Latest / Go Wildly Podcast / Ep. 14 | How the River Unlocks Courage: Grief, Growth, Purpose & Cool Nicknames

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Ep. 14 | How the River Unlocks Courage: Grief, Growth, Purpose & Cool Nicknames · Go Wildly Podcast

0:03
Welcome welcome into episode 14 of the Go Wildly podcast.
0:07
Can you believe it's already September?
0:09
I'm rolling back fresh from a vacation and Emily just wrapped
0:12
up her last working river trip of the season.
0:15
So basically we've both been out there living the Go Wildly
0:18
tagline instead of sitting behind a mic, which I love.
0:21
But don't worry, we didn't leave you hanging for long.
0:24
This episode is packed and ready like a cooler before a three day
0:28
weekend out in the wild. This episode is all Emily.
0:31
I'm not in it and she did a fabulous job of introducing our
0:35
guest in podcast recording. It's everything you want in a
0:39
hand off. So buckle up, sip on something
0:41
cold, and let's get into it. Hey, how's it going?
0:47
It's me, your Co host Emily for the Go Wildly podcast.
0:52
I'm here without Heather today, unfortunately, but that's just
0:56
the way things go sometimes. But I'm joined instead by my Co
1:02
host Jimmy, and we're here at the Rand access point.
1:09
On the Rogue. River, It's a beautiful day,
1:14
it's a Saturday, it's very hot. It's probably probably creeping
1:20
up into the 90s right now and we're going to go on a little
1:26
short little float today. We're going to be joined by my
1:28
friend Julia Conrad AKA Hammer, and she is a freaking powerhouse
1:37
of a human being. She's such a boss in every way,
1:43
shape and form. She would be so blushing so hard
1:47
if she was next to me right now hearing me talk about how
1:49
amazing she is. When I was coming up with a list
1:54
of potential guests for this podcast, she was in the 1st 10
1:58
people that I wrote down. Because she is so.
2:01
Phenomenal and inspiring and has been in the outdoor recreation
2:06
world professionally for so long and has done so many things and
2:12
is doing so many things. She is a competitive paddler.
2:16
She's a bad ass kayaker and kayak instructor.
2:20
She does ski patrol and helps to build rescue toboggans.
2:25
She owns an outfit herself with her husband.
2:29
She does wilderness therapy and teaches outdoor tourism and
2:35
recreation. She's worked with universities,
2:39
she's worked with summer camp. She's done so many amazing cool
2:42
things. And I'm, I'm super, super
2:46
honored to not just not just to get to call her my friend who
2:51
and also my colleague, but to be inspired by her and to see her
2:58
in the outdoor world as a bad ass woman, as a strong woman, to
3:03
see her inspire others to be outside and to develop skills
3:09
for being in the outdoors. And yeah, I'm just, I'm so
3:16
excited to share her with all of you today and to get to spend a
3:22
little bit time on the water with her and to get to hear more
3:28
about the amazing cool things that she does and has done and
3:32
how she how her life in the outdoors began and how it
3:36
continues to go. So I'm, I'm waiting here at the
3:44
Rand access point just downstream from Chair Rifle on
3:48
the Rogue River and she's going to, she's going to pick me up
3:52
here. I'm going to hitchhike a ride
3:55
downstream with her and then she should be here any minute.
4:01
We're just going to post up and take a little swim while we wait
4:06
for her. What do you think, Jim?
4:09
We're going to have a great, great time.
4:11
Do you need to do a little swim first?
4:15
I can let you do that. Jimmy's wearing his rough wear
4:18
dog. PFD.
4:20
Personal flotation dog. Oh, I see her.
4:25
There she is. See her skills in action.
4:28
What a beautiful day it is. Look at that blue sky.
4:32
Once you cool off in the water, it's very pleasant to be out
4:35
here. Otherwise, it's pretty fucking
4:36
hot. Clear blue sky as far as the eye
4:40
can see. There she.
4:44
Is. To know well her nickname is
4:49
Hammer, I'm going to refer to her as as Hammer, though her
4:52
government name is Julia. She is known to me as Hammer.
4:57
And if you know Hammer, you love her.
5:00
She's so awesome. Look at her navigating this
5:05
shredder. One paddle, one woman, one boat
5:13
with those skills. Look at those paddle skills.
5:21
Hey, Hammer, it's great. How are you?
5:27
You. Too.
5:30
I'm waiting for you. I'm so excited.
5:36
Okie dokie. I love paddling.
5:42
So freaking cool. I'm going to put a microphone on
5:45
you so that we can hear you. I'm going to clip it a little
5:51
shallow. I was wondering if you were
5:53
going to get. Stuck.
5:54
I was like. Don't get out.
5:56
Don't get. Out I saw you in the Eddie and I
5:58
was like. You might be on a rock.
6:01
I'm going to clip to your hat like mine because that seems to
6:04
be the most out of the way. Awesome.
6:09
Jimmy, would you like to get on? Good boy, good job.
6:16
I've got a little spot for you right there.
6:18
Good job buddy. Put.
6:20
This. Back here, tell me about this.
6:26
This. Watercraft we're in today.
6:29
Oh man, this is my shredder from the East Coast.
6:32
It's made in Ohio pile. They're handmade and I don't
6:37
know, it's kind of like the OG for the, for the East Coast
6:41
paddlers, lots of rockers, super light.
6:44
I love it because I can R1 or R2 and I'm able to get the craft
6:51
like to the shore and inflate it and roll it up.
6:53
And so, you know, unlike like a bigger raft where I might need
6:57
more people to help me carry it, I can pretty much manage this on
7:00
my own. That's so cool.
7:02
I know what R1 and R2 means, but can you?
7:05
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you tell other people what
7:07
it means? So R1R is wrapped.
7:10
So technically I guess this would be an S1 or S2 because
7:14
it's a shredder, but R1 would be one person paddling the raft by
7:18
themselves. R2 would be just two people
7:21
paddling the raft. And then you have like R4 where
7:23
you've got the four paddling positions.
7:26
Cool. It's and it can go up to any,
7:29
any number or When does it? When does it stop being an R and
7:33
it becomes something else, man. I mean, I guess you can have
7:38
those like 16 footers, like I've had up to like 12 people in a
7:42
huge raft of big water. So kind of funny, but not many
7:46
people are stoked. About it R128.
7:48
Yeah, yeah, that seems like a. Lot more complex logistics.
7:56
Thank you, Little River Hitchhike.
8:04
You just never know it's going to come floating by.
8:06
When you stand on the shore, you put out put out the right arm or
8:09
leg and then they come and get you.
8:11
Come on in. So cool.
8:14
Thank you for for taking us out. On this I will float today.
8:18
Got a nice little Poochie pupper platform right there.
8:22
He's. He moved right in I.
8:25
Love it, it doesn't take much for.
8:26
Him to, like we were saying, he's pretty anxious.
8:31
Aggressive isn't the right word, but he's not so stoked on people
8:35
or like moving situations. But as soon as he's on, he's
8:39
very assertive. And as soon as.
8:41
As soon as he's on a boat. He's.
8:42
Just. Chill he's I'm chilling.
8:45
As in life, Rivertime makes everything better.
8:48
It so does. Yeah, it really, really does.
8:52
Have you been on the river a lot recently?
8:54
Oh yeah, almost every. I mean, so we're what is this?
8:59
What month are we even in July? Middle of July I think.
9:01
I've been on the river almost every day since like the middle
9:05
of March. Holy shit.
9:07
Yeah, wow, Yeah. Get some miles.
9:11
Mostly what's been the ratio of personal fun river time and
9:16
active work river time? I I had a four day personal trip
9:20
on in Hells Canyon with some friends and I got to take some
9:26
friends out paddling yesterday but other than that it's been
9:30
mostly work well. Yeah.
9:32
Since March. Since.
9:33
March. What is what?
9:35
What is running rivers in March like?
9:38
Is it? Who?
9:39
What rivers are you running in March?
9:41
The Owahee and the lower Deschutes this year, it was
9:45
pretty pleasant and didn't even snow on us once, so that was
9:50
nice. Waters a little bit higher with
9:53
that spring runoff if that's where we're at.
9:55
So that definitely makes it more enjoyable.
9:57
I've been out there when it's lower and pushing a, you know, a
10:01
16 foot gear boat with 12 people's gear on it in like
10:05
shallow water is a little bit more technical.
10:07
It's like driving a freight train through a technical
10:10
course. So when they're more water and
10:13
it's covered, it's a it's a little bit easier.
10:16
Yeah, yeah. I mean weather, you know, we've
10:19
locked out because it's kind of like desert environment.
10:21
So it's still sunny and beautiful during the day, maybe
10:24
just a little layered up. And then nights get down until
10:27
like the the maybe high 30s we'll wake up with frost a
10:31
couple mornings. But that terrible.
10:33
Yeah, because we warm up during the day and manage to go to bed
10:35
early. And you can have campfires that
10:37
time of year, so you can warm up, yeah, by the fire and not be
10:41
shivering. Go from a like cold, cold wet
10:44
day to a cold wet night. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:47
And they're great because they're river expeditions with
10:49
students. And so I think like the first
10:52
ones that we do are like a week long and then we go into like 2
10:57
week long expeditions. So 1 is a really good way to get
11:00
those systems figured out to stay warm.
11:03
And it's, I think if you're going to work in the outdoors,
11:05
like figuring out how to keep yourself comfortable is a big
11:10
piece of it. And so it's a great way to like,
11:12
really be thoughtful about what we're wearing and how we're
11:14
taking care of ourselves so we can kind of take care of the
11:17
group and do the job while we're out there.
11:20
Making sure you are you like when you show up to those,
11:23
you're making sure you have all of your stuff.
11:25
How are you prepping students to make sure that they're not like
11:29
learning from their own mistakes in that regard?
11:31
Because that. Would be terrible.
11:33
Yeah. We want to set them up for
11:34
success. So typically each expedition has
11:37
a week of of classroom time where we're we're going over
11:41
skills. We'll do some swift water days,
11:43
but then we're like going through the packing list.
11:45
And sometimes 2, we'll even have them bring in their gear and go
11:49
through their gear with them and hand out the dry bags to make
11:52
sure that everything fits. And we, we know everybody has
11:56
everything that they need. Cool.
11:58
Yeah, that's good, good preparation time.
12:00
So they don't show up and like have a whole bunch of cotton and
12:05
yeah, then have to be told that they have to ditch it at the
12:07
pudding or and then they don't have the appropriate things
12:10
afterwards. Yeah.
12:11
Yeah, because it's not. I mean, these are pretty
12:14
wilderness, like inaccessible areas once we launch.
12:18
So once we're out there, we only have what we bring with us.
12:21
And so we want to make sure we have everything that we need.
12:23
Yeah, yeah. There's no, there's no going
12:25
back. Nobody.
12:27
Whatever is like shows up at the foot in, that's all you got.
12:30
You got to make it work. And how long do those trips?
12:32
Go for the first one is a week, so like a.
12:37
Week in classroom and then a week in wilderness.
12:39
Yeah, each one is a week in the classroom and then the second
12:42
one is like another week in the classroom and then two weeks on
12:44
the river. Where do the are they going to
12:48
school to be outdoor adventure leaders?
12:51
What's their like? How do they get into that
12:53
course? Yeah, for the most part, they
12:55
are tourism, recreation and adventure leadership majors.
13:00
So getting a degree and then from like, so that's the degree.
13:03
And then there's kind of 2 tracks they can go.
13:06
One of those is a business track and the other one is like an
13:10
outdoor leadership. Track cool.
13:14
Yeah, wow. And I can't think of any better
13:17
way. Like I think of all the, I'm
13:19
always about like the, you know, the transferable skills that
13:22
we're getting because I think a lot of people look at folks that
13:25
work in the outdoor industry, if they're not, you know, open to,
13:29
to what those folks do that kind of like golf.
13:31
But I think, right, if you think about it, we're getting teams of
13:34
people and putting them sometimes in like really
13:37
uncomfortable situations. And we always have that common
13:40
goal that we're working towards. And like it takes everybody to
13:44
work together as a team and understand the expectations.
13:48
And so like, and like we've been faced with some challenges where
13:52
like, hey, like conditions are changing.
13:55
This could be dangerous. We need to like figure out how
13:58
to get out of here and like and hike out.
14:01
And so being able to like recognize, like have good risk
14:04
management, get the team on board for something difficult,
14:08
figure out what you need to be able to do that and then execute
14:10
it. Like those are like lessons that
14:13
you can't really get anywhere else other than like living it.
14:16
And man, I mean, coming out of college, if you go into a job
14:20
interview and you get asked that question, like how do you deal
14:23
with adversity or tell me when you've had to deal with a
14:26
challenging time and or facilitate a group.
14:29
Man, if you can go to that experience and talk about what
14:31
it was like to do that because you're on a river trip, you're
14:34
not prepared to hike 10 miles up and out of the Canyon, you know,
14:39
not to mention how like isolating that that feels.
14:43
And then to make that switch and like dealing with the changes
14:47
and am I going to have food? Am I going to be safe?
14:49
Like there's a lot, a lot going on and you don't get that
14:53
experience by not going into those places.
14:56
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Those hard, those hard school
14:59
skills of, of the like the risk assessment, the risk management,
15:03
the materials, and then also how you communicate what's happening
15:07
to the people that you're with, to the people that you're going
15:10
to and keeping people calm and. Like.
15:14
The the treatment that you give that isn't medicine, that isn't
15:18
like a scalpel and a Band-Aid is words of comfort.
15:22
And how can you, how do they learn how to give that kind and
15:27
be able to to talk people through the situation without
15:31
actually living it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:34
Life lessons, Yeah. Super proud of them, yeah.
15:38
Do you do all your students make it through successfully?
15:41
Do you ever have people who like drop out part way, like it's too
15:44
hard, they can't handle it, they it's too much risk for them?
15:49
No, because dude, you're pretty. You're pretty committed once
15:53
you're in there. Like especially on the Oahe,
15:55
there's not really like and an option.
15:58
And I think recognizing that people are going to be
16:01
uncomfortable. Like that's our job as the
16:04
instructors to role model like how to help people navigate
16:09
those concerns and those anxieties so that they can be
16:12
successful. And they're all there because
16:15
they want to be there like they're, you know, their tourism
16:20
and adventure leadership majors. It may be the first time they've
16:23
been away from home for more than like a night or something
16:26
like that. And so we talked about that
16:28
during that classroom time so that we know kind of like where
16:33
folks are at, you know, like mentally and emotionally.
16:38
And I mean, they're A-Team, right?
16:39
And they're in it together. And so that that they also like
16:42
rely on their teammates to help them be more comfortable.
16:45
Or maybe we get to teach tips and tricks like, OK, well, if
16:49
not having a shower is like creating some discomfort for
16:53
you, let's talk about ways we can stay clean and be refreshed
16:58
and outdoors. Like let's just warm up some
17:00
water and we can set up an outdoor shower so that folks can
17:04
have that. Because I think working in this
17:06
industry to like, if you're guiding professionally, like
17:10
being able to offer that to folks that are going on these
17:13
experiences, because not everyone goes on these
17:16
experiences because they've done it.
17:18
Some of them it's very romantic. And you, you kind of have to be
17:21
able to provide those comforts. And as a as a guide, it's kind
17:26
of like a luxury that you can provide someone.
17:28
And there's like, it's kind of sweet to be in the middle of the
17:32
Grand Canyon having a warm shower on a sandy beach, like
17:37
among the Canyon walls or, you know, like majestic, if you need
17:42
a pee bucket, you need a pee bucket.
17:44
Like no biggie. Like we can do that.
17:46
Like, yeah. So there's, there's ways you can
17:48
bring some of those comforts to the outdoors.
17:50
And that's kind of that's why I love multi day rafting trips.
17:54
You know, it's not like love backpacking, but steak and
17:58
salmon and A and a cold bubbly is a lot nicer than like no
18:04
offense Mountain House and dehydrated vegetables, you know,
18:10
every night. And a three inch Paco pad versus
18:15
or just like a piece of foam. Totally.
18:17
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's why I.
18:20
Lean towards rafting. Also, it's like I like to be
18:24
comfortable. I like creature comforts.
18:26
Why? If I can be outside and have an
18:29
awesome outdoor experience I don't need, I don't feel the
18:32
need to really rough it. Sure, there's, you know, there's
18:36
different, different takeaways from different experiences, but
18:40
that that is the perk of a river trip is even if it's a heavy
18:44
boat, it still floats. Yeah.
18:46
You can bring so much more and have so much more comfort.
18:49
And yeah, how do you get, how do you get those comforts in like a
18:53
Backcountry backpacking experience?
18:56
Yeah. And you and you have a Yeah, you
18:59
shower. Totally you can have.
19:01
Whatever you want, you just have to be willing to carry it, carry
19:04
the load, right? Like, I mean, I've had students.
19:07
That's a metaphor for life. You have anything you want?
19:10
You just have to. Carry.
19:11
You're able to carry. The load like I've had students
19:14
carry in Dutch ovens, you know, because they were like really
19:18
excited about like we're going to be in the Backcountry where
19:21
granted, like I think it was like a four mile hike and rather
19:24
than like a 12 mile day. And you know, like that I might
19:27
be like, let's think about this. Like, you know, but like, you
19:30
know, you want to do the thing. You're a young college student,
19:35
like great, like because sometimes that's how you learn.
19:37
You don't need to do that all of the time, right?
19:41
Learn from, learn from your mistakes.
19:44
Sometimes it only takes months for some of those things.
19:47
But I mean, like I've made bread from scratch in a fry bake and
19:52
so or like pizza. And so that's a great option in
19:55
lieu of a Dutch oven using a fry bake.
19:57
And you can still do like those pizzas and the fresh bread and
20:01
do lessons and have someone keep like the dough bundle, like
20:05
underneath their shirt so it warms and it rises And it's like
20:08
cool and engaging and shows folks that like you can be more
20:12
creative than Mountain House I and I love.
20:17
I love eating well foods really important for me to like have
20:22
the energy and be able to do what I need to do.
20:25
And so I'll carry a little bit of extra weight with like some
20:29
like freshies, like some fresh vegetables or something like
20:32
that to put into the first couple nights, stir fries or
20:34
make something ahead of time and then freeze it or like I love
20:39
Mac and cheese with some veggies and some crushed up Cheez Its on
20:42
it. So you can keep things pretty
20:45
simple and basic and then just have little things to dress them
20:49
up and it's just more comforting and it just feels better, you
20:54
know, when you eat it. I think those showers are a
20:57
great example, great spots. Like I, I'm pretty into finding
21:03
like a good camping spot, you know, and setting it up.
