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#HURDLEMOMENT: Acupuncture 101: An Expert On How It Works & What to Expect · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: Acupuncture changed my life. It can change yours too, and
0:03
Speaker 1: really there's no downside to trying it right. It's not
0:05
Speaker 1: a medication, it's not a surgery. That's what I love
0:08
Speaker 1: so much about acupuncture is that there's really no downside
0:11
Speaker 1: to it. You know.
0:26
Speaker 2: I was trying to think the other day about when
0:28
Speaker 2: I started using the word hurdlers, and it was really
0:31
Speaker 2: early on, but I don't have an exact origin story.
0:37
Speaker 2: I digress to the intro. Emily A Badi here, what's
0:40
Speaker 2: going on hurdlers? You are listening to another episode of Hurdle,
0:45
Speaker 2: a Wileness focus podcast where I connect with everyone from
0:48
Speaker 2: your favorite athletes to top experts and industry CEOs about
0:51
Speaker 2: their highest hies, toughest moments, and everything in between. We
0:56
Speaker 2: all go through hurdles in life, and my goal through
0:58
Speaker 2: these discussions is to empower you to better navigate yours
1:01
Speaker 2: and move with intention so that you can stride towards
1:05
Speaker 2: your own big potential and of course have some fun
1:09
Speaker 2: along the way. For today's episode, I am chatting with
1:13
Speaker 2: Teddy Levarda. He's a licensed acupuncturist. He's also the owner
1:17
Speaker 2: of Morningside Acupuncture here in Manhattan. I have been going
1:22
Speaker 2: to see Teddy for about a month now on my
1:26
Speaker 2: what feels like never ending journey to navigate planter fasciitis,
1:30
Speaker 2: and I have learned so much, which is exactly why
1:35
Speaker 2: the last time that I was in his office, I
1:37
Speaker 2: asked him if he would be oh so kind and
1:41
Speaker 2: come on the pod to talk all about acupuncture. And
1:46
Speaker 2: that's exactly what we do in today's episode. In today's chat,
1:50
Speaker 2: Teddy and I get into the origins of acupuncture, the
1:53
Speaker 2: different types of acupuncture, what you can expect heading to
1:57
Speaker 2: your first and second sessions, and of course subsequent to that,
2:01
Speaker 2: plus the different types of ailments, situations, pains, whatnot that
2:07
Speaker 2: acupuncture can treat. Like I said this time around, although
2:11
Speaker 2: I have done acupuncture before shout out to Mollie at
2:15
Speaker 2: eight point wellness, I am using it for a very
2:20
Speaker 2: specific issue planter fasci itis, but individuals use acupuncture to
2:24
Speaker 2: treat all different sorts of situations from pain to chronic illness.
2:30
Speaker 2: We talk about fertility and so much more. Plus the
2:35
Speaker 2: big question that everybody wanted to know about on social media,
2:38
Speaker 2: does acupuncture hurt or what does it feel like? Spoiler alert?
2:43
Speaker 2: We talk all about that too. Now really exciting here
2:47
Speaker 2: Teddy and Morningside are giving five listeners that are local
2:52
Speaker 2: to New York a free acupuncture session. The details on
2:56
Speaker 2: how to win your session are going to be posted
2:59
Speaker 2: on the Hurdle Instagram account that's over at Hurdle Podcast,
3:04
Speaker 2: and the winners will be announced on Monday, January thirtieth,
3:09
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. So for all of the information on
3:13
Speaker 2: how you can win a free acupuncture session at Morningside Uptown.
3:17
Speaker 2: If you happen to be local to New York, head
3:19
Speaker 2: on over to at Hurdle Podcast on Instagram. Make sure
3:23
Speaker 2: you're also following along with me over at Emily Body.
3:26
Speaker 2: And if you're not yet doing so, subscribe to the
3:29
Speaker 2: Weekly Hurdle newsletter. It comes out every single Friday, bringing
3:32
Speaker 2: a lot of the same motivation and inspiration you love
3:35
Speaker 2: from the show directly to your inbox. And while you're there,
3:39
Speaker 2: don't hesitate to share the Weekly Hurdle with a friend.
3:43
Speaker 2: That's it for now.
3:45
Speaker 3: With that, let's get to it. Let's get to hurdling.
4:05
Speaker 2: Today. I am sitting down with Teddy Levarda. He is
4:09
Speaker 2: the founder of Morningside Acupuncture. He's also a licensed acupuncturist
4:14
Speaker 2: How are you doing, Teddy.
4:15
Speaker 1: I'm doing great. Hello everyone in Emily. Thanks so much
4:18
Speaker 1: for having me today. I'm really excited to talk about
4:21
Speaker 1: acupuncture and answer any questions that you have.
4:23
Speaker 2: Have you done a podcast before.
4:26
Speaker 1: I've done a couple Instagram lives before. This is my
4:29
Speaker 1: first podcast, so to speak.
4:30
Speaker 2: How does it feel?
4:31
Speaker 1: It's exciting. I mean, getting to talk about acupuncture and
4:35
Speaker 1: educate people about it has been super fun since I
4:37
Speaker 1: started doing this.
4:38
Speaker 2: So how long have you been doing it?
4:39
Speaker 1: So? You know, acupuncture school was three years long. I
4:42
Speaker 1: started that in twenty sixteen. I graduated in twenty nineteen,
4:45
Speaker 1: and it'll be almost four years now that I'm on
4:47
Speaker 1: my own. And you know, I had a whole nother
4:49
Speaker 1: career before acupuncture. I worked in finance for almost I
4:54
Speaker 1: think it was nine or ten years, and then had
4:56
Speaker 1: such an amazing experience with acupuncture personally that I I
5:00
Speaker 1: had to abandon my career, go to school for three years,
5:03
Speaker 1: and you know, take a chance on being an acupuncturist.
5:05
Speaker 2: Well, we need to hear what happened.
5:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you know it started back when I was
5:11
Speaker 1: in my mid twenties. I was working in finance, like
5:13
Speaker 1: a really crazy you know, like ten to twelve hour
5:16
Speaker 1: job in a chair was really stressful. I wasn't allowed
5:18
Speaker 1: to take breaks. And I was also playing a lot
5:21
Speaker 1: of soccer, and I was more of a runner than
5:23
Speaker 1: I am now back then, and I was training for
5:25
Speaker 1: the New York City Marathon in twenty ten, and during
5:29
Speaker 1: my training I started to have like hip pain, back pain.
5:32
Speaker 1: I tore my hamstring during my training. That was a
5:34
Speaker 1: couple months before the race. I ended up doing the marathon,
5:38
Speaker 1: not as well as I would have liked, because you know,
5:40
Speaker 1: I had that injury. And then the next year I
5:42
Speaker 1: started playing soccer again, running more, and I started get
5:45
Speaker 1: this clicking in my hip. Turned out I had a
5:47
Speaker 1: laborum tear in my hip. It was probably from all
5:49
Speaker 1: the running and stress. I spent about a year or
5:53
Speaker 1: two just going around between different types of treatment. I tried,
5:57
Speaker 1: you know, physical therapy, strength training. I went to the
5:59
Speaker 1: Worth pedic doctor, had a cortzone injection. I tried traditional acupuncture,
6:04
Speaker 1: which you know works for a lot of things, but
6:05
Speaker 1: I needed a different kind of acupuncture which I later
6:08
Speaker 1: stumbled upon. You know, I tried magnet therapy, gyratronic yoga, pilates, swimming,
6:15
Speaker 1: you know I could name like all these weird things
6:17
Speaker 1: that you know, you just go online and you're like,
6:19
Speaker 1: what can help with my back or hip pain? And
6:20
Speaker 1: you're just desperate for answers. And I really didn't want
6:23
Speaker 1: to get surgery. And then I actually discovered a different
6:27
Speaker 1: style of acupuncture. Because there are a lot of different
6:28
Speaker 1: styles which we'll probably get into. I discovered more of
6:32
Speaker 1: like a trigger point type of acupuncture, or it can
6:34
Speaker 1: be called dry needling. It has a lot of names.
