Latest / ICOMIA Podcast / Robert Parton | President of British Marine | ICOMIA Podcast
Transcript
- Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Icomia podcast, where we hold the industry's most important conversations.Uh, today, we're at Aqueduct Marina.It's always good to come to a, an operating marine business.That's great.Yeah.And we've got Robert Parton, the owner of, um, Aqueduct Marina and also the president of British Marine.Yep.So welcome to the podcast.Thanks for joining us, Robert.Great, great to be here.Thank you very much.And I will mention also our sponsor, uh, which is Elite Marinas, who allow these conversations, um, to take place by supporting the podcast.So thank you very much to them.So let's have some context first, Robert.Who are you?What's your background?What's the kind of background of Aqueduct Marina?Well, yeah, yeah, well, obviously, obviously, welcome to Aqueduct Marina, as I just said, um, on this beautiful February gray afternoon.Yeah.Um, but yeah.I bet it would be a bit different in July.Yeah, I know.You know, boating season, are we- Yeah.Um, no, it's great to be here.Yeah.Um, obviously, as you can see from behind me, we are a canal boat inland waterways marina in middle of Cheshire, right in the heart of the country.Um, the background, I could talk about it for hours, but we probably haven't got hours, but basically, um, I've lived here all my life.We were, we were previously a farming family 20 years ago, sold the cows.17, 16 years ago, opened a marina, which is basically what you see behind me.So we founded the business, opened the business up 15, 16 years ago, 150-berth marina.Behind us here is the cafe, office, brokerage, um, caravan site, um, very busy boat repair yard for all things canal boating.So the business has developed and grown over those years, um, and now employs about 50 people across the business, and probably a few more in peaks of the summer.Um, and, uh, it, it's keeping us very busy, and, and it's been quite an interesting journey along the way, which, again, I could talk about for hours, but anyway.I, I'm, I'm sure.I, I, I want to hear just a tad more, because we're gonna talk about taxation and various different- Yeah.very serious things.But I think-the context of, I suppose, the reality of what kind of organization an inland marina is- Yeah.is important so that we can communicate what the, well, the importance of what's going on with business rates and things like that- Yeah.and actually the impact on the business.Yeah.Okay.Well, we'll come d- details there, so but yeah.Yeah, yeah, yeah.So we opened the marina, as I say, 2009, so 17 years ago, um, on Valentine's Day.So it's, um, umValentine's Day is an important day for 2 reasons.It's the anniversary of the marina.Yeah.It's also Valentine's Day.Um, no, so we opened the marina, and the plan was at that point, we had 150-berth marina, and the workshops and the cafe.The plan was we'd look after the marina and look after the moorings, um, and we had tenants in the workshops, 3 different, 3 different businesses, a painter, a fabricator, and a joiner.And then we had tenants in the cafe.And the idea was that we'd have a small team looking after the place, but all the work would be done by the tenants in the cafe, et cetera, et cetera.Yeah.Um, after 3 years, that was just never working, um, for all sorts of reasons.Just, just, just chaotic?Chaotic.Conflicts of interest, stuff like that?All that.Right.Yeah, yeah, yeah.The cafe that you keep up is, is integral to the middle of the site, and it, and, and we were just too cheek by jowl, and the cafe wasn't really big enough at that time to really create a proper business.So in the end, we ended up taking the cafe back in hand, so if, if you come to the cafe today, the, the team who are serving you and feeding you are employed by the marina, all part of our team.The cafe's now grown.It's a much bigger thing.But it's, um, back at the start, it wasn't really big enough.Um, and then the workshops had 3 different, different people.And if you're a boat owner, you probably want a bit of painting, a bit of joining, a bit of fabrication all at the same time.Yeah.And we couldn't really get the 3 different businesses to work together.At the moment that the fabricators saw the, the painter with a welder in his hand, it was World War III.Yeah.It just wasn't working.You're competing.Why are you not sending that business to us?Yeah.So, so as those 10 tenants all finished, uh, f- finished after their 3year lease, we just didn't renew them and took it all back in hand.So now if you come to Aqueduct Marina, the welder, the fabricator, the joiner, the, all those teams are engineers.They're