21:07
So it's like homey and like welcoming because often times
21:09
we'll have like meetings or things like that.
21:11
And if folks need to come in, I don't, I want it to feel
21:14
welcoming and, you know, not weird or creepy or, yeah,
21:19
uncomfortable. And it's cozy, right?
21:21
It's like having a nice little bedroom with all the things that
21:23
you need. It's just, you know, not just
21:26
throwing them, although sometimes it is just throwing
21:28
them out on the ground. But yeah, like.
21:31
But nice to like have twinkly lights or a little a rug of some
21:35
sort and really tie the room together.
21:38
Just a little bit of sass. Yeah, yeah.
21:40
And like, I think folks want to spend lots of money on outdoor
21:46
gear. And I think that there's some
21:47
gear that you you need and you need to work that is worth the
21:50
money to spend. I also think there's materials
21:54
and things that you can get at thrift stores that work really
21:58
well that don't break the bank. So if you're out there working
22:01
in it and they get wrecked, it's not, you know, as big of a hit.
22:06
And you can get really fun and sassy with it, like merino
22:09
sweaters with like wild patterns or whatever.
22:12
And I think that helps kind of distract from the task at hand
22:16
sometimes and helps it be a little bit lighter and a little
22:19
bit more fun. Totally.
22:20
And like when people are having fun, I think they can like just
22:23
like open up and be more relaxed and more like present in the
22:27
environment in the space rather than like just being gripped and
22:30
always worrying about like, where am I going?
22:32
How much longer is it going to be like, oh, my pack's bothering
22:35
me here, right? It's just a.
22:37
It's just a. Yeah.
22:39
A lot of fun is a good distraction from the discomfort,
22:42
yeah. If you're having fun, anything's
22:44
really right. A lot more comfortable than
22:46
possible, yeah. And we're all in this suck
22:48
together. Yep, Yep, let's.
22:50
Embrace it. Yeah, let's.
22:51
Let's make fun of the suck a little bit.
22:54
We're gonna hike 10 miles out in her and Chaco was like, great.
22:59
How? Many.
23:00
Rocks, can we count? On the way.
23:03
Who can play some music and sing along?
23:06
That's a great segue to what to what are you wearing and what is
23:11
the the gear that you have with you today and your favorite
23:15
gear? Because you noticed my thrift
23:17
store sun shirt. Yes, yeah, I was.
23:19
I was with. Her when she bought this awesome
23:21
thrift store, so I'm sure and she was with me when I bought
23:23
this one. It was the same same same
23:25
shopping adventure. Successful, successful side
23:28
quest. Yeah, yeah, I just have this
23:32
super awesome jewel snap cotton shirt with this great design.
23:38
So again, fun, lightweight, couple bucks brings a little bit
23:42
of a little bit of style. I do like the the hoodies, but I
23:49
don't know, we're just kind of like in the in the SAS kind of
23:53
that's kind of theme right now there's.
23:56
So often people are told not to wear cotton on the river.
24:00
You are choosing to wear cotton on the river.
24:02
What makes the distinction of when it's encouraged to wear
24:05
cotton and versus not encouraged to wear cotton?
24:07
Because it is hot out here, so cotton will keep me cool when
24:13
it's and I get cold really easily.
24:15
So I often don't wear cotton unless it's in camp because it
24:18
feels better. But often times on the river
24:21
it'll be like something synthetic that's like quick
24:23
drying cotton. The fibers kind of they, they
24:27
retain water and suck the heat away from your body.
24:30
So it's harder to stay warm. But like I'm warm And so I'm
24:34
using that to my advantage to stay cool.
24:37
Whereas like polyesters and polypropylene, like those
24:44
synthetic materials and then like wool and fleece, when they
24:48
get wet, they, they like retain some of the heat from your body.
24:54
And so you, you stay a little bit warmer in those materials.
24:57
And so often times that's what I'll wear like underneath my dry
25:00
suit or or whatever. Cool so hot day.
25:04
Want to stay cool? Wear cotton.
25:07
Cold day. Wanna stay warm?
25:08
Wear polyester, fleece or wool. Yeah.
25:11
Cool. Yeah.
25:12
Thank you. Yeah, that's helpful.
25:14
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got those.
25:16
I got these. I don't often.
25:20
I'm bending over and shuffling and doing things often.
25:26
So I don't, I personally like to wear shorts when I'm on the
25:30
water just because I don't end up like flashing anyone or have
25:34
like a butt hanging out or offend anyone.
25:38
But I also have to wear these all the time.
25:40
So I tend to go for brightly colored or patterned things
25:43
because they're fun. So these are just yeah, some
25:46
piranha shorts that I I really enjoy and.
25:52
And then I got my my PFD. This is a new PFD for me.
25:57
And I've been looking to replace the the one that I had.
26:01
I had a a green jacket and it's kind of got a really big pocket.
26:05
And I think the way the that PFD personal flotation device is
26:11
designed to work is it's got this round cuff here and then
26:14
this other pocket with flotation up here.
26:17
And so if you have a longer torso, it's great because that
26:19
pocket sits above that cuff. But I have a short torso.
26:23
And so when I'm and trying to like climb into rafts or throw
26:26
boats or kayaks on a trailer, it like always like catches my PFD
26:31
and then I have like extra like juggling to do.
26:34
I like the pockets. I like some of the, the other
26:37
features, but it's just, it's just been a workaround for a
26:41
while. So I just went to this stole
26:43
quest and I, I really love it. It's got these cool adjustments
26:50
right here. So instead of just tightening
26:52
around my torso, I can pull down like top to bottom.
26:56
So that also helps like that other pocket would keep
26:59
loosening and like riding up, which means if I'm in the water,
27:03
it's kind of floating up here and my head's floating a little
27:05
bit lower. So this kind of holds all of
27:08
this in place in my chest where I want it to be.
27:11
And it's got this side entry zipper, so I don't have to like
27:18
put it on like over my head and wiggle in.
27:21
I can just slide right into it, which is it's nice.
27:26
It's like a little comfort thing.
27:28
And then I do a lot of kayak construction.
27:31
I do some swift water rescue stuff.
27:32
I'm on expeditions. And so being able to do rescues
27:37
and safety stuff is always a thing.
27:40
And so this is their rescue vest.
27:43
So it's got this extra belt to it that releases that way, like
27:48
if I have my tether on it or if I'm hooked into a line to do a
27:51
rescue or something like that. You never really want to be
27:55
permanently attached to anything on the water because it can act
27:58
like an anchor and sink you to the bottom.
28:01
So if I was to be like attached to a line or have my tether on a
28:06
boat, I can just release this buckle and come out of the whole
28:10
system. Cool, I.
28:12
I've always wondered how what makes it a rescue vest and how
28:16
it works. Like what are the added features
28:18
of a rescue vest and how they function?
28:21
I've never, I've never been in a position where I needed.
28:25
To wear one. Or needed to use one, or be with
28:28
somebody who needed to use it. So I've always kind of wondered
28:31
what what sets them apart. And it's got some other, it's
28:35
got some little other attachments here too.
28:37
So if you had to like sounds wild.
28:39
I don't know how often this happens, but if you had to like
28:42
repel off of a bridge to get down to a raft that had pinned
28:46
on one of the pylons, you can also make a harness on this as
28:51
well to like repair repel into something.
28:54
It's got these D rings on it that I don't know if you can
28:57
see, but they kind of have breaks in them.
28:59
OK, so like they're supposed to they're supposed to so that
29:02
their breakaway. So like when I have my tether on
29:05
here for kayaking, I'll just take the, it's got a carabiner
29:09
so I can hook it onto the grab loop on a kayak so I can just
29:12
hook it right here. And again, if that were to catch
29:14
anything, it would just break right off.
29:16
So I'm not attached to the system.
29:20
And maybe I just found a new pocket like here, maybe for a
29:25
knife, so it's like super accessible and I don't have to
29:28
open a pocket to get to it, but it's not in the way.
29:31
It's not going to catch on like other ropes and things like
29:34
that. I thought that was cool.
29:36
And then I think though, my favorite thing about this PFD,
29:42
it's got some cool pockets that are stretchy and then it's got
29:47
this big stretchy pocket that's kind of like a big koozie in
29:52
here, Betty. So it often splashes around a
29:55
lot and isn't not super stable right here.
29:57
I don't have a huge chest, but I can put it here and it's pretty
30:03
solid, right? That's a good.
30:04
Spot for your for your bubbly bevy.
30:06
I think it's really funny that they have one of those on our
30:08
rescue vest, but I'm not complaining.
30:11
I'll take it all day. I really like them.
30:13
I mean, everybody's got to have a cold drink no matter what's
30:17
happening, right? Yeah, and then I've got my knife
30:23
in here. Emerald, I think you'll love
30:25
this. I also have a harmonica that was
30:28
gifted to someone from you and that then got gifted to me.
30:32
I call her Siren. Because she plays.
30:34
Beautiful music and brings people in out on the river and
30:40
typically I've got some pulleys and Little Press 6 in here as
30:45
well and I have of course I have a whistle cuz that's what we
30:50
used to communicate. Have to have a whistle.
30:52
Yeah. Where was I?
30:53
I did a trip recently. I don't remember.
30:57
I guess maybe it was last week on 1st descent.
30:59
So we were making sure that every life jacket had a whistle.
31:01
Yeah. And I was like.
31:04
Yeah, I guess everybody should always have a whistle, even if
31:07
they're not going to be the ones that use it.
31:09
But yeah, hopefully they don't have to use it.
31:12
Yeah, that was that was a new, I feel like that was a new thing
31:15
to make sure that everybody had a whistle.
31:17
Yeah. And I actually think it's like
31:19
AI don't know if it's a Coast Guard requirement or something
31:23
like that, but it's a, it's a, it's a requirement.
31:26
Yeah, yeah. I think that's it's becoming a
31:28
standard whistle knife, DFD, all all in the same.
31:34
Yeah, that's so cool. I guess I should probably
31:36
provide a little harmonica context.
31:41
People are probably going to be wondering about that.
31:44
So my my dad was a wonderful harmonica player.
31:49
He played in multiple bands locally and started playing
31:52
harmonica when I think when he was in high school, maybe even
31:57
younger. He was just looking for, I
31:59
probably actually have a recording of him telling me why
32:03
he started playing harmonica. Because when, when he got sick
32:06
and he was beginning his dying process, I started recording
32:12
stories. Anytime he would start to tell
32:14
an interesting story, I'd pull out the, the voice memo and, and
32:18
start recording it. And sometimes I would prompt
32:21
like, Hey, tell me about this time in your life for why this
32:25
thing, why you have this thing. So I might have a story of him
32:29
talking about starting to play harmonica and where that came
32:31
about. But he was, yeah, he was a a
32:35
great harmonica player, always had a harmonica on him.
32:39
In every bag that he had, there was a harmonica, backpack,
32:43
briefcase, dry bag, always all in his life jacket, in his PFD.
32:51
And then he had like a satchel that was that he handcrafted
32:56
from leather that had a spot for every harmonica in like an
33:02
AABACADEFG. So he could always have the
33:06
whole, whatever they're called music, music terms are.
33:12
Failing me right now, Yeah, I said.
33:15
I don't. Offend the whole the whole
33:17
octave there. And harmonicas I guess kind of
33:22
go bad after a while, like they the reeds get too saturated and
33:27
saliva and they go out of tune. And you can't just tune a
33:31
harmonica, you have to replace the harmonica.
33:34
It does. And it doesn't make sense to
33:35
replace the parts in it if you're using so many harmonicas.
33:40
So he'd go through phases of harmonicas and when he even
33:47
before he died, there would just be boxes of old blown out
33:51
harmonicas around the house and he would start giving them away
33:55
to kids at shows. And we went to a, I think it was
34:01
before the women's marches started, but it was some kind of
34:04
like rally March through Grants Pass maybe for the library or
34:08
non-GMO food or something. And they wanted people to bring
34:11
noisemakers. And so we brought a huge box of
34:14
harmonicas and passed them out, probably passed out 100
34:18
harmonicas. And yet there were still
34:20
hundreds of harmonicas in the house and in the garage.
34:25
And so then when he died and I got invited to do my first first
34:30
Descents week. And it being the relation to
34:34
Sundance kayak school and cancer, it felt it felt really
34:40
important to come to that and share his story and also to
34:44
share a piece of a piece of him and that piece being harmonica.
34:49
So my first first Descents week I at the the last night and
34:54
they're like culmination celebration.
34:57
I told I like dosed people with stories about my dad throughout
35:01
the week. And then I gave a full, full
35:05
overview of who he was and and his impact and how important he
35:09
was and and still is. And then I gave everybody a
35:12
harmonica. And you still, and I still like
35:17
harmonicas. What a cool take away, What a
35:20
cool gift. And I know that person, there
35:23
was a prison on that program who now buys harmonicas and brings
35:28
them to programs and sits around and plays them, which is how I
35:31
got this one. But they are like totally
35:34
carrying on that tradition. Yeah, yeah, they picked it up
35:38
and really ran with it and started practicing and writing
35:42
out how to play. And yeah.
35:45
That's so cool. What a sweet little honor to
35:49
carry on, to feel inspired by and having not even known him,
35:53
but not known my dad, but to feel connected and feel
35:57
compelled to keep the music playing.
36:00
Yeah. And I do still get messages from
36:02
participants from that first week saying, like, still have my
36:05
harmonica and play it sometimes. But mostly, mostly they just
36:10
like let it sit on a shelf and. And think of me.
36:14
That's still sweet. Yeah, yeah, it still.
36:16
Feels like a great honor and it's, it's something that I've
36:20
wanted to continue in my first Descents weeks, but it, it feels
36:26
like a little bit more in the distance since it isn't so
36:30
fresh. His passing, my first, first
36:32
Descents week was like 6 months after he passed and it was still
36:37
very, very, very fresh. And yeah, he died in October and
36:42
then I was at first Descents in July, I guess.
36:45
So a little more than six months, but it was like it was
36:50
within the first year. And so it was really, really
36:52
fresh and, and, and it was my first time doing the first
36:58
descents week with Sundance Kayak school and I was raw.
37:04
They tended to do that. So were you.
37:06
And you were a volunteer? I was.
37:09
On Sundance I was Sundance was my first time as instructor.
37:13
Okay, I feel like I falsely fall under the instructor category
37:18
because I'm not. I'm not instructing kayaking.
37:21
Maybe I'm instructing a little bit around life, but I'm.
37:25
You're like the conductor of Stoke is like really what you
37:29
are? Yeah.
37:33
Man, how was that being on your first?
37:37
Because it's you know, I feel like people hear about it, but
37:39
then to experience it is like something else.
37:43
But then to experience it and have your own personal
37:48
connection with it too is like a whole like another level.
37:53
So like, how was that for you? It was.
37:56
Definitely raw. Raw is probably the primary
37:59
feeling. I cried every day and I I wasn't
38:09
sure how exactly to be in the space as an instructor, as a
38:14
like a staff member and wanting to respect the the container for
38:20
the participants. Yeah.
38:23
And Gnomeo really empowered me to lean in.
38:29
And I'm pretty sure he had briefed the lead staff.
38:33
It was postal and totes. Oh my gosh.
38:37
You could not be in better hands.
38:40
Yeah, Oh my gosh. So I think that.
38:42
He. He.
38:42
Briefed people on who I was and what my situation was, what my
38:47
relationship with with Sundance and with the River House was and
38:52
what it was likely to mean to me.
38:55
So I arrived into a space that was for sure ready for me to
39:01
completely fall apart and and ready to like help build me back
39:07
up. And so in fire circle every
39:11
night I have to talk. I can't not talk.
39:16
So and once I started, it's like.
39:20
It. Became very clear to me how me
39:23
sharing myself and sharing my story and my relationship and
39:29
also the reality that people can die from cancer.
39:34
Like everybody, all the participants are alive and well
39:37
and experiencing cancer. But being alive and well with
39:41
cancer isn't always the reality. And I was really nervous about
39:44
that, of bringing in like the death reality of cancer.
39:51
Granted, we're with young people.
39:53
He was in his 70s, so maybe sometimes that's a little more
39:57
acceptable that he was older, who's still too young.
40:01
But I, yeah, I just really leaned into, OK, here's a here's
40:08
a question and I got something to say and me being Uber
40:13
vulnerable and crying in front of everybody every day.
40:19
I think. Really, really did allow people
40:22
give them that permission and that example that it's OK to
40:25
really feel, feel through these feelings and feel the fragility
40:32
of life and also the importance of living, being present in
40:38
every moment and living a life full of life and on terms that
40:45
make you come when you do come to the end, you don't have
40:49
regrets. And being able to demonstrate
40:56
the things that he had taught me about life and being on the
41:00
river and be able to show those to other people and have them
41:07
feel inspired and also be able to tell them alike.
41:10
Yeah, I've been scared on the river, too.
41:12
And like, I'm not in, I'm not in the kayak with you guys.
41:16
Like you guys are doing something that I don't do.
41:18
And I'm so impressed with you. Like the mutual impressiveness.
41:23
Was. A really cool thing and the the
41:26
vulnerability and just the like the rawness that I was able to
41:32
bring into people. People often show up into the
41:36
first descent space being a little closed off and unsure,
41:41
and sometimes it can take some time to crack crack open and me
41:47
being fully cracked. Open.
41:51
Was like, OK, nobody, nobody held back.
41:54
And it was a very, very emotional week.
41:57
And I remember like the first I was also going through, I wasn't
42:03
just grieving my dad and and the cancer.
42:07
I was also a year, just over a year into being divorced and had
42:15
grief related to that and was going through some awful shit
42:22
with my brother and the like division.
42:26
Yeah, we're back. Battery.
42:28
Battery. Yeah.
42:30
I was going through some deep, heavy shit with my brother and
42:35
the division of my dad's estate and the roles that we were
42:40
assigned and the the upset of that.
42:47
I was in charge of everything and I had, I had the power and
42:52
the responsibility. And as the younger sibling and
42:58
my brother was not too keen on that.
43:00
And we were, we were living together in our father's home
43:05
and my brother moved from Paris to be there for the end.
43:13
And so he uprooted his life, moved his wife, their dog, their
43:18
two cats from Paris, France to Grants Pass, OR to be there for
43:26
the end of dad's life and then to to stay ultimately.