6:36
Speaker 1: Myofascial release, you know, it's essentially like a deep tissue
6:40
Speaker 1: release with an acupuncture needle. And that like literally changed
6:43
Speaker 1: my life, you know, working on like my glutes and
6:46
Speaker 1: my hip flexers and I just had chronic tightness from
6:48
Speaker 1: sitting all day and playing soccer, both of those things
6:50
Speaker 1: and running. All those things stressed your hips quite a bit.
6:54
Speaker 1: And by loosening that up, like my hip pain went away.
6:58
Speaker 1: I had gone to hip surgeon and he said, you know,
7:00
Speaker 1: you're playing soccer four times a week. I know it's
7:02
Speaker 1: really painful, but you're twenty five, and the longer you
7:05
Speaker 1: can prolong surgery, you know, the better off you'll be.
7:07
Speaker 1: He's like, I had just found this type of acupuncture.
7:09
Speaker 1: He's like, keep trying it, like see how it feels.
7:12
Speaker 1: And honestly, I never went back to him because within
7:15
Speaker 1: a few months my hip pain like decreased significantly. And
7:18
Speaker 1: then I kept seeing this acupuncturist for you know, the
7:21
Speaker 1: same issues, but just getting deeper into working through it
7:25
Speaker 1: and was actually getting a treatment one day and I
7:28
Speaker 1: was like, huh, acupuncture. It's like this guy's life must
7:31
Speaker 1: be so interesting. He like literally changed my life. He
7:34
Speaker 1: probably does this with other people. And at that point,
7:36
Speaker 1: I was like, I wonder how all this works, Like
7:38
Speaker 1: why did this get better? Like why didn't anyone else
7:40
Speaker 1: know about this? Why is this? Why am I like
7:42
Speaker 1: two years into having pain before discovering this? And I
7:45
Speaker 1: just became like super interested and I asked him. I
7:48
Speaker 1: was like, how long is acupuncture school? And I was
7:51
Speaker 1: just assuming he was going to say, like, oh, it's
7:53
Speaker 1: like six months. It's like a certificate, you know, That's
7:55
Speaker 1: what I thought it was, and I think that's what
7:56
Speaker 1: most people think. And he's like, no, it's a three
7:58
Speaker 1: year master's And I was like wow, really, like that
8:01
Speaker 1: sounds legitimate. That's like a high barrier to entry. Not
8:04
Speaker 1: anyone can just like go and do it. He you know,
8:07
Speaker 1: he sounded really knowledgeable about like my muscles and what
8:10
Speaker 1: was going on with me. And then I was like, oh,
8:11
Speaker 1: where did you go to school? And he mentioned the
8:13
Speaker 1: school tri State College of Acupuncture. And there's another school,
8:16
Speaker 1: Pacific College. Those are like the two main schools, and
8:19
Speaker 1: I went to visit them. My wife at the time,
8:21
Speaker 1: we were just dating, and she was super supportive of like,
8:24
Speaker 1: you know, like, if you really want to do it,
8:26
Speaker 1: I'll go with you to the open house. And we
8:28
Speaker 1: went together, and you know, then I went to acupuncture school.
8:31
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, that's you know, it's so interesting that that
8:35
Speaker 2: was kind of where your curiosity led you, because it's
8:39
Speaker 2: awesome that we often have the opportunity to get profoundly
8:42
Speaker 2: impacted by a range of professionals in our life. But
8:45
Speaker 2: you were profoundly impacted so much so that you decided
8:49
Speaker 2: to make a major career pivot.
8:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it was, you know, I was at a
8:53
Speaker 1: point in my finance career where I had, you know,
8:54
Speaker 1: I was like moving jobs every couple of years hoping
8:57
Speaker 1: that there would be some better fit. I really just
8:59
Speaker 1: didn't like the life lifestyle, and I just wanted more
9:02
Speaker 1: freedom in my life and the idea of being an acupuncturist.
9:04
Speaker 1: Like I have my own business. I get to set
9:06
Speaker 1: my own hours, I get to decide what I do
9:08
Speaker 1: and don't do, And I really like that aspect of
9:10
Speaker 1: being a business owner. Although it is stressful. Yeah, I
9:13
Speaker 1: really enjoy the flexibility. I love that.
9:15
Speaker 2: I love that. So upon getting into acupuncture school, was
9:21
Speaker 2: it what you thought that it was going to be?
9:24
Speaker 1: I think yes and no. I think it was harder
9:26
Speaker 1: than I thought it would be. There's just so many
9:28
Speaker 1: layers to acupuncture, and you know, like I discovered how
9:32
Speaker 1: many different types of acupuncture are because I think we're
9:34
Speaker 1: you know, especially in this country, we just see that
9:36
Speaker 1: one type where people set needles in and you rest
9:39
Speaker 1: and you don't feel that much and you come out
9:41
Speaker 1: of the treatment wondering like did anything really happen? I'm
9:43
Speaker 1: not really sure? And that you know that it's called
9:46
Speaker 1: traditional Chinese medicine style acupuncture. It works really well, like
9:49
Speaker 1: with your nervous system, and it does help you feel
9:52
Speaker 1: more calm, It helps with digestion, it can help with fertility,
9:55
Speaker 1: you know, headaches, general stress, but that works more subtly,
10:00
Speaker 1: and for me, it was like stumbling across these other styles.
10:02
Speaker 1: We were trained in that style, a Japanese style that
10:04
Speaker 1: is a lot more gentle and uses smaller needles, and
10:07
Speaker 1: its practiced by a lot of blind acupuncturists in Japan
10:10
Speaker 1: because it's a lot based more on feel, and you know,
10:13
Speaker 1: my acupuncture practice is more informed by touch, Like before
10:16
Speaker 1: I do the treatment, I feel different areas of your body,
10:19
Speaker 1: and not all types of acupuncture do that. Sometimes it's
10:22
Speaker 1: just like, oh, your back hurts, I'm not really going
10:24
Speaker 1: to touch it. I'm just going to put needles in
10:26
Speaker 1: these points and let you rest. And then there's the
10:28
Speaker 1: trigger point style. That is really what drew me to
10:31
Speaker 1: acupuncture school. And in some states, you know, that's more
10:35
Speaker 1: in the dry needling realm, and being in New York,
10:37
Speaker 1: only acupuncturists can do that type of treatment. So that's
10:40
Speaker 1: kind of what led me to go to acupuncture school too.
10:42
Speaker 1: It was like, I want to do what this guy does.
