Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / Kara Alloway, Real Housewife of Toronto, on "Most Hated" Book Debut & All Things Reality TV

Transcript

Kara Alloway, Real Housewife of Toronto, on "Most Hated" Book Debut & All Things Reality TV · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

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  Speaker 1: That's B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash P-O-D. Start your journey to
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  Speaker 1: real conversations in a new language today. Kara Alloway might
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: be recognized from her Housewives of Toronto stint, but she's
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  Speaker 1: also a journalist, radio show host, fashion guru, producer, and
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  Speaker 1: now an author. Kara has a book coming out called
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  Speaker 1: Most Hated coming out at the end of May, which
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  Speaker 1: is based on her experiences from behind and in front
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  Speaker 1: of the camera. Thank you so much for joining me, Kara.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
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  Speaker 1: So how's Toronto right now?
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  Speaker 2: Toronto's unseasonably warm right now.
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  Speaker 1: It's bizarre.
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  Speaker 2: It's in the 80s. Usually we would be cool and
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  Speaker 2: in the mid 50s, but we're unseasonably warm. Patios are open.
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  Speaker 2: Everybody's outside. Amazing.
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  Speaker 1: I'm in Florida, but there's like a heat wave in
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  Speaker 1: New York. It's 85. So everyone seems to be happy
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  Speaker 1: at the moment.
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  Speaker 2: We're getting that too.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So let's get right into it. Talk to
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  Speaker 1: me about where you came from and how you got
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  Speaker 1: to be in this reality TV world. Are you from Toronto?
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  Speaker 2: I am from Toronto. And actually, it was really strange
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  Speaker 2: the way I got involved in reality television. I wanted
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  Speaker 2: to produce reality television. I had an idea for a show.
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  Speaker 2: And I had always been a storyteller. I'd been a journalist.
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  Speaker 2: I wrote for Allure magazine. Then I moved back to Toronto.
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  Speaker 2: And as you said, I had a radio show. And
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  Speaker 2: I was an editor and then a contributor for magazines.
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  Speaker 2: But I always knew I was a storyteller. And I
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  Speaker 2: had this great idea for a reality show that I
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  Speaker 2: pitched to a production company. And they said, well, you know,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: maybe you should be in Housewives of Toronto. And that
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  Speaker 2: can be like your sizzle. And I can remember thinking,
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  Speaker 2: but wait, how is that my sizzle if I'm producing
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  Speaker 2: this show and I'm not in the show? But I
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  Speaker 2: knew nothing at the time. So I thought, OK, you know,
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  Speaker 2: maybe this is like my little door opener. This is
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  Speaker 2: what will get me in. And actually, it ended up
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  Speaker 2: working out that way because I After the show wrapped,
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  Speaker 2: when I went to LA and I got an agent
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  Speaker 2: to represent me as a producer, it was interesting going
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  Speaker 2: to meetings because I would meet film companies that would say,
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  Speaker 2: wait a minute, you were a participant in a reality
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  Speaker 2: show and now you're going to produce a reality show,
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  Speaker 2: which I think for them meant it was a win
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  Speaker 2: because I was able to speak to participants and candidates
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  Speaker 2: in a language they could understand. Basically, don't worry, I'm
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  Speaker 2: not going to sell you down the river. I've got
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  Speaker 2: your back. I know what your fears are.
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  Speaker 1: Right, right. So before you got into that though, like
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  Speaker 1: as a child, did you want to be in the spotlight?
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  Speaker 2: I was an incredibly shy child. And somebody said to
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  Speaker 2: my mom, if your daughter is this shy, one of
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  Speaker 2: the best things you could do for her would be
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  Speaker 2: get her involved in commercials, which as like a very
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  Speaker 2: shy seven-year-old, that was the worst thing I could imagine.
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  Speaker 2: I was the kind of kid that would hide behind
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  Speaker 2: my mom's leg. So if you can imagine a commercial audition,
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  Speaker 2: They push you into a room where there's a panel
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  Speaker 2: of adults behind a table staring at you. And you
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  Speaker 2: either have to eat a cookie or say a line
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  Speaker 2: or something. But what I became able to do was
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  Speaker 2: I could turn on the switch when necessary. So I
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  Speaker 2: could go in the room, turn it on, and then
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  Speaker 2: come out and be shy again. So in answer to
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  Speaker 2: your question, no, I don't think I always wanted to
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  Speaker 2: be in the spotlight. But having been a child actress,
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  Speaker 2: I was able to draw upon that experience. And so
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  Speaker 2: I knew what was needed to make a good show.
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  Speaker 2: I understood the assignment.
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  Speaker 1: Right. So funny you bring that up because I haven't
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  Speaker 1: actually thought about this in maybe 40 years. But when
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  Speaker 1: I was little, my mother also did the same thing.
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  Speaker 1: She put me in classes for commercials and I grew
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  Speaker 1: up in Anchorage, Alaska. So I was totally shy. My
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  Speaker 1: mother was an actress at the time and she wanted
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  Speaker 1: me to follow in her footsteps. And I thought it
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  Speaker 1: was so scary and I would get physically nauseous having
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  Speaker 1: to go in those rooms and see the adults behind
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  Speaker 1: the table and read the part they wanted me to read.
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  Speaker 1: And I felt so uncomfortable, but later in life, as
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  Speaker 1: you know, I got to be someone who was in
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  Speaker 1: the spotlight more, I realized I was much better at
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  Speaker 1: doing things that had to do with me. Like if
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  Speaker 1: I was not acting, that's when I was my best.
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  Speaker 1: But if I had to read something or act, forget
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  Speaker 1: about it. I was, I was completely the worst, but
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  Speaker 1: You ask me anything on live TV about something I know,
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  Speaker 1: which is, of course, myself or my life or my experiences,
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  Speaker 1: then I can talk, you know, on and on and on.
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  Speaker 1: But I cannot read anything. Did you have that feeling?
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  Speaker 2: It works. It works, though, doesn't it? I did that, actually.
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  Speaker 2: I have to confess. I did that with my youngest son,
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  Speaker 2: who was also paralyzed. painfully shy and it worked. And
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  Speaker 2: now if someone stops to talk to him, I'm like
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  Speaker 2: in the background going, you're not going to get away
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  Speaker 2: if you get them started, you're not going to get away.
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  Speaker 2: But no, I think for me, I wasn't really comfortable.
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  Speaker 2: I was a little bit the opposite. I wasn't really
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  Speaker 2: comfortable speaking about myself, but if it was a role
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  Speaker 2: I had to play and in reality television, you have
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  Speaker 2: to be careful of that because they don't want you
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  Speaker 2: to act and the audience can tell if you're acting.
