Latest / The Week in Bible Prophecy / The History of the Two-State Solution | Graham Keelan

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The History of the Two-State Solution | Graham Keelan · The Week in Bible Prophecy

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Speaker 1: The Week in Bible Prophecy, a Prophecy Watchers podcast.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to the program today, Monal Gonzalez. Here in studio,
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Speaker 2: we have our good friend from England, Graham kealing with us.
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Speaker 2: And Graham that was here just a few weeks ago
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Speaker 2: and we were doing some really some messages on the
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Speaker 2: state of Israel. We talked about the Israel dilemma, and
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Speaker 2: we also talked about just the nature of apartheid and
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Speaker 2: how Graham had grown up in South Africa and so
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Speaker 2: he's got first end experience about that. But the key
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Speaker 2: thing for all this as it relates to the nation
0:35
Speaker 2: of Israel is that there's so much confusion. And so
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Speaker 2: this is why I love hanging out with Graham and
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Speaker 2: chatting with him about really the history, because what we're
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Speaker 2: going to see today is most people, most politicians and
0:48
Speaker 2: states and the United Nations, etc. They always talk about
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Speaker 2: the two states solution, and we want to give a
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Speaker 2: history of that, of where it came from, why it's
0:57
Speaker 2: still being spoken of, but also just really the problems
1:02
Speaker 2: that are the ramifications from the problems of what that
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Speaker 2: might look like.
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Speaker 3: And so here we are Graham.
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Speaker 1: Welcome, Thank you, mon Though good to join you again.
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Speaker 2: It's always good now and this is important too because
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Speaker 2: you have behind you three flags, which I'd love for
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Speaker 2: you to share about that, because that really does lead
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Speaker 2: to the foundation of going all the way back to
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Speaker 2: the middle of last century, in the beginnings even before
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Speaker 2: the state of Israel, and the importance of those three
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Speaker 2: flags in those three countries.
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Speaker 1: Indeed, so we're continuing because when I was in studio
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Speaker 1: with you last time, so we're continuing Anglo American Summit
1:46
Speaker 1: Prophecy Summit concerning the nation of Israel. So people might
1:52
Speaker 1: be aware, might not be aware, but my nation particular,
1:55
Speaker 1: the story is pretty much our story for about two
2:02
Speaker 1: really from the time of Cromwell, so you know, sixteen
2:06
Speaker 1: forties when he first release it lets the Jews back in,
2:10
Speaker 1: and then the idea of the restoration movement through the
2:13
Speaker 1: Evangelical movement, and then that gives birth to the modern
2:17
Speaker 1: to an evangelical Zionist movement before there's even a Jewish
2:21
Speaker 1: Zionist movement. So you know that is going on from
2:24
Speaker 1: the let's say, from the Puritans, particularly John Owen. We
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Speaker 1: did another series on this Mondo where we looked at that.
2:31
Speaker 1: So the Puritans, the evangelicals, the age of you know,
2:35
Speaker 1: the Restorationist movement, so that you know, the late second
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Speaker 1: half of the sixteen hundreds, the seventeen hundreds, the eighteen hundreds,
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Speaker 1: and then are going all the way really up until
2:46
Speaker 1: you know, we get those pivotal dates, you know, the
2:48
Speaker 1: Baffle Declaration in nineteen seventeen. So I put all that
2:53
Speaker 1: type it's predominantly a British story, and then what we
2:57
Speaker 1: will have is the Americans then come to play, and
3:01
Speaker 1: we're going to sort of like explore now that sort
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Speaker 1: of era, especially the Second World War, because this is
3:08
Speaker 1: where the two state solution begins to get a bit
3:13
Speaker 1: of traction amongst the great powers, because obviously, you know,
3:18
Speaker 1: the British have had the mandate since nineteen twenty nineteen
3:22
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two officially, but they've been controlling Palestine since
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Speaker 1: since nineteen seventeen effectively, so you know, they had had
3:34
Speaker 1: they'd had allowed Jewish immigration. Winston Churchill was a great
3:39
Speaker 1: player in this, so be could even in the twenties,
3:41
Speaker 1: we're going to see he continues to be a great
3:43
Speaker 1: player in the story all the way up until you know,
3:47
Speaker 1: the creation of the State of Israel or to nineteen
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Speaker 1: fifty nineteen fifty one. So we're going to look at
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Speaker 1: some of you know, some of his writers, because number one,
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Speaker 1: he's Prime Minister at the time of the Second World
3:57
Speaker 1: War and then he's ousted from office, but he's the
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Speaker 1: leader of the opposition from nineteen forty five to nineteen
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Speaker 1: fifty one. So again he's very much a pro Zionist,
4:07
Speaker 1: is very pro Jewish. She always has been all of
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Speaker 1: his life. So if we look at some of Churchill's
4:12
Speaker 1: letters and some of the discourses that he had with
4:15
Speaker 1: key figures, and then some of you know, his presentations
4:20
Speaker 1: in the House of Commons here, both as Prime Minister
4:24
Speaker 1: but mainly as leaders a leader of the opposition after
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Speaker 1: the war, and of course this is when his great
4:29
Speaker 1: friendship with Fdr Franklin delo or Roosevelt joined the war.
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Speaker 1: Even before the war in the thirties, they do have
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Speaker 1: a great friendship, and that begins to sort of create
4:44
Speaker 1: a bit of an Anglo American alliance, as it were,
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Speaker 1: which really hadn't existed before before this time, not to
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Speaker 1: such an extent. So yeah, so that's what we're gonna
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Speaker 1: look at, I think this time, and I hope people
4:58
Speaker 1: find it interesting and just like with us because you know, Mondo,
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Speaker 1: what you know, what we get sometimes people just I'm
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Speaker 1: a sticker for detail and for understanding the story, and
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Speaker 1: what we do have a lot of times is people
5:13
Speaker 1: just you know, throwing statements out. I'm for a two
5:15
Speaker 1: state solution. I'm against the two state solutions, but we
5:18
Speaker 1: have to realize that for the the Allied powers, the
5:21
Speaker 1: Western Powers particularly and the Western Nations, Israel's sponsor without question.
5:28
Speaker 1: The Soviets were you know, the Soviets. Stalin was actually
5:31
Speaker 1: the first to recognize the Jewish state, but for the
5:34
Speaker 1: most part, the West is Israel's sponsors and remained so
5:38
Speaker 1: to this day. So what we want to explore is
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Speaker 1: why this insistence on the two state solution, where it
5:45
Speaker 1: is born, why it was born, and you know, and
5:49
Speaker 1: you know, in what intention was it born? Where they're
5:51
Speaker 1: good intentions, bad intentions, or mixed intentions. So that's where
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Speaker 1: we're going to go.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then ultimately we will end up discussing kind
6:00
Speaker 2: the reality on the ground today in modern times of
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Speaker 2: whether a two state solution, what it looks like I
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Speaker 2: think for each party, and what it looks like for
6:10
Speaker 2: the United Nations. Who was very much involved in the
6:13
Speaker 2: original idea of it, but then also is it even feasible?
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Speaker 3: Is this?
