Latest / Spiritual AF! / EP #76 - Healing Against the Odds with Charlie Goldsmith

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EP #76 - Healing Against the Odds with Charlie Goldsmith · Spiritual AF!

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: I know the value of this thing that I'm trying to give away.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's very strange to have this thing that you know has this value.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I keep showing it.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: I've done it in hospitals, I've done it on television, I've done it on the news.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: I demonstrate it all the time.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so, but the world almost doesn't want it, you know?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: And when I work on people, the change is very fast.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, someone can have 10 years of chronic pain and it just goes, you know, it can be in seconds.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: People often ask me how long does it last?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the best I can tell you is 27 years for this one person.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's the university creating all the metrics.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: We're basically setting up the data where they are to validate healers at the level of scrutiny that a scientific study is.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I'm Liz Bulf, and I'm Diane Druskold.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: And this is Spiritual As Fuck, where spirituality meets the real world.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: In this episode, we sit down with internationally recognized energy healer Charlie Goldsmith to explore his remarkable journey from his first healing experience, where he believed he was going crazy, to fighting for the opportunity to be studied inside a major public hospital, having doctors study his work firsthand.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: We explore what happens when science meets the unexplained and what it feels like to have your life's work constantly questioned.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone, welcome back.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is a pretty special episode, especially if you feel like you need any type of healing in any area of your life.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because today we're joined by internationally recognized healer and author, Charlie Goldsmith.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of people listening today are going to know your name, Charlie.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you don't know who Charlie is, he has worked with thousands of people around the world healing them and honestly challenging what people feel are normal.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, welcome, first of all, Charlie.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here today.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Liz and Diane, for having me.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's meeting you both.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, when we were, I was spending a bit of time thinking about this interview, and I feel like there's so many places we could go and so many questions.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it came down to with everything that you've done, how on earth did you first even discover that you had this ability?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not something that we all suddenly realize that we've got this ability to heal.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Where did your journey actually begin?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um to go to the day before that the journey began, uh even before even the minute before, I guess I had never heard of people doing what I've ended up doing.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, I'd never heard of it in the modern era anyway.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying it didn't exist, but my um my life to that point, I had no idea that people um had these talents, and if they did, that they they could be so uh incredibly effective and helpful to people.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: So when I did discover it, uh, which I was 18, I was only a few months out of school, actually.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and it sort of spontaneously happened.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I started feeling um like a phenomena between my hands, which I would sort of compare pretty accurately, actually, to holding two opposing magnets.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so well, it's actually a combination of an attracting magnet and opposing, depending where you hold your hands.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: So the first thing I ever did was I started feeling energy, which I hadn't consciously knowingly felt before.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and when that happened, when it first happened, I thought that I was going crazy because it was such a tangible feeling between my hands.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: And because I'd never heard of it, and I understand now that you know people do Tai Chi and all these things to feel their their qi or or the different terms people have for these things.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: For me, I hadn't known that that was a possibility.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I started feeling energy, and you know, in that moment that I started feeling it, I literally thought I'm I'm going I'm going crazy.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and I started, wow, yeah, genuinely well, like 100%.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I'm I'm in trouble, like my my mind is has departed.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then what happened was there were people sitting around me when I was sort of having this experience and silently having this experience, and someone was like, Are you okay?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I'm not okay, I can feel something between my hands, and and it's sort of freaking me out.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I turned to the person directly to my right, and I was like, Feel this.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I put my hand up and she put her hand up.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm thinking, if I don't even know what I was thinking, but I was just like in this state of um, it was a I was in a very uncomfortable feeling, and then she put her hand up and she was like, Oh my god, what is that?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: And she had felt um, I guess, the uh her whatever her experience of that was, and that was an immediately relieving.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I was on this roller coaster of this extreme, like just internal distress, like I'm in trouble to okay, it's not just me.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and then what happened was other people where I was, I was actually doing work experience on a health retreat in in um southern Queensland, and um other people came up to feel this thing that was just kind of coming out of me all of a sudden.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: And one lady came up and she put her hand up to feel it.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: And as soon as she put her hand up, I felt something about her hand that was different to everyone else's.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: So just to try and pull you as close as I can to being there.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: I was holding my hand about this far away from people, I wasn't touching them.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: And when I put my hand up, I felt like this lump that was in the air, but I could feel it uh coming off her hand.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know why, but I just like I just feel this lump, and and no one else had this lump prior to her, and I was like, I don't know why, but I just have to get rid of this lump.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: I had no idea.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: I got I don't know at this point.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not distressed, I'm curious, I suppose, um, and quite present in that I wasn't really thinking, like, what's going on?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I was just kind of doing anyway.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I started kind of trying to get rid of this lump was with my hand, and again, it was a very it was a very tangible experience.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I got to the point where the lump was almost gone, and I sort of had a break in concentration.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: I looked at her, she was crying, like really crying, and I was like, Oh, I'm hurting you.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so sorry, like you should have told me to stop.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know what this is doing.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: And she says, No, no, no, keep going.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Okay, so keep going.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I get to the point where the lump is, um, you know, my perception of it is gone.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: And she starts bending her finger.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: She says, I haven't been able to bend this finger in you know, uh 10 years, or whatever she said.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: So um, that was my first experience, and in that moment, I went back into that kind of shocked, like, whoa, what?