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  Speaker 2: So it's a it's a fine line. You need to
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  Speaker 2: be able to how I compare it is for improvisation. Really,
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  Speaker 2: the the producer sets you up in a scene and says, OK, Rachel,
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  Speaker 2: you're going to be having lunch with Kara. And it's
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  Speaker 2: a little bit like a boxing match because you're in
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  Speaker 2: one side of the restaurant and you see me and
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  Speaker 2: we know we're doing a scene together, but we're not
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  Speaker 2: allowed to talk beforehand. So the adrenaline is rushing. They're
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  Speaker 2: making you up. You know, there's going to be a scene,
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  Speaker 2: you know, there's going to be drama. You don't know
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  Speaker 2: what I have in my pocket. And by the same token,
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  Speaker 2: I don't know what you have. We're separated. And then
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  Speaker 2: they say, okay, by the end of this conversation, Rachel
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  Speaker 2: will invite you to a party. Say yes, go. And
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  Speaker 2: so we go into the restaurant and, oh, so it's
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  Speaker 2: like improv, but you have to be yourself. And again,
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  Speaker 2: you're not acting, you know, I have to respond to
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  Speaker 2: things that you lay on the table of the moment.
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  Speaker 2: But by the same token, just as an improvisation, you
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  Speaker 2: can't say no. If you tell me something, I can't
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  Speaker 2: sit there and look at the camera and go, no, no, no, no.
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  Speaker 2: She can't talk about that. So it's very nerve wracking.
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  Speaker 2: It's a very anxious medium to be involved in. I
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  Speaker 2: have to tell you that. I've spoken to a lot
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  Speaker 2: of housewife franchise participants, reality television show participants, and there
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  Speaker 2: is a great deal of anxiety. It's not for the
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  Speaker 2: faint of heart. Right, right.
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  Speaker 1: So how did they find you?
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  Speaker 2: Actually, I was helping them with the casting. That's a
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  Speaker 2: great question. Nobody ever asks me that. I was helping
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  Speaker 2: them with the casting because we had a relationship, because
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  Speaker 2: I had pitched to them, you know, I really want
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  Speaker 2: to do this show. I was involved in a lot
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  Speaker 2: of charity events. And so I thought, you know, it
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  Speaker 2: would be great to have a reality show about charities
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  Speaker 2: and we can call it like sweet charity. And it'll
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  Speaker 2: sort of be like the crazy stuff that happens when
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  Speaker 2: you're trying to put on a charitable event. So I
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  Speaker 2: had brought this to them and they were the ones
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  Speaker 2: that said, well, we're not sure this is something we
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  Speaker 2: want to do now. So we had remained in touch.
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  Speaker 2: So when they came time to cast Toronto Housewives, they
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  Speaker 2: came to me and said, can you suggest people? And
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  Speaker 2: the funny thing is, I suggested a lot of my
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  Speaker 2: organic girlfriends and whatnot. And either they felt they didn't
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  Speaker 2: have TVQ or my girlfriends went to the interview and said, oh, no, no, no.
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  Speaker 2: not for me. I'm not doing that. So it was
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  Speaker 2: interesting when it came time for the first day of filming,
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  Speaker 2: I had no idea. I knew one individual who was
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  Speaker 2: going to be in the cast, but I had no
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  Speaker 2: idea who else was going to be in the cast.
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  Speaker 2: I knew who wasn't going to be in the cast,
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  Speaker 2: but I didn't know who the cast was going to be.
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  Speaker 2: So that was also really, you know, walking into this
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  Speaker 2: room saying, I thought I knew everyone. I thought I
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  Speaker 2: was Mrs. 416. I thought I knew everyone in Toronto.
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  Speaker 2: So who is this cast going to be?
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  Speaker 1: So talk us through the process of casting. How does
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  Speaker 1: that normally work?
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  Speaker 2: Well, the first thing you want to look for is
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  Speaker 2: you find someone who has good TVQ. So when I'm casting,
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  Speaker 2: it's funny. I'm great with, I will say to people,
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  Speaker 2: send me an iPhone video. And I think that really
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  Speaker 2: like startles people because they say, you know, well, I
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  Speaker 2: don't have the right lighting and stuff. One of the
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  Speaker 2: key cast members for my charitable show was a girl
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  Speaker 2: who sat in her car with her dog on her
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  Speaker 2: lap and a cracked cell phone and just riffed about
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  Speaker 2: herself and her life. And she was TV. She was
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  Speaker 2: reality TV gold. Every single production company I showed her
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  Speaker 2: little tattered iPhone video to said, who is this girl?
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  Speaker 2: If not for this show, we need her on TV.
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  Speaker 2: So I ask, you know, I seek out candidates depending
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  Speaker 2: on what the show is or what the parameters. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: I've done a food show where obviously I'm looking for
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  Speaker 2: someone who's in the food industry, that sort of thing.
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  Speaker 2: But for this charity show, um, I was looking for
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  Speaker 2: event planners. So I, and it was going to be
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  Speaker 2: based in Dallas. So I scoped out all the, you know,
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  Speaker 2: top and.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
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  Speaker 3: know about the drawer, the drawer, just.
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  Speaker 4: The one square before bed or two, you know, Nobody's watching.
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  Speaker 4: You deserve a treat.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: With eight flavors to choose from, you can choose the
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  Speaker 3: flavor you favor with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
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  Speaker 2: Lesser event planners, because sometimes you don't want the top line.
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  Speaker 2: Like it's interesting with housewives. They don't necessarily want the
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  Speaker 2: top tier in a city, if that makes any sense,
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  Speaker 2: because the top tier either has too many skeletons in
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  Speaker 2: their closet or too much to lose, or they never
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  Speaker 2: signed the participant agreement. So you go down a little,
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  Speaker 2: not to say I'm B-list, but whatever. You go down
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  Speaker 2: a little and And there, I think, is where you
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  Speaker 2: find a little bit more wiggle room, as it were,
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  Speaker 2: with a cast. So I get these people to send
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: in little iPhone videos. I review them. And you're really
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  Speaker 2: looking for TVQ. You're looking for someone who, when you
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: watch American Idol and you see Katy Perry, she has
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: great TVQ. You could watch her all day long. She's funny.
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  Speaker 2: She's animated. She's unpredictable. Sort of, I like to use
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  Speaker 2: the expression, lightning in a jar, chasing chickens, that kind
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  Speaker 2: of vibe. You want someone like that. Much easier to say,
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  Speaker 2: take it back, trim it down than to say, give
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: me more energy, give me more energy. So you definitely
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: want someone who has energy. You want someone who is
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  Speaker 2: good in an improv, who can think on their feet,
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  Speaker 2: who's good in an improv situation. And then it's a
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  Speaker 2: lot of, you know, casting out that line and hoping
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: that it's good, hoping that they are, once you do
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  Speaker 2: the casting, hoping it is someone that can either be
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: propelled by someone else in the cast or can propel
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: themselves on their own.
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  Speaker 1: And are these women usually friends?
