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DID Is In Your Office with Dr. Adrienne Fletcher · The Trauma Therapist

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Guy McPherson.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: So five, four, three, two, and one. Our folks, welcome back.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Very excited to have as my guest today, Dr. Adrienne Fletcher. Dr. Fletcher, welcome.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
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  Speaker 1: All right. So Dr. Fletcher is a psychologist, author, speaker,
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  Speaker 1: and survivor whose life and work sit at the intersection
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  Speaker 1: of trauma, healing, identity, and transformation. After more than two
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  Speaker 1: decades in the mental health field, she now speaks and
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  Speaker 1: writes about the realities of complex trauma, dissociative identity disorder,
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  Speaker 1: post-traumatic growth, and what it means to build a meaningful
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  Speaker 1: life beyond survival. Her unique perspective comes from both sides
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  Speaker 1: of the therapy room as a clinician and who spent
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  Speaker 1: years helping others heal, and as a survivor who has
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  Speaker 1: navigated her own journey of integration, loss, resilience, and reinvention.
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  Speaker 1: Her upcoming publication, What Integration Actually Felt Like, a psychologist,
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  Speaker 1: lived experience of DID, offers a rare perspective from someone
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  Speaker 1: who has walked the path of healing, both personally and professionally.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Adrienne, just a little bit about you, but
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  Speaker 1: before we get going, share with our listeners where you're
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  Speaker 1: from originally and where you are currently, and we'll dive in. Sure.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I love that.
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  Speaker 3: It's kind of a full circle moment for me. So
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  Speaker 3: I actually grew up on the East Coast and I
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  Speaker 3: left the East Coast to obtain a doctoral degree in
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  Speaker 3: the state of Arizona. And I have lived in Arizona
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  Speaker 3: for 18 years. I'm actually just here temporarily. I've relocated
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  Speaker 3: to California, but I'm in Scottsdale, kind of wrapping up
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: my 18 year life here in Arizona. But it's a
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  Speaker 3: full circle moment for me because Arizona is where I
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  Speaker 3: became Dr. Fletcher and And I'm actually in the process
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  Speaker 3: of changing the spelling legally of my first name to
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  Speaker 3: the more feminine spelling so that I will be going
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  Speaker 3: by Dr.
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  Speaker 2: Adrian.
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  Speaker 3: So it's been quite an evolution of healing. We can
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  Speaker 3: speak more about that later. But yes, so I'm continuing
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  Speaker 3: on in California, but I am here temporarily in Arizona.
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  Speaker 3: And again, full circle moment, because this is where I
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  Speaker 3: started my career. Well, I did work in mental health
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  Speaker 3: back on the East Coast. But in terms of obtaining
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  Speaker 3: my doctorate, completing a residency, and building a career, Scottsdale,
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  Speaker 3: Arizona is where I have the honor.
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  Speaker 1: To do that. Okay. All right. So how does all
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  Speaker 1: this start for you? Take us back.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question.
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  Speaker 3: So I struggled immensely in school when I was young,
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  Speaker 3: and there was a lot of abuse going on behind
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  Speaker 3: the scenes that I wasn't.
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  Speaker 2: Necessarily aware of because I live with DID.
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  Speaker 3: So dissociation blocked out education. The atrocities and the horror
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  Speaker 3: of my childhood, which has been a long journey, started
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  Speaker 3: therapy in 2012 and have been on the.
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  Speaker 2: Journey ever since, a path of discovery.
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  Speaker 3: But what started my interest in the field of counseling
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  Speaker 3: and psychology was an amazing high school teacher who basically
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  Speaker 3: saw that I was going under.
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  Speaker 2: I started to fail classes.
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  Speaker 3: There wasn't much hope for me to finish high school.
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  Speaker 2: I was expected to be a high school dropout.
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  Speaker 3: In fact, my therapist at the time back then was like,
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  Speaker 3: you might want to consider your GED. But this teacher
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  Speaker 3: saw something in me. She said, Adrienne, you have so
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  Speaker 3: much compassion and so much empathy. Have you ever considered
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  Speaker 3: a career in counseling? And I hadn't. She saw a
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  Speaker 3: gift in me. And I didn't want to just go
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  Speaker 3: for counseling. I wanted to go all the way. But
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  Speaker 3: my desire to understand pathology really started with trying.
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  Speaker 1: Hang on. Hang on, Adrienne. We're two minutes in here.
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  Speaker 1: You're already at your Ph.D. Hang on. I got to
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  Speaker 1: slow you down.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: You said there was abuse going on in the background.
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  Speaker 1: Is that abuse towards you, towards siblings?
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  Speaker 2: No, abuse towards me.
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  Speaker 3: So my father was involved in organized crime, and I
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  Speaker 3: was a victim of his from the ages of.
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  Speaker 2: 4 to 17. I was trafficked by him.
