Latest / The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers / Reality Bytes #32: Boston driving (and other "experiences")

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Reality Bytes #32: Boston driving (and other "experiences") · The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers

0:01
Welcome Item Change Makers to the Deck show with Tim Flower and Tom McGrath.
0:07
Let's get into it. Hello everybody, it's been a minute, but we're
0:13
back. It's reality bites and we have we have a full house for you
0:17
today, which means there's me there's Tim Flower, there's Dina ves Sean,
0:22
there's Megan and we are expecting Oreana to join us to any minute now.
0:27
So very very excited to be back on a mic. Obviously, we've had
0:31
a bit of a break with everything we've had going on at next thing,
0:35
specifically around the Incredible Experience Everywhere World tour, and you know, for one
0:42
last time we're going to be discussing it today because almost everybody on this call
0:47
was able to attend one or more of those experiences, and Tim and I
0:52
are fortunate enough to attend two. We were on stage. If you saw
0:56
us in London and then in Boston, and we had a good time,
1:00
didn't we. Tim, Yeah, it was a blast that it was really
1:03
cool to be in the same room with everybody and let everyone at the at
1:07
the show experience what we do, kind of get a little bit of a
1:10
behind the scenes view. It was pretty slick. Yeah, it was amazing
1:14
and listen after last year's experienced or we had a we had a great episode.
1:19
I barely laughed more recording reality bites it was. I think the episode
1:23
is called the New York hot Dog because there was a pretty serious discussion,
1:27
yeah, all of the panelists about whether these were fit to eat and if
1:32
so, when was appropriate. Now I have an analogous thing, right,
1:38
I hate to pick on the I feel a bit bad picking on the American
1:42
venue of Boston general commentary. Not not not bad about it for Boston's sake,
1:49
but bad because I feel like American centric because I was also in London,
1:52
as I said, and it was also in Paris, but you know,
1:55
America is a more exotic trip for me. I fly the furthest I
1:57
see even it feels more different, more exhausting to be there. And this
2:02
time that rather than the hot dogs, the standout cultural outside of impression,
2:07
I took away concerned Boston driving. I didn't even know there was a thing
2:14
around it and I won't repeat very rude turn, but they used themselves as
2:22
what it was. It was. So I was in a taxi and I
2:23
was like, what is wrong with these people? I was, I was
2:27
scared for my life, and I realized that this isn't just a random phenomenal
2:30
because I've been to Boston a couple of times, and every time I get
2:34
him a cab, I'm scared for my life. And at first you think
2:36
it was it was a scary taxi driver. Now I'm thinking, this is
2:38
this is a this is a this is a thing Boston. It is definitely
2:45
a thing. You have to they have to drive like that to survive.
2:46
My Uber driver got stuck in traffic and his solution was to cut through a
2:51
parking garage at a hotel to get around the traffic jam. That's slick.
2:55
That's just like I thought were going to say, just drove them a sidewalk
3:00
close to it. I mean, you never know, right, You never
3:02
know the levels of aggression on the roads there because in person, everybody's quite
3:07
quite lovely, you know, everybody's quite polite and would be how I described
3:13
Bostonians. But on the roads, we see the Bostonian id and you know,
3:19
we have a we have a we have to actually in Meghan and Sean
3:23
and Meghan I spoke to a lot of the event about it, but Sean
3:25
I had never spoken to you about this. I know you're not not there
3:28
now, you're based in Spain today, but you were born and bred,
3:30
of course Boston driving, Sean, what are your what are your reflections on
3:35
it? Well, I think one way maybe to help you, Tom is
3:37
to think, so us driving in Boston is like maybe the English at a
3:43
football match. You see the real you behind the wheel. Colors aren't exactly
3:49
interesting analogy. I like it. I I kind of thought you were going
3:53
to say us driving is the English cooking for a second, where I was
3:58
like, well, after going to London, I mean, seeing the diversity
4:03
of cuisine you have, I can't make fun of it anymore. You got
4:06
everything there that was great. It's true, it's true. And this was
4:10
sure and ironically born and bred in Boston, but came to the London event
4:14
and then went back to his home in Spain, and so we won't have
4:18
the luxury of his insight. But we're talking to Meghan. When I was
4:20
at the event, and it wasn't just making It was a colleague of ours
4:24
called Eron, and they were both decided like what's with the roads here?