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  Speaker 2: For housewives, there's usually a connection. Usually if they're not
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  Speaker 2: like a one degree of separation, there's like a two
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  Speaker 2: degree of separation. So in our case for our show,
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  Speaker 2: I was an acquaintance of one of the cast members
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  Speaker 2: who was an acquaintance of another cast member, but the
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: mistake they made, so obviously depending on what the show is,
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  Speaker 2: You're going to be casting it differently. The mistake they
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  Speaker 2: made in my particular franchise was they cast three friends.
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  Speaker 2: So if you think about it, you're casting three friends. Well,
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  Speaker 2: you want to stir up drama. Those three friends are
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: going to operate as a single entity. Nobody is going
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: to throw anybody else under the bus or anything like that.
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  Speaker 2: So it was like they were one entity and then
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  Speaker 2: there was the rest of us.
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  Speaker 1: Got it. What shows were popular? What housewives shows were
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: popular when you guys were casting that you guys were
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  Speaker 1: kind of going off of?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I had I had a couple of friends who
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  Speaker 2: were on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and that was
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: picking up. I wouldn't say it had really met its
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: stride yet when they were casting, but it was definitely
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: picking up. Definitely New York, I would say, was the
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  Speaker 2: creme de la creme when they were casting. And do
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  Speaker 2: I think they were trying to find like a Bethany type? Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Do I think they were trying to find a you know,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: there are there are types. I mean, the verbiage they
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: have for it is like. the zero F's character, right?
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  Speaker 2: That's what Bethany is. And, and that's every show needs
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  Speaker 2: that person, the one that will say and do anything.
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  Speaker 1: Um, but when you say that, it's interesting that you
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: say that cause she didn't start out that way. She
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: was more shy. She was reserved. She had no money. Um,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: she wasn't the typical girl that they cast for that.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: She was, I mean, was she even married back then?
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I can't really remember, but Maybe she was.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think she was. I'm thinking she was engaged
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: because there is something in some of the housewife participant
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: contract is so crazy because one of the one of
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  Speaker 2: the parameters is that they ask that you have been
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  Speaker 2: married and divorced or engaged. That's like right there, you know,
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  Speaker 2: when they're casting, when they're looking for that. But I
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: think Bethany has always been very unfiltered. It's funny. She
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  Speaker 2: was a hostess at La Scala in Beverly Hills and
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  Speaker 2: I was a hostess down the street at the Bistro Garden.
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  Speaker 2: And so I knew who she was. We had friends
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: in common. I was never a direct friend of hers,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: but we had friends in common. And she was always
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: famous for telling it like it is. You know, she
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: was very an independent thinker. I think she has... I
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: go into this a little bit. I think she has
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: a very high emotional intelligence, which is something that's so
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: great for a reality television show character. Before we did
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: our particular franchise, we had to do a psychological assessment.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: And I was always still curious as to what they
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: tell you. Oh, it's so that you can handle the
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: negativity from the trolls on social media. But given the
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: questions and given the scope of the psychological assessment, I
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: knew it was definitely not for that. It's so that
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: production can know what your buttons are, what your triggers are,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: what your phobias are and what sets you off, basically.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: So after the show, I called up the firm that
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: had done it and I asked if I could see mine.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: And it was fascinating because the very first line said,
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  Speaker 2: Kara has a very high emotional intelligence. And I went, bingo.
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  Speaker 2: That's why I was the villain. Because you need that
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  Speaker 2: sort of independent thinker, the one with the high emotional intelligence,
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  Speaker 2: the one that will not sweep things under the carpet,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: the one that needs to process what happens. And, you know,
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  Speaker 2: I'm notorious for that. I drive my husband and my
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  Speaker 2: kids nuts. I'm always like, come on, we need to
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: talk about this. We need to talk about what happened.
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  Speaker 2: And they're like, oh, my gosh.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, mom.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: So before you get into the creation of your characters,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: the villain that you just brought up, how did you
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: then go from being in the process of casting to
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: them saying, listen, we really like you for this role?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Rachel, I have to tell you, I'm one of those people,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I like to try anything once. I consider myself adventurous.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: I like to visit interesting countries. I like to taste
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: different cuisine. Really and truly, I looked at this initially saying, no, no,
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  Speaker 2: I want to produce. The producers were very driven. They
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: kept coming back to me and coming back to me.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: And eventually I sort of looked at my husband. He said,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: don't look at me because I'm a lawyer and I'm
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: not going on this show with you, honey. He ended
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: up coming on with me because I needed an ally.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I was like, I need somebody. I'm on an island.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: But I did look at my husband and I said,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: maybe I should do this. Maybe this would be fun.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Maybe this would open some more doors. And maybe this
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: is something that I need to do before I can
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: get into my next part of storytelling. And he said, okay,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: you're going to do this.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: And what were you doing for a living at that time?
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: I was writing. I was a freelance journalist and writer.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: So I was writing. I was no longer working full
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: time for Allure magazine after I moved back to Toronto.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: So and I had had my three kids. My youngest,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I think, was 12 at the time. So what was
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I doing? I was a I was doing a lot
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: of taxi driving around. I was cooking a lot of meals.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I was deep, deep into the mommy world. But I
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: was also a freelance writer at the time and freelancing
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: articles for different publications.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: So you mentioned your husband's thoughts on it. He said
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: he didn't want to be involved at the beginning. How
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: did your kids feel about it?
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Same, not at all. Even the one that was the actor,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: the family of origin here was saying, look, we will
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: support you a hundred percent. We wish you the best
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: of luck in this endeavor. They had seen what my
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: friends went through on some of the other franchise. You know,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: they had seen, they just had a really cautious Toronto
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: as a whole is a very conservative city. Not that
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: my kids and husband are all that conservative, but you know,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: we tend to be a more cautious kind of group
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: up here in Toronto. So they had seen it and
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: they just said, you know, it wasn't for them. My
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: family actually is really private. They're very private. So after
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: I went on the first night, I came home and
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: my poor dear husband was asleep. It was a wives
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: only event. And I came home and he was asleep.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: And I can remember I shook his shoulders. I was like,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: wake up, wake up, wake up. We have a big
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: problem here. And he was like, what's going on? And
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I said, look, I can tell I am alone here.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: I need you to come on this show with me.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: I need what I needed was I needed, you know,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: the buddy, the sidekick to sit on the sofa with
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: me so I could tell my point of view, because
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: otherwise I realized, oh, I'm not going to get my
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: point of view at all. It's going to all be
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: everybody else's interpretation of what I'm thinking and who I am.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: So I need someone to be able to verbally vomit
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: what I'm thinking, too. Sure.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: And so did he decide to come on with you?