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I didn't know I didn't, I hadn't, I had I wasn't thinking that this is doing something.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't thinking, I just was doing it.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: It was like, I don't know, I wouldn't call it a a trance, but it was just like, I don't know.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: I I can't, it's hard to describe because it's only happened to me the one time in my life where I've had an event like this.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, so I went back into kind of a bit of shock because I like I mentioned earlier, I'd never I never heard of anyone doing anything like this.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, she had the arthritis, so she knew what I was doing.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: She was aware that I had I was targeting something, but I had no idea.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: So uh that was the beginning, uh, and that was 27 years ago.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I've been doing it for for a while.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh, Charlie, I before you go on, I would love to ask because when I heard that story originally, because like Liz and I have both been following your work for a long time, but I have arthritis in my in my hands.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: So when I heard that first of all, I was like, oh my gosh, I I I guess I was trying to view it from your perspective as uh what you were going through and you know, trying to reconcile what's happening, but also for the person that was feeling because they're feeling it on the inside of their body and knowing what it must have felt like for that energy to be moving or the the sense of freedom back in your in your hands coming at that point in time.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: But that initial connection between both of you must have been so overwhelming on both parts, both for you initially thinking you were losing your mind, then going to following the flow, because how you've just described it was almost like your curiosity and your sense of knowing just seemed to take over.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what I'm going to do.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: I feel this lump, I'm going to start moving the energy, and having it validated back to you then.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: How can you like your immediate, I guess, interaction with that person immediately afterwards when they started moving their fingers?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: What did you feel?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: What was your exchange between the two of you?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, in that she was emotional, and I was I I went to this almost shock.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was like I, if I can best describe it, like my whole world was shaking on the inside.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was like, whoa, because I never knew anyone, I never heard of anything like this before.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: So to have such a direct experience where I had a tangible experience and she had a tangible experience.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: And when I work on people, the change is very fast.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, someone can have 10 years of chronic pain and it just goes, you know, it can be in seconds.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, I've witnessed this many times now, but that was the first.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: And and I I think on the side of the the person experiencing it is also a big experience because pain doesn't usually just disappear in seconds without any major interaction.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, it was a big moment.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: I still know this lady, actually.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: So um, and and her, and she's still to this day better, you know.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's my bit people often ask me how long does it last?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the best I can can tell you is 27 years for this one person.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: So, um, but it was a big experience, and I think because this is such an you know, it is such a misunderstood area, and even at the levels people kind of understand it, it it often sits well below its true potential, you know.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so um that's why it is shocking in a way, because this is not something we're just used to.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas if we were just getting healed as children and used to it, it would be quite normal.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I think these experiences are they're pretty interesting, you know, they're still foreign to to so many people.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, 99 probably 0.9% of people have not had an experience like that that I have regularly, and also that um this woman had that day, you know.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: So it was pretty uh it was pretty big.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: I would say I I I would say that it traumatized me, even though it was a beautiful thing for her.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: It took me years really from there to even process that probably was traumatic.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't easy because what happened was it I sort of it freaked me out a bit.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then the reaction people had when I, you know, from my family and friends and everything.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: You can't just know someone for 18 years and they call you and they say, Hey, I just healed someone and I'm you know, I'm struggling with it.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: They don't have the ability to also cope with that conversation because it's foreign to them too.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: It so much so that the immediate thing is that you've lost your mind or you're crazy, or you know, if they if they know you well enough, they know that you're not lying, but um, but but to them, that experience is still, you know, their view would be very heavily weighted with doubt, you know.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's what I experienced early on is that not only was I doing this thing that that was profoundly good for people, it was surrounded by by a lot of doubt from anyone who would hear it secondhand.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the hardest part.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: The hardest part about healing people is uh the response that that others have, you know, it's it the healing is pretty straightforward, but the but the societal uh misunderstanding of this area is the is the heaviest weight.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it is not easy.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: People I have people say to me, my my whole, you know, since I've done this, I wish I could do this.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, it's all very well to wish it.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: And and yes, it's beautiful to wish it, and I wish I wish it too that everyone could do it, but it's not as easy uh as as it is um uh, you know, beautiful.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's and that's been why I've you know, I at that uh very early on, I can't tell you exactly when, but it was it was it was within the first few months of me doing this that I decided that I had to fix the problem that I saw immediately with this whole area.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: I saw immediately that you know, problem number one is that this exists and no one knows it.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, no no one really, very few people, let's as close to no one as it gets.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: And this is before like Reiki was really this is 1999, so like Reiki wasn't like in hospitals at that point, things like this, and that's still Reiki as a generalization is still not at the level that a natural healer is like me.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Reiki people can be very good, but Reiki as a whole isn't it's yeah, yes.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: So so, but anyway, back then, you know, the problems I saw were no one knows this exists, but it is amazing, and people should know.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: And there are no opportunities for people like me to go and learn, to get employed, to um to get supported, like other talents.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's why I made the decisions I made back then.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna fix this, you know.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna, I'm gonna demonstrate, I'm gonna put myself forward to be studied, I'm gonna do everything I can to try and fix this problem that I saw as so enormous because it's so good.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's such a great medicine that I think there are people that are, you know, I don't just think it, there are billions of people that are suffering that this medicine could be helpful for, but there's no real mechanism for it existing within the the the world, especially the mainstream, but even generally, because you've got the mainstream which outright just doesn't even know it exists, yeah.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: Then you've got the niches that that are into this stuff where you guys sit and where where where I guess I sit too by accident, like I didn't, you know, yeah, yeah.