all Aqueduct.They're all Aqueduct.It's all one organization.They're all wearing the logo.Yeah, yeah.All employed by us.So we now, we've very much become a one-stop shop for everything for canal boats, whether it's brokerage, parts, repairs, moorings.We have a big storage yard as well.So at our ker- our core business operation is to be all things one-stop shop for the, for the canal boat and also for the canal boat owner.So the canal boat owner comes down, they're with us.Yeah.We can look after everything, even their cup of coffee.Yeah.So, um, and that generally works really quite well.We're in a cracking location, middle of the network.Um, so canal boats, as you're probably well aware, don't move very far very fast.Yeah.But where we are here, we're in the center of quite a few different canals.Yeah.So within 48 hours, you've got quite a decent connection of canals, which makes this a better place to, um, be based for cruising from, but also means that boats can get to us for repairs and services.In those 6 in that 16-year journey to where we are today, um, everything has grown a bit, but it's the boat repair side of business that's really taken off.And that's now got, that's, that's now 2thirds of the business in terms of turnover.Right.And, and fundamentally- Yeah.I suppose it's gone from individual organizations into using the marina more like a hub.Yeah.A kind of, "Okay, this is where people need to be.There's a lot of infrastructure there."Yeah.But then capitalizing on the opportunity around the repair side, the cafe side, the day out, everything, e- every spend the boater has- Yes.Wha-becomes under one, and that makes it a more viable business.That- That- That's what makes it happen.That's the model.Doesn't work perfectly all the time.But in, in general terms, sort of the journey is that, so, so the brokerage is a key part of that, the boat sales operation.Yeah.So our boats for sale, um, Ben comes down to look at a boat.He buys a boat or agrees to buy a boat.Yeah.Has a survey done."We can sort all that out for you."Then when, when the survey's done, heall this work that wants doing-We can recon- And onto the next business that goes on.We can do it for you.Yeah, yeah.We can then do that work for you.Yeah.You then hopefully want a mooring for it, we can provide you the mooring.And that, that journey is basically, wraps up the package basically of how, how the, the business sort of, the customer journey works.And it varies, we've still got some customers that have been here since the day we opened 16, 17 years ago.Um, but there's other business, other businesses that, um, other customers who are only with us 6 months.So some people- Right.buy the boat, have the work done and leave.Are literally seasonal, just come along- Yes.have their work, which is sort of perfectly good- Yes.if it's part of the business, and then move on, don't want the rest of it.But that's- Yeah.That's fine by you.That works.Yeah.Well, and, and we're finding increasingly the customer jo- the customer requirement is more flexible.So 16 years ago, everyone bought a 12 month mooring, stayed 12 months, renewed another 12 months.Now the whole model of how the canal operates, um, continuous cruising, all that sort of thing, people are being m- have to, people are wanting much more flexibility.They, they drop in and out.Yeah.Um, so that, that, that, that has definitely been a change we've seen over the years.So we've 0 we've changed the way we operate the moorings, um, which has been quite interesting.And so things, much as canal boating doesn't change much, it does also, the customer does, does change all the time.And, you know, uh, as the sort of next generation of owners come through, they, they come from a background that I think incre- increasingWhen we opened, they were very much boaters boated in overalls.Yeah.And part of their enjoyment of their boat was they'd do the, a lot of the work themselves.So the boat was here, we could put it on the storage yard and they would paint their boat themselves and service it themselves.Yeah, they'd do the rest.