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: He did. And to put it in a very harsh way,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I was the pig in the bacon and egg breakfast
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: and he was the chicken. So he signed a participant
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: agreement that would show him in the best possible light
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: he was there to be my go-to guy. And then
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: I was there, you know, holds barred.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: So talk to me about what it's like to film
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: and then to see it come out on television and
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: being in the process of knowing what you're doing and
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: saying in a certain event or scene, and then you
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: see it play out on TV. Is it weeks later,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: months later? Talk to me about that whole process.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: It's months later. So a lot of times you do,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: you know, you forget, oh, that's right. We did film that. Oh,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: that's right. We did do that. A lot of it
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: is the edit. So I can tell you this from
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: my girlfriends in the other franchise, Beverly Hills, New York.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: know about the drawer.
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: The drawer. Just the one square before bed. Or two,
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: you know. Nobody's watching.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: You deserve a treat. With eight flavours to choose from,
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: you can choose the flavour you favour with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Dallas, Orange County, the edit was not the same as mine.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: My edit was very harsh and we were filming a
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: scene at one point and I was wearing these really
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: high heels and I was walking into a restaurant and
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I can remember I was teetering and we cut and
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: they said, no, go back and do it again. There
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: was something wrong with the sound or there was something interfering.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: And I turned to the cameraman and I said, oh
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: my gosh, I'm walking so slow and teetering. I'm going
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: to look like I'm drunk walking in here. And he said,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: don't worry about it. We'll speed up your walk in
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: the edit. And at that time, I stopped and I thought,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I've been so careful about what I said, but I
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: never for a minute contemplated the frankenbiting and the cherry picking,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: which I know for a fact does not happen on
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: the other franchise. My production, they went crazy with the
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: frankenbiting and the cherry picking, which is, for example, I
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: was having a conversation with another cast member at one
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: point and I said, look, you come after me, I'll
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: stand my own. You come after my kids and flame's
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: shoot out of my nose. The edit had me saying,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: you come after me. And then there's like this awkward
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: and flames will shoot out of my nose. But watching
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: that back, I can't even tell you the anxiety. I
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: heard Megan Markle say when she was in South Africa
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: and they interviewed her that when she did that big
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: trip in the documentary, she said, one of the worst
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: things you can do for a person. And I think
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: that you specifically, Rachel, I'm not looking to rip off
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: band-aids here, but I think you could relate to this.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: One of the worst things you can do to a
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: person is prevent them from speaking and telling their story.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: So when you're watching a reality show back like I was,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: and it's been edited to that extent, and you think
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: that's not my story, that's not what I said. Megan
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: said like, that was one, I can remember she was
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: teary saying this and I watched and I went, I
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: get it. It is the worst. It is the worst
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: feeling to not give someone their voice, to take that
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: away because we all have a voice, but to silence
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: that voice is just brutal. And to go through that,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: sorry for the long-winded overdramatic answer to your question, but.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: It's such a great answer. And it's interesting to have
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: them show you in a different light or edit you
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: in a different light. Also, you know, you can say
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: things or be who you are. but it's really difficult
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: if they take that away from you by editing you
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: in a different light. And the perception is so much
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: different than the reality. And you get so, you know,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: anxious about it because you are the one that goes
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: home at the end of the night and you are
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: a real person, you know? So all these people get
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: obsessed with watching you as the villain or the victim
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: or whatever it is that you are characterized as at,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: in the show, but you have real feelings in a
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: real life. So it really does affect you. And I
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: think people forget that Reality TV may be just for TV,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: but you are a person that goes home and has
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: real feelings and a real family, and it affects your
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: mental health.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Precisely. Oh, it really does. I mean, I was in,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: when it first aired, I had to snap out of it.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I was in some really dark places and the internet,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's bad. The things that people would say
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: to me, the horrible things. And I can remember at
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: first I was replying saying, this is a show. It
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: was meant to entertain you. Why are you saying these
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: horrible things?
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So tell me what that was like reading the
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: comments for the first time.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, awful. So I was naive and green. I had
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: my Instagram alerts on at first and it was bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: I can't even tell you like 30 a second, you know,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: you're awful. You're horrible. Do you even realize what, there
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: were so many that would say, we saw what you
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: said on that show. And I can remember thinking, guys,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I was miked with three, and this is what I
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: get into in my book, because one of the girls says,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: you know, you're wearing a mic pack. There's a boom
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: operator and two cameras in your bathroom. Do you not
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: think I am keenly aware of everything that's coming out
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: of my mouth? Please, you didn't catch me saying anything,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: or you didn't catch me in an interview saying anything
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: that I wasn't 100% aware of what I was saying,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: whether it was for the drama, because I will tell
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: you this, on my show, Um, there was, it was
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: flatlining a lot. And I realized, as I said, I
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: understood the assignment. I knew what housewives was about and
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: there wasn't a lot of other people willing to bring
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: the drama. So I've said, you know, okay, no problem.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: I'll bring the drama. So things that were scheduled, for example,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: a banana boat ride, um, on an inflatable on a lake,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: you know, the, the producers asked me in an interview.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: So why did you have the girls on the banana boat? Well,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: you can't say because we scheduled that for production. That's not,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: you don't break that fourth wall. So I knew that
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: I was going down the road of being a villain.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: And I said, well, everybody was so bitterly hung over.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: What better way to get back at them than to
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: take them for a ride on the banana boat? Oh,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: my goodness. If the trolls didn't go, you're an awful person.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: How could you do that? I was like, yeah, OK.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: So how did you get characterized as the villain? Was
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: that something you decided to create or they really created
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: for you?
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: No, that was that was definitely created for me. And again,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: I think that comes back to the whole emotional intelligence.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: You know, I I'm an independent thinker. I have distinct
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: opinions and I'm not afraid afraid to share those opinions.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I don't you know, I'm not one of those people
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: that said everybody has to have my same opinion. But
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: thanks to a heavy hand with an edit and thanks
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: to myself, you know. being someone that, you know, I'm
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: okay chatting and I'm okay talking and I'm okay saying,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: you know, what I say. I mean, I was, I
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: was great for that purpose. I was, I was their
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: villain from, I'm sure before they even started filming, I'm
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: sure they went.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Was that okay for you or did that end up
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: affecting you later in your real life?
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: At first it was not okay because of course everybody,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: and especially myself, I mean, I had no business being
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: in reality television as a pleaser. I was a pleaser.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: So yeah, That's the last person that should be on
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: a reality television show. And it was interesting because I
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: grew and I learned so much through the experience that
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: after the fact, I was okay with it. And what
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: I mean by that is that I had always thought
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: I was a pleaser because I was, you know, a
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: nice person and I wanted everybody to be happy. But
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: what was revealed to me through the process is, no,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of vanity tied up in being a pleaser.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Because you want everybody to like you because you want
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: to be liked and that's on you. So you have
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: to be okay. If you're going to call yourself an
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: independent thinker, you have to be okay with not everybody
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: liking you and growing from that. I mean, what I
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: learned about myself in the process was phenomenal. Did I
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: want to be the villain?
