Latest / Foul Territory / Inside the Skaggs v. Angels wrongful death civil trial + Angels offseason to-do list, Trout to DH more?

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Inside the Skaggs v. Angels wrongful death civil trial + Angels offseason to-do list, Trout to DH more? · Foul Territory

0:03
Speaker 1: Hey, and we're back with Sam Blum joining us right now.
0:07
Speaker 1: We're going to first get into where he's been for
0:10
Speaker 1: the majority of his life. Over the last few months,
0:13
Speaker 1: Sam writes for The Athletic, of course, covering the Angels
0:16
Speaker 1: and many other topics, including this court case that involves
0:19
Speaker 1: the Angels in the wrong full death lawsuit that has
0:23
Speaker 1: been brought by the Tyler Skaggs family and parties. So Sam,
0:27
Speaker 1: let's first get an update on where we're at, as
0:29
Speaker 1: it appears that we are getting close to a verdict.
0:33
Speaker 1: Is that correct.
0:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, they started deliberating about twenty five hours ago. They
0:37
Speaker 2: had a night off. I should make that clear. But yeah,
0:40
Speaker 2: I mean, this is this is the very end. I mean,
0:42
Speaker 2: this is three months. This trial started September twenty second.
0:47
Speaker 2: I think the jury started actually hearing the case on
0:49
Speaker 2: October fourteenth, So it's been you know, over two months
0:53
Speaker 2: of listening to testimony, and so I don't know when
0:55
Speaker 2: they're going to have a verdict. It could be while
0:57
Speaker 2: we're sitting here talking. It could be you know, tomorrow,
1:01
Speaker 2: next week. But yeah, I mean it's it's it's just
1:05
Speaker 2: been a really intense heavy story, intense heavy case, and
1:10
Speaker 2: I don't know what's where it's gonna land, but I
1:12
Speaker 2: tend to think the longer this goes, you know, they
1:14
Speaker 2: have to there's a lot of questions on that. There's
1:16
Speaker 2: twenty six questions for the jury answer, and they have
1:18
Speaker 2: to go through a lot of different elements. Like if
1:20
Speaker 2: they do find that the Angels are somewhat responsible, they're
1:22
Speaker 2: gonna have to go through and find the portionment like
1:25
Speaker 2: the percentage of responsibility that Tyler had, that the Angels
1:27
Speaker 2: have that Eric Kay had. They have to determine, you know,
1:30
Speaker 2: is Eric k working in the course and scope of
1:31
Speaker 2: his job when he did all this. So you know,
1:34
Speaker 2: if they want to find for punitive damages, that changes everything.
1:37
Speaker 2: That could add a lot of money to whatever the
1:39
Speaker 2: payoff potentially could be. So uh and even if they
1:41
Speaker 2: do find for punitive damages, then they have to do
1:43
Speaker 2: a whole separate hearing to determine the actual value of
1:45
Speaker 2: the Los Angeles Angels. So there's still a lot to
1:47
Speaker 2: be done, but it's it's getting to the end and
1:49
Speaker 2: there's a lot of questions for that for that jury
1:50
Speaker 2: to work through.
1:51
Speaker 1: Right now, Sam, I know this is a loaded question.
1:54
Speaker 1: I've been following your articles in the athletic and we'll
1:56
Speaker 1: only get to one percent sliver of what you've read about,
2:00
Speaker 1: but can you point out some notables to get people
2:03
Speaker 1: caught up on what's happening there. I think the way
2:07
Speaker 1: to do it is to help fans relate to some
2:09
Speaker 1: names that they really know, Mike Trout, Matt Harvey, even
2:13
Speaker 1: Dan Duquette I know recently sitting up there and answering questions,
2:18
Speaker 1: and everyone had some uniqueness to it in terms of
2:21
Speaker 1: having to get really open about, you know, whether it's
2:24
Speaker 1: how Tyler was a teammate or getting into you know,
2:28
Speaker 1: painkiller medicine, stuff like that. And then for Dan most recently,
2:32
Speaker 1: he was actually from what I understand in your article,
2:35
Speaker 1: paid to speak and essentially talk down his value so
2:40
Speaker 1: that if the Skags family is entitled to money, wouldn't
2:44
Speaker 1: be as much money.
2:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's I'll get into that first because I
2:48
Speaker 2: think it's interesting they had, you know, an ex major
2:51
Speaker 2: League baseball general manager as a paid expert witness. The
2:53
Speaker 2: Skag side had Jeff Fanell, who was a longtime union lawyer,
2:58
Speaker 2: come in and argue on their behalf earlier in the trial.
3:01
Speaker 2: This has been kind of the trial within the trial,
3:03
Speaker 2: because I think it is the most tangible thing that
3:05
Speaker 2: either side could argue, is what would Tyler Skaggs have earned.
3:08
Speaker 2: It's it's you know, it's it's a really dark arbitration case. Essentially,
3:11
Speaker 2: what would he have earned had he been had he
3:13
Speaker 2: finished his career at he had this not all happened, essentially,
3:16
Speaker 2: because that's you know, that's damages that the Skags side
3:19
Speaker 2: is trying to recoup, essentially. And so, you know, I
3:22
Speaker 2: was a little surprised by by Dan Neukt's testimony. I
3:25
Speaker 2: felt like a lot of the the stats he utilized
3:27
Speaker 2: were way out of context to my opinion. You know,
3:31
Speaker 2: they had all slide up there saying Tyler Skaggs was
3:33
Speaker 2: declining in his career, and if you look at his
3:35
Speaker 2: numbers from twenty eighteen and the first half of twenty
3:37
Speaker 2: nineteen before he died, I mean, he was having the
3:39
Speaker 2: two best seasons and healthiest seasons of his career. You know,
3:42
Speaker 2: they use numbers like curveball spin rate, stuff like that
3:45
Speaker 2: to show that they were declining, But in no way
3:48
Speaker 2: was Tyler Skaggs declining as an actual pitcher at that
3:50
Speaker 2: point in his career. You know, I think the Angels
3:52
Speaker 2: can make a case, well, if he had been found out,
3:54
Speaker 2: you know, that impacts his value and things like that,
3:56
Speaker 2: as you know, been found out as someone that was
3:58
Speaker 2: you know, involved in this in this drug kind of
4:00
Speaker 2: situation and using drugs and of helping to facilitate to
4:03
Speaker 2: other players, certainly that would have impacted his value.
4:06
Speaker 3: But in terms of actual pitching, he was.
4:08
Speaker 2: He was the best pitcher on a really bad pitching
4:10
Speaker 2: team and ultimately was kind of getting better as he went.
4:15
Speaker 2: So that that was an interesting thing to me, like
4:17
Speaker 2: why the Angels are trying to you know, really diminish
4:20
Speaker 2: his value as a pitcher and why a GM would
4:22
Speaker 2: go up there and you know make that case for them.
4:25
Speaker 2: But you know, it's what it is in terms of
4:28
Speaker 2: the actual like arguments, Mike Trout, I mean, you know,
4:30
Speaker 2: this this case ultimately comes down to the where the
4:33
Speaker 2: Angels negligent in their supervising of Eric k who's now
4:36
Speaker 2: in prison, who the person who provided the lethal fentanyl
4:40
Speaker 2: pill to Tyler Skaggs that killed him in twenty nineteen.
4:42
Speaker 3: And so that's that's the crux of this case.
4:44
Speaker 2: You know, Mike Trout came in as a witness for
4:46
Speaker 2: the Skag side and you know, I think ultimately more
4:49
Speaker 2: as a neutral third person essentially, but you know, he
4:52
Speaker 2: talked about knowing about Erica's drug addiction right, knowing that
4:57
Speaker 2: you know, he was dealing with this, and offering to
4:58
Speaker 2: actually one point pay for his rehabilitation if they needed it,
5:01
Speaker 2: if he needed it.
5:03
Speaker 3: So you know, that's why some of these witnesses have
5:05
Speaker 3: been coming in.
5:05
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you saw, like Trevor pluf tweet
5:08
Speaker 2: about this the other day, and you know, he's he
5:11
Speaker 2: was a witness on behalf of the Skag sid They
5:13
Speaker 2: didn't end up calling him, but that's there's been a
5:14
Speaker 2: lot of players that have come in. Mike Moriane, a
5:16
Speaker 2: former picture Matt Harvey testified, testified for you know, as
5:20
Speaker 2: part of the Angel's case about you know, being a
5:24
Speaker 2: source of drugs for Skags in the last month of
5:27
Speaker 2: his life and even you know, having pills with him
5:29
Speaker 2: that came from from Matt Harvey than the day that
5:31
Speaker 2: he died.
