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The Zizians · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Went true in trance that I'm true. I'm a checkup
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: with true.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Than Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm your
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: host Adam Todd Brown joining me as guest co host
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: this week. John Lewis is here. How's it going?
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Maniss up? Pissed off half of the internet with my
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Boondocks video.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: What's their problem? Uh?
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: My take on it? I dropped the video. I changed
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: the title with the original title was the Boondocks doesn't
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: care about black people. It was just like a full
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: retrospective about the head and anti blackness and classes and
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: of the show. But it's almost a two hour video.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: It's on the good side, it's performing pretty well, so
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I needed that for my channel two hours.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Goddamn, that's a movie.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah no, but people love long video essays if they're interesting.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: So it's the former. Will this shit hit a probably
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: a hundred dollars about the end of the week.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Nice, that's awesome. So we are talking about some shit
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: that people have wanted us to cover on this show
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: since it happened, which I think the thing people don't
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: realize with stories like this, and this is an exception,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: but a lot of times when something like this breaks,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: there's not a lot to talk about. Sometimes you need
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: to wait and let a story develop and breathe before
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: you cover it. With this one, there's enough to talk about.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: So we're getting in early, but it's not resolved or anything.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: It's ongoing. John, you said you hadn't heard anything about
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: the Zizzians.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: No, but I read the notes and it sounds like
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: what Christians in the eighties dot Dungeons and Dragons was,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: from my understanding, bunch of crazy people with swords cosplaying
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: the shit. I'm so confused. I listened to the audio
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: of that one long ass article and read all the
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: bullet points. It's so much going on in these names.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's crazy names happening here. There's a lot of crime,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of murder, and it all seems like it's
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: not for any purpose. This group has I guess, a
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: ideology of sorts. But this isn't a Luigi Mangione thing.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: There's no murders here that you're gonna be like, fuck yeah,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: out there fighting the good fight. No, this is just
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're just like killing people who they come
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: into contact with.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, And at first I thought they were
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: like trying to start a cult. But it just sounds
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: like a bunch of people that were in there weird
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: shit that met online or something.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, I guess. I mean, if you're
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: calling yourself Zizians, then you're a cult because that I
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: think that is maybe the dividing line between cult and
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: just really good friends is do you all call yourself
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: something named after one friend in particular? If not, otherwise
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: you're all just cool, You're all just hanging out. But yeah,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: this is a cult. The name Zizians comes from the
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: group leader, the awesomely named Jack Amedeis ziz Lesoda. Seems
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: like Jack is just going by ziz these days.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I wish they had pictures a test. Wait, I think
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: it was was it picture? I think it might have
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: been pictures a tech. Oh yeah, there's pictures articles. Yeah,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think, remember what these people look like.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: This is such a weird case and it seems like
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: just no point to it.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I tell you what, they look like. They look angry.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: They all look really fucking angry in their mugshots. And hey,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: it's twenty twenty five. Who's not angry? You know?
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Also, with a mugshot.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I will say there's a few different articles
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: out there about this case Liz Zizz. I want to
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: say Liz every fucking time I say the name Ziz Lisoda,
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: it should be Liz Za Soda. That would make me
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: more comfortable. But Ziz Lesoda is a transgender woman. Depending
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: on what article you read, pronouns are either they them
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: or she her. It seems like she her, though two
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: of the three sf Gate articles I read said it
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: was she her.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: So it's as if Gate San Francisco. Yeah, yeah, okay,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: as I was wondered, I've never I've never heard of
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: that before.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're a pretty well respected Bay area outlet. I
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: lean on them a lot for local news roundup stuff, and.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: So Jeff Bezo buys the out Yeah.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: So Zizz popped up online in twenty sixteen, writing a
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: blog covering things like gender identity, technology, and human cognition.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Acted a niche audience at first among people interested in
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: things like philosophy, AI and radical social theories, and those
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: ideas evolved into a more complex ideology attracted more followers,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: eventually turned into the Zizian movement. I still don't really
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: know what these people want. Yeah.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't clear through any of these notes what
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: exactly they wanted it just because before that it just
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: sounds like, I mean, that's that's basically just a niche
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: YouTube right now, Like have to have my views come
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: from people that are in the shit like that. Literally,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: that's like brand tube. It said, we all just don't
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: meet up together. I'm like, what did you all want?
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And we just covered the Unibomber Manifesto, and at
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: least that racist fuck was clear about what he wanted,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: which was we gotta shut down industrial society because I
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: don't know, black people are talking too much or something.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: That guy was bad times.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, listen to that episode.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: That shit blew me away. For years, people were like, man,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: the Unibomber Manifesto, it's better than you think. Is fucking
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: racist ramblings? God damn.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: And it's how interesting getn to fucking manifesto be anyway,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: It's it just sounds like some shit just want to
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: be a person that had way too much caffeine at
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: four in the morning writing.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Have you ever read the Christopher Dorner Manifesto?
