Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / Mason Coppi | Sub-Ultra Standout on the Trails & the Tarmac

Transcript

Mason Coppi | Sub-Ultra Standout on the Trails & the Tarmac · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, guys?
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I am your host, james Lauriello.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Today we've got such a special episode.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: None other than sub-ultra superstar in the making, mr Mason Copey, joins us on the podcast.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: What a fun episode.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: It was fresh off of his dub at this past weekend's Cirque Series Alta.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Really happy to get this one to you super fast so you guys can learn a little bit more about Mason, about his journey, um, about some of his just insane results that he's had over the last few years and, I think, more importantly, just like his, his optimism and just stance that he takes in his approach to racing.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Um, I think it's a serious breath of fresh air.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Um, I think it's really fun and it's exciting and it just just left me just really really excited to just embrace racing and just embrace the sport.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you guys are going to really like this one.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: This is a personal favorite conversation of mine.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: His enthusiasm, it just speaks volumes and we get a little bit of a breakdown into some of his training, some of his race day diet.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: We talk about everything.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Just super fun, super fun conversation.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, so I'm not gonna hold us up without further ado.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Guys, hope you enjoy this one, mr Mason Coppy.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, I am interrupting this podcast because I've got something really fun and really special to share with everyone.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Ultimate Direction, one of my running sponsors, was kind enough to pass along a promo code to the listeners of the podcast.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: It's going to be 25% off site wide.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: If you guys are interested in some new gear, a new pack, maybe a new handheld, some apparel, whatever, ultimate Direction is going to provide the hookup.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: If you guys hop on the Ultimate Direction site and type in the code steep stuff pod, that's S-T-E-E-P-S-T-U-F-F-P-O-D, at your checkout, you guys are going to get 25% off.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: This is only for now, which is I'm recording this on August, the first week in August, through September.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: So it's just a one month only thing.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: They were kind enough to provide it, hooking me up as an athlete.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: So I want to be able to get you guys the hookup for ultimate direction.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that's going to be code steep stuff pod for 25% off.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: How are you feeling after today?
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Are you a little sore?
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I'm, I'm actually a little bit sore.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: It wasn't as sore when I ran Brighton.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I'm actually feeling pretty good.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Uh, surprisingly, I mean we'll, we'll see what I'm feeling like tomorrow, um, tomorrow morning or the day after, but actually feeling really good coming off of that.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Nice dude yeah.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: What a great race, what a great course, oh my gosh, absolutely beautiful.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I like I did snowbird, um, a few weeks ago and I was planning on doing a bunch of different races this season, um, but after doing snowbird it's like I got to do the rest of the Cirque series.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: It was so much fun.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Just absolutely gorgeous Today.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Amazing the wildflowers, awesome, yeah.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: The views from the ridge, from the summit just absolutely gorgeous.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: I actually kept on having to remind myself to look at where my feet were.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was that like one section on the Baldy Descent right when you hit like the more straight single track, yeah the flowers kind of like overgrew.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and I was like doing one of these like just like yeah, it was absolutely beautiful oh my gosh, absolutely gorgeous.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all the different colors out there, yeah, so amazing course I should probably introduce you.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: We've been recording, oh okay mason, is it copy right?
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: uh, it's mason.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Copi, copi, okay all right.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, thanks so much for coming on the pod, yeah thanks for having me.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I'm stoked appreciate it.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this worked out perfect.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I uh, we're staying at the start line just like chatting it up and I was like, oh man, I recognize you, I was like you're in a like and you know it's funny you were wearing like a swap kit.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Cause I you know.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I've been following David Roche, who I think is going to set the course record right now.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Oh really.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I haven't checked in a while I've been busy, let's go, he's a freak man.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Oh he is.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: He's so fast.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I actually got to race him for the first time last year, did you really?
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: And I was going in.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, I got to put it to David.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: So I took it out super hot and I led for a good mile and then he just blew by me Like I was nothing, and the worst thing about it is he's so nice when he does it too.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: He's like yeah, you're doing great, mason, have a great race.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I'm like.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Hey David, oh dude, I yeah.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: No, it's.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: My coaches are Eli and Tabor, and so it's, it's like it's not even close to similar, like if I ever raised them, there's just no chance.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: There's some of the best athletes that's so cool that they coach you.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: They're wonderful people, good people, yeah man.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, what's your?
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: So?
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: What's your story, man?
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Like, where are you from?
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Like, how'd you get into running?
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: What's the background?
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: So I've lived in a few different places now.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I'm originally from Southern California, like Southern, so grew up at the beach and I basically started running right around middle school.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: I started doing it because it was one of the only things I could beat my older brother at and my parents ran.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: So I started hopping in runs with like my mom and just doing that and just I really started to like it.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: It was just like very fun, of course, like those first initial runs terrible, awful, but like once I started like working at it, it just became incredibly fun and so I started running right around eighth grade and then in high school.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: The high school I went to was actually fairly competitive on a national level, so it was Dana Hills High School and so it was a very competitive program.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: And my best friend all throughout high school was super fast, like he used to crush me in freshman year and I slowly worked up my way.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I can ever say I confidently beat him, but we were neck and neck there, um at the at the end and, yeah, that just again fueled my passion for the sport even more.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I was having a lot of fun with it.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: We ended up getting like third my senior year um at Nike nationals, so that was really awesome.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Um, I ran well enough to get a college scholarship, uh.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: So I ended up going and running for Furman university out in South Carolina, uh, which is a small D one school, um, and there again, just like uh it was.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: It was a complicated relationship actually with running at Furman.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: So I overall I really enjoyed my experience.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: I met some amazing people there.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Some of my best friends actually my best friend from high school actually followed me there.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: And so we ran together there and that was a lot of fun.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Met my partner there, and that was awesome.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Met my partner there, and that was awesome.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: But a lot of people have the NCAA D1 story.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very similar.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: It's shaky yeah exactly.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: You go in and you're very excited.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: You're a very determined individual and things don't always go out the way that you envisioned and your relationship with running really does get tested.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: And I think towards the end of my college experience my relationship with running was getting tested.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: I loved it, it was one of my favorite things in the world, but it was starting to get more of like a toxic relationship, more than anything.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Like I would have a good race, I'd get really excited.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Then I'd have a bad race and feel terrible about myself and just like spiral.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: And part of that was fueled by my own just kind of personal thoughts and personal self-worth that I assigned to myself.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: But part of that was also just a part of the NCAA system and partially also just the program that I was in.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: What did you?
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: run in college.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Events.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I did cross country, I did the 5K and the 10K and then sometimes jumping into the shorter stuff.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: And your 5K was the 13 and change, sometimes jumping into the shorter stuff.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: And your 5k was the 13 and change.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Uh, 1357.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, um, but yeah, by the end I was getting pretty close to burnt out and so I I knew I needed a reset and that's kind of.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: When I came across David's stuff, I read his book.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Um, actually I was one of the the COVID year um people, so it was actually when I went back home for COVID I read his book David Roach.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, david Roach's book.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I didn't even know he had a book.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Happy Runner, him and Megan wrote the book and it just completely changed my outlook on running.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't immediate, like it's been a process and, to be honest, it still is a process to keep a healthy mindset with running.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: But just shifting the focus of running being something that determined my self-worth, um, and something that was only about performance, to something that could be fun and just could be something that I do for play and just for enjoyment I think that mattered all the world to me and is why I'm still running to this day.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: And basically, I reached out to David while I was finishing up school and kind of asked him if he'd be willing to work with me and we ended up starting a relationship, working together basically as soon as I got out.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: And I think part of my growth process also was like, okay, I need to take a break from track, I need to take a break from like that sort of thing, and I shifted to trail running.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Then, um, just being like, okay, this is what sounds exciting to me, this is what sounds fun to me.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Um, that's crazy.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, dude, so like you're one of the like, almost, it was almost like kind of this, like trail team relationship before the trail team, even kind of came about where he kind of you know you're leaving college and then getting into the trails Cause they, they excite you.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Did you have any like goals or aspirations of like trying to run professionally on the track at all or no?