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: No.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Was I thankful for being the villain? Well, everybody remembers
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: me and all of the press surrounding the show said
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: without Cara, there wasn't a show. Every conversation, there was
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: one time the producers took me out of the scene
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: because I would walk in a room and it would
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: always just be circling around Cara, Cara, Cara. So they
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: took me out of the scene and they had everybody
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: else film and they sat them in a circle and
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: they said, okay, and this is like the oldest trick
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: in the book for trying to get something happening in
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: reality television. look to the person to your right and
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: say something you love about them and something you hate. Well,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: this group, I was told by a production member that
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: was there, you know, would look to the right and say, well,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I love you because you're beautiful and your heart is
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: so pure, but I hate you because you're so incredibly
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: organized and I just wish I could be organized like you.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: And the production was like shaking their head going, are
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: you kidding? We're looking for anything. Throw us a bone.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: And I think, you know, someone was on the phone.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Bring Kara. Send for Kara. We need her. Right.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Well, it is so interesting. Like I was there the
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: weekend that they started. Bravo started filming the show Southern Charm.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I'm friends with some of those guys. So I went
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: down there like we're filming something. I had known Shep
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: for a while. Do you know the show I'm talking about?
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: So he invited me down to come see what he
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: was doing. He's like, we're filming this show. I don't
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: know what's going to happen. And I went down there
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: and I spent the whole weekend with him and the
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: cast and, uh, my friend and I, my girlfriend and I,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: that I went down with, um, she was, we were
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: both single, I guess. And we were looking for a
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: fun time and it was the most boring weekend ever.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, even though they're the best looking guys and
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: girls you've ever seen, um, I kept saying to Shep,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: I'm like, how are you going to get a show
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: out of this? You guys don't even talk. There's nothing
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: to talk about at these parties. You guys keep having,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: people keep getting drunk and then no one's really talking.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: This is so dumb. And he's like, yeah, I know
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: it's awful. And then the show came out and it
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: was a total hit. So I was like, who are
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: the people editing this stuff? They're getting great. I don't,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: they're really creating something out of nothing. I really was shocked.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: And I mean, I love those guys. After the weekend
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: that I had, I became great friends with all of them.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: know about the drawer.
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: The drawer. Just the one square before bed. Or two,
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: you know. Nobody's watching. You deserve a treat.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: With eight flavours to choose from, you can choose the
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: flavour you favour with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Them and I thought they were great, but I was
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: just like, how are you going to edit a show
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: like this together? And they really did a good job.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: it's really about the production company, right? Don't you think
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: they're all sort of different?
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: It definitely is about the production company. It's so funny
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: that you say you were so bored because it is boring.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: And again, I do touch on this in the book,
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: like a lunch, you might sit down to film a
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: lunch and, you know, with the whole cast, for example,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: and maybe that's going to be five minutes of what's
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: captured on film, but you're there for three hours filming
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: the lunch. It's torture and monotony and you're exhausted by
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: the end of it. It's, it makes me laugh that
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: you say it's so boring. And a lot of it also,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I think is in the interviews too, the way, you know,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I know Southern charm is set up that way as,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: as well as, you know, the housewives format. So the
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: shows that have a little bit of action, and then
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: you go back to the interview. I think that that
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: juxtaposition really creates it, but you're absolutely right. It's, it's
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: a ton in the edit. And the person responsible for
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: that is the story editor who gets all of this
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: And then says, okay, how can I weave a story
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: out of all of this footage? And they might just
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: catch maybe something that was said, like whispered off camera,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: you know, like, oh, I don't like her hair today
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: or something like that. And then they can go, boom,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: let's go with that. Right.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: They're just waiting for that one moment that they get
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: out of the three hours to create something.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now I get it. All right, so tell me
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: one time that was the best time you had doing
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: the show and one time that was the worst that
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: you regret even being there.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Probably the best time was I filmed some scenes with
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: my mom who is crazy, unpredictable. She is like, she's
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: the zero F's character. She's unfiltered and it's so funny.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: She like will just say anything and do anything. So
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: that was a lot of fun. I love that that's
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: a memory I'll always have. We filmed it like this
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: posh club in downtown Toronto and she was just you
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: know being her regular uncanny unfiltered self um And so honest.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: So that was that was a lot of fun and
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: a great memory. The worst was we filmed a scene
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: where one of the ladies did a traditional. Can I
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: speak to you by, you know, would you step aside
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: with me, please? Which is like the biggest housewife cliche.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: So we step aside and she confronts me and we
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: have this conversation and we don't really resolve it, but
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: we return to the table again. And when we returned
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: to the table, I looked down and there's money on
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: the table. And so I'm walking back to my seat
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: and I'm thinking like, what's, and so I said, what's,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: what's the money on the table for? And the other
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: lady sort of snickered and, you know, really mean girl
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: stuff here, like really mean girl stuff. And they looked
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: around and they said, oh, we were just taking bets.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: If it got physical, that she'd take you out. And
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I just kind of looked at that and went, ouch,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: here I am in the cafeteria again or high school
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: or wherever it is. And here's the tribal unit. And
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: here's the girl who's being shunned and gossiped about and
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: slandered about because I don't conform to the way that
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: everybody else thinks. Wow. Ouch. But out of that became
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: my line. Don't bet against Kara Alloway. You'll lose. Right.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: So the show had how many seasons?
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Two?
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: One.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: It had one season. You know, for whatever reason, the
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: show didn't come back for a second season, I'd like
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: to say, because I said, sorry, this isn't for me.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: It was an interesting experience, but I'm glad it's finished.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Okay. And so you kind of decided to walk away?
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, I did.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Okay. And did it open up any opportunities after the
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: fact for you that you were happy?
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Huge opportunities.
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Huge opportunities, which was great. I was able, as I said,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: I was able to go to Los Angeles. I got
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: an agent to represent me as a producer. I was
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: able to pitch my show about charities. I got a
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: film company to pick it up. It's in development. We
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: shot the sizzle in Dallas and then COVID came and
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: it was a show about event planners in Dallas. So
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: we're back again. I'm resuscitating it, which is great, but
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: it's called Dallas Planners Club and it's fun and it's
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: like million dollar listing, but for event planners and it's
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: fun and just the right amount of salt and sugar
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: and a good time. Got it.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: So did you do more radio after that?
