow up in a family of sisters?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Of all sisters.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um what did you learn about yourself as the only male in a female-dominated household?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thankfully my dad was there, but I I had four sisters and my mom, so I had five moms.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's essentially what it was.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I knew that I I had out of the five girls, there were at least eight opinions, you know, and mine did not really matter, is what it was.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: I but it but it was honestly, it was great.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still very close to all of them.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And uh again, I I live close to all of them now.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: We've as adults, we've all kind of moved to the same general area, and and it's been wonderful.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like I we really do care about each other.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I am the only boy, and it is evident.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um but no, it's it was it's been great, and so I will say a fun Disney tradition that I still do with my kids is the first attraction that that we did growing up is the one that we still do.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever I go to any Disney park, we go to Pirates of the Caribbean and do that one, and then we will watch a flag ceremony and see great moments with Mr.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Lincoln.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Where were you in the birth order of sisters?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: I am second to youngest.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the non-special place.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not the oldest, I'm not the middle child, I'm not the baby, I'm just the the only boy.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think I think some of us benefit from that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, I it's it was a great way to grow up.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I really I enjoyed it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so as a hostage negotiator, what is one psychological tactic that you bring to your daily interactions?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would say it's active listening.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And there there is a big difference between listening and active listening.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, active listening, when it's done right, can actually catch people off guard because we're not used to somebody consuming information that we're saying and repeating it in a way where we have to then stop and be like, wow, you know, they're listening.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially if we can um use some of the skills in active listening to kind of slow them down and help them think through what it is that they're they're saying.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's funny, as you go into crisis or hostage negotiations, people think it's a lot of talking.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: The vast majority is listening, but it's listening in a way that the person feels understood.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to agree.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: I have talked with individuals that literally have guns to their head or to the head of someone else.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't agree with anything they're saying, but I want them to feel that they're being understood, and so um that that's a big piece of it, and it works really well.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and honestly, it's it's just a good thing to do.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: They do tell you in school when you're going through it, and there's different, there's advanced training, there's all these things, that don't just go and try to use it on your spouse, okay?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because you will you'll get in trouble.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: They will realize again that you're using a tactic on them.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's but it's very powerful.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like turning the questioning around and not answering questions.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: I Jeanette, what are you talking about?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't I don't know what you're saying.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh right.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's yeah, it's helping someone in that in that type of environment.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have one more fun question.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Go for it.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: All right, because we had a podcast that included animals, so people who watch that know that you have goats.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you will soon be adding chickens to your farm.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, my question: have you thought about renting out your goats for weed control as a side gig?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I need them to finish eating the weeds at my house first.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we only have six, and but there are companies that do that.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I have teased that I'm like, hey, this is a great way to do it.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't have the space for you know 60 goats or anything like that.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if have you ever seen those videos of the weed control?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I didn't realize they had like 60 goats that were going up.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what they'll do is they will basically set up a perimeter around if you have fencing grate, they release a ton of goats into the area, and like 24 hours or 48 hours later, they bring them all back.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And your area is just it has been consumed.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so right now we have six, and they are super playful, great goats, and probably spoiled too much.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to give them less of the treat so they eat more of the grass.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, who wouldn't want ice cream versus you know broccoli?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's but we're working on it.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I've it's been fun, and we have people that have asked actually to say, hey, you know, you got goats, we got weeds.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I I still have weeds, so they gotta finish mine before they go anywhere else.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you decide to add sheep to your flock, I've learned that sometimes people will take their sheep to do the weed control, and then they have a sheep over.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, look at that.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Nice pun.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's very good.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So you could you could rent out your goats and your sheep for a sheepover.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have a sister who has a bunch of little sheep and lambs and everything else.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And goats for me, and again, I am not a farmer.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I am not I uh we are I'm I'm learning this space, right?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's been a blast.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Goats are pretty hardy and they they're they're doing great.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we we have fun.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And for those that didn't watch the episode, that is exactly how it is with goats.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's nothing I could have done different.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: They were quite active and very engaged in the whole filming process and stayed in the frame the whole time.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think they were sitting behind you just eating and watching you, knocking the camera down.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: They were doing a whole bunch of stuff.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're great.