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Do the rest themselves.Yeah.Whereas increasingly now, the customers actually, um, are more used to what I call a, uh, a car, sort of, you know, a Land Rover Discovery main dealership type service where actually you want to have it all done for you.You're prepared to pay a little bit for it.As long, as long as you get the, as long as the work's done properly and professionally.So it's that wraparound package people want now, we feel more, rather than that DIY approach.And that's been the, probably the biggest change.We've been able to provide that, that full package of services to support that, that- Yeah.that newer customer.Yeah.And even beyond boating, your, uh, I know you've got some lodges here under development- Yeah.and kind of ha- starting now to branch out actually beyond boating, but it's all the same customer, it's all the same- Yeah.facilities.So there's a bit of an e- an efficiency of scale of facilitating for them as well as the marina, the boat owner, the repair side, everything.Yeah, right.So you mentioned lodges.Yeah.Yeah, we have got planning permission to put 29 lodges in.Oh, that's quite, quite a few.WithYeah.I thought it was 5.No, 29.I thought it was a nice little row.No.So that's- Wow.that's the next project.Right.Yeah, yeah.Um, we're trying to sort funding out for that at the moment, which is a bit of journey in itself.Okay.Yeah, I'm sure.Um, but you're right.So the lessons we've learned about how to look after the customers in, in the marina, to our lodge customers, we also have a caravan site that we've run for a few years.the marine waterside destination element is the hub.That's what, that's- Yeah.that's the hook.But the way, the, what the customer needs as regards to the lodge, you know, the cafe, the sort of, and much, it's a great all-dayCheshire is a fantastic location.You're not far from anywhere.You, within an hour- You've got some bid c- you've got some big cities fairly locally.Yeah.You've got plenty of, you know, within an hour commuting distance, you've got- Yeah.you've got a lot of people.Cheshire is a lovely rural location, lots of small market towns, but within an hour, hour and a half, you can be at Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham.You can be, in sort of 2 hours you can be in Cumbria, North Wales.We're right in the middle of quite a lot of quite nice places of all things to all people, really.Yeah.So, it's, uh, uh, so Cheshire is, uh, fantastically well connected, which is why the canals are here as well.Yeah.Yeah, I wa- I was gonna say for the, for the roads and the canals.Yeah.Yeah, happy days.Yeah.And the trains.And the trains.Yeah.Yeah.So, so, uh, one thing I get asked all the time is, for marine industry associations everywhere, they have all these members, the, they're marine businesses and they say, "Well, what do I get out of being part of a marine industry association?"For mariners, uh, that are part of the British Marine Federation, they've recently had a, basically things unfold around business rates.Yeah.Can you, can you give us some context of what was going to happen, what the industry association did, and now what's the case?Okay.Well- Just so people can see it really clearly.Before I get to that particular- Yeah, sure.specialist topic- Yeah, yeah.sort of my, you mentioned British Marine there, which obviously you, you mentioned I'm, I'm currently president of.Yeah.So, we opened the marina in 2009.And for 2 or 3 years, it was shoulders to the wheel, head down, just let's survive and get- It's the start of a business, yeah, yeah, yeah.get a start for business and after 2 or 3 years, we started to settle down, business was n- uh, by now, sort of the, the rhythm had settled down, we'd got a small team in place.And I started to think, well, I now need to go learn what this marina game is really about and go and sort of venture out to s- meet the wider, wider, wider marine network.So, my first British Marine experience was a, um, advanced marina managers course down in Sandbanks in, um, Poole, Dorset.And, um, so that was my first introduction to British Marine.So quite quickly following on from that, my engagement with British Marine, that was my access to marine network, whether it's coastal or inland, that expertise and knowledge that I didn't really have.Uh, I say expertise and knowledge, that, that marine, uh, legislative knowledge.Yeah.And that, that still remains today.I still feel that British Marine is the only place where a business like mine can get that specialist marine leisure, whether you're, you're, you're, whether you're a mariner on the coast or a mariner in land, British Marine is the only place that's got that, um, technical specialist knowledge.And most of that knowledge is actually amongst the membership, people like myself, sharing ideas and experiences.Yeah, it's such a specialist resource.Yeah.You just can't find it many places.No.And so, with everybody coming together under that entity, it kinda, it kinda works as a place to go, a bit of a resource for- Yeah.exactly this kind of thing.And I, I found over the years, so British Marine is, uh, made up of several associations in land.And one of the, you know, the one that looks after marinas, they've got harbor associations