Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / Writing copy that sells weddings - with Andrea Shah

Transcript

Writing copy that sells weddings - with Andrea Shah · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

• 0:00
  Andrea: Remember that for a lot of wedding professionals at the end of the day,
• 0:05
  while well-written copy is important, they're hiring you in part on the basis
• 0:09
  of your portfolio and your personality.
• 0:14
  Becca: I am Becca Pountney wedding business marketing expert,
• 0:16
  speaker and blogger, and you are listening to The Wedding Pros
• 0:19
  who are Ready to Grow podcast.
• 0:21
  I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life
• 0:25
  examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
• 0:28
  If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
• 0:32
  and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you
• 0:35
  love, then you're in the right place.
• 0:37
  Let's get going with today's episode.
• 0:40
  Today I'm joined by Andrea Shar, based in Miami, Florida.
• 0:44
  Andrea's a copywriter for photographers wedding pros and ambitious creatives.
• 0:48
  Andrea's goal is to help you find your voice so that you
• 0:51
  don't sound like everybody else.
• 0:53
  You attract the clients you want, and you actually sound like you.
• 0:56
  Copy is an area I think we could all do with some help with.
• 0:59
  So I can't wait to dive in a little deeper today.
• 1:01
  Andrea, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:03
  Andrea: Hello.
• 1:04
  So excited to be here.
• 1:06
  Becca: I'm thrilled to have you.
• 1:07
  I love talking about copy, but before we get into copy, I need to let the
• 1:11
  listeners in to what we were talking about just before we hit record,
• 1:14
  which is one of my favorite things.
• 1:16
  Disney.
• 1:17
  And you're thinking of coming to Disneyland, Paris, is that right?
• 1:20
  Andrea: I am.
• 1:20
  We're, we're contemplating it.
• 1:21
  I've got a seven year old who would be really excited to go,
• 1:24
  so we're thinking about it.
• 1:25
  Becca: People who listen to the podcast know that I'm a huge Disney fan, so
• 1:29
  if you make it to Disneyland Paris, make sure you let me know about it.
• 1:32
  And if you get over to London as well, then.
• 1:35
  We can exchange Disney tips and Disney memories over a
• 1:38
  drink, if that sounds good.
• 1:40
  Andrea: Absolutely.
• 1:41
  Becca: I would love that.
• 1:42
  Okay.
• 1:42
  Let's get back in to what we're supposed to be talking about, which is copywriting.
• 1:46
  Now, I think copywriting is an area that lots of people struggle
• 1:50
  with and I think that comes down.
• 1:52
  First and foremost to just understanding what on earth it is.
• 1:56
  So let's start with the basics.
• 1:58
  Like what is copy, what is a copywriter, and why does any of this stuff matter?
• 2:02
  Andrea: Absolutely.
• 2:03
  So copywriting is in short, it's the words on your website and it is designed
• 2:09
  to convince people to work with you.
• 2:11
  So we all need to have words on our site.
• 2:13
  Photos aren't, And the goal of those words is really just to persuade people to
• 2:19
  connect with you, to build a relationship with you before they ever get on the phone
• 2:23
  or on Zoom with you, and to understand what you do, who you do it for, and what
• 2:29
  makes you the right person to work with.
• 2:31
  And a copywriter is the person who crafts those words.
• 2:34
  We talk to the business owner.
• 2:37
  A lot of times we talk to happy past clients.
• 2:40
  We send them surveys, we do interviews, and we also go through and find out
• 2:44
  what other people in your space are doing and what makes you unique.
• 2:47
  And then we convey that and we try to make it fun in the process, we try
• 2:52
  to add some of your voice and your personality into what goes on your.
• 2:56
  Becca: And do you think that copy makes a big difference when it
• 2:59
  comes to a couple choosing which wedding professional to work with?
• 3:03
  Do you think it can be make or break depending on how good the copy is on their
• 3:06
  website, or is it just a nice added extra?
• 3:08
  Andrea: No, absolutely.
• 3:09
  I think it can be make or break.
• 3:11
  I think it helps people see how you're going to take care of them.
• 3:15
  in the wedding process.
• 3:16
  I think it helps people see that they're going to be able to relax and feel
• 3:20
  like they're in good hands depending on who you are and what role you're
• 3:24
  going to play on their wedding day.