4:28
And they were telling me of the kind of cultural background of all the stereotype
4:33
or notoriety, but Boston and Massachusetts has for its driving. But as they
4:39
were describing it and describing their experiences driving there that morning, they were getting
4:44
really angry. You could I could see the red mist descend of them even
4:47
describing their experience in the car. Meghan, is that does that feel accurate?
4:51
Does I feel fair? I'm laying here beyond mute and I'm cackling.
4:57
Yeah, I think, yeah, I don't cackling. I didn't. I
5:00
didn't even realize. I didn't even realize that I was such an aggressive driver
5:08
until I left Boston and like moved somewhere else. So I grew Yeah,
5:14
I grew up here. I grew up outside Boston in a suburb. But
5:16
to be fair, the bad driving extends all the way up to Greater Boston,
5:20
and I sort of thought it was normal, right that, like you
5:24
make lane changes pretty haphazardly, and you have to be aggressive if you want
5:29
to get anywhere because our traffic is so bad. You know, our road
5:30
system was designed by like basically cowpaths in the sixteen hundreds, so it's the
5:35
roads make no sense. And then I moved to Los Angeles, where everyone
5:40
said, oh, LA has the worst traffic in the world. LA has
5:42
the worst drivers in the world. And I was immediately just like, oh,
5:45
I get this, Like this is pretty easy. I can navigate this
5:47
like this is fine. And then I did a you know, road trip
5:50
across the United States, and I realized that, like, I'm a jerk
5:55
on the roads, Like I'm a terrible person when I drive my car.
6:00
I don't think I'm a terrible person in the rest of my life, but
6:01
when I get behind the wheel on my car, I'm just like nobody exists
6:04
but me. I'm out for all I could get, like, get out
6:08
of my way. It's not it's not healthy, but it is. It's
6:12
it's our survival. It's a cultural tradition of sots. Yeah, it's it's
6:16
for Bostonian not necessarily an obvious one for reality vibes, but nonetheless I put
6:23
it it fit. Yes, And you mentioned lane changing, that is that
6:28
is actually quite distinct because it's not just your changing lanes. The general point
6:31
of lane changing in Boston seems to be to to swerve directly in front of
6:38
some fellow driver who's signal shows weakness to him. Right, Why would I
6:48
expose to others what I plan to do well, because then they'll speed up
6:53
if you. Oh it's yeah, I take some joy crumber lights on when
7:00
they're double parking. Right, oh, right, right, yeah. I
7:05
was gonna say, Oriana, because you're you're you weren't born and raised in
7:09
Boston, but you live there. Now, When did it? When did
7:11
it strike you the first time that these roads ain't normal? What are your
7:15
reflections as an emigrat to Boston. I actually I haven't found it that terrible,
7:23
being like on the outside of Boston, but yeah, I don't drive
7:28
into Boston unless I absolutely have to. There's like there's below the river and
7:33
above the River in Boston, and they're like two separate countries. Got it?
7:39
Got it? Okay, this is me. This sounds like a discussion
7:42
for another time. Now we're moving into the finer details of Bostonian cultural geography.
7:47
So but let's stay with you, Orian It. Because it was wonderful
7:51
to see you in Boston in person once again. And I got the impression
7:58
because I was I was flitting in an I had various things to do,
8:01
but I kind of saw you in the audience quite a bit. So I
8:05
wonder if you might be one of the best positioned people be cool to tell
8:09
us how what it was like and really what stood out to you about the
8:11
Boston event in particular. Yeah, it was really good to see you and
8:16
so many other people too. I think that was one of my favorite things,
8:20
was just having the chance to talk to so many people, and of
8:24
the people I spoke to, that's something that they mentioned to was how delightful
8:28
it was to be able to connect with other people share experiences learned from one
8:33
another. One of the things that I had the privilege of sitting in on
8:39
our user group, and so that was really great because there were these very
8:43
organic conversations there. So in Boston specifically, there was a day before the
8:50
start of experience everywhere where we had training and we had a user group.
8:54
And one of the reasons I want to mention that session is because in the
8:58
user we had individual people come up and share stories of projects they had done
9:05
with next think at their organization, and answer super detailed questions from the audiences
9:11
and really get into the nitty gritty, which is super different from the talks.
