Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Jules Sherwood (Of Porcupine Kiss) | The Christian Reeve Podcast #230

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Jules Sherwood (Of Porcupine Kiss) | The Christian Reeve Podcast #230 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reed
• 0:03
  Podcast. Today's guest is Mr. Jules
• 0:05
  Sherwood of Porcupine Kiss. He's a good friend of mine and
• 0:09
  it's this has been a long time coming.
• 0:10
  Welcome to the show, man. How you doing?
• 0:12
  Yeah, really good. Thank you.
• 0:14
  Thanks for having us. It is an absolute honor to be
• 0:16
  part of your show. So yeah, I really appreciate
• 0:19
  you. No, you're doing me a massive
• 0:21
  solid we had. We had a our show fall through
• 0:24
  today and Jewels, wonderful Jewels came through and helped
• 0:27
  us out last minute. And to be honest like I said
• 0:29
  before this has been a long time coming because we'd spoken about
• 0:33
  it and I honestly I was just waiting on you.
• 0:38
  I was like you know it's open platform waiting and yeah here
• 0:43
  we are man. And you know, I mean we've we've
• 0:46
  obviously we've become friends originally through me and on
• 0:50
  TikTok and then we sort of like just became friends outside of
• 0:53
  that and everything. And you told me some interesting
• 0:56
  stories over the years. It's been that long.
• 1:01
  But I I guess I kind of wanted to to deep dive into the band,
• 1:05
  into you and everything in between like I do with everyone.
• 1:08
  So this is going to feel a bit different.
• 1:10
  But for everyone listening it would be a nice insight into you
• 1:15
  behind the musician, behind the man.
• 1:17
  So why don't we just kind of jump into how you originally
• 1:21
  kind of got into music? Okay.
• 1:25
  Yeah. So I can tell you parts of this,
• 1:28
  but there's other parts that I won't.
• 1:31
  But a Long story short, music is my antidepressant.
• 1:35
  And at the end of the day, right through, I mean, I've been doing
• 1:38
  it. I don't even know how long I've
• 1:40
  been planning. I'd say about.
• 1:44
  Coming up 20 years and even to this day, it's for me, it's all
• 1:49
  about my mental health and music is.
• 1:52
  It's the one time in my life that I can switch off and I can
• 1:57
  just singularly think of the music and just the music and
• 2:02
  it's it's a relief for me. So it started off as when I was
• 2:07
  a teenager I was struggling like a lot of people out there and.
• 2:13
  Yeah, I was, I was homeless for a while and a friend of mine
• 2:17
  literally turned around to me and said, look, here's a guitar
• 2:21
  and you know, use it to try and help you use it to try and just
• 2:24
  give you a distraction to get through.
• 2:26
  And I was a bit like, no, I can't, I can't take a guitar.
• 2:29
  Like I'll, I'll break it, I'll lose it.
• 2:31
  It's going to get damaged. It's going to be living outside.
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  And he just said, look, I really don't if if it helps you out, I
• 2:37
  really don't mind. So I used to go into the middle
• 2:39
  of a field when I couldn't sleep at about 1212 in the morning
• 2:43
  going to a field so nobody can hear me and I'm not disturbing
• 2:46
  anyone. And and I used to sit there and
• 2:49
  I used to just lie down and I just used to twiddle and I just
• 2:52
  used to try and. Play chords and notes and go, Oh
• 2:57
  no, that sounds awful. Don't do that.
• 2:58
  And then, oh, but you know what? If I put my finger on this one
• 3:01
  that works, and then that works with that one.
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  And before you know it, over a period of six months, I taught
• 3:07
  myself how to play in the middle of the field, normally at about
• 3:09
  1-2 in the morning. And that's how it started for
• 3:12
  me. And.
• 3:13
  Going slightly off topic, I think that genuinely helped me
• 3:17
  sort my life out, get get in the housing, got into a full time
• 3:20
  job and I think because it created the positivity of my
• 3:24
  mental health, that allowed me to almost view things
• 3:26
  differently. So rather than kind of not
• 3:28
  seeing a way out, I became a bit more what if I tried this and
• 3:31
  what if I tried that? And I think that came from
• 3:35
  having the guitar and having a friend turn around and and just
• 3:39
  say just try it. And it was the best thing ever.
• 3:42
  And then from that, obviously my life's growing time's gone by.
• 3:46
  My life's improved a lot. I've I've got some wonderful
• 3:49
  children now I've got. I'm very proud to say that I'm a
• 3:52
  family man and all the little things I've always wanted to do
• 3:57
  are slowly coming true with a lot of hard work and dedication
• 4:00
  and a few swear words. But they're coming true.
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  And I think it does all stem from music and and from the way
• 4:06
  in which it is. Designed into my mental health.
• 4:10
  So I, for people that know me, know that I don't particularly
• 4:14
  sing. And singing is not very natural
• 4:16
  to me. It is something that I do a lot
• 4:18
  more of now, but it's only a recent thing in the last couple
• 4:21
  of years. So for me, music was always my
• 4:24
  number one and all of my emotions would come out in an
• 4:27
  instrumental way. So the way in which I wrote the
• 4:30
  guitar, the way in which I would try and throw my emotions out
• 4:33
  was was in my playing rather than the majority of.
• 4:38
  Musicians, I say, would probably do it with their vocals, and for
• 4:41
  me, I've done it in the instrumental.
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  And then as time goes by, obviously I met up with the guys
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  and I had an offer for the Light to.
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  I had an opportunity to build a band and I just thought, yeah,
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  why not? I started, I started to join up
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  with two guys and we were going to do an acoustic project and it
• 5:01
  was me going from being a bedroom player to being in a
• 5:04
  band and working with others. And it failed before it started.
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  And every time we went to meet, it never happened.
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  And at the time, I was working in a cult as a supervisor, and
• 5:15
  there was a guy that used to come in at the end of every
• 5:17
  shift, I'd be locking up and we'd stop and we chat for 10
• 5:20
  minutes. Another musician.
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  And how's your band going? We haven't rehearsed in months.
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  How's yours? Now?
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  We still haven't met up yet. And this went on for every most
• 5:28
  nights for about 3 weeks. And after about 3 weeks, 4 weeks
• 5:32
  we both turned around and went won't we start our own band?
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  And I said, well, what have you got?
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  And he turned around to me and was like, I've got a drama that
• 5:38
  will come with me. And I turned around and he was
• 5:41
  like, and I'm a singer and I was like, well, I can do guitar, I
• 5:45
  said. And I know someone for bass as
• 5:46
  well. And I know of somebody that does
• 5:49
  keyboards, but I don't really know them like, so we we
• 5:54
  basically went, let's do it and we made a load of phone calls,
• 5:56
  we set a date in the studio and we just went right on this day,
• 6:00
  everyone meet up and see what happens.
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  And ever since that day, that was about just under 14 years
• 6:08
  ago. So just under 14 years ago, we
• 6:10
  all met up on this day we got in A room.
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  And the The funny thing for me, especially with this band, is
• 6:17
  that every single band member came from another band, and
• 6:20
  every other band members a little bit older than me as
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  well. They're more experienced,
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  they've been in music for longer, they've all got stage
• 6:27
  and you know, and then there's me, the the, the little guy, shy
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  as anything and I'm just a bedroom player that's never
• 6:34
  worked with anyone else. And we got in this studio and
• 6:39
  it's where do you start? Where do you start when you?
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  You know you throw a bunch of musicians in a room and kind of
• 6:45
  go, hi, I only know one of you but how you doing?
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  And everyone's in the same boat, you know.
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  And so I just kind of turn around and was like, well, I've
• 6:53
  got these couple of ideas that I like like play at home, see what
• 6:56
  you think. And I've I've played them and
• 6:57
  before you know it, that was it. We we they instantly loved it.
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  I was more shocked than they were because I'm like, I can't
• 7:04
  believe you actually like it. I like and that was it.
• 7:07
  And the rest is ever since then. We just gelled and we were doing
• 7:11
  Tuesday and Thursday nights. We rehearsed and we've done that
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  for about a year. So I took about a year for the
• 7:17
  band to to really develop and go right.
• 7:21
  It took about after a year. It was like, right, we've got
• 7:24
  enough material now to go to a venue and and perform.
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  So, yeah, our first performance was August 2010.
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  In in Essex and it was for a pub that was joined onto a post
• 7:42
  office. So it was like all the post the
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  post office workers. It's where they used to go for a
• 7:46
  drink and that was the first one.
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  Cool one. Yeah.
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  Bunch of questions for you. Let's let's stick on the on the
• 7:57
  on the show side of things. So best and worst show.