• 3:25
  They're gonna spend a lot of time with you on an important day, and they
• 3:29
  really wanna feel like they know you.
• 3:30
  They're not gonna feel awkward, and that you're gonna make it a fun experience.
• 3:36
  You know, especially photographers, planners, that sort of thing.
• 3:39
  They want to have that sort of comfort level with.
• 3:43
  Becca: So I've mentioned in the introduction that you specialize
• 3:46
  in working with creatives and wedding professionals.
• 3:48
  That's one of the things you say.
• 3:50
  So do you think when it comes to finding a copywriter to work with
• 3:54
  as a wedding professional, that it makes a difference to work with
• 3:56
  someone who understands the industry?
• 3:58
  Like why did you decide to go into that niche?
• 4:00
  Andrea: I love working with people who are doing creative work, who are working with
• 4:04
  their hands, who are creating something.
• 4:07
  Fun and visual and tangible.
• 4:09
  And I do think it makes a big difference to work with someone who's
• 4:13
  familiar with the wedding industry, who knows what is on the minds of
• 4:17
  couples as they're looking for a professional once stressing them out.
• 4:22
  What is.
• 4:24
  What they're looking for to make them happy.
• 4:26
  What are the different concerns?
• 4:27
  You know, it's not just budget.
• 4:29
  What are the trends that they have in mind?
• 4:31
  All of that sort of stuff matters, and it goes into the copy.
• 4:34
  It's a little bit different than other forms of copy because you'll sometimes
• 4:37
  hear copywriters talk about pain points.
• 4:39
  It's a way of referring to people's problems.
• 4:41
  Couples who are looking for a wedding photographer or a florist,
• 4:45
  they don't have pain points.
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  They're happy, they're excited.
• 4:48
  They just need to find someone to fill this one particular role in their life
• 4:52
  for a short period of time, and it helps to have someone who understands.
• 4:58
  What their anxieties are, what they're going through, and also what's
• 5:02
  going to make their lives easier.
• 5:04
  Becca: Yeah, it's a really interesting point actually to think about the fact
• 5:06
  that they don't really have pain points.
• 5:09
  We're just trying to make the best day of their lives.
• 5:10
  Now, one thing that I think with copy is that it's.
• 5:13
  often not that easy to spot, really good copy, but it is
• 5:17
  easy to spot, really bad copy.
• 5:19
  And one thing I notice quite a lot when I look at people's websites
• 5:22
  and look at their copy, look at what they're doing, is that they use these
• 5:25
  cliches like, you know, the kind of taglines where everyone's tagline
• 5:29
  is making memories you won't forget.
• 5:31
  Like everyone's tagline is the same, everyone's copy is the same, and
• 5:35
  it all can kind of sound a little bit bland or a little bit cliche.
• 5:39
  So what mistakes are you seeing people making like that in the wedding industry?
• 5:43
  Andrea: I do think that that's one that there tend to be taglines that
• 5:46
  get popular and people use them without really realizing it, not just taglines.
• 5:51
  There's a lot of little expressions or people's buttons
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  will all say the same thing.
• 5:55
  You know, there's a lot of let's do this on buttons and that sort
• 5:58
  of thing and, and it can just, it can start to all sound the same.
• 6:02
  And when you think about couples, they often have 10 tabs open on their
• 6:06
  browser for say, venues in their.
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  And if all ten sound alike, they're not gonna stick in in their mind.
• 6:14
  So you need something that'll be a little bit sticky.
• 6:17
  I do think people are sometimes afraid to let their personality show.
• 6:20
  You know, you tend to think, oh, I'm a professional.
• 6:23
  I need to sound professional.
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  And there's a way to do that and to convey your expertise in your professionalism
• 6:28
  while still sounding like yourself.
• 6:31
  And another mistake I see people make is that they think there's a single,
• 6:35
  if they're on the luxury end of the spectrum, they think there's a single
• 6:38
  luxury voice and it's kind of stuffy and overly formal and they lean into that.
• 6:45
  When really luxury can be all kinds of things.
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  You can be punk, rock and luxury.
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  You can be casual and still be very luxury.
• 6:52
  I mean, so I think that's a common mistake.
• 6:55
  I see.
• 6:55
  And then one more mistake is you really wanna focus on the.
