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Happy Hour #38: The Cold War · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
0:07
Speaker 1: I never told you production of iHeart Radio. It is
0:18
Speaker 1: time for another Happy Hour. Thank you for joining us.
0:23
Speaker 1: We hope that you get to take this moment to
0:24
Speaker 1: relax however you would like. If you are drinking, please
0:28
Speaker 1: drink responsible no matter what it is. Peek behind the curtain.
0:31
Speaker 1: We are recording two Happy Hours back to back. Oh so,
0:36
Speaker 1: this is kind of a teaser because this one's going
0:39
Speaker 1: to come first. Oh so, this is kind of a spoiler.
0:44
Speaker 1: But we are going to be talking about a beer
0:46
Speaker 1: called Brave Noise, which has a really interesting story behind it.
0:51
Speaker 1: And this is from local brewery where you used to work, Samantha,
0:55
Speaker 1: Orpheus Brewing. Very great company, supportive people, good friends, still
1:01
Speaker 1: see them, love them. Hey, hello, listen to you. That
1:06
Speaker 1: was Orpheous. I was saying hey too. I was saying
1:09
Speaker 1: hello as well. Responding to me, I was also saying hello,
1:19
Speaker 1: thank you very much. But it is a tall boy,
1:21
Speaker 1: so we thought we were just just continue on to
1:25
Speaker 1: drink it. It's very delicious. It's a pale ale. This
1:28
Speaker 1: is how we were drinking responsibly ourselves instead of trying
1:30
Speaker 1: to do several drinks in the show, We're like, this
1:33
Speaker 1: is a big boy, but we're gonna we'll go through
1:35
Speaker 1: two episodes with it. Yeah, I wondering we should we
1:39
Speaker 1: should look into some of those terms in the alcohol
1:42
Speaker 1: industry that may or may not be sexist. Probably are
1:45
Speaker 1: tall boy would be interesting, but that is for the
1:49
Speaker 1: next half houri. We will dig into this beer and
1:52
Speaker 1: all the amazing work that is behind it. For this one,
1:56
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about something that I called the
1:58
Speaker 1: Cold War. Would love to know if you have a
2:01
Speaker 1: term for it, or any listeners, if you have a
2:03
Speaker 1: term for it, if you do something similar. I know
2:06
Speaker 1: I've discussed it before, but this is the Cold War
2:11
Speaker 1: is a sort of precaution that I put in place
2:14
Speaker 1: wherein I do not initiate contact with straight men in
2:18
Speaker 1: heterosexual relationships, even if we are really good friends. I
2:22
Speaker 1: sometimes break this rule when I am drunk, or if
2:24
Speaker 1: there's something relevant, like like an event we're both you know,
2:28
Speaker 1: involved in, or something something where it's clear we've already
2:33
Speaker 1: had kind of a pre established understanding we're both interested
2:36
Speaker 1: in it, then I will slip up. But in general
2:38
Speaker 1: I do not do it anymore. And this is probably
2:41
Speaker 1: within the past five years, I've instituted this, so I
2:44
Speaker 1: let the men in this control when and how to
2:48
Speaker 1: contact me as an Instagram, Twitter, text, whatever that is.