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  Speaker 3: And so you can imagine why I wasn't doing hot
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  Speaker 3: in school. And I couldn't focus, couldn't pay attention, was disrupted.
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  Speaker 3: I spent a lot of time in detention. And I
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  Speaker 3: was a miserable kid. I was miserable, and nobody really
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  Speaker 3: knew what was going on with me. But I was
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  Speaker 3: labeled as the bad kid, the oppositionally defiant kid, and
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  Speaker 3: just spent a great deal of time not doing so well.
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  Speaker 2: Drugs and alcohol.
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  Speaker 3: And this teacher really saw something in me, and she
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  Speaker 3: sort of took me under her wing. We had a
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  Speaker 3: lot of after-school conversations. She's still in my life today.
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  Speaker 3: We reconnected after 20 years.
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  Speaker 1: How old were you when she came into your life?
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  Speaker 2: Entered my life. It was junior year of high school.
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  Speaker 2: She was my U.S. history teacher and I was failing.
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  Speaker 1: So up, hang on. So up to that time to
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  Speaker 1: manage this, you were obviously, as you said, kind of
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  Speaker 1: acting out, labeled the bad kid, drugs and alcohol. When
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  Speaker 1: did that start for you?
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  Speaker 2: I started abusing drugs and alcohol around age 12.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. And what about siblings?
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  Speaker 3: I do have two half sisters. I usually don't talk
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  Speaker 3: about them in an interview. They're 10 and 11 years
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  Speaker 3: older than me and they share a different father, but
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  Speaker 3: just for their own privacy for the family.
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  Speaker 1: Of course. Yeah. Whatever you feel like comfortable talking about
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  Speaker 1: is fine. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: They were influential in my life though. They were, you know,
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  Speaker 3: they were, because they were 10 and 11 years older,
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  Speaker 3: they had our, they were already off to college and
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  Speaker 3: building their, their lives. But when they were around, they
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  Speaker 3: took very good care of me. They were, they were
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  Speaker 3: a solid, um, You know, I've never really thought about
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  Speaker 3: this before, but.
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  Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't have made it very far if I
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  Speaker 2: didn't have them in my life.
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  Speaker 1: And your mom? My mom.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a hard one.
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  Speaker 3: My mom passed away in.
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  Speaker 4: 2018 of pancreatic cancer, which is really the catalyst that
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  Speaker 4: changed everything because more of my parts came forward and
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  Speaker 4: it was finally safe for all parts of me to
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  Speaker 4: start sharing the reality of my history when I was young.
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  Speaker 5: My mom basically was a single mom.
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  Speaker 3: She left my father when I was three. They had
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  Speaker 3: joint custody. He wanted custody of me, and she thought
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  Speaker 3: that that didn't happen, but he still had access to me.
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  Speaker 3: I'll never really know how much my mother knew and
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  Speaker 3: didn't know. It's hard for me to believe that she
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  Speaker 3: knew nothing, but it's also hard for me to think.
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  Speaker 2: That she would have done nothing to protect me. So
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  Speaker 2: that's a hard one.
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  Speaker 3: But the loss of my mom, we had a very
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  Speaker 3: conflictual relationship. Um, but she did believe in me, but
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  Speaker 3: my mom kind of.
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  Speaker 2: Used reverse psychology.
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  Speaker 5: She would make you think you weren't capable of doing it,
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  Speaker 5: but believed in you at the same.
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  Speaker 3: Time, almost to instill this, uh, sense of you want
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  Speaker 3: to prove her wrong. So she even, uh, one of
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  Speaker 3: my sisters is an incredible runner and, um, she made
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  Speaker 3: my sister believe she'd never be a marathon runner and
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  Speaker 3: my sister.
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  Speaker 2: Qualified for the Boston marathon.
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  Speaker 3: Um, and actually she chose not to run it. I
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  Speaker 3: can't remember if she was pregnant at the time or not, but, um,
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  Speaker 3: we're all hardworking women. And my mom really showed us, um,
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  Speaker 3: despite all of the dysfunction and the chaos, my mom,
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  Speaker 3: She did have a work ethic because it was about,
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  Speaker 3: you never want to depend on anybody but yourself, which,
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  Speaker 3: you know, you can imagine this message, right?
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  Speaker 2: It can go both ways.
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  Speaker 3: You got to learn how to depend on yourself because
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  Speaker 3: no one's going to do it for you.
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  Speaker 2: So she really, all.
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  Speaker 3: Three of us turned out to be really hardworking individuals.