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: you kind of put that aside and you're like no, you kind of put that aside and you're like, no, this gets me excited.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'd say, when I first came in to college, absolutely I wanted to run professionally on the track.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: That was my goal.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: That's what I came there to do.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: I wanted to, by the end, be a professional athlete on the track.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: But afterwards I decided, no, I want to do trails.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And even once, even in high school, I had heard about trail running and I that was always cool to me and I did a lot of my runs on trails and I always enjoyed it, but never seemed like a real option.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Um, but when I was like getting towards the end of like, uh, my like time at college, I started seeing people like Grayson Murphy like just absolutely crushing it on the trail and like seeing that like clicked in my mind of being like wait, this, this is something I can do right now.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: I don't have to wait, I can just go do it.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Um, and so if, once I graduated college, that is immediately what I wanted to do?
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: That's so interesting.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: And you know the other thing too with Grayson, with, like Anna Gibson, with so many of these athletes, it's like they're not a one trick pony, like they can do it all.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: So, it's interesting to see, like I don't know this new more like hybridized athlete and, like you know, especially like dude.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Look at Ana's season.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, oh yeah, she's a monster.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: She is so fast and that's I'm really excited for that.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I think we're in a really cool time where I'm definitely not like the first athlete to like go track to trails.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Again, there's a lot of people who inspired me to do so, but it was still sort of a rare thing, but nowadays we're seeing that just happen a lot more frequently.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can see it like the, the trail scene is getting so much more competitive, even from when I just like first started trail running.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's awesome to see like just people are running so fast these days it's, and you know, dude, like and it's, it's crazy because the nutrition is getting better.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're seeing the training getting better, like the periodization and everything, and like the coaching is getting better.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Like, oh yeah, we're seeing the training getting better, like the periodization and everything, and like the coaching is getting better.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Like, I think our sport I don't know there's been a lot of talk about and this is for a different conversation with Olympics and stuff like that but it's interesting to see just the trajectory our sport is on and in a short period of time, like I came into the sport, probably similar to you around 2020.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Um and dude, like I used to feel like I'm a relatively fast kid, like I could show up at a race any like race in Colorado other than like a Kendall mountain run or something like that and have a good good race.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Um, and now, like dude, you gotta like look at.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Let me look at today.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Today was these kids are like, so these young whippersnappers are so fast, dude.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm even feeling that like again, like not to say that I'm I'm older, like I'm still a young athlete, but like at snowbird, for example, yeah, just like the, the people who showed up to there, just crazy, like that was one of my better, better races and I I came in fourth and I was super happy with that.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: I was was super stoked with that.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: But just thinking about, like the, the speeds at which I was running and just being like wow is it's just crazy that I got blown out like that much.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I'll give you a good laugh.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I was on the.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever ever run on the incline, so I was on the incline, I was pushing man.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I was like I think I ran like 23, 24 minutes on the incline.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I was doing a workout before this and dude some like high school or he was a college kid from.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: It was two college kids from Kansas, one run for K-State and I think the other one ran for the University of Kansas.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: And they were here like on their spring break and they're like pushing me and I'm like, and they're like flatlanders.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: So we get to the top, we start chatting and I'm like, cause they have the typical build and look and they're wearing the shirts, and I'm like you guys must run cross country or something like that.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: And I was like do you guys like look at, like, what do you think of trail running?
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I was like do you look at us as like dinosaurs, Like what people do, like when they trails, and we're doing stuff?
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: So it's just interesting to see as the sport is evolving and growing.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: You're seeing, you know, it's really just come to the forefront where so many more people are just entering the sport.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Absolutely.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: It's like an option now.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Absolutely.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: And like again all those like I guess I won't say all I I guess I won't say all I'll say a lot of NCAA runners.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: They really enjoy being on trails.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, who wouldn't Like?
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Versus running around a rubber track, versus being on the course that we were at today at Alta, Just like.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course I want to be doing that.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: If that is an option and if there is competition and there is sponsorship opportunity, yeah, people are going to just go and do that that's.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: The other thing, too, is like the money has come to the sport, like you're seeing nike pick up a bunch of guys, like they got christian, they're making moves with liam and stuff like that like there's a lot of I'm glad they got christian like christian's he's, I mean, I feel like he might.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Actually, I think he's the future of the sport in a lot of ways.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: And, like I don't know, you raced him a lot closer than I did, so Christian's another great example of that hybrid athlete you know, like his.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: His marathon time impeccable, like super fast.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: He made the U S team in cross country like just the speed that he has just on any discipline Awesome, I love seeing him race.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I love seeing him run.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get back to you.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, so one of the things that I I'm sorry I go on these tangents- because I know I know you're, I know like, and especially cause I've I've listened to some other.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I listened recently to that other podcast you were on and the stoke is just really high for sub ultra, which is my.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Stoke is high for sub ultra Cause I think that this is like I don't know, I love the golden trail series, loving the Cirque series, I don't know.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Just all of these different races are just so incredible and like I don't know if I can like communicate anything to not just the audience but just anybody entering the sport.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Like sub ultra is just a great entry point and you don't have to run a hundred miles to have an insane like experience.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: And that is one thing that I think trail running sometimes struggles with, and I'm a coach and I see some of my athletes sometimes struggling with it and I don't have anything wrong, like against ultra running.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: I think ultra running is awesome and I think people should do it, but that's not all.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Ultra running is awesome and I think people should do it, um, but that's not all.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Trail running is like there's these epic adventures that you can go on that are on the shorter side of things and they're a lot of fun and it doesn't make you any less of a trail runner to do those.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Um, it's just a different discipline.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: It's like saying, like, okay, you're not a runner if you run the 800 meter versus if you run like the 5k.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: No, it's just a different discipline and it takes a different skill set and both are fun, both are awesome and, yeah, I, I think we are getting to the point where we're starting to respect, like, the sub ultra running a little bit more.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Um, and I think it is due to these, these series um, the golden trail series Awesome.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Um, on Cirque series Awesome.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Also.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Like in the Northeast where, um, I was living for a bit, there's some great events out there by uh, put on by 603 endurance, um oh yeah absolutely the loon mountain race.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: All their events out there Super awesome and they do a great job with um mountain running and so it's starting to get traction.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I definitely, and I think it's only going to grow.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: I think, like I said and like we talked about, I think it's one because it's the best entry point or the easiest entry point.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: I mean look at today, dude, like I mean, I don't know, like maybe a hundred of the people today were there to be competitive in some way, shape or form.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I think the rest of them were there just to just have a good time and it's just a fun thing to do in the mountains.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, it's different.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I find, like the wasatch a little bit different than colorado.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Um, you live in Colorado now too, right?