2:56
Speaker 1: And my therapist recently pointed out, like how very sad
3:00
Speaker 1: this might be. I feel like it's okay, so and
3:06
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to come back to all of this
3:07
Speaker 1: because it's opening up so much. But this is also
3:11
Speaker 1: that same conversation of keeping safe, And in my head,
3:18
Speaker 1: it was never a big thing because I know what
3:20
Speaker 1: you're talking about, and in my world I didn't have
3:22
Speaker 1: a title for this because I didn't necessarily do this,
3:25
Speaker 1: It just didn't happen. I guess you can say I
3:28
Speaker 1: am a girl's girl, meaning that I will always lean
3:32
Speaker 1: towards being loyal to the ladies. I am one of
3:37
Speaker 1: the weird ones that have always felt that way, maybe
3:40
Speaker 1: because I just did not care about relationships growing up
3:42
Speaker 1: and or watched all the bad relationships. I don't know,
3:45
Speaker 1: but many times or it would turn on the women,
3:48
Speaker 1: like how women just really hated each other. When a
3:51
Speaker 1: cheating situation happened and it involved two women and one men,
3:54
Speaker 1: it was such a weird thing that the guy came
3:56
Speaker 1: out of the squeaky clean that like, what is happening,
4:00
Speaker 1: but all of that is safe. When it came to
4:02
Speaker 1: married Ben, being young, I was very naive and thinking
4:06
Speaker 1: that just didn't happen. Why would they contact me? Why
4:10
Speaker 1: would I contact with them? If you have a wife,
4:13
Speaker 1: I'm probably or if you're in a long term relationship
4:16
Speaker 1: with a woman or the partner rather, I am probably
4:19
Speaker 1: going to contact them first. Like that's never been a
4:22
Speaker 1: thing for me. Now, of course that's different for me
4:27
Speaker 1: for like long term friendship friendships. So I do have
4:30
Speaker 1: a couple of guy friends that I've never talked to
4:32
Speaker 1: the girlfriends beforehand maybe and so therefore, yeah, it's but
4:36
Speaker 1: it's not like I have intimate conversations with them. So
4:41
Speaker 1: they're like, it's just that seems like off limits to me.
4:43
Speaker 1: And when I say intimate conversations that could be also casual,
4:46
Speaker 1: how you doing? Like that seems ran into me other
4:49
Speaker 1: than if we're all checking up on each other as
4:51
Speaker 1: a group, right right, It's it's funny and kind of
4:58
Speaker 1: upsetting how this is still Like I only just watched
5:03
Speaker 1: when Harry met Sally for the show, and that's one
5:06
Speaker 1: of the key points of that movie, is like Ken
5:09
Speaker 1: men and women have platonic relationships. Like only two years ago,
5:13
Speaker 1: a good male friend of mine asked me this and
5:15
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, we're friends, aren't we bt doves. This
5:19
Speaker 1: is a sex in the City episode. I think it's
5:24
Speaker 1: called the Cold War. Oh my gosh, some kind of
5:27
Speaker 1: reference to it. Oh, I thought I came up with it,
5:30
Speaker 1: because it's like it's a weird power dynamic in a
5:33
Speaker 1: strange way too. But it's like I'm not going to
5:36
Speaker 1: contact you until you contact me, and you're kind of
5:38
Speaker 1: feeling out the other person. This makes it sound like
5:41
Speaker 1: I've had a million instances of this. It is actually
5:44
Speaker 1: called the Cold War. Oh my god, I thought I
5:47
Speaker 1: came up with that. Sex in the City beat me
5:50
Speaker 1: to it once again once again. Yeah, I think it's
5:55
Speaker 1: such a weird aspect because this whole like I don't
5:59
Speaker 1: contact too is also for me the mind game that
6:03
Speaker 1: I have when I'm dating someone new. I won't be
6:06
Speaker 1: the first one that I won't be he has to
6:08
Speaker 1: show me he's interested in first, and not because I'm
6:10
Speaker 1: a woman. It's just because I don't want to be
6:12
Speaker 1: seen as overbearing or too eager, right, No, totally, that's
6:18
Speaker 1: I feel that too, And it's just funny how much
6:22
Speaker 1: thought goes into sending your like smiley face text, like
6:25
Speaker 1: when do you send it out? You send it? What
6:28
Speaker 1: gift or meme just platonic? And what gifted meme are like, yeah,
6:33
Speaker 1: I take my pants off exactly. These are the questions.
6:36
Speaker 1: These are the questions. I tried to explain this to
6:40
Speaker 1: my mom once and the look she gave me was
6:42
Speaker 1: one of clearly she had no idea what I was
6:46
Speaker 1: talking about. So this whole cold war thing is something
7:05
Speaker 1: I started doing after I did get burned several times
7:09
Speaker 1: of thinking, yes, this guy is in a stable relationship
7:11
Speaker 1: like you, Samantha, like I'm good. Because of that, there
7:16
Speaker 1: can be no misinterpretation of flirting, even though like I'm
7:22
Speaker 1: not flirting. But this is again like when we're going
7:24
Speaker 1: back to how we victim blame women or how like
7:28
Speaker 1: if something, if you attract unwanted attention, then a lot
7:33
Speaker 1: of times you go back and you're like, well, what
7:34
Speaker 1: did I do? Was it some signal license? And that
7:37
Speaker 1: very question was it some signal license is one of
7:39
Speaker 1: the things I was like, Okay, I want to stop.