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  Best and worse. OK, so for me, The funny thing
• 8:10
  is for me is the Best Show and the Worst Show were both the
• 8:14
  same venue. Yeah, it was at Chinneries in
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  the South End, on South End Seafront.
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  And I've always wanted to play there because I'm a massive fan
• 8:24
  of a band called Get Cake where Cake Fly, and that was their
• 8:27
  that was their local little hangout before they got famous.
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  And they were playing there, they were doing a hometown show
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  and I just went, I've got to go see it and I saw that and then
• 8:37
  ever since that I wanted to play there.
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  So I threw up an e-mail and I was like, you had any chance we
• 8:43
  can play here? And they went, yeah, sure.
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  And they gave us a slot and it was, it was wonderful.
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  We had the crowds absolutely booming like it was.
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  Yeah, it was massive. It was.
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  It was just a brilliant venue, brilliant people, a very dark
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  venue with a lot of neon lights and things like that and.
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  Yeah, it was wonderful. And then we done it again a year
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  later and a year later I snapped a string on the second song.
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  I had to quickly restring it on stage.
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  And you can imagine the pressure and the build up and yet you're
• 9:15
  sweating and you just, you know, you're in a panic state and
• 9:18
  you're desperately trying to get this string on.
• 9:19
  And I finally got it on and and with the show continues.
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  And lo and behold, one song in I snapped another string and the
• 9:26
  second string went. And before you know it that's
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  like 10 minutes of your set gone in a double string change.
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  And by then my confidence had rocked and I was die and and
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  from there my confidence and my anxiety was so bad that I didn't
• 9:40
  feel like I could grasp the music properly and we we got
• 9:43
  through it. But at the same time I got to
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  the end of it and was like that. Nah, that wasn't great like, and
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  I think my confidence was so knocked by the double string
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  snap that. That, that it threw me off my
• 9:53
  game completely. So yeah, that that.
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  For me, I would say chinneries. I'm pretty sure the band members
• 9:59
  they all have, every band member has a different one that is
• 10:02
  their best and worst. But for me it was chinneries for
• 10:05
  both when that happens, right? Cuz they always say like that
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  old saying that they the show must go on or like, you know,
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  just get through the, get through the song, get through
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  the song, whatever. Right.
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  Did you have to try to sort of just finish the song then
• 10:20
  quickly restring or like what were you doing in the interim
• 10:24
  between that? Like, you know, was whoever's
• 10:28
  like on on stage sort of like trying to distract the crowd for
• 10:32
  a minute or like what? What's the deal?
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  It was pretty much, I think, the first one I played the song
• 10:38
  through, but obviously if you snap a string I have balanced
• 10:41
  bridges, which means it's string maps.
• 10:42
  Like they all go out too. Oh Floyd Floyd Bros where it's
• 10:47
  called. It it's that style, yeah, I run
• 10:50
  over this. But yeah, the theory is the
• 10:52
  same. If you snap one string, it
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  knocks the balance on all of them.
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  So it's not like. So I've lagged it through and I
• 10:58
  was holding the root notes like the bass notes, only because you
• 11:01
  don't want to play the whole lot and sound awful, you'd rather
• 11:03
  play the bass and blend in. Good idea.
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  Not to the end and restrung it the second time.
• 11:08
  It knocked the guitar so far out of tune and because of the
• 11:11
  nature of the song itself, was very.
• 11:13
  Fast and you needed all them strings.
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  And I had not and it was right at the start and I had no choice
• 11:18
  but to sort of stop. And luckily our front man was
• 11:22
  like on that mic and he's just keep trying to keep everyone
• 11:24
  distracted talking about extra shows and they you always know
• 11:28
  you can you can tell when he's running out of material and
• 11:31
  you're like quick, go faster, go faster.
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  He's slowing down as he's talking and there's only so many
• 11:37
  times you'll be like you guys ready you're having a good
• 11:41
  night. Yeah, for the next song that you
• 11:44
  like, you done your OK, Who's, Who's ready?
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  We've been there, man. We've been there.
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  I've been there. It still happens now, but the
• 11:56
  difference is we've been doing it a long time now and now we've
• 11:59
  got the experience that, you know, like it's covered
• 12:02
  comfortably on stage. If we're doing a long set, we've
• 12:06
  normally got like a second guitar in the background, a
• 12:09
  quick change if we need it and. Yeah you just we've we've we've
• 12:14
  age comes experience and now we can.
• 12:16
  It don't matter if a string snaps and stuff.
• 12:18
  We had it the other day. I successfully snapped one on
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  stage and it wasn't a problem because we we we're just joking
• 12:24
  with the crowd. We've got confident we're
• 12:26
  talking on the mics and you know what I mean?
• 12:28
  It's it's we've kind of learned and understood how to get the
• 12:32
  crowd into almost a conversation rather than talking to them,
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  which obviously allows you more time.
• 12:39
  And I've got much faster extreme changing.
• 12:42
  So yeah, it is. Yeah, it's not that bad these
• 12:45
  days, but obviously back back when you're kind of new to it,
• 12:47
  it it you just hit Panic station, all right.
• 12:50
  But you know, these things happen even to the best of
• 12:52
  people in the world. It's not about whether or not it
• 12:55
  snaps, it's about how well you can cover it up.
• 12:59
  All of advice. OK, so I think I've asked you
• 13:04
  about this before, but what's the story behind the band's
• 13:07
  name? So we originally started as a
• 13:11
  band called Apex because we when we had our first gig the year
• 13:15
  after we met up, we booked it and we got to lie.
• 13:19
  I think it was about we booked it a month in advance and we got
• 13:22
  to lie seven days before the gig and they turned around and said
• 13:25
  what's your name? We're making the Flyers and we
• 13:27
  went, we haven't got a name and they went if you don't have a
• 13:29
  name, you can't play. And it was Apex.
• 13:32
  So, yeah, So we called. Did Wait, wait, when you did
• 13:37
  that, did everyone just turn and look at whoever said that?
• 13:39
  Like, is that why we're going with that?
• 13:41
  Well, OK, yeah. Yeah, 100% doesn't apex me like
• 13:47
  the best as well, like, but. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:51
  Just the Pinnacle top, isn't it? Yeah, right.
• 13:55
  Yeah. Which was not a good name for us
• 13:57
  cuz we were not the Pinnacle Top when we started out.
• 14:02
  But yeah, so from that, we've done our first gig, we got
• 14:04
  through it. We've done a couple of gigs on
• 14:06
  the name Apex. And we were looking for another
• 14:08
  name. And the problem was, was you can
• 14:10
  come out with all the most genius names in the world, but
• 14:12
  you can guarantee there is a band that already have it and to
• 14:16
  try and get it is untrue. And then Dave was our singer, I
• 14:25
  believe this is right, our singer.
• 14:29
  They he, he gave his wife a kiss, went like coming in from
• 14:31
  work or whatever. And she's turned around and got,
• 14:33
  oh, oh, you're a bit prickly. You need to have a shave.
• 14:35
  It feels like a porcupine. And I think David kind of just
• 14:40
  sort of said this passing comment at a rehearsal and he
• 14:44
  was just, you know, just as you talk his lads and all that.
• 14:46
  And the comment came up and straight away your brain just
• 14:49
  went, oh, porcupine kiss, how brilliant is that?
• 14:52
  And we searched it on Google and it doesn't exist.
• 14:55
  There is no Porcupine kiss. And it was just like, there it
• 14:59
  is, there's the golden ticket. But there is a band called
• 15:02
  Porcupine Tree. I got to ask you about this.
• 15:06
  So how often do you get asked about Porcupine Tree?
• 15:12
  Yeah, it does. It does come up quite a lot.
• 15:15
  Yeah. We played a venue in Chelmsford
• 15:19
  called Hotbox and. We got there and suddenly
• 15:22
  realized that they got us wrong on the on the front door and we
• 15:26
  were actually written this pork pine tree on the front door.
• 15:28
  Oh mad. And that's happened twice now.
• 15:31
  But surely if they would have written that, they must be like
• 15:33
  a mob? It wasn't a bigger than usual,
• 15:37
  I've got to say. Hang on, occupying tree look a
• 15:41
  little bit different, are they? In the Fountain of Youth for
• 15:47
  those for those who don't know, Porcupine Tree is is was like
• 15:50
  progressive metal band, I guess is probably the best way to put
• 15:53
  it. Yeah.
• 15:54
  Not not like massively massively known, but fairly well known I'd
• 15:57
  say for the most part. Yeah, kind of like a mix between
• 16:02
  a tall and something bit more ambient, I suppose.