43:29
And while I had gone through a divorce, uprooted my life, moved
43:36
in with my dad, cared for him to the end.
43:40
And now my brother and I, who haven't hadn't seen each other
43:43
in basically 10 years and had really never had a good
43:47
relationship, are now living together, grieving together,
43:51
trying to build new life together, but also individually
43:56
and getting away from that and being able to be present in
44:02
first a sense and be completely stripped apart and to be
44:08
received lovingly and wholly holistically.
44:14
Not but even, but even maybe a little bit of that.
44:18
There was a little bit of like godliness to the whole
44:22
experience and to how I felt like people loved on me during
44:28
that week and really brought me back to life and.
44:35
Like. Brought me to a life that I
44:37
didn't know existed at all and definitely didn't know existed
44:42
within me and it it saved me for sure.
44:47
That's beautiful, yeah. I think, I think it's important
44:50
to like show up authentically as yourself.
44:55
Like even if you're going through something like, I think
44:58
we balance that sometimes with remembering that like, right?
45:01
Like it's all it is all about the participants, but it's OK to
45:06
be vulnerable because it like opens up the door.
45:09
It's like, it's like a welcome mat for like to other people to
45:13
see that it's OK, right? Like if you're just trying to be
45:15
stoic, other people are going to be like afraid to do that.
45:19
And that grief thing like, like everyone's life has changed and
45:25
they're experiencing some type of grief, right?
45:28
Like whether it's like how their bodies are functioning or like
45:34
having all of their pieces, you know, like, or like their life
45:39
changing or like there's just, there's just so like there's
45:45
themes that come out every week and I can see grief being like a
45:51
big theme. And I can't imagine like a
45:53
better like, place to, to work through something like that.
45:56
Like this One thing that I love about the FT community, like we
45:59
always talk about it like participants thank us for like
46:04
being kind and like, like being patient because like, Oh my
46:08
gosh, like, you mean you don't want to flip upside down and
46:11
stuck in a piece of plastic with your head underwater.
46:13
I'm not not able to breathe. Like what do you I don't get it,
46:15
You know what I mean? You don't want to do that.
46:17
Look forward to that. I don't get it.
46:18
What's your problem? You know, like, but we're like,
46:20
you know, like we do the dishes, we make these amazing meals.
46:24
We're like, we check in. We, you know, but it's not
46:29
anything. It's like it hurts my heart
46:30
because it's nothing that shouldn't be happening like in
46:33
people's lives, like every day. Like, where have we like,
46:38
forgotten just to take time to let someone know that they're
46:43
like, important and they and they matter, right?
46:46
It's not. That they don't have to do
46:48
anything extra they don't have they don't have to flip upside
46:51
down in the kayak or not flip upside down in the kayak to be
46:56
worthy and. They're gonna get, they're gonna
46:57
get the same treatment and they're gonna, they're gonna,
47:01
they're going to feel seen, you know, like we're going to have
47:03
conversations, we're going to laugh.
47:04
They're going to come along. They're going to be part of the
47:06
group. Like no matter what that looks
47:08
like. I don't know, like if it's just
47:10
like an inability to like meet people where they're at or just
47:13
such a like, like centered focus that like you forget that we're
47:18
existing with these other folks. But, man, when folks are moved
47:22
to tears because, like, someone asked them, like, how their day
47:26
was and made sure that they didn't have, you know, peanuts
47:30
in their sandwich because they're like, 'cause they're
47:33
allergic. Like, man, we're just being,
47:35
we're just meeting like basic, like human consideration.
47:39
Yeah, yeah. Whereas not anything special.
47:43
So, yeah, like I like that community, like that everyone's
47:46
welcome, like exactly how you are and like, yeah.
47:51
And you can talk about it like some of the conversations and
47:53
like things that are like normalized.
47:56
And I don't know, it's a really beautiful space to be able to
47:59
witness. Yeah, 100%.
48:00
Like last week when I think it was Maps said that the week had
48:08
shown her that those basic things of just being herself was
48:14
enough. And it helped her to realize
48:16
that the people that she thought were her people and her life
48:20
probably weren't because she wasn't able to just show up as
48:25
herself. She was having to walk on egg
48:27
shells and make all these accommodations and and apologize
48:31
for for who she was and how she was feeling and what she was
48:33
going through. And to be able to be in a space
48:36
that she didn't know anybody when she showed up.
48:38
And she was welcomed with literally open arms and love and
48:44
was able to connect with people on a deep soul level within 5
48:51
minutes and be seen and loved and appreciated for just being
48:55
there and existing. Like has is making her
48:58
completely re evaluate the people in her life and what's
49:01
important and how you choose people and how setting a
49:05
boundary when she said, you know, I'm I'm not ready to get
49:10
back in the kayak. I want to sit on the raft and we
49:13
said OK, great. And it wasn't, it wasn't a
49:16
fight, it wasn't an argument. It wasn't pushed back on.
49:19
It was just accepted and allowed.
49:21
Like made her realize how how boundaries are supposed to be
49:27
received and. Respected.
49:28
Yeah. Like, great.
49:30
Yeah. Cool.
49:31
Yeah, yeah. How is Japan Snaps is just so
49:36
sweet and caring and like a clear communicator and just like
49:41
was always affirming like it's OK, like I trust you like like
49:46
how could you not just like accept her for who she was like.
49:53
Yeah. Well, yeah.
49:54
What? Other shit is going on in your
49:56
life, the people that you wouldn't.
49:58
Accept. Love this person.
50:00
Yeah, yeah. Just be.
50:02
Just be good. Don't.
50:03
Just don't. Don't be a jerk.
50:06
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So first Ascents, one of the I
50:11
don't know how it like how did it come to be in first Ascents
50:14
that everybody has a nickname? Oh, from the very first program
50:18
ever, Yeah, like 25 years ago. Whatever I as as the lore has
50:25
been passed down as I ever heard it.
50:29
You know, one of the like their first program participants
50:32
showed up and there was like maybe three people with like the
50:38
same name, two or three people with the same name, you know,
50:41
like 3 Pauls on the trip, which was like a little confusing.
50:44
And so everyone decided to just use nicknames so that it wasn't
50:48
confusing and instead of just having like the Paul one.
50:50
Paul 2. Paul 3.
50:52
Nicknames like everybody had nicknames and it just like
50:56
worked and it was fun and maybe just opened up a space where
51:00
people could like create their own persona.
51:03
I don't know if it started, I don't know if that had happened.
51:05
And they're like, this is cool, let's continue.
51:08
But it was it was cool enough that on the next program they
51:13
just like had everybody pick nicknames and it's been
51:16
happening on every program since.
51:18
I think it's a really cool part of the FD experience and story.
51:24
Like, I mean, it is, it is a tradition that has happened
51:27
since day one. And one thing that I love about
51:30
First Descents is just this storytelling of first descent
51:35
and what they do is like pretty, pretty strong.
51:39
And that's that's a piece of it. But I think what I love most
51:43
about it is that, you know, folks are like held to like all
51:47
of these things when they come in, Like how do people see me?
51:50
People don't think I can do these things because I have like
51:54
cancer or Ms. or like, or I'm a care provider.
51:58
Like I have to be stoic. You know, people come in with
52:01
all these perceptions that other people have put on them.
52:05
And so to just really, it's like Halloween, you know, it's like
52:11
bringing like Halloween and you know, where you can be whoever
52:15
you want to be or whatever you want to be for a week.
52:18
And I think that's really liberating for some folks.
52:22
And I think it helps folks like see that they can exemplify that
52:28
persona. Totally, completely agree with
52:31
that. And I, I really lean into that
52:33
when I'm coaching or whatever I'm doing with people is that
52:38
like the person that they're becoming in this space is in
52:42
them and we're just, we're just making it available to them and
52:47
it's a person that they can tap into wherever they are.
52:50
And that's why I when I come in, I'm like.
52:53
I. MRO is my FD nickname.
52:57
It's a nickname actually that my dad gave me and I brought it
53:00
into FD and I have been able over the years to embody MRO in
53:09
all that I do. And the person that I found my
53:14
first week at FD, it was like. This is who.
53:17
This is who I want to. Be all the time.
53:19
This is where I feel the most alive and the most loved and the
53:23
most loving and the most vibrant and joyful.
53:26
How can I? How can I be there?
53:29
How can I be in the FD mindset even if I'm not on an, an FD
53:37
experience? And so I've worked really hard
53:41
to embody MRO wherever I am. And I feel like now I'm, I'm
53:46
definitely out of space for like I am MRO and MRO is me.
53:52
Yeah, there's parts. There are still parts of Emily
53:56
that I keep separate from MRO. Like when I was driving Wild
53:59
Bill to the airport yesterday, somebody was driving slow in
54:02
front of me and then I passed him and he was like, whoa, what
54:07
was that look that you gave that person?
54:09
I was like, that was a little bit of Emily.
54:13
You. Shouldn't you shouldn't see
54:15
Emily, You should only see Emily.
54:16
But that was a little bit of Emily, a little like death glare
54:21
that I gave that driving slow person.
54:24
And yeah, I I really do try to lean into that with other people
54:28
too of like this. Who who you're accessing here is
54:32
always there. Just because you leave the river
54:36
doesn't mean that the river has left you.
54:38
You can always come back to when you're in a hard situation.
54:42
You're you have a challenge in front of you.
54:44
Well, what? What would?
54:47
Backseat. Do what would maps do?
54:49
What would MO do? Like bring bring that person
54:54
that you've tapped into in this space to all those other things
54:59
into your life and know that you can do anything because you
55:02
learned how to kayak in four days and you like made friends
55:05
with people that you never knew before this.
55:09
And now you have you have all of this.
55:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it.
55:14
And I think it's also it's very true to river world too.
55:18
I grew up with a lot of river people that I met.
55:22
I knew them all my life as their nickname and it wasn't until I
55:25
was an adult that I learned what their government names.
55:30
I was like. It's like when you realize your
55:31
dad's name isn't Dad. Yeah, yeah.
55:34
I was like, oh, his name's not Snakeskin.
55:38
Her name's not Shortcut. What is this?
55:41
I don't. I don't like this.
55:42
Yeah, I don't like. This I don't.
55:43
I don't want to call her Patty. Like.
55:45
No, her name's shortcut. That's what it has to be.
55:48
That's the only way. It's.
55:51
Yeah, I think it really is a nice way to to remember that we,
55:56
we have multitudes within us. We're not just the things other
55:59
people have put on us. We're so much more, more
56:02
whatever we want to be. Yeah.
56:04
Yeah, it's funny. Funny that you need an
56:07
invitation to remember that, but whatever.
56:10
Like when I think right, and everyone's in that space.
56:12
And so we're all just being our best caring selves because I
56:17
don't know, you can, right? Like, I think it's hard.
56:20
I think it's hard to try to be your best authentic self for
56:24
some folks because like, right, we just like we want to be liked
56:27
or we want to be accepted or we don't know how it's going to
56:29
sound or like whatever it may be.
56:32
I think like that can be tough. And so I do think we also create
56:35
a really good space where people can show up as they are and they
56:39
are like, it's like the expectation is that like and you
56:42
will be like accepted so you can.
56:46
Unless you're a jerk. But honestly, like.
56:48
Probably if somebody showed up and they were kind of a jerk.
56:52
We'd we'd. Just like fight that with love
56:54
and Yep, then turn it around. So like, sure, if you need to
56:59
show up and be a little jerky, like we'll, we'll work through
57:03
that with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
57:06
Let's let's stabilize and I'll put this on shore.
57:10
Yeah. How's your arm?
57:10
Hold it. I was going.
57:11
To say I was just thinking about them, it's your arm getting
57:13
tired. It's getting.
57:14
A little tired, but mostly it's like getting floppy.
57:16
I'm like, really? I love that we've gotten on it.
57:20
I don't even think we've taken like one stroke.
57:23
We've like, yeah, just been floating.
57:25
Well. That's great.
57:27
There's nowhere. Really to?
57:29
Go except for right here. I mean, yeah, you have a paddle
57:31
to get us over to here a little bit.
57:33
But really, I think we just kind of, yeah, just.
57:35
Floated in. That's great.
57:38
Cool. Let's dive into a little bit
57:41
more about your background and where you came from, how you
57:46
ended up here. All right, I mean, it's been
57:51
it's been a it's been a while. Like I've been, I've been I'm no
57:56
spring chicken. I've been around for a while.
57:58
I've probably been working in the after definitely like over
58:01
20 years started out. I went to school for recreation
58:07
and park administration. So it's kind of where I, you
58:09
know, found my love for doing like this kind of thing.
58:12
Like I remember the moment, like I really wanted to be, I went to
58:17
a vo tech high school and I was in the nursing program.
58:20
So I graduated high school with my with my nursing license, but
58:25
I had no interest in being a nurse at that time.
58:30
How did that work that you were like I've never heard of?
58:33
That in high school, so like after so my sophomore junior.
58:40
So my sophomore and junior year, our classes were set up in like
58:44
blocks and so I would spend a couple weeks in the hospital
58:50
working and then I would spend a couple weeks in the classroom
58:53
and I guess that went through my senior year too.
58:55
So we were doing our clinical rotations and we had our nursing
58:59
classes and then we had like our English classes and but like it
59:04
was a vo tech high school so everyone was kind of like on
59:06
that schedule. So like the English classes, I
59:09
assume would like flip flop so that everybody could get their
59:12
English teaching, but it was all in these blocks because you'd be
59:15
like in the hospital for like a week or two and then you'd have
59:18
like your nursing classes and then you'd have your academics.
59:22
So like. Interesting this was on the East
59:24
Coast. Was on the East Coast.
59:25
Yep, in Delaware. Wow, great state of Delaware,
59:29
yeah. And so you get all your clinical
59:31
time in, you take your boards, you get your nursing license.
59:36
I was really good. I went to like national
59:38
competitions. I came in like third in the
59:39
nation and nursing damn. But like, I just didn't, I have
59:45
a different opinion now, but I was like an angsty 17 year old,
59:49
you know, And like I, I saw some things that I didn't love that I
59:53
didn't understand in the medical industry.
59:55
And I also like, it was hard being around like sick people.
59:59
I don't think I had the skills to be like compassionate.
1:00:04
I don't have the skills that I have now, you know, And so I was
1:00:08
like, had to go to college, didn't really want to go to
1:00:11
college. So I was like, I loved anatomy
1:00:13
and Physiology. So I wanted to go into physical
1:00:17
therapy because I wanted to be around.
1:00:19
People that wanted to be healthy and active, which isn't really
1:00:24
what physical therapists do. Yeah.
1:00:28
I mean, they do, but the population is still, you know,
1:00:32
there's, there was a lot of like older like folks that like
1:00:36
weren't just weren't like what was calling to me and I just
1:00:44
happened. I was super competitive, like
1:00:46
you need it. I had, there were folks that had
1:00:48
like 3.8 that weren't getting accepted into like the second
1:00:52
part of the physical therapy program.
1:00:55
You start off in like PT studies and then you have to get
1:00:57
accepted into the PT program. And so I just thought like maybe
1:01:02
if I took classes within it was like nursing, recreation and
1:01:07
Health Sciences or something like that, was the college like
1:01:10
I'll I'll get. My nursing, recreation, and
1:01:14
Health Sciences. Something like that.
1:01:15
It was like tied in with like some weird, yeah.
1:01:19
But anyway, so I'm like, well, my GPA is high within the
1:01:23
college I'm trying to get into. Like maybe that will, that would
1:01:27
put me a foot above someone else that has like the same overall
1:01:30
GPA as me. And I took an outdoor leadership
1:01:35
class and by the, and I remember at one point the professor came
1:01:38
up to me and he was like, you know, you should think about
1:01:41
doing this. Like we were going into high
1:01:42
schools and working with a mentorship program in the high
1:01:44
schools. And I was just kind of like, oh,
1:01:46
no, no, no, no, like I have a plan.
1:01:49
Like, I know what I want to do. And by the time we had like the
1:01:54
big culmination, there was this one girl who like didn't want
1:01:58
anything to do with any of the activities we had been doing
1:02:02
every week going into the high school.
1:02:03
Like she, her stomach hurt. She like wanted to fix her
1:02:06
makeup. She like didn't bring the right
1:02:08
shoes. She was always trying to get out
1:02:10
of the team building activities we were doing.
1:02:12
And so the group came to our college campus where we had a
1:02:15
high rope scores, and we have this element called the Giant's
1:02:18
Ladder. So it's like 30 feet in the air.
1:02:22
And there's these big railroad ties that are the rungs of the
1:02:25
ladder. And they start off like maybe 5
1:02:27
feet apart, but then the next one is like 6 or 7 feet apart.
1:02:31
And then the next one's like further apart.
1:02:33
So they get, you need to work as a team to climb this ladder
1:02:37
because the rungs are so far apart.
1:02:39
And so, you know, you're in a harness and you've got ropes and
1:02:41
you've got teams on belay to belay you, and you're all
1:02:43
working together to do this. And this girl was part of this
1:02:47
team of three and they got to like the second rung and her
1:02:50
team wanted to give up and they didn't want to go any further.
1:02:53
And this girl who didn't have any interest in doing anything
1:02:57
the whole time was like, we, I want to go like, I want to do
1:03:02
this, like we can do it. And her team was like, no way.
1:03:04
So we're like, well, you need to like work it out.
1:03:06
And so they decided that this girl could climb to the top and
1:03:09
they were just going to cheer and support her on.
1:03:11
This. This chick got all the way to
1:03:14
the top and the giant ladder by herself and then wanted to
1:03:19
climb, you know, because then you have like the top, you know,
1:03:22
beam with all the like attachments for the ropes and
1:03:25
everything. She wanted to go like up and
1:03:27
over that. Like she was like, it's like, I
1:03:30
don't know where this came from. So like, she comes down and then
1:03:33
at the end of the day, we circle everybody up and we do like a
1:03:36
little, you know, like little debrief on the day.
1:03:39
And this girl is like, like no one in my family has gone to
1:03:43
college. Like some of them, like most of
1:03:46
them haven't even finished high school.
1:03:48
She's like, I didn't think I was capable of doing those things.
1:03:52
She's like, but if I can do that like I can, I can stay in
1:03:57
school, like I can go to college.
1:03:58
He's like, I'm going to go talk to my my college counselor and
1:04:02
figure out like what I need to do so I can start taking those
1:04:05
steps because like I feel like I can do it now.
1:04:07
And I was like, done, sold. That's what I want.