who I network quite closely with them- Yeah.their events, their things, and that's been quite a, um, hugely useful resource.So then the business rate changes, that was before Christmas, that, um, which is quite contentious in itself, 'cause everyone's had a massive uplift in their valuation, including us, which means we're all paying a bit more money.But leisure businesses, um, generally had a slightly different multiplier calculation, which meant they didn't pay quite as much.Um, so if you're a caravan site, l- sort of campsite, holiday park, they all got this, they all got this, in effect, uh, adjustment legi- um, different, different valuation calculation discount for being leisure businesses.When you looked at the businesses that qualified, marinas were not mentioned.Right.I- it overlooked it.So no relief.No relief, that's the word.No happening.No relief.Yeah.Yeah.So anyway, so to better British Marine, this issue, issue was flagged up, um, um, Joanna Richardson, who's the public affairs lady, went in and sort of lobbied, found the right person within Treasury Department of Transport, wherever, wherever the right person sits.And said, "Listen, do you realize this is what's happening?"So you went to government and said, "Basically, this is going to be devastating for the marina industry."Well, I think actually more- "Why, why are we not a leisure business?"Yeah.'Cause it's, it's leisure.Yeah.I think some, some, some battles are quite easy to win.Yeah.You know, "We are a leisure industry."Yeah."We are the trade body for leisure industry and marinas are a leisure, leisure business.Why do, why have you been overlooked?"And, um, so they went about quite quickly, they realized that actually the, we are, we are a leisure businesses and they added us to the list.So that was quite a quick, um, dis- clear cut with the trade body, "Let's go and just go find the right person to get this sorted out."And it- Which, which I think is important to distinguish, that you as an individual marina would really struggle to do that.Yeah.You probably wouldn't have the resource to do it.But actually, as marinas all over the UK come together under the British Marine- Yeah.Federation, you can do that, there's the value of membership together.Yeah.Yeah, if I, if I, if I was Robert Palmer, that could get me there.Like, "Who's this guy?""We're not going to be able to change taxation 'cause of this guy."Yeah.I would, I wouldn't know who to call, where to go.Yeah.Whereas that's, that, there's a, they, wh- whereas when, if I, if you're a British Marine represented in a body, it opens doors, people listen, don't they?And British Marine, they, you know, they've been around for an awful long time, they've built up a huge amount of credibility, reputation, they are the respected body.So if, if they're bringing you up as the Department for Transport or whatever it is, you're probably going to at least listen to it, aren't you?Yeah.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Uh, so, so that, that was quite an important win, 'cause you know, it's important that, um, you know, we're not put at a disadvantage to other similar businesses.'Cause ultimately, as a marina, we're all competing in a space where, um, people own our boats, they could own a motor home, they could go on a cruise around the world, you know, and we need to remain competitive on price and efficiency and the rest of it.It's, the service and what we offer is, is important, but we need to be able to compete on a level playing field.If that was the case, where we would have been, we would have been put at a disadvantage.Yeah.And how does this help you invest in the marina, grow the number of people you employ, the number of berths?Just as an organization, how does, how does that make it more attractive for investment when, for example, you're pitching for 29 more lodges to, to be built around it?Yeah.Well, it's all part of the calculation, 'cause obviously 29 lodges means that our rateable value will go up and we'll be paying more rates.Now, if that calculation means you're going to go up and it's going to go up by even more, 'cause the calculation's wrong, well then- That might be too much.i- it starts to make- You won't do it.Yeah.'Cause whenever, in my experience, whenever you run these numbers, these projects, it generally wipes its feet and, and clears, it doesn't, but doesn't leave much cream, but you need that cream to make it worthwhile.And so that, 10% sometimes is all it can be.Yeah.There's difference between thinking, "Phew, that's a risk worth taking or not worth taking."So, and it comes down to cash rate, 'cause it's straightforward, you're paying that business rates