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  Speaker 3: And I myself have obviously struggled a great deal, but
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  Speaker 3: the desire to, when my high school teacher saw this
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  Speaker 3: empathy and compassion in me and encouraged me to seek
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  Speaker 3: out becoming a counselor, um, I was like, well, I'll
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  Speaker 3: become a psychologist then, um, because I wanted to go
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  Speaker 3: all the way and nobody around me believed in me
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  Speaker 3: except for this teacher at the time that I would,
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  Speaker 3: I would be capable of that, you know, to go
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  Speaker 3: from failing high school and barely graduating, but graduating by
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  Speaker 3: the skin of my teeth, um, to making it to
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  Speaker 3: where I am today is, um, I don't know that
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  Speaker 3: I always slow down to respect the journey as you
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  Speaker 3: caught me. I breeze by all the things and I'm
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  Speaker 3: just like, here I am today, but it's, uh, important
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  Speaker 3: to talk about all the The hoops and the struggle
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  Speaker 3: to get to where you want to go.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's not only important to talk about it. I
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  Speaker 1: believe it's important to share it. Because look at you.
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  Speaker 1: How friggin' inspiring you are.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.
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  Speaker 1: We're five minutes in, and you're already, like, so inspiring.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.
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  Speaker 1: You're welcome. So do you want to say this teacher's
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  Speaker 1: name or whatever, maybe the first initial of his or
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  Speaker 1: her last name?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I speak about her regularly, Miss Heather Allenback.
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  Speaker 2: Heather Allenback? Heather Allenback, yeah. She's an incredible human.
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  Speaker 1: I love people like this. Yes. So you get going here.
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  Speaker 1: You're inspired. You want to become, as you say, go
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  Speaker 1: all the way. What do you do? when you go
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  Speaker 1: into college, what are your thoughts?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, here's the funny thing. So Heather Allenback was
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  Speaker 2: my U.S. history teacher, right?
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  Speaker 3: So senior year, I took psychology and I wasn't assigned
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  Speaker 3: to her and she taught psychology. And I told my mom,
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  Speaker 3: I was like, I need Heather Allenback as my psychology teacher. Like,
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  Speaker 3: I don't know how, what you're going to do, but
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  Speaker 3: I need you to make this happen for me. So
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  Speaker 3: she called the school and I was able to get
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  Speaker 3: in Heather's psychology class. And my first paper was on
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: adult children of alcoholics. I really had a desire to
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  Speaker 3: understand my father. It's like I knew there was layers
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  Speaker 3: to him, but I didn't quite know what yet. And
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  Speaker 3: so that was my first paper. And then I went
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  Speaker 3: to undergrad at New England College in New Hampshire. Well,
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  Speaker 3: I'd actually toured a couple of schools and some of
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  Speaker 3: them were too large.
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  Speaker 2: I got very overwhelmed.
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  Speaker 3: I had a little meltdown in the parking lot of
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  Speaker 3: Southern Connecticut State University. One of my sisters had earned
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  Speaker 3: a master's there. So I thought I might really like
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  Speaker 3: the school. Um, and I went there and I just,
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  Speaker 3: I told my mom, I'm like, I can't do, this
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  Speaker 3: is too big of a campus for me.
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  Speaker 2: Like I, it's just too overwhelming. I can't do it.
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  Speaker 3: So a friend had recommended New England college and we
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  Speaker 3: went to visit and it was just small little liberal
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  Speaker 3: arts school in New Hampshire and I just fell in
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  Speaker 3: love and I met the faculty at the open house
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  Speaker 3: and it was a fit and I had some lovely
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  Speaker 3: professors there they ended up coming to my wedding decades
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  Speaker 3: later just incredible people and again there in college I
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  Speaker 3: was like I'm not sure what I want to study
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  Speaker 3: I'm sure this won't surprise you, but I went to
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  Speaker 3: my professor and I said, I'm thinking.
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  Speaker 2: About being a forensic psychologist. Of course, right.
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  Speaker 3: Again, trying to understand my father, but not really understanding why.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 3: So he's like, oh, Adrian, I don't know that you
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  Speaker 3: want to be a forensic psychologist. I took aggression, violence prevention,
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  Speaker 3: like an undergraduate class. We went and we toured the prisons.
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  Speaker 3: I was like, wow, this is really neat. And he
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  Speaker 3: was like, Adrian, in order to be a forensic psychologist,
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  Speaker 3: you really got to get into the mind of a
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  Speaker 3: criminal and understand why they do what they do.
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  Speaker 2: And he goes, I just don't know that that's the
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  Speaker 2: fit for you. And he's like, what about clinical psychology?
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  Speaker 5: He's like, I could see you doing clinical psychology.
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  Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't know.
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  Speaker 3: I was kind of disappointed, you know, like what I
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: wanted to kind of do forensic. But I think he
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  Speaker 3: knew I had a big heart. I'm super sensitive. You know,
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  Speaker 3: I can be tough, but underneath all the layers, I'm
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  Speaker 3: like an uber sensitive person. So he knew he protected
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: me in a way, I think. And so I started
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  Speaker 3: studying like abnormal psychology and I thrived in college. And
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  Speaker 3: my mom said, so I didn't do so hot my
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: freshman year. I had like a 2.5, 2.7 GPA, and
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  Speaker 3: it was an expensive school. So my mother said, listen
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  Speaker 3: to me. If you want to continue going to this school, I.