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all right.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's move on to to some more serious questions.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, did you did you always want to be in law enforcement?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And how did how did you get into that space?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up around law enforcement my entire life.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: My father um retired from the California Highway Patrol, and I mean my my entire life, he was in law enforcement.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: He would be the first one to say that he was not pushing me into law enforcement.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Even during his time, he mentioned how law enforcement was shifting and it was getting harder and harder, and not just because of what you were dealing with, but because of the environment.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um when I was growing up in it, it wasn't a political faction.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: But you just you worked in your community, but as things became more volatile, it just got harder and harder.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I was approaching, you know, my senior year, talking to him about, hey, you know, this is something that I would I think I would enjoy, he would tell me every single time, he's like, I have no problem with that, but go to college first.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Go to college first, try something else.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't want me to do it just because it's what I've seen.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that there were many other things that you could do, but there were countless examples where people needed help, and my dad was in a position to help.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to be a police officer to do that.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are amazing people across our communities, but there's a certain training and and And ability you do get over time to be able to provide that assistance.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I wanted that.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to be able to help people.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I got to the point where I'm like, dad, okay, college, good.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I I I worked for actually Franklin Covey, which I really enjoyed.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I I loved teaching time management.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I loved teaching the seven habits for highly effective people.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, I I want to do something more.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so then he when again I've checked all the boxes, he was very supportive, and I put in my application.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And what what role did you start in as what's the progression through police officer?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: So the progression is for the California Highway Patrol, it's you start in as a cadet.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um they don't take lateral transfers.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to work for that agency, you start in as nothing.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um there are many phrases that are used to describe how low a cadet is on the totem pole, um, which I won't go into.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just say you are at the bottom and you train in an in-house academy for 27 weeks living there, and it is a boot camp and college experience put together.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um they they want to expose you to many things.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yelling, a lot of yelling, a lot of screaming, a lot of physicality, um, but at the same time, you need to learn on the academic side.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a really good balance.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you do that, you graduate to become an officer, and then you can promote up the chain.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the fun parts is you don't know where you're gonna work in the academy.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: They you know you're gonna work somewhere.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: They don't tell you till about a month before you graduate where you're going to be assigned, and it can be anywhere in the state of California.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to be ready to move anywhere you get assigned.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thankfully assigned Redwood City, which is the peninsula of that San Francisco Bay Area, which is one of just the most beautiful places in the United States.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you were assigned as uh as an officer, yeah.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody goes officer level, and and that's that's the vast majority of all of our all of our work.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And was it an office job?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Was it riding a motorcycle?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Was it driving a car?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, gotcha.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you want some of the stuff I've done essentially?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I started as an officer in a car, and that's how everybody starts.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: You need to learn the basics.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it truly was amazing.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: You once you get through your field training, which is not fun, like none of it, think of it as residency, like you've graduated.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter you've graduated.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: You get to that, like you get sworn in as an officer, you feel good for about five minutes.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: You get to that office, you're you're back down at the very bottom.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: You have other officers who are in charge of you, you have to go through all this training.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Once you get through all of that, and I I can remember vividly the first time I started the car and I drove out of the office by myself in a patrol car.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's an amazing feeling, and it's weird because you are on your own.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a very large area that I was over, and and I had friends that that I had gotten to know that were there to support me, but it was it was an amazing and stressful experience the first time you pull someone over or you go to assist somebody by yourself.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's up to you.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not just in charge of your safety, but their safety as well.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, there were there were times where you're just like, oops, should have done that differently, right?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: But but you're learning as you go, and truly a wonderful growing experience.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: I though, my career, if you were to match my dad and me, we we did the same agency and we didn't do really anything that was the same.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I enjoy traffic investigation, but my dad is like the whiz at it.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I went to and and I wanted to be like all the fun things the department can do.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I did uh climbing and repelling for the department, right?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that if we were to effect a rescue.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I do that stuff, I enjoy it.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's how do I tie off to my patrol car and scale down a cliff to go and and provide aid to somebody, which I was able to do, and it was a blast.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um I got to be a bicycle officer, which you think you want to do that as a state police?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because I got to cruise around the the San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge or the Bay Bridge and get paid for it.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now we were there because there were suicide jumpers and other things, so we had a very serious role, and we got to interact with individuals in that um as they were going through those challenges, but it was a blessing to do that.