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: No, I don't read any manifesto.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: I mean his is just funny. Mostly because he does shit,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: like at one point expresses regret that he's going to
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: miss the Hangover three because he's gonna die before it
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: comes out. He like apologizes to Bradley Cooper basically, and
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: it's like, sorry, man, you're great. I wonder if Bradley
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Cooper was like, fuck yeah, Christopher Dorner.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: He would have been disappointed to know that same director
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: went on to make a shitty Joker sequel too.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I didn't hate the Joker sequel, but that's a different episode.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: So this group is involved in something called the rationalist movement,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: which PBS describes as quote a community that seeks to
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: understand human cognition and is concerned with the potential dangers
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: of artificial intelligence. That sounds like a lot of us.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like so far, they're like, all right, I'm with
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: y'all at this point. Okay, I don't trust some robe Seated.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: In twenty seventeen, this is a quote from SFGate dot com.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Ziz and some associates sailed a rusty tug boat named
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Caleb from Alaska to Half Moon Bay with plans to
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: live rent free on the water as part of what
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: they called the Rationalist Fleet. End quote that's some white
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: people shit right there.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I was literally thinking that, I'm like, this is the
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: most white people shit ever, Like didn't in the main article,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: didn't like half of them have like three hundred and
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: five hundred thousand dollar jobs and Silicon Valley and shit
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: like yo quit, y'all jobs to go rook, get on
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: a fucking tug boat in Alaska.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they brought the tug boat from Alaska to live
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: on it in San Francisco, which begs the question there
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: were no tug boats in San Francisco.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Exactly, Like why did y'all need to import a tug boat?
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: They not that big?
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: And why a tugboat? Why not just live on a
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: regular ass boat, right.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: I swear man. So many stories I read every year,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I'm like, this is such an avoidable death, like one
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: of my sayings, I don't want to die like a
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Looney tune, like you hear about somebody like dying from
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: free climbing or getting attacked by a bear or something
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: like that, Like, yeah, those are such avoidable deaths in
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: North well in America. Just don't go where bears at
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: and don't go in the middle of nowhere like that
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: guy that had to cut his arm off, Like so
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: many things are just avoidable. White people need to stop
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: being so adventurous.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, shark attacks are the one I always bring up.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: People are like, oh, you got more chance of getting
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: struck and you do getting bit by a shark. It's like, yeah,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: because I'm on land, there's no sharks up here. Lightning
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: can get me here, sharks can't. It's why I'm not
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: in the fucking ocean though, because there the sharks can
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: get you.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Yes. And you see what they wanted to live on
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: an island rent free, Like, I guess they make it.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I don't think they've brought enough food to survive. I
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: don't think they really thought this through.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Also, well, for one thing, ziz Lasoda is vegan, and
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: living on the oshe as a vegan is going to
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: be tough because it's not like there's soy swimming around
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: in the ocean. That's just gonna be fish. I like
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: how they are associated with the rationalist movement and just
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: doing some of the most irrational shit possible right off the.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Bat, exactly like this cool, isn't it? By that definition?
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Most of us don't trust ais or are we all
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: just part of the rationalist movement.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: As long as you're also interested in human cognition, which
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: sure put me in front of the right documentary. I'll
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: watch it right where all is this?
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: You're right, this whole case is insane. They running around
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: with swords and shit.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is one normally you want to be like, oh,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: is this like some mk ultra shit? Is this the government?