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  Speaker 2: Need you to get your grades up because this is
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  Speaker 2: expensive and you got to put more in. I was
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  Speaker 2: also pledging a.
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  Speaker 3: Sorority at the time, which contributed to those grades not
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: being where they could be. But I ended up graduating
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  Speaker 3: a Dean's List student honors program and gave my commencement address.
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  Speaker 2: But I was terrified.
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  Speaker 3: I did not want to come home because going away
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  Speaker 3: to college meant I was escaping my father. And I
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: never really understood that that was my great escape. Because
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: if I did not go off to college, I don't
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  Speaker 3: know what turn my life would have taken.
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  Speaker 2: And I had some struggles in college.
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  Speaker 3: That's where DID can be a brilliant superpower. So even
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  Speaker 3: though I didn't know that I had DID, I had
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  Speaker 3: very intellectual parts of me going to class and a
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  Speaker 3: couple of out-of-control teenage parts. you know, getting involved in
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  Speaker 3: college parties and sororities and things like that. But I
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  Speaker 3: had this one very specific part.
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  Speaker 1: Hang on, hang on, hang on one second, Adrienne. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So up to this point, I mean, you just started,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: you just started mentioning DID, but up to this point,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: were you aware of mental health issues, challenges present?
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: No, not really.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: I did.
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  Speaker 3: Um, I really struggled. Well, I had mental health challenges.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Let's just keep that real. I mean, I was depressed.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: I was again, abusing drugs and alcohol.
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  Speaker 3: Um, And I think I saw the college counseling center
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: for eating related concerns. I think I filled out a questionnaire,
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: you know, when you go to college and they ask
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: you questions. And I think I got called in to
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: talk about eating, eating related concerns. So I had a
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: pretty bad eating disorder. I'm not sure exactly when it started,
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: but it got pretty bad in high school around junior year.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: It's almost when perfectionism started to take over and those
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: grades started to get better to get me into college.
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  Speaker 3: So I had struggled with depression and anxiety and some
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: eating related concerns, but no awareness of like trauma and
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: dissociation or anything like that.
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  Speaker 1: OK, so let's go back to when did you understand
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: that there were parts, quote unquote?
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't understand parts until, well, I was told
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  Speaker 3: in 2012, because when I started, we'll jump around a
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: little bit and it's fragmented, right?
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  Speaker 5: And that's the life with DID anyway, but, um, and
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  Speaker 5: I say that with love.
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  Speaker 2: It's, it's, I, I smile, but it's a hard life.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: It's been a hard life. Um, With the awareness, I
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: didn't understand.
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  Speaker 3: I was told in 2012 I had DID because when
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: I started residency, I wanted to be a top-notch trauma therapist.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: And I knew that if you don't work on your
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: own shit, that you're going to repeat that in the
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: therapy room. And I always have a thing about do
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: no harm. And so I wanted to be the best
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: that I could be, the healthiest that I could be.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: So when I was on residency, I started therapy here
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: in Arizona. And the therapist started some EMDR with me
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  Speaker 3: and opened up a sexual assault that happened in college.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: but then it started to unravel and different parts started
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: showing up. And so she bridged the conversation around associative
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: identity disorder. And I left that therapist.
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  Speaker 2: I was like, no, hang on, hang on, hang on.
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  Speaker 1: Were you aware, had you been aware of that sexual assault?
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, but I didn't refer to it as a sexual assault.
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  Speaker 3: Um, in my mind, uh, it happened the night of
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: my senior formal. And, um, it's when I talked about
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: it in therapy, she was like, you understand what that is, right?
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: That's rape.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: And I said, well, that's not how I've ever thought
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: about it before. So that opened up what that ended
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: up doing was opened up some other trauma that I
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: was not aware of, you know, um, a lot of
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: denial in my, in my life. And I needed that
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: for protection. And that is Like the number one, you know,
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: I always, I have a really hard time with the
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: diagnostic and statistical manual with the criteria under DID. One
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: of the first things in there should be like continuously
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: struggles with a pattern of accepting the reality of this diagnosis.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just, you're like in it and you
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: accept it and then you're out of it and you're like,
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: this can't be real. You know, it's a constant battle
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: in your mind until you really do the work to
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: uncover all the layers. But I, and then what I
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: had been trained and taught about multiple personalities. So when
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: this therapist tells me that I have DID, I'm.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't have this. there's no way I have this.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: She doesn't know what she's talking about.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: And of course I had an ego and I was like,
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: you know, she doesn't know what she's talking about. You know,
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: so I quit that therapist and never returned and started
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: with a different one, um, who didn't discover it until
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: I had a massive unraveling in 2016.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Keep going.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Keep going.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: So the massive unraveling.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: You keep talking, and then when you mentioned the denouement,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: you stopped.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I struggle with that. It's massive unraveling.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: What happened?