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I got to take that, I got to work special events, um, and I got to be the First Amendment officer for the state, and I got to really learn about the Constitution, about how important it is for everybody to have their ability to protest against the government, to demonstrate.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's in law enforcement, usually you're on the one side and protesters are on the other.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the First Amendment officer is there to really liaison between both because there it is important to protect an individual's right to do that safely while it's you know the laws are being followed.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was transferred to the state capitol and I got to do that for, man, a good number of years, and I got to work through and be over you know over 3,000 different events and protests, and I learned a ton.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I got to work with groups that I initially thought, well, I'm, you know, I'm against this group because I'm in law enforcement.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately became really good friends with people on so many different issues and so many organizations, and they were hopefully able to get a greater understanding of maybe police officers or peace officers through through my interactions with them.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I am one of those.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a big fan of the term law enforcement.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a peace officer.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's what I am.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: And according to the statutes in California, I was sworn in as a peace officer.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously I'm there to enforce laws, but my greater thing was to be that that level of peace and how to get people to that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I did that.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I got to do a ton of other crazy things that again are just fun um for law enforcement.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I got to travel all over.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it let all led me to, I think, where you're gonna ask is amber alerts and everything else, right?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: That is my next question of what led you to the path of amber alerts?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how was that just like it sounded like fun?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do a new area that we haven't tried yet, and then from there you ended up being the coordinator for the state.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's that progression?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think I one thing that I got to do and I've gotten to do most of my life is I enjoy problems and finding solutions, whether it's adjusting the process, whether it's adjusting a policy, a practice, a training.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's something that's going wrong.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: What can I do to make that process improve, more be more efficient, reach that goal faster, better, all those things.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: I got to do that pretty much in everything that I did within that department.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the things I've talked about and others.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I remember being promoted up, and I got to work a specific task force for the state hospital and developmental centers for the state, which were experiencing a lot of problems.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so assigned to kind of go and perform an analysis and investigate and do a lot of things over there.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I finished that and essentially was given an opportunity to work in our counterterrorism and threat awareness section.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they were the ones that housed the Amber Alert and really all the different alerts for the state.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I got in, I was one of those, you know, my radar was going off.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my goodness, this is an amazing program.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why doesn't anybody know about it?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's an amazing program.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we doing it this way?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we were still on fax machines, and I'm not that old, folks.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it was just because that's the way it's been done.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and so it's I started looking, and of course, big mistake, right?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever if you're in a paramilitary organization, or maybe it works in your organizations where you are, when you start to criticize something, they're gonna be like, oh no problem, it's now yours.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: You own it.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, fix it.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: You have you have an idea, go for it.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was like, fantastic.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: I did work with some other officers and sergeants, lieutenants, captains, and and others that were extremely supportive.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't want to even in in a an ounce say everything was all me.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was very much a team effort.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was definitely a catalyst in that sense of let's learn more, let's adjust a process, let's really look into it.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um the Ember Alert program in California was going okay, but I think we weren't leveraging technology the way we should have.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, you've if you've heard me on this program or in training, I say it a lot.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: You need to leverage technology, leverage your community.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: That that is the way to make it successful.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I presented some problems that we needed to overcome, and I reached out to IPAUS, and IPAUS is the division under FEMA that is in charge of the technical support to use different tools, and they didn't necessarily have answers to my questions either.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: But the the amazing part is we figured them out together, and I got to be kind of a point person for IPAUS to work through some of these things.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: To um again, one big thing that happened while I was there is being able to hyperlink from a wireless emergency alert.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: That that's all it's it's just normal now.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't then, and I was the first person in the United States to put in a hyperlink.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because working with them and testing and saying this is how it should work, but in a live alert, ultimately, and I got it approved, I'm like, let's do it.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And there was so much work that went into that little piece, that little advancement.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because where are you gonna send people?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, do you send them to a government website?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do you send them to a private website?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you send them to Twitter or X or Facebook?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's a government um asset that is now promoting a potentially commercial product, and you have to be careful.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so there was so much like legal uh discussion and and and ultimately we sided with what's gonna be the best way to help save kids or people, and that's that's what we ended up doing.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: And like I'm glad we're not going into all the mistakes through that process because folks, if you're gonna start running, you've got to crawl, walk, and run.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't talk about trips, but we tripped a few times.