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the fuck the government would do
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: this for. This doesn't seem like anything. But I don't know.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Are they all rich? I don't think they're all rich kids,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: but they're Sometimes you just get so smart you're just
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: disgrundled with society. I guess get smart. I don't think
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: that's how it worked.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think someone they were smart. They had comfortable
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: lives and just getting to start doing weird shit like
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: those like so many niches on YouTube, like van life.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's the thing that you only decide
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: to do if you're comfortable in life, Like I'm gonna
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: go live in a van and across the country and
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: stuff like at least get an RV.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't do it. I couldn't do van life.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I could do van life if I was sleeping in
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: a motel every night. Right, then I could do van life.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: But other than that, no, I got a shower in
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: a real shower, and it can be one that I
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: pay five dollars for at a gas station. Hard fucking pass.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: So yeah, the boat that they lived on for a
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: while apparently is still half submerged somewhere in Half Moon Bay.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: What just half submerged? Me? And I'm trying to picture that.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Is it just like sitting up halfway.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: In the ocean and yeah, that's what it sounds like.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: And do you just leave it there? In that case? No, one,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: there's not like a cleanup crew for the ocean or
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: the bay. That's like, we should drag that out of
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: there and sell it to that Ghost Adventures guy in
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Las Vegas or something.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Right like, how did they just like, oh yeah, and
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: it's just still out there and nobody's lived there's it's
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, like it's a hundred house or some shit.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Just go get it. I don't think you're supposed to
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: just be leaving boats in the ocean or wherever they
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: have fish would get stuck.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: It's a tugboat too, Just hook another fucking tug boat
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: up to it, pull it on out of there. Apparently
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: I didn't put it in the notes, but Lesoda lived
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: on another boat after this for a while, but that
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: didn't work because there wasn't enough room to do coding
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: all day. Because you're still in the tech industry, you
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: still got to hook up nineteen fucking computer monitors.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Oh so they did still have jobs at least.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Either they had jobs or they were like coding Apocalypse
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: software or something.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know, right, I just assumed if you decide
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: you living on a tug bolt, I figure you just
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: say fuck it in like you know, ghost society.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: You would think it would be weird to I mean,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: San Francisco's very expensive. They could have been doing this
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: under the guise of, yeah, this is our ideology, and
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: meanwhile they're like, I'd live in a fucking apartment if
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: I could. I'm just fucking broke. San Francisco's very experienced,
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: that is true.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe, I'm sure it probably is in the West Coast
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: just live on boats.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, San Francisco. You'd be shocked the things people do
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: to live in San Francisco. Even when I lived there,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: which was two thousand and twelve, the ridge rent for
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: a one bedroom was like twenty eight hundred, and that
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: was years ago. It's well over three thousand now. The
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: only reason I was able to live there I had
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: a friend who had a rent controlled apartment that he
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: paid seven hundred and fifty dollars a month for and
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: he would sublet it. And he just happened to be
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: in New York when I was trying to move to
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: the West Coast. So I lived in San Francisco for
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: seven hundred and fifty dollars a month. But even seven
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: to fifty a month, you wouldn't even be able to
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: rent like a boarding house room type of thing where
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: you're like sharing a bathroom with fifteen sex predators.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Hey Arnold. My generation, you say boarding house, we automatically
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: think of Hey Arnold.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. But apparently the Zizians had a rift
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: with the rationalist community in twenty eighteen because the rationalists
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: rejected Zizzu's theory that the two hemispheres of the brain
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: can hold separate values and genders. I don't know why
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: they would reject that, and I'm being honest when I
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: say that, I'm no fucking idea.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: And also they felt like each side could sleep on
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: his own.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. Speaking of those sides of the brain,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: zizz is also said to have practiced something called una
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: hemispheric sleep. This wacky shit is said in the sf
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Gate article. One of the sf Gate articles will link
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: to to have been developed by a Zizzian named Gwen Danielson.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: That's who ziz Lesoda lived on the second boat with
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: when they moved out because there wasn't enough computer space.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: What do you hook the computers up to in a boat?
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Because I mean, I guess boats have electricity. What am
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: I talking about?
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: But I guess you gotta have a generator. Maybe, I
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you charge it? Do you have to charge a boat?
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Have no idea? It's like a fucking e bike.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I really don't like large bodies of water.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I try and avoid water. I just don't like large
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: bodies of water. Is scary? That Castaway movie scared to
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: shit out of me when I was a kid.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember who it was, but I was
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: watching the Dallas Cowboys season of Hard Knocks and one
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: of their defensive players was at the beach in LA
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: and someone was like, hey, let's take a picture, and
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: he was like all right, make it quick. I don't
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: like having my back to the ocean. Yes, those are
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: words to live by right there. So yeah, you and
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: a hemispheric sleep. I looked into it a little bit,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: a very little bit. It's thing that's seen in a
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: few different animals, dolphins, whales, ducks, fucking owls, crocodiles, to
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: name a few. It's also referred to a slow wave sleep. Basically,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: it means one half of the brain rests while the
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: other half remains alert, and the eye on the alert
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: side of the brain stays open and the eye on
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: the sleeping side of the brain is shut. I walked
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: in a room and someone I knew was successfully doing that.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: I would just leave. I just get right the fuck out,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: And if I live there, I'd probably move or I'd
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: make them move one or the other. That's crazy one.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: It sounds like some shit. Joe Rogan would really believe
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: in two, Like, what advantages this half? Just because the
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: other side of your body sleep, don't mean you can
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: go do regular shit. You still gotta like rest your
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: physical body.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like he can't be walking around like no, no,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: half my brain's asleep. Bro, you don't even get it.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: But just do four hours day.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Si I can. Yeah, I'm sure I was can do
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: this shit because they just sit in trees all day
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: and maybe hunting mouse or something. This just sounds like
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: some Elon Muss shit and some Joe Rogan shit they
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: get high on. And Aaron Rodger Gold was on ESPN
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: it talks about.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: And also animals do it in case there's a threat
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: while they're sleeping. They're not doing it to like supercharge
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: their brains so they can code more.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, fucking work your second forty hour job while
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: your other personality sleep.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: So Ziz was later accused in an anonymous blog post
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: of using you in the Hemispheric sleep as a sleep
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: deprivation technique to manipulate followers. And yeah, that's probably more
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: accurate what they were doing, because there's no way it
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: was working. I don't know. I don't know. We should
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: try it. Let's try it, bonus episode.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Manipulate them to do what?