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but even in the niches, you to find people who are extraordinary extraordinarily good at it is very difficult.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: So even if you're interested to find the people, it's almost impossible.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: So so whether you're uninterested or whether you're interested, the same problem exists is that you could see someone like me on television or read a study or whatever, and then go, I'd like that, but then good luck.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean where do I go from here?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you're in this space and you've got arthritis in your hands.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, yeah, and it is, and I do very much believe in our own ability to self-heal.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think what I really love, Charlie, about you putting yourself forward.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, here's some of the, you know, the issues that I'm seeing, but you put yourself forward to have case studies done, to have medical studies done, to be surrounded by doctors, to, you know, almost have the medical field pick apart and analyze what you've done.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you've put yourself out to do that.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it is, you know, that's that in itself, having that amount of scrutiny around you.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I know there, like, I mean, I guess the the one study in particular, I think it was a hospital in Brooklyn in New York, like, I mean, uh Lutheran hospital, that huge study, and having a room surrounded by doctors, everybody wondering, you know, as as the ripple effect of the work that you were doing was starting to spread.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just trying to imagine what it must have been like for you to be in that moment where, you know, did it impact how you were healing people?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: And even, like I guess for our listeners who some of them may not be familiar with your work, the breadth of things that you were actually healing at that point in time.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like you were under a microscope, so to speak, um, being studied.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like just kind of paint the picture for us, what it was like being under the microscope in that way.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: It was, it was uh, it was pretty um, it was pretty intense.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it was I was I had wanted to do something like that since I was 18.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: I got to do it the that first time that you mentioned was I think it was 2013.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: So that was 15 years it took me to get my first opportunity.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not that's almost without a day of not trying.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: So that that tells you how how long.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the first time.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: And and in that instance, I was um asked by the head of research at this hospital, as you mentioned, he was like, What do you want to do with, you know, like what are you where are you trying to get to?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: I said, I really want to do studies.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: He said, Look, you really need to do a double blind study to do the gold standard of science.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: But and the trouble I was having was I I had talked to professors and universities, and and everyone just said, Look, even if you can do this, and this is if they would even talk to me, um, no one will fund it.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so to do a double blind study, you know, you're talking hundreds of thousands and and more, you know, in the millions sometimes of funding, but no one wants to fund this.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so he said, Why don't if you want, we could set up a case series where we can see how you go within a hospital environment and see how it works within our normal flows, and it won't cost any money except for my expenses, which I covered.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we will just do it in the normal course of our medical practice.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: And what we'll do is we'll we'll we we'll make a protocol that you'll work on everyone that our interventions aren't helping.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: So people in pain where the painkillers aren't helping them, or infections where the antibiotics aren't working, and so on.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: And and so I was like, absolutely, I'm very happy to do this.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so um, you know, went through all those processes and and and approvals.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so then I, you know, I and I flew to New York, ended up in this hospital in Brooklyn, and and I spent, I think it was almost two weeks going in every day.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and you know, they the doctors would do their rounds, and I would, I would turn up and I would wait, and I would talk to like the head doctors in each area.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: And every day for two weeks, they were like, they were quite polite to me, they were very polite to me.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but they would just say, you know, we've we've we've done the rounds, we don't really feel like there's anyone suitable for you today.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was trying to be um, you know, I was being very patient and just being okay.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then I would catch the train like an hour an hour each way, and I got to the two-week mark or thereabouts, and I finally said to this one doctor, I said, Listen, if they are in the hospital, they are for me.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: Just give, please, just give me a chance.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: Let me show you what I do, and then you can decide what's for me and what isn't.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: And and so he said, Oh, and he sort of thought about it.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, Okay, well, there's a woman on the next floor, uh, and she she's an older woman, she doesn't speak English, and she's got this pain in her neck, and she keeps coming back all the time.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: We we haven't been able to help her.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, great.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: So he took me up to the next floor, and I it probably took me 20 seconds and to have her pain free.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: And he was like, Wow, yeah, and so after that, and this is all document.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: You can probably actually see her case if you you see you you'll see neck pain and how she must have been 60 or 70, I forget, but um so then after that, that doctor was like, Whoa, okay.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so he took me within a few days, probably to the to 20 patients, of which I had a dramatic effect on probably 18 of them.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point, it started it really started to change everything within that environment because I had doctors coming in to watch me work on people.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: I had I had doctors coming to take me to other areas.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like once I got on a you know, enough of of a of a group of patients, then everything sort of went my way.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, students were coming up to talk to me, doctors that were really um almost upset that I was in the hospital in the beginning joined studies, like literally joined studies.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Incredibility just starts to build.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: And there was a lot, you know, like this is the this isn't an alternate hospital.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: This is a a very large, yeah, public hospital.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's a it's a poorer population.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they it is in no way alternate.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so yeah, you can imagine me in a hospital, you know, going around.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't like the it wasn't a place with crystals hanging around and dreamcatchers.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: This was a this is a this is a hospital, you know.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so the environment was very um uh you know, not an environment where you would see someone like me doing work like I I was doing.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it went very well.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: That was the published study, and it went so well they, you know, they invited me back another time to do um, you know, another uh another series of cases, which was good.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: And and it went so well that even last week I was in New York working in the clinic of one of the doctors who was working at the hospital at that time.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: So wow.