10:44
Speaker 1: I want to you know, I want to treat people
10:46
Speaker 1: like he treated me. And acupuncture is an interesting profession
10:49
Speaker 1: because it was a very eclectic group of students. In
10:53
Speaker 1: our class, there were a lot of few people just
10:54
Speaker 1: straight out of school, a few people like me that
10:56
Speaker 1: were like second career people, and then there were some
10:59
Speaker 1: people who are older there, kids were going to college
11:01
Speaker 1: and they just like wanted a new career. And for
11:03
Speaker 1: most of us, like we had some really profound experience
11:06
Speaker 1: with acupuncture because it's not the type of profession that's like, oh,
11:09
Speaker 1: I'm going to go be a doctor. Oh I'm going
11:10
Speaker 1: to be a police officer. It's just like, oh, like
11:13
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't even know it existed until I
11:15
Speaker 1: was like twenty five years old. So it was a
11:17
Speaker 1: really cool group. And then that also when I'm treating
11:19
Speaker 1: other patients, like oftentimes I've had some of the pain
11:22
Speaker 1: that they have, so it's like I think it just
11:24
Speaker 1: provides like another layer of empathy and like, you know,
11:26
Speaker 1: I know what the treatment feels like, I know you
11:29
Speaker 1: know what it feels like afterwards, and I know psychologically
11:31
Speaker 1: what you're going through dealing with, you know, chronic pain.
11:34
Speaker 1: So it was a really fun experience.
11:36
Speaker 2: So you listed a couple of different types of acupuncture,
11:39
Speaker 2: traditional Chinese acupuncture. You also mentioned trigger points, So for
11:43
Speaker 2: the listener, let's sum up the most popular types of acupuncture.
11:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know the reality is that there are
11:51
Speaker 1: probably hundreds or thousands of styles of acupuncture. You know,
11:54
Speaker 1: it originated over two thousand years ago in China, and
11:58
Speaker 1: really until not that long ago, it wasn't really standardized.
12:01
Speaker 1: It was more of like kind of like martial arts,
12:03
Speaker 1: where there's like family lineage of like the master and
12:06
Speaker 1: the apprentice, and there's like secret you know, points and
12:09
Speaker 1: secret things that you know only like you learn if
12:12
Speaker 1: you learn from the master. And that's how acupuncture was
12:14
Speaker 1: for a long period of time. And then it became
12:16
Speaker 1: more standardized with like the opening of acupuncture schools, and
12:20
Speaker 1: then traditional Chinese medicine is actually more of a modern thing.
12:23
Speaker 1: I forget which decade, but in the nineteen some things,
12:26
Speaker 1: you know, China went through like a medical revolution where
12:29
Speaker 1: they started implementing like Western medicine more and kind of
12:32
Speaker 1: abandoned Chinese medicines for some time. And I think it
12:35
Speaker 1: was under Mau he decided to like bring back some
12:38
Speaker 1: traditional Chinese medicine, but more in like an americanized, standardized way,
12:42
Speaker 1: where like you know, if you have a cough, there's
12:44
Speaker 1: like an acupuncture point prescription, and there's like an herbal
12:46
Speaker 1: medicine prescription. And it was kind of like revived in
12:51
Speaker 1: that sense, but it was like more standardized where they're like,
12:53
Speaker 1: you know, I don't remember when, but they like had
12:55
Speaker 1: names of points and channels and it became a lot
12:58
Speaker 1: more standardized than it was originally. And then it spread
13:01
Speaker 1: to Japan and Korea, you know, they have their own
13:04
Speaker 1: different types of acupuncture, to Vietnam, and then eventually made
13:06
Speaker 1: its way to Europe, so there's like a whole French
13:09
Speaker 1: style of acupuncture. Then it reached like the UK, and
13:12
Speaker 1: then you know, as it is, it reached like Europe.
13:14
Speaker 1: In the US, there are like these new like medicalized
13:16
Speaker 1: styles of acupuncture, and you know, the trigger point stuff
13:19
Speaker 1: kind of falls in that realm. There's a style called
13:22
Speaker 1: medical acupuncture. There is Western acupuncture. There's trigger point acupuncture,
13:25
Speaker 1: dry needling, and effectively like you know, traditional acupuncture looks
13:29
Speaker 1: more of like acupuncture meridians and chi and energy and
13:32
Speaker 1: the idea that like there are energy blockages and you
13:35
Speaker 1: free them up with acupuncture needles. That sounds really confusing
13:38
Speaker 1: and esoteric to a lot of people. And what a
13:40
Speaker 1: lot of these Western styles have done now that we
13:42
Speaker 1: have like the ability to do research and like hook
13:45
Speaker 1: people up to machines and see what's happening in their body.
13:47
Speaker 1: There are actually a lot of good physiological explanations of
13:50
Speaker 1: what happens when you stick an acupuncture needle in, and
13:52
Speaker 1: you know it does some things like release pain endorphins
13:55
Speaker 1: and reduce stress, and you know, in the case of
13:57
Speaker 1: trigger point work like release muscle nuts and deact trigger points.
14:01
Speaker 1: And you know, now, like I'm more in the vein
14:04
Speaker 1: of like when I explain treatment to patients, it's more
14:06
Speaker 1: of like in a physiological and Western sense. There are
14:09
Speaker 1: a lot of acupunctures who are more esoteric and talk
14:12
Speaker 1: about liver energy and chi and you know, really what
14:15
Speaker 1: those are our metaphors for the human body. And it's
14:17
Speaker 1: not a surprise that like the stuff we found with
14:20
Speaker 1: trigger points really overlaps the traditional stuff because you're really
14:23
Speaker 1: looking at the same at the same body.
14:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So is there a difference between the trigger
14:29
Speaker 2: point acupuncture as you describe it and dry needling.
14:32
Speaker 1: Really the difference is who's doing it right. So if
14:35
Speaker 1: an acupuncturist is releasing trigger points, it might be called
14:38
Speaker 1: trigger point acupuncture. Dry needling is a coin a term
14:41
Speaker 1: that was coined a few decades ago, and it's probably
14:44
Speaker 1: interesting to talk about the history of it, because you know,
14:46
Speaker 1: in its current form, dry needling uses acupuncture needles. So
14:49
Speaker 1: that's why there's this whole thing of like is it acupuncture,
14:52
Speaker 1: is it not acupuncture? And effectively what it is today
14:55
Speaker 1: is using an acupuncture needle to find and release trigger points.
14:58
Speaker 1: And trigger points are hyper irritable bands of muscle that
15:02
Speaker 1: cause either local or referred pain in a specific pattern.
15:05
Speaker 1: This kind of research started in the thirties and forties,
15:08
Speaker 1: and there's a doctor Janet Trevelle is like the most
15:11
Speaker 1: famous one. She was doctor Kennedy's physician, and she was
15:15
Speaker 1: a physiatrist and I think a cardiologist, and she was
15:18
Speaker 1: really interested in understanding muscle pain. So what they did
15:21
Speaker 1: in the early research was inject irritants into muscles and
15:24
Speaker 1: then study where the pain referral traveled to, and then
15:27
Speaker 1: they mapped all this stuff out, so like, for instance,
15:30
Speaker 1: if you have pain in the top of your shin,
15:33
Speaker 1: those muscles connect to your toes and your feet and
15:35
Speaker 1: you can actually get like big toe pain from your
15:38
Speaker 1: tibilis interior muscle being tight. So they found that by
15:42
Speaker 1: sticking a hypodermic needle in with medication and injecting it
15:45
Speaker 1: into the trigger point, they would relieve the pain. And
15:49
Speaker 1: fast forward a few decades, I think it was the seventies.
15:51
Speaker 1: They you know, if you ever got a flu shot,
15:53
Speaker 1: sometimes they put it in your shoulder and your muscle twitches.