5:31
Speaker 3: So but they were not ultimately the lethal pills that
5:35
Speaker 3: the leath of pill that killed him.
5:36
Speaker 2: So you know, that's that's kind of been the crux
5:39
Speaker 2: of this case. There's so many things. It's so nuanced.
5:41
Speaker 2: There's so much context that goes with every single thing
5:43
Speaker 2: we talked about, so it's hard to get into all
5:45
Speaker 2: of it. But you know, I think that that's what
5:47
Speaker 2: ultimately the jury is deciding is were the Angels negligent
5:50
Speaker 2: and they're supervising of arricage? Did they follow their own policies?
5:53
Speaker 2: Did they you know, did they act reasonably in dealing
5:56
Speaker 2: with him? And and you know, was Tyler Skaggs, you know,
5:58
Speaker 2: from the Angel side of it, how complicit is Tyler
6:00
Speaker 2: Skagg's in his own death right, how you know, taking
6:03
Speaker 2: that pill? You know, what role does that have and
6:06
Speaker 2: kind of how the jury looks at this, you know,
6:08
Speaker 2: his own choice that he made to do that. So
6:11
Speaker 2: I think it's a really interesting, complicated set of questions
6:14
Speaker 2: that they face.
6:15
Speaker 3: And you know, there's no really easy answer to that.
6:18
Speaker 2: But you know, if they've for nine weeks of testimony
6:20
Speaker 2: so that they'll have enough information to work with, you.
6:23
Speaker 4: Have been there for thirty days, you have seen this.
6:27
Speaker 4: You've been day in and day out in the court.
6:29
Speaker 4: The big names we hear, obviously, Tyler Skaggs died, Mike
6:32
Speaker 4: Trout's on the stand, Harvey used drugs, Eric Kays in prison,
6:37
Speaker 4: the Angels are Is there any one group that's really
6:40
Speaker 4: kind of sliding by a person or maybe like a
6:43
Speaker 4: group of people, like say Major League Baseball who's accepting
6:47
Speaker 4: zero responsibility for this and kind of not really being
6:51
Speaker 4: the ones that are at the forefront because of all
6:54
Speaker 4: those big names and exactly what happened and Eric Kays
6:57
Speaker 4: in prison. Is there a group of people or a
7:01
Speaker 4: certain person that's like kind of sliding by and not
7:05
Speaker 4: getting not getting I don't even know what the right
7:08
Speaker 4: word is.
7:09
Speaker 2: But trouble, you know, I don't I don't look at
7:14
Speaker 2: this as MLB's fault here and and these and I
7:17
Speaker 2: say that is I mean, I know that the Skags,
7:19
Speaker 2: I would have probably included them, and they had other
7:22
Speaker 2: They had Tim Mead and Eric k listed as defendants
7:24
Speaker 2: initially in this lawsuit, and they and Tim Mead was,
7:27
Speaker 2: you know, a long time PR guy for the Angels,
7:29
Speaker 2: led the PR department and is kind of at the
7:31
Speaker 2: crux of, you know, someone that allegedly knew about the
7:34
Speaker 2: dynamic between Skags and and k. But I don't look
7:38
Speaker 2: at MLB as being complicit here because MLB's policies and
7:42
Speaker 2: that's really what One of the main arguments here is
7:44
Speaker 2: and they've come up a lot in this trial because
7:47
Speaker 2: at one point an Angels witness, their VP for HR,
7:50
Speaker 2: said that the Angels notified MLB about Erk's drug addiction
7:53
Speaker 2: and there's no evidence and I should they notified and
7:55
Speaker 2: said they worked with them, and there's no evidence of
7:58
Speaker 2: that it did. You know, MLB has come out and
8:00
Speaker 2: said that didn't happen. H So you know, they actually
8:03
Speaker 2: went out, they actually went on the record and you know,
8:05
Speaker 2: kind of refuted what was testified to by by that
8:08
Speaker 2: Angel's VP. So I don't look at MLB as super
8:11
Speaker 2: complicit in this. They have pretty set policies on what
8:14
Speaker 2: should have happened here. They have a drug Oversight committee
8:17
Speaker 2: that wasn't that that theory should have been involved in this.