• 16:07
  But yeah, interesting. Yeah, I I just wonder because it
• 16:10
  it must get really annoying sometimes.
• 16:11
  Like, obviously it's a different name, but it's just, yeah, yeah,
• 16:14
  sometimes you can't help stuff like that.
• 16:17
  Like, I remember my very first band, This is, This is funny.
• 16:21
  My first proper band was called Grievances Aside.
• 16:25
  And the song came from like an album name from some random band
• 16:30
  I I found in that compilation thing.
• 16:32
  And I was like, oh, that's cool. And people used to sometimes
• 16:36
  make jokes like, oh, where'd you get that name from?
• 16:37
  Like, oh, like, well, that's that's an odd name, right?
• 16:41
  And then when the band broke up, there were all these memes, or
• 16:45
  not memes. Like jokes about the fact that,
• 16:47
  oh, I guess they couldn't put their grievances aside then,
• 16:51
  huh? And it was it.
• 16:52
  Was it was just way and 1/2. It was a great joke.
• 16:55
  I was. I wasn't even mad at the time.
• 16:57
  I was like, yeah, that's that's funny.
• 16:59
  It's true. But you know the whole names
• 17:03
  thing is is interesting because I used to do the same thing I
• 17:05
  think every band still does Like you Google it, you see if
• 17:08
  there's any bands that have the same name but some bands that
• 17:11
  they don't care. Like I remember in the sort of
• 17:14
  early to mid twenty 10s there was this band called Young Guns
• 17:18
  who might still be around. I don't know.
• 17:19
  They're like just a straight up rock band from the UK and I knew
• 17:23
  someone who knew them and he, this guy had spoken to him and
• 17:26
  said like, oh, you're not worried that someone's going to
• 17:28
  like, sue you? Like that's such a, like, you
• 17:32
  know, it's not a unique game. Like think about how many bands
• 17:35
  probably called Young Guns and apparently like the singer was
• 17:37
  just like, fuck it. It just like, didn't care.
• 17:40
  It's like we're doing well across that bridge when we come
• 17:44
  to it. I guess sometimes it's the
• 17:45
  whole, you know, yeah, we'll just, we'll meet with the
• 17:49
  lawyers when we need to kind of thing.
• 17:51
  But it's like you can beat you. That's the thing.
• 17:53
  You can be operating in your home country for years under
• 17:56
  that name, but then there's a band that like, precedes you
• 17:59
  maybe a few years earlier, but you're like totally different
• 18:02
  genres or totally different vibes or whatever.
• 18:04
  And it's like, how are you supposed to know that some band
• 18:07
  in fucking Oz started in O3 and you guys started in 2010 and and
• 18:12
  like, you know they're trying to sue you.
• 18:13
  It's like, what? Come on.
• 18:16
  Yeah, it's it's all about being signed.
• 18:18
  I mean you can have a couple of 100 bands under the same name,
• 18:21
  but the minute one of them gets signed, that's when that's when
• 18:24
  you it's like okay, you got a rethink tonight, do you think?
• 18:27
  Because can you like still make the, especially how the
• 18:31
  industry's changed now, like you got like independent musicians
• 18:34
  entering the market all times. Like a lot of it from what I
• 18:38
  understand comes almost down to like copyright.
• 18:40
  If you got like a claim, you know like proof that you started
• 18:44
  operating under this name, don't matter if you got signed.
• 18:47
  I mean, surely? Yeah, because I mean we're
• 18:51
  unsigned, but all of our music's available on the mainstream and
• 18:54
  you can find us pretty much any way you can think of that that
• 18:57
  is used. That's the thing with you guys.
• 19:00
  It would be like okay. When was your say website set
• 19:03
  up? Like what year registered like
• 19:05
  something like that, Like first, like registered Usage of this
• 19:08
  name in a commercial aspect maybe?
• 19:11
  Yeah, and I mean, we're lucky because obviously we've come in
• 19:14
  on the mainstream becomes the copyright issue.
• 19:17
  And you can imagine I straight away when I'm like, right, I'm
• 19:20
  going to put my music and it stores, how do I do it?
• 19:22
  And then boom, the the copyright comes up and you start reading
• 19:26
  about it. And I'm lost in the first
• 19:28
  paragraph. Like, I mean, I don't understand
• 19:30
  the technical jargon. I do not understand what they're
• 19:32
  trying to explain to me. And, and funny enough with
• 19:36
  music, I find this a lot. The majority of the music
• 19:39
  industry is it. All it is is understanding the
• 19:41
  terminology and getting it over them.
• 19:43
  Big fancy words. And you go, oh, that technical
• 19:46
  word actually just meant that. OK, fine, now I get it.
• 19:48
  Like and then it's just not allowing the complication of the
• 19:51
  way in which it's written to overwhelm you.
• 19:56
  But yeah, so with us, in order to put something on the
• 19:59
  copyright, I go through a music distributor because it's a lot
• 20:01
  easier. It's a lot simpler.
• 20:03
  I pay like £19 a year and for that I can release as much music
• 20:08
  as I want under my artist name. And with that means that they
• 20:12
  have to copyright it. Because you cannot put something
• 20:14
  on the mainstream that does not have copyright by law.
• 20:17
  It has to be there for protection and for big companies
• 20:19
  in order to use you and pay you brought your rights.
• 20:22
  So for me it's nice and simple. I make a track.
• 20:25
  I submitted to me distributor they need 10 days and after 10
• 20:29
  days they've sorted out all my copyrights and you get like a
• 20:32
  little individual serial code and and and it's amazing and I'm
• 20:35
  so glad that I didn't have to deal with that myself.
• 20:37
  So to anyone out there that's looking at releasing your own
• 20:40
  music or has an interest in putting your stuff on the big
• 20:44
  fancy sites, it is very easy. It is very simple.
• 20:49
  Use a music distributor. If you try and do it yourself it
• 20:52
  gets way over complicated. It's a lot of hours and a lot of
• 20:54
  work. A music distributor, £19 a year,
• 20:58
  it felt like a risk at the time and I've done it two years ago
• 21:00
  and it's the best thing I ever done.
• 21:03
  And I literally spend 20 minutes sorting out the light, you know,
• 21:07
  putting it on on the distribution website and boom,
• 21:09
  they do everything for you. They do absolutely everything.
• 21:12
  They put it out to 45 different stores and and it's done, you
• 21:16
  know? So to anyone out there, it's
• 21:18
  very simple. It's very easy.
• 21:19
  Use a music distributor. There's a lot of them out there
• 21:22
  and they're all reputable. They're very easy to tell which
• 21:25
  ones are good and bad. You know, like it's there's so
• 21:28
  much on Google these days, but it kind of does it all for you.
• 21:32
  Thanks for sharing that, man. I appreciate it.
• 21:34
  So obviously you release music with Porcupine Kiss as a band
• 21:39
  and you also do your own music. What I'd like to know is.
• 21:43
  What is your approach to songwriting in both of those
• 21:46
  instances? Because obviously there's always
• 21:48
  a process for every musician, and obviously it's different
• 21:53
  when it's solo versus in a band. So what's your approach in both
• 21:56
  those circumstances? For me the Yeah, for me I had to
• 22:03
  kind of almost simplify it to make it easy and therefore it's
• 22:06
  a genre thing. So for me, and I think that I
• 22:08
  do, that's kind of rock, Hard Rock or classic rock.
• 22:12
  We'll always kind of go out of the band 1st and and go to the
• 22:15
  to the guys and I song write for them.
• 22:18
  But I don't write everything. What I do is I I create a track
• 22:23
  on the guitar. I'll kind of build my parts and
• 22:27
  then I'll bring it to the studio and I'll be that right.
• 22:29
  Guys, this is my idea. This is my guitar if in my head.
• 22:33
  This is roughly what I hear and this is what I want to try and
• 22:36
  get out. And then from that every
• 22:38
  individual band member will add their own pace.
• 22:41
  The drummer will write his drums.
• 22:42
  And the good thing about us is we can all criticize each other.
• 22:47
  So in the in the writing process there are times where I'm like,
• 22:50
  I'm sorry mate, but I don't like the drums on that and he'll go
• 22:52
  okay, no worries. Give me a minute.
• 22:54
  What do you think of this? And you go, yeah, that's great.
• 22:56
  And and people do it to me sometimes, even though I come
• 22:59
  with the premise, I might bring it up and then I hear them do it
• 23:02
  and I'm like, yeah, this is brilliant, but the guitar's not
• 23:05
  quite gelling. And then I'll just slightly
• 23:07
  change the rhythm or I'll change the pattern of which I'm
• 23:11
  strumming it or whatever, and and then all of a sudden I find
• 23:14
  that I'm adjusting my bit to see there.