7:42
Speaker 1: I don't even want to risk sending the signal and
7:46
Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about very that's serious, but in
7:49
Speaker 1: general this is kind of silly, but it is this
7:54
Speaker 1: has happened to me, and I felt so upset because
7:57
Speaker 1: then I started thinking like, well, was that all what
8:02
Speaker 1: all of this was about the whole time? And then
8:04
Speaker 1: I felt like I'm monster because I ruined their relationship
8:08
Speaker 1: even though I didn't, but I felt like I did.
8:11
Speaker 1: And so because of all of this, I just started
8:16
Speaker 1: to I want to remove that from the table. And
8:19
Speaker 1: it is sad because I I do have a lot
8:21
Speaker 1: of dude friends that I'm really close to and in
8:25
Speaker 1: the industry that we work in, and it is predominant Lehman,
8:29
Speaker 1: and I am friends with a lot of our coworkers.
8:31
Speaker 1: Fortunately I'm very lucky in that regard. But I don't,
8:34
Speaker 1: I think twice, I don't I want to get send
8:39
Speaker 1: any message that could be misinterpreted. And I've also been
8:44
Speaker 1: called naive for assuming like okay in a stable relationship,
8:50
Speaker 1: at least to my appearance, heterosexual relationship usually, But I
8:54
Speaker 1: don't really know how I feel about that, because that
8:55
Speaker 1: feels like it's either assuming that people are platonic relationships
8:59
Speaker 1: aren't possible. Our relationships just aren't meant to last. I
9:04
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I get I am naive, but
9:06
Speaker 1: I do think that's such a weird thing to We're
9:12
Speaker 1: just like, oh yeah, just be just interested in having
9:15
Speaker 1: sex with you, Like right, you know this is like,
9:19
Speaker 1: first of all, you feel like, as a person who
9:22
Speaker 1: was taught to be humble, why would you think that
9:26
Speaker 1: about yourself? And like to think that about yourself is
9:29
Speaker 1: feeling very narcissistic, and so I'm like, I wouldn't think
9:32
Speaker 1: that about myself. But yeah, but I'm with you and
9:34
Speaker 1: that Yeah, but I don't want to come in thinking
9:38
Speaker 1: that dude's a bad dude without knowing that and assuming
9:41
Speaker 1: that way. Again, I also had this weird rule, and
9:44
Speaker 1: I remember with some of the guy friends that I
9:46
Speaker 1: had that I wanted to remain close. I was like,
9:48
Speaker 1: I really hope you date someone you you end up
9:50
Speaker 1: with someone that we both like, because if she doesn't
9:52
Speaker 1: like me, I will be around. I can't be around.
9:56
Speaker 1: I know this because I will not be whatever reason,
9:59
Speaker 1: I will not be contingent in your relationship. So that
10:02
Speaker 1: that was, and I've been fortunate that most of my
10:04
Speaker 1: friends have had great people in their lives. So I'm like, cool, cool, cool.
10:09
Speaker 1: Of course some of them we had to work some
10:10
Speaker 1: things out, but like because there was this obviously like
10:13
Speaker 1: you've been around and I think you know this for
10:15
Speaker 1: the long term friendships. If I've been around longer than
10:19
Speaker 1: you and you have these inside jokes, there's this moment
10:22
Speaker 1: of feeling alienated and what does that mean? And is
10:27
Speaker 1: it jealousy or is it just feeling insecure? It could
10:33
Speaker 1: be one of the same, to be fair, Yeah, that's true.
10:38
Speaker 1: There are those things like that. And we've talked before
10:40
Speaker 1: about how again sort of a joke, but you know
10:44
Speaker 1: when your friend gets married or has kids, sort of like, well,
10:47
Speaker 1: it was nice knowing you. Well I did right, right,
10:51
Speaker 1: So there's some elements to that. I do think, and
10:54
Speaker 1: this is for a bigger episode, but I do think
10:58
Speaker 1: there's an element of a lot of times when this happens.