15:56
Speaker 1: So they discovered that it wasn't just the medication that
15:59
Speaker 1: was leaving the paint, it was the muscle spasm that
16:01
Speaker 1: happened when the hypodermic needle went in. So then that's
16:05
Speaker 1: where the term dry needling came from. Is they started
16:07
Speaker 1: to release trigger points with a hypodermic needle, which you
16:10
Speaker 1: could imagine is extremely painful leaves like bruising, bleeding, I
16:14
Speaker 1: mean even just getting one injection sometimes you get that.
16:17
Speaker 1: And so then there were some acupuncturists some were also
16:20
Speaker 1: physicians as well, like mds, who started thinking, look, why
16:23
Speaker 1: don't we just use an acupuncture needle to do this.
16:26
Speaker 1: It won't leave, you know, as many side effects, it
16:28
Speaker 1: won't bruise and hurt, it's more tolerable. And if it
16:30
Speaker 1: really is just the muscle twitch, then we don't need
16:32
Speaker 1: to use any medication. And so that's how the modern
16:35
Speaker 1: form of dry needling came about. So it's a little
16:37
Speaker 1: complicated because in one sense it does use an acupuncture needle.
16:40
Speaker 1: In another sense, it originates in a totally different paradigm
16:43
Speaker 1: that did not rely on she and energy and meridian.
16:46
Speaker 1: So it's a really cool fusion of like when acupuncture
16:49
Speaker 1: meets like you know, western physiology, and so dry needling
16:54
Speaker 1: now is practiced by a lot of professions, right, And
16:56
Speaker 1: what's really cool about acupuncture, like in this moment, is
16:59
Speaker 1: there's so much interest in it. You know, acupuncturers have
17:02
Speaker 1: to go to school for three years and get licensed
17:05
Speaker 1: and board certified, but actually other professions that like mds
17:08
Speaker 1: can get certified in acupuncture, dentists, chiropractors, pts, you know,
17:15
Speaker 1: nurse practitioners, occupational therapists, athletic trainers in some states, and
17:20
Speaker 1: you know for some of them, they don't call it
17:22
Speaker 1: acupuncture because if they did, they wouldn't be allowed to
17:24
Speaker 1: practice it. So this term dry needling came about to
17:26
Speaker 1: really describe like using an acupuncture needle by non acupuncturists,
17:30
Speaker 1: and not in a way that's like in the Chinese
17:33
Speaker 1: medicine realm.
17:34
Speaker 2: If someone is going to someone who's not a licensed
17:38
Speaker 2: acupuncturist to get dry needling. What should they be checking
17:42
Speaker 2: that this person.
17:43
Speaker 1: Has I mean, in reality, it would be checking for
17:46
Speaker 1: how long they've been doing it for. Because the training
17:48
Speaker 1: standards for non acupuncturist is much lower. In some states
17:51
Speaker 1: there are none, it's like a gray area. In other
17:54
Speaker 1: states it's like twenty to one hundred hours. I think
17:56
Speaker 1: one hundred is the most training. If an MD is
17:59
Speaker 1: doing it. In New York, for instance, they need three
18:01
Speaker 1: hundred hours of hands on training, which is pretty good.
18:04
Speaker 1: And I think that's my biggest issue with non acupuncturists
18:07
Speaker 1: using needles is often if they've done you know, I've
18:09
Speaker 1: done an entire dry need link course that physical therapist
18:12
Speaker 1: do was eighty hours, three weekends. We needled each muscle
18:15
Speaker 1: in the body once or twice, and then we never
18:17
Speaker 1: really did a supervised treatment. So my biggest issue is
18:20
Speaker 1: that like there you're just going out in the world
18:22
Speaker 1: after a few weeks and you haven't really had like,
18:24
Speaker 1: you know, acupunctory school. We were in the clinic two
18:26
Speaker 1: years doing supervised treatments on real patients with teachers guiding us,
18:30
Speaker 1: and by the time I graduated, I was like, oh,
18:32
Speaker 1: I know what I'm doing. I'll be fine, right, And
18:34
Speaker 1: I think one thing patients will notice is the difference
18:36
Speaker 1: of like when the needle goes in, because you probably
18:40
Speaker 1: asked that again, but whether it hurts when the needle
18:43
Speaker 1: goes in, and if an acupuncturist or someone who's really
18:45
Speaker 1: good at using the needle is doing it, that you
18:47
Speaker 1: shouldn't really feel that pinchy feeling when they all goes in.
18:49
Speaker 1: It's really when someone isn't as well versed that you
18:52
Speaker 1: might feel that a little more teddy.
18:53
Speaker 2: You're doing my job for me, you're asking yourself of
18:56
Speaker 2: my question. I mean, we were definitely going to get here,
18:58
Speaker 2: So I'm glad that you run pain when it comes
19:01
Speaker 2: to acupuncture. Now, let me just say I am someone
19:04
Speaker 2: who growing up up until this point I'm in my
19:06
Speaker 2: mid thirties, I have never quote unquote been good with
19:10
Speaker 2: needles in that like, if I get a shot, I
19:12
Speaker 2: just don't look at it. When I was little young,
19:15
Speaker 2: it was like the thing my mother dreaded doing was
19:18
Speaker 2: bringing me to the doctor's office to get any sort
19:20
Speaker 2: of injection. So with that said, I definitely the first
19:24
Speaker 2: time I went to acupuncture, which was a few years
19:27
Speaker 2: ago with a different professional, was very hesitant on it.
19:30
Speaker 2: I just had my own qualms about what I was
19:32
Speaker 2: getting into. I will say, as someone now who has
19:35
Speaker 2: done acupuncture with multiple professionals, it does not hurt. Maybe
19:40
Speaker 2: I'm a little biased, maybe people can be a little
19:42
Speaker 2: bit more sensitive, But to your point, if you're going
19:44
Speaker 2: to someone who knows what they're doing, and they have
19:47
Speaker 2: the training, and they have a good rapport with clients
19:50
Speaker 2: who recommend them highly, then you're going to be in
19:53
Speaker 2: pretty good hands.
19:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think you touched on a few things.
19:56
Speaker 1: One I think the biggest hesitation is just this fear
19:59
Speaker 1: of me that we have. I mean, I don't look
20:02
Speaker 1: when I get my flu shot, I don't like getting
20:03
Speaker 1: my bloodron and I'm an acupuncturist. And then I think,
20:07
Speaker 1: and I see like my three year old, right, I
20:09
Speaker 1: take her to the doctor to get her flu shot
20:11
Speaker 1: or a COVID shot, and you know, she's like terrified
20:13
Speaker 1: the moment we're going in because she knows like it's
20:16
Speaker 1: kind of gonna hurt. And so I think some of
20:18
Speaker 1: that is like a trauma of like, you know, it's
20:20
Speaker 1: not fun to get a shot that does hurt. It's
20:22
Speaker 1: not fun to get your blood drawn. It feels weird.
20:25
Speaker 1: So I think when people hear the word needles for acupuncture,
20:27
Speaker 1: they assume it's the same kind of needle, right, A
20:29
Speaker 1: hypodermic needle has fluid in it, and also that feeling
20:32
Speaker 1: of either fluid going in or out can feel I don't,
20:35
Speaker 1: I don't like that feeling. And so like, acupuncture needles
20:37
Speaker 1: are ten times thinner. They're not filled with any fluid.
20:40
Speaker 1: They're like the thickness of a human hair, and they
20:43
Speaker 1: don't hurt when they go in because they're so thin.
20:46
Speaker 1: And yeah, there is some sensation with acupuncture, especially like
20:49
Speaker 1: the trigger point or dry needling stuff, because you know,
20:52
Speaker 1: the goal there is to like make your muscle spasm
20:54
Speaker 1: so that it releases the trigger point or the tightness there.