• 23:17
  It's because I prefer theirs. So although I, I, I bring the
• 23:21
  idea, we do write it as a group, You know what I mean?
• 23:24
  Like, but I I kind of bring the concepts to the table when it
• 23:27
  comes to my when it comes to my independent stuff, I go acoustic
• 23:31
  because it's such a dramatic difference between the band that
• 23:35
  there's no way of clashing the two together.
• 23:37
  Now we have done acoustics as a band as well.
• 23:41
  We do actually have an acoustic EP out there.
• 23:43
  We've got music and we we do, we have done a lot of acoustics.
• 23:48
  But to be honest with you, that wasn't really out of choice,
• 23:52
  that was out of circumstance and situation.
• 23:55
  So with the band acoustics, it was because certain band members
• 24:00
  were had medical issues and they had to have operations and yeah,
• 24:04
  you know, they've been knocked out for up to six months now.
• 24:08
  To go without one of your members for that long means she
• 24:10
  can't be doing gigs, she can't be doing you.
• 24:12
  Do you know what I mean? Like and and rather than
• 24:14
  stopping and holding everything it was so because obviously you
• 24:18
  take six months off, it will take you a month to get back on
• 24:20
  track. So it six is actually seven, you
• 24:23
  know. And instead what we've done was
• 24:26
  we went acoustic because it's a it's not not easier in the
• 24:29
  respective writing, but it's easier in the respective
• 24:31
  performance compared to a Hard Rock band where you're expected
• 24:34
  to jumping up and down like idiots and head banging and fly
• 24:37
  that hair everywhere. And you know, with acoustics you
• 24:39
  don't have that. You can relax a bit and it's so
• 24:42
  if you're recovering from an OP, you can do an acoustic easier
• 24:45
  than you can do do a rock band. So we did the Go acoustic and we
• 24:51
  did stick with it for quite a while as well.
• 24:53
  But for us, not as musicians, acoustics felt a bit more like a
• 24:57
  job, whereas the rock feels more like a passion.
• 25:02
  And for me personally, acoustics is my main passion because it's
• 25:06
  how I started. It's it's kind of the roots of
• 25:08
  where I began and for me I feel like rock is very good for
• 25:14
  letting out my kind of aggressive side and my sort of
• 25:17
  frustrated or pent up side. But acoustics is where the heart
• 25:20
  lies. So for me acoustic is where I
• 25:23
  can really when I'm playing I feel like sometimes I can I can
• 25:26
  physically get my emotions out on the guitar whether that's by
• 25:30
  the way I adjust the volume as I play or by the delicacy of the
• 25:33
  high notes and and so I will try and write acoustically away from
• 25:38
  the band. I'll try and write it from a
• 25:40
  very emotional point of view and and and that for me is is kind
• 25:46
  of my favorite. But to be honest I've never
• 25:48
  really had confidence to release my independent music.
• 25:51
  When I'm with the band. I've got the guys, I've got,
• 25:54
  I've got me, I've got me group, do you know what I mean?
• 25:57
  So I like, I'm kind of my confidence and myself are kind
• 26:00
  of supported by the confidence of others.
• 26:02
  And when I'm starting to fill out them out of my depth or
• 26:05
  overwhelmed, I have other people that I can kind of talk to and
• 26:09
  relate to. And, you know, some other band
• 26:11
  members will step up and go, you're right, you look stressed.
• 26:14
  And I'm like, yeah, I just, I'm struggling with this and they
• 26:16
  go, no worries, we'll help you out.
• 26:18
  And so you've always got that network.
• 26:19
  And we're a family and I we're we really are a family.
• 26:23
  And we're more than just a bunch of musicians, You know, we're,
• 26:26
  we're friends, we're we're there for each other no matter what.
• 26:29
  After 1314 years, it is family because you have your ups and
• 26:33
  downs like families. You know what I mean?
• 26:35
  You have your fallouts and then you you're back like nothing
• 26:37
  happened an hour later. And yeah, when I'm on my own, I
• 26:43
  struggle with the confidence. So I've always done my
• 26:46
  independent acoustics, but I've only ever really shown them to
• 26:48
  friends and stuff and I've never really put them out to the world
• 26:52
  until recently. And it's only in the last year
• 26:55
  and a half, two years that that I have actually started to show
• 26:59
  my independent side a bit more. And as you know, obviously I, I,
• 27:03
  I very recently actually released my first ever track on
• 27:06
  the mainstream that's not Porcupine.
• 27:07
  Kiss and I worked with a wonderful musician called Move
• 27:12
  in Michigan and we collaborated together on a an acoustic
• 27:16
  singer-songwriter, very relaxed, very kind of almost verapustic
• 27:21
  music. You know, you could sit there
• 27:22
  and fall asleep tease kind of thing.
• 27:26
  But that's the first time I've ever done that.
• 27:27
  Whereas with the band I've been released in music for for years.
• 27:31
  So for me, there's a big confidence factor in music as
• 27:34
  well. I definitely think you should
• 27:37
  get that music out there, like more, more.
• 27:39
  So there's there's, and I know many people will agree with me.
• 27:42
  I think got pushed through. Get through that man and get it
• 27:47
  out there because it's it's it'll be stuff that people want
• 27:50
  to hear. And I know that when you post
• 27:52
  clips online and stuff, there's people dig it.
• 27:55
  I dig it. So there's definitely something
• 27:58
  there for sure. One thing I wanted to ask you
• 28:00
  before you move on. Is, you know, you've been in a
• 28:03
  band for a very long time. You said like about 14 years, is
• 28:05
  that right? Yeah, yeah.
• 28:08
  Our first performance was 2010. So yeah, 2009 was was the start
• 28:13
  of at the end of 2009 was the start of our band.
• 28:16
  That that's an incredible amount of time to to be in the same
• 28:20
  band and be with the same people and and make it work.
• 28:23
  What kind of advice could you give to?
• 28:26
  Bands that are forming or maybe bands that might be having some
• 28:29
  issues or whatever, like how have you guys kind of stuck
• 28:32
  together and made it work? Brutal honesty to be honest.
• 28:37
  I know that sounds silly, but you know, as you can imagine, in
• 28:40
  the early years there were moments where, you know, I was
• 28:44
  at my wit's end for whatever reason, at someone.
• 28:47
  And you know, you do have those moments, especially when you're
• 28:50
  jailing, where you need to learn and understand other people's
• 28:53
  opinions, other people's perspectives.
• 28:55
  You can't be too big headed. You can't be.
• 28:59
  You have to be strong and stern, but at the same time you have to
• 29:01
  give leeway. And especially for someone like
• 29:04
  myself who kind of comes up with the original premise and becomes
• 29:07
  the songwriter, it's very easy for me to be a bit too big
• 29:12
  headed. It's very easy for me to kind of
• 29:14
  think, well, this is my kind of thing and and this is what I
• 29:17
  want. And actually as a band, if
• 29:19
  you're going to do anything with a group or another person,
• 29:21
  you've got to accept that it's not your music.
• 29:24
  So even though I may have started it, that doesn't give me
• 29:27
  the right to it. Like I should allow and expect
• 29:31
  that people will change my music as we go along for the better
• 29:34
  and that I need to learn that I'm not always right.
• 29:38
  And so there's been a lot of times in the early years where
• 29:41
  we, which we try and get as a band of things, wouldn't quite
• 29:44
  work or I'd be a bit too big headed and go this is the way I
• 29:46
  want it. And in the year as the years go
• 29:49
  forward, we've learned that the best thing to do is just be
• 29:51
  brutally honest. If you've got any grudge, if
• 29:53
  you've got anything that you do not like that somebody is doing,
• 29:57
  you have to tell them, regardless of whether it's going
• 29:58
  to upset them or not. Being honest is the only way it
• 30:02
  works. Because if you even hold back
• 30:04
  the fact that you don't like an idea and a song that might seem
• 30:07
  like nothing at the time and then mumps down the line you're
• 30:10
  that sick of it because you're playing it regularly, that it
• 30:13
  becomes an issue when it could have been solved in the 1st
• 30:16
  place. When you're writing it going can
• 30:18
  we try something else? And regardless of whether you
• 30:21
  wrote it or whether you you're adding to it, you've always got
• 30:24
  to be prepared to suddenly change what you're doing and
• 30:27
  accept the changes. I think it's absolutely
• 30:30
  brilliant advice. I completely concur.
• 30:32
  But there is something interesting you've touched on
• 30:34
  there that I want to explore a little bit.