11:03
Speaker 1: I'm in the examples I'm thinking of, I am younger
11:08
Speaker 1: and or nerdier, and I don't. I just don't. I'm
11:12
Speaker 1: not interested, And for some reason, I think that interests
11:14
Speaker 1: people like I don't know. There's a whole level too.
11:20
Speaker 1: For me, I was a nanny, so as a woman
11:22
Speaker 1: of color being a nanny, it was almost the stereotype
11:25
Speaker 1: and assumption of not only are you this, but you're
11:28
Speaker 1: for the use of this. So it was weird, like
11:31
Speaker 1: and it happened a lot, but this to me happened
11:34
Speaker 1: the most in that situation of being a nanny, And
11:37
Speaker 1: it was a weird like why are you sexualizing me
11:40
Speaker 1: in such a way that I was like I've gotten advance,
11:43
Speaker 1: Like someone kissed me and I was like, what is happening?
11:46
Speaker 1: And his fiance was like down the hallway and I
11:49
Speaker 1: was like, what are you doing? And I had to
11:51
Speaker 1: pull away and of course, like they were drunk. It's
11:53
Speaker 1: an excuse, like, and I've had like bad situations that
11:56
Speaker 1: I'm like, I thought this was going in a completely
11:58
Speaker 1: different way, what is happening. So there's definitely moments of
12:02
Speaker 1: that that happened, But again, it was weirdly enough most
12:06
Speaker 1: of the time when I was a nanny. And I
12:09
Speaker 1: think that's a whole independent conversation that we could dive into.
12:12
Speaker 1: We're not going to right now, but yeah, like that
12:14
Speaker 1: was just this vulnerable level of like this is who
12:17
Speaker 1: you are. Yeah, And I think there's also a layer of, um,
12:25
Speaker 1: the cool girl conversation of if you're not like obviously
12:29
Speaker 1: when you're in a long term relationship with someone. It's
12:31
Speaker 1: not what we see often in media. So if you're
12:38
Speaker 1: it's strange to put myself in this mindset. But it's
12:41
Speaker 1: almost like going on a vacation where it was like, Oh,
12:43
Speaker 1: this looks so much better because she doesn't come with
12:45
Speaker 1: all this baggage. Perhaps, but she does. You just don't
12:47
Speaker 1: know it because you're right in a long term relationship
12:50
Speaker 1: with her. Right. And then again, this is something that
12:54
Speaker 1: I have learned from and no longer naive and automatically
12:57
Speaker 1: assume the worst about men, and we're not doing the
13:01
Speaker 1: all not all men. I don't want to hear that.
13:03
Speaker 1: Don't give me that. But the lesson in this is Okay,
13:06
Speaker 1: it's happened more than once to the point that people
13:10
Speaker 1: I had trusted and thought could be trustworthy, we're not.
13:14
Speaker 1: And so therefore I will not put myself in this
13:16
Speaker 1: situation ever again. Right, it's another situation where we're putting
13:34
Speaker 1: the onus on women on ourselves. Two remove ourselves from
13:42
Speaker 1: the situation. And that is touching on like that whole like, oh,
13:47
Speaker 1: I couldn't resist because did you see what she was wearing?
13:49
Speaker 1: And all of these things where it's being nice to me,
13:54
Speaker 1: exactly mild at me, you listen to me. People don't
14:00
Speaker 1: do that unless they're interested, right, romantically, it's sexually interested that. Yes,
14:07
Speaker 1: it's reached the point where we put in protections like
14:10
Speaker 1: this one. I'm also thinking of the woman in this
14:13
Speaker 1: heterosexual relationship, who I often know but not as well,
14:16
Speaker 1: but I don't want her to be like wondering about
14:18
Speaker 1: what my intentions are. And I think it just points
14:21
Speaker 1: to a whole host of problems around these stereotypes about
14:24
Speaker 1: how we perceive every interaction between men and women as
14:27
Speaker 1: romantic and sort of his general culture of understanding that
14:31
Speaker 1: men gonna cheat, but somehow, at the same time, the
14:34
Speaker 1: woman is being paranoid. I think the pressure to not
14:37
Speaker 1: be that paranoid girlfriend leads to some women, yeah, swallowing
14:40
Speaker 1: their words, that never voicing them. And that is another
14:43
Speaker 1: reason why I'm like, well, I'm just not gonna my hands.