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: And there were times when we put in a hyperlink or we did something different with a message, and it's um I've been told it doesn't crash a system, quote unquote, right?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it it causes it to trigger different security things, and and a website may not work the same.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um so man, we've been through so many ups and downs.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I was given that program and I literally just took it with both hands, and I said, let's let's make it the best in the nation.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it again had great support, and iPAUS was amazing, and we really I think became the most effective and the the standard bearer for the missing endangered person alerts, I will say internationally.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And was your Amber program in California also doing other kinds of missing persons alerts?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, it was it was all and so amber is sometimes the umbrella term.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's if it's any type of alert, it will fall under there for missing endangered persons.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um at the same time, the state was learning about using the same tools for all the other hazards that exist.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you do that and who can you use?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where you know the California Highway Patrol had a 24-7 center, which we ran for this stuff.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: We were running a department operations center for the entire state, and so we were the ones that people would call essentially for alert questions, for alert information, because we were the only one that was 24-7 that focused on it.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you probably had a pretty strong partnership with the state that was also overseeing alerts and warnings up and down the coast.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, and that's the California Office of Emergency Services, um, Cal OES, you know, absolutely.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, we sent easily uh 20 times more alerts than they did, if not even higher, because it it hadn't been used that much.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one thing that as you're listening to the show, you guys can see a progression where alerts are being used a whole lot more today than they were five years ago, ten years ago.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And while the state had that ability, they weren't sending out alerts.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was something that they were still trying to learn, and so that's why we got to be the resource for that.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: And as new legislation came about, as um issues happened, as disasters happened, um, we were very much involved.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um what were some of your success stories as you worked as the coordinator?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um there's quite a few.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a few that I like are ones that we got the community involved in.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like there are some that I mean, they they really kind of changed the game for amber alerts across the nation.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And these are some of our lessons.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is I had one where where I activated the wireless emergency alert.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was, I don't want to get into all the details, but let's say it was a guy who took a child that he should not have had, did some bad stuff to the child's mother, and took off south, was headed to the border.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and Jeanette's heard this one where we activated the wireless emergency alert, but this is where we really got into the timing component and said, well, let's do timing differently.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Some people do the statewide all at once, and I'm like, there's gotta be a better way.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, through basic math, guesstimating if he is headed south in an hour, where's he gonna be?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: In two hours, where's he gonna be?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so setting up activation zones and essentially turning them on at different times to make it the best chance to find him if he was going south.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it worked out really well because he was at a gas station and everybody there got our wireless emergency alert.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: They clicked on our link, they saw his picture, the car, everything.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: They essentially boxed him in, put him in a headlock, um, called local law enforcement, and we are not advocating for vigilanteism at all.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: But since I'm no longer in that agency and I can say what I want at this point, it was freaking awesome to see the community essentially go hands-on with that individual and detain him, and then law enforcement got there and and obviously recovered the child which was not hurt, and then took him into custody.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he may have had a bruise or two on him.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like little things like that were amazing.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: But helping people understand that it's not just amber alerts, that these tools save lives.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um again, whether it's a child with autism, whether it's an adult that has a cognitive impairment, um one that's a tongue-in-cheek favorite was one that was in the San Jose area.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we sent it out for an endangered adult who needed medication, and and we're we're talking in like 75 to 80-year-old um female, and she needed uh medication, she didn't take it, she had walked away.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: These happen all the time, and unfortunately, people get into a state we're like, oh, okay, it's another one.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when you use the tools appropriately, we did, I think it was like a half a mile radius to her last scene position, and it was outside of a Costco that she was found.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: She was found under a tree, sitting sleeping, but she wasn't just sleeping, she was essentially passed out.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: But there were other homeless and transient individuals in that area, and so it just looked like she was one of the many.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think of the hundreds of people who passed her, just without acknowledging or anything else.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we sent the alert, and of course, it it linked to a flyer.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: They saw the flyer, you know, image.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: They a person coming out of Costco literally looked and said, wait, that's her, called 911 and was able to get her the help she needed.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's everything.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now, with that said, there are uh a lot of fires, a lot of disasters, um, paradise, I mean, to this day, still weighs on my mind.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: And looking at how alerts and warnings were done, how they weren't done, some of the problems we had, I mean, that's where we really started looking at infrastructure.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when your cell tower, everything goes down because of the crazy fire, what could we have done differently?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so there uh California really offered a uh treasure trove of opportunities to learn from and really make a good program.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of other organizations that you worked with over your time in the Amber program, what kinds of organizations nationwide were you involved with?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: So the first one, and my my thing is wherever you are, I I focused on my stakeholders where I was.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I didn't have the answers for everything.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so getting the Broadcasters Association involved was huge.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're into marketing media, they understand the space really, really well.