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. It seems like everyone's doing all
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: the crimes here kind of willingly. I guess that's the thing.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I guess more information will come out as the court
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: trial happens and whatnot, But it's really unclear. Was this
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: one of those cool cults where everyone's just kind of
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: into it and they're all you know, I would I mean,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: not the part where they murdered a pregnant woman obviously,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: but I think I would classify Charles Manson and the
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Manson family as a cool cult. Like he was a
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: cult leader, but it seems like they liked him, and
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: he wasn't like super abusive. He just you know, asked
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: him to kill people and they did.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: And I haven't talked about it on my YouTube channel
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: in a while, but I talked about different cults in
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: the bike model, because well, I was Jovah Witness for
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: the first twenty seven years, and that is definitely a
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: cult by all standards of practices. And the thing is
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: the colts that last a while and the ones that
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: like end up going after five years is when you
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: start doing crazy shit. The key is you got to
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: trick people in and not wanting to leave, and trick
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: them mentally into being afraid to leave. When you start
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: doing crazy like this, this is when police starts showing up.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because especially with a group like the Jeovah's Witnesses, they,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're so well established and so huge in
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: this country. They can just be like, we're religion, thank
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: you very much.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: And if you ever try and leave, yeah, your whole
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: family and community you can't talk to you. Yeah, but yeah,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: everybody's staying by choice. That's how you do it. Guys.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: If you want to start a cult, you got to
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: use the behavior control inntal control, not physical. They're all cults.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: It's just different tiers. It's just the scientologists and all
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: of that shit. They're all cults. They just figured out
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: how to manipulate people and then not wanting to leave
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: or be into afraid.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I'm tossing around the idea of and people listening to
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: this maybe you want to read it now and get
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: a jump on it. But we're tossing around the idea
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: of doing a book club kind of episode about something
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: called the Ellipsis Manual, which is something I just found
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: online the other day, but it's a really well known thing,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: and it's basically a textbook for how to immediately read
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: people's body language and manipulate them to get them to
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: do what you want them to do. It's like a
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: intelligence agency type textbook. It seems like it should not
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: even be legal to like you shouldn't be able to
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: buy it without a fucking license.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Is it legit or is this like one of the
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: things that they still had a seminar or something.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: No, this is it's been around a long time. It's
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: it has like a whole oh what do they call it?
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: The behavioral table of elements, So it's like arranged like
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: the you know, the table of element. Yeah, but it
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: just has like arms crossed and then there's all these
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: numbers like what that means, what that correlates to. It's
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: fucking fascinating and I'm so excited.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, because I've heard of people on YouTube trying to
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: do that shit, Like we're going to see what this
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: person was talking about in this interview, see when they
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: crossed their arms, and like most of the time it's
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: just bullshit.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're probably employing some version of that. But also like,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: if you're not using it to like get free fries
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: at Arby's or something, why are you even doing it?