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: But but the pressure on me to give you um, you know, the best I can describe it is imagine if I'm an athlete and you know, I'm at the Olympics and I get one race, and if I don't win, I'm a fraud.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that I just didn't win, it's not that I had a bad day, it's that that I'm a bad person, that it's now documented, that this guy is full of shit, and and I was at year 15 into my you know, into my hopes and dreams, you know, and and and hadn't really had any other apart from a lot of practice.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a very practiced healer, you know, but I hadn't, you know, that was my first big opportunity.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: So the pressure on me um was enormous, you know, it had I done well, which I did, um it it had it that ended up with a whole lot of other good events that you know that's why you've heard of me, to be honest.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but had I not gone well, it would have it would have arguably been very hard for me to come back from that.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and such a big responsibility.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can only just imagine the the responsibility that you carry on your shoulders when you are attempting to get this gift out into the world to actually make a genuine difference, and every single corner is filled with obstacles and blockages and people that are going to judge and have yeah, yeah, it's because it's like the way I would describe it is that like if you had a painkiller that did what I do, so you know, in that hospital study, you know, I I worked on I I feel like it was 50 different things, I forget.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's written, it's in published with something like that, and I and I dramatically helped 80% of them.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, or almost to zero symptoms for for 80% of the people.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: So if you had a painkiller or a pill that did that, yeah, that that pill would be probably one of the most valuable things commercially that could could ever happen.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I've been doing this at that point for a long time, and at this point for a very long time, 27 years.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so for me, I know the value of this thing that I'm trying to give away.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to be like, hey, well, this is a real thing that can help people.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I I suppose that it's very strange to have this thing that you know has this value.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I keep showing it.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: I've done it in hospitals, I've done it on television, I've done it on the news, I do it, I demonstrate it all the time.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: So Instagram lives, I've been on.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know it again, but I don't really mind.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: So and so but but the world almost doesn't want it, you know, it doesn't know because there's this this aversion to it.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's like that it's bad, or they say things like it's just a placebo.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, but if I went into a hospital and had a placebo effect on 80% of people, uh, where I dropped their symptoms from you know, from hospital level, whatever that is, to you know, in many cases down to nothing, um, then then we should be lining up for this placebo.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's the power of the mind, then, yes.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's whatever.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't, it actually doesn't matter.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: The truth is that like what people do is they try and diminish this area, not just mine, but also um pretty much all complimentary medicine, to say things like it's just a placebo, but but the the term the terminology is incorrect.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: It should be it should be set said actually in the opposite way that it it's a placebo, like that's so cool.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like oh, you you're better, you're that pain you had is gone.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: What happened?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, uh a placebo fixed it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: What that's amazing.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: You mean something that had no side effects and no risks fixed you from this big problem?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's so cool.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, not that I believe that this area is a placebo, although I think all medical interventions utilize the placebo.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's a cooperative thing with the body anyway.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: But but regardless, like if someone like me and others who are doing similar things are walking around able to deliver the placebo at this high rate, that's wonderful.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just a placebo, it's like a the placebo.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's like what I think is so cool about it is the placebo is the internal medical uh system that we have.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it's the it's the thing that the human body has, its own ability to heal itself based on stimulus that's created that, and it's so cool.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, placebo affects, you know, 30 to you know, sometimes 50, 60 percent of people, uh, and can can can outdo some operations, most pain medicine, like it's so cool, and yet we've we've diminished it into this the only thing we think of it is is the benchmark, as which anything that's below it is bad, but it's like no hold on a second, anytime someone heals is good, and and the body's ability to do it itself, like it's amazing.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like we should be celebrating it.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: So even though I still am doing a lot, like I'm currently being studied here in America, um, versus placebo.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so we'll find out if I am a placebo or not a placebo at some point in probably a year or so, once we're finished, once it's finished, I should say I'm the I'm the sub I'm the guinea pig, not the I'm not the university.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but regardless, like this idea that placebo is used to slap around this industry as a negative is just so silly.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so true.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So true.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: I have to ask, and I'm sure you've done this, because this is uh you've got so many challenges happening here.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Has there been that time that you just sit there and go, like, why me?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why me?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you um put that, you know, you've you've brought this gift into the world.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Have you met now other people that you feel um can awaken this gift?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: And is it something that we can all do?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just anything that I guess you've found.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's a few questions you asked there.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: The the why have I thought why me?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um I you know, I I don't I I I mean I actually believe, and this is true, I believe this is why I was born.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: To I do I deeply believe that I was put here to bring this stuff to the world, and that's why I've been willing to suffer the the reputational damage and the attacks and all the things because I I deeply believe it's what I'm meant to do.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: And if I didn't believe it, I probably wouldn't be doing it and putting myself out there under scrutiny, but I I do believe that, and and I and I think that I believe that, you know, for going back many years, 27 years, but today I I feel like that's kind of been proven to probably be true.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: I've made it quite far under in in very hostile circumstances.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: And the work I'm currently doing here, like I mentioned, I'm being studied by a really big university, and soon later this year, a huge government um or huge wing of the government.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: So um I'm doing things that that makes sense given I thought that that's what I was here to do.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so this kind of is happening now.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um so of course they've sometimes have been very hard, but I I have still deeply felt that I have to just keep going, you know.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but to to the the next question you said is have I met other people?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that one of the things that I would like to fix within this industry is that, you know, because the placebo effect is so strong, I mentioned that you can, you know, placebo can can even compete with some of the best pain medications.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: So it's very powerful.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so what that does is it means that there's a lot of practitioners out there that that are just a placebo.