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: It's a lot of vulnerability. Yeah, so in 2016, I
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: was all excited. I had worked for a group practice
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: for several years. He's still in my life today.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: So you went through college. You got your degree?
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: Oh, yes.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I got a bachelor's degree from New England College.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: I then went on to Columbia University to get a
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: master's degree.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: And now you're working. Yeah, I went.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: So I completed my undergraduate degree and then went right
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: into Columbia University for a master's in clinical. And my
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: professor in undergrad said, I want you to start there
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: because I want you to take the master's in clinical
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: psychology and then determine if you want to go all
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: the way for the PsyD or the PhD. This program
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: at Teachers College Columbia University will give you all you
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: need to make that decision.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: He was such an influence in my life. And so
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: he was right.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: I had a great time in New York. I struggled
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: because a lot of my peers that I went to
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: school with were from Cornell, Princeton, NYU. And I just
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: felt kind of small and insignificant from New England College.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: And the academics there were rigorous. They were hard.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: And it was interesting because it wasn't very collaborative where
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: people get together and study and share study guides and
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: talk things out.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: No, it was You don't really socialize with your peers
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: until after finals.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: If you think about it, it would be nice to
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: get together with peers and study in the library just
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: like we did in college.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: But at Columbia, no. It was head in the sand.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Do your work, and you socialize with your peers after
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: finals because it was competitive. And everybody wanted into the
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: PhD program, which was only eight slots. I didn't apply
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: to the Columbia PhD program.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't have the... I just... There's just certain people
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: that are better qualified for that seat. So I sought
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: out this ID in Arizona. But I took two.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Years after Columbia and worked in community mental health in
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: the state of Connecticut. And I served as a co-occurring
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: disorder specialist.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: At the time.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: And I worked with severe and persistent mental illness and
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: like emergency mobile crisis.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: So I got two years field work.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: Before coming to Arizona to earn my doctoral degree.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: So you mentioned this crisis.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: In 2016, 2016. Yeah.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: So I had already, so I went to the Arizona
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: school of professional psychology.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I earned my PsyD.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: And I ended up at a, a private practice here
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: in Scottsdale that treats people from all.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Around the world.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: People come and do an intensive that their primary specialty
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: is sex and love addiction and, Well, they treat trauma,
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: but they're the one thing that they're known for is
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: treating people with sex and love addiction. So they get
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: a lot of high profile clientele struggling with those issues.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: And it was the best training I ever could have
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: gotten in my life. I worked with every level of
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: trauma and I decided I wanted to go on and
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: start my own practice. And so in 2016, I left
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: psychological counseling services and started my own practice with my
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: mentor still in my life, guiding me, you know, encouraging me,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: telling me I had what it took to develop a practice. Um,
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: and then the first year that I opened my practice, um,
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: I got flooded with a lot of fear.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: There was an incident.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Where I was stalked and it wasn't me necessarily that
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: the person was stalking. They were trying to get to the,
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: to a spouse that was working with me. And it
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: created a lot of fear in my nervous system. And
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: there ended up, I didn't know what was happening to me.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: And I turned to my husband at the time, like,
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: I don't feel right.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Something's going on.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Um, was just really really overwhelmed and I just it
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: was like a slow deterioration and I ended up trying
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: to think back because it was just so scary my
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: therapist at the time and a psychiatrist that she knew
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: They got me in right. Oh, my husband at the
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: time talked to his therapist and she was like, she
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: what you're describing sounds like it could possibly be psychosis.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: And Adrian's so high functioning, like you got to get
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: her in somewhere like right away. So he found me
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: a psychiatrist and we went. I stopped working and she
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: put me on some medicine to see if it would
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: clear some overwhelm. I was saying very unusual things like
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: fear of the FBI, which all makes sense now, by
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: the way. my father's involvement in organized crime, but I
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: was saying what would sound like psychosis. So the psychiatrist
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: was like, I need you to take this medicine. And
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: I'm like, this is for people that struggle with schizophrenia.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Like I am not taking this medicine. She was Adrian,
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: you're unraveling and you're really not well, can you just
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: take this for a short time? And then I promise you,
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: you won't have to take it forever. So she, she
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: started some medicine for me and it cleared some of
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: the overwhelm. Because I wasn't sleeping, so I had.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Insomnia, and my husband was like, I don't know what's
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: going on with her.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: Sometimes she seems like she's talking like a young child,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: and she went from being able to handle everything to
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: not being able to.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Handle very much.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: I decompensated, 1,000% decompensated. I ended up going to an
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: inpatient psychiatric hospital, which was horrible, by the way. The
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: one I wanted to go to, I didn't go to
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: because I had been a psych tech there for years
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: while I was in grad school, so I didn't feel safe.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: I had an enormous amount of shame because I didn't
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: know what was happening to me. And I was a
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: respected clinician here in Scottsdale, so I was like, I don't.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Know what to do. Oh, sorry about that. Hang on