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure if you actually studied, it's probably good
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: for like cia shit or interrogating people. Outside of that,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't know.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: I'm an interrogator some people. That's what I want to
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: fucking do very excited. So yeah, all that UNI a
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: hemispheric sleep stuff is weird, also weird. In twenty nineteen,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: that rift with the rationalist movement community eventually culminated in
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: LESDA and three Zizian's members, the aforementioned Gwen Danielson, Emma Borhanian,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: and Alexander Leatham, showing up at a summer alumni retreat
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: held by the Center for Applied Rationality at the Westminster
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Woods Children's camp in Sonoma County. They wore Guy Fawkes
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: masks and passed out flyers accusing the organization of anti
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: trans discrimination and sexual misconduct. And here's the thing, wouldn't
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: surprise me. I don't know that they weren't engaging in
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: that shit.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Who knows in that attire centus confuse me. The only
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: thing I remember is Westminster because I know they do
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: a dog show. Everything goes. I'm not sure what this
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: isign I.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Just yeah, I did an episode a long time ago
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: about a group called the Finders, and something about Center
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: for Applied Rationality and kids being involved just reminds me
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: of the Finders, which it would take forever to go
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: all the way through their story. But that was Basically,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: these two dudes in like CIA suits get pulled over
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: with this van full of disheveled looking kids with like
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: early computer modems and shit. Every government agency that looked
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: into it thought it was child sex trafficking, and then
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: it got kicked up to the CIA and they were like, nope,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: let's not investigate this any further. And in that case,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: when they got pulled over, they said they were taking
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: these kids to a school for geniuses in Mexico. This
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: sounds like that kind of shit. The Center for Applied
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Rationality and the reason. I also say that one of
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: their charges child endangerment, so there were obviously kids there,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: but this was for alumni. So I wonder if they're
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: alleging that people at an organization that takes children away
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: from their parents for an extended amount of time each
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: summer was abusing kids. And no, get the fuck out
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: of here, no way.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you started having them weird titles and having
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: picnics and shit in the woods, I don't know what,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: just sounds weird. But also they showed up in guy
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Fox masks like these are definitely some theater as.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Kids, Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, you mentioned the Westminster
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Dog Show. When I was a kid, this local radio
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: station did a thing where if you could call in
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: and stump them with a sports trivia question. I don't
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: remember what we won, but I think I was eight,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: either eight or nine, and I called them and was like,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: what's the longest running sporting event in the United States?
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: And they guessed every fucking thing but the Westminster Dog Show,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: which is the correct answer because it's technically sports.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: You know, I guess, but I don't know. I feel
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: like that's a loopho. I don't know. I don't think
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: that counts as a sports sounds more like a competition.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Dogs don't know if they wanted Also.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Well, you are not taking back my gift certificate to
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: whatever fast food restaurant I ate at that day. So
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: let's talk about the Curtis Lynd incident. In twenty twenty two,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: a group of twenty Zizian's members were living on the Vallejo,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: California property of an eighty year old man named Curtis Lynd,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: and it seems like he was just letting them do this.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: They lived in big ass box vans, live in that
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: van life, but it seems like Lind they were paying
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: him rent like.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Box trucks, like the twenty six box trucks.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that box trucks are maybe this group's main identifying symbol.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Every situation they're involved in also involves box trucks. When
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: they finally get arrested, they're in box trucks. There's an
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: incident in North Carolina. I didn't even put in the
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: notes where they rented in Airbnb and then just parked
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: a bunch of box trucks next to it and moved
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: a bunch of fucking people in.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: People at Penske gotta be wondering, I mean gotta be
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: worried every time they rent their shit out, like I
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: hope this isn't some fucking Nazis or coaked, because whenever
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: you see the Nazis get caught, they start jumping out
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: of box strokes and shit like Ninja turtles too.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: And it's never a U haul, it's always an off
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: brand box truck.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: They probably shopping around for the best price.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: So it seems like what happened is they stopped paying
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: rent and Curtis lynde eighty year old man I think,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: tried to get them evicted. And this was like on
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: the fringes of when we still didn't have to pay
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: rent because of COVID, So who knows who was on
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: the right side here, but them not paying rent apparently
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: turns into a big feud and lynd claims were claimed
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: that on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, he was attacked
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: by the group after being asked to come check on
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: a water leak, and in the ensuing melee, he was
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: impaled by a Samurai sword and lost an eye. But
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: also he brought a gun to that sword fight and
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: shot and killed Emma Borhanian and injured Alexander Leatham, and
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: he was found to have acted in self defense. So
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Leatham and another Zizzy and member Surrey Dow were charged
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: with the murder of Emma Borhenian and the attempted murder
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: of Curtis Lynde.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: The fact that eighty year old man survived the sword
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: attack is crazy.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Especially getting him paled by a sword. I would assume
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: that's it.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Right, Like he probably got what two leaders of blood
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: in this whole body.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the eye? How do you lose the eye?
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: And they just say he lost an eye, like it
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: just fell out and he couldn't find it during all
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: of this did he get stabbed in that eye?