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh when I or are a placebo, not just a placebo.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but but there are but there are practitioners that are that are a lot better that that I think trend above the placebo.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so the problem currently is it's very hard to find, you know, find these diamonds in the rough, you know, a needle in in the haystack of the the millions of Reiki master certificates, how many of them can actually have this profound effect?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: I would I would argue that it's a fraction of the people who believe that they can.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: And the problem with that is even though the they're well-intentioned, the people who are sort of more having this, um they are making it hard to find the truly talented.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a problem because the truly talented really do do a lot better than the ones that aren't.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: So, and so a big part of my work has, and I'm in the middle of this at the moment, is we have built a platform to test people for real talent.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: So to separate them from, you know, hitting these placebo marks to to going well above it, people who can do what I did and go into a hospital and have this big effect on people.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so I've built a platform which we started building, uh, I guess it's been a couple of years now, and we we did, we tested it, and we have seen um some people who who did quite well in the platform, and we've just now started to build a bigger platform which will which will test uh people for real talent and then give them uh employment or or uh income opportunities, I should say.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: And more importantly, is give people if someone sees someone like me on on somewhere or someone else doing good work out there, that they'll have a place they can come and trust the practitioners that actually tested.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the biggest problem with the industry is that right now is um is that you have you know an industry that where there's a lot of people teaching, most of the teachers probably don't have real talent, some will, most won't.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: So that's like you can't really teach well from that place, I would say, from for a start.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: But then what happens is they say, and and and you and this is what you said earlier, Liz, can everyone do this?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: And the answer is they can't, um, or you wouldn't be talking to me now.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't be any true, you know.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: You would you I would be uninteresting.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I I think that the issue is that the way these these modalities work is unfortunately that they say everyone come and learn, everyone can do it, everyone gets the same certificate.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: We're not saying, you know, thank you so much for learning with us.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have the talent, no certificate for you, which is what would happen in any other thing, right?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: Unless you're not gonna go to medical.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: The practical application and the evidence.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna go to medical school and fail every exam and get the certificate.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so the exam in this area would be well, can you do it?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have this impact on people that that where we could say you actually do have an ability?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: And and so because that doesn't exist, it it has caused a problem.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably, to be honest, the biggest problem that I face.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's not so much the medical industry.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's the fact that it's it's it's so hard to find the the real talent for people who need it.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: So my the platform we've made is designed to do this, to to test people rapidly, find people who who do have this very big effect, uh, and then and then make sure we're linking people who have arthritis in their hand with people who do have this, you know, this very big effect on people.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think for anyone listening and feeling that they can do something or they're looking for an outlet, it is the NE app, E-N-N N-I-E.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Am I correct in spelling that, Charlie?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but on uh I I think it's also so even if there are people who are out there who have the talent, when you consider the obstacles that you have gone through, you're, you know, you've been a way shower now to show people here's how it can be done, and you have built that trust, that credibility within the medical community as well, which I think is so important because while, as an example, if I was someone who believed, yes, I have this talent, I can, you know, I can actually heal people, and even if I'm getting good results, I may not have the wherewithal or the presence or the stamina to be able to go up against the system the way, the way you have done for years and years and years.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I I the word wage hour keeps coming to me for you, that you're so much a wage over in this space that NAT is allowing other people to, I don't want to say ride on your coattails, but you're bringing that forward for people.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, what I've done is so I I mentioned that to do my first study, which was was um, you know, that really gave me the the big opportunities that I've had post that.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: That took me 15 years under all sorts of pressure, a huge risk.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: What we've created that people will be able to utilize is the equivalent to a study.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: So you'll be able to, without suffering the way I have, all the time, all the effort, all the knockbacks, all the criticisms.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: This app is designed like a study.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: So you'll be able to go in and you will be able to find out if you do have talent.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: So you instead of thinking you do, you'll find out if you do, which is not a bad thing.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then, but it'll it's literally run like a study.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: So we the way it will work is that if it's if the if the platform says you have talent, you have talent.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: And that that will be validating in ways that is almost impossible to do because, like, you know, I've only just scraped my way through that.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: So we're giving people everything that I didn't have.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but on top of that, it's anonymous.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: So there's no embarrassment, there's no risk, there's no reputational risk.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: You get to go and see if you have talent.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: And if you do, then we'll also give people the ability to earn money and and without having to market themselves and having also having to somehow show that oh, if I do have a talent, how do I show that I'm better than the the the Reiki master who's the better marketer but doesn't have more talent?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: So at the moment, it's a mart, the best marketers win, the most charismatic people win.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm only interested in a world where the best talent wins.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: The best, the very best talent, because the best talent will do the the best for the people who need it.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: The and they're the obviously the people who are suffering.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: So this basically, this device essentially will do everything I've done in 27 years, people will be able to do in in in in hours.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, on top of that, we're giving away my teaching for free as part of it.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: So people can learn from me, or they can do other modalities.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying my way is the only way, but they can learn from me or go and learn somewhere, test their talent, get it validated, and then get work all from the comfort of their own home.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if I had had that uh when I was 18 years old, it would have meant I discover my ability.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: Someone says, Hey, there's this app called any, you should try it.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: I go in, I can do it.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: Next thing I've got a job.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like that would have been a lot shorter than what I've been through.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: So and that validation is not unimportant because it does feel it's it's a it is a hard, it is a mentally hard thing to do.