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I moved out to Denver in May, okay.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: So and I feel like I don't know, I think Salt Lake city versus Denver you can kind of either draw parallels or see like what's different.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: I'm in Colorado Springs and I don't know.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: I just like noticed that I don't know if it's the fact that the Wasatch is just so close to the metropolitan area, but, like dude, I left for the race today like eight o'clock and every trailhead was full, every trailer's full, and I saw runners everywhere running up and down the canyon.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: I was like dude.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, the Springs is a competitive place, but I was like I never see this Benny Bronner's.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: It's crazy.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: It has been really cool for me.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Moving further out west again I was living in Syracuse, New York, and East Coast trail running is amazing.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, People are super fiery about it, but it's very niche.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think it has a lot of broad appeal for the general population there.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: The people who do it amazing, awesome athletes and very fiery, like, very like, tight knit community which is one of the nice things about it, but it is cool being out here and just seeing that this is just what everyone does.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: This is a lifestyle.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: It's a lifestyle.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: It's normal.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Like people don't look at me funny if I run by in short shorts.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Like it is nice feeling like you're a part of this.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Like bigger, broader community.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: It's funny my brother-in-law lives in like the Poughkeepsie, like Highland area.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, just by breakneck.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and those trails are mad, technical, really fun to train on, oh yeah, but I give him shit all the time.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I'm like dude, come race out here and we'll let you see what it's all about, you know.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, although I will say that was my thought.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Growing up in California is.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I grew up on California trails, so dirt roads.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, love California trails, california butter right.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, they're so much fun, they're so fun to run on.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: But I remember I grew up on those and I had a lot of fun running on them and I got used to seeing certain amount of like mile times and I remember seeing like times out east and being like 12 minute mile.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I can do that in my sleep.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I would never run that slow.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Next thing I know I'm running breakneck and getting passed by by everyone and it is so technical it's so technical it's.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: It's a different skill and people ask me about that Is East Coast Trail running or West Coast Trail running harder?
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: And I think they're both hard, like if you're pushing yourself all out.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: You can make anything hard.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I mean shoot.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: I used to make track 5Ks hard, I mean, and it's like the flattest, easiest surface to run on.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: You can make anything hard.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Would you say being out there because you lived I mean I checked your ultra sign up and I saw a lot of your results.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I mean you've done, you've had some amazing results out there and we'll get into a few of those but would you say that made your?
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Would you say you gained like technical skills being out there, like spending a considerable amount of time.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I do think that and it's hard to say, cause I also came out there, Um, and that's when I really started trail running Like that's where I started trail running, and so it could have been that out of East I developed those skills.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: But I do think like it really forced me to focus on that because I started going to races and I couldn't lean on my fitness, Like I couldn't just muscle through things and just try to hammer from the gun.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I needed to have that skill in order to be successful out there.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: So I did start working on it a lot more once I was out there, but it was kind of hard because Syracuse itself, where I was living, didn't have a lot of technical options.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, there were the Adirondacks, but I had to drive really far out to get to those and Breakneck is super far, so really it was kind of like at times training in the Midwest.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: It's like rail trails and stuff like that A lot of rail trails and stuff like that, a lot of gravel roads.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: So I had to get creative.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: There was one park where we had some super technical rocky stuff but like one lap around was like a mile.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: So I just do 12 mile like runs out there, just doing laps, just practicing that, practicing that, practicing that dear god, it's gonna be boring.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: It was boring, but like it was one of the best ways to practice it.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And, thinking back on it again, I'm a coach, so I have the coach's mind of constantly thinking of like oh, is this a cool training idea?
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: And I actually think it was really, really helpful because I was running the same thing over and over again, so it wasn't coming as a surprise to me.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: So I could really hone the skill and just focus on the movements and I think that helped me over time.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Another thing that I had to do out there is we didn't have a lot of vert, so I used to do just repeats up this one, um, one hill is, uh, tinker Falls, so we call them Tinker repeats, and it was about 0.4 miles up, um, and we'd gained about 400 feet and that was our biggest hill and so I would just run up and down that every Sunday, uh, just as many times as I I could, so I'd get like 14 miles out there, um, just going up and down, up and down, which is brutal, brutal, um, but that was one of my only options, and so it is cool though, like you can figure out ways to train even if, like you don't have access to giant mountains, I think you still can like yeah yeah, train for these mountain races absolutely great.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: And there's some great mountain races out there, like we said.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Dude, I've been wanting to do white face now for years.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: It's been been on my list.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: I think I'm actually going to go and do it next year, like I've been playing around with the schedule to see like what would work.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: But like cause, it's always in July and it's like oh, I've got.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: You know, I want to do this.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Or only reason why it isn't the hardest race I've ever done is because I did the breakneck marathon.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: That's fair.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: That's fair I remember actually running white face and being like man.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: At least it isn't breaknecks.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: It's actually funny, though, my partner Emily, that was her first trail race ever.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God, I convinced her to do that race because we were living in Syracuse and that was the US Mountain Champs one year and she had just finished up running in the NCAA at Syracuse and so I was like, oh, we have to do this, I'm doing this race, we're signing you up.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: We got to do it and she was like OK, we have to do this, I'm doing this race, we're signing you up.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: We got to do it and she's like okay, yeah, I like running on trails, it'll be fun Little did?
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: she know it's mountains.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we show up to the race and like I look at it and I'm like, oh no.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: And she's like, what do you mean?
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm like that looks hard.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: And yeah, we ran it and I knew she didn't like technical downhills and we were on this one section and I was running it, I was having a really good day, I was having a lot of fun and I get to this one section where you're going down like a black diamond, like grade hill, and there's just a bunch of slick moss everywhere and I'm running in.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: I'm like, ooh, emily's gonna kill me.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: And sure enough, she didn't like it very much.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Uh, but she has forgiven me.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: So, um, emily, if you're listening to this, thank you.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Sorry about that.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: My wife, do you like it now?
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I mean my wife's learned now we've been together for like almost nine years and but, like she knows now, like every time I sit I'm like, oh, let's go do Blodger peak in the Springs.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Well, let's do this.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: She goes.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: This is a mountain, Is it steep?
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Like sometimes I'll lie a little bit and be like you know, it's, it's not that bad, it's it's fine.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she like never goes.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, is doing it this year.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: I will be watching because those are not me dude.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: I'll see you at the start line.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: We're doing a live podcast from the start.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, sweet, sweet, oh.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: That'll be so much fun.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna have.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Uh, I think it's like sponsored by the north face.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: We'll have like zach miller on a bunch of people.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: It'll be okay, very cool.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll definitely stop by and say hello.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man for sure, for sure, dude.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: So I'm talking about the us mountain running champs.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: So you basically started the sport 2020 ish.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Us mountain running champs was what 2021, 22.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: And then you had an amazing race and you go to thailand on a usa team what was that like?
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Being so new to the sport and already being on team usa yeah.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: So it was kind of weird because that was like one of my long-term goals.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: That's always something that I want to do, and I made that a goal very early on, and so it's this big dream event.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Well, right around the time when I figured out I got on the team, I got injured, and so I got this weird nagging ankle injury where I couldn't run at all and I knew that Worlds was in a month and I couldn't run a single step, and so I was freaking out about that, obviously, and all I could do was bike pretty much, and I didn't really have a nice bike at the time.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: I had a bike from the 80s that was rusty and I had down tube shifters and it kept falling apart on me.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: You're making lemonade out of this, yeah, and then I had to, like I would always have to call my girlfriend like pick me up.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: I'm like Emily, it happened again and so I had this fairytale thing happening and I just wasn't.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: I wasn't prepared for it.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I wasn't ready, and David was great through all of it.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: He was like, you know what you?