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: a second. Okay.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: The book that's coming out is about this little pupperino,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: but there's somebody outside the door.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Hang on, Adrienne.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I just want to say you coming on here and
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: sharing this is... I just want to thank you. I mean,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: it's a lot. You've gone through a lot. And to
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: be able to do that, I feel, is very courageous.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: And you're really inspiring.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a long time. It's hard to tell
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: all of these pieces of the story.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine. But I... really value you taking
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the time to do that and share this with the
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: people listening, you know, because to hear you talk about
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: your life and your journey and to see the success
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: you've had and also your resilience is, I mean, come on.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: It's really, it's awesome. Thanks.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: I think it's, you know, one of my best friends
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: is a psychologist as well.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: And she always says, with the story about.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Getting sick and being afraid to go to the hospital
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: because most trauma therapists don't want to send their patients
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: to the hospital because we know they're not great places
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: and you don't really get better there.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Some of them, of course, you do. But we all
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: know there's a.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: Reputation in the field that the inpatient psych places are
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: not safe. So, you know, I used to tell my patients, like, if.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: You got to go, you got to go because if
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: it's going to keep.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: You safe from harming yourself, Um, but I also understand
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: that you're not going to get the best treatment there,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: but if you can get some rest, if you can
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: get some sleep, get the medication worked out, that's what
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: those places should be utilized for.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: We know you're not getting like the best therapy in there,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: but it's a, it's a holding place for safety.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: So I checked myself in to a different hospital. They,
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: they were not respectful. They were laughing outside the treatment room. Um,
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: they were, and then a tech was like, Oh, you're
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: the psychologist on the unit. And I was like, can
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: we not call attention to that?
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Please?
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: I'm just a human being here for some help. Can
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: we not call attention to it? So it was awful experience.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: And then from there, I still wasn't better. Um, I
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: ended up going to Timberline Knowles in Chicago.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Um, and the.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: Psychiatrist there, cause I was really guy, I had a
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: hard time. I was, he was like, we want to
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: put you on this. We want to put you on that.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I'm not going on any of this.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not going on anything.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: And he was like, Adrienne, I know you want to
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: get better, you know, and I promise you, you're going
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: to return to your business.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: You're going to return to your practice. You're going to
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: live to tell this tale, but I need you to
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: really think about this now. And he's like, if you comply,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: you're not going to be here very long. You don't
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: need to be here very long.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: So then, you know, a couple of days later, like
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: I didn't have an appointment on my schedule to meet
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: with the psychiatrist.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: I'm like, well, where is he?
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: And so I saw him in the hall and he's like,
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: you didn't want to take any medicine. So why am
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: I going to have an appointment? So I was like, okay, fine.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: I'll take the appointment. So we met and he put
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: me on some medicine and he said, I promise you,
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: like the other psychiatrists, you're not a person that needs
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: to be on medication.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: We need to figure out what's going on with you.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: At the time, guy, the diagnosis was major depressive disorder
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: with psychotic features.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: So, you know, they put me on medicine.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: I was there, had a really cool therapist there.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: You know, but it was rough. It was rough, you know?
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: And then here I was in an inpatient residential treatment center,
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: witnessing all the things my patients have ever told me
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: over the years, right? Like the intensity of it, not
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: being able to have your belongings, you know, staff not
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: treating you very well. And it's not like Timberline Mills
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: is a bad place.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: It just is what it is.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: And again, you don't really get the greatest treatment. But
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: what they did have was dance movement therapy and art therapy.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: And those were the two things that I would do
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: while I was there.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: I loved it. And so, you know, I spent a
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: very short time there. Came out of there.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: And my husband at the time was like... You got
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: to get back to your life now.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: You can do this.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: You're going to return to therapy. You're going to slowly
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: get back to work. I wasn't ready quite yet. But
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: I took a few months. Continued in therapy. Met with
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: the psychiatrist.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Along the way... Oh, my husband's therapist... Had helped us.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: And I had met with her. And continued to see her.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: And I can't remember... I think it was after my
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: mom died where the additional parts of me started showing
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: up in therapy and talking to her. The timelines are
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: always a little jarring, like which therapist and when and
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: all of those things. But she really helped me. My
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: mom and I had spent some time not talking. It
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: had been several years. And then when we reconnected, within
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: four months of that reconnection, she was diagnosed with pancreatic
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: cancer and then dead within four and.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: A half months.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: It was a rapid pancreatic cancer moves very aggressively. And
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: a good friend of mine at the time said, listen,
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: my mom died of this.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: It's fast. It's aggressive. And if you want to see
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: your mom, you got to go now.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: And I will be grateful to her for the rest
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: of my life for telling me, if you want to
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: see your mother, you need to get on a plane now.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: So I did.