8:22
Speaker 2: You know. I think the Angels, we are arguing that
8:24
Speaker 2: they that they followed at the very least, they followed
8:27
Speaker 2: the policy of you know, utilizing you know, a team
8:31
Speaker 2: doctor essentially to help treat Eric, and that would have
8:34
Speaker 2: been what MLB would have done. But I just I
8:37
Speaker 2: don't MLB wasn't a part of this, and I think
8:39
Speaker 2: if they had their way, they would have been you know,
8:41
Speaker 2: but you have to be notified.
8:42
Speaker 3: I mean they don't.
8:43
Speaker 2: They don't know what's going on on the ground every
8:44
Speaker 2: day in Anaheim. And I think that's that's the role
8:47
Speaker 2: of the team, and that's ultimately what is being argued here.
8:51
Speaker 2: You know, why why weren't their policies followed. Why wasn't
8:53
Speaker 2: MLB's policies followed. Why weren't people notified of this when
8:56
Speaker 2: when there were multiple episodes alleged about er K utilizing
9:00
Speaker 2: you know, drugs at work and things like that.
9:02
Speaker 1: How surprising was that part of the case. To me,
9:05
Speaker 1: that was incredibly surprising based on how the league is
9:09
Speaker 1: usually so lockstep with the teams and the owners. But
9:12
Speaker 1: almost sounds like an accusations made the league's like whoa, whoa,
9:16
Speaker 1: whoa hold up that is not true, and they push
9:18
Speaker 1: it back. It usually sounds like something that would be
9:21
Speaker 1: taken care of behind the scenes before it actually gets
9:24
Speaker 1: to court, and makes it look like the group overseeing
9:28
Speaker 1: another group and really in cahoots with a group is
9:31
Speaker 1: battling within this case.
9:33
Speaker 2: I think that that testimony surprised people, right. I think
9:37
Speaker 2: that's where this you know, MLB is. I think it,
9:39
Speaker 2: from my understanding, is kind of allowed the Angels to
9:42
Speaker 2: to do what they need to do here, right like
9:44
Speaker 2: it's it's there to I mean, it's there all ultimately
9:46
Speaker 2: already Moreno's business. He can decide if he wants to,
9:48
Speaker 2: you know, how he wants to approach you know, this case.
9:51
Speaker 2: Do you want to settle it? Do you want to
9:53
Speaker 2: where you want to go to trial?
9:54
Speaker 3: Like that?
9:55
Speaker 2: That's I think the League has kind of allowed them
9:57
Speaker 2: to be autonomous in that front at the very least.
9:59
Speaker 2: But you know, once that accusation comes up that they're
10:02
Speaker 2: were working together and that Erk was you know, tested
10:04
Speaker 2: under MLV policy and things like that, I think that's
10:06
Speaker 2: where MLB was kind of like, we we can't allow
10:09
Speaker 2: that to be at that narrative. I mean, I'm gonna
10:11
Speaker 2: don't want to speak for the league, so I probably
10:12
Speaker 2: shouldn't even say that. I just I think they put
10:14
Speaker 2: that statement out there because you're you're you know, there
10:17
Speaker 2: was a narrative and this is a legal case, and
10:19
Speaker 2: I don't think that UHMLBI wants to be part of
10:22
Speaker 2: that legal case. And you know, when you say that
10:24
Speaker 2: MLB was involved in his treatment and in any capacity,
10:28
Speaker 2: that that brings him into it.
10:29
Speaker 3: So I agree with you. It surprised me, and that
10:31
Speaker 3: was why I reached out.
10:32
Speaker 2: To the league, you know, right after that testimony happened,
10:34
Speaker 2: and asked them if they had any comments on it.