• 30:36
  So let's suppose you come in with a very, very clear vision
• 30:41
  for a particular song and you don't want to change this
• 30:45
  because to change it would then turn it into something
• 30:49
  completely different and you're you're just very adamant on this
• 30:51
  particular idea. Would you say then the that kind
• 30:57
  of an idea? Has to be safe for a different
• 31:01
  project, a solo project, or do you think it's still possible to
• 31:04
  bring that on board? It depends on how you approach
• 31:08
  the situation. So with our band, the majority
• 31:12
  of the time I have a rough idea and I have a guitar and I've got
• 31:15
  my riff and I show that to the guys and they add their bits.
• 31:19
  But there's quite a few times where a band member will turn
• 31:23
  around to me and go can't we just change the rhythm slightly
• 31:25
  like this. And and this is where I'm
• 31:26
  touching on this because I think, well, no, because I wrote
• 31:29
  it chicken, chicken, chicken. And I wanted that child or you
• 31:33
  know, and now they're asking me to take that away and I'm like,
• 31:36
  but that's vital for me. And we have had these moments
• 31:40
  and I would personally say it depends on your character
• 31:45
  because at the end of the day I've had songs like this where
• 31:47
  there are there are a few songs in the mix that are I've come up
• 31:51
  with it and I've gone you know what?
• 31:52
  I've got something very specific.
• 31:54
  And I've again, it's all about brutal honesty.
• 31:56
  You bring it to the guys and you say to the guys, look here's my
• 31:59
  idea but I feel very strongly about this one.
• 32:02
  So let's see if it works, and if you do feel very strongly for
• 32:06
  it, and you find that the musicians you're working with
• 32:08
  are not giving you the result that you want and you're not
• 32:12
  prepared to change it, then, then you've just got to go, all
• 32:15
  right, not to worry, We'll come up with something else.
• 32:17
  I'll take that and I'll bench it.
• 32:19
  I'll use it with someone else, or I'll turn it into a private
• 32:22
  project. Or you've got to accept that.
• 32:25
  If you want to be stubborn and stern and it's not going to gel,
• 32:29
  don't expect people to add to it.
• 32:31
  You have to kind of allow them to change it or withdraw it
• 32:36
  because being a part of a band is being part of a group and the
• 32:41
  only way to be in a group is to be an equal player.
• 32:44
  Do you know what I mean? So if you if you're going to be
• 32:46
  the one that stands there and stands around and says it has to
• 32:48
  be this way and that's it, then then that's that's that's
• 32:52
  dictatorship. That's not being a communal
• 32:54
  group and that's so you've just got to be very self aware you
• 32:58
  know and and I've learned very much throughout the years and
• 33:02
  that the in order for the band to work I've I've got to allow
• 33:07
  anybody and everybody to change my music and if I do not want
• 33:10
  them to do that then it has to be my own private one.
• 33:12
  And I have got other songs like the movie Michigan one that I
• 33:15
  recently released that was one of them.
• 33:17
  I was going to put it in the acoustic side of the band and I
• 33:20
  just felt like it wasn't going to get the justice it deserved
• 33:24
  because at the end of the day, as as band members with
• 33:28
  acoustics, not on natural side. So I then benched it, didn't use
• 33:33
  it for the band whatsoever. And then years later I met,
• 33:37
  moved in Michigan and then she had an idea and and I did
• 33:40
  rewrite the song. I restructured it from from what
• 33:43
  it was originally to suit her vocal, but I would for some
• 33:46
  reason I was just more happier with them changes and I agreed
• 33:49
  that they worked. Whereas I think if I had taken
• 33:52
  it to the band it just wouldn't have worked because it just not
• 33:54
  the band style. So yeah, you've always just got
• 33:59
  to be adapted to change, you know?
• 34:01
  Yeah. And you know what?
• 34:02
  Like I I can relate to this too. I've certainly made mistakes on
• 34:05
  this front in the past. I think your idea about like
• 34:08
  withdrawing I think is a good idea as well.
• 34:10
  Like if it's just not clicking and like, you know, it's button
• 34:15
  too many heads, it's like let's just move on something else.
• 34:18
  Like let's just do something out.
• 34:19
  Like, you know what I mean? Like and I can think of other
• 34:22
  times as well where like sometimes you got to be patient
• 34:26
  with an idea. Especially if everyone's trying
• 34:29
  to change it because sometimes the idea can become better than
• 34:33
  you ever envisioned like. So you know, like your initial
• 34:37
  idea sometimes might not be anywhere near as good as what
• 34:41
  then transpires later on. But you only know that by
• 34:44
  exploring it and and allowing people to kind of chip in and
• 34:48
  and tweak things. And I think I, I just say like I
• 34:51
  think it's important to just kind of be patient not.
• 34:56
  Not carry an ego with you and just and just let things play
• 34:59
  out and and see how you will feel about it.
• 35:01
  And you know if it's because a lot of the time, especially in a
• 35:04
  band dynamic, if it clicks, everyone feels it.
• 35:08
  Everyone's like, yeah, that's feeling that.
• 35:11
  But like if if like two or three people are like, then it's like,
• 35:14
  well, what we doing here? Like there's no point arguing
• 35:17
  over it. Yeah, see, we've had the exact
• 35:20
  role reversal as well and that more recently actually.
• 35:23
  So we've got a release called No Strings Attached right up until
• 35:27
  the one we just released. It was our number one song for
• 35:30
  quite a long while. And this for me was a bit of a
• 35:33
  shock because it's the role reversal where I came to the
• 35:35
  band with this idea and I was like, this is my idea and I had
• 35:38
  this strong imagination on it. And then my singer Dave turned
• 35:42
  around and he was like, he come up with this concept for the
• 35:45
  vocals, that he wanted to use the song names of all of our
• 35:52
  songs and introduce them into the lyrics and then create a
• 35:56
  theme tune for the Porcupine kids.
• 35:59
  So when he told me this idea, I was a bit like, no, this ain't
• 36:05
  going to work, man. I don't have that much faith in
• 36:08
  this idea. But you know what?
• 36:10
  He was so happy and felt so strongly about it that I just
• 36:13
  went, yeah, do you know what? Go for it.
• 36:14
  And if I don't like it, I'll be honest about it.
• 36:17
  And he come back with the lyrics and he played these lyrics and
• 36:20
  it blew me away. It absolutely blew me away
• 36:23
  because to me, the idea doesn't work.
• 36:24
  Like, how are you going to get, I mean, we've got about 25
• 36:27
  songs. How do you get all their names
• 36:31
  in there without it just being a jumble?
• 36:33
  And how on earth are you going to turn that into a theme song?
• 36:36
  I don't understand. So.
• 36:37
  So you know, you put your faith in your musicians and I thought,
• 36:40
  yeah, do you know what I've got faith in here, Let's see what
• 36:42
  happens. And I'm telling you now, the
• 36:44
  minute I heard these lyrics, it was the best thing ever.
• 36:46
  And lo and behold, when we released it, it was the one song
• 36:49
  that got us noticed and it blew us up because the the chorus is
• 36:52
  like Porcupine's going to play fill the river man, the bass.
• 36:56
  And then in the verses, when he's singing the verses, he's
• 36:58
  using them them song names in in in a proper sense and and
• 37:03
  honestly it's just it absolutely brilliant and it was one of the
• 37:07
  best things I've ever ever seen and I was so proud of him to
• 37:11
  prove me wrong. So and this is what I mean,
• 37:14
  you've you've always got to adapt in music, always got to
• 37:16
  adapt because if I had been stubborn and I'd been strong
• 37:19
  about that, then that we wouldn't have created this one
• 37:22
  song that then blew up a little bit and it got us noticed and it
• 37:25
  got us loads of followers and a little bit of recognition and we
• 37:29
  got radio plays. We got a radio interview.
• 37:31
  We were doing extra gigs from it, you know, So this one little
• 37:36
  song was a massive deal for our band.
• 37:39
  And it all come from this inspirational idea of my singer
• 37:42
  just changing the vocals and coming up with this, this unique
• 37:46
  way of writing that we haven't tried before.
• 37:50
  So yeah, you know, it's that was my role reversal where I felt
• 37:53
  strongly about something. I went to know what, give it a
• 37:55
  shot, we'll see what happens. And then wow, OK yeah, you
• 37:57
  proved me wrong. And it was, it was amazing.
• 38:01
  There you go. There you go.
• 38:03
  Like I. Again, I can relate to that.
• 38:05
  I think it's it's good to just let these ideas breathe
• 38:08
  sometimes and just see where it leads you, you know?
• 38:10
  Sometimes it can be a real, a really, really fun place to be.