20:57
Speaker 1: But even that, like you know, the word pain can
20:59
Speaker 1: be very very complicated, right, because it's very subjective. Right,
21:02
Speaker 1: So usually to me, pain is sharp, burning and stabbing,
21:05
Speaker 1: that kind of in the vein of that sensation, something
21:07
Speaker 1: that's like dull achy heavy, even like muscly, like muscle soreness,
21:12
Speaker 1: Like would you call that pain? Some people would say
21:14
Speaker 1: muscle soreness is painful, and some would just say, like
21:16
Speaker 1: it's a strong sensation, right, And I think acupuncture falls
21:19
Speaker 1: more in the vein, or it should of like it's
21:21
Speaker 1: a sensation. It can be strong sometimes, but I wouldn't.
21:24
Speaker 1: It's not supposed to be like sharp, burning, stabbing, electrical
21:27
Speaker 1: like that kind of sensation. So I think, I think,
21:32
Speaker 1: you know, it's complicated, and there's multiple layers of people
21:34
Speaker 1: are scared of needles. And I was terrified the first
21:37
Speaker 1: time I had acupuncture. I went to like a person
21:40
Speaker 1: in Queens who did traditional acupuncture, and they did not
21:43
Speaker 1: explain what they were doing or why they were doing it.
21:45
Speaker 1: And my mom brought me there and was like this
21:47
Speaker 1: person helped somebody and you should go there. And I
21:50
Speaker 1: was just terrified. And then she was doing the treatment.
21:51
Speaker 1: I had no idea what I was supposed to feel
21:54
Speaker 1: before or during after. So for me personally, I spend
21:56
Speaker 1: a lot of time with patients explaining why we're doing
22:01
Speaker 1: the treatment, what the goal is, what it's going to
22:03
Speaker 1: feel like, all of that, because that actually helps prime
22:06
Speaker 1: your brain from when I'm doing the treatment that when
22:09
Speaker 1: I'm needling, you can relax, right, because if I tell
22:11
Speaker 1: you like, you're going to feel a strong, heavy muscle
22:14
Speaker 1: aake when I work on your trapezius muscle. It might
22:16
Speaker 1: feel almost like a little cramp sometimes if it's really strong.
22:19
Speaker 1: When it happens, your brain has a sensation it's new.
22:22
Speaker 1: So one thing our brain does when we something new
22:24
Speaker 1: happens is we go into that like defense mechanism like
22:27
Speaker 1: is this normal? Is it okay? And then if I've
22:29
Speaker 1: explained it to you, that sensation happens and then you're like, oh,
22:32
Speaker 1: that's what he said, Okay, that's normal. But if I
22:35
Speaker 1: don't say anything, then you can get into that place
22:37
Speaker 1: of anxiety of like, oh my god, is that normal?
22:39
Speaker 1: Should I tell him? Oh my god? Does he know
22:41
Speaker 1: what he's doing? Why did I come here? Your brain
22:43
Speaker 1: goes in this spiral of like and then it's like,
22:44
Speaker 1: oh my god, there are needles, and it can get
22:46
Speaker 1: it can like it can devolve very quickly. So like
22:49
Speaker 1: it's really important to build rapport and trust. And often
22:52
Speaker 1: I make it sound worse than it's going to sound,
22:54
Speaker 1: because it's like a consent thing of like if I
22:57
Speaker 1: tell you you're going to be sore, really sore, and
22:59
Speaker 1: you might feel some strong sensation and then you don't
23:01
Speaker 1: feel that, You're like, oh, that was a lot better
23:02
Speaker 1: than he said, at least the kind of know what
23:04
Speaker 1: could happen?
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Speaker 2: percent off the entire store today. What you're getting at
26:08
Speaker 2: here is the after effects of a treatment. You said
26:13
Speaker 2: you could be sore. So before we get into perhaps
26:16
Speaker 2: the effects of having acupuncture, why don't we chat about
26:20
Speaker 2: the potential benefits of acupuncture. Why is it that someone
26:24
Speaker 2: might seek out an acupuncturist.
26:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there's a lot of reasons. Acupuncture treats
26:29
Speaker 1: a range of things. I mean, before Western medicine and China,
26:32
Speaker 1: acupuncture with herbal medicine was like an entire medical system
26:36
Speaker 1: that can treat anything like pain, digestive issues, sleep issues, malaria,
26:41
Speaker 1: Like I learned how to treat malaria and acupuncture school,
26:44
Speaker 1: because like in the traditional Chinese medicine textbooks, that's what
26:47
Speaker 1: was used, and obviously I don't treat that here because
26:49
Speaker 1: you would go to a doctor or hospital. But like
26:51
Speaker 1: the point is it can treat literally anything, and acupuncture
26:55
Speaker 1: tends to work better for like physical complaints. Like in
26:58
Speaker 1: the US, pain is probably the prime or reason, whether
27:01
Speaker 1: it's like chronic pain or acute pain or muscle tightness.
27:04
Speaker 1: That's like and especially for me, that's my specialty is pain.
27:08
Speaker 1: And then also I work a lot with physical symptoms
27:11
Speaker 1: of stress. So we're talking about like the nervous system
27:13
Speaker 1: a lot. And when we get into that elevated nervous
27:17
Speaker 1: system state, we can have like a fight or flight response,
27:19
Speaker 1: or we can have like a freeze response. And there
27:21
Speaker 1: are physiological changes that happen when our nervous system is
27:24
Speaker 1: like activated too much. When we go into that fight
27:28
Speaker 1: or flight state, our heart rate speeds up, our digestion
27:30
Speaker 1: shuts down, sexual function kind of turns off, our muscles
27:34
Speaker 1: get really tense. We're like on like alert for danger.
27:37
Speaker 1: And that's like you know, if you're getting chased by
27:39
Speaker 1: a tiger, it's like a survival you're in like survival mode.
27:42
Speaker 1: And you know, sometimes when people have acute chronic stress,
27:44
Speaker 1: they have digestive issues, sleep issues, fertility issues, and acupuncture
27:48
Speaker 1: works really great with the nervous system to calm things down.
27:51
Speaker 1: It activates the other side of that, which is the
27:53
Speaker 1: parasympathetic nervous system, and really what that's seeking is like
27:56
Speaker 1: making you feel safe, right, and acupuncture can like active
28:00
Speaker 1: bid endorphins and you know, other stress relieving chemicals. So
28:05
Speaker 1: that's how generally how traditional acupuncture tends to work, and
28:07
Speaker 1: that's why it works for so many things, and that's
28:09
Speaker 1: why treatments look similar because it's really working with like
28:13
Speaker 1: getting you back to homeostasis, like from your nervous system.
28:16
Speaker 1: And then there's the other side, which is like even
28:18
Speaker 1: more physible, which is the trigger point work. You know,
28:21
Speaker 1: that's a totally different objective, which is to find muscle
28:25
Speaker 1: tightness and trigger points release that tightness so that you
28:27
Speaker 1: have less pain, more mobility, and you know, and restored
28:31
Speaker 1: muscle function essentially so that you know, that feels different
28:35
Speaker 1: afterwards because with that muscle spasm, there's like a release
28:38
Speaker 1: of chemicals that happens, and it's not necessarily from the needle,
28:41
Speaker 1: it's more from the spasm. Because to back up, when
28:44
Speaker 1: you get muscle tightness, you know, your muscle is essentially contracted.