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: No, I didn't. My radio was actually vertically integrated when
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: I was the fashion and beauty editor for a magazine.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: The magazine also owned a radio station and they asked
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: if I could do a fashion and beauty show, which
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: was so challenging because I had, I think it was
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: three minutes to do a daily fashion and beauty report.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: which I'm sure you know from being in this business,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: three minutes is like nothing. So it was fabulous because
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: I got to interview some great designers, Phoebe Philo, Stella McCartney,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Zach Posen, Diane von Furstenberg, Oscar de la Renta. It's
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: incredible how many people wanted to come on the radio show.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: It was really cute. They really were like, oh, a
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: radio show.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: That's fun.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: And I had Stella McCartney doing PSAs for me, like
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Remember Paul McCartney used to kid around when he was
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: a young Beatle. They'd always show him fooling around and stuff. Well,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Stella has that exact same sense of humor. So she
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: would say, this is Stella McCartney and don't miss Cara Alloway.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: She was just so fun and funny. But it was
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: really interesting to me how many of those great iconic
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: designers were like, yeah, we'll do a radio show. That's fun. Sure.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's great. And so after you did The Housewives,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: you said you were friendly with some from other franchises before,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: but what was the best advice you got from these
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: other housewives?
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, the best advice, well, she wasn't a housewife at
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: the time, was from my friend Kathy Hilton, who's been
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: my friend for 30 plus years, who said to me,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: you listen to me. I said, okay, what? And she said,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: You tell these people I'm nice, but don't mess with me.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: And I went, oh, okay, I get it.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: I am nice, but don't mess with me. And I
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: completely understand that. And I remember when she was having
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: a rough time last season on her Beverly Hills show,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: she said, look, hunky dory is nice but you want
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: to play we'll play and I was thinking oh that's
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: exactly like the advice you gave me you know you
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: can be a nice person but I always say as
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: women we need to recognize you don't have to like
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: the other woman you don't have to love the other
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: woman but you've got to respect the other woman so
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: if you've got a problem with that then we're going
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: to have a problem.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: How do you think she did on the show.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Amazing. She was always an incredibly funny person. She's like
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: a Lucille ball. She is the funniest person I know.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: And I remember I was so happy when she was
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: on Housewives because before that, I don't think that people
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: saw that in her. I can remember telling someone that
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: about her. And they said, oh, I always think of
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Kathy Hilton as being so proper. And I said, oh, no,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: she is the biggest practical joker.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Cut up.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Prank caller, prankster. She is so much like that. And
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: so I think she really got a chance to shine
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: in that way on Housewives. I think people really got
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: to see that side of her, which I was really
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: happy for.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: So what other reality shows are you watching now?
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Ooh. What do I watch? Well, I watch American Idol,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: which is a reality show. Of course, I will watch
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Beverly Hills Housewives. I love Salt Lake City. I think
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: that Shed Media has done such a good job with that.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I think it was slow to take off, but then
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: I think once it did, they did such a great
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: job with that. Same for Dubai. I wasn't a fan
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: for the first two episodes, but I've been watching Real
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Housewives of Dubai last season and I will watch it again.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I think that production company is doing amazing. I think
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: that Alex Baskin does have the golden touch and anything
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: he produces turns to gold. So do I watch Vanderpump Rules? Yes,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: it's my guilty pleasure. And I don't know why I
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: even have to say it's my guilty pleasure because having
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: been on reality television, I don't know. It just has
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: such a stigma. Like, oh, really? My husband leaves the room.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: He can't stand it because I cannot believe you are
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: watching that. I'm like, good, get out. I'm doing research
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: for my work. Shut up.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly. Wait, speaking of Vanderpump then, what do you
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: think about the whole scandal and the fact that they're,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't really watch it before the scandal.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: I have, of course, tuned in now that the scandal
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: happened and everybody's talking about it. But I'm confused by
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: why it's like such mainstream media news. It was, you know,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: on the cover of the New York Times, this whole scandal.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: It seems odd when everybody on that show has a
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: history of cheating on each other.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: This is true. But I think that the world and again,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: this comes back to my book. I think that the
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: world has a fascination with women relating to other women.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: I think that they have always been fascinated. And I
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: think that's why we are drawn to watch Megan versus Kate.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I think that's why we're drawn to watch Selena Gomez
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: versus Haley Bieber. OK, let's get started.
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: Are you first time buyers?
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's our first time.
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: So it's your first time here?
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: No, it's first time buying.
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: Did you say no for first time buying?
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: No, wait, hold on. Okay, please hold.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: What?
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: No, no, I told you to hold on.
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: You're viewing homes, not mortgage advisors. So find your nearest
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: branch at ebs.ie to get a dedicated mortgage person throughout
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: your mortgage journey. EBS, the mortgage people. Lending criteria, terms
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: and conditions will apply. EBS DAC is regulated by the
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: Central Bank of Ireland.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: I think that women reacting with other women, and I
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: think that there is a lot of, it's a term
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I borrowed from Dr. Phyllis Chesler called internalised misogyny that
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: women express to other women. And I think that the
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: world is fascinated with that whole how it plays out.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: And women specifically, I mean, we are relational creatures. We
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: are designed to be relational. And I think that we also,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: you know, for me and myself, I am fascinated by
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: seeing women relate to other women and how it works out.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: And in this book, when I was researching my book,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: I read everything. a fantastic book by this Dr. Phyllis Chesler.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: And it's obviously nonfiction. It's a research book. She spent
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: years researching and she is a, what she calls herself
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: a second generation feminist. And she said, women told her, no,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: don't write this book. This is like friendly fire and
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: you can't talk about this. And she said, no, it
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: needs to be discussed. And so her book is called
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Woman's Inhumanity to Woman. And In it, she talks about
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: how it starts at age eight in the playground. And
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: it's a very tribal setup. And, you know, you need
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: to conform. And the ones who shun the independent thinkers
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: are not the little boys. It's the little girls who go,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: if you don't fit in with our tribe, you will
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: be shunned. However, little boys, when they have aggressions to
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: work out, they tussle, right? They they'll wrestle. They'll put
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: someone in a headlock. But little girls were taught, no,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: you have to be prim and proper. And it's not
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: that myself or Dr. Phyllis Chesler are saying, you know,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: girls should start to be more physically aggressive. But what's
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: interesting is, so we tend to internalize these aggressions. We don't,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: we're taught not to deal with them right away. And
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: how do they play out? They play out through gossiping, which,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: you know, in some cultures, gossip leads to a loss
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: of life, a loss of divorce. I mean, it's awful.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: If there was, somebody said to me, if there was
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: one thing you could you know, eliminate from the world
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: right now, what would it be? And I said, a
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: girl's got a dream, but I would make it that
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: gossip was no longer acceptable. I mean, we've eliminated a
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: lot of toxic words from our culture and our dialogue.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be great if starting at a young age,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: when someone starts to gossip, you just walked away and said, no, no,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: if I have a problem with someone, I'm going to
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: take it up with them. But anyway, this happens in
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: the playground. So the girl who is the independent thinker
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: is shunned. She's slandered. She's gossiped about because you must conform.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: And I find that so fascinating that, you know, we
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: carry this all through our lives as women. It's how
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: we're raised and women like close personal relationships. So girls
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: tend to get a best friend and you want to
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: be so close and you want to spill your secrets
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: with a friend, whereas men are OK with mid-level relationships where,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: you know, you're a dude, but you're not spilling everything. Well,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: the problem with a girl having such a tight relationship
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: with another girl is that other girl knows where all
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: the bodies are buried. So when that friendship breaks up,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: that's usually.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: The person that will take you down historically.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: I do think it's really interesting that in most scenarios
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: with women, as you're talking about, there becomes a victim,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: there becomes a villain or some sort of monster. And
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: then the person that everyone wants to hate. And then
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: the person that everybody sides with there becomes like a
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: herd mentality. And what I've noticed is that from being
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: somebody in the public eye that people have an opinion about,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: you know, people are going with their gut on how
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: they want to feel based on what they're triggered by.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: You know, if they are not liking one person and
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: have such an issue with a scenario, it usually has
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with what that person's issue is, right?