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Speaker 2: Are we destined for this antagonism and for a lack
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Speaker 2: of a true solution all the way until what the
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Speaker 2: Lord returns. So that's what we kind of want to
6:31
Speaker 2: do is kind of late lay the groundwork for some
6:33
Speaker 2: of this, but also discussed again not only history, but
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Speaker 2: the future and the and the current reality, which you know,
6:39
Speaker 2: we're what we've been seeing lately and again is just
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Speaker 2: more of the more of this contention that has come
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Speaker 2: to be. And it's to me, Graham, it comes down
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Speaker 2: to just Zacharai twelve that at the time of the end,
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Speaker 2: that God would make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all
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Speaker 2: nations of trembling, that all the nations would be gathered
7:03
Speaker 2: in some ways are being entangled with it. And so
7:06
Speaker 2: when we look at all the going from really the
7:10
Speaker 2: thirties on of last century, it's been almost one hundred years,
7:15
Speaker 2: and so we're seeing now that it's the contention is
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Speaker 2: still there and it's still not going to go away,
7:21
Speaker 2: because ultimately we know that God has a plan for Israel.
7:25
Speaker 2: They are not going to be kicked out of the
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Speaker 2: land no matter what anybody says, because God has a
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Speaker 2: purpose for them. That doesn't mean God agrees with everything
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Speaker 2: they're doing, but His purpose is to save them the
7:35
Speaker 2: national leadership, which that's their destiny, is to be saved
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Speaker 2: by the end of what we understand is the seventieth
7:42
Speaker 2: Week of Daniel. So all the machinations that are happening
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Speaker 2: now are just part of the process of that ultimate
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Speaker 2: salvation of Israel, according to Romans eleven twenty six. So,
7:52
Speaker 2: as Graham said, hang around because I think it's very
7:55
Speaker 2: interesting and it all will also give us, i think,
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Speaker 2: a reality check where it's been and where it's going.
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Speaker 3: So kind of lead us off here.
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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, thanks Mondo. So well, let's start in nineteen
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Speaker 1: forty five, so everybody will know that is the end
8:10
Speaker 1: of the Second World War. It's drawing to a close,
8:14
Speaker 1: and we see that there. You know, the Allies have
8:17
Speaker 1: fought against the Nazis. They've liberated the Jews from the camps,
8:21
Speaker 1: those who survived from the camps. Of course, this then
8:24
Speaker 1: is a great impetus in terms of creating a state
8:29
Speaker 1: for the Jews, because even like you know, during the
8:34
Speaker 1: mandate period the twenties and thirties, it really wasn't that
8:38
Speaker 1: you had You had your hardline hard causionists, but really
8:43
Speaker 1: most jury, most of world jury was not interested in
8:48
Speaker 1: in a in a Zionist state. They thought, why on
8:51
Speaker 1: earth do we want to go to the desert, you know,
8:53
Speaker 1: and to fulfill some biblical prophecies like they were. They
8:57
Speaker 1: were well established in in America, had a big Jewish
9:00
Speaker 1: community in America obviously, and in Europe too. Europe had
9:04
Speaker 1: the biggest Jewish community up up until the Holocaust, greater
9:10
Speaker 1: than than the United States. But so nineteen forty five,
9:15
Speaker 1: you know, begins there are like three independent Arab states,
9:19
Speaker 1: particularly Saudi Arabia or Egypt in Iraq, and they're kind
9:23
Speaker 1: of putting pressure on Britain and the United States concerning
9:29
Speaker 1: you know, what is the future of the Jews in Palestine.
9:32
Speaker 1: You know, what do you have have in mind? Because
9:36
Speaker 1: during the mandate period, this can is being kicked down
9:38
Speaker 1: the road time and time again, or at least the
9:41
Speaker 1: British are trying to, you know, trying to maintain some
9:45
Speaker 1: sort of order to bring to have the Arrows in
9:48
Speaker 1: the Jews living together, and they didn't succeed in the end,
9:51
Speaker 1: but you know, it wasn't all bad during the mandate period.
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Speaker 1: I think that's important to realize it was pretty You know,
9:58
Speaker 1: Israel has brought Stein was brought into the modern world.
10:02
Speaker 1: You know, new buildings, new technology, railways, everything. So Jerusalem,
10:08
Speaker 1: he literally was the new Jerusalem was being built during
10:11
Speaker 1: British mandate periods. So you know, great things happening there,
10:15
Speaker 1: but obviously the unrest within within the the different communities
10:20
Speaker 1: on who's actually going to controls. But Churchill in thirty
10:24
Speaker 1: forty five after this, you know, huge sort of what
10:33
Speaker 1: what's the word I'm looking for, There's huge effort to
10:36
Speaker 1: claim victory over over the over the Nazis, over over Germany.
10:40
Speaker 1: H he hasn't given he hasn't given way on his
10:44
Speaker 1: idea of a Zionist state. He's always thinking of a
10:46
Speaker 1: zion estate. And because he knows that there's there's about
10:51
Speaker 1: half a million Jews living in West Palestine. Where we
10:54
Speaker 1: talk about West Palestine, we're talking now west of the Jordan, right,
10:58
Speaker 1: So what we would consider considered now to be in
11:01
Speaker 1: the modern state of Israel, so that's called West Palestine,
11:05
Speaker 1: and it was just under a third of the Arab population.
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Speaker 1: So he knew that the Jews will be under the
11:11
Speaker 1: mercy of a mercy of a hostile Arab state, right
11:17
Speaker 1: in a hostile Arab majority. So he's wanting the Jews
11:21
Speaker 1: to be able to govern themselves. And he has a
11:26
Speaker 1: meeting with Roosevelt on the warship Quincy in February nineteen
11:32
Speaker 1: forty five. And I don't forget the Allies now advancing.
11:35
Speaker 1: They've done the D Day thing in forty four. They're
11:38
Speaker 1: advancing the war they know is going to be one,
11:40
Speaker 1: it's going to draw to a close. So they're planning
11:43
Speaker 1: now on this the post world order. And we have
11:46
Speaker 1: to remember we talked about these couple of flags here,
11:49
Speaker 1: so my nation and your nation we actually set the
11:52
Speaker 1: cornerstones for the world, the international order that we now
11:57
Speaker 1: live in. So after forty five, it was the Breton
12:01
Speaker 1: Woods here in England that set up the financial order.
12:04
Speaker 1: I hope people don't like the United Nations, but it
12:08
Speaker 1: wasn't then as it was now. We actually created the
12:11
Speaker 1: United Nations. The first the first meeting of the United
12:14
Speaker 1: Nations was actually in London, Saint James's Palace, and it
12:17
Speaker 1: was the Nations who were united against Nazi Germany. Of course,
12:20
Speaker 1: America at the time wasn't in the war, so this
12:22
Speaker 1: is about nineteen I think this is nineteen forty one,
12:26
Speaker 1: so it wasn't part of that initial grouping. And then
12:28
Speaker 1: when America enters into the war, this great friendship, and
12:32
Speaker 1: of course America brings all its economic might and manpower
12:36
Speaker 1: and weapony into the war. And so it's the it's
12:39
Speaker 1: the Anglo American partnership which kind of begins to set
12:45
Speaker 1: in motion the framework of the new world order effectively.
12:49
Speaker 1: So you know, the United Nations NATO, of course we
12:52
Speaker 1: are the family members of NATO.