28:49
Speaker 1: It doesn't get as much blooder oxygen, so the pH
28:51
Speaker 1: drops and then all these pain and inflammatory chemicals get
28:54
Speaker 1: sent to tell you that something's wrong. And that's essentially
28:57
Speaker 1: what pain is. It's a signal. Pain is something that
29:00
Speaker 1: often we treat with blocking pain, right, take this pill
29:04
Speaker 1: or get this injection, and really pain is meant to
29:06
Speaker 1: tell us like, hey, something's wrong here. I'm trying to
29:08
Speaker 1: like tell you, like hello, look at me, like I
29:11
Speaker 1: need some some you know, I need some attention here.
29:15
Speaker 1: And so acupuncture works more with like listening to those
29:18
Speaker 1: signals and trying to restore balance either to your nervous
29:21
Speaker 1: system or like physically through trigger point work. And that's
29:25
Speaker 1: really what the goal is.
29:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so we talked about soreness being something that
29:29
Speaker 2: could happen as a result of getting acupuncture done. What
29:33
Speaker 2: else might happen after your acupuncture session.
29:36
Speaker 1: In a lot of cases, you'll feel a lot more
29:37
Speaker 1: relaxed after, especially for activating that nervous system response. People
29:41
Speaker 1: tend to walk out feeling really relaxed and lighter. And
29:44
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you can feel kind of tired afterwards,
29:46
Speaker 1: especially if you've been carrying a lot of tension and
29:48
Speaker 1: we've you know, helped release some.
29:50
Speaker 2: Of that is hydration important after a treatment. Yeah, yeah,
29:54
Speaker 2: I think I feel like they always say that to me.
29:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, drink extra water because so that helps, especially if
29:59
Speaker 1: we're talking about like least seing neurotransmitters or soreness chemicals, right,
30:02
Speaker 1: it helps kind of flush things out and promote like
30:05
Speaker 1: fluid metabolism and circulation. So yeah, I always tell people
30:07
Speaker 1: drink extra water if we're doing muscle work to like
30:10
Speaker 1: same thing you do after a workout, because the soreness
30:12
Speaker 1: after like a trigger point treatment, it'll feel like workout soreness.
30:16
Speaker 1: So hot hot shower, muscle cream, ebbs, some salt bath,
30:19
Speaker 1: extra water, you know, light on the exercise till the
30:22
Speaker 1: soreness goes away, is usually what I tell people.
30:24
Speaker 2: Right, because after you do like a leg workout, you
30:26
Speaker 2: wouldn't in the next day like go do another heavy
30:28
Speaker 2: leg workout. So it's something to be cognizant of if
30:30
Speaker 2: you're getting that area treated.
30:31
Speaker 1: Right, And that's exactly how I describe it to people,
30:34
Speaker 1: Like it's fine to exercise, but if you're really sore,
30:36
Speaker 1: just like treat it like you did a workout.
30:38
Speaker 2: Okay, So knowing that then you mentioned before the buzzword fertility,
30:43
Speaker 2: which leads me to the question, is there a certain
30:46
Speaker 2: time when individuals should maybe be wary of coming to
30:50
Speaker 2: an acupuncturist because you say fertility, I think pregnancy. Is
30:54
Speaker 2: it safe for pregnant women or are there other things
30:56
Speaker 2: that you might want to take into consideration before coming
30:58
Speaker 2: for treatment.
30:59
Speaker 1: With the types of things, it's important to tell your
31:01
Speaker 1: acupuncturists if you are pregnant, because there are certain areas
31:04
Speaker 1: of the body you don't want to work on, like
31:05
Speaker 1: in the belly or in the low back.
31:07
Speaker 2: Well.
31:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also in traditional acupuncture, there are certain acupuncture
31:10
Speaker 1: points that are stimulating and they've actually done research can
31:12
Speaker 1: like stimulate uterine contraction, so you want to avoid those
31:15
Speaker 1: while you're pregnant. Acupuncture is also used for like labor prep,
31:18
Speaker 1: so sometimes if someone's like overdue or late, they will
31:22
Speaker 1: go to an acupuncturist and they'll do some of those
31:24
Speaker 1: more stimulating points, and there are some research that shows
31:27
Speaker 1: that it can help like smooth delivery, and even like
31:30
Speaker 1: I've had some friends who have said I got had
31:32
Speaker 1: acupuncture and then I like gave birth right after. And
31:35
Speaker 1: you know, with fertility, it's a lot about like regulating
31:38
Speaker 1: the menstrual cycle before like before conception, because if that's
31:42
Speaker 1: thrown off, then your ability to like fertilize an egg
31:44
Speaker 1: is impacted. So often acupuncture and herbal medicines use a
31:48
Speaker 1: lot with fertility as well. It can be really really,
31:51
Speaker 1: really really effective because especially coming off birth control, there
31:54
Speaker 1: can be some side effects and like your period is
31:57
Speaker 1: impacted because it's been altered, you know, through the medication.
32:01
Speaker 1: And so really fertility work is a lot about the
32:05
Speaker 1: menstrual cycle and also like the nervous system. Right, we
32:07
Speaker 1: were talking about what happens from physical symptoms of stress,
32:10
Speaker 1: and it does affect your menstrual cycle. And then women
32:12
Speaker 1: who are like athletes that run a lot that also
32:15
Speaker 1: impacts the menstrual cycle. So with fertility it's often about
32:18
Speaker 1: like managing stress and like working on the menstrual cycle.
32:21
Speaker 1: And then once you're pregnant, there are common things that
32:23
Speaker 1: come up, like you know, nausea, morning sickness, especially in
32:27
Speaker 1: the early stages. Acupuncture can help with that. There are
32:29
Speaker 1: some cases of morning sickness like that my wife had
32:32
Speaker 1: that like nothing works for and it just it just sucks. Yeah,
32:35
Speaker 1: and then later on, you know, you'll get like psyatica
32:37
Speaker 1: pain in the second and third trimester, and acupuncture is
32:40
Speaker 1: really great for that because you can need a like
32:41
Speaker 1: into the hips when you're pregnant, and especially it's really
32:44
Speaker 1: just the glutes especially that get super tight. Yeah, yeah,
32:47
Speaker 1: during that stuff. So yeah, it can be really great
32:49
Speaker 1: for that kind of stuff.
32:50
Speaker 2: Something that's been interesting for me has been working with
32:53
Speaker 2: multiple experts at once. So I started coming to you
32:55
Speaker 2: because I'm dealing with this planter fascy, I guess, and
32:57
Speaker 2: you came highly recommended, and so I'm working with you.
33:01
Speaker 2: I'm also working with a pd PT and the diadrist.
33:04
Speaker 2: So would you recommend for someone who is seeing multiple
33:07
Speaker 2: experts for an issue to make sure that you're communicating
33:10
Speaker 2: kind of with your expert squad about what's going on
33:13
Speaker 2: between all of them.
33:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really important because we want to make sure
33:17
Speaker 1: especially timing of treatment and what we're doing so there
33:20
Speaker 1: isn't too much overlap. But you know, acupunctures are great
33:22
Speaker 1: support for especially for physical things like physical therapy and
33:27
Speaker 1: some of the other stuff you've done, like some of
33:28
Speaker 1: the laser treatment. Acupunctures are a really great synergis, especially
33:32
Speaker 1: with pain related things. Right there's a reason you had
33:35
Speaker 1: the pain in the first place. So while we're treating
33:38
Speaker 1: the pain to try to make you feel better, there
33:40
Speaker 1: are other layers of that, like trying to understand what happened,
33:44
Speaker 1: you know, says we work a lot with runners and athletes.