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: You can get a lot of fitness on the bike, and that's true.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: And so I just really committed myself to just biking and just really working on that.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: And one of my strengths is I am very optimistic.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: And so I had convinced myself.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: I'm like I had just seen Grayson Murphy run really well off of biking training at a mountain race and I was like, okay, we're gonna do this Can be done and it can be done.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: And I had built up this giant narrative in my head of like, okay, I'm going to get to this.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Like trail race, that really was a good course for me.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Like it started off with a mile flat and ended on a mile flat, which, because of my background, I do well at that and all the trails looked fairly smooth.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: And so I'm like, okay, sweet, this is one of my strengths, I can do this.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And I had built this all up in my head and I get there and I just got my butt kicked Like I struggled so much in that race from the gun.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I just felt absolutely out of my element and like on the downhills, my, my quads weren't there, um, which makes sense.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: I was on the bike.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: I was lucky enough that I was healthy like miraculously, so I actually think that the like 48-hour like travel actually made everything calm down, because I just had to sit still for like two days on the planes and so that knocked out the injury.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: But it just wasn't that fairytale narrative that I'd built up in my head.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: And after the race I was disappointed in my finish.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: I was really hoping that running for the US team would make me feel better about myself or feel more accomplished or feel something, but again I didn't have the race that I wanted and I still felt the same.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: I still didn't feel like I was a more validated runner.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I was a more legit runner after that, and so that was really hard because it didn't live up to expectations.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: And again I had to learn the lesson again that I'm just doing this for fun, I'm just doing this for a good time, and I need to keep that at the forefront and keep reminding myself of that.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: So it was a bittersweet experience, I would say.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Well, we tell ourselves these stories too.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: It's, like you know, even like today's race, like I had an idea of in my head, like where I wanted to finish, and I didn't like finish exactly where I wanted to finish.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: But that's okay.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Go back to the drawing board.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: You work hard.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: I'll be at Targi next week.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Are you going there too?
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I am going to Targi.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: See you there, bro.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: And hopefully Targi is a better result.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Let's see what happens.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: So it's I mean, it's a little bit different where, like for a circ series race or something like that, you get do-overs it's a little bit different with team usa.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Do-overs might not come around, you know ever so, but you're so young so it doesn't even matter.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it and that's the interesting thing with, like the stories we we tell ourselves, and I think the thing and this might sound a little sappy, but I think the thing that really helped me get through like the, the world championships, is being like okay, this isn't my story, my story is still ongoing, like it's still this was this didn't feel fulfilling and like a neat little bow on things, because we're in the middle of the story right now and this part is just adding to it and like for you, like you know, like you might not have, like you had this story in your head, but the story that you had today, I'm sure it was still amazingly epic.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Dude, I put together a great race.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I was like yeah, so my goal was to run around like 108, to like somewhere, 108 to 110.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: And I was like five minutes off that, but dude still had a great result, still happy.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: So I had COVID two and a half weeks.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: What was it?
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Almost three weeks ago, oh and a half weeks.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: What was it almost three weeks ago?
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Oh geez, and I missed two weeks of training.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was able to put like eli and tabor and I were able to, like some, put some crazy shit together in like a week and a half and like I mean, yeah, I had the fitness, but I did not have the downhill legs, I think it's I was able to like put together my uphill was really solid.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just couldn't put the downhill together.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: But we'll see what happens next week exactly and like this is just going to be like make that next victory even more sweet.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know a hundred percent, dude, a hundred percent, and I think it's a lot like.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I love your positivity too.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: So many people I know so many people in the sport that are like you know.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I mean very don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're not serious I feel like if you force things, you rob yourself of what the experience on the day will actually unfold to be in a lot of ways yeah, yeah, I think it's different for a lot of people.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Some people really thrive on like the like I got a hammer do or die like I, like I'm, I'm gonna kill people out there, like, uh, whatever, um, I don't do, I don't thrive off of that at all.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Like I'm I have.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I do my best when I take it a little bit less seriously, when I'm just going out there to have fun, when I like dance at the music, at like the starting line, yeah, yeah, um, and thank the race volunteers and wave to people and like throw up airplane arms and like do all that and I I do see how some people might take that as, oh, he's not serious or he doesn't care about that.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: No, that's, that's me.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I mean you won today.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: You're obviously serious yeah.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: That's me in my I'm going to crush it element.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: If you see me racing with a serious face on, to crush it element.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: If you see me racing with a serious face on, it's not going well, it is not.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: It's not a good sign.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: But if I'm smiling and I'm waving at you, that means you know.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: I'm locked in and ready to do well.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: You took it out.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: How many?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: How do?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: How would you say you took it out today.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: I thought it was pretty hot.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I felt like I was like holding on for dear life.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: But what I mean?
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: How did that help Like?
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: How did the whole race feel for you?
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt really good Um.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: So, uh, one of the things I've been experimenting more with is, uh, running and racing based off of heart rate and just kind of getting better at clicking into threshold.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: And I don't recommend this for everyone, just so everyone knows because it can take some of the fun out of it for some people.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: But for me it helps because I have a tendency to take things out too hard.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: So my goal of this race was really to just plug into an effort that I knew that I could hold, and that's exactly what I did.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Um, I just went out and immediately kind of plugged into what I felt was a sustainable threshold effort, um, and just figured I just stay at that and see what other people did around me.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Love it, did you?
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I wasn't, couldn't see, you didn't watch it.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: What was um?
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Were you challenged at all or were you totally alone?
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Um, so I think I I didn't actually check behind me Um, but I think it was Talon.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Um was with me for a mile, uh, or maybe two miles.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: It is kind of hard to tell you know, like it's always hard to reflect that I don't like to look over my shoulder.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, like it's always hard to reflect back on the race, I don't like to look over my shoulder.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I hate that feeling.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: But after that I kind of broke away and I think Talon was saying he wasn't feeling great today, but I kind of broke away and at that point I was like, okay, you know, I'm feeling very within myself, I should just keep at this and I'm very comfortable running by myself.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Um, like I said, I have the tendency to hammer it from the gun, um, and take things out really hard.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: So I have found myself um alone before in races and so, yeah, I just kind of found myself on my own and just kind of clicked into an effort.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: That felt good.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Nice dude.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: What did?
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: What did you think of that Baldy descent?
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: That was tough, dude.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: That was pretty steep, it was very steep.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: I got to it and I felt like I was tiptoeing down it and I was getting really nervous at that point because I'm like, oh, I had this really nice lead.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: I'm going to lose it all right now because I am walking down this thing and there are people out there, like all the spectators amazing at this.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: It's such a fun event.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people on the switchbacks.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and those people there were like you're crushing it, you're absolutely flying.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: And.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: I'm like, am I?
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of tiptoeing, but thanks for the vote of confidence over there.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Dude, I liked it, so I went and previewed it on Thursday, okay, and just took my time.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Try to like you know, I'm like how fast can I run down?
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: So today I was like rolling people up on it and I was like, all right, Because usually I hate technical decisions.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, I hate it.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: So it was fun.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: And I thought it was actually more comforting Not for like me but for dude I was thinking about like, like people in, like the back of the pack and like middle of the pack, like for someone that's never seen something like that before, like that's going to be nerve wracking.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I was actually so, right before coming over and doing the podcast, I was having a lunch with one of my athletes and we were talking about that and she's done this race before one of my athletes and we were talking about that and she's done this race before.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: But she talks about how every time you get to that section it is a little bit nerve-wracking, but she keeps coming back, she keeps getting better at it, she keeps on like putting in the effort and just like again she mentioned before like she had to like crab, walk a little bit down it and that's great, that's awesome she gets down and then she hits the road and she's flying, and I think one of the things to keep in mind if you are new to the sport is don't feel bad.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, don't get discouraged If that is the point that you are at because it takes time.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: It takes time, it takes practice, and even for me, like I won the race but but I was like scared on that part of the course, Like I was like, okay, this is intense.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Dude the inner voice of my head when I got to cause, now that I had seen it before, I kind of mentally knew, when you start to round Baldy and it's just this like drop off, like here we go and away we go.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, I think it's just important to keep in mind that, like, yeah, this is intimidating and that's okay, but that's kind of part of the reason why we do it.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: That kind of adds to the excitement.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, it's so cool to run up and down a mountain, I mean.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, the adrenaline that you get on that sort of stuff just so much fun.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: And I think the other really cool thing with it is there is this element of flow to it as well, because you're so dialed in to just figuring out where you're going to place your foot.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: And it's almost like Zen in a way, you know, because you're like in this moment and you're focusing on where you're placing your foot.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Like in this moment and you're focusing on where you're placing your foot, that moment is gone.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I'm focusing on where I'm placing my foot next and you just get locked into that.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: And I think that is one of the really cool things about trail running.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I did a real and it's so engaging and I mean, in a race like this I'm not really looking around like kind of like maybe obviously said the wildflowers and yeah kind of notice that a little bit um, but it's just so.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know like the terrain is very engaging you know, until you hit the road, and then you can kind of just, you know, have some fun oh, that's very fun.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I I love that part that's that speaks to the california, my heart that's right rolling fire roads the best, beautiful, best dude.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: What does your training look like then?