• 7:00
  When you're writing the copy and the experience that you are creating for
• 7:03
  your couples and your clients, and sometimes people tend to like write an
• 7:09
  entire autobiographical page and that information is useful, but you need to
• 7:14
  frame it in why it's beneficial for them, not just here's some information about me.
• 7:20
  Becca: Yeah, that's so true.
• 7:21
  I've seen so many homepages, which are just boring because they're all
• 7:25
  about the person whose business is, and I'm like, no one actually cares.
• 7:29
  Like whether you've got a degree in marketing from
• 7:32
  1997, like it's not a thing.
• 7:35
  So yeah, I a hundred percent agree with you.
• 7:37
  I think that's really interesting.
• 7:38
  Now, when I was researching for the podcast today, I took a look
• 7:41
  at your website, which is probably terrifying for a copywriter to have
• 7:44
  someone else looking at their copy.
• 7:47
  But your about page was one of my most favorite about pages
• 7:50
  that I've ever seen on a website.
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  I really liked it.
• 7:53
  I really enjoyed it.
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  I loved the way your personality has shone through.
• 7:56
  I felt like I really got to know a little bit about you through your
• 7:59
  likes and your dislikes and that kind of thing, like the fact you don't
• 8:02
  like coffee and the fact I know.
• 8:05
  I know, but I love that.
• 8:07
  I kind of felt like, oh, I really feel like I know you, rather than
• 8:09
  that normal resume kind of about page
• 8:12
  so.
• 8:13
  What is it about adding personality to people's pages that matters,
• 8:17
  and do you have any just small tips around how to do that?
• 8:21
  And by the way, I will link to your about page in the show notes so other people
• 8:24
  can go and see what I'm talking about.
• 8:25
  Andrea: Absolutely.
• 8:26
  Yeah.
• 8:26
  So I do think that one thing people.
• 8:29
  Can do is add more detail, think about what you wanna say, and then go a level
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  deeper, get a little bit more specific.
• 8:37
  So if you want to say, and it's, this is a cliche, I'd avoid it, but if you're
• 8:41
  talking about what your favorite thing to drink from Starbucks is or whatever
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  for the, the Americans, I don't know how big Starbucks is in the uk, but.
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  Don't just say that you get a coffee, tell people that you get the cake pop
• 8:53
  shaped like a deer and you get, you know, and be really specific layer in detail.
• 8:59
  So like I said, I'm not a coffee drinker, but maybe you say you get a
• 9:02
  London fog, chai latte or whatever, and just be a little bit more specific.
• 9:07
  Those details stick with people.
• 9:09
  They resonate with people.
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  They don't have to like the exact same.
• 9:14
  But it, it tells them a little bit about you, and it just helps them remember you.
• 9:18
  And so every time you think you've dug down deep enough and given more
• 9:21
  detail, usually for most people, they can go a level deeper on the detail.
• 9:25
  Like you said, you like Disney.
• 9:28
  But if you were writing here about page, you might talk about
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  your absolute favorite ride at Disney or something like that.
• 9:34
  So rather than just saying you like to go to Disney World, you could say you love
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  the Haunted Mansion because this, that, the other thing I might have missed.
• 9:42
  The mark on that one.
• 9:43
  I don't know.
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  Becca: I'm terrified of the haunted mansion, like I can't even go on the
• 9:47
  Haunted mansion, but you will find me having breakfast at Cinderella's Castle
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  and sipping on a glass of something fizzy.
• 9:53
  Andrea: There we go.
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  See, that's the sort of detail that people want.
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  That's the sort of detail that sticks in people's mind.
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  So that's one thing.
• 10:00
  Another thing is to think about writing.
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  Like you talk and think about the words you use, the
• 10:06
  expressions you use regularly.
• 10:09
  Whether you want to, you know, people can curse in their copy or
• 10:12
  they cannot, and that's fine too.
• 10:14
  But if you're a person who is cursing up a storm, your people might be
• 10:18
  those people who respond to that.
• 10:20
  And you don't want too much of a disconnect between how you show up
• 10:24
  online and how you show up in person.
• 10:26
  So you wanna convey a little bit of that personality as well.
• 10:29
  Becca: Yeah, I think that's so important.
• 10:30
  So often I meet wedding pros in real life and they're really fun and I, I
• 10:35
  really get on with them and then I look at their website and I'm like, you don't
• 10:38
  sound like the same person that I met.
• 10:41
  Like if your couples met you in real life, they really wanna work with you.