1:04:11
I want to make people feel like that.
1:04:13
Where do you sign me up? That like I didn't think I could
1:04:17
do anything and I did this one thing and now I can do anything.
1:04:22
Whoa, right. Like Dang, I'm like Yep, Yep,
1:04:25
yes, please. And I think that's been like, if
1:04:28
there's been like one driving force, like I love goals to like
1:04:31
keep me on track. Like that's been consistently
1:04:34
like applying for jobs and on my resume or things that I decide
1:04:39
to take on. It's always been like, I want to
1:04:42
do something that has like that empowers other people or has a
1:04:46
positive impact. That's always mine.
1:04:49
You know my filter. 100% the same.
1:04:52
And so that's kind of driven where I've gone after college.
1:04:56
I went to the Poconos in Pennsylvania and I started off
1:05:02
as a river guide and ended up being the river manager for a
1:05:06
large rafting outfitter fitter for like 4 years, four or five
1:05:10
years. And it was pretty big.
1:05:12
We were putting like 2400 people on the river in a day.
1:05:16
I had 300 guides on my roster. And so I would have like 100
1:05:20
guides show up and work for me in a in a day.
1:05:25
You know, there was like 18 buses.
1:05:26
There was three different put insurance.
1:05:28
We had 462 rafts and like almost half of them would get like
1:05:33
recycled to do like a second trip in a day.
1:05:36
Like it was a, it was a, it was a pretty major, that's a huge
1:05:40
operation. In comparison to like here on
1:05:45
the Rogue, maybe an Outfitters putting out 50 people on the
1:05:51
water in a day. Yeah, with. 6 to 10 rafts.
1:05:56
Yeah. To do 2400 people in a day.
1:06:00
Yeah, we would have like 20 to 2625 rafts, like on a trip.
1:06:10
Yeah, Wow. That's a lot of logistics.
1:06:12
That's a. Lot of logistics and like right?
1:06:15
Kind of like very well balanced logistics.
1:06:19
So if like one piece falls out, the whole tower starts to shake.
1:06:27
And so being able to like problem solve really quickly,
1:06:30
like speak directly, understand where all of the pieces are.
1:06:36
Have people on board. Get your guide teams like on
1:06:39
board so they can work well and get the job done together.
1:06:41
Like it was get people on buses to get them out so the next
1:06:45
group can get into debrief. Like people are late filling up
1:06:48
those gaps so that we don't end up because if there's you can't
1:06:51
just put the same 120 people on the trip because if some show up
1:06:54
late, you can't hold up the whole show.
1:06:56
So but you can't not fill those spots otherwise you end up with
1:06:59
extra people at the end of the day.
1:07:01
Like yeah, it was it was a lot. And I think I was like 2425, but
1:07:10
I think it was it really catapult it like where I could
1:07:16
go and what I could do in the industry because I had to handle
1:07:22
so much that. And when you walk into an
1:07:24
interview and again, someone's like, well, tell me a time where
1:07:28
you've had to deal with a challenge, you've had to think
1:07:31
quick on your feet. And it's like, well, this one
1:07:34
time we were overbooked and we had 200 Wonka.
1:07:39
And I had to like figure out like how to get all these people
1:07:41
in the water and get on like safely with the resources that I
1:07:44
had. Or like the river came up
1:07:46
overnight and now we were like at flood stage, but we had like
1:07:49
1000 people coming to go rafting and they're coming from New York
1:07:52
City. And how do I know, like what
1:07:55
we're going to do and what we're going to change to and switch up
1:07:57
the formats and get that done and communicate it.
1:08:01
So definitely like get 100 people to work like a well, well
1:08:06
machine. Yeah, it was just great
1:08:09
experience that kind of let me go anywhere.
1:08:11
And after that, I did that for like 4 or five years and I just
1:08:14
needed a break. And so I saw this job posting
1:08:18
for like a backpacking guide and I was like I.
1:08:20
Love. Backpacking.
1:08:22
This is going to be great. I'll just do it for like a year
1:08:26
and it was like a wilderness therapy program.
1:08:29
OK, which? Is a little bit more than like
1:08:32
backpacking. You're definitely dealing with
1:08:33
like behavioral issues and things like that, but did that
1:08:38
for about about four years. And so we'd be in the field for
1:08:42
like 31 days at a time and with a group of students doing that.
1:08:48
Yeah. And then?
1:08:50
And they're coming from adverse backgrounds and yeah, trauma.
1:08:56
And this is a healing, a very intentional healing therapeutic
1:09:00
experience. I was more like court appointed.
1:09:05
OK, OK. Yeah, they're.
1:09:07
Forced there. Yeah.
1:09:09
And so we definitely approached it through like a trauma based
1:09:12
lens and we did the best we could to be like a hands off
1:09:16
facility. So if we were in a situation
1:09:18
where someone was a threat to themselves or others, like if we
1:09:22
were putting them in a restraint, like if the behavior
1:09:26
didn't change and we were in that situation often like they
1:09:32
weren't a good fit for a program and we would take them out.
1:09:34
And I know they've these programs kind of have like a, a
1:09:38
shadow of them right now. But like this program, was it
1:09:42
like the students were all court appointed?
1:09:46
We went and we sat down with the potential students and did an
1:09:52
interview with them to make sure it was like a right fit and to
1:09:55
get a feel for like what techniques work for them, like
1:09:58
what their background was like. It was all pretty thoughtful.
1:10:02
Like we weren't going into people's homes in the middle of
1:10:05
the night and snatching anyone out and then just dropping them
1:10:09
in the wilderness. Like it was like AI mean they
1:10:11
did get there and we'd, you know, take take their belongings
1:10:15
and issue them new things and we'd be sleeping outside the
1:10:18
first night. It was a short hike right from
1:10:20
campus. Like we kind of structured the
1:10:23
whole thing so that they were like learning and they got to
1:10:26
stay in their cohort. There wasn't a lot of like,
1:10:29
there wasn't changing in and out of like people or staff.
1:10:34
Yeah. And just kind of that just got
1:10:38
pretty, it got pretty heavy. I think most people it's under a
1:10:43
year is like the the typical like longevity for someone in
1:10:47
that career. And so doing it for, for four
1:10:50
years, it got to be pretty taxing.
1:10:53
And we started to just cause of legislation and things, we
1:10:56
started to get a more challenging population to work
1:10:59
with. And I got to the point where
1:11:01
like I was put in a position where I was scared for my safety
1:11:07
and I didn't feel good about that.
1:11:09
And I wasn't like Hearn or recognized.
1:11:12
And I was pretty much told to like man up about it.
1:11:17
So it was like a no brainer. Yeah.
1:11:20
Was it? Was it year round work too?
1:11:22
Or was it? Seasonal.
1:11:23
Yep, it was great. They were also tied to like
1:11:26
foster homes and assisted living homes.
1:11:29
So like I worked so many hours in a week that I was full time.
1:11:35
So like I had all of the same benefits that a full time worker
1:11:40
in any of the other departments would get.
1:11:42
And so I got great pay. I got overtime.
1:11:45
I got 16 hours a day. You know, unless I was like
1:11:50
responding to something, then I would get additional hours.
1:11:53
After 40 hours, I was in overtime.
1:11:56
So after like 3 days, three days, I was in overtime.
1:11:59
For the the rest of the the time, you know, I got great
1:12:04
health benefits. I got tuition reimbursement.
1:12:09
Yeah. But still, it being year round,
1:12:12
you don't get a break from that intensity and pressure.
1:12:16
Like I'd imagine that were it seasonal, Like it's just three
1:12:20
months over the summer where you're in these intensive
1:12:23
wilderness therapy trips, but then nine months of the year
1:12:27
you're doing something else that isn't so emotionally taxing, but
1:12:31
didn't really never get a break from that.
1:12:33
That's even more impressive that you were able to do that for
1:12:35
four years. Yeah.
1:12:36
And it was pretty, I think the typical would be like maybe 6
1:12:41
courses in a year because you'd be like, it depended on the
1:12:44
time, but basically you'd be in the field for a month and then
1:12:47
you'd either have, you know, like 3 or 4 weeks off.
1:12:52
And then you'd be in the field for the month.
1:12:54
And then like when the weather got nicer, you might only have
1:12:56
like a week or two off in between courses and then it
1:12:59
would like spread out again. So you'd have more time off.
1:13:02
So I think like 6 or 7 in a year was about that's a lot of what
1:13:07
you and what I would do, but it left me time like I got to, I
1:13:11
lived in Flagstaff for a winter, you know, I got to do some
1:13:15
really cool things while I was doing that, like my housing,
1:13:18
they paid for my housing like that housing on the campus.
1:13:22
So it was A and I learned a lot about just dealing with people
1:13:30
with trauma, just like, and really seeing people for what
1:13:36
they bring to the table and being able to work with that
1:13:40
instead of like having them fit into like a mold or trying to
1:13:44
have things be a certain way. Like really like listening,
1:13:47
really like trying to understand and then having tools to, to
1:13:53
like navigate that and know like what I could say or like, like
1:13:59
how we could try like coping with different things, you know,
1:14:04
because everybody needs something different and like
1:14:06
come in with their own experiences.
1:14:08
And I don't think if I didn't do that job, I wouldn't have had
1:14:12
that training. And so I think I'm really able
1:14:16
to work well with like most personalities because I seek to
1:14:23
understand like why someone reacts or like why someone goes
1:14:28
about something in a certain way or be able to ask that are
1:14:32
questions because I had my my time doing that.
1:14:36
Yeah, Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and.
1:14:39
I wanted to go back to school. That became important to me and
1:14:42
it was hard to go to school with that schedule.
1:14:44
So I became a whitewater specialist at A at a alternative
1:14:50
school that was adventure based, which was super awesome.
1:14:57
Yellow Breeches Education Center in Pennsylvania.
1:15:01
Yeah. I mean, we would go on four
1:15:03
days, you know, take kids out for four days twice a year, you
1:15:07
know, camping and kayaking. We would do what we called, like
1:15:11
Level 3 trips. We earned students earned points
1:15:13
every week for their behaviors. And so if you can maintain Level
1:15:17
3, there were like Level 3 trips that they could go on.
1:15:19
So we went down to the Chatua and did some, like inflate.
1:15:24
We had inflatable canoes, and we would go down to the Yakageni
1:15:28
River and take, you know, students rafting on the
1:15:31
Yakageni. We'd go down to the Everglades.
1:15:33
We'd built tandem wooden kayaks, cool like touring kayaks, and
1:15:41
took them down to the Everglades and paddled out like around and
1:15:45
camped out on the chickies and stuff like that.
1:15:47
So with like every winter in February, they do a two week
1:15:50
trip to the Everglades with the students.
1:15:52
It was just a really great way to engage young minds in a way
1:15:59
that it connected and it worked. And where they didn't, those
1:16:04
students weren't doing as well in their mainstream schools,
1:16:07
which is why the school districts would send them to our
1:16:10
school. That's so.
1:16:11
Cool. It's, I don't know if programs
1:16:14
like that exist anymore or on the West Coast or like what the
1:16:20
what the popularity of wilderness education is anymore.
1:16:25
Yeah. Yeah, it's so.
1:16:26
Valuable, so valuable. Well, and you think about
1:16:29
there's so many more things. They got all of their academics
1:16:32
because we had all the like academic classes and it was a
1:16:36
lot of like project based learning too.
1:16:38
So not only did you get the, the, the academics, but you get
1:16:41
some of those like interpersonal skills.
1:16:47
Yeah. And then just the imagination
1:16:49
and the, the problem solving and like dealing with tricky
1:16:52
situations or yeah, just like outlets.
1:16:56
And I don't know, it's just, it's just a cool environment.
1:17:00
And I think I'm certainly biased, but I think being
1:17:03
outdoors kind of like resets our rhythm a little bit and just, it
1:17:08
just offers. It doesn't need to do much other
1:17:11
than be there, but it just offers the opportunity for so
1:17:15
much growth and play and exploration.
1:17:19
And I think those things really just transfer over into making
1:17:24
good humans, right? Like building a Fort with
1:17:27
someone or like playing in the water and I don't know, just.
1:17:32
It's. Exactly that.
1:17:34
It makes you be a better human when you strip away all the
1:17:37
other constructed things and you just get back to basic humanity.
1:17:40
A group project in the outdoors is so much more fun than.
1:17:44
A group. Project making a slideshow and
1:17:47
putting together slides and then standing in front of a a crowded
1:17:51
room and like. I'd way rather have a group
1:17:54
project building a Fort and then getting everybody to play in
1:17:58
the. Fort Explore the.
1:17:59
Fort have a more exploratory, hands on experience than just
1:18:03
like being talked. At yeah, chasing chickens,
1:18:06
building chicken houses. Like, I mean, yeah, it was
1:18:09
super. I think we one time we even had
1:18:13
a like a town hall debate over whether or not to put in like a
1:18:20
dam and a hydro facility on a river, you know, like type of
1:18:24
scenario. And like students had different
1:18:26
roles to play in that town meeting for the debate.
1:18:29
Like it's right. That's like real, that's real,
1:18:32
that's real life stuff. And they all kayaked and raft
1:18:36
it. And so it was like it felt
1:18:39
important to them. Yeah.
1:18:41
I don't know. It's it's it's a cool spot.
1:18:43
They have 11 campuses. It's still a popular program and
1:18:46
it's still, it's still running like, I love them.
1:18:49
I just, I moved out here. And so I I left my role there
1:18:53
to, to come out here and follow other things.
1:18:55
But yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
1:18:57
What brought you out here was that was that the next step was
1:19:00
from you to here? Yeah.
1:19:02
A dude, yeah, You know, it works out.
1:19:07
We've been married for 12 years now, so.
1:19:10
It's worth it. One on that one, yeah.
1:19:15
Yeah, yeah. And just yeah, I've been working
1:19:19
since I've moved out here. I've been working with different
1:19:21
colleges. Like, I taught at the Community
1:19:23
College, I taught wilderness survival and like, some water
1:19:28
sport courses and then worked for Washington State University
1:19:33
and Oregon State University as a campus recreation coordinator.
1:19:36
So again, like, just getting folks outside and stoked and
1:19:40
giving them the skills to be outside.
1:19:44
Yeah. And I think that's it.
1:19:49
And now I switched over. Oregon State was the second one.
1:19:52
So I switched over from kind of like the campus recreation role
1:19:56
over to just being associated faculty so I can spend more time
1:20:02
with students in the field teaching skills rather than kind
1:20:07
of like I was responsible for the fitness center and the
1:20:10
intramural program and our outdoor activities and then
1:20:14
other legs things assigned by the university and I'm a big fan
1:20:18
of. Culture and I think the culture
1:20:21
has changed now, but when I was there that it just didn't, it
1:20:24
didn't feel good. You know, it's tough to go go
1:20:28
into work and not feel like appreciate it for what you do or
1:20:31
like and like working really hard and I don't know, it's just
1:20:36
it was tough. And I think I've gotten to the
1:20:37
point now where like I know what I need to be successful.
1:20:41
Like I need good culture. I need to feel valued.
1:20:44
I need some type of leadership and I need to feel good about
1:20:52
the organization that I work for.
1:20:54
And so I've made a very intentional switch in like going
1:20:59
to associated faculty, like not doing the administrative job
1:21:02
where I'm working 60 or 70 hours a week and not being able to do
1:21:09
the things that give me a life that that like let me do kind of
1:21:14
the things that like help me show up and do a good job.
1:21:16
Like if I'm going to work 60 or 70 hours a week, like I'll be
1:21:20
outside and I'll be camping on the ground and I'll be sharing
1:21:22
my passion rather than just like doing things because other
1:21:26
people like aren't upholding their responsibilities if that's
1:21:29
not going to change. So yeah, it's kind of why I've
1:21:33
focused on 1st descents and the teaching.
1:21:38
And then in the winter I work as ski patrol for a small little
1:21:43
independent resort, you know, 5 lifts.
1:21:46
Great team of folks. Yeah.
1:21:49
And then I pick up, I build rescue toboggans too, just cuz
1:21:52
they're kind of part of it. And it's a super rad shop and I
1:21:55
use the tool on the mountain all the time.
1:21:57
So it's really neat to be able to like, understand how it's
1:22:01
built and how it's put together. And there's only three of us
1:22:05
working in the shop and one of them is the owner.
1:22:07
And so he gets it and it's really easy for me to like it
1:22:13
like fills in those gaps so that like I can like work a couple
1:22:17
hours here and in the winter time, it's kind of go time and I
1:22:19
can like really supplement. And then when I'm gone in the
1:22:22
spring for my expeditions, it's like no big deal.
1:22:25
Like I still have a spot in the winter if I want to come back.
1:22:29
So it's just like a. Cool.
1:22:32
I don't know, it's just a cool environment.
1:22:33
It's a cool thing to be a part of and I think it balances it
1:22:36
out too. I think balancing out your
1:22:39
skills and recreation is important.
1:22:41
And so now it's not just like processes, it's not just like
1:22:45
hard skills, but it's some of that, like manufacturing and
1:22:49
production and like how things go together.
1:22:52
I got my masters maybe like a year or two ago in
1:22:55
organizational leadership and really looking at like the
1:22:58
efficiency of processes and how things move through production
1:23:02
and how much, how many, how much of the materials we keep on hand
1:23:07
and we're putting money out for versus like systems that we have
1:23:11
to order and restock or remake. It's just all it allows me to
1:23:16
apply that knowledge. I apply it to people all of the
1:23:19
time. So it allows me to use the other
1:23:23
set, that other skill set that helps me be well-rounded if I
1:23:29
wanna look for other opportunities.
1:23:31
Yeah. It seems so valuable to have a
1:23:34
piece of gear and know why that's the kind of geared you'd
1:23:38
want to use, how it's manufactured, what it's made
1:23:40
for. Like I worked at Sotar for a
1:23:43
bunch of years off and on and getting to see why a raft would
1:23:47
be built with a certain material or have D rings placed in a
1:23:51
certain place or have more of a rake or not.
1:23:56
And it helps to bring a lot more, a lot more well-rounded
1:24:01
inside into like, yeah, this is a boat and it floats, right?
1:24:04
But why? What are the components?
1:24:06
How does the shape of a kayak hole make a difference in how it
1:24:12
moves through the water and how well you can roll and how well
1:24:15
you can surf? And all these little different
1:24:18
things about it make it possible for so many different activities
1:24:22
or motions or bodies or, yeah, functionalities.