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: It becomes, you know, if I'm angry about some celebrity
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: that I don't know and what they're doing, I mean,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: I don't even know them. Why would I get so angry?
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: So it's more that they're triggered by something going on
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: in their life that they're triggered by. Um, so I
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: had to take, yeah, I had to take like a
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: good 10 years to really figure that out though, because
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: I had so many people that would read about me,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: make an opinion, form an opinion without knowing me and
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: dislike me or like me. And you know, the reality
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: was they didn't know me at all, you know? So
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: it was very difficult for me to have to figure
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: out how to get my own narrative through so they
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: really knew who they were choosing to like or dislike.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Because it's fine with me if somebody doesn't like me,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: but they have to have a reason. They have to
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: know me and have an experience with me. And that's
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: why I chose to go on some reality shows or
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: that's why I'm choosing to write a book or having
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: a podcast even because I think it's important for people
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: to give everyone a chance. And like you're saying, I agree,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: it would be great if there was no gossiping in
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: the world because it's just, it's usually made up out
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: of complete bullshit and a lack of facts.
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: So, um, yeah. And, and a lot of this, and
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of this reality TV is based on picking
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: a side and wanting somebody to fail and wanting someone
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: to succeed. And it gets really kind of hard to
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: watch sometimes, which is why I think, uh, housewives of
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: New York ended up taking, you know, a fall off
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: a cliff a little bit. What are your predictions for
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: the housewives of New York, the new season?
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's going to be fascinating.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: I think they did a great job casting it. Genuinely,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what the TVQ is
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: of the individuals, but I think it's going to be
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: a resuscitation that was needed. There is something to be
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: said of having an older cast, and I discussed this
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: with a journalist once. She was talking about British young
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: girls never used to watch the housewives. And then all
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: of a sudden it really caught on and we were
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: bantering back and forth. And she said, why do you
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: think it's so popular with the younger generation of girls now?
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: And we landed on the idea that, you know, when
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: you're young, You can be wild and crazy and then
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: you sort of think, well, eventually I'll get married. I'll
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: settle down. You know, I'll have a permanent job. I'll
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: do this. And maybe my life won't be so fun
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: and unpredictable anymore. But when you can watch these older
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: women carrying on and acting like loonies, you kind of go, oh,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: there's hope. Maybe I can still be crazy and wild
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: even when I'm older. But I'm curious, actually. I'm very
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: curious to see how New York plays out this season.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: I really am. And speaking to your point about people
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: making opinions on, that was one of the individuals that
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: I cast, for lack of a better word, in my book,
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: in my story. I have always been so fascinated with
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: the wives of men who are accused of sexual misconduct.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: So one of my characters is a woman who whose
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: husband has been accused of sexual misconduct, and she wants
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: a chance to tell her own narrative. And she struggles
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: within the pages of my book, as do a lot
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: of the women, actually, in the pages of my book.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: They struggle with the perceived narrative of what the public,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: who the public thinks they are. There's one woman who's
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: married to an athlete, and she struggles with, you know,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: how the internet tears her apart and assumes she's just
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: a gold digger. And this woman who was married to
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: the individual who's accused of sexual misconduct. I've always been
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: so fascinated with the Annette Lowers and the Georgina Chapmans
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: because I feel like we never really got to hear
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: from them. It's funny, when I was doing the research
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: for this, I was really hard pressed to find interviews
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: with those women, with the wives. And in talking to
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: well-educated girlfriends of mine, They had such distinct opinions saying, oh,
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: she knew about it all the time. And if she didn't,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: that's on her. And I was like, whoa, wait a second.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: You've never met them. You don't know them. And so
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: it's so interesting for you to say that, that we
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: do tend to do that as a society. We make
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: an opinion probably, as you said, based on our own
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: personal experiences, our own personal hurts, our own personal sensitivities.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: And then that forms and informs our opinion on these people. Right.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: So you started talking about your book. I want to
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: hear more about it, how you came up with the characters,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: when you decided to start writing.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: So I always wanted to write a book about female interactions.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: I knew even, you know, I come from a family
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: of girls. I have mostly female cousins. I knew I
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: would write a story about female relationships. I just didn't
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: know what the backdrop would be. I thought it might be,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I attended a private girl's school. So I thought maybe
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: it would be something like that. After I did this
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: season of Housewives, I knew I had found my backdrop.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: And I said, no, it's going to be on a
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: reality television show. The book is less about the reality
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: television show and more about the women interacting with one another.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: trying to find their narrative trying to reinvent themselves so
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: when I came the first step I had in writing
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: it was I cast you know who would I want
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: to see on a reality show and there was no
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: one in the pages of my book who is similar
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: to anyone on a reality show now or who was
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: on a reality show before so I used sort of
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: my own scope as I said you know I was
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: always fascinated by the Georgina Chapman and Nett Lauer so
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: I knew I wanted a character like that I was
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: in a group that I actually ran into by accident
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: at my sports club of women who were all married
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: to professional athletes. So it was fascinating to me to
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: sit with them and chat with them. They brought me
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: in because they said, oh, we know you. You were
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: that one that got railroaded on Housewives. You can join
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: our group because we know you need a friend group.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Come be with us. They were so sweet. So it
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: was interesting to see these women, what they had sacrificed
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: for their families and their husbands. I was fascinated by
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: that and to hear their stories. So one of the
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: characters is married to a professional athlete who was an
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: athlete herself before, because a lot of them have athletic
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: backgrounds themselves. They give that up or they are forced
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: to give it up because of injury. And you can't
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: necessarily have two star athletes in a family and what
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: they go through. I mean, there's the sacrifice is just insurmountable.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: I have another woman. Another character is a CEO of
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: a sex toy company. Another one who is a fading
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: pop star. And then of course I had to have
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: a social influencer in there because actually it's interesting. My
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: social influencer has a sugar daddy and I was listening
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: to your podcast with.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that. Tell me more.
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: Fascinating.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: I loved that. So yeah, I wanted to have that
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: because I had, you know, I'd heard a lot of stories.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: It's far more common than you think. A lot more common. Actually,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: there was an article about me in one of the
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: British tabloids because I shared with a journalist. I said,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: she said, what was the strangest comment you ever got
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: on the internet? And I said, well, I had someone
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: offer to be my sugar daddy. And so first of all,
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: the trolls were going, sugar daddy? You mean like sugar granddaddy?