• 10:44
  But you sound so formal.
• 10:46
  People seem to talk all the time as if they're this massive
• 10:48
  company, even though it's them.
• 10:50
  So like, yes.
• 10:52
  Are there common things that people are missing when it comes to their copy?
• 10:55
  Are there common things that people are emitting or doing that, they shouldn't be.
• 11:00
  Andrea: Definitely the two formal.
• 11:01
  As part of it, you really wanna relax a little bit.
• 11:04
  You know, there are a few people who I'm sure formal is their
• 11:06
  brand and it really works.
• 11:08
  But I think most people could stand to be a little bit more casual with their copy
• 11:12
  and a little bit less stiff and formal, especially in the wedding industry.
• 11:17
  I see like people have kind of an elegant visual branding, and then they feel
• 11:22
  like their copy has to be very formal.
• 11:25
  To match.
• 11:25
  And that's not really true.
• 11:27
  It can be, it can be fun, it can be playful.
• 11:29
  I think the other thing people forget is you don't have much time
• 11:33
  to grab someone's attention online.
• 11:34
  You have, there's all kinds of statistics, but a couple seconds
• 11:39
  at best to get someone to read the hero section on your homepage.
• 11:42
  So the most underrated thing about your copy is clarity.
• 11:45
  It needs to be clear what you do and who you do it for.
• 11:49
  And if someone can't get that from reading, say the very top section of your
• 11:52
  home page, you might lose them right away.
• 11:54
  So that is an underrated thing.
• 11:56
  There's a lot of people in the copywriting world who will say it's important
• 12:00
  to value clarity over being clever.
• 12:02
  Being clever is really fun, but first, you wanna make sure you're crystal
• 12:05
  clear on all of the aspects of your business so that people understand
• 12:09
  what the value you provide is.
• 12:11
  Becca: And how do people make sure they don't take it too far?
• 12:13
  Because I know one of the concerns that sometimes some of my clients have is that
• 12:17
  they start injecting their personality into their copy and then they panic.
• 12:21
  Like, what happens if people don't like it?
• 12:22
  What happens if people stop wanting to work with me because
• 12:25
  I've become too informal?
• 12:27
  How do we know that we've got it right?
• 12:30
  Andrea: So one tip that I received from a mentor of mine is that you can
• 12:34
  start your first draft of your copy by turning your personality up to an 11.
• 12:38
  And then go back and dial it down in subsequent drafts.
• 12:41
  So definitely do multiple drafts.
• 12:44
  Have someone you trust in the industry.
• 12:46
  Read it through for you.
• 12:47
  And I say in the industry, someone who's maybe targeting
• 12:50
  the same sort of couples you are.
• 12:52
  You know, if you are a photographer, you might ask a friend who is a baker to
• 12:57
  read it or something like that so that they can give you an outside perspective.
• 13:01
  Don't necessarily ask friends and family because what they like might
• 13:05
  not be what actually works for your.
• 13:08
  But the other thing I always like to tell my clients is that
• 13:10
  you can't work with everyone.
• 13:11
  It's not humanly possible to work with every couple out there.
• 13:16
  And it is okay for your copy not to land with certain people as
• 13:22
  long as it is resonating with the people who you want to work with.
• 13:25
  In fact, sometimes it's really important.
• 13:27
  One of the things we use copy as a tool to do.
• 13:31
  Is to weed out people who aren't a good fit for your brand.
• 13:35
  You know, if you are an informal casual person, the person who wants a more
• 13:40
  formal wedding might not be a good fit, and we can convey that through your copy.
• 13:44
  Likewise, if you are selling packages at very high end prices, there are things
• 13:49
  we can do within the copy to indicate your pricing and the experience you
• 13:54
  deliver, and hopefully weed out some of the people who are going to ask if
• 13:57
  you can actually do a package for half the price that you normally charge.
• 14:02
  Becca: I wanna come back to something that you mentioned earlier, which.
• 14:05
  Buttons on websites.
• 14:06
  Now, this is an area that I definitely see people struggling with and sometimes
• 14:10
  I struggle with myself, where you are trying to get people to take action, do a
• 14:14
  call to action, and as you said earlier, you often are left with the cliches
• 14:18
  of, let's do this, let's get going.
• 14:21
  Have you got any tips around how to word.
• 14:24
  The copy on those buttons because it's such a small amount of space
• 14:27
  and you want people to take action.