12:55
Speaker 3: All the.
12:57
Speaker 1: Global tariff trade and tariff agreed, that's an Anglo American thing.
13:02
Speaker 1: So again, you know, we have to realize that the
13:04
Speaker 1: Allies winning the war and are we're talking principally now,
13:08
Speaker 1: you know, the Anglo American alliance is beginning to is
13:11
Speaker 1: beginning to create this new international order with which we
13:15
Speaker 1: him enjoyed living under for the last eighty years or
13:18
Speaker 1: so seventy five years, whatever the eighty years. And of
13:21
Speaker 1: course you know, the Palastine question is first and foremost too, right,
13:27
Speaker 1: So they have a meeting Mondo. And but before that,
13:32
Speaker 1: Churchill had had had said to King Ibn Saud. It's
13:35
Speaker 1: called Ibn Saud or Saudi Arabia to have a meeting
13:39
Speaker 1: with with Roosevelt also on the on his on the
13:42
Speaker 1: warship before Churchill, and apparently Roosevelt and and Ibn Saud
13:48
Speaker 1: spent many hours together and they had a discussion, but
13:52
Speaker 1: it didn't go very well in terms for Churchill's dream
13:55
Speaker 1: of a Jewish state. So here is what the King
13:58
Speaker 1: Ibn Saud. So this is fourteenth of February, he says
14:02
Speaker 1: to President Roosevelt on the Warship. He says, Arabs and
14:05
Speaker 1: Jews can never cooperate, neither in Palestine nor in any
14:08
Speaker 1: other country. What changed the whole picture was the immigration
14:12
Speaker 1: from Eastern Europe of people who were technically and culturally
14:16
Speaker 1: on a higher level than the Arabs, who had greater
14:18
Speaker 1: difficulty in surviving economically. That these energetic Europeans are Jewish
14:24
Speaker 1: is not the cause of the trouble. It is their
14:26
Speaker 1: superior skills and culture. So this is the Saudi Arabian
14:30
Speaker 1: king saying this. Right, he realized that a superior culture,
14:35
Speaker 1: superior people were coming in into Palestine. He was going
14:39
Speaker 1: to upset the balance of power. And then three days
14:43
Speaker 1: later even sourd rights to Winsor Churchill. He says, the
14:47
Speaker 1: Jews in Palestine are continuously increasing in number. They are
14:51
Speaker 1: even forming a sort of government of their own with
14:54
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister, a foreign minister, and ad Minister of Defense.
14:57
Speaker 1: They also had formed a military force of thirty thousand
15:00
Speaker 1: men with modern arms and equipment. They have thus become
15:03
Speaker 1: a great danger to the Arabs. The Arabs would fight
15:06
Speaker 1: the Jews, and even if they were not victorious, they
15:09
Speaker 1: would not mind because they would go to Paradise. I
15:11
Speaker 1: have continually advise moderation to the Arabs with regard to Palestine,
15:15
Speaker 1: but fear that a clash might come. So you know,
15:19
Speaker 1: the king, King Ibn Saud, he is he is an
15:25
Speaker 1: ally in terms of trying to trying to solve the
15:28
Speaker 1: Palestine issue, the Palestine problem. So and this is what
15:34
Speaker 1: Churchill says. Now in the twenty seventh of February that
15:36
Speaker 1: year forty five, he is in his speech to the
15:38
Speaker 1: House of Commons, he says the King soos Ap will
15:42
Speaker 1: be needed. I have hopes that when the war is
15:45
Speaker 1: over World War two, good arrangements can be made for
15:48
Speaker 1: securing the peace and progress of the Arab world and
15:52
Speaker 1: generally of the Middle East, and that Great Britain and
15:55
Speaker 1: the United States, which is taking an increasing interest in
15:59
Speaker 1: these regions, will be able to play a valuable part.
16:02
Speaker 1: So here we have got Churchill's optimism that he's seeing,
16:06
Speaker 1: you know this, this relationship here between this Anglo American
16:09
Speaker 1: relationship being able to sort of deal with the major
16:14
Speaker 1: issues in this new international order. The Arabs, of course,
16:18
Speaker 1: are completely suspicious about all this, as you can imagine.
16:22
Speaker 1: And Emir Abdullah, now Abdullah is the he is the
16:29
Speaker 1: he's the king of Jordan, Transjordinia, Okay, And he says
16:34
Speaker 1: this to Churchill. He says that you have now Churchill
16:37
Speaker 1: put Abdullah in Transjordinia back in nineteen twenty one, all right,
16:42
Speaker 1: He says, the inhabitants of the Arab world are inferment
16:44
Speaker 1: over the future of Palestine. That Arabs believe at present
16:47
Speaker 1: that the Jews want to have Palestine only as a
16:50
Speaker 1: means of their future domination of the whole Arab world
16:53
Speaker 1: economically as well as politically. Again, Saud to Churchill, this
16:59
Speaker 1: is in that year. The ambitions of the Jews are
17:02
Speaker 1: not confined to Palestide alone. The preparations they have made
17:05
Speaker 1: showed that they intend to take hostile action against neighboring
17:08
Speaker 1: Arab countries to create a form of Nazi fascism within
17:13
Speaker 1: sight of the democracies and in the midst of the
17:16
Speaker 1: Arab countries. Now I get this, this is what he says.
17:19
Speaker 1: Now talk about history of revisionism. Here, here's what the
17:22
Speaker 1: king says to Churchill. Joshua captured the land of the Canaanites,
17:26
Speaker 1: an Arab tribe with great cruelty and barbarity. The Arabs
17:31
Speaker 1: have been in Palestine since five hundred years before Christ.
17:36
Speaker 1: They have ruled it alone or with the Turks for
17:39
Speaker 1: thirteen hundred years. The disjointed rule of the Jews did
17:42
Speaker 1: not exceed three hundred and eighty years, confused and sporadic
17:45
Speaker 1: years ending in three point thirty two BC. For two
17:50
Speaker 1: two hundred years, there have been few Jews there. I mean,
17:52
Speaker 1: that's a lie completely, and they have had no influence.
17:55
Speaker 1: They were aliens who had come to Palestine at intervals
17:58
Speaker 1: and had then been turned out over two thousand years ago.
18:02
Speaker 1: So we see here the Churchill's optimism is being met,
18:07
Speaker 1: obviously with a lot of resistance here now on the ground,
18:11
Speaker 1: and it's both Jewish and and and Arab resistance. And
18:15
Speaker 1: then not only that, you also have a kind weisman,
18:18
Speaker 1: so weisman if if everybody maybe they don't know, but
18:22
Speaker 1: he he's he's he's a British duke. He's got a
18:26
Speaker 1: very friendly relationship with Churchill, always had since nineteen oh seven.
18:30
Speaker 1: One Church of God in British citizenship. And he becomes
18:34
Speaker 1: the leader of the He's the guy who who helps
18:36
Speaker 1: the British war effort, probably says the British war effort
18:39
Speaker 1: in World War One by by creating acetode for the
18:43
Speaker 1: shells because the Brits were running out of ammunition to
18:47
Speaker 1: shell the Germans. So he creates that he's a chemist.