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so what's cool about the platform is that that validation, once you have it, then it doesn't matter what other people say or think, you know, it's not in your head, it's not in the form, you're independently validated.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: So like our data is all been um uh the way we critique healers has all been um set up by a university.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not me deciding, it's a you know, it's it's a university creating all the metrics, they're running it.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's I I I that they happen to be the same people who are studying me, and so they've had a a head start in that they've seen, you know, how I work and um and all the things.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: So that they're that we're basically setting up the data where they are, um, to validate healers at the level of scrutiny that a scientific study is.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like it's real validation.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um that right now um I can tell you that to to get to the point of having that, it's it's as close to impossible as it gets because of the the money hurdles and also the courage it takes and to perform under pressure, you know.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh there's a lot that you have to have, and I must have something you know um very wrong with me to have continued to do it, you know.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're definitely an on a bit of entrepreneur in your bed.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's more than an entrepreneur wouldn't have spent this long, you know, it's a long time.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: I feel Charlie, I said this to Liz offline.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: We, you know, obviously we you know research for any of our guests and we always kind of set our intentions coming on.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that was in my mind was around, I guess, your spiritual or psychic gifts.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, it was like I just seeing so much clear cognizance and clear um sentience in the way you describe it, or at least in my butt, almost your sense of knowing, clear cognizance.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: If you didn't have this true belief right down into your bones about what you're doing, there, I don't believe there's any possibility that we would be sitting chatting to you here today.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: There's no way that you would be creating this platform for other healers to come through in such a credible and validated way.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, it just stood out as that um, I guess, spiritual gift or clairsentient gift, that Claire gift that you have, that if you didn't have that sense of knowing, and even going back to the beginning of the interview when you were um describing about yes, you thought you were going crazy, but then almost like your curiosity and that no, it's like I know something's happening here.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go, you know, keep doing what I'm doing.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Is is the word clair, um like claircognizance, that no sense of knowing or clairsentience, is that how you ever describe some of the things you do?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: Or does that make sense to you how I'm describing it?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: I yeah, I mean, I would I wouldn't use the spiritual lingo because it's not natural to me, but I would say that yes, I have always had this knowing that has kept pulling me forward and making me do things that everyone has told me not to do.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I was told, I mean, I was told to never tell people I can heal people uh from the very beginning because of how people would react.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: Then I was told, you know, when I got the opportunities for the hospital uh study, I was told not to do it.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they'll the doctors will never tell the truth, even if you can do it.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I I got every I got told every reason not to do it.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: Even, you know, early on when I wanted to, you know, when I was sort of fighting my way through um trying to find my kind of place or my path with disability, you know, my dad would be like, you need to go and and study like massage or or hypnotherapy, you need to hide behind something credible.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I'm not, I refused.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: I I would be like crying, I'd be like 18 years old, like screaming at my dad, you know, being like, I am not, I uh this is true.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I am not going to pretend I'm something that I'm not.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want and this is what I do, and I need to, I need to stick to it.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: And on top of that, you know, as I was sort of struggling my way in the early years um with doing these things to people, having this effect, and then all the negativity that would come with it, you know, at different times I met with different like Reiki masters and different kind of healers, and they would often um, you know, I remember one time uh a lady who's a Reiki master, um, my I was living in St Kilda in in Melbourne, and there was a little, I don't know if it's still there, probably not.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: It was a long time ago, but there was like a a like it was in the uh uh it was in like an arcade where the col where the coals are.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know exactly what you mean.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Ackland Arcade.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: So there used to be at least um like a little spiritual crystals, and they had a room at the back where they did like Reiki and whatever.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: And my best friend and I went there just to check it out.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_03: So and I Would do this from time to time to sort of see if I could meet anyone I could feel like I could relate to.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think like once a week they had like a night where where people who would Reiki practitioners would practice for free on on people who could just come.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so I went there, I kind of timidly showed showed up, and I was watching them, you know, do their thing.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then I kind of started working on people and having this big effect that I have.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: And afterwards, they ever you know we're sort of sitting in a in a circle, and they were everyone's asking me questions, which is, you know, like, how do I do this and what am I want to do with it?
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I said at the time, I was like, and I don't remember how, I mean, how old was I at this point?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, somewhere in my 20s, I forget.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I said that, you know, I want to be studied and I want to change the world.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like I want to, I want people to know this stuff is real.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: And the Reiki master that was leading the the pack was like, Well, that's just your ego.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: You'll just want to, you just want to show show off.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, I was a bit like, you know, it was my ego felt a bit bruised by that because I was like, Well, I just think this is really important.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like, people don't like I just walked in there and I, you know, my my ability was well above theirs, and yeah, and I had seen this a lot, so you know, but that would so I was kind of told off, you know, and so I had to, and this happened quite a lot to me.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: I was consistently, people were trying to level me when I was because I had this big picture of what I wanted to do, you know, and and but because I was trying to fix the problem that I had when I discovered it, was that there was no, there was no pathways, there was no jobs, there was no, you know, nothing.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: So, but right through my career, especially in the early days, I would have people who were sort of experts in this field, which I still today wouldn't call myself an expert in this field because um because I don't believe anyone is, to be honest with you.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think some people can be very good at it, but I don't believe anyone is truly an expert in it because I think it's sort of very beyond our own ability to comprehend.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, most of the experts that I've met can't really heal people that well.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: So that so it's not um, but that's the sort of stuff I had to contend with.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: My own industry, I suppose, um, trying to level me and tell me I was wrong and tell me, and so that was one of the biggest battles I had over time.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: That I was second guessing this knowing, like, am I just trying to show off?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_03: Am I, you know, or like, am I a bad person?