• 14:29
  Any ideas for us?
• 14:31
  Andrea: Yeah, I definitely think if you're stuck and you're trying to do
• 14:34
  it, the first thing is clarity again.
• 14:36
  So even something as simple as book a call, set up a chat, something like that.
• 14:40
  Can work if it gets people to go through and, you know, look
• 14:44
  at your website analytics and see when people are clicking.
• 14:47
  If you get a lot of traffic, it can make a difference to see
• 14:49
  and then play around with it.
• 14:51
  Change it a little bit if people aren't clicking, but you can also,
• 14:55
  I've done really playful ones.
• 14:57
  I've done ones that were longer and that fit the style of a client, but they can
• 15:02
  get really playful as long as it's clear.
• 15:05
  That it is a button and that it fits with the rest, rest of the text.
• 15:08
  In terms of personality, you can get really playful.
• 15:11
  I know I had one for a client that was like mentioning her some of her favorite
• 15:17
  foods or something like that, and basically like, let's meet together over
• 15:20
  fajitas or something like that, you know?
• 15:21
  But it was, it was silly.
• 15:22
  It was playful.
• 15:23
  It went with the rest of the tone of voice that we had for the site.
• 15:27
  And the other thing is I'm not a designer.
• 15:29
  If you do get playful with your copy, make sure it's crystal clear that those
• 15:32
  are buttons, so make sure that the text and the button color are contrasting
• 15:37
  with the rest of the page and it really stands out so that someone knows
• 15:41
  that's where they're supposed to click.
• 15:42
  Becca: That's really helpful Now.
• 15:44
  , obviously the best option is for people to go out there and hire someone
• 15:48
  like yourself, hire a copywriter.
• 15:50
  But we know, depending on where people are in business, that
• 15:52
  that's not always possible.
• 15:54
  So if they have got some budget, but they can't afford to outsource
• 15:57
  everything, what things should they prioritize outsourcing and what things
• 16:02
  are easier for them to do themselves?
• 16:04
  Andrea: So I think if you have the budget to do a couple pages on your website,
• 16:08
  obviously your homepage is a big deal.
• 16:11
  You're gonna wanna do that.
• 16:11
  That's what get people's attention.
• 16:13
  That's what funnels them to the other pages on your site.
• 16:16
  I know that people love to outsource their about page just cuz it's a pain to write.
• 16:20
  You know, you were talking about my about page, the number of hours I
• 16:24
  put in because writing your own about page is just a different level of
• 16:27
  difficulty than writing for someone else.
• 16:30
  So that's another popular one to outsource.
• 16:32
  And then a lot of times I work with clients on.
• 16:35
  Their actual experience or package pages because sometimes people struggle
• 16:40
  to convey what goes into a package and it ends up being just a list of bullet
• 16:45
  points, which is useful and should be on there, but they're not giving
• 16:49
  people a sense of the experience.
• 16:51
  What I think you can definitely DIY when you're starting out is you can
• 16:56
  do a lot of your emails and a lot of your social media copy yourself.
• 17:01
  Especially that stuff really comes straight from the.
• 17:04
  And so it's perfectly fine to do that yourself.
• 17:06
  Blogging is another way.
• 17:07
  If you have the time, you can blog yourself, you know, learn a little
• 17:11
  bit about SEO to, to maximize the benefit, but that you can do
• 17:16
  yourself and pages with like the investment and that sort of thing.
• 17:20
  If you have an investment page.
• 17:21
  That's something you can do yourself.
• 17:23
  You know, that's a pretty simple, straightforward page, and I've seen great
• 17:27
  websites that people have done themselves.
• 17:28
  I'm not here to discourage anyone from writing their own copy.
• 17:31
  I've seen amazing websites that people have written themselves.
• 17:34
  What's most important?
• 17:36
  and where you probably need to invest most of your time in the
• 17:39
  beginning is making sure you really understand who you're talking to and
• 17:43
  who wants to purchase your services.
• 17:45
  Becca: Yes, that's incredibly important.
• 17:47
  Which brings me on to my next question, which I'm hoping you're gonna be
• 17:49
  able to add to some of that with.
• 17:52
  So if someone's sitting there thinking, right, I need to update my website copy
• 17:55
  right now, I don't have any budget, I'm gonna have a go at doing it myself.