33:47
Speaker 1: Often we're thinking about like how's your posture, how is
33:50
Speaker 1: your running form? Like what kind of movements are you
33:52
Speaker 1: doing during your sport? Are you training too hard? Are
33:54
Speaker 1: you not recovering enough? And there's often you can kind
33:57
Speaker 1: of figure out a reason you got you know, especially
34:00
Speaker 1: if you're a run right, it's a very bilateral mechanical exercise.
34:03
Speaker 1: If you have like one sided heel pain, right, something
34:07
Speaker 1: is going on that that's being used too much, or
34:10
Speaker 1: there's too much pressure on there, or something's wrong with
34:12
Speaker 1: your shoes. There's some sort of story behind it, and
34:15
Speaker 1: oftentimes that can be complicated. But really, like acupuncture is
34:18
Speaker 1: great for like releasing muscle tightness, relieving pain, but then
34:22
Speaker 1: you want to try to figure out why you got there.
34:24
Speaker 1: And you know, that's where like things like physical therapy
34:26
Speaker 1: and strength training come in, because, especially with pain and
34:29
Speaker 1: athletic injuries, it's important to fixing balances and strengthen weak areas.
34:34
Speaker 1: And you know, I work a lot with pts and
34:37
Speaker 1: strength coaches and running coaches, and there's just such a
34:40
Speaker 1: great synergy of working with that community where you know,
34:43
Speaker 1: I'm loosening people up the pts doing manual work, strengthening them,
34:47
Speaker 1: giving them exercises, you know, the running coaches altering their
34:50
Speaker 1: training plan right, And it's a really nice synergy with
34:54
Speaker 1: using other types of treatment.
34:55
Speaker 2: So then the question comes up, how long should it
34:59
Speaker 2: take for this to work? Which I know, I know
35:02
Speaker 2: this it's a very generic question and that answer can
35:05
Speaker 2: be extremely multifaceted. But what would you say to someone
35:08
Speaker 2: who comes in here and is like, can I do
35:10
Speaker 2: this for a month and all be good?
35:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really depends. So I'll give you some examples
35:15
Speaker 1: because maybe that will illustrate the point better. I think
35:17
Speaker 1: one big misconception about acupuncture is that it's like a procedure,
35:20
Speaker 1: like you know, you get surgery and then your hip
35:22
Speaker 1: is fixed. Yeah, it's not like that. Generally. There are
35:25
Speaker 1: some cases where, like you know, if you strain a
35:27
Speaker 1: muscle like this morning, that if we get to it
35:30
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, sometimes it can be like a one treatment fix.
35:32
Speaker 1: But if especially if you're dealing with chronic issues, especially
35:36
Speaker 1: chronic pain, there's more to it where you know, there's
35:39
Speaker 1: changes to your nervous system and how you perceive pain
35:42
Speaker 1: and feel pain, and then there's just like mechanical adjustments
35:45
Speaker 1: to like if your heel is hurting, you start running differently,
35:48
Speaker 1: and then you're kind of moving in a way that
35:50
Speaker 1: reinforces the issue. So sometimes you have to work through
35:54
Speaker 1: that with getting treatment and then like some of those
35:56
Speaker 1: other stuff we talked about, like fixing, like strength work
35:59
Speaker 1: and and stuff like that. So it can be complicated,
36:03
Speaker 1: you know. I generally recommend people come in once or
36:05
Speaker 1: twice a week for an issue, and usually we can
36:07
Speaker 1: get a good idea based on like how long it's
36:10
Speaker 1: going on for, So the longer it's been going on
36:11
Speaker 1: for generally the longer it will take. I usually tell
36:14
Speaker 1: people like, after about you know, four to six visits,
36:16
Speaker 1: we should have an idea, like there should be some
36:18
Speaker 1: change during that period of time. It can get even
36:21
Speaker 1: more complicated when you're working with runners training for a marathon,
36:24
Speaker 1: because often you're like increasing your load while we're doing treatment,
36:27
Speaker 1: and sometimes the goal is to just like either stay
36:30
Speaker 1: the same or get slightly better and get you through
36:32
Speaker 1: like the marathon, and then hopefully afterwards you'll have time
36:35
Speaker 1: to recover. Because it depends on what the goal is too, right,
36:39
Speaker 1: there are different reasons to use acupuncture. One can be
36:42
Speaker 1: just for general stress and anxiety. One can be for
36:46
Speaker 1: you know, post workout soreness. One can be for injury recovery,
36:49
Speaker 1: one can be for injury prevention.
36:51
Speaker 2: Right.
36:51
Speaker 1: Patients sometimes come in like once a month or so
36:54
Speaker 1: just for tune up, just to see like where they're
36:56
Speaker 1: holding tightness so that they don't over use muscles. So
36:59
Speaker 1: there's different uses, and I think depending on what your
37:01
Speaker 1: objective is, it could be used for maintenance or for like,
37:05
Speaker 1: you know, pain relief definitely.
37:07
Speaker 2: So then one of the last areas that we're going
37:10
Speaker 2: to talk on today is cost and insurance. Obviously everyone's
37:13
Speaker 2: always trying to keep a budget or their finances in mind.
37:17
Speaker 2: Do you have a range perhaps of what an acupuncture
37:21
Speaker 2: treatment may cost someone, and to your knowledge, if different
37:25
Speaker 2: acupunctures take insurance.
37:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, acupuncture is covered by a lot of
37:30
Speaker 1: insurance plans. Some acupunctures are in network, so you might
37:34
Speaker 1: have acupuncture coverage that covers treatment where you just pay
37:37
Speaker 1: a copay kind of like you're going to the doctor.
37:39
Speaker 1: And then there's also out of network acupuncturists that you know,
37:43
Speaker 1: you might still have insurance coverage for if you have
37:45
Speaker 1: acupuncture out of network acupuncture round of it. So it
37:48
Speaker 1: really depends on the plan and the company, but it's
37:51
Speaker 1: it's definitely becoming more covered by insurance companies. I think
37:54
Speaker 1: the issue is, like in a lot of other professions,
37:56
Speaker 1: being in network often means you have to see more
37:58
Speaker 1: patients per hour because the reimbursement for practitioners is quite
38:02
Speaker 1: low if you're in network. So it's just like in
38:04
Speaker 1: physical therapy where if you go to like an in
38:07
Speaker 1: network place, you know they're just that you have to
38:09
Speaker 1: see more patients per hour. So like my practice is
38:11
Speaker 1: out of network because especially I'm doing a lot of
38:13
Speaker 1: like hands on and like physical like muscle release work,
38:17
Speaker 1: it just requires more time. I can't do that treatment
38:19
Speaker 1: in ten minutes. I need like forty five minutes to
38:21
Speaker 1: an hour with somebody generally to do that kind of work.
38:24
Speaker 1: So I have to be out of network because otherwise
38:26
Speaker 1: I can't see enough patients to pay the rent, especially
38:29
Speaker 1: New York, and I think depending on what city you're in, right,
38:32
Speaker 1: it can be even out of network or out of
38:34
Speaker 1: pocket can be cheaper. Obviously, a place like New York
38:37
Speaker 1: or LA or Chicago tends to be more expensive because
38:40
Speaker 1: rent is higher and operating a business is more expensive.
38:43
Speaker 1: But you know, i'd say the range, you know, and
38:44
Speaker 1: there's different types. There's like community acupuncture clinics where there's
38:47
Speaker 1: a room and a bunch of tables and you get
38:49
Speaker 1: a quick treatment and you rest, and that can be
38:51
Speaker 1: you know, like forty to eighty dollars out of out
38:54
Speaker 1: of pockets, probably looking at like one hundred to four hundred.