18:50
Speaker 1: He becomes the first very he's very much the prominent
18:53
Speaker 1: Zionist's voice along with David Ben Gurion, and he's like
18:57
Speaker 1: the first I think he becomes the first president, not
19:02
Speaker 1: because president. It's either the Zionus Congress or the Jewish Agency.
19:05
Speaker 1: I forget which one, but anyway, he's high up. He
19:08
Speaker 1: will eventually become the first president of the State of
19:11
Speaker 1: Israel in nineteen in nineteen forty eight, but he writes
19:15
Speaker 1: to Churchill in forty five because Britain had actually introduced
19:20
Speaker 1: this White Paper in thirty nine restricting Jewish immigration because
19:26
Speaker 1: it was a sop to the Arabs, and they were
19:30
Speaker 1: Churchill wasn't Prime Minister then, but it was a sop
19:33
Speaker 1: to the Arabs and also to keep them on board,
19:36
Speaker 1: and you know, because they needed the Arabs for the
19:39
Speaker 1: war effect against Germany. But here's what Weismann says to Churchill.
19:44
Speaker 1: He says, the Jewish people have waited till the end
19:46
Speaker 1: of the German War not only for their deliverance from Hitler,
19:49
Speaker 1: but also from the injustice of the White Paper of
19:51
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, which has so intensely aggravated both their
19:55
Speaker 1: sufferings and the loss of human life. We remember with
19:58
Speaker 1: gratitude how in the debate and the debate of twenty
20:01
Speaker 1: third and May thirty nine, the voice of British conscience
20:04
Speaker 1: spoke through you. Talk to Churchill. We have noted how
20:07
Speaker 1: during the years of war you have never let yourself
20:09
Speaker 1: be drawn into saying anything which could be interpreted as
20:12
Speaker 1: an acceptance of the White Paper. This has enabled me
20:16
Speaker 1: to urge upon my people patients. But now the German
20:18
Speaker 1: War is over, because the German War ends on May
20:21
Speaker 1: the eighth, nineteen forty five under your leadership, victories come.
20:24
Speaker 1: Your word could never carry greater weight that he does.
20:28
Speaker 1: Now that is so ironic, because in two months Churchill
20:33
Speaker 1: will be out of office. The White Paper still stands
20:39
Speaker 1: weismann remonstration, it is prolonging the agony of the Jewish survivors.
20:42
Speaker 1: Will you not say the word which is to right
20:44
Speaker 1: wrongs and set the people free? But of a call
20:48
Speaker 1: there for Moses right. So Churchill acknowledges the letter, but
20:52
Speaker 1: he kindly tells Weisman. He says, until the great powers
20:55
Speaker 1: come to to the peace conference his hands, that he
21:00
Speaker 1: can't really do anything. Weisman's completely disappointed by this. Your
21:04
Speaker 1: message came as a great shock to me. I'd always
21:07
Speaker 1: understood from our conversations that I probably would be considered
21:10
Speaker 1: as soon as the German War was over. But you're
21:12
Speaker 1: phrase until the victorious Allies are definitely seated at the
21:15
Speaker 1: peace table, substitute some a definite date in the future.
21:19
Speaker 1: I can hardly believe this to have been your intention,
21:23
Speaker 1: And of course obviously that the White Paper is being
21:25
Speaker 1: continued to be implemented to an extent, and Churchill just
21:29
Speaker 1: replies again. Back on the twenty ninth of June Churchill,
21:31
Speaker 1: he's out three weeks later than this. I'm afraid I
21:34
Speaker 1: can add nothing more to my letter of Dune the
21:36
Speaker 1: ninth except to explain that the peace table means the
21:38
Speaker 1: peace table. And he's telling Weisman that it's going to be.
21:45
Speaker 1: You know it's going to be by the year. Out
21:48
Speaker 1: of course, we know all the Pacific War ends on
21:50
Speaker 1: August ninth. I think it's August the ninth or somewhere thereabouts.
21:55
Speaker 1: But here's what Churchill says to Aviceman. This will interest you.
21:59
Speaker 1: It is to me for some time that it might
22:02
Speaker 1: be a solution of your difficulties if the mandate were
22:05
Speaker 1: transferred from Britain to the United States, who, with her
22:08
Speaker 1: great wealth and strength and strong Jewish elements, might be
22:11
Speaker 1: able to do more for the Zion's course than great
22:14
Speaker 1: cause in Great Britain. I need scarcely say I shall
22:17
Speaker 1: continue to do my best for it, but as you
22:20
Speaker 1: will know, it has very few supporters in the Conservative Party,
22:23
Speaker 1: and even the Labor Party now seemed to have lost
22:26
Speaker 1: all zeal So this is so, this is where now
22:30
Speaker 1: you could you can begin to see a transition, because
22:32
Speaker 1: remember Mondo, if we remember our discussions from previous things
22:35
Speaker 1: that we've done, the you know, the great, the great
22:40
Speaker 1: evangelical move to bring the zi to bring the Jews
22:43
Speaker 1: back to Zion, back back to Israel, which was a great,
22:47
Speaker 1: great British effort in the nineteenth century and then also
22:53
Speaker 1: in the early part of the twenty twentieth century. Excuse
22:56
Speaker 1: me with Balfour Churchill, Lloyd George, et cetera. Well, this
23:01
Speaker 1: is this is now dying your death, you know, at
23:05
Speaker 1: this particular juncture in history. So so something else or
23:08
Speaker 1: somebody else is going to have to step in by
23:10
Speaker 1: divine providence, it seems to take this Zionist story forward.
23:15
Speaker 1: And Churchill is saying, even in my own party we
23:18
Speaker 1: had there are very few supporters, you know, for this
23:22
Speaker 1: cause now, and the Labor Party have lost all I've
23:26
Speaker 1: lost all zeal for it too, because the Labor Party
23:29
Speaker 1: of forty five are campaigning for oh yeah, we've got
23:31
Speaker 1: to we're Zionists, we want to create the Zionist state.
23:34
Speaker 1: And the Jews were all all for that, they were thinking,
23:37
Speaker 1: and so when Clement Attlee won the election in July
23:40
Speaker 1: forty five, there was dancing in the streets of Tel Aviv.
23:43
Speaker 1: But but of course the sadly the Socialists turned coats basically,
23:50
Speaker 1: and and that was the end of and they complete
23:54
Speaker 1: and all pretense of of a of a zion estate. God,
23:58
Speaker 1: I spoke long enough, you just.
24:01
Speaker 2: Well no, well it's just only a little bit to add.