• 17:59
  Like, have you got some tips about where they should start with that?
• 18:02
  Is there a process they should follow?
• 18:04
  , obviously they should be looking at who they're talking to, but do
• 18:06
  you have any other quick tips about how they can get going with that?
• 18:11
  Andrea: I think one of my favorite things to do is reach out to a past
• 18:14
  client, someone you really liked working with, preferably someone
• 18:18
  who's going to be a good fit for the services you're currently offering.
• 18:21
  So if you've made a big pivot, maybe not someone you worked with before that
• 18:26
  pivot and ask them if you could have 20, 30 minutes of their time to just
• 18:30
  sit down and understand what they were looking for, what their constraints
• 18:34
  were in terms of terms of budget, in terms of time, in terms of other
• 18:38
  needs, and then why they chose you.
• 18:41
  And try to get a little bit of a profile of yourself and understand the things
• 18:44
  about you that make you unique so that you can highlight those in your.
• 18:49
  . I also suggest trying to get written testimonials from past clients.
• 18:52
  This is something that, you know, as a copywriter, I spend a lot of time
• 18:56
  going through people's testimonials and reviews, editing them down a bit, and
• 19:02
  trying to get them placed correctly.
• 19:04
  You suggest where they should go on the page so that people
• 19:07
  have really vivid social proof.
• 19:08
  So that's another really easy way you can spice up your webpage is.
• 19:14
  Trim down your testimonials to make sure that they're highlighting
• 19:17
  the most important factors.
• 19:18
  Freshen them up.
• 19:19
  You know, have you gone through and added new testimonials in
• 19:22
  the past six months or a year?
• 19:24
  That's a really easy way to start.
• 19:26
  And then of course, your headline is worth a ton of money, so make sure it's
• 19:30
  crystal clear and make sure that you know someone knows where you do your work.
• 19:36
  If it's location based and.
• 19:39
  Anything that you can add to convey in just one line your experience,
• 19:43
  and I know that's a heavy lift, your experience and what you offer clients,
• 19:46
  that's gonna be really beneficial.
• 19:48
  Becca: And how do people share their experiences and what
• 19:51
  they can offer without it?
• 19:52
  Number one, sounding like they're just reeling off why they're great.
• 19:55
  And number two, without just sounding like a big, long resume.
• 19:59
  So
• 19:59
  Andrea: I think it is important to remember.
• 20:02
  That what people are hiring you for on their wedding day is a
• 20:04
  vibe and experience a feeling.
• 20:07
  Yes, they very much care about the end product that they're gonna
• 20:10
  get, but they also wanna feel like they're in good hands with you.
• 20:13
  So sometimes just listing off your experience isn't
• 20:17
  necessarily going to convey that.
• 20:19
  What you can do is maybe walk them through what a day looks like for your clients.
• 20:23
  Give them case studies, sketch out what the experience they're going to get from
• 20:29
  you is, and remember that it's a lot about feelings, it's a lot about emotions.
• 20:33
  And while they don't necessarily have pain points of any kind, they do
• 20:38
  wanna feel like they're in good hands.
• 20:40
  They wanna feel like.
• 20:42
  You know, most important day of their lives with a lot of people watching,
• 20:46
  you're gonna show up and take care of them, and they can trust you.
• 20:49
  Trust is hugely important.
• 20:51
  And so that's one thing your experience comes in, in showing
• 20:57
  that other people have trusted you.
• 20:58
  So again, that social proof, those testimonials, and that you can handle
• 21:02
  what a wedding day is gonna throw at you.
• 21:04
  But again, you don't wanna list off, you know?
• 21:07
  A bunch of bullet point stats right away because they're
• 21:11
  probably not that concerned about.
• 21:13
  Becca: Yeah, that's really helpful.
• 21:14
  And trust is huge.
• 21:15
  If they can't trust you, they definitely won't book you.
• 21:18
  Now, we've talked a lot about website copy, but copy is obviously
• 21:21
  everywhere in all that we do.
• 21:23
  Emails, social media we've talked about briefly.
• 21:26
  So how should people go about approaching the copy when it
• 21:29
  comes to things like their
• 21:31
  instagram captions or their Facebook posts, should they keep the same
• 21:35
  tone of voice as their website?
• 21:36
  Should they think as much about their copy on those things as
• 21:39
  they do about their website?