9:15
Right the talks are super polished, They're like, here's the process,
9:18
whereas in the user group, you hear a lot more of like, this
9:22
is what didn't work, you know, these are the things that we tried,
9:26
These are the workarounds we found, and then this is how we persuaded
9:30
this person of the value of this thing. This is the pushback that we
9:33
got, This is how we proved the value. And I think being able
9:39
to talk through how people overcame those challenges was super valuable and also gives people
9:45
a chance to network and connect. So if other folks that are interested in
9:50
that kind of more conversational experience, I also highly recommend joining next Think Community
9:54
and some of the upcoming events. We have regular tech cafes that are fantastic
9:58
for the same reason. Yeah, they're a lot of fun. That's a
10:03
really good point about the breakout session because there's actually a new innovation specifically,
10:07
I think at Boston this year. I don't think we did them in like
10:11
we didn't do them in London. I believe, and Megan, you were
10:13
able to attend a couple of pose yourself, am I right? Yeah,
10:18
So yeah, I believe the breakouts were a request from customers actually after New
10:22
York last year, because they, yeah, they wanted to have access to
10:26
you know more content, and I was. I was involved in putting together
10:31
one of them. I worked with the Dell team on their presentation, helped
10:33
coordinate, and I was standing in the hall as people were funneling in and
10:37
sort of coming to where we had the breakout sessions. We had three rooms,
10:41
so you had a choice of three different sessions before lunch, three different
10:45
sessions after. And I noticed, like you know, whole teams were coming
10:48
up and they were sort of strategizing, like, Okay, I'm going to
10:50
go watch the accenture talk you guys watched Dell. I'm going to go into
10:52
the third room. Like people were sort of like divide and conquering so they
10:56
could learn as much as possible from the breakouts had a single day, and
11:00
I thought, I thought that was pretty cool. Nice. And another thing
11:05
I know it stood out to you was the Gardner presentation, right, and
11:07
we'll get to that maybe in a second. I just wanted to say one
11:11
thing that stood out to me in midday was I caught Andrew Hewitt from Forrester's
11:15
presentation. If I can get away with mentioning Gardner and Forrester within a minute
11:18
of one another, I think they might both find us for that. And
11:22
what was cool about Andrew's always a great presenter was what I enjoyed about it
11:28
was he was an old head at experience, so he'd been experienced since it
11:33
was called analytics maybe eight nine years ago. To him, Does that sound
11:37
about right? Yeah? Yeah, it started out as an analytics conference,
11:41
yeah, yeah, and he'd been doing it every single year. And what
11:46
he said, which is I think gives perspective on the events, how phenomenal
11:50
they were, and what they reflect about the industry and about next think,
11:54
of course, is just that sense of growth. It was probably twenty five
11:56
people in a room back then talking about something very very pretty niche even within
12:01
it, and now it's like it's worldwide, it's hundreds and hundreds of people
12:05
every single event. It's it's it's it's it's really a cut above. They're
12:11
great experiences. They're great events with huge crowds. You know. So I
12:16
really like that perspective, and I know making you really enjoyed Tory Pullman from
12:20
Gardner, Is that right? Yeah? Yeah, I did. Yeah.
12:24
I caught their talk in the morning and I thought that it for me.
12:28
I think their message sort of captured like why everybody was there and why why
12:33
you felt that excitement in the space, Because like when we're outside the session
12:37
hall, like there was a palpable excitement, as Oriana noted, people were
12:41
excited to like meet other people who work in decks and like network and ask
12:46
questions like how are you doing it? How are you staffing your teams?
12:48
Like how are you thinking about this in your workplace? And Tory's talk started
12:54
with this like really cool kind of point they made where they were like,
12:56
let's go back in time to twenty nineteen, twenty twenty. If I'd asked
13:00
you in twenty nineteen if you could suddenly make your entire workforce remote, you
13:03
would have laughed in my face. But you did it. And like the
13:07
people in that room at Experience were the people who changed the way we work.