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: These a just sound like to people who like just
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: fuck up your property, like just leave trash all over
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: the place. It's or right, man, we're just gonna, like,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: you know, let mother nature take over it. I guarantee
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: they weren't clean enough after themselves, and that probably drove
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: them crazy.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would definitely drive me fucking nuts.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: There's people that are willing to live in a box truck.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: I don't think cleanliness is high on their list.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: No, and it doesn't appear that cleanliness was high on
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: anyone's list when you look at these uh, fun loving kids.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: So Curtis Lynd he was set to testify in this trial. Unfortunately,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: before that could happen, in January twenty twenty five, in
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: an alleged attempt to keep Curtis Lynd from testifying, twenty
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: two year old Zizzion member Maximilian Snyder stabbed Lnd and
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: slit his throat in an attack near Lyn's home, killing him.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: I should point out he also used a sword or
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: it's described as a long knife.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: This all sounded like some shit, a fucking edgy kid
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: on ready or something made up. Maximilion comes comes out
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: with a sword like that don't even sound like a
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: real name. I didn't even know people actually had that name.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a wild name to still be. A diistioned
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: that out in the two thousands because this kid was
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: young twenty he was twenty two. So in two thousand
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: and three someone was like Maximilian, like.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: The dude a for St. Davis this weekend. He's a junior,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: but his first name is Lamont. I'm like, yeah, you
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: should have knew you were to have a horrifight with
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: heart fight with a guy named Lamont under the age
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: of thirty. They haven't made lamonts since like the nineteen seventies.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a rare name. That's like a white Dion.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: You don't see a lot of those anymore. Those used
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: to be common ast.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Shit would white. Oh yeah, I didn't even know y'all
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: had Dion's back in the day.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: There's a very famous I mean not famous, but he
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: was like a Bob Dylan knockoff called Dion. Back in
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: the sixties. He had a song called Mellow Yellow. You'd
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: recognize it if you heard it.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Probably I think I've heard of it.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that guy's name is Dion. But otherwise, yeah,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: die and breed White Dion's. So Snyder is currently in
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: custody awaiting trial for that killing. I don't think the
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: trial of Lee and Now have started either. But super
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: weird twist happens in this story in February twenty twenty three,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: when a lawyer representing zizz and the three other Zizian
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: members who were arrested at that children's camp asked a
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: judge to withdraw the case against them on the grounds
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: that three of the four clients were definitely or at
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: least possibly deceased. For one thing, I don't have it
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: in the notes, but that shit worked. Shit right in
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: what world do you go to a judge and you're like, hey,
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: most of these people are dead, can we just withdraw
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: this case? And the judge is like sure, right, Like okay,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: give you the one to seal it lot, Yeah, Like
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: what about the fourth person? The judge is like, ah,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: who cares nothing? So the first was Emma Borhanian who
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: was killed during the Lynd incident. And then this lawyer
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: also claimed that he had it on good information that
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Gwen Danielson had committed suicide. And then finally he said
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: he'd received a phone call in August twenty two from
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: another of Ziz Lisoda's attorneys in a separate trial, informing
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: him that Lsoda fell from a boat in San Francisco
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Bay and was likely dead. And so this lawyer reaches
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: out to Zizlisota's mother, who confirmed that Ziz was dead.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: That same lawyer tracked down the US Coast Guard report
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: on the apparent drowning, which was submitted as evidence in court.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Despite calm waters and hours of searching, Lsoda was never found.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: In an obituary was posted online. You ever want to do.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: That, which is fake death?
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd want to take people with me, like I
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: want to do like a faked family death or something.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I guess you gotta have enough money to flee the country.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Like it's this one guy. I think I heard about
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: the story, like maybe six months ago. He faked his
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: death and then they found out he was a europe
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: or something with a new family.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that happened in Wisconsin.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you gotta do that shit, like don't go
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: don't fake your deck and go live in a shitty
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: part of the country.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And even then he didn't get away with that shit.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Did he? I mean they say they know where he's at,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: but I don't did they arrest him or anything. I
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: just remember hearing a like we think we think he's
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: in Europe somewhere.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I think he did get arrested because he basically let
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: them search for him, which then you're like spending taxpayer
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: resources and whatnot. So I think he got charged with
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: something like that. But otherwise he can't. Like, I don't
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: think he can go to prison for meeting a hot
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Croatian online ditching your family over it, which what a
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: bold move, right.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: I think he got the insurance the life as yours
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: money somehow too, which that is a great scam. I
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: don't know how he put with that shit off.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's impressive. Yeah, it seems like he could have
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: just been like, yeah, yeah, I guess you got me.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: You want to come get me here and whatever Eastern
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: European country I'm in right now, Like who gets on
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: a dating site and even sees Eastern Europe and you're like, yeah,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: let's roll these dice. That's probably gonna be fine.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I just all I know about them is they
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: just build some of the toughest basketball players. That's it.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: I love watching clips of like Serbian basketball games where
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: people are setting fires in the stands and shit.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it looks so fun when actual fans can
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: afford to go to the games.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Crazy. So imagine everyone's surprise when in January twenty twenty three,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: authorities executing a search warrant at a motel in Chester City, Pennsylvania,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: found zizz Lasota, along with two other zizzi And members,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Michelle Zadsko and Daniel Blank.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Oh these names, I swear to this sounds this sounds
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: like the type of shit that like the CIA got
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: a hold of and change your names. Daniel Blank.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good one, Daniel Blank.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Half of these names sound like something you come up
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: with last minute when you don't want to give somebody
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: your uh Daniel Blank, yeah Blank is my name? What?