• 21:41
  Have you got any tips around how to translate this kind of bigger copy on
• 21:45
  the website into those daily posts?
• 21:47
  Andrea: Yeah.
• 21:47
  I do feel like while it's nice to write your posts on Instagram and
• 21:52
  Facebook in the same brand voice it is okay to be more casual on those.
• 21:56
  They're social media.
• 21:57
  They're social.
• 21:57
  If you look at a lot of people, Websites, they're going to be written
• 22:01
  at a slightly more difficult reading level than those social media captions.
• 22:06
  Social media, you're trying to stop people's thumbs.
• 22:08
  You're trying to get them to stop scrolling, and so you
• 22:11
  need to have a good hook.
• 22:12
  The first line really matters, but also I.
• 22:16
  This is speaking a little bit from my personal perspective as someone
• 22:19
  who's not great about who sometimes lets the perfect be the enemy of the
• 22:24
  yeah, the perfect be the enemy of the good on social.
• 22:27
  Don't let obsessing over the details get in the way cuz so
• 22:31
  much of what you do on social is about consistency and showing up.
• 22:34
  And it is okay to be slightly imperfect.
• 22:37
  Nobody expects every post on your social media to be as well written as the website
• 22:42
  that you paid someone to professionally write for you if you're showing up
• 22:45
  and sharing valuable information.
• 22:48
  That's going to be okay.
• 22:49
  At the end of the day,
• 22:50
  Becca: perfectionism is such a problem for so many of the wedding
• 22:54
  pros I work with, so it's It's great to hear that that's a bit of a
• 22:57
  struggle for you as well sometimes.
• 22:59
  Can you just speak a little bit into that of how you've
• 23:02
  overcome that with your own work?
• 23:04
  Because I know that this is a problem that they face when they're looking
• 23:06
  at things like their own websites or their own marketing collateral, or even
• 23:10
  when they're doing work for clients, feeling like it's never quite perfect.
• 23:14
  So if you've got any tips around how.
• 23:17
  Overcome that or how you make sure that that doesn't hold you.
• 23:20
  Andrea: Yes.
• 23:21
  I think one of my favorite tips is to let your work sit.
• 23:24
  So don't tell yourself you're gonna write your website in
• 23:26
  one day and be done with it.
• 23:28
  Write what you can and then walk away for a day, maybe two days, maybe a week,
• 23:33
  and then come back with fresh eyes.
• 23:35
  And a lot of times you'll see that you actually really like what you wrote,
• 23:38
  and you can be a little bit more clear-eyed about what needs changing.
• 23:42
  But if you really get in the weeds and you are, you've been focusing
• 23:46
  on the same page of copy for a.
• 23:48
  Time to take a break.
• 23:49
  It's time to step away.
• 23:51
  Give yourself the luxury of a little bit of time.
• 23:54
  Like I said, having someone else look at it too, they'll point out
• 23:57
  things that are done really well, and they can also point out some
• 24:00
  opportunities where you can clarify things that are crystal clear to you,
• 24:03
  but they're not so obvious to a reader.
• 24:07
  But then also remember that for a lot of wedding professionals, at the
• 24:12
  end of the day, while well-written copy, is important, they are hiring
• 24:16
  you in part on the basis of your portfolio and your personality.
• 24:19
  I always like to think of it as your portfolio, your
• 24:22
  personality, and your process.
• 24:24
  So if you can get people on a call with you, if you've got a good portfolio,
• 24:28
  you can usually close the sale.
• 24:30
  My job is to come in, highlight that personality a little bit more in the
• 24:33
  written text and also make sure that your process is really clear that
• 24:37
  it's shown and people have fewer questions before they get on that sales.
• 24:42
  Becca: Really, really helpful.
• 24:43
  There are so many great tips in here.
• 24:45
  Now, if we were to go to copywriting school 1 0 1, would you say there are
• 24:49
  any rules that we should be following?
• 24:50
  So when we're back at school learning English teachers say to us things like
• 24:54
  you mustn't start sentences with the word, and when it comes to copy, are
• 24:58
  there basic rules that we should be following, or is it a free for all?
• 25:01
  Andrea: You can definitely break some of those rules, start sentences
• 25:05
  with, and be playful with your copy.
• 25:07
  That's fine.
• 25:08
  But the key rule that most people will recommend you follow
• 25:13
  is to think about one reader.