14:47
Speaker 1: Removed myself from the situation, right, And of course the
14:51
Speaker 1: sex and the city go into it is different than this,
14:54
Speaker 1: for sure, but it is that distrust between singles and
14:58
Speaker 1: married women. That's the kind of conversation. But again, it's
15:02
Speaker 1: that whole level of pitting women against women. That that's
15:05
Speaker 1: kind of that bigger narrative of like what is this
15:08
Speaker 1: and why is it that? Again women are responsible and
15:11
Speaker 1: or women are the angry ones, or women are at fault,
15:15
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like, why are we putting all
15:17
Speaker 1: this on women? And this is why we have a
15:20
Speaker 1: complicated relationship in trusting our own On top of that, yes, yes,
15:26
Speaker 1: there there's so much, so much going on with this,
15:30
Speaker 1: like social media to all life in place look so much.
15:35
Speaker 1: It's true, but I have I have been burned before,
15:39
Speaker 1: like shocked, and then you feel terrible and you start thinking,
15:45
Speaker 1: well did I lead them on? And I've gone back
15:47
Speaker 1: through every message before and like, oh my god, I
15:50
Speaker 1: didn't mean for it to be interpreted that way, and
15:52
Speaker 1: just feel awful and that that's more of that victim
15:56
Speaker 1: blaming stuff, and so I just it is sad. I'll
16:03
Speaker 1: like compose a message and then delete it. I feel
16:06
Speaker 1: like I can't be open and it makes me not
16:11
Speaker 1: trust myself and my own understanding of how people and
16:16
Speaker 1: particularly men in this case, perceive me and the value
16:18
Speaker 1: they place on me. And Samantha knows, sometimes I get
16:22
Speaker 1: the urge to do what I call relationship audits where
16:24
Speaker 1: I'll show like a woman like, look look at these sticks.
16:27
Speaker 1: I've never done anything suspicious, which is messed that is
16:33
Speaker 1: messed up. But I just want I don't want to
16:38
Speaker 1: mess I don't want to mess up with the relationship.
16:40
Speaker 1: I don't want to be perceived as flirting or cause issues.
16:44
Speaker 1: And it's happened so many times now, and I know
16:48
Speaker 1: it's not my fault, but it feels like it. I'll
16:51
Speaker 1: even like one time, I like frantically told a woman
16:55
Speaker 1: like I'm a sexual, you don't have to worry about me,
16:59
Speaker 1: which is do a fit and awful. I mean, there's
17:03
Speaker 1: those moments of having to be I know, for a
17:05
Speaker 1: lot of the LGBTQ a sexual, I'm a lesbian, I'm bisexual,
17:09
Speaker 1: and you know, like I am in a relationship, I'm polyamorous,
17:11
Speaker 1: so we are like that, you're you know in this
17:13
Speaker 1: level of like, don't fear this title. Feared this title
17:18
Speaker 1: like this's is like you have to put it on
17:19
Speaker 1: in order for the people to see you correctly. Yeah, well,
17:25
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate because it is both true and also shouldn't
17:29
Speaker 1: have to be used as a basically like excuse for example,
17:36
Speaker 1: or just being able to be like, no, this is
17:38
Speaker 1: my lifestyle, doesn't have to be for your standards, This
17:41
Speaker 1: is my standards, but have to explain it being yeah,
17:46
Speaker 1: and then you know a lot of times and my
17:49
Speaker 1: experience will get the inevitable no, you aren't, like you
17:52
Speaker 1: are using that as this excuse, which you are, but
17:55
Speaker 1: it's true, right, And we've talked about how messed up
17:59
Speaker 1: that whole thing is. And I've been thinking about this
18:01
Speaker 1: a lot lately because we talked about it in our
18:03
Speaker 1: past book club on a sexual and I just read
18:05
Speaker 1: this book called dub Coot and it talks about like
18:08
Speaker 1: if no has no value, then what the hell are
18:11
Speaker 1: we talking about? Like it has to be a legitimate
18:13
Speaker 1: answer that we respect. But anyway, so much it is
18:20
Speaker 1: in speaking of it's not like this thing can't happen
18:23
Speaker 1: gay relationships. But for some reason, I am far less
18:25
Speaker 1: worried when it comes to texting a woman in a
18:28
Speaker 1: relationship with another woman about then misinterpreting what I'm doing.