13:13
They facilitated this like massive shift. And Tory's point and the rest of
13:16
the presentation was now, with the advent of AI automation and the new way
13:20
of working, you're being asked to do it again, and you can if
13:24
you shift your focus from outputs to employee outcomes and really thinking about it as
13:31
the employee partner to facilitate like this new way of working and being willing like
13:35
you did in twenty twenty, to rethink the way the digital workplace is set
13:39
up. You can be this huge facilitator of ROE. Toy called it return
13:43
on employee or return on experience, and I just thought that was a really
13:46
cool talk. I felt like, I don't work in it. I'm not
13:50
on that side of things, but even I felt inspired by it. I
13:52
was like, oh, yeah, let's change the way we work. This
13:54
is really cool. So I thought, those are the speakers that are really
13:56
inspiring. Megan, I'm glad you called that out. It's the it's the
14:00
talks that make you sit there and say, yeah, you know what that's
14:01
I didn't even think of it that way. You know, it's not you're
14:05
not looking at a case study or numbers or data. It's a it's helping
14:09
people think differently. And Toy did a great job at that and Tom.
14:11
Anecdotally, I saw Tory from Gartner and Andrew from Forrester talking with each other
14:18
at one of the happy hours and I went up to them. I said,
14:20
this is like the Coca Cola truck driver meeting the Pepsi truck driver.
14:28
It's gonna be dramatic and on that point him, I mean, staying with
14:37
Boston, did you have any specific kind of anecdotis so actually I had one
14:43
from London, but in Boston, you know, I immediately gravitate to the
14:48
guests that we talked to, and they're all fantastic in their own way.
14:52
It's like picking a favorite child, right It's it's not something that I'm even
14:56
going to go into. But behind the scenes, though, it was great
15:03
to finally get some live feedback on the podcast itself. You know, I
15:05
had had a customer come up to me from I Think we can probably say
15:11
their name from Florida Light and Power at one of the happy hours and he
15:13
goes, Tim, it was great to meet you. And I just got
15:16
to tell you, I've been listening to your podcast for more than two years.
15:18
And I put my headphones on and I go mowed along and he said,
15:22
that was before we looked at Next Think. And I never knew you
15:26
guys were with Next Think. So when we started looking at the product,
15:30
the light bulb went on for me. I'm like, holy cow, these
15:31
two things are related. And I told him it's intentional. We don't talk
15:35
about Next Think. It's like fight club. You don't talk first roll of
15:37
fight Club is you don't talk about fight Club, but it's it's the it's
15:41
the different level of conversation, and it was it was really cool to get
15:45
some some nice feedback like that. That is wonderful. Yeah, huge shout
15:48
out to anybody listening who was able to come to the events, who came
15:52
and said hello. Absolute pleasure to meet you all. Absolute privilege to meet
15:56
some of For listeners, it was great fun. And what was your What
16:00
was your London? Was to ask you about London? Yeah, and again
16:04
I went to I went to thinking about the guests and the one unique one
16:08
that was different from all the other folks we've talked to was Robert Dornbas and
16:11
the conversation around investing to get time back, right and his invest the example
16:18
I used, you should maybe say who he is? Yah. So Robert
16:22
Dornbus was the Formula former Formula one race car driver, outstanding presence on the
16:27
stage. He did his own session and great videos, great examples of what
16:30
it's like to be a driver. But on our show we talked about how
16:34
do you invest money to get time back because even fractions of a second can
16:40
mean a win or a loss, and it's not just in the driver,
16:42
it's in the speed of the car, it's in the speed of the pit
16:47
stop. So I said, you got a million dollars, where are you
16:48
going to invest to get some of that time back? And I thought his
16:51
answer was really funny. He said, if you if all you got is
16:53
a million, don't even bother right, They're investing tens of millions of dollars
16:59
just to practice. So it was a real cool perspective on the amount of
17:03
money that you need to invest to actually win against the competition. I thought
17:07
it was pretty cool. Yeah, for sure, money, money in time
17:11
a real dynamic within des is I feel like a real emergent theme and something
17:18
we're going to be delving into more deeply, maybe in twenty twenty four.
17:22
But another man who's in London, as I say, is a Bostonian born
17:26
and bred colleague sure and now living in Spain, who came to London in
17:30
the London event. And you enjoyed the trip generally, Sean, And how
17:33
how was the event in your view? I did. I had a good
17:37
time. For what I saw of London only one square kilometer space, it
17:41
looked like a beautiful city. So I'll be back. But one thing I
17:45
picked up from the London event, and I'm sure it's happened in some of
17:48
the other locations was kind of like repeat attendees, folks that I've seen familiar
17:55
faces over the years, which was nice to see obviously for the community aspect
18:00
of it, but a lot of them I had some conversations we were doing
18:03
customer interviews and had talks to them off camera and found out that a lot
18:07
of these people have gone on to other different jobs in a different company,
18:12
but they've sort of brought decks with them and they've come back to next thing,
18:17
which I thought was really powerful because it's not just different people every year
18:22
that come to the conference. It's people that really believe not only in the
18:26
product, but in sort of the narrative that we finally put on this thing
18:29
that we've created a couple of years ago, which was cool. Obviously.