bill, whether, whether the marina's full or empty, whether we're making money or not, whether we're successful or not, we're paying that bill.Yeah.It's a straightforward cash cost to the business.Yeah.And all businesses, um, you know, as the saying goes, turnover is, you know vanity.Yeah.Profit is, uh- Insanity, yeah, yeah.insanity, and, and cash, you know, and cash is everything, you know.If you haven't got the cash, and that was something that would just take cash, and that's really where the damage comes, because if it's taking cash out of the business, you haven't got that cash to go invest in new services, new equipment, new stuff, better f- better facilities.So i- i- i- in my view, that wasn't something that was going to kill us overnight.But over ten years, you'd have seen, actually, those businesses haven't been able to, haven't had the res- cash to be able to go and improve and maintain and look after the place, compared to say the other, the other leisure busi- other leisure businesses nearby.So, so let's have some wider context as well.So, um, inland waterways generally- Yes.lacking investment.Yes.Some, let's say, symptoms are becoming very 0 uh, very obvious.There's been various things in the news about collapsing canals and all this kind of thing.Sure.What, what's an overview of that situation?Why is that happening?Um, - Big question.That's a very good question.And, and it's the fundamental threat to our inland, inland network.Um, the, canals, obviously, as everyone probably knows, were built originally as commercial- And, and probably not as many people as you think.So, so do explain how it all works- Okay, canals were-because it is useful.Yeah, okay, well,It's obvious to you.Yeah.Okay.Um, yeah, the canals were built 200 plus years ago for moving coal pro- product around the country.Yeah.And- Moving coal out of dirty me.That's it, that's it.That's the one.Um, just, a- and then with the transport network for, for commercial reasons, weren't they?And then they, that, that, the train was the big thing that probably started, really killed it off.But it, it, it lived on until around the second World War.Not long after the second World War, they really became redundant, unused, uh, and, uh, a dy- dying thing, but they hadn't done that initially.Right.And they start to be used for leisure reasons rather than tr- Yeah, well then in the, in the sort of '50s, '60s, there were some quite strong lobbying campaign groups.People got their overalls on, put the boots on, and started to just volunteer and just campaign and get the canals reopened again.So by the '70s, it was, it was quite a successful network.Lots of high boats moving around.People were buying boats in the leisure.The canals and leisure cruising network, as we know it today, really started them.And that's worked ex- ex- really quite well.Right.Right, and that's 55, 56 years?Yes.Yeah, yeah.Um, but the problem is, is that, um, the network is 200 years old.There's hundreds of locks on the network, reservoirs, lift bridges, all that, and it, and it's, it's 200 years old, and it needs looking after.Um, and then the lastSo, I'm st- sat here today now telling you how good we are because we're middle of a, we're middle of all these canals.Yeah.The most popular canal in the country is currently shut, Llangollen, because everyone's seen it on TV, the Whitchurch breach over, just before Christmas.So that canal will be shut for the next 12 months and will cost the Navigation Authority Canals and River Trust millions of pounds to put right.Wow.There's another bru- another, another major canal network which links, um, Oslo to Manchester, which actually belongs to Peel Holdings, the Bridgewater Canal.That breached just over 12 months ago.That's still not been fixed.Um, the Anderton Boat Lift that links the canal to the River Weaver, fantastic 200-year-old architectural engineering masterpiece, is currently shut, because, because they haven't got the funds to repair it.So the, there is a fundamental, um, inability by navigation authorities to keep the network fully operational, and these reservoirs to maintain, which is another whole can of worms as well.So the, so we built our marina 16 years ago, like I say.Yeah.And the deal basically w- Around the same time, British Waterways, which was the old navigation authority, became Canals and Rivers Trust- Yeah.which is the sort of charity, charity that it is today.And they had a f- um, a 20, I think it was a 20-year funding agreement from the government of around 50 million pounds a year, uh, which has run, and that's more or less worked.So when I, when I invested in my marina, 16, 17 years ago- Yeah.that was the deal.You could