18:31
Speaker 1: And I think that says a lot as well. I
18:34
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of cautiousness in general and gay
18:38
Speaker 1: relationships that there's so much steam about if you're gay,
18:42
Speaker 1: that means you attracted to all of that retracted so
18:45
Speaker 1: that you all of them and you're having to like
18:47
Speaker 1: show real quickly. No, no, no, that's not how this works.
18:50
Speaker 1: So I feel like people are already on alert, so
18:52
Speaker 1: therefore they're also just as cautious. Yeah, yeah, I think
19:00
Speaker 1: this is a lot has all my mind for this
19:03
Speaker 1: happy hour, But there's so much we can compact that
19:06
Speaker 1: this is simple like text. And I know that this controversial,
19:12
Speaker 1: but I have had friends that have cheated, still friends
19:15
Speaker 1: with them. I don't think cheating is right. It hurts me.
19:18
Speaker 1: It has hurt me more than once, like deeply hurt
19:21
Speaker 1: me more than once. But it does take at least
19:23
Speaker 1: two to tango it off, and I see, I can
19:25
Speaker 1: see how things happen. If it's like a repeated action,
19:30
Speaker 1: then that's when I'm like, mmmm right, But it's it's
19:34
Speaker 1: extremely hurtful for sure. And I've become so worried about
19:37
Speaker 1: playing a part in someone's relationship falling apart, or even
19:42
Speaker 1: just the thought people thinking that I might have cheated,
19:45
Speaker 1: especially the woman in this case thinking that I might
19:47
Speaker 1: have been cheating, that I've just removed myself, and I'm
19:51
Speaker 1: so worried about the perceived intentions from everyone involved. It's
19:55
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate. It's so it's on one level, it is
19:59
Speaker 1: kind of silly. It's like I could just shut it down,
20:02
Speaker 1: I guess, but it is hurtful, you know, it's at
20:05
Speaker 1: the moment when you are like, oh, that's what this was, right,
20:10
Speaker 1: But that's the other part is you don't quite know,
20:12
Speaker 1: you don't want to assume. And also just because you
20:15
Speaker 1: say you're not doesn't mean they're gonna believe you. Right,
20:18
Speaker 1: that's true. I mean, it's just upsetting on a lot
20:21
Speaker 1: of and I hate that this is the case. And
20:25
Speaker 1: I think that it's like another outcome of our like
20:28
Speaker 1: grape culture and how we see romance in the media
20:31
Speaker 1: and what we expect of more versus what we expect
20:33
Speaker 1: of women, and a lot of other things like that.
20:35
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's ridiculous that I think I cannot
20:40
Speaker 1: text a straight man without my intentions being misinterpreted. So
20:47
Speaker 1: cheers to the Cold maybe ending it one day, yes, yes,
20:53
Speaker 1: hopefully we can. We can reach a happy end to
20:57
Speaker 1: the Cold War. In the meantime, Listeners, if you have
21:00
Speaker 1: any thoughts like this, if you have a name for
21:01
Speaker 1: a similar system that you have, please email it to us.
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Speaker 1: Our email is Stuff Media Mom Stuff at i heeart
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Speaker 1: media dot com. You can find us on Twitter at
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Speaker 1: mom stub podcast or Instagram and Stuff I've Never Told You.
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Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, Thank you,
21:16
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You.
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Speaker 1: Use the production of by Heart Radio. For more podcast
21:20
Speaker 1: on my heart Radio is the heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
21:23
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.