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Getting our social media companies involved.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: At the time it was Twitter, and we had a great relationship.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: They helped us understand how we needed to do things using them.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um now I'm sure it's a lot harder, but they helped us essentially clear our page to make it so anybody could access it at any time.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they they jumped through some different hoops.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Getting our local sheriffs, local chiefs, um, governor's office.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, really, we pushed the limit.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you could be a stakeholder, we wanted you in this group, and that's what made it powerful.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Once we got our stuff all together, um it was amazing how many people started knocking on the door, asking questions.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: And while I was with the California Highway Patrol, I had I probably worked with 25 or 30 other states to help them develop their programs because they, you know, we procure from others, right?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Why reinvent the wheel?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so doing that, um the federal government came over and asked questions and we started meeting.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I worked with Mexico, I worked with Canada, I worked with England or Great Britain.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it just there were multiple, and again, going to the the NAB for the National Association of Broadcasters, again, key group, and then at the national level, it's your chiefs of police, your sheriff's association.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it's also NECMEC, which is your National Center for Missing Exploited Kids.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's different autism safety councils or boards, um, Alzheimer's Association.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: There are a ton of people out there that want to help.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: And again, if you can start leveraging those partnerships, it's amazing what can happen.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you you moved um outside of just doing Amber Alerts and other missing persons' alerts because your your experience is really vast.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: You've covered Paradise, you talked about, and working with other organizations in the state and up and down the state also.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, what other aspects of alerts um, like policy, technology, advising elected officials, walking new users through iPods programs.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what of those is your favorite?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: And why would you lean that direction?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um well, anytime I can be out and train, like I love to be hands-on with organizations.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love hearing their problems and helping them find solutions.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, oftentimes when I get a phone call, it's because a tragedy has happened, and people are really in their most vulnerable state.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's really humbling to get a phone call from somebody who has just had um and I don't want to say just pick your poison or pick your tragedy, but but really they've had somebody die, and that that's ultimately the biggest one.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: And whether it's a child, whether it's multiple members of a community, um, whether they're a fire has died.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Decimated their town, they want to know, and they're like, What can we do?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we need help.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes it's too late to send out information to prevent more tragedy.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so what I love to do is anything proactive.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's a word that we throw around here a lot that a lot of people hate, and it's called policy.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, policy is not fun, and I'm the first one to say it, it's not fun.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: You it could be boring.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have a sound policy and it falls within governance documents, right, you are going to be in a much better position.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because when that event happens, that emergency happens, you're going to fall back on that policy, especially if you have other people involved.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: It can't just be word of mouth or handshake deals.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if that policy document is not ready to go, you're not going to be ready to go.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say on the on the positive side, if you have a policy document, something that directs this is what we do, why we do it, how we do it, you're going to be in a much better position to have that positive outcome, or at least have less of that negative outcome.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's probably one of my favorite things.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love asking people for their policies, and they're just like, okay, here you go.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then they actually have to look at it and they're like, whoa, we don't really want to send that to you because it's not very good.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's it's fun.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I know you do something called a gap assessment with policies.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you're looking at those, what are you looking for?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: So um, thank you, and you have a good part in that too.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when we do our gap assessments, it's not a compliance review, and it's not an I gotcha.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't grade you to say, well, you guys are you're failing, you know.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a rating from zero to five, and zero being it just doesn't exist at all, to five being you're beyond national practices, like in a positive way.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: What we do is we really assess and see what are the parts, and it's broken into ten different categories.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you doing really well, and where are some areas, again, gap, right?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: Where we need to shore up, where we need to fill in.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's it's hopefully used as a document that you can take to your higher-ups to say, okay, this is you know the 10 criteria that are used across all the different policies out there for alerting, alerts and warnings, and this is where we're doing okay, this is where we're not doing well at all, and we actually have zeros in this area because we haven't talked about it or we haven't written it down.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'll say most and people we talk to, Jeanette, they've talked about it.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not written, it's not documented, so therefore, it doesn't exist.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that it becomes the document that they can take to their elected officials and say, look, this is clearly laying out the areas where we can make some improvements if we put some time and energy there.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and hopefully that helps to establish a a basis for getting attention to to work on that.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when you look nationwide, what are the biggest gaps in alerts and warnings?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh it's funny, you and I may give a similar response to this.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: I my paradigm for alerts and warnings shifted and it's it's still adjusting based on research that I am being exposed to.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to do things the best that I can for my community and for your community.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: When when you call me, I want to be offering you the very best that I can, and that adjusts continually based on actual information.