24:04
Speaker 2: I go back to what Abdullah was saying, that the
24:08
Speaker 2: revisionism that you had, as it relates to the land
24:12
Speaker 2: of Israel or going all the way back, that they
24:15
Speaker 2: were the original Arab people, that Joshua came over and
24:19
Speaker 2: made the conquest. Well, it's interesting that, as you said,
24:23
Speaker 2: that is just so untrue because anybody that reads you know,
24:27
Speaker 2: Genesis ten or eleven and looks at the genealogies there
24:33
Speaker 2: Genesis nine, ten and eleven of Hamshem and Jayfith, we
24:36
Speaker 2: know that Canaan was the son of Ham, and so
24:39
Speaker 2: Canaan was part of the ham dynasty of nations going
24:44
Speaker 2: into Africa as well. But if you look at the Arabs,
24:47
Speaker 2: they're told they're a different group. And so for him
24:52
Speaker 2: to say that the Arabs were the Canaanites, that's ultimately
24:56
Speaker 2: what he's saying, and that Joshua came in and he
24:58
Speaker 2: bloodied them up and a variety of things. I mean
25:00
Speaker 2: even from a even if you don't believe in the
25:03
Speaker 2: sense of God, but you're just reading the Biblical text
25:06
Speaker 2: as Let's says, its history. What he's saying there is
25:10
Speaker 2: again total revision revisionism that now, Graham, we know that
25:16
Speaker 2: that's often said today that the original Israel will make
25:21
Speaker 2: an argument that they've been there for three thousand years
25:23
Speaker 2: or even longer, going back certainly to Joshua's conquest to
25:28
Speaker 2: fifteen hundred fourteen hundred BC, but others to say, but no,
25:32
Speaker 2: we were there first, and you're like, you guys are Arabs,
25:35
Speaker 2: You're coming from a totally different area. You've got the
25:38
Speaker 2: wrong family line. And so that's really important. If somebody's
25:43
Speaker 2: simply going to argue from a secular who was their
25:47
Speaker 2: first mentality? I guess you could you could go back
25:51
Speaker 2: to the Canaanites, which they're gone. They're nowhere around that
25:54
Speaker 2: there is no modern understanding of who the Canaanites were,
25:59
Speaker 2: of the sons of Ham, the children of Ham. You'd
26:02
Speaker 2: have to go to Africa for that, So we don't
26:04
Speaker 2: see that. So that's just important. What you have here
26:08
Speaker 2: for all of us is we think about getting the
26:10
Speaker 2: facts as it relates to understanding a two state solution.
26:14
Speaker 2: There's a lot going here. There's a lot of lies
26:17
Speaker 2: going back and forth. There's a lot of ambiguity as
26:21
Speaker 2: it relates to just again where it ebbs and flows.
26:24
Speaker 2: But what you do see, like you mentioned, is the
26:28
Speaker 2: optimism of the American administration or the American country coming
26:34
Speaker 2: in of course, helping to change the course of the
26:38
Speaker 2: war and coming in and saying, look, if they could
26:41
Speaker 2: just get behind this. But in reality, what we've seen
26:44
Speaker 2: is and we will see this, that the British finally
26:48
Speaker 2: just said we're done, We're out of here.
26:50
Speaker 3: We can't don't, we can't solve it.
26:53
Speaker 2: So let's hand it over to the fledging of the
26:56
Speaker 2: United Nations and maybe they can solve it. And as
26:58
Speaker 2: we know, there was some real realism there in some
27:04
Speaker 2: fairness going back, and we'll get there, you know, with
27:08
Speaker 2: November of nineteen forty seven, but the two state partition plan.
27:13
Speaker 3: But what we'll find.
27:15
Speaker 2: Here is this that I think what Ibn Sad said
27:21
Speaker 2: that there can be no there really is no way
27:26
Speaker 2: to have them live together. So even if you have
27:29
Speaker 2: the separate states, which the Arabs have always rejected, of
27:33
Speaker 2: course we know that Israel did, but they cannot, they
27:36
Speaker 2: cannot live together. And even you mentioned this too that
27:42
Speaker 2: I find it fascinating that where okay, well, we'll allow
27:46
Speaker 2: the Jews to live under an Arab state, one state,
27:49
Speaker 2: and we'll give am equal citizenship and they'll be living,
27:52
Speaker 2: you know. But in reality, the Jews know that they
27:55
Speaker 2: lived under that with the Turkish Empire, and they realize
27:58
Speaker 2: that it wasn't fair, not not they had demi status,
28:02
Speaker 2: they had secondary class status, and so they knew better.
28:05
Speaker 3: I guess we'll see it that way.
28:07
Speaker 1: And the Holocaust put paid to any of that, because
28:12
Speaker 1: they lived under as citizens in the German state, you know,
28:17
Speaker 1: and look what the German state did to them, you know.
28:20
Speaker 1: So it's it's so you could you could see. I mean,
28:23
Speaker 1: the the the the Zionists are pretty hard and now
28:29
Speaker 1: coming out of the war, because before that they had,
28:32
Speaker 1: you know, even Weismann had been I think with Faisal
28:36
Speaker 1: of Iraq keeping this talk of the greater Syria, and
28:39
Speaker 1: he he, they toyed with the idea. They gone a well,
28:42
Speaker 1: they toyed with the idea of having a Jewish autonomous
28:46
Speaker 1: region state under under a greatest Syria, a greater Syria country.
28:51
Speaker 1: You know, so they would beyond their Arab hegemony, but
28:55
Speaker 1: they would have their independence and we can try and
28:57
Speaker 1: make that work. But of course as the years progressed,
29:00
Speaker 1: but the war puts it into that completely. You can
29:02
Speaker 1: see why the designists come out and say no, we
29:05
Speaker 1: want to say that's it. And then like you said,
29:07
Speaker 1: they are actually willing to have a two state solution
29:10
Speaker 1: at this at this stage. Yeah, so just just well,
29:13
Speaker 1: just briefly then go through our so when you were
29:17
Speaker 1: saying that about the Arabs of that Cannes and say so,
29:21
Speaker 1: so the Arabs are claiming they were.
29:22
Speaker 3: Nephelem, then are they exactly?
29:25
Speaker 1: You know, Sorry to mix our streams here, you know,
29:28
Speaker 1: but anyway, so Churchill is out. In July twenty fifth,
29:35
Speaker 1: forty five, the Labor Party is in. Bevan is a
29:38
Speaker 1: new Foreign secretary. Churchill is now leader in opposition and
29:43
Speaker 1: he Bevin denies entering to Palestine and one hundred thousand
29:46
Speaker 1: Holocaust survivors, and of course he and he rejects Churchill's
29:49
Speaker 1: assurances to the thirty seven Pier Commission. Now, the thirty
29:52
Speaker 1: seven Pier Commission is the very first time that the
29:56
Speaker 1: British considered a two state solution. It was the first
29:59
Speaker 1: time was actually a propos within thirty six thirty seven.
30:03
Speaker 1: How are we going to get these two people to
30:05
Speaker 1: live together? And Lord Peel said, you can't exactly what
30:09
Speaker 1: you said you can. They're not going to live together.
30:11
Speaker 1: Let's split the land and create two states. Now, that
30:16
Speaker 1: was rejected by both Jews and Arabs. But you know,
30:24
Speaker 1: the the the framework, the narrative had been created for
30:28
Speaker 1: a two state solution and it was rejected for different reasons.
30:32
Speaker 1: The Arabs just will not count would not countenance any
30:37
Speaker 1: autonomous Jewish state outside of a greater Arab state, right,
30:45
Speaker 1: So yeah, like you say, we can protect their rights,
30:47
Speaker 1: but you know, we figured out how that's going to
30:49
Speaker 1: work out. Right. So and this at this time now
30:57
Speaker 1: Ernest Bevern, he's he's kind of He said that the
31:01
Speaker 1: immigration Jewish immigration will be limited as the same with
31:04
Speaker 1: the White Paper, and that Britain now favors a homeland
31:07
Speaker 1: for the Jews, not a state for the Jews. Okay.