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: And I would travel back.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: And forth from southwest to the east coast to spend
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: time with my mom in her final days. And then
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: after that, there was another unraveling. So I was drinking
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: a lot of wine. I didn't know how to cope
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: with the fact that I just had this horrific inpatient
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: psych experience. Still people aren't figuring out exactly what's going
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: on for me.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get my life back together.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: I was so delighted to reconnect with my mother and
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: try to figure out our relationship.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: And then she's sick, and now it's like the twilight zone.
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: And my mother was not a very.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Easy woman to communicate with, especially towards the end of
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: her life.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: It was a lot. It was a lot.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: And I remember sitting across from her while she was
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: watching Judge Judy in the recliner. And I remember looking
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: at her and thinking, well, this is what Dr. Ashley
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: and I worked on all these years. My mom is
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: not well. And the psychiatrist at the hospital treating her
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: for cancer said, do you think there's something more going
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: on with your mother more than a mood disorder? And
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: I said, oh, absolutely. Of course, I didn't realize at
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: the time that it was also dissociative identity disorder. Um,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: and therapists helped me put that together. And, um, you know,
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: I don't have any documentation, right. Um, I can't prove
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: that my mom had DID. She's no longer with us. Uh,
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: but I know my own truth. And so it all
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: just made sense.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: But I remember sitting there going, wow, this.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: Is why I had to take some space because she's just,
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: she can be intense. And of course that generation, they
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: didn't get help. Like we had done some family therapy
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: back in the day, but my mom was a tough lady.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: She wasn't going to, a lot of fear and vulnerability there,
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: like a fear of vulnerability. She always had to be
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: the tough and strong one.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Um, so let's, if we can just with, with regards
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: to time, let's, if we can jump to how your
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: DID was diagnosed. Yeah. Yeah.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: So with my, so my husband had observing all these
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: things for years, um, you know, different mannerisms. He used
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: to say it felt like he was married to different people.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: You know, there was an angry Adrian. There was like
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: a little kid, very childlike. You know, a lot of
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: fear sometimes. You know, I couldn't be in the living
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: room sometimes at night watching a movie without a nightlight on.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: You know, different things. And the three of us put
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: it together. So my husband at the time, myself, and
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: the therapist that was helping us, yeah, different parts started
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: showing up. And so she sent me an article by
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Caroline Spring. And at first I was offended. It was
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: like 10 friendly tips to becoming a dissociation friendly therapist.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: And she goes, I sent that to you for an
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: understanding of DID. And I was like, oh, I thought
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: you were trying to tell me I didn't understand association
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: as a therapist. And so the three of us spent
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: some time putting things together and then I would switch
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: and show up as different parts to do therapy with her.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: And she was a big, big.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Part of my life and helping me put those pieces together.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: My husband too, who also was on the autism spectrum.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: And that was an important piece because of his ability
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: to observe and gather data and He had more data
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: on the parts of me than I did myself.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: And I will be forever.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: I would not be where I am today without his help.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: All right. Listen, I'm realizing I'm going to have to
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: have you back to have this, to give this your journey,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: the room to unfold, room to breathe. But let me
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: ask you something. What was there? a question, a series
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: of questions, a way of being that you wish a
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: therapist had given to you or presented to you that
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: might have helped uncover this sooner?
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, well, I think that one therapist tried, Guy,
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: you know, back in 2012 when I just wasn't ready to...
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: My understanding of DID was not what she was explaining
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: to me.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I was like, how could I... This is, you know,
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: I guess... I had wished the other therapists were more informed.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: I had wished that they.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: You know, they both treated trauma, but neither one of
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: them really had a clue about DID. And it's like,
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: you can't really fault them for it, but it's okay
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: to be upset about it at the same time, right?
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Because there's such a lack of education, training, and knowledge.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: And I myself, here I was, a psychologist myself, and
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: didn't see it in myself and struggled to believe.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: In the existence of it, right?