1:24:26
Yeah. I think that's, I mean, I think
1:24:28
that's what I love about these specific rescue toboggans too,
1:24:32
is like their design is really much more like a kayak versus a
1:24:37
sled. So they have their rocker.
1:24:39
So like, and I'm a, I'm a, I'm a tiny person and so.
1:24:44
Strong and and tiny. Yeah.
1:24:47
And like, man, some of those toboggans are so heavy and
1:24:50
they're just hard to move around.
1:24:53
And you really like, I don't know, like you kind of like
1:24:56
really like lean into him and throw him around.
1:24:58
But this is it's like designed to like turn and flex in the way
1:25:03
the skegs are like in the in the back are kind of at an angle.
1:25:07
So it's really made to kind of like be up on its side and like
1:25:12
be stable. I don't know.
1:25:15
It just works for someone who likes the flow and the finesse
1:25:19
and working smarter, not harder. It's lighter.
1:25:23
It has those things like even like the way the brake works
1:25:26
like I'm, I always like struggle to get the one break like
1:25:30
disengage where is like our brakes are on a bungee system.
1:25:33
So all I need to do is flip the bungee over the, the grips and
1:25:38
like lift up on the front, which is easy to do because the sled
1:25:41
is light. And because it's on that bungee,
1:25:42
it'll just like pop right up. And so it just, for me, I really
1:25:49
love it. And the owner, like supports
1:25:51
women in the ski industry. I mean, he used to have a shop
1:25:55
in Portland that was like primarily all women that worked
1:25:58
there. He'll do women specific clinics,
1:26:02
which I'm super excited to be involved in.
1:26:05
I've been working towards my toboggan instructor
1:26:08
certifications. Yeah, it's just that he's just
1:26:13
right. Again, he's like finding
1:26:15
opportunities for me and use a lot, utilizing my strengths.
1:26:18
So I really feel valued and like I'm part of the team beyond what
1:26:21
like I just bring in like the production.
1:26:25
Yeah, that's so huge. It's tough.
1:26:26
It's tough in the ski industry too.
1:26:28
Like it's been, it's been my experience that it's been, it
1:26:32
hasn't been my experience in whitewater.
1:26:34
Like I've always felt like very welcomed and very part of the
1:26:37
community. And I know that's not
1:26:40
everybody's experience, but it like it hasn't been mine.
1:26:44
And so it's been really strange to be in the ski industry and
1:26:47
feel like I really, it doesn't matter how hard you fight or
1:26:53
what you bring to the table, just always be at that
1:26:56
disadvantage or be like looked differently upon.
1:27:01
Just for being a woman, Yeah. But yeah, that's I think that is
1:27:06
very common in outdoor, outdoor recreation spaces.
1:27:10
They are pretty male dominated. And so yeah, equipment is
1:27:13
designed by and for men. And mentality is the culture is
1:27:20
built by and for men. And to have a a woman come in
1:27:23
and and disrupt that culturally, socially, but also it equipment
1:27:28
wise. But it just makes it so much
1:27:29
more accessible and available for all people, not just women,
1:27:34
but even less masculine men that need to use a little bit more
1:27:40
finesse and can't just muscle their way through everything.
1:27:43
And. Why wouldn't you, like if you
1:27:45
think about like if you're running like 10 calls in a day,
1:27:50
like, why wouldn't you work smarter?
1:27:52
Yeah, not harder. So you can have the longevity.
1:27:55
So you take care of your body like so that you can you're not
1:27:58
worn. Out by the third rescue.
1:28:01
Yeah, like I think that's because you and you never know
1:28:03
what's going to happen next. So like that, that's one thing
1:28:06
that's always really been big with me is like you're like you
1:28:12
and your energy and like what you bring to the table is your
1:28:16
biggest resource, right? I can have, I can have all, all
1:28:20
the other gadgets and all of the other trick stuff.
1:28:23
But if I don't like, if I don't take care of myself, it doesn't
1:28:27
matter what I have if I'm too wiped to, to to use it or to do
1:28:34
the thing or to do the thing well, where other people are
1:28:38
safe and I'm safe, like, you know what I mean?
1:28:41
Like the rest doesn't matter. Yeah, like.
1:28:43
Yeah, meeting your own basic needs, meeting all meeting your
1:28:47
own needs first makes you accessible and functional for
1:28:51
other people. Yeah, and that's having a good.
1:28:54
That's the importance of having a good supervisor and a good
1:28:57
team that makes you feel lifted up and supported and valued so
1:29:02
that you're not sitting there questioning, am I supposed to be
1:29:07
here? Is my time worth being here?
1:29:09
Like, yeah, I need to rescue this person.
1:29:11
But like, so for the recognition, like there's
1:29:14
inherent value in in saving people's lives, but to know that
1:29:19
you're a valued member of that team and that not just the
1:29:22
person who you rescue is going to be glad that you were there.
1:29:26
Yeah. And able bodied.
1:29:28
Yeah. Everybody's depending on you.
1:29:30
Like, are you going to help me be better?
1:29:31
Like, are you my team member? Are you going to help me in this
1:29:34
rescue? Or are you going to let me fail
1:29:37
and then tell me how bad I failed when you could have
1:29:42
stepped in even with just a word of encouragement?
1:29:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes it hard sometimes to
1:29:49
put yourself out there. If you if you know people are
1:29:55
like looking at you to find. Gaps, yeah.
1:29:58
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Man should.
1:30:02
All just be like. Empty.
1:30:04
Why can't it all just be like? FD.
1:30:06
I know it's so. Dreamy.
1:30:09
So yeah. How did you find?
1:30:10
First descent? How did you come to work for
1:30:12
First? Descent.
1:30:14
Through Sundance. OK, Yeah, I.
1:30:17
Came out and did a program. With so I.
1:30:22
When I did my ACA kayak instructor course, Jr., who owns
1:30:28
Sundance, was one of my instructors.
1:30:33
And so I met Jr. then and I don't know how we kept in touch,
1:30:38
but like when I moved out here, he maybe I came out and I did my
1:30:43
research with him and then he's like, hey, we need some folks in
1:30:48
the summer. Can you come out and do a week?
1:30:50
And so I came out and I did a week and that's where I was
1:30:53
introduced. I had like no clue.
1:30:54
I didn't know like what FD was totally taken by surprise and
1:31:00
then just like seeing everybody says it, but like, but seeing
1:31:03
the magic that like happens was pretty cool, pretty incredible.
1:31:11
And so it kind of like kept my eyes.
1:31:13
So like, you know, came back a couple times and and did you
1:31:17
know, just like one week, because I had grown up jobs
1:31:20
where I like didn't have the contracts and the schedule that
1:31:24
I do now. So like I I could only come out
1:31:26
when I could get the time off work.
1:31:28
And then you're taking a, you know, using a week of vacation
1:31:31
time to come out and work. And, and then when I like
1:31:38
changed my schedule around, I think FD might have been like a
1:31:41
huge proponent. And that too, like I saw that
1:31:43
they had a lead staff position opened and I applied for the
1:31:46
lead staff position and just knew like, I knew what I was
1:31:50
getting into. Like I knew what they were
1:31:51
about. I had been studying
1:31:54
organizational leadership and so you know, like looking out like
1:31:58
different frames to assess like high performing organizations
1:32:02
like I did a couple of papers because they just like met the
1:32:05
mark on so many things. And so it just validated that
1:32:10
there was power behind the punch, like it wasn't just the
1:32:14
feelings and the experience that they create, but it was like
1:32:17
very intentional. And they had other pieces in
1:32:20
place that like support it the other and I've and that's that.
1:32:25
Then I'm like, this is the kind of thing I want to do.
1:32:29
Like how can I make this happen? What can I like put together?
1:32:33
And it just kind of like, you know, I was able to like really
1:32:37
think about all the work I was doing and what wasn't serving me
1:32:41
and where I wanted to spend my time and who I wanted to be in
1:32:44
alignment with. And when I kind of put it all
1:32:47
out in paper, it was like a no brainer.
1:32:51
Like my partner like tells me now all the time because it,
1:32:53
it's hard to step out of life for two weeks at a time and have
1:32:57
these amazing experiences. And my, my partner Shane, he's
1:33:03
like he's been, he was on an FD program before I had done an FD
1:33:07
program. So he knows what it's about.
1:33:10
And it's like very weird to like come home.
1:33:12
And you're talking about like, well, MRO and Gnomeo and then
1:33:16
too tall and you know, like totes and he's just like feel
1:33:21
like you come home and you like are talking about a fairy tale.
1:33:24
Like these names don't make sense to me.
1:33:26
It's hard to track, which is true to that, like, you know,
1:33:30
post empty experience. But I right, I'm not at home
1:33:34
slaying away in an office. I get to come out here and
1:33:39
people are always like, oh, whatever, you work on the river.
1:33:41
And I do get to work in an amazing office.
1:33:45
And he's worked in the outdoors too.
1:33:47
So he knows that it's not that I'm not working hard.
1:33:50
I just get to be in a really cool spot.
1:33:53
And like he doesn't get the chance to paddle with people for
1:33:57
a week or two at a time. And I have to step out.
1:34:00
And then there's no one to help take care of the dog and, you
1:34:04
know, take care of all the things that need to be taken
1:34:07
care of around the house. And so that's a little bit of a
1:34:12
of a balance. So I feel lucky that like I have
1:34:16
someone that understands that and gets that and all.
1:34:19
The. Time I'm like maybe I take less
1:34:21
programs this year but and then it's like, but what do I feel?
1:34:26
How do I fill that gap that that creates in like income?
1:34:30
And he's just every time I start to mention it, he's like, don't
1:34:33
like don't do it. He's like, you used to come home
1:34:36
every night, like you were like crying and you were upset and
1:34:39
you were never home. And when you did come home, you
1:34:41
were like exhausted from this other stuff.
1:34:44
He's like, you found your happy place.
1:34:46
He's like, just like, I'd rather you be happy than come home and
1:34:52
and be. Miserable.
1:34:53
And have to like, try to support them.
1:34:55
So yeah, you come home from FD and you're like, there's the FD
1:34:59
Blues. It's over.
1:35:00
But also like, wow, full. Cup.
1:35:03
Full experiences full of joy you get to do something you love
1:35:08
everything you do all day is something you love to do stoke
1:35:11
people out teach them how to kayak celebrate, eat delicious
1:35:16
food, hang out with cool people like carrying heavy boats it's
1:35:20
like a badge of honor like all day I'll carry all those boats
1:35:23
that's. Good.
1:35:23
Kayak on your shoulder. Yeah, And then have people just
1:35:27
like. Admiring and celebrating and
1:35:30
validating every, everything that you do from oh, it's
1:35:34
embarrassing sometimes. And like, can we like this week
1:35:37
I was like, can we just need to stop?
1:35:39
Fan grilling, like can we give a shout out to someone else
1:35:43
please? But also like who else gets to
1:35:46
work in? A space where?
1:35:47
You get. Praised every day, every day,
1:35:50
all day. Every day for just, like, just
1:35:52
existing. Yeah, yeah, it's so we're so.
1:35:57
Fortunate, yeah, to get to work in that space.
1:35:59
That should be the next Ted Lasso.
1:36:01
It should be like FDFDA. Ted Lasso themed FD Yeah,
1:36:07
there's all it is, is inspiring. There's there's nothing about it
1:36:12
that is. Yeah, no drama.
1:36:13
It probably wouldn't. It probably wouldn't sell
1:36:14
because there's, I mean, there's, there's not a lot of,
1:36:16
there's some. Drama, it's a different kind of
1:36:18
drama. It's not like drama.
1:36:20
It's like. There's a boat upside down.
1:36:24
Are they OK? Are they OK?
1:36:26
Oh. Yeah, the the the instructor's.
1:36:28
Peeing next to it. They're fine, They're fine.
1:36:31
Where's the car? Why isn't the car at the take
1:36:34
out? You said you.
1:36:35
Parked a chair but. We're at chair and there's no.
1:36:38
Car here who drove through the. Sand How do we fold the van out?
1:36:43
There's no water in the toilet, sorry.
1:36:44
Toby We got to take that out. Toby Oh the vans.
1:36:47
Are always right where they're. Supposed to be.
1:36:49
Never stuck in the sand. Never stuck in the sand.
1:36:51
Never. Have to pull them out, never 6.
1:36:53
People digging sand out from a high centered car with paddles.
1:36:57
But you know what doesn't happen?
1:36:58
People don't ride on top of the vans anymore.
1:37:00
Nope. Nope.
1:37:02
That's the important one, Yeah, that's the one that made it in
1:37:04
the policy book hands. And.
1:37:06
Feet inside the vehicle at all times.
1:37:09
Yep. Yep.
1:37:10
And music at a level where people can have conversations.
1:37:14
Yeah. That's a hard one.
1:37:15
Yeah. For some people, yeah.
1:37:17
Yeah. But it works.
1:37:21
That's amazing. It is the.
1:37:22
Way it is, it's the way we need. To talk when you can sing.
1:37:29
That's why when I'm on the party boat.
1:37:32
I just get to play music and dance and sing.
1:37:36
And of course, I love when somebody needs to ride with me
1:37:39
and take a break from the kayak. But it does change.
1:37:43
It changes the party vibe. It does.
1:37:46
Yeah. And, and I feel compelled to
1:37:48
make conversation because it's really one of the only times
1:37:51
that I get to have one-on-one time with participants.
1:37:54
Yeah. And so I want to use that time
1:37:58
to connect with them and, and build a relationship.
1:38:02
But it means that the music has to be turned down.
1:38:04
And I'm not as like Stoke Fairy for everyone else.
1:38:11
It feels both are great things. It's great to have that
1:38:14
one-on-one and it's great to be able to Stoke Ferry and but
1:38:18
either way, it takes something away from everyone else and I
1:38:22
sometimes feel a little challenged and yes, come on to
1:38:26
my boat. But OK, I also, I try to put
1:38:29
them in charge of the music, like OK.
1:38:31
You get to. Decide what's gonna play.
1:38:34
And just so you know, if the music's up, I can't hear you.
1:38:36
So it's sort of if you wanted to decide if we're you turn it
1:38:40
down. Yeah, Yeah.
1:38:41
It is kind of like team. Stoke like you're like right as
1:38:44
you're. Inviting people.
1:38:45
Onto your Stoke team and I've got I've had probably my most
1:38:51
impactful conversation with a participant probably happens
1:38:57
because I was on that support raft and I would say Shane or
1:39:02
RAD would say the same thing rowing that raft like on the on
1:39:07
the last day has Yeah, really just put people.
1:39:14
In. I don't know if it's like the
1:39:16
last. Day.
1:39:19
Nerves. It's the end of the week.
1:39:21
Like I don't, I don't know what it is, but like we've we've both
1:39:25
had a similar experience where like the most impactful moment
1:39:28
we've we've had has been like on that support raft on the last
1:39:31
day. Yeah, It feels, it feels like a
1:39:34
safety net for the folks who end up in it.
1:39:37
It's. Like they've been stressed and
1:39:39
scared and pushing themselves and they've hit a limit.
1:39:43
And to have that permission to step away from that challenge
1:39:48
and be somewhere where they are supported and they don't have to
1:39:53
do anything and they can just relax in the stress that they've
1:39:57
been feeling. Yeah, they open up.
1:39:59
They open up differently. Than they do in.
1:40:02
Like fire circle or around the dinner table, coming down from
1:40:05
that stress and recalibrating his Yeah, open thumb up
1:40:11
differently. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:40:14
And they? Get to cheer.
1:40:15
Like, I don't know, being at the bottom.
1:40:17
Of celebration rapid is kind of cool yeah yeah it puts them in a
1:40:22
different stoke position also that they.
1:40:24
Get to observe everybody from a higher level and celebrate them.
1:40:29
Celebrate everybody instead of just celebrating the people that
1:40:32
are in their pod. Yeah, Also, yeah, it's so cool.
1:40:35
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's.
1:40:37
Cool, we do. Cool things we do cool things,
1:40:39
we do cool people. It's impactful.
1:40:43
And empowering. And that's what we're.
1:40:46
Here to do. It's my goals.
1:40:51
Yeah, I love. It Yeah.
1:40:53
So tell me, I have a feeling you have.
1:40:55
Many. Pivotal outdoor experiences that
1:41:00
changed your life or that changed your relationship with
1:41:06
the outdoors or. Kind.
1:41:09
Of leave it open to you for your interpretation of big pivotal
1:41:15
outdoor I mean clearly your whole your whole life since
1:41:19
being introduced to the outdoors has been pivotal changes outdoor
1:41:25
influence that led to another pivotal.
1:41:27
Outdoor. Influence and following a path
1:41:30
of of empowerment and and joy and fun.
1:41:36
So yeah, some of the things along the way that have than
1:41:39
profound for you man. I'll do like summarized versions
1:41:44
to try to fit a lot. Of them in because I think like
1:41:47
all of those, like all of those transitions have all happened in
1:41:51
my life because I had an experience in the outdoors and I
1:41:56
think it's just because I spent a lot of time in the outdoors.
1:41:58
It's like where I live and it's where I work.
1:41:59
So it would be weird to have that happen in an office
1:42:04
building or something like that. I feel like, I think, I think
1:42:08
I'm here because I did like an internship in.
1:42:14
College and we. Were doing trips on the Grand
1:42:17
Canyon and like my dad really asked me the question and he was
1:42:19
like, what are you going to like?
1:42:21
He supported me, you know, like he wasn't, you know, my mom's
1:42:24
always like you should have been a nurse.
1:42:25
Whereas like my dad's like, well, tell me more about this
1:42:27
thing that you're doing. Like, what are you going to do
1:42:30
with that degree? You know?
1:42:32
And so like, I was really thinking about, I'm like, what
1:42:33
am I going to do with this degree?
1:42:36
And there was this woman on these Grand Canyon trips who was
1:42:41
just super rad. And she was like, you know.
1:42:45
Rowing the gear. And I got to spend some time
1:42:49
with her on the gear raft and I did like, it was like 3 trips
1:42:52
that we did out there. So she was on each one and just
1:42:55
kind of like it was the realization that and she was
1:42:59
like, in my mind, because I was a college student, like she was
1:43:03
older, I was like, this can be a thing.
1:43:07
Like I, I can do this. Like I can be like a woman in
1:43:14
the space. Like I can like clearly like
1:43:17
you're close to 50. Like I can make a career of this
1:43:23
like like this is. Possible.
1:43:25
I think I. Didn't I was wrapping up my my
1:43:28
undergrad and I don't like it was great.