18:33
Another thing is telling about that is people are using it as a means to
18:37
either you get a salary bump, or to maybe start an entire new DEX
18:42
team from scratch when they walk into a new company and feeling like, you
18:48
know, the tool is capable enough that they can literally put their job on
18:52
the line to do it is pretty cool. I love that. I've spoken
18:56
to tons of customers who have been repeating customers and hired to bring Index capabilities
19:03
and knowledge and insight into their new inter venue employers organization. And I think
19:10
that's the hub of the success of the category, is that it offers people
19:17
a set of skills which are genuinely impactful and valuable. And I think that's
19:22
in turn reflected on the atmosphere of the events, the atmosphere of attentiveness,
19:29
enthusiasm, and people genuinely being kind of curious and there for a reason.
19:36
You know, they're not just people. Don't just come to these events just
19:38
to get a day out of the office or the home office. I can
19:42
tell you that, Dina, I feel a little bad for your Dina.
19:47
We're delighted to have you there. Quite unusual to have a full house and
19:52
reality bias. How nice it is to be with your But Dina, you
19:56
haven't been to it yet. However, exactly however, by the Davis Goes
20:03
Live, the Davis Goes Like you will be there in experienced Munich, so
20:07
in a way present tense almost when people are listening to this you'll be at
20:12
experience or you'll have been at experience. So I think that I think that
20:15
customer, or we can say that that's going to be streamed out in real
20:19
time. Right, so by the time they should be hearing the podcast,
20:23
we should be in the last ee in Munich, right. But so,
20:32
yeah, so I've seen the replays, I've seen some of our great customers
20:37
presenting different kinds of use cases and value cases. And one of the other
20:41
good points to highlight, it's not just about the money saved and the and
20:47
the time saved, but also the productivity. And this is one of the
20:51
very cool interesting coming out now more than before, that we are seeing with
20:56
our different kinds of customers in different regions that everybody is looking towards the productivity
21:02
and productivity from the employee productivity from their own engineers and the teams that they
21:07
have in place. Going back to that other point where we have seen multiple
21:11
customers growing into their careers because of next thing and because of using the product
21:17
to its full potential. That's amazing to see. Since the analytics events back
21:22
in the days and the recurring experience events that we are having now, one
21:27
good feedback that we get and it is reflecting back to what Oreano is highlighting.
21:33
The tech cafes. That's where you have almost every month or now every
21:37
week, different kinds of tech cafes where we have people from our product,
21:42
different customers talking and will then accelerate as well. We share success stories and
21:48
valuable stories once every month at least, so we get to benefit a lot
21:52
from the user's the customer's interaction to know better from their user's perspective and how
21:57
it would be. So it's a good way to communicate more and more on
22:02
the success of how we are using the product with our current customers and how
22:06
other customers can use the product furthermore and just advance on it. Thanks,
22:11
that's great, and enjoy I hope you're enjoying experience slash enjoyed experience as in
22:18
real time. Thank you, and yeah, you know you should say,
22:23
but you know, if you if you happen to be in Munich and you
22:26
hear it first thing in the morning, you could just make it. You
22:29
could just make it. But we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna wrap
22:32
up, just gonna. Tim likes to say you can't choose between the customers
22:34
and I'm not asking anyone to choose between the customers or any of the other
22:37
presentations, but if you saw one presentation, because all of these presentations,
22:42
I think you know, the Analyst ones aren't, of course, but absolutely
22:47
all of the other ones, give or take, are available on the EE
22:52
on demand sites for the events which have already taken place, and for Munich
22:56
it will be in a matter of days after this podcast is released. There's
23:00
really fantastic sites there. The content's beautifully laid out in our very own make
23:06
and Break had something to do with that, and there's some really really quality
23:11
stuff there. So if you couldn't go to London, couldn't go to Boston,
23:12
couldn't go to Paris, couldn't go to any of them, you can
23:15
you can sit and delve into those presentations nonetheless, and I really really recommend
23:22
that you do so. And I think we shouill just throw out a little
23:26
recommendation something we saw on stage from a customer. But food is great,
23:30
but is great and tim you go first met Yeah, I would be remiss
23:34
if we didn't give another huge public shout out to Darren from Honeywell and Zakir
23:38
from Totam Motors North America. Awesome insights. Great to have them on the
23:42
stage and just want to give another public thank you to both of them.