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: You're so old. I was like, yeah, yeah, okay. I'm
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: no sugar baby, but... but I said for $ 5, 000 a
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: week and I laughed and I showed my husband I
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: said you got to be kidding it's going to cost
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: a lot more than that so and then they.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: By the time you do your hair and makeup all
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: your clothes they don't know what that's hysterical so how
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: did you get um the character for that did you
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: know someone in particular.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: It was informed by, a lot of my characters were
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: informed by a lot of people. So I didn't know
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: one person in particular, but I had heard stories of
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: friends of friends, young girls at universities, all sorts of
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: things that would make your hair curl. And as I said,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: it's a lot more common than you would think. I
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: knew some social influencers who said, well, I don't get
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: this lifestyle just from all of the brand support, okay?
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Like you need something else infusing it there. And I
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: can remember hearing this going, What? Where have I been?
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: Why didn't I know about this? Right.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: I think there's like a taboo to it. And so
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: many people are very judgmental about it. But then if
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: they're presented with that opportunity, they're like, oh, well, wait
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: a minute. Let me hear you out for a second.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Let me hear what the details are. Because it's actually
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: very common. And it helps people get through school. It
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: helps people get through life. And by the way, you
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: can have real relationships that way. So people just make
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: it seem like it's transactional. It does not have to be. Um,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: and you know, I have plenty of friends that have,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: you know, that kind of arrangement and, you know, an
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: arrangement is anything you want it to be. A marriage
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: is an arrangement, you know, um, any sort of relationship.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: So I think people have to have a little bit
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: more of an open mind. So, um, I've been reading
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: your book, as I told you, I love it. I
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: think it's great. People should definitely pick up a copy
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: when it comes out at the end of May. Is
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: it available for presale somewhere?
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: It is. It's available right now on Amazon.com for presale, BarnesandNoble.com.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: On April 20th, I am doing a talk shop live
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: where I am selling signed copies. And a lot of
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: the characters in my book have signature cocktails. So I'm
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: going to be doing a cocktail hour where I'm making
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: all the signature cocktails. cocktails that go with them. I'm
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: going to be standing by the end. But I'm going
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: to make the signature cocktails. And then we're doing signed
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: copies on talk shop live. April 20th at 8 p.m.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Eastern Standard Time. But it's also available for pre-order on Amazon.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: And as I never knew before I was in the
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: publishing world, pre-sales are everything. They dictate the algorithm to
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: the distributors for carrying the book in bricks and mortar stores.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: I had never bought a book in a pre-sale before.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: I always thought, no, wait, I'll grab it when it
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: comes out. Pre-sales are everything. And Jenna Bush Hager is
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: doing a great job of educating the world at large
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: through her book program, going buy the author's book in
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: a pre-sale, please. It really helps. So pre-sale purchases are everything.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: Most hated on amazon.com. The Pink Book.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: It's beautiful, the cover. And also, what would you say
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: to people who are looking to write their own book
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: or having a hard time figuring out their characters or
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: how to sit down and really do it? Because I
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: think a lot of people think they need to get
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: a ghostwriter. What's your advice for people wanting to get
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: into publishing?
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: I would say sit down and start doing it. Sit
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: down and start writing it. You don't have to start
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: writing from the beginning. Sit down and start writing from
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: where you are. I heard Margaret Atwood interviewed and someone said,
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: you know, why she wrote her recent book is a
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: book of short stories. And they said, well, why didn't
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: you put more stories in the book? And she said,
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: let me tell you something. If an author put everything
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: they wanted to in a book, it would be this big.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: So where my book started was this big, where the
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: book ended up was this big. Again, just like I said,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: with acting and reality television, it's so much easier to
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: trim down than it is to fluff out and to
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: draw out. So honestly, I would say, you know, if
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: you have a story to tell and believe me, I
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: am such a big believer that everybody has a story
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: to tell. You have a story to tell. Sit down
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: and start writing where you are. Then you can deal with,
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: do I want to make this a flashback? How am
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: I going to inform the character? There's a lot of
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: psychology in writing. You get in the weeds. There were
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: some days, because I drew, while this book, it's not
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: a calculated tell-all. It is not informed. It's not what
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: happened to me. It's not a vaguely... cutely veiled tell
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: all or anything like that of what I experienced. I
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: did draw from some of my own personal emotions and
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: feelings from the show. So there were days I had
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: to get in the weeds with the characters. And if
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: someone says to me, you know, which character is the
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: most like you, I will say Dahlia, the lead character
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: by all means, because she is the one who's incredibly
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: emotionally intelligent. That being said, there's a little bit of
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: Kara in every one of these six ladies.
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Even the evil villain. I will say I have had
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: some really mean thoughts about people and So there's a
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: little bit of me in everything. But my advice for
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: a writer is write. You don't write by keeping it
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: up here. Someone once said to me, if you want
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: to be an actor, don't say Shakespeare to a flower
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: in the field. Same with writing. Get it done. Get
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: out there. Start writing. Start putting it down. You'll be amazed.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Start in the middle. You'll be amazed where you end up.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: You'll be amazed where you can take it to the beginning. Right.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: That's great advice.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Where can people find you if they want to find
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: you on Instagram or websites?
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you. My Instagram is at Kara Alloway with a K,
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: K-A-R-A Alloway. And my website is karaalloway.com.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: So everyone should go and pick up a copy of
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: this book. It's so great. I cannot wait to go
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: home and finish it tonight. That's my plan. It's raining here.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: So that's what I'm going to go do, curl up
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: and read it. So thank you so much for being
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: here with me. And I can't wait to see what
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: your future holds.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed this.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: And you've given me a new goal. I'm going to
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: do a handstand by the end of next year.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, gosh.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: I can measure up to you. I'm so impressed with
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: your handstand.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: By the way, that's all smoke. No, that's all smoke
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: and mirrors, too. You just have to get the camera
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: to get that shot, you know, right when you're straight
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: up and then you fall down in the sand. So
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: thank you. It's all in the edit.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Right. That's right.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: OK, take care.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Rachel Yucatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: and give us a five-star rating and review. You can
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: support the show by joining our Patreon at patreon.com slash
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: misunderstood with Rachel Yucatel. Do you have ideas for the
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: show or want to reach out? Email us at infomisunderstoodpodcast
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: at gmail.com. That's spelled M-I-S-S understood. Thank you so much,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: and I'll see you next time.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Don't miss the USL Championship Final on CBS, November 21st
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: at noon Eastern. Will the Pittsburgh Riverhounds retain their crown,
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: or will new title winners emerge? Don't miss the conclusion
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: to the 2026 season, Saturday, November 21st, noon Eastern, on CBS.