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you want to go too in depth, or however you want.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm happy to go into it.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: So we've kind of had to mess around with it, like David and I.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: So David writes all my training.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: But we've kind of figured out what works really well for me is kind of training like a typical track slash road athlete.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Um, I do like really big, like threshold sessions right around one hour effort, or I do 10 K workouts.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I do them on the track if I can, um, and just I've found that just training that speed um in my legs is really helpful.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: I will do hill repeats every now and then, um, but mostly it's on the track for speed work and then on the weekends that's when I go up into the mountains.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: So, um, I'll do um like big, like Saturday and Sunday Um it's like giant aerobic giant aerobic or a lot of that also around like marathon effort or like moderate effort Um, sometimes even throwing in some one hour effort climbs.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: So I'll do like 20 minute hill climbs and stuff like that.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Chase some FKTs why not?
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Um?
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: And that's basically when I fit in most of like my technical training um as well, and another thing that I've been doing recently is adding in a lot more cross training doubles.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: So I've been slowly getting into biking.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't call myself a cyclist.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: I just learned how to use clip in shoes and I'm still terrified.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I still don't know how to do it.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: It's scary man, it freaks me out a lot, but I'm getting used to it.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Um, and I've been getting in a lot more biking doubles, just kind of wherever I can fit them in um, and doubling up um on my runs, and that's been something that I think has been really um productive for me, because I've really been able to pad up my aerobic volume, but just with so much less wear and tear on the on the body compared to running doubles, which is what I had done historically in the past.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Um, I also kind of consider myself in that vein of hybrid athlete.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I guess of I will still do road races, um, and a lot of times in the winter, um, when the trails are closed due to snow.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Um, I basically turned into a road athlete and so I try to balance both, like traditional road and track training, just with a little bit of trail specificity sprinkled in Interesting Okay, so that's my I'm just I partially.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: that was very me being selfish, wanting to learn more.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're good so many things I like to apply for.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: You know, like one of the things I wanted to do this winter is doing, or this upcoming winter, is a 10 K block.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, love to do that and I was like I have so many friends that are like ski mountaineers and they'll just do hours and hours of volume on the skis.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: And I'm like I don't know if that could work for me, especially where I'm at in the Springs.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: I'm like it's a two hour drive to like anything in the mountains.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I'm like maybe just like honing that speed and getting that, you know, just you know, becoming a better 10K runner.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I feel like translates very well.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: I think like I had a huge inflection point of this past.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: This past February I ran my first road marathon and I think that was one of my big inflection points on fitness and figuring out OK, this is the type of training I need to be doing and I think it's fun.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: It it's different from trail running, so it's enough to like, kind of like, add some variety in, and I do think that's still a really good skill.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Again, like we were talking about hybrid athletes absolutely crushing it.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: I think it's a very productive thing to train.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: It's so interesting too, and you're.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: I feel like we're only going to continue to see more and more of them, you know oh yeah, absolutely I.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I think that's really cool.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Another thing like we talked about ease of entry into the sport with the sub ultra races, I think one part of that is for um, sub elite athletes and people new to the sport and offices.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: I also think that's true for track and road runners.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's much more something and I know this is how I felt when I joined trail running it's much more tangible to do a sub ultra race, a distance that you understand, and we're seeing that with these collegiate athletes going straight into more sub ultra running versus going straight into ultra running, ultra running and I think we're we're gonna see some very cool things as we get people recruited from that talent pool.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, 100 dude.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: I mean I didn't like and I spoke about earlier too like you see, andy bringing all these athletes over via the trail team, and I think that's just going to continue to grow.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: They'll add more people and other people get excited about it, and the thing is, too is like you look at, like anna gibson and brooks, you look at a lot of these athletes that like now the money's finally there for people to be able to do both, which is, I think, an attractive thing to do post-collegially oh, yeah, absolutely yeah, and plus like the other thing too is I don't know like we're getting to a point in the sport where I feel like you can you can be like a fast take 10 K runner, but not be a professional and come over to our sport and be a professional?
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely no that is definitely the definitely the case.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Uh, it's not cause I don't want to talk down like the people who are in the sport already.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Cause it is a definitely a unique skill.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: It's just growing.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is growing, and that is the thing where I I would love to see more people who think, okay, well, I can't continue on in professional running because I can't run like a sub 13 5k.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Like what people?
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: are doing these days and it's like there's there's still opportunities, there's still things that you can do and, yeah, I, I think it's really exciting it is.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: It is dude.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit more about your 2024 season.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: So you were at, you ran gopro games.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: You're at broken arrow.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: You've been all over the place, man I saw you did you do a spartan race too?
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: I did do a spartan race.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Let's talk spartan first and we'll, then we'll talk to her.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so um my older brother, um, did a Spartan last year and he crushed it.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: He did awesome.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I coached him, so I think I had a hand in that.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: But he did great, um, and his first one, although he started talking like you know, started being like oh I don't know, mason, I don't know if you can do it, can you throw a 50 pound bag over your back?
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like I think I can.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: I hope I can.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: I've moved like across the country before.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I've lifted boxes, sure, why not?
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: And so I signed up for that, one kind of just for fun, and it was the week before Broken Arrow, which might not have been the best strategy, but I did it with him and I did end up getting in second, which was, which was nice, pretty solid.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was harder than I thought it was going to be.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: Lifting things.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Did you have to like, do the monkey bars and shit like?
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: that yeah yeah, yeah, I could crush monkey bars, monkey bars all day, climbing up ropes, got it?
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Um, the things that got me were like when it pains me to say this, cause, my brother was kind of right, when you have to throw over the sandbag, I could do it, but I was not moving fast.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Or there was this one where you had to hoist a sandbag, like with a pulley system yeah, yeah I remember just like grabbing the rope and trying to pull it, and then the rope just pulled me up and so I'm just dangling there and I'm like, yeah, I'll take the penalty lap.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: So uh, it was an experience did you have to like dude?
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: I did one in florida like years and years and I was like terrified to get in the water because, like there's like Did you have to like dude?
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: I did one in Florida like years and years ago and I was like terrified to get in the water because, like there's like a thing you have to like dive under with oh yeah, I'm like.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get a brain amoeba.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do this.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: I'll take the penalty.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: So I I think I have a weird thing in races of again, I go in to have fun, and part of the reason why I need to focus so much on fun and just like not taking it seriously is, I do kind of click into the race day mindset a little bit of just like I have to do this, I have no choice.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: And so again, like I hate cold water, like if I like if you asked me to jump in that pool, just normally I wouldn't do it, but because I was in a race, I'm like I have to, I have no choice and I just did it without even thinking Um.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of weird what, how the mind clicks in in a race scenario.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Fair enough.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Fair enough.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I still.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: I still don't think I'd.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, it depends on where we're at.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: If we're in Colorado, I'll jump in the water, yeah, there is a little bit different.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: in Florida there's some weird things growing out there.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: It's a little disgusting.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah yeah, so all right.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: So you had a fun and great race there.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: And then you show up at Broken Arrow.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: You ran the 46K this year.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: I did run the 46K.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: What'd you think?