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: And like I said, they not only did they fake
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: they this, they went to go live somewhere in a
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: motel where it gets cold as shit. Yeah, like, at
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: least relocate somewhere in Texas with warm weather. I just can't.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I hate the cold, and I've been living in the
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: cold my entire life.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. One of the main reasons I moved to
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: La was to get away from cold weather, and I
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: don't miss it. I don't miss seasons. We have seasons.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: We have summer, and we have jacket season. And ooh,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: we are in the midst of jacket season. And I
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: love it so much. I get to sometimes even go
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: as thick as like a starter jacket or something like.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: It'll get like.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: High thirties, like the perfect weather.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, high thirties, mid forties. That's as bad as it
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: gets in the winter here, and that's only in the
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: early morning.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: I fucking love it. Well, it's so much. So Yeah,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: these names are wild. The police were there investigating the
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: murder of Michelle Zagko's parents, who were found shot to
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: death in their home about a week earlier. Somehow, Zazgo
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: was taken into custody but released without charges, but with
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Soda was arrested on disorderly conduct and obstruction of justice charges.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Ziz served five months in jail and then disappeared along
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: with Daniel Blank and Michelle Zazco immediately upon release. This
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: part blows my mind because by this point Ziz Lesoda
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: has already faked her own death, is supposed to be
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: on trial somewhere else for the trespassing in child in
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: dangerment and somehow in the five months she's in jail,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: no one connects those dots and is like, all right, well,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: after you get out, we're obviously going to ship you
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: back to where you faked your own death. They just
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: let her go and she fucking vanishes.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: And her parents died. Like did they not suspect her
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: in it? Yeah?
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, Michelle Zagco is a person of interest in
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: her parents' death, but I still think she hasn't been
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: charged yet, even though there's I believe doorbell camera footage
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: of a car pulling up to the house in someone
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: yell's mom and then you just hear a bunch of screaming.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: So either she found the body or she like faked
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: finding the body. I don't know, but it seems like
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: so far no one has been charged in that. So yeah,
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: they all go missing as soon as Lesoda's released, and
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: then the murder of Michelle's Ageko's parents goes cold for
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: a couple of years, but then Border Patrol agent David
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Mayland was killed in a shootout that resulted from a
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: routine traffic stop. How did I not put it in
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: the notes? I believe it was in Delaware, right.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say it was in a notes. The
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: border patrol just didn't say where.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe it was.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: What border does Delaware have Canada?
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe? O don't know.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I honestly have no idea where Canada is. I mean
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: because we have a lot of border patrol people up
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: here because we right next to Canada.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, northern Vermont is where this shooting happened. So yeah,
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: it was the Canadian border basically, or not basically it
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: was a Canadian border.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, because yeah, yeah, border patrol up here at all. Yeah,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: you see them all the time. And Michion were right
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: outside of Detroit.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: So after Zizion's members Ophelia Backholt and Teresa Young Blutt
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: were pulled over more names man, Young Blut got out
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: and started shooting. Agents fired back, and Bockholt was killed
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: while trying to pull a gun. It's unclear if David
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Mayland was killed by one of the Zizians or by
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: gunfire from his fellow agents. Either way, Young Blut was arrested.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Was eventually learned that the weapons the Zizians had during
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: this altercation were provided by uh Oh Michelle Zagco the
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: same Zizian's member authorities thought maybe killed her parents, but
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: it seems like they still haven't charged her. But finally,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: in earl February, Zizz Lsoda, Daniel Blank, and Michelle Zagco
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: were tracked down in Frostburg, Maryland. A property owner there
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: found you guessed it, two white box trucks had taken
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: up residents on his property. When he went to investigate,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: the people in the trucks asked if they could stay
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: for a month, and he was like sure, and then
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: immediately went back to his house and called the police.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Exactly, don't confront some lunatics living in box trucks, Yeah, like,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: oh sure, guys, you need some water, just go call
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: the police.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And also, you don't like go out there and
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: try to force him to leave. Just let the police
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: shoot it out with those fucking weirdos. And so when
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: the police arrived, l Soda and Daniel Blank were armed
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: and uncooperative, while Michelle Zagko cried and pleaded with the
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: police not to kill her, which is a reasonable response.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: And she's the one who parents got killed. Right, All
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: of these names are confusing me.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Michelle's Agco is the one who parents are dead
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: and at her first bail hearing, a judge ordered ziz
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Lusoda to be held without bail, and that's where the
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: story's at now. One of the really fun quirks about
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: them getting arrested is when they were arrested, it was
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: just for the trespassing stuff that happened at that camp
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: way back when the police had no idea they were
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: tied to all of these murders also, So.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: They had a fucking trespassing warrant and that's what they
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: got arrested for. Yeah, I don't even though you could
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: get arrested for that shit. I thought that's just like
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: a hey, come paid his fine.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Well, remember they were supposed to go to court, and
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: that's when ziz Lsoda faked or death and oh yeah,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: now that I think about it, they got that case
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: thrown out. So I wonder if they like refiled the
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: case when they realized is Lsoda wasn't dead. Who this is?