23:47
Good shout, good chout. Sure, and I don't know how much time
23:49
you were able to spend in the audience in London, hopefully a bit.
23:52
I know you were very busy collecting videos and such. I was so I
23:57
missed most of the customer presentations. But the one anecdote I have is actually
24:02
from our own Sam Gantner, who is presenting a demo and going through a
24:07
pretty comical situation of calling it help and he was showing the new features of
24:14
next Thing Flow and somebody stood next to me let out a wow, like
24:18
really really loud, which I thought was kind of funny. So you don't
24:22
typically see that during an it demo for a product, but that was coolsping
24:29
No, yes, that's for our CEO, Pedro, but Dust and Sam
24:33
Gantner, who we've had a show head of product, do check out that
24:37
keynote. I'm not sure if that's available into laughter meuni, but will pretty
24:40
much be after me and this comes out, be sure to see that good
24:42
recommendation. Next up then is Megan Well Sean took mine. I was gonna
24:48
say that the key the keynotes from Pedro and Sam will be up the day
24:52
of the Munich event. So if you weren't able to make them and you
24:56
really eager to see what our leaders have to say, that those will go
24:59
up on that day. But otherwise I think that any any presentation, I
25:03
think we just had great content across the board, at least from what I
25:07
saw in Boston. I mean, PayPal's presentation was great, Starbucks was a
25:10
lot of fun, Deloitte was really informative. The breakouts A mean before you
25:15
can't go wrong. I don't want to pick because I was involved in making
25:18
some of them. Go watch the Starbucks one because that I helped put together.
25:22
It's cheating if you pick them all. I don't want to pick favorites.
25:27
I don't want to pick favorite. Put me onsion to choose one of
25:32
the one's. Megan said, if you need to, they were all very
25:34
good. I agree, they're all very good. I think one of the
25:42
ones we all talked about feeling very motivated by was Tory's talk, And then
25:48
I think by comparison, it's also you know what are you looking for?
25:52
So if you want something that's very sort of step by step how to drive
25:57
momentum. I thought Guy Food Talk for that, and also great from PayPal
26:04
talking about implementing proactive IT tea. I think a lot of those are like
26:10
how to set useful goals, and I think that is something that a lot
26:15
of the dex's leaders really will will benefit from. Is you know hearing how
26:22
people go through that process? Yeah, let's go through the From a Deloitte
26:26
definite shout out there. Thank you everybody. It was lovely to see those
26:33
of you I was able to see in person. It was lovely to see
26:34
the listeners. As Tim said already, if you so, Tim mentioned our
26:40
talks he mentioned are talking to Robert and Darren from Honeywell in London and then
26:45
Darren from Honeywell and Zikki from Toyota in Boston. Those two shows, I
26:51
believe are the last two weeks of deck shows. So if you didn't hear
26:56
those, you want to hear them in an audio form, you can do
26:57
that, or you can find a video of our being on stage over on
27:03
Beyond Demand site, which you can find in the show notes and all of
27:06
the fantastic presentations mentioned here today apart from Granda and Forrester. You will be
27:11
able to find on those fantastic sites, so do check them out even if
27:15
you want to revisit it or hear any of it for the first time.
27:18
And thanks to the customers. Thanks to everybody who came. I'd like to
27:23
give a special fan shout out to Herbert Smith Free Hills customers I worked on
27:27
for their keynote in London. It was a really fantastic presentation. I recommend
27:32
everyone checks that one out also, And thanks to everybody for coming on the
27:37
show today. It was lovely to have a full house reality bites that was
27:42
so dreary terrible. To make sure that you never miss an episode, subscribe
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to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify your favorite podcast player, and if
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you're listening on Apple podcasts, make sure to leave a rating of the show.
27:56
Just tap the number of stars you think the podcast is. If you'd
28:00
like to learn more about how next Think can help me improve your digital employee
28:03
experience, head over to nextthink dot com. Thank you so much for listening.
28:08
Until next time,