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Gone is the world of when we did it based on our own best guess, and that that really was a stage.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: And Jeanette has reinforced me that that's okay because I look at what it is now and I'm like, crap, I could have done this so much better, but I really didn't have have anything.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like the research hadn't been done or it wasn't made available to me.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now we have so much information, and so I I'd say a key gap is helping to link that that research and the best practices in a practical way that can be easily consumed by us who may not be as smart, right?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say me, that I can then put it into a working document or put it into my practices.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I could just look back and I'm thinking about actual experiences where I'm like, if I could have made my messages more complete, if I would have understood the components or even geographic targeting things differently, I could have been much more effective.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the the best way to look at it is just going forward, right?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because we can't fix the past.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: We can learn from it.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: So going forward, I I hope we can find better ways to link up everybody who's out there working their butts off, they're working as hard as they can with the best way to do it and make it easier for them to make that adjustment because your communities are going to be that much better off.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you will too, because you know that it's based in something, not just your two years of doing it or two months.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: We do have decades of research, and it makes total sense that people were relying on their best guesses, wanting to be helpful, and then asking their neighbor organization for their suggestions.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if you haven't been exposed to the research, then of course you're gonna be using your best intuition and trying to apply the limited training that you may have in the area.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really happy to know that the research is getting out farther and talking about it on these podcasts is making a difference.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all right, so looking forward to see your last question.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: What is what's next for the field of alerts and warnings?
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and as a little teaser, do you think standards where credentials fits into the long-term plan?
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, okay.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: That right there, folks, is a softball question to hit a home run.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of our areas that we need, and we need it soon, is that uh our our standards.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um best effort can no longer be the defensible position.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um we need a certification program, we need actual coursework.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and IAEM and other organizations, EMAP, they they have for agency level, this is what things that you can do, that's all great.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking down to the individual alert originator, the person that's pushing the buttons.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: What training are we going to require and provide, right?
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because we can't just require it, we have to then provide what it is and make sure that it's verifiable, make sure that it's realistic, um, that it's that it makes sense, it's actionable, it's something that you can actually do.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: We need that.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that I know we're in talks about.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're waiting for the federal government for some because they're based on legislation required to produce that.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: And while I was there, I know that they were in talks and trying to figure out the best way to do it.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the scariest things for me is the fact that Jeanette, let's say pick a pick a name of a city.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Clifton Park.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: Clifton Park.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea where that is, if it's real or not, but Clifton Park.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: You are now, um, you've been asked to be the alerting authority for Clifton Park.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say you have no experience whatsoever, you got the job because you were really good at um being a dog catcher, and they said you ran that program well, you're gonna be in charge of this.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: It has 500,000 residents.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we want you to become an alerting authority to have use of the IPOS tools.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, great, where's my training, right?
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's what that's what you should say.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, okay, all you need is to do one two-hour class, right?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you do that two-hour online class, they hand you the keys to this system and just say go.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is currently all that it takes to then be in charge and have access to these amazing tools that exist, and that's why it can be dangerous, because even if you're trying really hard, which I think you would, if you didn't have all the extra training, you may not do as well.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you may send messages that aren't complete, that don't go to the right space.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: To make matters worse, you can't work 24 hours a day.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna hire a an assistant.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Who would you hire?
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let's throw it out.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Give me a name.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'd hired um Bruce.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: Bruce.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: Bruce, great guy.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: Bruce is like, Jeanette, I am gonna be your backup.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: That way you can go to England, you can vacation, do what you need to do, you know I'm here.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Bruce is not required to take a single hour of training in order to get access to what you have because you've done it.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: Your agency has done it.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that right there, folks, is the biggest problem.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because let's say Jeanette eventually retires.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, access has already been given to the program.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so Bruce, who's now the endow the director, didn't need to do anything else.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Bruce hires another assistant, doesn't need to do anything else, and we have that.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the big kind of elephant in the room that they're trying to address is how do we how do we do that?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are talks, I know that I have been talked to about um the creation, right, of an international association of alerting authorities, like of something similar to IAEM, where we need to have an association of people that are in this space that we can work together and have one repository of the best practices, the mistakes, everything else, so we can learn from each other.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but again, still in discussions.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: If anybody's ever tried to start one of those, it's not that easy.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because you need to make sure you get all the right people involved to make sure that it's effective.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um we do start it, we'll probably announce it here, right?