31:11
Speaker 1: So after the war, an Anglo American Committee of Inquiry
31:15
Speaker 1: was set up and here's what they found. The Arabs
31:22
Speaker 1: of Palestine are descendants of the indigenous inhabitants who have
31:26
Speaker 1: been in occupation of it since the beginning of history.
31:28
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, this is what the Arab office admits to
31:31
Speaker 1: the document to the American committee, quiet again repeating the history,
31:35
Speaker 1: repeating this history. Arabs of Palisade are descendants of the
31:40
Speaker 1: indigenous inhabitants, have been in the occupation of it since
31:43
Speaker 1: the beginning of history. The Jewish claim is based upon
31:45
Speaker 1: a historical connection which ceased effectively many centuries ago. And
31:50
Speaker 1: we still have that narrative regilt we of Israel being
31:53
Speaker 1: a colonial settlers state, a colonial settler state, and imposition
31:58
Speaker 1: of Western in imperialism. Yeah, yah, YadA, YadA, YadA. Right,
32:02
Speaker 1: you know, just just endless. So that's kind of again.
32:06
Speaker 1: So even in this Anglo American inquiry is you know,
32:12
Speaker 1: if they can find a way to to you know,
32:15
Speaker 1: to to to progress the cause of both the Jews
32:18
Speaker 1: and the and the Arabs. There there was a guy
32:23
Speaker 1: called Staphic Crips and he says this in Parliament, the
32:27
Speaker 1: future Palastine will not be decided by terrorism and by violence.
32:31
Speaker 1: So Churchill responds to this again, We're just going to
32:34
Speaker 1: read his Churchill spoke of Cryps, spoke of the past
32:39
Speaker 1: twenty five years as being the most unkind or unhappy,
32:43
Speaker 1: unhappy Palestine has known right the mandate period. I imagine
32:47
Speaker 1: that it would be hardly be possible to state the
32:50
Speaker 1: opposite of the truth. More compenduously, I love Churchill's voice,
32:55
Speaker 1: not that I can do it. The years during which
32:57
Speaker 1: we have accepted the Mandate have been the writis that
33:00
Speaker 1: Palistide has known and were full of hope. Of course,
33:03
Speaker 1: there were always there was always friction because the jew
33:06
Speaker 1: was in many cases allowed to go far beyond the
33:08
Speaker 1: strict limits of the interpretation which was placed upon the mandate. Meanwhile,
33:13
Speaker 1: how did we treat the Arabs? We have treated them
33:15
Speaker 1: very well. The house of Asying reigns in Iraq. Faisal
33:20
Speaker 1: was placed on the throne. His grandson is there today.
33:23
Speaker 1: The Emir Abdullah, whom I remember appointing at Jerusalem in
33:26
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty one to be in charge of transjordaining, is
33:29
Speaker 1: there today. Syria and Lebanon, oh their independence. Of the
33:33
Speaker 1: great exertions made by the British government. In fact, all
33:37
Speaker 1: sorts of hopes were raised among the Jews of Palestide,
33:40
Speaker 1: just as other hopes were raised elsewhere. However, when the
33:43
Speaker 1: months slipped by and no decided policy or declaration was
33:46
Speaker 1: made by the present government. Now talking about the labor
33:49
Speaker 1: government now, a deep and bitter resentment spread throughout the
33:53
Speaker 1: Palestine Jewish community, the disappointment and disillusionment of the Jews,
33:58
Speaker 1: that the procrastination and indecision the British labor government. And
34:01
Speaker 1: no excuse because the Jews now are beginning to engage
34:06
Speaker 1: in acts of terrorists and they blow up the King
34:08
Speaker 1: David Hotel, the Urgu and the Lahy, what have you.
34:11
Speaker 1: Churchill is really against this. He castigates them, he calls
34:14
Speaker 1: them Jewish terrorists it is and then he says here
34:19
Speaker 1: that they should be rooted out, punished with full severity
34:22
Speaker 1: of the law. And then you know he's kind of
34:26
Speaker 1: he gets some pushback because you know, people are thinking, well,
34:31
Speaker 1: Churchill has against Jews emigrating to Palestine. But here's what
34:36
Speaker 1: Churchill says in response to that. He says, I am
34:39
Speaker 1: against preventing Jews from doing anything which other people are
34:42
Speaker 1: allowed to do. I am against that, and I have
34:45
Speaker 1: the strongness abhorrence of the idea of anti Semitic lines
34:47
Speaker 1: of prejudice. We have never sought or got anything out
34:51
Speaker 1: of Palestine. We have discharged a thankless, painful, costly of
34:55
Speaker 1: boris inconvenient tasks for more than a quarter of a century,
34:59
Speaker 1: with a very great measure of success. It is Great Britain,
35:02
Speaker 1: and Great Britain alone, which has steadfastly carried that cause
35:05
Speaker 1: forward across the whole generation to its present actual position.
35:09
Speaker 1: And the Jews all over the world ought not to
35:12
Speaker 1: be in a hurry to forget that. I had always
35:15
Speaker 1: intended to put it to our friends in America from
35:18
Speaker 1: the very beginning of the post war discussions, that either
35:21
Speaker 1: they should come in and help us in this Zioners
35:23
Speaker 1: problem about which they feel so strongly. So you know
35:28
Speaker 1: that was his intention of the course, to play on
35:30
Speaker 1: this Anglo American relationship. The course he's now out of office.
35:34
Speaker 1: He can't do that. So here's what he suggests. Here
35:36
Speaker 1: is the action action this day. I think the government
35:39
Speaker 1: should say that if the United States will not come
35:41
Speaker 1: and share the burden of the Zioner's cause as defined
35:44
Speaker 1: or as agreed, we should now give notice that we
35:47
Speaker 1: will return our mandate to the United Nations organizations, and
35:51
Speaker 1: that we will evacuate Palestine within a specified period. At
35:56
Speaker 1: the same time, we should inform Egypt and we stand
35:59
Speaker 1: by our treaty right will by all means maintain our
36:01
Speaker 1: position in the Canal zone. These are the two positive
36:04
Speaker 1: proposals which I submit most respectful to the House. In
36:09
Speaker 1: so far as the government may have hampered out themselves
36:11
Speaker 1: in any way from adopting these simple policies, they are
36:14
Speaker 1: culpable in the last degree, and the whole Empire and
36:17
Speaker 1: the Commonwealth would be the suffers from their mismanagement. So
36:20
Speaker 1: he's not a he's not a fan of the new government.