• 38:14
  And that's what it should always be as well.
• 38:15
  It should always be fun. That's the key.
• 38:18
  I'm going to move it on and talk about our favorite app, TikTok.
• 38:29
  So me and Jules for people listening.
• 38:31
  Many people might not know this if they don't.
• 38:34
  Privy to my live streams, we have very different takes on on
• 38:37
  Tiktok. I mean I will say this, I am
• 38:41
  very grateful for what it gave to me in the form of like my
• 38:46
  core community and and stuff and it's got tremendous reach.
• 38:50
  You can't deny it. Probably the best reach of any
• 38:54
  app online to be honest, because it's very difficult to grow on
• 38:58
  any of the other apps. Not impossible.
• 38:59
  They've all got different algorithms and there are you
• 39:02
  can. Roll on the other apps.
• 39:04
  But the fact that no matter still remains, it's the easiest
• 39:06
  one to pick up traction on and if you put the work in you will
• 39:09
  get results that's it's just fact.
• 39:12
  However, I felt personally over the years that it's kind of
• 39:18
  become a bit of a cash guy. It's become a bit too focused on
• 39:22
  money and getting money at creators and encouraging people
• 39:25
  to just, you know, plug in and play, etcetera.
• 39:31
  And and also just like, you know, the app is a bit of a mess
• 39:33
  from a kind of like organization perspective, just like you know
• 39:37
  if you're a creator on there or if you're just using it in
• 39:39
  general, it's not got many great safeguards on there and stuff
• 39:42
  like that. But I don't want this to be like
• 39:44
  a all that sit and hate on on TikTok kind of thing because
• 39:47
  this is a conversation between us.
• 39:49
  It's an introduction to yourself.
• 39:51
  So really, I suppose the best question I want to kind of ask
• 39:54
  you is. What have been you're kind of
• 39:57
  like best and worst experiences on TikTok?
• 39:59
  Like both you for yourself, for the bands and just everything in
• 40:02
  between. So I mean for a start, I do
• 40:07
  agree with you with the money thing, it's very obvious, it's
• 40:10
  very quickly seen. But at the end of the day, these
• 40:13
  at every one of these apps is all, they're all designed for
• 40:16
  the financial gain and you've got the past it and just purely
• 40:19
  look at what you want from it and how are you going to achieve
• 40:23
  it. And for us, I can achieve it
• 40:25
  without putting the money in it and without asking for money
• 40:28
  either because that's not what we're about.
• 40:30
  So for me, I can kind of overlook that a lot more and
• 40:33
  just kind of like almost almost blinker myself and and just kind
• 40:37
  of use those blinkers to kind of really focus in on what I want
• 40:40
  to achieve out of it and kind of dismiss the rest.
• 40:45
  So TikTok is to be honest the TikTok has been a very massive
• 40:49
  success to the recent career of our music and it has also been a
• 40:53
  huge impact on my my independent side as well.
• 40:58
  So you know yeah we've been about for a long time but
• 41:02
  nobody's really heard of us. We've spent several years doing
• 41:06
  local gigs and gigging all around Essex and London and
• 41:09
  we've done some comps and you know we we we've got ourselves
• 41:12
  in the newspaper and we we've done quite a lot of things like
• 41:16
  that. But one thing that we never did
• 41:17
  do as a band is look at doing things online and and you know
• 41:22
  doing the whole social thing. We did use to advertise
• 41:24
  Facebook, but that was about it and we've done that for several
• 41:28
  years and you know so we're only sort of knowing in a in a local
• 41:31
  little hometown and it was only when we went on Tiktok that all
• 41:37
  of a sudden we felt like for the first time in our our career we
• 41:41
  were getting true recognition. Because as you can, I'm, I'm
• 41:45
  sure you can appreciate that certain countries prefer certain
• 41:49
  genres, certain styles, certain vocal types and things like
• 41:53
  that. And the number one thing that we
• 41:55
  first picked up on Tiktok was the amount of recognition that
• 41:59
  we were getting from America and from Canada and from Germany.
• 42:04
  And you know we were hitting a lot harder in other countries
• 42:08
  than we were in the UK and we never had the ability to to do
• 42:12
  that. So all of a sudden we're we're
• 42:14
  going out to the world rather than our local town.
• 42:18
  And and out of nowhere we were getting messages and comments
• 42:21
  and people directly messaging us about our music and we were
• 42:25
  getting people download our music.
• 42:27
  And all of a sudden all our streams went from in the 10s to
• 42:32
  in the hundreds to to now in the thousands.
• 42:35
  And it all stems from TikTok because of the amount of reach
• 42:39
  and the fact that we can get our name out there to other
• 42:41
  countries. And you know there are some
• 42:43
  genuine really good people on Tiktok.
• 42:46
  There are some wonderful people that have genuinely become
• 42:49
  friends, me and you approved for that.
• 42:51
  I met you through Tiktok and and you're you're genuinely one of
• 42:54
  my friends, you know like and that wouldn't have happened.
• 42:58
  I would not have this contact with you if it wasn't for for
• 43:02
  Tiktok. And you know that we our latest
• 43:06
  release, I released a song a few weeks back and it's been our
• 43:09
  biggest success we've ever had with the band and it's we've
• 43:14
  managed to hit. We're, I think we're on 2 1/2
• 43:16
  weeks in and we've already got 45,000 plays and that is just on
• 43:20
  one website and that is absolutely out of this world.
• 43:24
  We've not seen figures like it. But The thing is this project
• 43:27
  was the kind of designed around Tick Tock because I took an old
• 43:30
  idea of the band that we kind of abandoned because we didn't feel
• 43:33
  like it was good enough. I then rewrote it into a whole
• 43:37
  new song, and again a bit like the no strings attached that we
• 43:41
  were talking about earlier, we decided to create this one more
• 43:43
  like a theme rather than just another song.
• 43:46
  So we made it a theme on sirens. And I'm not talking about like
• 43:50
  ambulance sirens, more Pirates of the Caribbean style.
• 43:55
  And so we we kind of gave ourselves a theme.
• 43:57
  And then we recorded the song. And then I turned around and I I
• 44:01
  asked moving Mishkin, who I work with independently, and I gave
• 44:05
  it to her and I said, can you hear anything that you might
• 44:07
  want to add? She come back to me with the
• 44:09
  most amazing vocal idea. So I was like, yeah, great.
• 44:12
  So we had our first ever featured artist.
• 44:16
  And honestly, her voice is just absolutely exceptional and she's
• 44:20
  genuinely just a very lovely and positive person.
• 44:24
  And again, I only met her through TikTok because she saw
• 44:27
  one of my duet videos doing percussive acoustics one day and
• 44:31
  she'd never like, really seen that much.
• 44:34
  I don't think of the percussion side of guitar.
• 44:37
  And that's how we first started get talking.
• 44:39
  I I saw her live one day. I look at her live and I'm like,
• 44:42
  Oh my God, this person's incredible.
• 44:44
  Like their vocals are out of this world.
• 44:46
  And then boom, before you know it, we we've just released our
• 44:49
  own independent song called Every Day and and now she's in
• 44:54
  our first featured artist and I thought, you know what, it's a
• 44:57
  featured artist that I've met through ticks.
• 44:58
  So and it's incredible. So why not do the same with the
• 45:01
  artwork? So I then contacted someone that
• 45:04
  I got to know called Morks, who is an absolutely outstanding
• 45:09
  sort of she. She's a like model and makeup
• 45:13
  artist, just doesn't look like cosplay.
• 45:14
  And honestly she'll you'll go on there and you you never know
• 45:18
  what to expect. One day she'll be a full avatar
• 45:21
  character. Another time she's really gothic
• 45:23
  and it's all skulls and things and her artistry and the the
• 45:29
  makeup designs of that out of this world.
• 45:32
  So I spoke to her, we sat and ticked up and we designed the
• 45:35
  album of her light for the front cover.
• 45:38
  And then I ran that through my software, started to add my own
• 45:42
  touch, kind of gave it a bit of a darker kind of side.
• 45:46
  And lo and behold, between the pair of us, we've got this
• 45:49
  wonderful piece of art and I'm very proud of it.
• 45:51
  It's it's my best piece of art to date when it comes to album
• 45:54
  covers. And there you have it.
• 45:56
  We've got a featured artist doing the helping us out in the
• 46:01
  main track as vocals and we've got a featured artist on the
• 46:05
  front cover and on the next. The next one's coming out in
• 46:09
  about 3 weeks. Haven't got a set date, but it
• 46:11
  is coming out in about 3-4 weeks and our one and only Christian
• 46:15
  Reeve is going to be on the front cover.