38:58
Speaker 1: It depends on what they're doing, right. We touched on
39:00
Speaker 1: different styles. There's also like cupping can be part of
39:03
Speaker 1: acupuncture guasha, which is like grassen or scraping technique. There's
39:08
Speaker 1: electro acupuncture that some practitioners use. Even like dietary nutritional
39:12
Speaker 1: advice can fall in the acupuncture realm as well.
39:15
Speaker 2: That's a really interesting topic as well, using acupuncture for
39:19
Speaker 2: dietary issues.
39:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, that's another common use is for digestive issues,
39:24
Speaker 1: and you know a lot of them again coming back
39:26
Speaker 1: to like stress, a lot of digestive issues have like
39:29
Speaker 1: a stress related component. Especially things like IBS. There's like
39:32
Speaker 1: a link to chronic or acute stress. And you know
39:36
Speaker 1: acupuncture is great in twofold because you know some of
39:40
Speaker 1: the treatment will touch on other aspects of Chinese medicine,
39:43
Speaker 1: because a big thing with Chinese medicine and nutrition is
39:46
Speaker 1: about like the concept of yin and yong, like eating
39:50
Speaker 1: eating in balance. Right, so like in the winter you
39:52
Speaker 1: eat certain types of food, you eat more warming and
39:55
Speaker 1: like aromatic foods because that offsets like the cold that's outside,
39:59
Speaker 1: Whereas in summer you would eat more cold like watermelon
40:02
Speaker 1: and mint and those types of cooling types of foods
40:05
Speaker 1: because that offsets like the heat outside. So nutrition and
40:08
Speaker 1: even Chinese mess and generally it's all about like being
40:10
Speaker 1: in harmony with nature and kind of like doing the opposite.
40:13
Speaker 1: Like if you feel cold, like do something warm. If
40:16
Speaker 1: you feel hot, do something cold. And it's really simple,
40:18
Speaker 1: but it extends to so many metaphors.
40:21
Speaker 2: For someone who is hesitant on acupuncture, you right now
40:25
Speaker 2: have an opportunity to encourage them to fit a try.
40:29
Speaker 1: What is it that you tell them? You know, I
40:32
Speaker 1: would say to give it a chance. And like most practitioners,
40:35
Speaker 1: if you're hesitant at least me personally, I will speak
40:37
Speaker 1: to someone beforehand before they come in, and like you know,
40:40
Speaker 1: always when you get to a treatment, like if you're
40:42
Speaker 1: really that's scared or uncomfortable, like you don't have to
40:44
Speaker 1: do the treatment, I would say that it's worth a shot,
40:47
Speaker 1: and the needles don't really hurt that much. And I
40:50
Speaker 1: think often it's easiest when you have a recommendation from
40:53
Speaker 1: a friend or someone you trust, because it can be
40:55
Speaker 1: a little scary, and if you know someone personally that's benefited,
40:58
Speaker 1: I think that can make people more comfortable.
41:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, And like I said, when I
41:02
Speaker 2: started coming here, it was because you were referred to
41:05
Speaker 2: me by multiple people that I knew, And I do
41:07
Speaker 2: think that word of mouth can go a really long way.
41:11
Speaker 2: And know that, as we talked about earlier, there are
41:14
Speaker 2: different styles of acupuncture, so just because you've tried one
41:18
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that another one can't benefit you if the
41:21
Speaker 2: first one just didn't feel necessarily right for you and
41:24
Speaker 2: your body. And also knowing that you can try one
41:28
Speaker 2: type of acupuncture with an acupuncturist and try the exact
41:31
Speaker 2: same type of acupuncture with a different acupuncturist and it
41:34
Speaker 2: could be like a mental thing as to why the
41:36
Speaker 2: second time it might work versus the first time that
41:38
Speaker 2: you felt as though it didn't.
41:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's a really important point because there is
41:42
Speaker 1: the idea of the therapeutic relationship, like you know in therapy,
41:44
Speaker 1: for instance, your relationship with your therapist or your relationship
41:48
Speaker 1: with your doctor. They've done a lot of research on that,
41:50
Speaker 1: if you like believe someone's going to help you, you're
41:52
Speaker 1: more likely to get better. And you know, some of
41:55
Speaker 1: that sounds like a placebo, but there is like some
41:57
Speaker 1: trust built into treatment and I think think especially getting acupuncture,
42:01
Speaker 1: if you're able to be a little more relaxed during
42:03
Speaker 1: the treatment, it, you know, it feels a lot more
42:05
Speaker 1: pleasant than if you're really tense and uncomfortable the whole time.
42:08
Speaker 1: So that is an important thing to feel comfortable with
42:10
Speaker 1: the person that you're working with.
42:12
Speaker 2: Any final words of wisdom, Teddy.
42:15
Speaker 1: You know, I mean I would say that acupuncture changed
42:17
Speaker 1: my life. It can change yours too, And really there's
42:20
Speaker 1: no downside to trying it right. It's not a medication,
42:23
Speaker 1: it's not a surgery. That's what I love so much
42:24
Speaker 1: about acupuncture is that there's really no downside to it,
42:28
Speaker 1: and so I would recommend you try it if you're
42:30
Speaker 1: on the fence, and you know, more and more people
42:32
Speaker 1: are trying it. A lot of athletes have tried it.
42:35
Speaker 1: Like just in the past year, I've seen like the
42:37
Speaker 1: Rock post about and David Beckham and you know a
42:40
Speaker 1: lot of NFL teams. It's really popular with a lot
42:42
Speaker 1: of other sports, Soccer, basketball, it's just becoming a lot
42:45
Speaker 1: more common, and especially like cupping has become really popular.
42:49
Speaker 1: You saw with like Michael Phelps in the Olympics a
42:51
Speaker 1: while ago, and then every once in a while you'll
42:53
Speaker 1: watch like a sports game basketball because they have like
42:55
Speaker 1: the sleeveless shirt and you say, oh, they got cupping.
42:57
Speaker 1: That's really great. So you know there are other aspects
42:59
Speaker 1: to you. If you're free of needles. Their acupuncture is
43:01
Speaker 1: like I do cupping. I do it. You know, if
43:03
Speaker 1: someone's really that scared, I'm like, Okay, we don't have
43:05
Speaker 1: to use a needle. We could do cupping, and you know,
43:07
Speaker 1: get you used to the you know some sensation in
43:10
Speaker 1: those areas.
43:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like we could talk forever, but I'm
43:13
Speaker 2: going to bring us to a close. Teddy, how do
43:15
Speaker 2: the hurdlers follow along? With you. How do they keep
43:18
Speaker 2: up with you? Give us your details.
43:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're located on the Upper West Side in Manhattan.
43:24
Speaker 1: We are also on Instagram Morningside Acupuncture NYC and you
43:29
Speaker 1: can also visit us on our website Morningside ACUPUNCTURENYC dot com.
43:34
Speaker 2: Perfect And we're going to put a little bit in
43:37
Speaker 2: the show notes where you guys can click and if
43:38
Speaker 2: you're interested in coming up to Morningside, we're going to
43:41
Speaker 2: give you one hundred dollars off your visit. So click
43:44
Speaker 2: on over the show notes check that out come see
43:47
Speaker 2: my guy Teddy. You know how to find me. I'm
43:48
Speaker 2: over at Emily Body at Hurdle Podcast another Hurdle Conquered.
43:53
Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time in my