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: This is the American justice system at work.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: And these people like they like you said, they weren't.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: They didn't seem to be committing crime to get any
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: type of will for like run some type of X
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: men schoolers some shit. I don't know what their purpose was.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: It just sounded kind of like a bunch of people
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: that have some type of mental illness or something.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they sound like some entitled assholes.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, maybe they just some they think they're
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: smarter than everyone. I don't know, I don't understand what
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: this how this snowballed into all of this.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean killing the eighty year old man who's
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: letting you park your fucking box trucks on his property.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: There's nothing revolutionary about that, right, You're not going to
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: reform society doing that shit. I mean, killing a border
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: patrol cop. You're not really even putting a dent in
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: the problem there. And then this poor girl's parents, what
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: did they do?
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for me to really get behind this group's cause
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: they're gonna have to start like doing that Manngione shit
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Here, maybe they maybe did anybody leave the manifesto when
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: this one?
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: I didn't find one I looked. I guess we're taking
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: ziz Leisota's blog posts as the group's manifesto, which, no,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: you got to synthesize that down into a document. I'm
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: not going to go read someone's entire fucking blog. You
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: kidding me, right, Yeah, have AI summarized that for me
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: or something?
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: No, h, this this group was a they just crashed
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: out for no reason pretty much.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean maybe we'll hear more about their
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: practices as a cult and that will make them more
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: interesting at some point, But right now they just seem
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: like a ragtag bunch of weirdos who latched onto one
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: weirdo in particular and started causing high jinks all around
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: the country.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Right it just sounded like a bunch of ye, like
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: a bunch of internet weirdos met up in person, and
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: like they didn't have any endgame or anything like. This
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: is less a conspiracy episode and this is more like
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: pretty scary boo revivalism shit.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this would definitely have been on the True Crime
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: podcast probably if that still existed, because there really isn't.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, even with cults usually you can get some
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: sense of, oh, is this a government thing? Is this
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: like a CIA mind control thing? I'm just not feeling
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: it with this. This just feels like fucking crazy people.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Right. Like, I could see if they were attacking some
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: buildings that had like I don't know, cloud service or
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: some shit. Since they worried about AI, they weren't doing anything.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean not for nothing. If you're mad about AI.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: There's a few people you could go after exactly, and
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: they aren't eighty year old Curtis Lynd let me rent
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: space on his farm so you can live in your
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: box trucks. So yeah, this group's not that interesting. But
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: people wanted an episode about this.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm surprised. I haven't heard. I haven't heard anything
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: about this one.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: And I'm an internet content creator, so of course when
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: I say people wanted an episode about this, I mean
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: like two or three people maybe tweeted at me something like.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: That writer or the discord.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of shit. But I'm sure there'll be updates.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll find out more about this group, and
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: maybe we'll do a follow up episode once we get
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: more information. But until then, that's the story of the Zizians. John,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for doing the pod. I appreciate it.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: No problem.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: What do we have to plug before we get out
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: of here? All I got is follow me out on
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: blue sky at Adam toodd brown Dot, besky dot Social
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: let's todd with one D and uh. That's all I got, John,
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: What do you want to plug.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, follow check out my YouTube channel, my community feed.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: I've been updating. I actually had a lot going on
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Homie ft signifier. I was on his YouTube, I was
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: on his podcast channel talking about unions and organizing because
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: I've actually been a part of unions in Michigan. We're
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: one of the last few states that still has a
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: strong union. So when people were like, yeah, blackout one
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: day out of the year, I'm like, let's be real, guys,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: that's some liberal performative shit like organizing and workstopage, just
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: how you actually affect the bottom line. So I did
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: a podcast with him. My new Boondocks joint performing pretty well,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: and I'm working and besides that, I'm working on my
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: next big one. I haven't announced it yet.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Nice and I think that's it. Let's get the funk
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: out of here. John say goodbye, peace, goodbye everybody. We
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: love you.