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: It was very hard, it's a hot year man.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: It was a very hot year, so I I would say I did not run it the smartest.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Um, so again, I I have done 50 Ks in marathons before, so I I have experienced it before.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: But most of my background is in sub ultra racing, so I'm used to going out hard and just like, really like ripping yeah and we were.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: We were running up some of the the first um climbs of the day and I had been really careful.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, I'm going to key off of adam peterman because he's amazing athlete, um.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: And so I'm like, okay, we'll key off of him.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: So I was a few spaces back from him and we we got to this one really steep climb and the guy immediately in front of me started hiking and so I'm like I think I can keep on running, I'll just pass by this guy.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Well, next thing I know I had, like I don't know, a 20 meter lead on the entire field and I'm like, wait a second, this isn't where I'm supposed to be.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: And so I was really up towards the front early on.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: I'm like I'm feeling pretty good, um.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: But when we came back around for that uh second lap, my legs just cramped up so bad and I think a lot of that was just going out too hard.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was just a brutal experience because I think I really started cramping up around probably around 18 miles.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: So that's quite a ways to go.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're pretty far.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: And a lot of downhill Dude the ski descents.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I mean I know you like that, but like, oh, I love it, it's so fast.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: But, dude, does that chew your legs up so bad?
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: when I have fresh legs love it, it's one of my favorite things.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: And yeah, so I, I got my butt kicked out there.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Um, so it was a.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: It was an interesting experience.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: Uh, again, I I do want to continue working on my ability to perform at the longer events, but I think after that race and then following that up with Snowbird, uh, after doing Snowbird, I'm like man, this is really what I want to be doing.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Especially having such a great result yeah.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: I had a great result, but also just the feeling of doing it and just being like again, sub ultra or ultra races Awesome, really cool, a really unique style of fun.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: But I was just like man, I really want to do races where I don't have to worry about pacing that much.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: I want to like just really go out there and just send it, and I want to like get to a downhill and not hold myself back.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: I just want to fly, I just want to go for it.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be like oh, how am I going to be feeling in the next like two hours?
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Like no, I just want to race, I just want to have fun and that's kind of.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: I was actually planning on doing a very different race season this year.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: I was actually supposed to be out at the Tomalpa Headlands 50K today.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: But I decided to do that.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: That's a golden.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was the golden trail series one.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: No, the golden trail series one is coming up later, so they're two different events.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Um, but it was the us, uh, 50k championships right, okay um, and so I was planning on doing that, but after running snowbird I went through this whole big thing of like oh, I know that would be a good place to show up.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: I'm like gosh, these events are just so much fun.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: And so I ended up deciding fun and came out here.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Great choice.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, you made yourself extra thousand bucks for coming out.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Not a bad, not a bad gig, dude oh yeah, absolutely so no dude, and I think you, I don't know't know, you know, just because I love the sub ultra decision.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Now, I was just curious because, like I had grant barnett on the other day, um and he had poor dude imploded like he, you know, I think he had like heat exhaustion because it was such a hot day apparently oh geez yeah it was a rough, just rough.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: Go for you guys yeah, no, it was.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: It was very toasty there and I had been living at altitude for a while, but I hadn't really experienced that like intensive a heat, um, at altitude, which is just a very different thing from heat that I've experienced other places, like both.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Back home, um, I lived in the desert, you know, um, and like out East humidity but um, but it's just such a weird, it's just different, you know it just really like dry the dryness down on you, all right.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, for so, just just so curious as a as a as a student of the sport.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: What is your like race day nutrition look like for a race Like Alta?
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Like what do you do in the morning?
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Like do you wake up, eat right away, because I know these like 10 am races are a bit later from like the time most people wake up.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Like what do you do?
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: So I for these like a race like Alta, I still do the same thing I did back in college, which is just peanut butter bagel.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: I've always, basically since college, done like three hours out.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: I I think I read that somewhere and I'm just like that's what I'm sticking to.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, just like I got up at seven today, had some coffee, had a peanut butter bagel, um, and then had some like electrolyte mix and just kind of was sipping on that, got all through that, and then one of the things that I have been doing for these races right around an hour, which is different from what I have been doing in the past, I have been taking more gels around them.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: So I'll take a gel with caffeine about 15 minutes ahead of the, ahead of the start.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: And you have coffee too with that in the morning too.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had coffee already, I can, I can handle a lot of caffeine on race day outside of race I'm going to try that next week.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Well then, I also had.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: So the gel that I had before was a hundred milligram caffeine, and then, at 30 minutes, I had another 100 milligram caffeine gel, just to really power me through 30 minutes in the race 30 minutes into the race and I know that it's not necessarily like needed from a glycogen standpoint to have that many gels, but I perform a lot better and there's a lot of good science on there of just like having something sweet signals to your body that you're in a nutrient rich environment and so you can go all out, and so that's one of the things I've been implementing into these like hour long events, whether that's on like trails or if it's like in a half marathon or a road 10 miler or something like that.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: Dude, thank you for breaking that down.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: I was so like I did something.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: I've been doing something similar, but I didn't do the caffeine gel.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: I think I'm going to switch to the cafe okay, I've been doing the um, what is it?
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: I did a 30 minutes before.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Was the just the normal martin, whatever the 300 or whatever, and I like actually felt pretty good with that it was all right, so yeah, I might switch the caffeine.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: See if I double double that oh yeah, absolutely.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: I will give the caveat of I.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: I think I have one of the stronger stomachs, okay, I think I can eat just about anything while I run.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Um, actually, the reason why I know that is back in, uh, high school I did like a mountain dew mile my same concept as a beer mile, but with cans of Mountain Dew and I didn't throw up once when I was doing that.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: And so I was like if I could have four cans of Mountain Dew after never have drank soda really or caffeine before and like four cans in a mile and like still run like a six minute mile, I could probably do anything I want it's not bad, dude, oh my god.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I uh, I'm still figuring that, I'm still tinkering with, like, what works for me.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: You know, the only reason was I had a terrible experience at brighton.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: I took, I think I had, um, I took too many electrolytes, like I pounded one of those, um, what is it?
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: The uh precision 1500 yeah pounded one before the race and dude I was nauseous from start to finish like nasty nausea so I've been trying to like.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know, yeah, I do feel like it's hard to once you have a bout of nausea, because it's just kind of in your head yeah, you're constantly terrified.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh no, is this gonna come back, or?
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: if you taste anything semi-similar, you're like I don't know the.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: For a long time, um, uh, so I'm not sponsored so I have to like get all my own stuff.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: So for a long time I was using syrup on all my training runs because I'm like it's cheap, I can use it.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: I'll just like carry it around.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: Um, I like basically cleaned out a little hand sanitizer bottle, um, and I just carry around syrup.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I ended up, uh, I ended up getting kind of like again.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: I didn't throw up or anything like that, but I got a little uneasy in the stomach so I haven't been able to do syrup.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: So my, my nutrition costs have gone way up since then, which has been a little brutal, but yeah.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: That's so funny.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, I've heard people use like where did I hear this?