1:43:30
I was checking the boxes I was getting so I like I have I
1:43:36
obviously. Have no meal and postal but.
1:43:42
They're working and well at the end of last.
1:43:48
Year Postal and I talked. About getting out and being on
1:43:50
the river together. And I think she was in too deep
1:43:54
of a transition and wasn't available.
1:43:59
So maybe, maybe this coming year.
1:44:02
Yeah, that'd be nice. Be nice to find somebody to.
1:44:07
I mean, I've. My dad.
1:44:09
Bought the house that I live in partly because of its proximity
1:44:12
to a play wave like there's a play wave a minute paddle
1:44:16
upstream from me oh geez and so if I had somebody who just
1:44:21
wanted to like come over after work, let's.
1:44:23
Go paddle for a. Half an hour to an hour in my
1:44:26
backyard. Yeah, I I could grow so fast if
1:44:31
I had. Somebody.
1:44:33
To go. With me, Oh, I'll come down a
1:44:35
day early or stay a day late. What are you doing on?
1:44:38
Tuesday. What are you doing Tuesday
1:44:39
morning? I'll do a morning session.
1:44:42
I'll be on FD for the next three weeks.
1:44:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Work.
1:44:47
Yeah, I mean work. That I love.
1:44:52
But work. Yeah, yeah.
1:44:54
OK, so back to. Melanie.
1:44:58
Melanie. Yeah.
1:45:00
Melanie, I think it was Melanie. Melanie or.
1:45:02
Melody But anyway, I was like, I can do like I can I can do this
1:45:08
like I can make a living at this, like I can make it a
1:45:10
career. And so that was like, OK, I'll
1:45:13
I'll stick with this and keep looking for these type of
1:45:17
opportunities. That was like pretty pivotal at
1:45:20
a young age, I think, to just see that example of a, a strong.
1:45:29
Older. Woman working in the outdoor
1:45:31
space and demonstrating that yeah, I'd be like, OK, no, I
1:45:35
can. I can do this.
1:45:36
I can do this. Yeah, like I don't.
1:45:38
Need to be a nurse. I don't need to do like these
1:45:41
other things, like this is a thing.
1:45:44
There is work here. Yeah, that.
1:45:46
Did you have any concept? Of that women could work
1:45:49
professionally in the outdoors. You know, I don't know if I like
1:45:52
really thought about it, but it was like.
1:45:55
I don't know. It would definitely.
1:45:56
Struck. Me that she was a woman in that
1:46:00
space like so it was more than just like I can like I can this
1:46:05
is sustainable, but it was like it was really.
1:46:09
Weird. But like it helps me see myself
1:46:13
there, not just like, well, anybody can do it.
1:46:14
I can do it, but it's like I, I can do this.
1:46:18
I can see myself doing this type of thing, which I don't think I
1:46:22
necessarily knew or, you know, I was just kind of going through
1:46:25
the things before and then I mean pretty big like.
1:46:32
And so like it's great. Like this life is great, but
1:46:34
you're in and out. Like, you know, I was in the
1:46:36
field for like a month at a time.
1:46:39
It was really easy for me to like pop in and out of life and
1:46:44
be like non committal and just like show up And when you come
1:46:50
back and you're in town, it's like a big party and everybody's
1:46:53
excited to see you. And then by the time like real
1:46:56
conversations start happening and you know, or like folks are
1:46:59
like past excited that you're back and like hit you with like
1:47:03
do real life shit. I could be like, sorry, going
1:47:07
back in the field. And I did that for like four
1:47:10
years and it was like, and I just started thinking like why
1:47:15
do these certain? Patterns.
1:47:17
Keep playing out in my life and like who am I hurting?
1:47:22
Like I don't want to hurt people.
1:47:25
Like why can't like why can't I have certain things Like why
1:47:30
doesn't my life look a certain way?
1:47:32
And we put kids out on solos on those 31 day programs, so we
1:47:36
have like 3 days to kind of like hunker in.
1:47:40
And I just weirdly took advantage of it and.
1:47:45
Kind of stayed, kind of. Like reclusive and thought about
1:47:49
things that had happened in my past and how I was treating
1:47:52
people and like looking for those common patterns and
1:47:57
digging into like where those patterns came from to understand
1:48:03
them so I could change them in a way that doesn't just wasn't
1:48:07
like putting a Band-Aid on it and hoping something different
1:48:10
happened because I felt like I had been trying just throwing
1:48:13
pasta at the wall. But really like diving into like
1:48:18
what the where this was coming from and why it was.
1:48:20
And I think it was just that like non committal, like jumping
1:48:25
in and out and not really having to care about other people's
1:48:31
feelings or how what I did impacted them.
1:48:34
And so that's when I made, that's when I switched over to
1:48:38
working for that school so that like I could be more grounded
1:48:43
and be more present and give people like and family the
1:48:46
attention that I needed to and just really stop doing like just
1:48:54
stop those negative behaviors. And and habits.
1:48:57
That were just kind of like creating chaos and stuff in my
1:49:02
life. So that was super intentional
1:49:04
because I took the time to like think about it and it just
1:49:06
happened to be in the outdoors. But again, if I wasn't open in
1:49:09
that space, I don't know if I would have came to the same
1:49:12
conclusion or it would have been as pivotal.
1:49:16
And kind of shortly after that, maybe like my dad had died and I
1:49:27
was making bad decisions and just kind of like not giving a
1:49:33
shit about anything. And I had started dating my
1:49:36
husband, Shane, But we were like kind of like long distance and
1:49:42
kind of just got to the point where I was just going down the
1:49:45
hole and I was trying to like ruin like everything that I had.
1:49:52
And that was like one of the better things that I had.
1:49:54
And so of course I was like. I'm going to burn this to the
1:49:58
ground. And so we had planned to go on a
1:50:01
backpacking trip like on the John Muir Trail and I like
1:50:05
didn't show up and I like hadn't been like communicating or
1:50:09
answering phone calls just because I was like angsty.
1:50:13
It's kind of like when 1 bad thing is happening, might as
1:50:18
well just make everything. Bad.
1:50:20
Like, I can't get any worse, so just fuck everything up.
1:50:24
And yeah, I was just like, I was just tearing through life.
1:50:29
And then but he was like just such a great dude and I
1:50:37
recognized what I was doing and I felt really shitty about it.
1:50:41
And it wasn't in my mind it was going to change.
1:50:43
So anyway, it's funny, we kind of laugh about this now.
1:50:48
Did he tell you you were fucking shit up?
1:50:50
Like did he? Know he was in and say no.
1:50:52
Hey you. Got to get your shit together.
1:50:54
I'm out of here. He just was a steady, loving
1:50:57
source and amazing let you figure it out.
1:50:59
He came to get me. He called our friend Sam Drivo
1:51:02
and he's. Like, I don't know.
1:51:02
What's going on with this chick? Like she's coming.
1:51:05
Like I don't know. She's like I'm supposed to pick
1:51:07
her up at the airport. I don't even know if I go think
1:51:10
goodness. Sam was like, well, you got to
1:51:12
go, man, because if she does show up and you're not there,
1:51:15
like which is bad, like but he did.
1:51:19
He showed up and you showed up and I was there and I was pretty
1:51:23
much there. Like, look, I just like, really
1:51:25
like. You so I didn't.
1:51:26
Want to do this over the phone, like don't get your hopes or
1:51:29
expectations up, but I'm going through some shit and I just
1:51:32
don't need the extra pressure right now.
1:51:36
Like, I just want to be here with you and spend time with
1:51:39
you. But like, I don't want the extra
1:51:41
shit. I just can't.
1:51:42
I just can't. Yeah.
1:51:43
And yeah, I think let's not talk about it.
1:51:45
Let's not dig it. Exactly.
1:51:46
Yeah. Let's just let's just present
1:51:48
and have this experience. And he's like, now what is going
1:51:52
on with this crazy bitch? Well, we're.
1:51:55
Gonna. Backpack for like a week or two
1:51:57
like oh. Shit I'm not.
1:51:59
Gonna talk at all. He was like down.
1:52:02
For the down. For the adventure and.
1:52:05
Man, it's just something about that physical exertion and we,
1:52:10
we. Jumped on through.
1:52:11
Kings Canyon was like our route to jump on the John Muir Trail.
1:52:15
And if you haven't done it, you climb some ridiculous.
1:52:19
It's like thousands and thousands of feet in like
1:52:23
however long you decide to do it.
1:52:24
And so we were going to do it in like 2 days because I had been
1:52:27
leaving backpacking trips and I can do this.
1:52:30
And we're going to bring a bag of wine and we're going to bring
1:52:33
all the fresh vegetables. Our packs are going to be 80 lbs
1:52:37
and we're just going to hike like 2 1000 feet a day and this
1:52:43
pain isn't gonna even surmount to the emotional pain that was
1:52:46
running I'm. Gonna do everything I can so I
1:52:48
don't have to like fix me. Like let's just just keep piling
1:52:52
it on. And so we were hiking, man.
1:52:54
We were hiking uphill for like 3 days.
1:52:58
I was just like, I had blisters on my feet.
1:53:00
Like we were inviting strangers into our camp so we could like
1:53:04
share our food with them so we could lighten our load.
1:53:07
We're like, do you want some wine?
1:53:09
Come play Uno with us. Please eat our food.
1:53:12
They're like, why do you have a bag of wine on this adventure?
1:53:17
We thought it would be fun. Like.
1:53:21
Right, I totally like. I like to eat.
1:53:23
Well, like I. Have priorities yeah and so like
1:53:27
finally like you were getting like just like up over like this
1:53:31
past and I think I had like come to terms with shit, but I
1:53:36
definitely like worked through my my own shit.
1:53:38
I was like, I can't like I like I that broke me, you know what I
1:53:42
mean? It was like what I needed.
1:53:44
I'm like a physical person like I hate talking about feelings.
1:53:49
It's not easy like my own feelings like it's not easy.
1:53:52
I don't do it very often, so I definitely like hold it in my
1:53:55
body and I like work it out physically.
1:53:59
And that like was like what I need it and I just broke.
1:54:04
He like, came down to check on me at one point and I think
1:54:07
maybe I just sat down and I was like, crying.
1:54:09
And I was like, OK, like, how much?
1:54:12
How much? Yeah, Did you?
1:54:14
How much? More dish it out.
1:54:15
Did you? Was it?
1:54:16
Was it a? Broken of like I've.
1:54:18
Physically broken and. Now I can break down
1:54:20
emotionally. And.
1:54:21
Tell you everything that's going on or it was just physical
1:54:24
break. It was just physical break and
1:54:26
he was pretty much lying. Release and then back.
1:54:28
Yeah. And he's like, you don't.
1:54:29
Even want to be with me like I don't know what to do for you
1:54:32
right? Now.
1:54:33
Like we just kept like hiking hiking and I felt.
1:54:37
Great. At that time, but I just had
1:54:38
that breakdown and we joke about.
1:54:40
This all the time because we were sitting and you could see
1:54:42
like the Ridge and some of those things where you're sitting
1:54:45
there and I'm like looking around and I like look up on the
1:54:47
Ridge and you see these little tiny dots moving around on the
1:54:50
Ridge and you're like, huh, huh. And you look around and you're
1:54:55
like, oh. That's the trail.
1:54:58
That's the trail that goes up there, but I.
1:55:00
Know that. That like looks the worst.
1:55:02
But I can see the finish. Line I'm like, let's go.
1:55:05
Got it. And so like a Shane comes over
1:55:07
and he sits down next to me like hoping I'm like in a better
1:55:10
space and I'm just like, you know, I feel like people go on
1:55:14
these like life changing journeys, like I'm going to hike
1:55:17
the John Muir Trail and it's going to change my life.
1:55:20
They're like looking for this like pivotal thing.
1:55:22
They're going through a divorce. They're going through something,
1:55:25
they probably get to this point and they're like, fuck it.
1:55:28
Like fill my. Pack with the rocks and sent me
1:55:32
into the middle of this lake. She's like, are you OK?
1:55:45
And I'm like, I'm fine but I'm just saying.
1:55:47
For other people like. Because I really like I pulled
1:55:50
my shit together, but not everybody does like what happens
1:55:54
here. Like have other people sat here
1:55:56
and like thought this like this is crazy.
1:56:00
So that's kind of like our joke, but like that, I mean, and then
1:56:03
like we finished the hike and like, and started like just like
1:56:08
talking about us and things and like really like sharing our
1:56:14
feelings. And then like when we got off
1:56:17
the trail, we headed back to Portland to the airport.
1:56:19
And I was just like, what if I don't go home?
1:56:23
Like what? Cuz.
1:56:24
Cuz I realized like, this relationship is really important
1:56:27
to me. And I'm making really bad
1:56:29
decisions. And if I want this to work, like
1:56:32
I need to commit to like doing what I need to do to make it
1:56:36
work. And if I have the distractions,
1:56:38
like I'm going to fall back into like old behaviors.
1:56:41
Like if I want this to work, I need to commit.
1:56:43
And I need to like be here and see if this is like, if this is
1:56:47
going to work because I'm a better person here doing this.
1:56:51
Yeah. I just knew that I needed to
1:56:52
change. Something and if I if I did care
1:56:54
about him and I wanted to. Make it work that like that's I
1:56:57
needed to commit. I needed to change what I was
1:57:00
doing. So that became the priority.
1:57:02
And he was like, after that whole thing, he was like, that's
1:57:06
great. We'll just live in my.
1:57:08
RV and I'm like. OK, I'm quitting work tomorrow.
1:57:13
Holy shit. Was this like the first time you
1:57:14
guys had spent? Extended time together.
1:57:18
No, because he had come out for a winter and stayed in.
1:57:21
Carlisle with me for like. A winter.
1:57:23
And that didn't go like, really well, like, you know what I
1:57:28
mean? Like, it was definitely like, it
1:57:30
was a new place for him and he had his own challenges, but
1:57:33
like, yeah, so it was like kind of a lot just like, put on the
1:57:37
table and be like, well, yeah, let's see if this works.
1:57:41
But I'm glad I did. Like totally.
1:57:43
Worth it, but that. If I, I think if I hadn't had
1:57:46
pushed myself and had that breakdown and then just like
1:57:49
physically work shit out so that I could just like be like, OK,
1:57:53
like I love you. Like I just want to know.
1:57:56
I just need to know that you care about me.
1:57:59
You know what I mean? It's like I already told you.
1:58:01
I'm like, you've never told me, you know what I mean?
1:58:04
And like I if that didn't happen, like I.
1:58:07
Probably would have like. Gone home and never talked to
1:58:10
him again. Damn, so I don't know.
1:58:14
Just put it on the table and see what he says.
1:58:17
Yeah. And there was no.
1:58:18
No hesitation. Yeah, no, yeah, it was pretty
1:58:21
bad. I was like, great, we'll live in
1:58:22
my RV. And I was like, oh, OK.
1:58:25
How long did you guys live in an RV like?
1:58:28
12 years. No, it was just I.
1:58:32
Think a couple. Of months.
1:58:34
I remember like right before we like moved out of the RVI had to
1:58:37
like get up to go to work and I like turned the water on and the
1:58:41
knob broke off the. Faucet.
1:58:44
And he was sleeping and I was late from work and there's
1:58:47
water. Spreading out it's.
1:58:49
Like hey, hey, hey, hey. Honey, I broke the faucet and
1:58:52
it's shooting all over the place.
1:58:54
I got to go. Bye, he's.
1:58:57
Like shit. And then we like pretty quickly
1:58:59
moved out of the RV. After that so.
1:59:02
This is really. Good, yeah.
1:59:06
Yeah, well. Yeah.
1:59:07
Yeah. So that's a what are life
1:59:10
changing moments? Yeah, yeah, that's an absolutely
1:59:12
life changing. To be in a really challenging
1:59:17
outdoor setting and not just to be like, OK, now I see how I
1:59:23
need to improve my life, but also with this person.
1:59:26
Yeah. Like that's kind of, I feel like
1:59:27
that's simult too simultaneous pivotal changes like with you
1:59:33
within yourself and then you in this partnership that has
1:59:37
continued to grow and bloom and build.
1:59:40
Yeah, yeah. And he's like my bestie.
1:59:42
He's still fantastic and. Always supports me and.
1:59:47
Yeah. My bestie, that's so great.
1:59:50
I'm so happy that you have that. And I'm so happy.
1:59:53
For you SO. Happy.
1:59:56
Truly, truly like as an aspiring.
2:00:02
I aspire to have to have something.
2:00:04
That I can look back on and. And say something similar, but
2:00:08
that we had to grow together. That that I had somebody who was
2:00:13
supporting me through hard shit and saw me breakdown and was a
2:00:17
stable, grounding presence and allowed me to fall apart.
2:00:22
And then also said, I'm here for you and we're going to, we're
2:00:25
going to build together and, and stay there.
2:00:28
And yeah, like, yeah, that's a, that's a really inspiring
2:00:33
foundation. To.
2:00:35
To have and. And I hope.
2:00:37
I hope for the same for me someday.
2:00:39
Yes, I love your hot. Mess.
2:00:41
Yeah, you know, yeah, that you don't have to show up.
2:00:44
Perfect and healed and. You know as we.
2:00:47
Were talking about. Earlier in my new found.
2:00:50
Awareness about. A pattern that I'm experiencing
2:00:53
and feeling the need to fix like and also recognizing that I
2:00:57
don't have to fix everything about me to be worthy of a
2:01:02
loving partner. That I can show up messy and
2:01:07
still broken and the right person will want to will want to
2:01:12
lean into that and help me fix myself, then I don't.
2:01:15
Have to do it all by myself. No, no.
2:01:17
And I think that's part of the thing, right?
2:01:19
Like we're. Not.
2:01:20
If you're if. Someone's searching for perfect,
2:01:23
like, that's, that's like not realistic.
2:01:28
Right, like you just like on empty.
2:01:30
Programs like we need to accept people with what they bring in
2:01:34
and we don't even have to you don't even have to change it
2:01:38
like it can be fully and authentically.
2:01:41
You just need it's just needs to be someone that like understands
2:01:45
that and can like be in that space and like appreciate it and
2:01:51
just like know how to like interact because it is what
2:01:56
makes us us right. Like we learn lessons from all
2:01:59
the experiences that we have and all the shit that we're going
2:02:01
through. And if I mean, I think the
2:02:04
important thing is to like learn the lesson and then figure out
2:02:08
who we want to be. And it's like, take that to like
2:02:12
fail forward or to like learn and grow.