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I am grateful for those in this space, Jeanette, like you and like some of the amazing other people that we have interviewed who are trying to make that positive difference to fill that gap.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think it would be fantastic to have credentialing and standards that are written down and agreed upon by the standardizing organizations such as NFPA or um other groups that might create those kinds of standards, um, and that they're adopted by individuals who get certified, but also by agencies.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um and those, in my mind, the standard includes not only the training on how to use iPods, but it includes must-have policy, must have um the message templates, must have everyone in the organization trained, all of those those things that would lead to better outcomes than what we're destined to have if the keys are passed on to someone who never has to take any training.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just think what would happen if if we had that type of certification and then I left that role, but I got to keep my certification.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so as I'm being looked in, you know, at other positions, or if I'm uh your city, if I'm a different city, and I'm like, hey, for this role, I want someone to have this certification.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: They can bring it over, or they have to get it once they get here.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, that would be wonderful.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um I gotta say, I am really hopeful too that in the next few years we tackle access and functional needs in regards to alert and warning.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we have put people on the moon.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: We just finished circling the back side of the moon.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we should be able to send a message to somebody who needs a little extra time in a different way.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it is a complex problem.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to oversimplify.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been in the discussions on the back end on the tech side.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to take partnerships, but it's going to take people just taking steps and actions instead of just talking about it.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have friends in our community, and even I will say for those that are not friends with you, they still deserve the same information.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: And whether it's it's someone who is seeking it because they can't visually see it, they can't, they can't hear the alert, they may, they may need it in another language.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um we need to get better at that.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I am super hopeful that the next five years, I would love it tomorrow, but within the next five years, these partnerships are going to create amazing tools so that everybody has access to it.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um like one thing that stuck with me from an interview, and I want to say the last few agencies that I've consulted with, I've brought this up since the interview, right?
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm changing, is sending out alerts early, early alerts, early warnings to those that need more time.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: If if my family member has a wheelchair that has to get charged, extra medication, all these things, I can't I can't leave the same time as everybody else.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: I need more time to pack and prepare.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: We should be better at that.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's why adjusting policy and practices can help.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm very hopeful for the future.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: I really am.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's fantastic.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have truly enjoyed hearing about where you're from, what you've done in your life to get to the point where you're at, your vision for the future, and I will put in a plug for the Alerting Authority and the work that we do collaboratively in addressing some of these hopes for the future and overcoming some of the problems that Eddie has talked about in this discussion today.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we provide um policy uh advisement, we review message templates, we do trainings, we work directly with organizations that are trying to understand how to utilize their technology.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Eddie does that, um, and we we come alongside of you and help you to develop the confidence that you need and that you should have as you're sitting in your position as an alerting authority.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: We do have a warning boot camp coming up in July, July 20th through 24th.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we would love to see you as part of that uh short week of uh alerting authorities who are working on their critical message templates.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you have an interest in joining that or an interest in working with the alerting authority, please don't hesitate to reach out.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um we are happy to be part of your community.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: And Eddie, do you want to sign us off?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: You bet.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna do a quick tease back to you.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, aren't we done yet?
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um continue folks, continue your education, continue learning.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I I literally thought I was done on the education side, and I was always up for learning more about this process, but they really go hand in hand.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're not affiliated with any specific university or anything else, but wherever you are, it can benefit you to take more classes, to understand how research happens, to potentially participate in that research.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, that's one of the ways Jeanette's influenced me.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I got my master's degree, and I literally thought I was done until I met her.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, take that next step.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm in the process myself of taking that next step.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I would encourage everybody else, don't become stagnant where you are.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even if it's one class or anything else, you you have to stay in the student mindset of this.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is that fair, Jeanette?
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's totally fair.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:00:51
  unknown: Perfect.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then I will sign us off and say thank you for listening.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being a part of our group, right?
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: That that's helping bring all this stuff um to just a better place.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is the alerting authority, um, where every second has a story.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for listening.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I got to share part of mine.