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: at, I don't know where.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: I've heard of people using olive oil.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, they get terribly sick.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: Oh my god Don't do that, but like I don't know, I got to think back to where I heard that from.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Anyway, it will, yeah, not good, no good.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: There's some good like alternative fuels that you can use out there.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: I've had some interesting ones from athletes that I've worked with.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: One of the ones that I get a lot is like fig bars and I like I ask them to like, oh, try to hit 90 grams of carbs per hour, like following the research there, and they're like, I tried to do 90 grams of fig bar an hour.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: I felt terrible.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: I'm like brick in your stomach.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: That's just pure fiber.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: What are you doing?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: They're like I fiber's good for you.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: I'm like not in this context, not in this context.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: That's terrible.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: Oh man dude.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: So what?
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Um, not to pivot too hard.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: But what do you got planned for the rest of your season besides the Grand Targhee?
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so after Grand Targhee I will be doing A-Basin.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I'll be going out to that one.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Also planning on going out to the Headlands 27K part of the Golden Trail series, so I'll be going out to that.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: I'm still debating whether or not I'll do more trail races after that.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Um, I might go out to moab, um, for the half marathon champs, um kind of toss up there, um, because I will be building to doing cIM, the California International Marathon in December, trying to whittle down my marathon time.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: What's your marathon, Peter?
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: 2.21.30.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: That's so fast, dude.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, holy shit.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm trying to get a little bit closer to Christian Allen.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: We'll see if we can do it.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, dude, I'd love to see it.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, let's go baby.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: Um well, dude, thanks for breaking that down.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: We're getting right about an hour now, so we'll start getting into some some fun questions.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: Wild questions Um, dude, who inspires you?
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: I'm very curious to see this.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, that is a good question.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: Question.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with my dog woods.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: Um, so my dog woods is a australian shepherd and I think the reason why he inspires me is he has the best mental health on the planet.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Like he when he's tired he sleeps, when he's hungry he eats and when he like needs to go out for a run, he goes, runs around, has a ton of fun.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: I've seen him just flat out, just run into a wall, get up, act like nothing happened.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: He has no like shame response and he's like yeah, whatever, every person that he meets, he assumes they love him and just goes up I am the best person or the best dog here.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Of course you want to pet me, and if I could match that confidence and that self-love I'd be in a good place.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: Dude, I love it.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, that's the best answer I think I might've ever gotten.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: All right Sweet.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Love my dogs.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: My dogs are my kids, you know.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: They're mental health heroes.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: They're amazing.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: They are the best man.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: I just uh, I think it was like in 2020 when the pandemic hit.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: I started working from home and I was like very lucky in that situation yeah and um, yeah, dude, I have my dogs around me all like it's.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: This is like the first weekend in a while that I haven't had them with me and I'm like kind of bummed.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I wish I could have brought them to utah yeah, no, absolutely.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: I work from home as well.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, woods is myer.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're with you all the time.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: All the time, love it All right.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: Do any, any good books you've been reading lately.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, that is a good question.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Um, so, right now.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: So I listened.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: I'm currently listening to the Women by Christian Hanna on audiobook.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: It's a long drive out from Colorado out to here so I've been listening to that.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: That one is really good.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: But I would say my favorite book that I've read recently this year is probably Anxious People by Frederick Bachman.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: I think I got that correctly and it's just this.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: Really it's a goofy, comedic story about a bank robbery gone wrong and a hostage situation gone wrong, which doesn't sound very funny, but the way that it's written is really funny.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: It has fun little quips.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: The author does a really good job of telling everyone's story, so each character.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: When you first meet them, you might have a prejudice against them, of think like, oh, they're just kind of grumpy, they just kind of are the worst.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: But then you start hearing their backstory and he does this with every single character basically in the book and treats each character with just so much kindness that it's just really cool.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: And I love the idea of hearing about other people's stories because we're all the main character in our own stories right, it's true.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: And I love hearing and that's one of the things I love about coaching as well is I get to hear all these different stories and they're all amazing, they're all like worthy of books, they're all worthy of being told.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: I often say they're epics, you know, like there's highs, there's lows, there's comebacks, and I felt this book did a really good job of that of just exploring each character, just with kindness, and saying these characters are worth exploring.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Dude, I love that oh my god, I can't wait to re-listen to this and write that down, all right I'm gonna listen to that book.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: I might even listen to this on the way.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: Uh, you should, I've got nine hours of driving tomorrow.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: It's a fantastic book.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: Can't recommend it enough, oh dude appreciate that.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: All right, let's into some some silly stuff.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, you believe in bigfoot?
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: no, I do not, however, my um my girlfriend's step-grandmother okay believes in bigfoot and I remember first time I visited that grandmother's house she had this picture of a baby Bigfoot, which is just picture a human baby.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: That's very hairy.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: Is it like a drawing or like a?
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: photo.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: It's a drawing, okay, but a very well done drawing, like very good art style, and we pass by it and I look at it and I'm like do I say anything?
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: And we pass by, no one else addresses it.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, okay, we're just not talking about this and we pass by it again and then like goes and grabs it and is like Mason, did you see this?
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: And I'm like I happened to notice it and she's like my friend made me this from the first time she saw Bigfoot and I'm like the first time and I had so many questions, dude same.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: Like so many, like I want to know the whole backstory, like all these things.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: But I was like we shouldn't.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: We don't ask, don't ask.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: Emily's looking at me like don't do it, don't do it.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: I'm like don't laugh, don't laugh, don't laugh If.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: If anyone out there believes in Bigfoot, I totally uplift that.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Go for it.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: Go for it, you do you Send me anything that you found?
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: I'd love to see it.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: I think he was around at one point in time.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, possibly.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: I mean like scientifically I would imagine like Gigantopithecus, was maybe hung out a few thousand years longer than Michigan should have.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: But like as far as today, I don't think so.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do love cryptids though.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: Just all things about that.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: I'm just like this is fun.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what haven't we discovered yet?
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: South Carolina lizard man.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: I love it all it's.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: It's fantastic.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: All right, so I'll do one.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: I'll do one better.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: So this is like great book um called ghost Grizzlies.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: Uh, it's hard to get a hold of.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: You can find them like probably most of the public libraries in colorado, okay, so anyway, it's about grizzlies still hanging out in colorado like remnant populations.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, just like it's like this underground thing that's like in colorado, yeah, like grizzlies still being in like the san juans uh-huh the womenucci wilderness.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: So that's, I was gonna like piggyback on that.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, I don't know.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: We're taking some turns here.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: That sounds very fun.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: I love twists and turns.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: It's all great.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Um, trying to think of like what dude, what's your take on AI, Especially as, like you know, you got, like you were just finished college.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: What 2020 or something?
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: All right, so you're pretty fresh out, you think yeah.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: So to be honest, I've been a little disappointed by the uh, by ai um.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: So the reason for that?