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: So it was it's again, I can't really fault them,
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: but I wish that had been trained to pick it
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: up earlier because it could have prevented that inpatient psych hospitalization.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: It could have prevented the, um, the residential treatment, you know,
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: there could have been, if there was a way, or
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: even the psychiatrist and the professionals that saw me well before, right.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Even on the inpatient unit.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: So it's, um, that's the disheartening part is that there's
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: such a lack of, of training and education that, that
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: it's often missed. They say on average, a human spends
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: about seven years in the mental health system before they're
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: given the correct diagnosis of DID.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: That's seven years of somebody's life. That's why I'm.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: Really passionate about appropriate training and education and helping therapists
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: understand DID is in your office. And if you think
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: you treat trauma and you're never going to see DID,
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: you're wrong.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: It's there. You just aren't.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: Trained to understand it or to look for it. And
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: so that's what I wish could have been different. And
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: that's why I've taken the risk to speak publicly because, one,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: a couple reasons. I want other trauma therapists to know
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: they're not alone and they should do their own work
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: because that's what makes them better therapists. And I speak
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: out publicly about DID no matter the scrutiny because I
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: don't want other people to have to go through what
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: I went through. And let's be honest, I'm privileged. I
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: have more resources than the average person. And I don't
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: want people with less resources to, they're going to struggle
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: a lot more than I even did, you know? So
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: there's just a lot of layers here and why I'm
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: so passionate about it. But I sit in the hot seat.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: I'm in the hot seat of skeptics and all the things.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: And it's been one hell of a journey. It's been
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: one hell of a journey.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: As we kind of wind down here, Adrienne, in the bio,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I mentioned the different ways you work and you kind
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: of talked just now about speaking and so forth. Share
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: with our listeners, What you are doing now, how you
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: are working, how are you spending most of your time?
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I've worked in mental health for about 24 years.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: I've been a licensed psychologist since 2016. And I decided
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: well before 2023, but around 21, 22, started thinking about
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: winding down the practice and doing something different. But I
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: didn't exactly know what I wanted to do just yet.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: So I stopped seeing patients one-on-one direct patient care in 2023,
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: appropriately winding down my practice.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: And closed it out.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: And now I do public speaking education. So I have
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: some continuing education classes on the treatment of DID. But
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: really now what I'm doing is stepping into more of
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: the public speaking space on the things that you're talking about, resiliency, vulnerability,
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: and sharing my story, not just about DID, but just
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: who we are as humans, because I believe anything is possible.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: So I'm more of an inspirational speaker now while I
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: do keep one foot in the field of psychology so
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: I can continue to educate. Yeah, I'm moving away from
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: the field because you can imagine what it would be
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: like for me to sit there and diagnose people and
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: do treatment plans when I've learned a whole bunch more
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: about mental health that has nothing to do with textbooks
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: in the therapy office. And the Western medicine model of
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: the treatment of mental health no longer fits in my
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: in my value system.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Wow. That sounds like a whole other podcast episode. Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: We could have a series guy if you want. I'm
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: down for it.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Finally, was it hard? Is it hard for you to
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: share this story, to be vulnerable given the fact that
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: you are a psychologist, that you are a professional? What
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: was that like for you?
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Well, it was, it was extremely hard.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: My mentor, um, when I came forward with him, just,
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: you know, um, so supportive and I was so glad
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: it went over well, cause I worked for him for years,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: you know, I was worried and he was like, no,
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: he's like, this makes sense. And I'm, you know, um,
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: I was always a stellar clinician for him. He always
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: gave me positive feedback. I was worried he was going
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: to think I was incompetent. He was like, oh my God, no,
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: furthest thing from that. If anything, you're able to.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Help so many more people.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: He was supportive, but I'll be honest with you that
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: my colleagues here in Scottsdale weren't so quite sure what
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: to do with me. I was also the president-elect of
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Scottsdale Psychological Society.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: And then stepped into president.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: And I asked, I said, listen, there's a lot of
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: things going on right now globally for the DID community,
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: and they need a lot of support and a lot
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: of allies.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: And if any of you are willing, could use your help. Crickets. Crickets.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: And I was vulnerable.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: I was at a big meeting of other psychologists, and
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: I was vulnerable. Some were kind after the fact, but
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: you could tell what I was doing was making everybody
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: very uncomfortable.
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: Like, you really probably shouldn't talk about these things.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Was the energy in the room.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: That I got.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: And I have not really spent time with those colleagues
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: since because I don't feel welcomed and I don't feel accepted.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Adrienne, you are amazing. You really are. I loved speaking
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: with you. I definitely want to have you back.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: I think you have so much to share. And how
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: do people learn more about you, your speaking, and so forth?
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: What's the best way?
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the best way to find me is just on
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: my website.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: It's drfletch.com, D-R-F-L-E-T-C-H.com. We just launched a new website. It's
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: just kind of more of me stepping into, it's like, again,
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: I'm still the psychologist, but it's basically me stepping out
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: of the field of mental health and focusing more on speaking.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: I do offer global consultation to therapists from all over
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: the world around trauma.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: DID and association.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: So I do still offer one-on-one consultations and packages for
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: therapists that want to gain more understanding of the treatment
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: of DID. So that is the one thing I continue
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: to offer the field, but that's where you can find me.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Okay. We'll have all that linked up here at the
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: show notes page at the traumatherapistpodcast.com. Adrienne, my pleasure to
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: meet you. Thank you so much. All right. Take care.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: Thanks. Yeah, you too.