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: Am I, you know, am I all these things that were getting projected onto me?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I still had the knowing that would keep propelling me forward.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: But not star.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I I definitely always had that question in my mind, even before I entered the hospital that for that first study.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was worried that like, am I meant to be doing this?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like it does does the ability want me to be in this environment?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_03: Is it going to suddenly not work because it I'm not meant to do this?
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and but like I said, that was based on a lot of people projecting onto me uh these I these ideas that it was wrong.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, here I am.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: I I I've made it to the other side.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: I certainly don't question it anymore at all.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, no, well done.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: What a journey.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you've since wrote your book, You Are the Healer, which I just started to listen to on Spotify, and we'll definitely share all of the links for that.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Who is this book for?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us a little bit about it.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think the book is for anyone who has a brain.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so everybody, basically.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: That may not be everybody.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: No, so um, so yeah, if you don't have a brain, just don't buy it.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: But if you do, it's very good.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that like because AI, I think I've had an unusual experience in that, you know, to to have an ability that is so kind of ostracized, and then have this drive I've had to put myself in very difficult situations, um, you know, very public and under a lot of scrutiny, and a very a day doesn't go by where I'm not, you know, I get very positive and very negative experiences, I guess.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: And and because of that, um, I've there there's no real, in especially in this current world, there's nothing to set you up to handle that.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: It is not a normal experience.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_03: And and so what that's done is that in parallel to me propelling forward and bit by bit doing these bigger, bigger and bigger things where I've had to represent energy medicine at the level I do and mentally also survive it and stay hopefully, you know, a balanced person on my journey and not either let the negativity stop me or the or the positivity make me into a terrible human.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: I've had to really overcome my own inner world and traumas from even my career, but but from childhood and and learn to navigate very hard things to to and in that process, um, you know, bit by bit I've really learned to understand like how my mind works and or how my consciousness works.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess over time, kind of brick by brick, I was I was learning and understanding, like instead of being kind of like at the mercy of my mind and at the mercy of being overwhelmed at different points or um or detached or um you know anxious or you know, full of fear, or all these different things that can get in the way of where we want to go, particularly fear, probably in my case, could have been a problem.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: Learning the way these emotions work um and being able to process emotion efficiently as our sort of bodies intend for it to be done.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, eventually I had a book in me because I knew that if I can learn to stay uh peaceful with what I've done, um, then this is going to be very good for lots of other people, you know, who are who are struggling with life.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people, if they're honest, um, you know, no matter what's going on in their ex their outer world, will will sometimes even constantly or from time to time have have real inner struggles where they're using um different methods from medications to distractions to alcohol to um, you know, I don't know, television to sex, to drugs, to whatever to to try and and feel good on the inside.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they're constantly having to use methods, tapping themselves and doing all these different things because oh yeah, if I tap myself, my anxiety goes for an hour or a day, you know, and that may be true and that's good, but why is the anxiety coming all the time?
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_03: And is the right thing to do to be getting rid of the anxiety?
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: Is that does that work?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I would challenge anyone that is listening to this to answer honestly.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_03: If you are someone who is suffering at the hands of your own inner emotions from time to time or constantly, have any of the methods you've worked ended up fixing it, or have you worked out out how to either walk away from something that's triggering you, or have you got methods that give you a break?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I think most people would say, at best, I have methods that give me a break.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, probably your audience uses the healthiest methods they can, but depending on how big the overwhelm is, will depend on what they the methods they use to try and manage it.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: But a lot of people are suffering, and and the truth is that the overwhelm that we feel, the anxiety or the overwhelming fear, or when we the people who fall in love with people too quickly and that's overwhelming and they scare the people off, like the the emotions that are out of control are uh are not out of control because you're broken, they're out of control because you don't know how to process the emotion properly.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_03: So we we are living in this world where we think, oh, I'm getting all this anxiety, there's something wrong with me, or I'm too scared there's something wrong with me.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a real misunderstanding that there's nothing wrong with you.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: There's something wrong with the way that you're trying to deal with this part of you.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_03: And because you're doing it incorrectly, the this this part or the experience you have remains in overwhelm.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're constantly saying things like, I wish I didn't feel this, I wish I didn't have this anxiety, I wish I didn't have this fear, I wish when I get into relationships I wouldn't be so full on and scare the person off.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so what we're doing essentially is we're saying that I don't like this part of me, I don't like that part of me, I don't like this part of me.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, and I won't go on about it for too long, or I'm gonna tell you the whole book, but essentially, you know, the idea of self-love, which most people think they know, but they don't.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: So self-love people think as, well, I get myself a massage and I feed myself well, and that is loving for sure.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_03: Or if something's uncomfortable, I walk away from it.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: That they think this is self-love, you know, and but what it really is self-love in actual the actual truth of it is to love every part of myself, even in the uncomfortable ones.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: And when we don't love ourselves, so if you imagine yourself and all the different parts of you, there's angry Charlie, happy Charlie, Charlie in love, Charlie hungry, Charlie fear.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_03: So these are all like this is me, you see one person, but I'm actually made up of a whole lot of different aspects of me.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: And what we do is we try to curate it and go, I don't like it when I'm angry.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like it when I'm sad, I don't like it.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_03: So we've actually rejecting all these parts of ourselves.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_03: And what happens when you reject one is the part ends up in this overwhelm state.