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: My first experience with ai ever um was with my partner, emily.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: She used it a lot in um architecture, like they really wanted students to like play around with it and utilize it and kind of start experimenting around with it.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: Because again, it's it's probably going to be a part of the future and so they're trying to teach that and so she would show me these things where they're buildings that can't stand at all like they they don't listen to the laws of physics but it's really cool because it's completely thought out of a box, because if I sit down and I try to like draw a house, it's going to be like a house you've always seen and I'm not an architect, but again, you kind of get- You'll have the foundation, you'll have a roof, exactly.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: But I want to think outside of the box and so I got really excited.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: So I got chat GPT and I'm like, okay, I'm going to try to experiment, use it for coaching.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: I want something stupid, like I want something absolutely crazy, not something that I'll necessarily use for my athletes, but something that challenges my biases and challenges the way I think about things.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: That's what I want AI to be.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: But when I tried utilizing it, it gave me very general things and it just was very much of like if you just went and like Googled a training plan and I tried like stoking it and I tried like doing weird things, like give me something weird.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: I just couldn't and part of that might be on me of just not knowing how to utilize the software to get it to do what I want to do.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: But at this point in time it just hasn't.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: It hasn't met the the things that I want to use it for.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's fair Dude, that's so interesting You've used it or tried to use it for, like, some training and stuff like that.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah tried to use it for, like some, some training and stuff like that.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: I've heard many of people say that like it will give.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: Just I don't want to say like not redundant, but it'll give you your, it'll give you a basic training plan, but like nothing, yeah, and that's kind of the thing I've.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: I've gotten with it which I think it could be really beneficial.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: Like so, if you're out there and you just, for whatever reason, don't want to work with a coach and you're kind of interested, I think it can give you some decent training.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: Um, but I, I want to utilize it in a way that's like different, Like how do we, how do we level up training theory?
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Can we utilize this?
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: To level up training theory and I just I, I haven't been able to do that.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing too.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Is you would think, um, because it's indexed, internet index, obviously it's going to get.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: You would hope it would get some of the the, I don't know, I guess like some of the best literature out there, or the newest literature, but yeah.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think that's part of the problem is it is giving you that basic stuff.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: It's stuff that I already know.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: I want something I don't know I want to see something that I'm like, wow, that's crazy.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: And again like I don't want to just push that straight on to my athletes, but I want to be like, huh, can I use any element of this?
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: And then I use, then I get creative on how to weave it in.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, and that's the area that I think ai has a unique potential of being like okay, how can we use it to?
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like break out of our own biases, because technically, like it doesn't have like the experiences that I have, so it could come up with something crazy, and that's what I wanted.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not human.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: So it's like how would this thing think?
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Interesting.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: No, I'm glad to see like that's.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: That was the answer I was hoping for Okay.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: Something like that, because usually people like I've had a lot of researchers on and like um, it's funny.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: In boulder I feel like you pick an athlete out of a hat and they're usually like a phd oh yeah, it's very interesting very a lot of them.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: Like I just had like meg cook on and she was talking to me about like how she'll use it for I don't know some random shit with like chemical engineer.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just bananas but it's interesting to hear like how, um you know, I I love the way you you used it.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting to me.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: Like I, um, I work in corporate finance for my day job.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: So like there's only so many ways to make spreadsheets, yeah, it's not that exciting.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: Dude, what are your um, what are your goals in the sport Like, what do you, what do you want to do?
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: Before it's all said and done, yeah, that's a good question.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: Um, so Good question.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: So I've been doing a lot of reflecting on that as well and trying to figure that out, and it's always shifting.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: I think my goal in the sport is I just want to go out there, I want to put on a show, I want to make people smile when they see me come by, whether that's because I'm running a fast time or if it's because I'm cheering them on or if I'm saying hello.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: I just want to try to make this sport as fun as possible and that's my goal with my running.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: I try to go out there, I'm goofy with it, I try to put on a show, try to make people enjoy watching it, and I do that in my coaching.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: I try to make running for my athletes as fun and as enjoyable as possible and yeah, it's a simplistic thing that I don't think.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: I think it's overlooked a lot by a lot of people.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it gets overlooked by a lot of people of like, oh, I just, I want to be the best or whatever but, I just want to make the sport fun.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: I love it from like, especially like just from a I don't know dude.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: I feel I meet so many athletes just put so much pressure on themselves, you know, but, and it's so refreshing to hear someone be like, yeah, I just you know, especially at your level, to just say I just want to enjoy this.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: Like so it's all about no at the end of the day, like no one's going to look like, unless I mean, maybe maybe our sport grows to where it's NFL caliber one day or something like that and people can look back at like results and shit like that, but probably more than likely not.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: Nobody.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: nobody cares, yeah but I would even argue that the only way that it can grow is if we make it enjoyable and if we make it fun to watch.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: Another person that I really respect is Noah Lyles.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: What he's done for track running phenomenal, absolutely Excellent.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: He's made it entertaining.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: He's made it engaging, but it's fun, it's lighthearted.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: He's pulling Yu-Gi-Oh cards out at the us championship, like that is fun.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: That could be taken as he's not taking it seriously.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: He's taking it very seriously, yeah, but he's making it enjoyable.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: He's making it fun for everyone and that is the kind of energy I want to bring.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: Of course, I'm not going to do it in noah Lyles' way, because only he can do it in that way and I can't pull that off, but that would be my ultimate goal is make it fun.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: On that note, I think we got it all.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: Let's get some plugs going.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: Let's plug your coaching business.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: Are you looking for more athletes?
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I you looking for more athletes, or yeah, yeah, um, I'm looking for more athletes.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: My uh coaching business is hello to running.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: Um, you can find that at hello to runningcom.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got on hat.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: I sell hats, um and yeah, I coach basically everything and anything and anyone.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: One of the benefits of being a hybrid athlete is knowing how to train multiple things, so I train people who do more road races, more trail races.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: I've coached people from couch to 5K.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: I've coached a guy to a 200 miler.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: I've coached people to BQs and basically everything and anything, um and so yeah, dude, I love it I love it.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: Let's uh, what's your instagram?
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: So we'll get you uh my instagram is m?
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: uh kopi 44, so m-c-o-p-p-i 44 nice bro.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on man all right.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much this is the first of many.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: This is a great conversation.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: This is so much fun.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: Appreciate it.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: Dude, have a good night.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think?
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that one.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: Um, I told you it was going to be special.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: What a great conversation.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: Uh, just want to personally thank Mason so much for coming on the podcast.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: A lot of fun and I was really stoked for him to actually like kind of break down and dissect his race a little bit.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: Talk about, you know, everything from training to diet to you name it.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: You know, I think the most important takeaway was from this was just his attitude and that was, I think, my favorite part about the conversation.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: Like, he just has such a positive attitude towards the sport, toward racing and just towards his own performance, and I and I think we all can all learn um a little something from that on just how to approach the sport with such positivity and poise, and I think that that excitement um is just palpable.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: So really want to thank Mason so much for coming on.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: Um, guys, hop on Instagram.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: Let's, uh, let's give them a follow.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: Um, if you type on Instagram M-C-O-P-P-I-44, it's Mason Copey on Instagram.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: Give them a follow, shoot them a DM, let them know what you guys thought about the episode and, if you enjoyed it, send them some kind of words of encouragement.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: Last but not least, mason is also a coach.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: So if you are interested in coaching um or are looking for a coach for any program that you might be looking for, I know Mason um had said he coaches people of pretty much all distances.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: Um, he's coached a guy over 200 miles.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: He's coached people in five Ks and kind of everything in between.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: Um, so if you are interested, go ahead and check that out.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: It's hello to running coaching and I'm sure if you just shoot him a DM on Instagram he'll get right back to you.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: So, guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: Be on the lookout for many more.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: Last but not least, actually two things, two housekeeping things.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: First one is is if you enjoyed this episode, please hop on Apple or Spotify.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: I'd love if you could give us a rating and review.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: That's how we can get this out to the world.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: That's how more people can learn about the Steep Stuff podcast and what we bring to the sub-ultra world.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: And very, very last but not least, as a special thank you to our listeners, ultimate Direction was kind enough to give us a 25% off discount code for your cart.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: Go, treat yourself, get yourself a belt, get yourself a vest, get yourself a handheld, get some apparel, hook yourself up, treat yourself, guys, treat yourself, use code, steep stuff, pod at checkout for 25% off, and this is going to be good through September.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, have a great week, guys, and thanks for listening and tuning in.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you.