see that basically it worked.So you had that infrastructure, that- Yeah.kind of, um, stability that you could predict- Yes.and say, "Okay, well, that'll be pretty sturdy for the next 20 years at least."Yeah.The gov- the government in their wisdom, last, last year or the year before, announced that the government subsidy to that funding formula was dropping by half, roughly.So when you've got a, a network that's already struggling with their funding and you squeeze it, uh, i- i- it's- It's not, it's not a good outcome, yeah.you've got death by s- death by a thousand cuts.So there is a fundamental job for British Marine and other, other na- well, British Marine and others to keep raising the awareness, the importance, because when you've got a viable network that's up and running, businesses like this, we invest in the canal.We built, we spent 1000000, we spent millions of pounds building a marina-to invest in the canal network.Yeah.And you're employing loads of people.Yeah.It's bringing revenue to the area.So- Yeah.it's a whole thing.It's a little micro-economy around the business.Pay, yeah, all the rest of it, so.And it wouldn't otherwise happen.And, and I think it's important to this thing, which is why I'm with you.You mentioned 3 key points where the infrastructure's just gone.Yes.So there'sThe way I look at canals, I should, I should get on them more often.I've n- I've never actually navigated for any length of time or more.No, yeah.But, um, as far as I understand, if you're going from A to B, there's probably one route there.Or certainly on the major channels.So if that choke point, uh, collapses, for example- Yeah.and you can't navigate through there- Yeah.that section is closed, but that actually closes off a whole nother area that you would otherwise be able to cruise to.Absolutely right, yeah, they- So in terms of where these guys can go out and enjoy the waterways, if there's a choke point close by, they're not going very far.No.Th- th- th- there, there is, there isn'tMore, more often than not, there is not a diversion alternative.You've got to- That's what I was looking for.Yeah.That's a bit, that's a better way of putting it, yeah.So the, yeah.So the recent breach at Whitchurch has, has a fantastic canal there and back.Yeah.And it's, it's been cut halfway along.So, um, basically 2 weeks ago, we were part of a local, a haulage firm and mar- marinabreach.We moved 9 boats from that side of the canal, that side of the breach, lifted them out on a crane, put them on a lorry, brought them here, put them back in the water 'cause they were on the wrong side of the breach and the only way they could get back was on a lorry.So, you know, so there is, there's all sorts of issues around the funding of the canals and it, and it actually goes, goes wider than just the canals 'cause the navigable rivers have the same issues on the river Thames, the environment agency who run that.Um, broad authorities are a bit the same.Uh, the, the, there is a fundamental concern around, uh, how we keep the canals open and viable and operating as we know and like them at the moment.And, and, yeah, and then you mix it with that climate change, you know, and increasing rainfall and how that affects things, the droughts last year.Yeah.Um, there's a whole, the whole res- resilience of the network is a huge question.And then does that put a question mark on, I suppose, the whole future of inland waterways?But things like tourism, hiring a boat as well as owning 1and having one yourself.Is it, are there just kind of really obvious- Yeah.opportunities that otherwise you, you can't capitalize on 'cause of the lack of infrastructure, lack of investment into it?So people don't know that they will be able to go on the canals if they're planning a holiday in the middle of July.Yeah.And one, one of the problems can be f- I, I don't run a hire fleet so I'm perhaps, I'm, I'm not the expert on the hire boats or holidays- Okay.but for example- Yeah.um, there was a breach we talked about on Llangollen Canal just before Christmas.All over the TV news, great story for the, for the news networks on a slow news day, canals in the mud, et cetera, et cetera.Yeah, yeah.That was one canal in, in, in, in Wales, linked to us in the northwest of the country, but all the public see is, "Oh, the canals are broken."And people stop booking all over the country.Right.So, so the, uh, i- i- so the,Like a breach there hits the news, becomes public knowledge.You go, "Don't go."Yeah.So- "Don't go canal boating in the UK."So, so, so the key time of Christmas when people, when they plan their holidays, people are booking holidays on Yeahtheir next holiday, book, book, booking