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: So when I feel fear, if I've rejected fear as a part of myself I don't like it, it comes when it arrives because something scary is happening, because I've rejected it, it arrives in this overwhelm state, which is super intense.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: But it was because we've rejected it.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so because we're not taught that we have to love all these parts, because they're important parts of our ability to function in the world, fear helps me cross the road safely.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_03: It helps me make sure that if my son's running towards a swimming pool, I'm ready to dive in.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, fear is a wonderful thing, but we we've rejected so many of our own parts that we end up in all this overwhelm all the time.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's what the book is about.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's about how to take these parts of us that are out of our conscious control that we call broken and to bring them back within our conscious control so they act as tools to help us navigate the world and not as weapons that have been turned on us where we're now suffering them and now we're pathologized into there's something wrong with me.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I wrote this book because I did it for me.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_03: I learned this through my own experiences.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think part of it came as part of my gift, you know, the healing ability, I think, carries this knowledge with it as well.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so ultimately I actually sidetracked my my career, which is the energy healing, um, just for a moment to quickly write the book.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so, because I knew that if if people read this, it's going to make people realize that that they haven't been given the the manual for how our emotion works.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_03: And instead, we're just trying to combat it all the time and trying to control the outer world so we don't suffer on the inside, you know.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so, and we see this is a big problem in the current world.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_03: You need to you need to call me a certain thing or I will suffer, you know.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, we we're we're I'm I don't agree with your opinion, so you should be cancelled.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: Instead of just not caring, we're trying to control everything so we can be at peace.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_03: Your political views are different to mine, I don't want anything to do with you.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: And that's because that view triggers something in us that puts us in overwhelm.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_03: And because we don't know how to fix the overwhelm, I have to get rid of the stimulus.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but actually, what we need to do is learn how to control the overwhelm uh or how to integrate it.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I gave you a big answer, then I know, but oh, I can just imagine everyone sat there now going, okay, give me the link.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, because it's it's it's is applicable to everyone.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: We all need this, and our and even we think of our kids like as a parent, if we can gift ourselves with building our capacity to hold emotion and to integrate these different parts of ourselves.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_02: The gift that passes on to the next generation is phenomenal.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, get stuck into the book absolutely, and and apply it like it is the practical application, then of not just reading it and understanding it intellectually, it's you know, really, really start to integrate it into your life and that ripple effect then to your to your kids, to your family, to your community.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's huge.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think what happens is especially you obviously have a I uh you know a a community of people who you know are spiritual or or are seeking that as a as a as an important part of their lives.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_03: And the truth is that and again, I think most people listening to this would would reluctantly agree to this.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_03: Most people are either stuck in thinking about the future or the past, you know, imagining a positive future uh in order to feel better with the present moment, or reliving things from the past and beating themselves up, or even reliving things from the past and they're positive, but on both ends, really not able to be present.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it's in the the present moment as we sit here together where where we basically are able to process all of our emotion.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_03: And most people have left the present moment, you know, and and and and unfortunately in the spiritual world, things the way we you know we're taught things like a mantras um manifestation is like if so, if I feel terrible and then I'm trying to have a mantra, so if I feel, I don't know, if I feel not worthy, classic spiritual thing to say, um, and I and I want to say, well, no, I am worthy, I am worthy, I am worthy.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_03: What happens is we're out of the present moment because we're thinking that's not where that's not the present moment.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then what we're trying to do is we're trying to take one program which is running in our little computer here, and we're trying to change it to another instead of addressing why is why is this program running?
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like what and how do I how do I stop this instead of having to put band-aids over all these out of control thoughts?
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, when you learn to do that, you can be in the present moment, which is the the most powerful place you can be.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_03: When it whether it's you if you want to do work like mine or you want to, you know, be able to navigate this world successfully, um, you need to be able to be present.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: And but to be present, you have to be willing to feel hard things.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because it because because life is hard sometimes, but that's what people are trying to avoid.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of people are like, I just want to feel good.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna meditate to feel good, or I'm gonna take a drug, or I'm gonna we always are trying to feel good, but the reality is we we have this range of emotions that are beautiful and comforting and loving, and we have another range, which is this is fear, this is hate, this is, and so so it's normal for us to not always feel good, but we're always trying to feel good.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: And that's one of the biggest mistakes that we've made as humans is this idea that we should always feel good, you know, but we shouldn't, because sometimes my dad died, I should feel sad.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_03: I have a I have a I had a I said something mean to someone, I should feel shame.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I should apologize based on that, you know.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm this is I had a near miss, a car nearly ran me over.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I should feel fear, you know, so um, or shaken or whatever it is.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is normal, but we're always trying to leave when feelings aren't good and go to feelings that are better instead of going, well, no, but this is normal.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where all the trouble comes from.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: So true.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I could ask you so many questions, Charlie.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh honestly, thank you so much um just for your time today and for sharing your gifts with the world.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like the book is just such a great way for anyone listening just to you know learn what you know and to obviously be able to apply it in our own lives.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, Charlie, thank you.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: We will share everything that you're doing, all of your amazing work, and um, yeah, it's been a pleasure.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's great to meet both of you.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:01:52
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• 1:02:02
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• 1:02:06
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