2:02:16
Like, yeah. And but people need to be be
2:02:22
right because everyone has their shit and it's.
2:02:25
Unfair for someone. Else to be like, I'm going to
2:02:27
show up with all my shit and I have a history, but like, you
2:02:30
can't have history and you can't do it like RAW, right?
2:02:33
Yeah. Like the fibers has to come to
2:02:35
you. It's like you can't just pluck
2:02:37
one of the fibers out like they're all there.
2:02:40
You have to. You have to appreciate it all.
2:02:42
Absolutely. Yeah.
2:02:43
You deserve that. Thank you.
2:02:45
Yeah, I think so too. I know.
2:02:46
Pretty wonderful. Yeah.
2:02:50
Thanks. Yeah, should yeah, any.
2:02:57
Other. Pivotal stories.
2:03:00
You want to share? I mean that takes us up to just
2:03:02
about 1 I think, just like recognizing.
2:03:05
That like, hey, like if I'm going to work 60 hours like I'm
2:03:09
going to do it in a place where I.
2:03:11
Want to and? A place where I feel like I'm
2:03:13
adding value. Yeah.
2:03:15
And that, that's the, that's the outdoors you add value.
2:03:19
And the the outdoors add value to your life.
2:03:22
Yeah. That.
2:03:23
Yeah. You don't get in an office,
2:03:25
Yeah, in a in a built. Office this.
2:03:28
Is a great office yeah, yeah. And I think.
2:03:30
This is my passion, right? Like if anything like I've.
2:03:33
Created. A life around this somehow and
2:03:37
like this like again, like looking at my strengths and
2:03:40
looking at my goals, like this is my passion and it serves up
2:03:45
lessons that like are pretty intrinsic.
2:03:50
I just need to facilitate the like the reflection or the
2:03:54
appreciation. And so I feel really lucky that
2:03:58
I am able to take my passion and take this, these places that are
2:04:04
just really special and have been really like defining for me
2:04:07
and like invite other people in to have an experience in those
2:04:12
places or a new appreciation for them.
2:04:14
Like, I don't take that lightly. Yeah.
2:04:19
It just feels like a gift that I get to do that.
2:04:22
Besides having this be my office, which is a whole another
2:04:27
level. Yeah.
2:04:28
I I was just starting to think about like in a.
2:04:30
Classroom. You have to build.
2:04:32
A Lesson plan you have to build. This is what I'm this is the
2:04:35
lesson you're going to leave class with today is how to do
2:04:39
this or how to think about this or how to explain this.
2:04:43
And in the outdoors, the lessons just kind of present themselves.
2:04:47
Maybe it is like, OK, okay, today we're going to learn this
2:04:50
hard skill, we're going to learn how to paddle a kayak or we're
2:04:54
going to learn how to dress a wound.
2:04:56
But that's such a tiny part of the lesson that's happening, and
2:05:03
the Lesson plan is to just plan for lessons to appear and
2:05:08
respond to them and and find that.
2:05:12
Everybody can have a. Different take away from that,
2:05:14
too. Everybody's going to learn
2:05:15
something a little bit different, and then everybody
2:05:19
can learn from each other and the lessons compound on
2:05:23
themselves. And where you thought you were
2:05:25
just going to learn how to dress a wound, now you've learned 50
2:05:30
other things from the different ways that people are
2:05:34
interpreting and experiencing and and create, bringing in new
2:05:40
what ifs and incidents. And it's, it's such a more
2:05:46
expansive learning environment. Yeah.
2:05:49
That you can't, that you can't predict, but also you can kind
2:05:52
of control. And respond to.
2:05:53
Yeah, yeah, taking advantage of those teachable moments and I
2:05:56
love it. Like in my classes.
2:05:58
I'm always like don't because I think as an instructor, people
2:06:00
like kind of put you on a pedestal and like I like other
2:06:04
folks come to my classes that have their own experiences and
2:06:07
they might have another technique that is like totally
2:06:10
awesome. Like, like bring it, like let's
2:06:13
talk about it so we can learn from each other.
2:06:15
Like I'm sure you would rather hear something from a classmate
2:06:18
than like listen to me, stand up here and talk.
2:06:21
But I, I think it's the time in the field being able to like
2:06:26
facilitate or like navigate and like pull those things out to
2:06:30
like guide what's happening, right?
2:06:33
Like, I do think that I'm like a facilitator versus an instructor
2:06:36
and that changes sometimes. But just being like really
2:06:40
dynamic and knowing like when I need to like instruct and give
2:06:44
very clear instructions and expect that to be repeated.
2:06:48
And then building to you have the knowledge like we're going
2:06:52
to apply it in an, in another way.
2:06:54
And then like stepping back and saying you, you have all of
2:07:00
these things, like now you all get to decide how you want it to
2:07:04
look and how you're going to execute.
2:07:06
And then we'll talk about it at the end of the day, like being
2:07:08
able to like, you know, delegate or coach or just based on like
2:07:15
the conditions that you're in, because there's so many ways to
2:07:19
do the same thing. Which is different than in a
2:07:23
classroom setting it feels. Like.
2:07:25
There's one way to do this, there's one way to solve this
2:07:27
problem, and we're fixed on that.
2:07:29
But out here there's a hundred ways.
2:07:32
I mean, there are there are things that need that do need to
2:07:34
be done a certain way for them to work.
2:07:37
A knot needs to be tied correctly for it to hold.
2:07:40
But there's hundreds of different knots that could be
2:07:42
used for any scenario. And a lot of them can work the
2:07:46
same way. And So what one person uses is
2:07:49
maybe different from another, but it still works.
2:07:51
And it kind of breaks away that, like, rigidity of things can
2:07:57
only be one way. Yeah.
2:07:59
And say no, there's nuance to it all.
2:08:02
And anything can really happen. And they're so chatty.
2:08:08
You totally know who that is. Yeah, that's Uno and Z dog.
2:08:11
Oh no. Uno What's?
2:08:17
Up. What's up?
2:08:18
We know you. Yeah.
2:08:22
Come crash the. Pod.
2:08:27
We're just talking. About how much I love kayaking.
2:08:30
We love. Kayaking.
2:08:31
We love kayaking. How funny.
2:08:36
Dude, we totally knew it. Was you by like the whole
2:08:39
commotion? That was happening down.
2:08:41
The river. Hold on one second.
2:08:43
Oh yeah, I can. I can't hear.
2:08:45
Is he? Is he deaf in one ear?
2:08:47
Uno I don't know. Are you deaf in one ear, Uno?
2:08:50
What's that? Are you deaf in one?
2:08:51
Ear. I mean, I'm kind of.
2:08:52
Deaf in one ear, we totally can't hear in the other.
2:08:55
Jimmy, you're fine. We invited him.
2:08:57
It's all right. He's.
2:09:00
Invited. He's fine, just.
2:09:02
Ignore him. Pretend he's invisible, then
2:09:06
he'll yeah. Then he'll chill out.
2:09:10
You're good. Bro, you're good.
2:09:13
Welcome. Hi, we're doing great.
2:09:16
We're. We're we're about.
2:09:17
To our wrap up questions, do you guys want to observe the wrap
2:09:21
up? I mean, does that count?
2:09:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here, here move.
2:09:25
It OH. Oh, what's?
2:09:26
Happening. You can't go any faster than
2:09:28
she. Can.
2:09:31
She's she's. I just want to go check it out
2:09:33
even if I'm not. Going to run it or I'll just go
2:09:34
and check it out so. No, unless you think you're
2:09:37
getting done. You can wait for you, too.
2:09:40
I don't even know what's happening.
2:09:41
Yeah. What are you guys going to do?
2:09:42
That section you're talking about.
2:09:44
You're gonna go do that? Maybe.
2:09:45
He wants. To.
2:09:47
He was hoping I could take. Him over there?
2:09:49
Gotcha. I've got other.
2:09:50
Plans at like. 5:00. Gotcha side of the world, gotcha
2:09:53
be. A dinner or.
2:09:54
Something but we'll let you guys are yours then we.
2:09:55
Could be quiet and sit over here and watch.
2:09:58
It nice to have you. I love having a live studio
2:10:00
audience, right? Yeah, yeah, applaud and.
2:10:05
Ask any if you have any like follow up questions to to the
2:10:09
next. Question I can add, yeah.
2:10:14
Yeah, yeah, yeah. My Co host does all the editing.
2:10:17
So if you say something. We need to cut out.
2:10:19
We just have to say cut that out.
2:10:21
So is the camera on your. Microphone here, camera there.
2:10:28
Yeah, it's. Freaking cool.
2:10:29
I think this is. Awesome because I.
2:10:32
Think we're out of? Cameron Grange.
2:10:34
Yeah, yeah, you're out. You're out.
2:10:36
Of the frame we're I think. You please.
2:10:40
Yeah, if we pull into Shore a little bit.
2:10:42
More. That touched the ground, right?
2:10:46
What a great. What a great studio.
2:10:49
The outdoors. Good thing she doesn't charge.
2:10:52
The owner doesn't charge. A lot, yeah.
2:10:54
I know she. Just charges blood, sweat and
2:10:56
tears. Dedication, Dedication.
2:11:00
Love, devotion. Respect.
2:11:03
Humility. Adventure.
2:11:06
Otherwise not nothing. Yeah, yeah, all.
2:11:09
All emotions. Yeah, no money, no money, no
2:11:13
money, no money to be. Yeah, that's you don't need
2:11:16
money to go outside. Just go outside.
2:11:20
Just go out. Just just go outside.
2:11:24
Just go. Outside, we don't.
2:11:28
We don't want to be hungry. Though we.
2:11:30
Want to be but. Still be happy is.
2:11:33
All I'm saying true. Good.
2:11:34
You don't get hangry. I do get hangry.
2:11:36
I guess you're right. Yeah, we want to.
2:11:40
Be abundant. And fed.
2:11:43
And. Happy.
2:11:44
Yes, that's the best. OK.
2:11:49
All right, our our wrap. Up questions are well do you if
2:11:55
people want to find out more about.
2:11:57
You and how? To get involved in anything that
2:12:00
you're doing, how to be taught by you, facilitated by you, or
2:12:05
work with you or just learn more about you.
2:12:09
Where could they find you if you wanted to be found?
2:12:13
I mean, I have an Instagram page, it's at Jules J.
2:12:16
ULES of adventure. I don't post very often, but I'm
2:12:22
sure I'll be posting more, especially as worlds are coming
2:12:25
up and we're training for Malaysia.
2:12:27
And wait, say more about that. What is Worlds and what's
2:12:31
happening in Malaysia? I paddle with a team of women,
2:12:36
so I'm on the US. Women's Masters whitewater raft
2:12:40
racing team. And so we take rafts down Class
2:12:45
4 Rapids and we'll be competing against other teams from all
2:12:50
over the world. That's badass, that's exciting,
2:12:53
and we're the Furies. I'm sure we have a.
2:12:57
Website up somewhere, I'll get more information on that.
2:13:01
Perfect. And I don't know if you're
2:13:04
interested about my background and the path that I've taken to
2:13:07
get here. Julia Conrad, Impactful
2:13:13
experiences is my LinkedIn profile.
2:13:18
Awesome. We'll put it in the show notes
2:13:20
so people can learn more about you.
2:13:22
And then we have Stout Creek Outfitters.
2:13:23
Is is the outfitter that I that I own?
2:13:26
And so kayak construction rafting trips, you can check
2:13:30
that out too. And if you want to put something
2:13:32
together, we do mostly custom and and private trips so that we
2:13:36
can really connect with people and get folks the experience
2:13:39
that they want out of their time out on the water.
2:13:42
Awesome. And that's Stout Creek
2:13:44
Outfitters, based in Central Oregon, correct?
2:13:46
And only only doing Central Oregon rivers.
2:13:50
That's Portland. OK.
2:13:51
Yeah. Cool and.
2:13:54
If. When our other wrap up question,
2:13:58
when your body expires and your soul leaves this plane of
2:14:02
existence, how do you want to be remembered?
2:14:09
I think I want. To be remembered as someone who
2:14:11
like. Empowered someone to do
2:14:15
something that they didn't think they were capable of.
2:14:19
Like that like moment when you're like, I did that thing or
2:14:24
like, I didn't think I could do that and like.
2:14:25
Look at this. Like that.
2:14:27
Like. That little spark, like that
2:14:30
moment, that's what I want to be remembered for.
2:14:33
I love that I see you doing that every, everywhere that I get to
2:14:37
see you is. What that is what I see you
2:14:39
doing and I think that is. Absolutely in line with your.
2:14:43
Life mission of empowerment and and skill building.
2:14:47
So I have no doubt that that's that will be the legacy that you
2:14:51
leave. Thanks.
2:14:52
Yeah, absolutely. And any advice for either your
2:14:58
younger self or other young people interested in getting
2:15:03
into the outdoors or essentially becoming as cool and awesome as
2:15:09
you? Oh, thanks.
2:15:11
Yeah. Yeah, myself, I think it would
2:15:12
have been to like bring the medical.
2:15:14
Into it, like stick with that because that would have been a
2:15:17
really great compliment to what I do.
2:15:19
I just didn't know that it existed.
2:15:22
And so I think for other young people, it's like there are so
2:15:25
many things out there that you don't know exists.
2:15:29
Like I work with wildland firefighters in the winter that,
2:15:32
like, have amazing jobs in the summer.
2:15:34
So like, you got to put yourself out there and you need to like,
2:15:38
do the thing to figure out if you want to do the thing and
2:15:43
what other things there are to do.
2:15:45
So don't be afraid to like, ask questions.
2:15:49
Don't be afraid to like dabble if you're curious, be curious
2:15:54
and see if you can like shadow or do a ride along or tell me
2:15:58
what that looks like and, and start to like grow and pick
2:16:02
those experiences. Because the more like, I think
2:16:06
hard work and well-rounded, having those different
2:16:09
experiences just create more of a world of opportunity.
2:16:15
And it can always, it can always grow and you can always decide
2:16:20
your direction. If you have that foundation to
2:16:22
work from. If you kind of like wait and let
2:16:25
it get away from you, you're kind of like playing catch up.
2:16:29
But the more you have, the more you can kind of you've got those
2:16:34
transferable skills. Yeah, avoid getting.
2:16:37
Into a silo with anyone skill. Set.
2:16:41
Yeah, Yeah, I love that. Cool.
2:16:44
Thank you. Yeah.
2:16:45
Thank you. For having me any questions.
2:16:47
From the. Audience.
2:16:53
Awesome. Thank you.
2:16:55
Thank you so much for giving. Us this time today you've been
2:17:00
working non-stop for weeks and weeks and weeks and months and
2:17:04
months and months and I really appreciate carving out a few
2:17:08
hours today to for me to get to know you more and for me to get
2:17:12
to share you with this audience. The one of the great blessings
2:17:16
that I feel in getting to do this podcast is that I feel very
2:17:20
fortunate that like almost everybody in my life is an
2:17:24
amazing outdoor enthusiast and an outdoor professional or just
2:17:28
an outdoor recreationalist. And I think that's probably
2:17:33
pretty rare that somebody's like 98% of their network are outdoor
2:17:39
people. So it really makes sense that I
2:17:41
would begin Co hosting an outdoor podcast because those
2:17:44
are the people I get to tap into.
2:17:47
And that I I see myself as a connector of people and like a
2:17:53
conduit for relationships and information sharing.
2:17:56
And I feel very fortunate that I get to share.
2:18:00
I get to get to know my friends more and I get to share my
2:18:03
friends with people and hope that somebody out there will get
2:18:08
to meet you through this and reach out and then maybe become
2:18:12
a really good friend for you. Thank you so much for just even
2:18:16
thinking of me and having me. And.
2:18:18
Just. Being my friend, yeah.
2:18:23
And inviting me into into this special, special project that
2:18:27
you're doing. I'm.
2:18:28
I'm humbled and extremely flattered.
2:18:31
Thanks for sharing me. Absolutely.
2:18:33
It's an honor. Thanks for being my friend.
2:18:35
I love you. We're floating.
2:18:44
The. Dog goes like you're out.
2:18:47
Let's go. Yeah, yeah.
2:18:49
Let's go downstream. How?
2:18:50
Are you going and I need to grab the camera?
2:18:55
And and the dog. Yeah, thanks for thanks for
2:18:59
joining. In pretty lucky to get to beat.
2:19:01
Something. Badass people on right like I
2:19:04
like. Everybody, I bet is.
2:19:06
So that's how I feel too. I don't know.
2:19:10
I feel like you're going to have to.
2:19:11
Be one of the next ones. Yeah, me.
2:19:13
Yeah, yeah, you're way. More interesting than I.
2:19:16
Oh, fish posh. No, no need to come.
2:19:18
There. Everybody's interesting in their
2:19:21
own. Right podcast like I don't think
2:19:25
you understand like. You.
2:19:27
Think you're pretty? Freaking special.
2:19:30
Yeah, anything can become a story.
2:19:33
Anybody can be. Inspiring.
2:19:35
You never. I mean, that's like our main
2:19:37
question being like, what's a pivotal outdoor experience that
2:19:42
you've had? Like it's, it's up to you, it's
2:19:45
up to the storyteller to decide what makes it pivotal.
2:19:49
It doesn't have to be that like somebody died and I saved their
2:19:53
life or I almost died and somebody saved my life.
2:19:57
I mean, those are my stories. Those are some of my stories,
2:20:01
but it could be that. Like I'll.
2:20:04
Give you 1 like I got to run lava on my birthday.
2:20:08
Sleep after Tequila Beach afterward.
2:20:10
And I got to do like, have you ever seen that rap trick where
2:20:12
you'd knock somebody out of a hole?
2:20:14
Yeah, too tall is getting worked.
2:20:15
We got it all on video, like on Gopros and I come up.
2:20:18
To it and I like. Kill my line, flip upside down,
2:20:21
bumper out of it. We roll up together.
2:20:23
Camp out on my birthday next morning Mike burning Ring of
2:20:27
Fire their eclipse so it's. Just like they brought a.
2:20:31
They brought a cactus down full of little shots in a little.
2:20:35
I play or like soccer a lot and they had messy jersey so they
2:20:38
kept this pinata the whole way down the river.
2:20:41
I'm super high right now too until we got to.
2:20:46
Lava bust this thing out. That made me a cake.
2:20:49
Like what? That's an amazing birthday.
2:20:51
It's so fun like. That's to be in Camp Grand
2:20:56
Canyon with. Cool folks from First.