• 46:17
  And again, you know, all of this has come through TikTok and if
• 46:21
  it wasn't for TikTok, I would not have these connections.
• 46:23
  I wouldn't have these contacts. We would not have 45,000 plays
• 46:28
  on the mainstream on a song that we've only just released, you
• 46:31
  know. So for us personally, it's been
• 46:34
  an absolute game changer because we've been able to meet up with
• 46:37
  the most wonderful other musicians that, you know, we've
• 46:41
  been able to include. And even like with Morgues,
• 46:44
  she's, she's not a musician, but you know she's been such a
• 46:47
  supporter of our music and now she's on the front cover and the
• 46:50
  same as herself. And you know to be able to
• 46:52
  introduce other people into the band and to actually kind of
• 46:55
  collaborate from both an orchestry point of view and from
• 46:59
  a musician point of view it's it's outstanding and it it's you
• 47:04
  know it makes me feel proud that that people want to want want to
• 47:08
  be with us and and and actually kind of like travel with us on
• 47:11
  this journey a bit and you know it means the world to all of us.
• 47:15
  And for me personally I'm someone that suffers with
• 47:18
  anxiety and depression and and things and it for me again it's
• 47:23
  it's a massive boost to my confidence.
• 47:26
  You know, like when people around the world are sending me
• 47:28
  messages, like just to let me know that they appreciate my
• 47:32
  music and I'm amazed that anyone even cares, let alone the fact
• 47:37
  that we actually now have fans and and people that are waiting
• 47:40
  for us to go live every Tuesday night.
• 47:42
  And you know what I mean? It's outstanding, man.
• 47:46
  It really is. And I couldn't be any more
• 47:49
  grateful. But the only thing with TikTok,
• 47:52
  as I say, is I do have to have blinders on.
• 47:54
  I do have to kind of focus on what I want from the TikTok app
• 47:58
  and and and kind of ignore the rest because it is very easy to
• 48:02
  get roped into the the financial side, almost be obliged to be
• 48:07
  getting into that side of things because it's kind of where the
• 48:10
  trend is. And so that is the big thing for
• 48:12
  me is understanding and learning to literally blinker yourself
• 48:16
  and get what you want out of the app and not to just get sucked
• 48:20
  in sitting there for hours on end flicking and watching videos
• 48:23
  and you know what I mean? Like, I have a very specific
• 48:25
  idea as to why I'm on that, and I think that's why it works so
• 48:29
  well for me. But you would you'd be honestly,
• 48:33
  over the moon, How many musicians are on there that are
• 48:35
  completely underrated all the time?
• 48:39
  Yeah, never played a gig, never done a performance.
• 48:42
  And you look at them and you go, you make me feel like a child on
• 48:44
  my guitar. Like, because these people are
• 48:47
  so exceptional at what they do and, and that's what I love,
• 48:51
  most of them are humble, they're friendly, you know, and don't
• 48:54
  get me wrong, you get your idiots.
• 48:55
  But at the end of the day, wherever you go, you always get
• 48:57
  your percentage of idiots. So you've just got to look past
• 49:00
  that, focus on the positives and just keep pushing for those
• 49:02
  positives. And so for me, it's been a
• 49:05
  massive game changer for the band, for my independent music,
• 49:09
  and just genuinely for meeting people and communicating and
• 49:12
  networking and just, you know, just getting that name out
• 49:15
  there. And and that's all we're about.
• 49:18
  We're not about making money. We're not about getting famous.
• 49:21
  We just would like to get recognized for the music that we
• 49:24
  do and and to know that we've made an impression on somebody
• 49:28
  else that is worth more than money, you know?
• 49:32
  And that's what we're all about, really.
• 49:35
  I'm happy as it's worked out for you man, and this, it's going
• 49:38
  well. I will add as well, like I'm
• 49:40
  very grateful for this little small community.
• 49:43
  I've managed to get on there and have sort of.
• 49:46
  Brought them over with me to things like the podcast and
• 49:49
  Twitch, Patreon and stuff. So I'm very, I'm very grateful
• 49:52
  for that element to it. I think a lot of my sort of
• 49:57
  aggravation with TikTok is not so much about what it can do for
• 50:01
  you because it can do a lot for you and it's it's certainly
• 50:03
  helped me in many ways and I am grateful.
• 50:05
  It's more to do with like how they treat you sometimes.
• 50:08
  Like I've been banned on there for no reason stuff like that.
• 50:12
  I've. It just had like a lot of
• 50:16
  aggravation on there and trolls and everything.
• 50:19
  And it's it's sometimes that can kind of be quite frustrating.
• 50:25
  But I think your approach is quite sensible, like having your
• 50:28
  blunt is on, not letting it gets in, just focusing on your goals
• 50:32
  and then that's a better way of approaching it in general, to be
• 50:35
  honest, yeah. And to be fair, the only reason
• 50:38
  I feel so strongly about the statement I made there was
• 50:41
  because I did let it affect me. I started for the first time
• 50:45
  ever. I stepped away from the rock
• 50:47
  band and I started going on karaoke nights.
• 50:50
  And even with yourself, like me and you, we used to split the
• 50:53
  screen in half, go live, and we used to take it in turns to do
• 50:56
  songs. And I was doing a lot of that.
• 50:58
  And it was all for me about personal growth and personal
• 51:01
  confidence and trying to learn to sing better.
• 51:03
  Because singing for me was kind of like my weak.
• 51:06
  It still is my my weakest point of music is my vocals.
• 51:09
  So for me that's kind of the biggest thing I try and focus on
• 51:12
  now. So I use the app to boost that,
• 51:14
  doing carry, joining the karaoke nights and things.
• 51:18
  And with that came trolls and with that come some very nasty
• 51:22
  comments. And because one troll got got
• 51:26
  blocked by 1 mod because they made a comment to me, all of a
• 51:29
  sudden I had an army of these trolls.
• 51:31
  Like every time I went live people would say oh it's Jules
• 51:34
  come live, come perform. And I'm like, no, I can't
• 51:37
  because the minute I come on your life, that's it is I'm
• 51:40
  going to get flooded within minutes of of these people with
• 51:43
  multiple accounts and that, you know, I didn't want to impact
• 51:47
  the people that I'm trying to be positive with, with, with
• 51:50
  something that's chasing me negatively now that hit my
• 51:53
  confidence, that made me feel awful.
• 51:55
  It made me even consider not doing it anymore on the Old Tick
• 51:58
  Tock because it hit my self esteem so bad.
• 52:02
  So you know, I've been there and and then I spoke to, I'm not
• 52:05
  going to mention their name, but I I spoke to one of my friends
• 52:08
  on Tiktok and he said why don't you come live?
• 52:10
  You haven't come live for a while and performed for me.
• 52:12
  I said, I know I explained to him why and he turned around and
• 52:15
  said right, that's it, We're going to get seven people in
• 52:17
  those boxes. We're going to mod every single
• 52:20
  person in them boxes. You come live and every single
• 52:23
  person that comes through will have them, and we'll have them
• 52:25
  on multiple accounts. And we'll use the fact that
• 52:27
  there's multiple accounts, you know, because that big red flag
• 52:31
  to tick tock that this person you know is a troll because it's
• 52:34
  not one person reporting them, it's seven.
• 52:37
  So I joined alive. I jumped in, I sat and just
• 52:40
  chatted and performed, and they done it all for me.
• 52:43
  And ever since that day, I've never had any troubles with
• 52:46
  these people. But from that point, it made me
• 52:50
  realize that this is what I need to do, and This is why I need
• 52:53
  blinkers. This is why I need to stop, sit
• 52:55
  back and not say I'm going to give up because they're not my
• 52:58
  confidence. Don't let them win.
• 53:00
  Don't let them do that. Instead what I did was I took a
• 53:03
  week's break to think about that, just to switch off.
• 53:06
  And then after a week I thought about it and went right.
• 53:08
  I need to know why am I on this app?
• 53:10
  What am I trying to achieve by going live?
• 53:13
  And is it worth it? And so I seriously sat and asked
• 53:16
  myself them questions and that's when I kind of have this plan
• 53:18
  and went okay. Well, I'm on here for this.
• 53:21
  These are the people I want to try and meet.