• 25:14
  So when you are writing a page, try to get a clear picture of who you're writing
• 25:19
  for and write for one person in this.
• 25:23
  It's probably two people.
• 25:24
  It's a couple, but you want to write with a single couple in mind.
• 25:28
  You don't wanna be jumping all over the place and thinking of seven different
• 25:32
  types of clients you might have.
• 25:34
  You want a clear picture?
• 25:35
  Write the page for one client.
• 25:37
  For example, with photographer websites that I've worked on,
• 25:41
  obviously photographers often have.
• 25:43
  Different types of clients within a business.
• 25:45
  They might do weddings, but then they also might do some portraits
• 25:49
  or some brand photography.
• 25:50
  So what we'll do is write the vast majority of the website,
• 25:54
  focusing on the specific client that they want to attract, say.
• 25:58
  Bridal couples, and then we'll write one single page focused on maybe
• 26:04
  their senior portrait business for, for American high school portraits.
• 26:08
  And we'll address that specific customer on that specific page.
• 26:12
  But we wanna try and address one person at a time.
• 26:15
  Anytime you start to try to address multiple groups of people.
• 26:19
  You can confuse your messaging and start to lack that clarity that's so important.
• 26:24
  So one reader, that's the rule.
• 26:25
  Becca: So know who your one reader is, get 'em in the front of your mind and
• 26:29
  make sure you're talking just to them.
• 26:31
  Yes, we have covered so much ground, Andrea, it's been an
• 26:34
  absolute pleasure to talk to you.
• 26:35
  Now, before we wrap things up, I always end my interviews with the
• 26:38
  same question, which I'm gonna post you now, which is this.
• 26:42
  What's one thing you personally wish you'd known sooner in your own?
• 26:46
  Andrea: that marketing is a marathon and not a sprint.
• 26:49
  It is so tempting to think that you're gonna make one Instagram post and get a
• 26:53
  bunch of new clients that you're going to launch a website and 10 clients
• 26:58
  will come rolling in right away.
• 27:00
  And the truth is, all of that stuff is out there.
• 27:02
  It's doing work for you.
• 27:04
  You have to keep producing consistently, keep working on it, but it's not
• 27:08
  no one thing unless you're super.
• 27:11
  Is going to produce a ton of clients right away.
• 27:13
  You have to create a system and trust it and then stick to it and be consistent.
• 27:18
  Becca: So true and so refreshing to hear you say that as well.
• 27:22
  Andrea, it's been such a pleasure to chat to you.
• 27:24
  If people wanna find out more about your services, more about what you do, where's
• 27:28
  the best place for them to find you?
• 27:29
  Andrea: They can find me on my website.
• 27:31
  It's my name andrea shaw.com.
• 27:33
  Not especially creative, but it gets the job done.
• 27:36
  And then you can also find me on Instagram.
• 27:38
  My username is Andrea Shaw copy.
• 27:40
  And there I'll share some copywriting tips and just other information
• 27:45
  as well as my fair share of memes.
• 27:48
  Because I can't help myself.
• 27:50
  Becca: Fabulous.
• 27:50
  I will make sure I link to all of those places in the show notes, and of course
• 27:53
  you're about page so people can go and check out what on earth I was going
• 27:57
  on about and why I loved it so much.
• 27:59
  Andrea, it's been so good to chat to you.
• 28:01
  I hope you make it to Disneyland, Paris.
• 28:02
  If you want any tips, let me know.
• 28:04
  Andrea: Absolutely.
• 28:05
  Thank you so much.
• 28:06
  It's been a pleasure.
• 28:07
  Take care.
• 28:07
  Bye.
• 28:09
  Becca: I loved chatting with Andrea, wasn't she great?
• 28:12
  Loved all of her tips, and to be honest, anyone who's happy to talk
• 28:15
  to me about my Disney obsession is always gonna be a new friend.
• 28:18
  Hopefully you got loads of great tips on how to improve your website copy,
• 28:21
  and if you do make any changes and want other people to have a look at them, why
• 28:24
  not go ahead and share them in my free Facebook community Wedding Pros who are
• 28:28
  ready to grow, and drop me a message on Instagram and let me know how you got on.
• 28:31
  If you've got a wedding industry friend who you think would find
• 28:34
  this episode helpful, then why not share the podcast with them?
• 28:37
  We're here to help.
• 28:38
  I'll see you next week.