2:20:57
Descent. Ohh.
2:20:59
Wow. Yeah, yeah, kind of.
2:21:02
Orchestrated all that and that's that's profound and pivotal.
2:21:05
But. Not, like, scary.
2:21:08
Sad, right? Devastating.
2:21:10
It could be anything. It was pivotal in the sense.
2:21:13
Like I was. Just getting back into like,
2:21:15
boating. Boating a lot again.
2:21:17
Like, I got super sick and didn't vote for a while.
2:21:20
That's kind of that was your welcome back to it.
2:21:23
Just, you know. Stand in the Grand Canyon.
2:21:25
I'm ready again. Like it was it?
2:21:27
Was all the way back, like I felt all the way comfortable.
2:21:29
Again, you know, like ready to run anything and like that was
2:21:33
like almost two years ago. Now OK.
2:21:35
I've been going pretty free hard again.
2:21:37
Yeah. Making up for lost time.
2:21:39
Yeah, well, you paddled some big.
2:21:42
Stuff. Yeah, boy.
2:21:45
Yeah, yeah. Oh, tons of like that was.
2:21:49
Yeah. Yeah, I've done I.
2:21:50
Love it. Yeah.
2:21:52
Yeah, I've done some things. Yeah, clearly.
2:21:54
I need to get you on for an episode so.
2:21:58
Yeah, this is this is not the end of Uno here.
2:22:01
I don't know, I. Don't know it's gonna be.
2:22:03
Pretty hard to edit I think. We'll wait till you're not high.
2:22:08
Yeah, yeah. We'll take you sober.
2:22:11
You're great, right? Now you are like.
2:22:14
Grateful like so. I'm getting all these feelings.
2:22:21
Oh, it's great. We love it.
2:22:22
No need to be sorry. We're.
2:22:24
Stoked. Fucking awesome.
2:22:26
Their life on the river, Those synergies just happen all.
2:22:29
That you don't make it happen. I just, I love it.
2:22:33
I'm just like, in an excitement mood, right?
2:22:34
In fact, you're in. Crack floating.
2:22:36
Down the reason is the reason, and they're like.
2:22:39
You. Don't you don't know anybody
2:22:41
here? No.
2:22:42
But you're floating. And the people, the only people
2:22:44
that you know. And I was just like.
2:22:47
What? Who knows me straight?
2:22:49
Across the like. Like the glare?
2:22:51
Had. No clue.
2:22:53
Who was even? I love you like battle I only.
2:22:56
Know like. Three people here so.
2:22:58
I. Must know them.
2:23:01
It was the chattiness. Yeah, it was.
2:23:03
You were chatting. I'm like that.
2:23:04
Sounds like Z dog. I was like.
2:23:06
And then we recognized the boats.
2:23:08
Some. Some people kayaked by earlier.
2:23:10
Yeah, some people. Kayaked by earlier and we were
2:23:14
like, do we know? Them.
2:23:17
No, no, don't think we knew. No.
2:23:20
But then there, there you were. We knew you.
2:23:24
Yeah. Should we paddle out?
2:23:25
Yeah. How?
2:23:27
Possible. Are you able to R1 and I?
2:23:31
Film our paddle out. Yep.
2:23:33
I don't think I can paddle and film.
2:23:35
And yeah, I don't. I got you.
2:23:37
You guys prefer that we let you meet out like we float down?
2:23:40
With no flow with us, I didn't. Know if there's still like some
2:23:43
other is. This carpenter's Isle.
2:23:47
This is Widowmaker. Widowmaker.
2:23:50
Yeah, so. Hope you don't have a wife cuz.
2:23:53
Where's? Widow, we're just above Almeida.
2:23:59
This is that Alameda Rapid the. One Yeah, we.
2:24:01
Just like keep them left. This is the one they.
2:24:03
Call Alameda. This is the one we call
2:24:05
Widowmaker. Alameda Rapid is.
2:24:07
The one just below the boat. Ramp.
2:24:10
Yeah, yeah, that's good to know. That's good to out right at the
2:24:13
river house. Yeah, I.
2:24:18
Know that's that's totally. Beat me and.
2:24:19
Was like. Oh my gosh.
2:24:20
I think that's be perfect. You could go down to the surf
2:24:24
wave. You could take out of the.
2:24:25
Surf wave what? Kind of.
2:24:32
I mean, yeah, you. Can take out of the surf wave
2:24:35
Yeah, go to the. You can.
2:24:37
You can. We probably.
2:24:39
Can't, but you can. Wow, the next.
2:24:53
Time I pedal this boat, I'm going to bring a sponge with.
2:24:55
I'm like. Can you tell me a bit about?
2:25:00
The type of. Paddle stroke that you use.
2:25:03
For. For this boat and this R1,
2:25:08
because I like watching. When I was watching you come in
2:25:11
from chair, I was noticing it's not just as straight forward
2:25:15
enough. There's there's some different
2:25:18
like finesse movement. Motion in there.
2:25:22
Yeah. Hey, Jimmy, can I trade you
2:25:24
spots, Jim? I'm gonna, I'm gonna come sit
2:25:30
next to Jim and hopefully not. Tip the boat over.
2:25:35
All right, well, so I do. It's kind of similar to a sea.
2:25:39
Stroke In canoeing, I start off with a little bit of a little
2:25:47
bit of a draw on the front with. My catch?
2:25:51
So I. Draw.
2:25:53
The bow of the boat towards my paddle lane.
2:25:57
That way it just kind of counterbalances that forward
2:25:59
stroke. And then?
2:26:01
I do my forward stroke, so I got my draw, my forward, and then I
2:26:06
end with a quick little like pry and I just do an underwater
2:26:10
recovery. And so then this way I can kind
2:26:13
of counterbalance the turn to the right on my forward stroke
2:26:19
with that quick draw and that little pry.
2:26:22
So cool. And when I come along.
2:26:25
Instead of just having a vertical.
2:26:27
Paddle stroke I even. Try to come underneath.
2:26:29
That tube just a little bit oh like scoop it under the tube,
2:26:32
under the water. Wow, that's so cool.
2:26:35
That's so. In canoeing, that's that C
2:26:36
stroke. That's so neat.
2:26:43
Thank you. I'm so curious.
2:26:45
I know, I know. Like just straight straight
2:26:49
stroke? What if that's called and AJ
2:26:52
Stroke. But I've never done any
2:26:54
canoeing. I don't know any other.
2:26:56
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So cool.
2:26:59
Yeah. Do you have a favorite
2:27:05
watercraft to propel? You know, I think it like all.
2:27:10
Depends on what you're doing. And.
2:27:13
Who you're with, you know, if someone isn't into kayaking or
2:27:19
being like close on the water and that causes a lot of anxiety
2:27:22
and they're just going to be gripped like I love taking this
2:27:27
out. I love doing the R1 the like RS1
2:27:31
right solo or with someone else. I like the solo kind of aspect
2:27:39
or the not the the social kind of aspect of it.
2:27:43
You know, you can shot it up, you've got someone to float with
2:27:46
and you also often get like more giggles because there's not that
2:27:50
anxious. Oh my gosh, I need to.
2:27:52
I can't see the rapid like our vantage point is way better
2:27:55
being up higher so we can see what's coming.
2:27:58
You're in it with someone else, which is comforting for folks.
2:28:03
And I think you just feel safer because you're in rubber and
2:28:06
you're not in a boat. So often times, like rafting,
2:28:10
like I love rafting with my race team.
2:28:12
I love being in a raft with folks.
2:28:14
I can kind of do more stuff in a raft than I can in my kayak.
2:28:19
Oh, interesting. It's hard for me to throw around
2:28:22
that plastic. So like.
2:28:24
You know, if I get into a. Wave and I surf and I throw the
2:28:26
wrong edge. I'm like rolling over and I
2:28:31
can't really like throw Enders and cartwheels and stuff.
2:28:34
Like that it's hard for me to move.
2:28:35
The boat that way because I'm kind of tiny, but if I'm in a
2:28:39
raft, I can drop into a hole by myself and I can just kind of
2:28:45
find that sweet spot where the raft will sit.
2:28:47
And I can like change my weight and my weight in the back kind
2:28:50
of like pirouette spins on the back.
2:28:53
And then I can like pop in like I can do three 60s.
2:28:57
I can get it to rock And it's it's really about the like.
2:29:02
I love the feeling of working with the water.
2:29:05
And so in the. Raft, I'm not trying to muscle.
2:29:08
And make things happen. I'm like.
2:29:10
Working, I'm feeling what the water is doing to the raft and
2:29:12
how it's moving the raft and then I just kind of like weighed
2:29:16
it where I want that pivot point and I can just stroke.
2:29:20
It's just and it's kind of cool to be a tiny girl and take a.
2:29:25
Big raft and. Be able to like.
2:29:27
Do some sick tricks, yeah. And this isn't a.
2:29:29
Gear raft. This isn't empty.
2:29:31
No, it would. Be like an empty paddle.
2:29:33
Boat. Yeah, Yeah.
2:29:35
Yep. That's so cool, I'd love the
2:29:39
chance to learn. Some of those.
2:29:40
Skills with you? Yeah.
2:29:44
So I can row a raft. But I can't.
2:29:47
I can't play that. 'D be so fun.
2:29:51
Yeah, right. Especially those gear rafts.
2:29:53
They're like a freight train, Yeah, going down the river.
2:29:55
It's. Get out of my way.
2:29:57
Oh yeah. Jim, can you?
2:30:00
Go more central. Onto there please.
2:30:05
Look, it looks like they're going to get a first descent.
2:30:07
Down that left channel. Oh, that'd be fun.
2:30:11
Yeah, this is Widowmaker Rapid and.
2:30:13
The main. The main line is down the right
2:30:15
side of of the island and then cutting left and avoiding all
2:30:21
the shell rocks along the right. But there's also a channel down
2:30:25
the left side of the island that Hammer and I did a first descent
2:30:29
on last week. Yeah, we did in the shredder.
2:30:32
Yeah. It was so much fun I'd I had.
2:30:33
Never been down that side in my 35.
2:30:36
Years of living on this river and it was so much fun.
2:30:41
It was so cool to be in a in a new craft.
2:30:44
I'd never been. In this kind of boat and and to
2:30:47
do a a new little stint was so fun, persistent.
2:30:56
Man, all the memories, like all you.
2:30:59
Know like you can think back and you can.
2:31:00
I don't know remember like this participant.
2:31:05
Like nailing? The line not participant getting
2:31:09
stuck on the other. Side of the ledges or.
2:31:11
Swimming and I don't know, just kind of all of the chaos and all
2:31:17
the excitement are like getting to the takeout, coming around
2:31:20
and seeing like folks just swimming and enjoying the water
2:31:25
or practicing. Their.
2:31:26
Roles or families hanging out and fishing.
2:31:31
It's just the river gives just so much.
2:31:35
Life and good. Experiences and I don't know
2:31:39
what it is. I think.
2:31:40
You can take anybody like adult child, like, and just put him in
2:31:45
the water and like just the fun and the play and it just like
2:31:51
comes out. Yeah, in a lot of ways, it's
2:31:54
where we belong as. As humans is is in or by the
2:32:00
water. We we are water.
2:32:02
We are what? However, whatever percentage of
2:32:05
water, 70% or whatever. And yeah, the water is is life.
2:32:11
It's all the things that it brings with it, like looking at
2:32:15
those rafts. And multi days and connecting
2:32:19
with people and. Sleeping under the.
2:32:22
Stars and eating good food, retelling your stories, getting
2:32:28
getting tossed and having to recover.
2:32:31
And. Find your breath and and
2:32:33
overcome that fear that so easily could push you away from
2:32:40
continuing to be connected to water.
2:32:42
But saying no, OK, that was maybe that was user error or OK,
2:32:47
how can I do that differently to avoid that upset next time?
2:32:52
And what did I do wrong? But yeah, was it me?
2:32:57
Was it? Did I hit?
2:32:58
Did I hit the? Wave.
2:32:59
Wrong. Did I have?
2:33:00
My boat turned the wrong way. Was it just timing?
2:33:04
Did it? Was it just bad timing or you
2:33:06
can run like the same rapid like 100 times and?
2:33:10
Then for whatever reason, like one day, you just take it for
2:33:14
granted or stop paying attention and it the river has a way of
2:33:17
just being. Like.
2:33:18
What? Bitch where I am, don't take me
2:33:21
for granted. Yep, that was I'm.
2:33:25
Still a force in nature? Uh huh.
2:33:27
Don't you're not that's I think the river will always remind you
2:33:31
that you're not, you're not the most powerful being like human,
2:33:36
human evolution has kind of led us to think that we are the the
2:33:42
top of the food food chain, the most macho powerful force.
2:33:46
But the river, the water, the force of water will always
2:33:51
defeat us. It gets me every time.
2:33:54
I'll be like, oh, I'm, I'm feeling confident in my
2:33:57
kayaking. Skills, I'm just going to take
2:33:59
whatever boat like I because I can pedal any boat and then I'll
2:34:02
pick up a different boat or I'll take a new line because I'm
2:34:05
like, oh, I got this. I'm going to do I'm going to do
2:34:07
this other thing because I'm like overconfident and it's
2:34:10
always like wrong. No, Yep.
2:34:16
OK, gambling. When every.
2:34:19
I feel like every. Time I start to get
2:34:21
overconfident. Cocky on the water?
2:34:24
Yep, River comes back and says sit down.
2:34:29
I just like. Man, when am I going to get
2:34:30
there? Yeah.
2:34:34
What am I? Going to be there.
2:34:36
Like how many times do I have to learn this?
2:34:39
Lesson. Always learning, always growing.
2:34:43
Anytime I'm like OK. There's like.
2:34:46
Something I need to work out in my life.
2:34:48
I go to the river, I go to the river and that's where
2:34:51
everything just like resettles starts to make sense.
2:34:55
Even in the the like conversation around I need to
2:34:59
start kayaking more. OK, well, the where am I
2:35:03
unavailable in my life? I'm I have this fear of like and
2:35:09
my messy parts not being loved and accepted, but the river
2:35:13
loves and accepts my messy parts doesn't care and doesn't care
2:35:16
and I'm safe and and welcomed and loved here still gives you
2:35:20
all the deals yeah and I never never alone on the river
2:35:23
because. You're floating.
2:35:24
And then there's. There's your friends come
2:35:27
floating by dog, it's so cool. The river communities, yeah, the
2:35:35
the river community is. It's special.
2:35:38
It's like FD but outside of FD. You know, like.
2:35:42
Everyone has shares the same love and it doesn't matter who
2:35:46
you are or your quirkiness or like whatever, like you just all
2:35:50
take care of each other and yeah, enjoy each.
2:35:53
Other's. Company look out for one
2:35:56
another. That's kind of I like, I like
2:35:58
the river family, yeah. And.
2:36:00
It's all it feels like a core part of it.
2:36:03
Is is fun, is play, and that's why anybody at any age can do it
2:36:09
and should do it because it it brings so much fun.
2:36:13
You don't you don't have to have skills and perfection as long as
2:36:16
you're having fun. Yeah, like I've we're we're
2:36:20
experts, but I see people going down in in nothing and they're
2:36:26
having a wonderful time. And.
2:36:28
They have, they have a relationship with the river and
2:36:31
a relationship with themselves because of the river and can't
2:36:34
fault them for that. And you don't get better without
2:36:37
doing the thing right like you got to.
2:36:40
I think that's one thing we all appreciate.
2:36:41
Like you got to start, you got to start somewhere.
2:36:44
Like we're all willing to be, you know, like yesterday, like,
2:36:47
oh, like you just had this amazing week on the river.
2:36:50
Do you want to go paddle, like, taking people under their wings
2:36:53
so that they can grow their skills?
2:36:55
And yeah, yeah, I gotta start somewhere.
2:36:57
Nobody starts out an expert. Oh my God.
2:36:59
Nope. Nope.
2:37:00
None of you gotta. You gotta fuck up along the way.
2:37:02
Yeah, that's. The funny thing?
2:37:03
Sometimes I'm like. OK, you've been paddling for
2:37:05
what? 4 hours now and you can't get
2:37:07
your. Boat to go straight like I can't
2:37:08
even always go straight I've been doing this for like 20 some
2:37:11
years like I still swim like it's OK like don't don't think
2:37:16
you can skip that part yeah exactly cuz you can't yeah and
2:37:20
you're not you're not gonna avoid it forever it's going to
2:37:23
keep coming back to. You that lesson of like we're
2:37:25
all between swims, it's just a matter of time as as a rafter,
2:37:30
we're all between flips. It's just a matter of time.
2:37:32
It could be days, weeks, months, years.
2:37:35
I haven't flipped since I was 16.
2:37:41
And so, you know, I'm probably probably.
2:37:43
Due for something, but if I keep doing.
2:37:45
Easy water probably won't happen, but I don't.
2:37:48
Yeah. Thank you.
2:37:50
Thank you. Yeah, it's, it's just a matter
2:37:55
of time. It'll happen eventually.
2:37:57
That's where you get good stories.
2:37:58
Yeah, I love you. OK.
2:38:02
Thank you I. Love you.
2:38:04
Thank. You.
2:38:04
I love you. OK.
2:38:06
Thanks everyone, hope you enjoy the show.
2:38:08
See you. Next time.
2:38:10
All right, wildly wonders. That's a wrap.
2:38:12
Thank you. Thank you.
2:38:13
Thank. You for hanging out with.
2:38:14
Us on the Go Wildly podcast. Seriously.
2:38:17
Your ears, your energy, your vibe, aiming the world.
2:38:21
And hey, the pot is usually going to drop on Mondays.
2:38:23
But let's be real, sometimes it's Tuesday and sometimes laugh
2:38:27
be life in and the river calls louder than our calendar.
2:38:29
Baby, we out there adventuring. Either way, we'll show up in
2:38:33
your feed with stories that make you want to lace up your boots
2:38:36
or paddle out. So please go ahead and do all
2:38:38
the things like share, comment, subscribe, smash the buttons,
2:38:42
click all the bells, throw us a bone on YouTube and come play
2:38:46
with us on socials. That's how our little adventure
2:38:49
family grows. Quit staring at your phone or
2:38:52
whatever you're doing and go jump in a river, a touch a tree,
2:38:55
climb a tree, howl at the moon, or whatever gets you out there.
2:38:58
Until next time. Stay.
2:39:00
Feral, stay curious and for the love of dirt, go wildly.
2:39:05
We're going to meet you out there.