• 53:22
  The reason I go live is this. So now I specifically go live
• 53:26
  for very specific reasons and I have my blinkers on and I ignore
• 53:30
  the rest of everyone else in the world and just focus on what I
• 53:33
  need to get out of that app. And ever since I've done that,
• 53:37
  it's been wonderful. I've made more connections, more
• 53:39
  people done more collaborations you know and and now I've kind
• 53:44
  of never looked back and I find it so to be incredibly positive
• 53:48
  but you've just got to not get too sucked into the negative
• 53:51
  side of it. You know you've got to have your
• 53:53
  blinkers on and you've just got to you got to overlook it
• 53:56
  sometimes because you got to remember wherever there's loads
• 53:58
  of positive there's always going to be a a little run of negative
• 54:02
  and you just got to make sure that the positives always
• 54:04
  sitting on top. You know I.
• 54:07
  Couldn't agree more. Couple of final questions for
• 54:09
  you, completely unrelated to what we've spoken about today.
• 54:13
  What's the biggest mistake you've made that you learned a
• 54:16
  valuable life lesson from? That's a good question.
• 54:23
  That's a very good question. With regards to music, I would
• 54:31
  say learning to not be too big headed and learn to accept that
• 54:40
  criticism is positive and criticism is is something that
• 54:44
  you should learn from not something that you should take
• 54:46
  offense by. And the reason that I say that
• 54:49
  is I have had previous experiences with old members
• 54:55
  where me and other band members have just not gone and we've got
• 54:58
  into we've we've had points with previous but say 4 out of five
• 55:01
  of us are original and one out of five of us has been replaced
• 55:05
  five times. So our our base sort of player
• 55:09
  is we're now on #5 but everybody else is original.
• 55:13
  So for us it's always a bass player thing and don't get me
• 55:17
  wrong I'll get on with them now. But yeah, as I say it's it's too
• 55:21
  easy to be too pigheaded about yourself sometimes and be too
• 55:25
  Geo. What I mean like you've got the.
• 55:27
  The more that I accept people's criticism as as constructive and
• 55:32
  kind of read into what they're trying to tell me.
• 55:34
  Don't take it offensively. The amount of times I've taken
• 55:37
  offense by what a band members said and now that I'm a bit
• 55:40
  older and wiser, I look back and go do you know what?
• 55:42
  I could have taken a constructive positive out of
• 55:45
  that and I could have used that to got better and adapt.
• 55:48
  Instead, I took it like an insult and got my back up and
• 55:51
  then I went defensive and then they're more defensive and then
• 55:54
  and then it's just it's just a snowball effect, you know?
• 55:58
  So yeah, for me when it comes to music, it's yeah, be open minded
• 56:02
  at all times and if someone is being negative to you, make sure
• 56:06
  that there's not a positive you can take out of that because
• 56:09
  people giving you criticism half the time, they're probably just
• 56:11
  trying to help, just that they may not know how to say it.
• 56:15
  So when they say it, it come it it, it comes out like they're
• 56:18
  having a dig or it comes out like they're being highly
• 56:21
  opinionated. And actually if you read between
• 56:23
  the lines, they're just trying to voice an opinion and they
• 56:26
  might not know how to do that more respectively.
• 56:28
  Do you know what I mean? Like, it's too easy to get your
• 56:31
  back up because at the end of the day, music is very
• 56:33
  emotional. Music's kind of designed and
• 56:36
  created and and wraps around emotions.
• 56:38
  Certainly for me, and anything that has a very strong taken
• 56:43
  sense of emotion always comes with a very strong opinion.
• 56:47
  And as you know, if you love something then you cherish it,
• 56:50
  you know what I mean? And you won't let anything stop
• 56:52
  that. And so, yeah, feelings and
• 56:55
  emotions in music are just as important as the music itself.
• 57:00
  And you've got to find the balance of both, you know?
• 57:03
  And agree more. What's the best advice you've
• 57:06
  ever received? Never stop and stopped out in
• 57:12
  yourself. Honestly, they're the two things
• 57:15
  that I've been told and stopped out in yourself that I mean I am
• 57:18
  my own worst enemy. The amount of people that have
• 57:21
  said to me, like, you know, you need to, you need to do your
• 57:23
  independent music more. You need to, you know, like
• 57:26
  don't be worried about your music.
• 57:27
  It's great, It's good. And I sit and I think, you know
• 57:29
  what, I don't think it's good enough.
• 57:31
  And I feel like there's thousands of people out there
• 57:33
  that are better than me. And, you know, don't let
• 57:37
  anything stop you. Because the, like, again, the
• 57:40
  community of people that I've met through Tiktok are the ones
• 57:44
  that make me realize don't doubt yourself.
• 57:47
  Just do it because other people might see something in your
• 57:50
  music and you might touch people's hearts in a way that
• 57:52
  you didn't even expect. You don't know until you put it
• 57:56
  out there. And at the end of the day, I
• 57:58
  don't know a single musician that doesn't doubt themselves
• 58:01
  because we all do it, you know, Doubting yourself is not a
• 58:05
  problem. Allowing yourself to not do
• 58:08
  something because you're doubting it too much is a
• 58:10
  problem. You know so, and it's the same.
• 58:13
  It doesn't have to be music, does it?
• 58:14
  At the end of the day, it's a life lesson in music and in
• 58:17
  life. Stop doubting yourself.
• 58:19
  Be more confident. It's OK to get things wrong as
• 58:22
  long as you learn from it. What's the biggest life lesson
• 58:27
  you've learned so far? If you ever have kids, you're
• 58:32
  never going to be rich. There you go.
• 58:40
  Don't have kids, guys. Yeah, just kidding.
• 58:45
  No, no. Never change it for the world.
• 58:48
  But I'll tell you what, I'm never gonna be rich.
• 58:49
  That's for a fact. That I had to follow that up
• 58:57
  there. Okay, Do you have any upcoming
• 59:02
  projects or some final thoughts you'd like to share with our
• 59:04
  listeners? Yeah, So we've got a brand new
• 59:09
  one out at the minute. It's just released called
• 59:11
  Sirens. Please check it out because it
• 59:13
  is. It's got a featured artist.
• 59:15
  And as I said earlier, like we've, we've got other people
• 59:17
  from TikTok on this and they're all wonderful people.
• 59:21
  We will have a brand new single out in about 3 to 4 weeks.
• 59:25
  We're just waiting on confirmation on the dead date.
• 59:29
  But three to four weeks we'll have another one called Rd. of
• 59:31
  Dreams and you're one and only Christian Reef shall be
• 59:36
  appearing directly on that front cover.
• 59:39
  And he is the fine gentleman that will will be advertised in
• 59:42
  the face of our music. We are so.
• 59:45
  Millions. That face, It'll sell us
• 59:47
  millions and we're always on TikTok on the Tuesday night.
• 59:56
  We've just pushed the time back to 9:00 PM UK time, so if you
• 1:00:00
  want to check us out, you want to come say hello.
• 1:00:02
  We always stop and have a chat between songs and we're always
• 1:00:05
  up for a laugh. We have people come in the boxes
• 1:00:08
  for discussions and stuff. So you know, if if anyone's
• 1:00:11
  interested, anyone wants to come live, or you just want to sit in
• 1:00:14
  the background and you just want to listen and watch me make a
• 1:00:16
  complete and utter idiot of myself, then Tuesday night is
• 1:00:20
  the place to be. Been an absolute pleasure Jules.
• 1:00:23
  Thank you so much for appearing on the show.
• 1:00:25
  It's great to finally had you on the show and yeah, to celebrate
• 1:00:29
  you, man. And yeah, just thank you for
• 1:00:31
  everything. I really appreciate it.
• 1:00:32
  Yeah, I really appreciate your time, man.
• 1:00:34
  You've been an absolute legend from the minute I've met you.
• 1:00:38
  And I have seen you grow in so many ways in the last, what,
• 1:00:42
  year and a half or so. And honestly, you've really
• 1:00:45
  grown. You've expanded and yeah, just
• 1:00:48
  never doubt yourself, man. Never doubt yourself.
• 1:00:52
  I appreciate you buddy. And to to all the listeners of
• 1:00:55
  the Christian Reeve podcast, make sure to go check out
• 1:00:58
  Pokémon Kiss Go Listen to them go out of your way to check out
• 1:01:01
  George's solo music. It's fantastic.
• 1:01:04
  It's got my seal of approval. For everyone else, make sure to
• 1:01:08
  check out the Patreon as well. You can support the show.
• 1:01:11
  Support me, support everything else and you get access to life
• 1:01:14
  with Christian Reeve, my other show, my my show where it's just
• 1:01:18
  me. So you know, if you want to hear
• 1:01:20
  more of me, I don't know why you'd want to, but if you do,
• 1:01:22
  that's the show for you. Link to the Discord.
• 1:01:25
  Link to everything you could possibly need in the
• 1:01:28
  description. Thank you so much for listening.
• 1:01:30
  Be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the next one.