next year's holiday.Yeah.All they're seeing on the news is, "Oh, the canals are shut."people stop booking.So there is a huge threat and, and, and one of the, you know, um, the hire boat companies are f- The hire boat companies feel it first 'cause, 'cause the journey of the boating customer is someone like myself will hire a boat for a couple of years."Oh, I quite like this.This is great fun."Yeah.And then they go and buy a boat for themselves.Yeah.So the first people to feel the pinch when people stop is obviously the hire boat guys.People stop booking.That doesn't mean that in 3, 4, 5 years' time down the road- Fewer sales.Fewer people buying them.Yeah.And even longer beyond that as well, they don't upgrade the boat.They're not- That's it.regularly here at a destination- Yeah.like this.So- And that's spending into the industry, yeah.So, so that's, so, so there is an issue around that so, so the, uh, and we all know the main, mainstream media like the news, they love a bit of bad news.Yeah, yeah.And, and, and don't always make it clear that actually don't worry, that canal's shut, the rest of the country- Plenty more is fine.Yes.Yeah, yeah.Um, so that's- Still go.Still get out there.Yes.Do it.Yeah.Yeah.So, um, that, that is a problem, um, and the hire boat guys, um, have had a diff- had a difficult year last year on the back of the drought as well.Because last year on the drought, lots of the canals around the country were short of water.So couldn't operate problem- Yeah.properly.So they've had a difficult year last year.And, um, yeah.So the, the hire boat guys have had a difficult couple of years.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Okay.And we've talked a lot about doom and gloom-as it, as it started raining quite heavily.Yes.But, um, the, what's your kind of optimistic view?What's the next few years look like?Just something to cheer us up and be optimistic aboutYeah, well, well, the, the, yeah, I, I, yeah, I, I are a glass half full person.Yeah.Good, good.And very conscious with talking here.I don't want to be the, the doom and gloom merchant.So I'm ever the optimist, but last year, um, Southampton International Boat Show- Yeah.is the annual big event, um, for all things marine, leisure- Yeah.from your super yachts down to your little dinghies.Yeah.And-last year, this wa- la- last year were the first time properly we took a canal boat down there.We had an inland waterways feature at the show.Erm, well, you probably saw it.Yeah, yeah.And that was fascinating.'Cause it, 'cause I came home from the boat show really quite enthused, because for all the concerns about climate change and canals closing, all the stories just discussed- Yeah.actually there is a massive love of our canals amongst the general public.The audience at the boat show coming down, loving to tell you stories about- Yeah.the holiday they were on last year or when they were 20 years ago.So there is still a massive audience of people there who want to go canal boating.And that opportunity is still there.Um, it's part of the frustration why- Uh, just, yeah, so there's so much opportunity.Yes.Just capitalize on it and just facilitating it along- Yeah.and good things happen.But also, it's a greatPeople, peoplesNot just UK based, it's international.We've got customers here who are based in New Zealand, America, all over the country.We're getting about here.I thought you were gonna say France.Well.You know, close by, but yeah.Yeah, no, no.You see, but there are- They are around.quite a few Scand- quite a few Scandinavians.Right, yeah.Um, so it's the internationalIt's not an export in the way we export cars, let's say.but it's bringing in some- Yeah, could be doing it all, all around the world.Yeah.Yeah, yeah.So peopleIt's a, it's a national asset.Yeah.A treasure.It's something that, something that brings people to the UK.So I do see opportunities but it's, there are some fundamental concerns that through British Marine we work quite hard to lobby for and make sure the Treasury, the Government Department for Trade are doing the, doing, are doing the right thing.Super.Robert- Yeah.best luck with the investment.Yes.Best of luck with growing the marina.It will look good in summer.Yes.Well, yes.I, ICome back in June, we'll do it again.Yeah, yeah.Yeah, yeah.No, sounds fantastic.Yeah, yeah.Thank you very much.Everybody, if this content is helpful to your business, make sure you follow in here to see plenty more of it.All being well, we'll see you again next time.One last thank you to Elite Marinas for supporting this podcast series.It would, simply wouldn't happen without them.So thank you, and we'll see you on the next episode.Yeah.Bye for now.Yep.