36:22
Speaker 1: And they're indecision. I mean, this is the guy who
36:26
Speaker 1: literally led the war, right, he was the leader of
36:29
Speaker 1: the free world. It would all have crumbled under na
36:32
Speaker 1: system if it really was not for his leadership. And
36:35
Speaker 1: he now he's watching this, this this successive government, you know,
36:40
Speaker 1: kicking their heels about what to do in Palestine and
36:43
Speaker 1: allowing the situation sort of to continue. So he's actually saying,
36:47
Speaker 1: you know, if the Americans don't want to come in
36:49
Speaker 1: and help us, kick it back to the back to
36:52
Speaker 1: the United Nations. Now interesting getting to the Americans now,
36:57
Speaker 1: mon No, President Truman. So he's set operating the proposal
37:01
Speaker 1: for separate Arab and Jewish states. So he's angering the
37:03
Speaker 1: British because the British designed they don't want that. They
37:06
Speaker 1: rejected this already. Now the British now are thinking about
37:09
Speaker 1: a unitary state of an Arab, unitary Strait state with
37:17
Speaker 1: a Jewish Jewish minority rights right protection within the Jews
37:22
Speaker 1: within that state. So there was this Morrison Grady plan,
37:27
Speaker 1: which the first I'd heard about researching this and that plan.
37:32
Speaker 1: This came out of the London conference in October December
37:35
Speaker 1: of whereway in nineteen forty six forty seven, now are we?
37:39
Speaker 1: And it was basically an Anglo American trusteeship of Western
37:45
Speaker 1: Palastide with autonomous Arab and Jewish areas. So this was
37:48
Speaker 1: this is kind of the land would be split between
37:51
Speaker 1: Arab areas Jewish areas, and I think the Jerusalem would
37:58
Speaker 1: always be internationalized. The British had decided that in thirty
38:02
Speaker 1: six thirty seven. They knew that that was going to
38:05
Speaker 1: be the sticking point, so let's internationalize it. The same
38:10
Speaker 1: is happening here. But Churchman Truman both agreed to this
38:15
Speaker 1: Borison Grady plan, you know. And under this plan it
38:22
Speaker 1: would be under British government control, but the regions would
38:28
Speaker 1: be autonomous. They could create their own laws, they could
38:30
Speaker 1: do their own thing, etc. But the Americans would be
38:33
Speaker 1: in would be in sponsoring the it's an Anglo American
38:36
Speaker 1: plan because that was rejected by the Arabs. They proposed
38:40
Speaker 1: an Arab state in West Palestine with minority protection, citizenship
38:45
Speaker 1: for the Jewish population. And the Jewish Agency who rejects
38:48
Speaker 1: any plan that does not include an independent Jewish state.
38:51
Speaker 1: So here you just have completely two opposing views. The
38:55
Speaker 1: thing is, Truman goes back because the Jewish ages, the
39:00
Speaker 1: Jewish Agency in America reject the plan, reject this Morrison
39:04
Speaker 1: or Grady plan. So he not reneges. He says, I can't,
39:08
Speaker 1: I can't do anything with this. So now he sets
39:12
Speaker 1: this Anglo American partnership literally fragments right here in terms
39:17
Speaker 1: of try to do something for the Zionis. And here's
39:22
Speaker 1: what Churchill says on the twelfth of November to the
39:25
Speaker 1: House of Commons. It is impossible to avoid expressing deep
39:28
Speaker 1: regret at the many changes of tactics and methods, and
39:31
Speaker 1: the needless of disappointment created throughout the world Jewy by
39:34
Speaker 1: the failure to fulfill the hopes which the party opposite,
39:37
Speaker 1: the Labor Party, excited by their promises and convictions, that
39:40
Speaker 1: the general election, and above all, and the lack of
39:43
Speaker 1: any policy worthy of the name. And he accuses them
39:47
Speaker 1: of allowing just hatred to flare up and run right
39:50
Speaker 1: throughout Palestine for more than a year. I cannot in
39:54
Speaker 1: any way, Churchill says, received from the advice which I
39:56
Speaker 1: venture to give. In any less, we cannot fulfill our
39:59
Speaker 1: promises to the zion We should, without delay place our
40:02
Speaker 1: mandate for Palestine at the feet of the United Nations,
40:05
Speaker 1: and gives you notice of our impending evacuation of that country.
40:09
Speaker 1: If this offer is accepted, get this, Mondo, you quote
40:12
Speaker 1: it the scripture. If this offer is accepted, a burden
40:15
Speaker 1: which has become too heavy and too invidious for us
40:19
Speaker 1: to bear alone, will it be lifted from our shoulders
40:21
Speaker 1: and place in international safe keeping. And when I read that,
40:26
Speaker 1: I just wrote and it's proved to be too heavy
40:30
Speaker 1: for everyone else as well.
40:31
Speaker 2: You know, granted that this is just where we realize
40:34
Speaker 2: that the truthfulness of Scripture zach ARYE twelve is true.
40:39
Speaker 2: It's going to be, by God's design, too heavy for
40:43
Speaker 2: any of them to take it, even although the wisdom
40:47
Speaker 2: of the nations of the world they're certainly not working
40:49
Speaker 2: there either.
40:51
Speaker 3: So again, once again, scripture is true.
40:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's of course, you know, we're holding the scripture.
40:58
Speaker 1: So you know, people actu Chull and Roosevelt, Well Roosevelt died,
41:02
Speaker 1: but you know it seemed to have good intentions. Well
41:04
Speaker 1: he does have good intentions, but it's just it's even
41:08
Speaker 1: an empire couldn't bring it to couldn't bring it, couldn't
41:10
Speaker 1: make it happen. You know, as we're gonna close, we're
41:13
Speaker 1: going to close, we'll probably have to pick up the
41:15
Speaker 1: rest of this story because we will then get into
41:17
Speaker 1: the partition plan. But what I wanted us to see
41:20
Speaker 1: is that this is where it begins, and it's it's
41:24
Speaker 1: well thought out, it's this is the only solution, you know,
41:28
Speaker 1: to make this happen. You go back to the Balfour
41:31
Speaker 1: Declaration and how it was penned, you know, the wording
41:35
Speaker 1: of it with yes, the Jewish homeland and those who
41:38
Speaker 1: penned always knew they were going to be a Jewish state,
41:40
Speaker 1: but without you know, without prejudice to the Arab you know,
41:46
Speaker 1: the rights of the Arabs, et cetera, et cetera. So
41:50
Speaker 1: the Arab delegates, you know, this is February forty seventy nine.
41:54
Speaker 1: Any former petition or the renewal of Jewish immigration, the
41:57
Speaker 1: Jewish Agency who has attendance at this con friends rejected
42:00
Speaker 1: any solution other than partition into two separate states. So
42:04
Speaker 1: we've mentioned that a couple of times the Jews were
42:08
Speaker 1: four two states, and they were willing to give up
42:12
Speaker 1: Jerusalem to get the two states side by side living peacefully.
42:20
Speaker 1: And Churchill will maybe pick up this next time, but
42:23
Speaker 1: but Churchill was pretty enthused by that, by that whole
42:28
Speaker 1: the whole idea of what, you know, what could be
42:31
Speaker 1: achieved if the Jews and Arabs just put their minds
42:34
Speaker 1: to each other, put their minds to the land, and
42:37
Speaker 1: played off each other's strengths. You know, the Jews brought ingenuity,
42:42
Speaker 1: they brought a superior culture and civilization skills, as even
42:47
Speaker 1: Soud had said. But of course, you know, the Arabs
42:51
Speaker 1: were you know, also industrious and and and they knew
42:54
Speaker 1: the land as well. So this is kind of, I
42:57
Speaker 1: think where the story of the two states solution shouldn't begin. Well,
43:00
Speaker 1: it is where it begins, and it begins with a
43:03
Speaker 1: great deal of hope that you know, it all it's all,
43:08
Speaker 1: but it already seems dead in the water, doesn't it,
43:11
Speaker 1: all the way back in nineteen forty five, Because you know,
43:15
Speaker 1: one side was we say, yeah, we'll go for the
43:17
Speaker 1: other side. The other side says, no, we're not, We're
43:21
Speaker 1: not going to. So if I'll leave you with the
43:23
Speaker 1: final thoughts, because they want to wrap up here and
43:26
Speaker 1: pick up this the second part of the story on
43:28
Speaker 1: the next one.
43:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, I think the one thing that
43:32
Speaker 2: struck out to me was just some of the some
43:35
Speaker 2: of the language or the propaganda in that when we
43:38
Speaker 2: look at the people of Israel, the Jewish people, if we.
43:41
Speaker 3: Want to say it that way.
43:43
Speaker 2: You know, they they were called colonizers and they're going
43:47
Speaker 2: to go and they're going to spread, and they're they're
43:49
Speaker 2: going to use this as a buffer to expand their
43:52
Speaker 2: own hegemony in the rest of the Middle East. But
43:54
Speaker 2: in reality, that is not what they wanted.
43:57
Speaker 3: They wanted a place.
43:57
Speaker 2: Where they wouldn't be murdered, and they were even in
44:01
Speaker 2: that partition plan of the United Nations and others, they
44:05
Speaker 2: had a very small area, very very small sliver of
44:08
Speaker 2: desert as it relates to what was divided by the
44:13
Speaker 2: United nations they accepted, the Arabs rejected it. But what's
44:16
Speaker 2: interesting to me is that you know, if you look
44:18
Speaker 2: today at modern Israel, whether now they're their possession of
44:21
Speaker 2: the gold On Heights or even out down to the
44:24
Speaker 2: rest of the Negev to the south, how did that happen? Well,
44:31
Speaker 2: it happened through defensive wars, all of them.
44:35
Speaker 3: That Israel never.
44:36
Speaker 2: Sought to expand itself by going out and either colonize
44:41
Speaker 2: or annexing anything. They were attacked, attacked, attack, This is
44:45
Speaker 2: just a matter of history. Every time they were attacked,
44:46
Speaker 2: they responded, and in order to prevent certain level like
44:50
Speaker 2: receiving even today in Lebanon, they come in and they
44:54
Speaker 2: occupy a certain place beyond the boundaries to the Latawni
44:58
Speaker 2: River because they're getting attacked. So I find it interesting
45:02
Speaker 2: that somebody can make the claim that, look, Israel has
45:05
Speaker 2: expanded their borders because their expansion is well, that is
45:08
Speaker 2: not the way. History showed itself that they were content.
45:12
Speaker 3: There and any of those things.
45:14
Speaker 2: Even gaining the Sinai Peninsula in the Six Day War,
45:18
Speaker 2: they gave it back up. But again they weren't out
45:20
Speaker 2: there attacking Egypt and trying to get the Sinai Peninsula
45:23
Speaker 2: or even the goal on Heights unless again, just remind
45:27
Speaker 2: everybody it was in self defense that their borders expanded,
45:32
Speaker 2: and that's typical of all war, right, I mean.
45:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean if yeah, we'll get into the later. Well,
45:39
Speaker 1: I think this is going to be a bit of
45:41
Speaker 1: a longer series because I think we really need to
45:43
Speaker 1: cover this, you know fully, you know, the historical how
45:48
Speaker 1: this is developed to where we are today. But it's interesting.
45:50
Speaker 1: I just wanted to there's a quote for Churchill. I'll
45:53
Speaker 1: do it next time, but where he says, no, the
45:55
Speaker 1: Jews have to be given the desert because the Arabs
45:58
Speaker 1: are a desert people, right, that's their natural homeland. But
46:02
Speaker 1: it's the Jews who have the ability to make the
46:05
Speaker 1: desert bloom. I mean he's coaching, he's quoted scripture, you know,
46:09
Speaker 1: and it's like and of course that's exactly what's happened,
46:12
Speaker 1: you know. So so again, yeah, the the inability. But I
46:17
Speaker 1: think you know, when we get down to it, we
46:19
Speaker 1: get into the nitty gritty, you know, the delegitimization of
46:23
Speaker 1: you know, is this a land issue, It's this a
46:26
Speaker 1: racial issue? Is this a religious issue? What? What issue?
46:31
Speaker 1: Is it, you know, And of course it's all of
46:33
Speaker 1: those it's all of those things, but ultimately it's a
46:37
Speaker 1: delegitimization issue. And but that that that will be for
46:41
Speaker 1: a later episode. So momdo I hope, I hope. I
46:44
Speaker 1: hope haven't bored everybody with the reading. But it's just
46:46
Speaker 1: I think it's just really important because these are the
46:48
Speaker 1: people who were making the decisions, who were shaping the
46:50
Speaker 1: decisions and decisions which we are now still left with
46:56
Speaker 1: to to to deal with. So when people, you know,
46:59
Speaker 1: when people are saying, I'm modern politicians are talking about
47:02
Speaker 1: a two state solution, it's well ingrained. It's well because
47:06
Speaker 1: there actually is no other solution, but it's not a
47:09
Speaker 1: solution at all. Right, So it's like I say, and
47:12
Speaker 1: I'll just end with this. You know, the two state
47:15
Speaker 1: solution is the only solution in town, but that town
47:18
Speaker 1: was razed to the ground a long time ago.
47:21
Speaker 3: Yep.
47:21
Speaker 2: I think this has been great, Graham in the sense,
47:23
Speaker 2: and I hope again our listeners are appreciating that the
47:27
Speaker 2: detail we have that we're getting into here of history
47:30
Speaker 2: is shaping not only what we see today but also
47:34
Speaker 2: where it's going.
47:35
Speaker 3: Again.
47:36
Speaker 2: To me, I look at it through the prophetic lens,
47:39
Speaker 2: and as we look down the line in before the
47:42
Speaker 2: Lord's return, all that stuff is just it's like a cycle, cycle, cycle,
47:46
Speaker 2: and the fact of the matter is, at least scripturally speaking,
47:50
Speaker 2: until the Antichrist, right until he comes on the scene,
47:55
Speaker 2: there is no ability for what we see as a
47:59
Speaker 2: permanent and as we know there that's not a permanent
48:02
Speaker 2: solution either because of his own egomania.
48:05
Speaker 3: But nevertheless, encourage people to stick around.
48:08
Speaker 2: This has been a good time again with our friend
48:10
Speaker 2: Graham here, and I hope you appreciate all that we're doing.
48:14
Speaker 2: It is important to get the facts and the history,
48:17
Speaker 2: and you know, my goal is to be unbiased. And
48:19
Speaker 2: as we know, even as you mentioned Graham, you know,
48:24
Speaker 2: Churchill called out these Jewish terrorists, so there were terrorists
48:28
Speaker 2: against a lot of what the British were doing there.
48:30
Speaker 2: So we'll call it as we see it. We're true
48:33
Speaker 2: tellers here. But again as we look forward, this is
48:35
Speaker 2: what we have. So thanks Graham, and thank you everybody
48:38
Speaker 2: for watching, and catch us next time.