10:37
Speaker 2: And you know, like you said, you don't usually see
10:39
Speaker 2: that kind of dispute happening between teams, especially in an
10:41
Speaker 2: ongoing legal matter, So it surprised me certainly. And that
10:45
Speaker 2: statement ended up kind of being read in court. Another
10:48
Speaker 2: ex team president, Frank Kunley, former Pirates president, longtime MLB
10:54
Speaker 2: in you know, general Council, testified on behalf of the
10:56
Speaker 2: Angels and he ended up getting handed that statement by
10:58
Speaker 2: one of this GAG's lawyers and was read and because
11:00
Speaker 2: he was kind of implying some similar things about, you know,
11:04
Speaker 2: basically the league, basically the Angels working under league policy
11:08
Speaker 2: essentially to treat Eric K. I don't remember exactly what
11:11
Speaker 2: I want to speak out of line of what exactly said,
11:13
Speaker 2: but it was, you know, basically saying that the team's EAP,
11:16
Speaker 2: their employee assistance professional, was treating Eric K and that
11:20
Speaker 2: that would have been kind of adequate under the policy. So,
11:22
Speaker 2: you know, I think that MLB is a little frustrated,
11:25
Speaker 2: at least at that particular you know comment by Debora Johnson,
11:29
Speaker 2: the team, the Angel's VP. But I know we're going
11:32
Speaker 2: through a lot of different names here, so it's probably
11:33
Speaker 2: confusing some of the audience. But it's a complicated case,
11:36
Speaker 2: and I apologize if I'm going astray here.
11:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, But the point also is that if someone's checking
11:42
Speaker 1: this out for ten minutes, there's a world of information.
11:46
Speaker 1: You can know almost everything there is to know from
11:48
Speaker 1: a public standpoint if they read your work. So this
11:50
Speaker 1: is just a slivery. Like I said, you're doing great
11:52
Speaker 1: on it, and I want to spin it forward, kind
11:54
Speaker 1: of last topic on this. Then we'll get to the Angels.
11:57
Speaker 1: But we're going to get a verdict. So what could
12:02
Speaker 1: we be looking at right? Could we look at nothing
12:05
Speaker 1: and the Angels are you know, whatever, the terminology is innocent,
12:09
Speaker 1: They don't have to pay anything to the Skag's family.
12:12
Speaker 1: Could we see hundreds of millions of dollars go to
12:15
Speaker 1: the Skags family? Could we see that? Then get to
12:18
Speaker 1: the next level of whatever they call it. You know,
12:22
Speaker 1: I'm forgetting a lot of the legal terminology right now,
12:24
Speaker 1: or they challenge it and then it goes back to
12:26
Speaker 1: court again. So I know that's kind of a two parter.
12:28
Speaker 1: And then the last part here that you can all
12:30
Speaker 1: answer together, because I think it's all related, is if
12:33
Speaker 1: the Skag side does win something here, does it get
12:38
Speaker 1: looked at as something that could be you know, precedent
12:41
Speaker 1: going forward for this specifics thing. But when something happens
12:46
Speaker 1: within an organization and a player feels like he missed
12:49
Speaker 1: out on career earnings for it or his family that
12:53
Speaker 1: he left.
12:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, So to answer like the first question right like
12:56
Speaker 2: this this could be appealed, I imagine it would be
12:58
Speaker 2: assuming there's you know, any sort of judgment against the
13:02
Speaker 2: Angels and maybe even the Skags, I could appeal if
13:04
Speaker 2: there's a judgment, not judgment against them. But if they
13:08
Speaker 2: don't win, you know, I I don't know exactly what
13:12
Speaker 2: will happen and how we'll all play out. But yeah,
13:16
Speaker 2: I mean to answer your last question, like the precedent
13:18
Speaker 2: side of this, I mean there's now I don't as
13:20
Speaker 2: far as I'm aware, there's never been a professional sports
13:23
Speaker 2: team that's been found responsible for the death of a player, right,
13:27
Speaker 2: this is a wrongful death case. That's ultimately the question here,
13:29
Speaker 2: Like the responsibility, Now, there are different machinations of what
13:33
Speaker 2: that responsibility could look like they could say the Angels
13:36
Speaker 2: are ten percent responsible, and you know, then that dollar
13:39
Speaker 2: value is ten percent of it, and you could say
13:41
Speaker 2: Tyler Scaggs is ninety. I don't know what they'll come
13:44
Speaker 2: up with. I know that the skag side asked the
13:46
Speaker 2: jury essentially to find the Angels like eighty seventy to
13:49
Speaker 2: ninety percent responsible for this, and you know the rest
13:53
Speaker 2: either goes to er K or to Tyler Skaggs. So
13:56
Speaker 2: but that's how this works. I mean, they're gonna find
13:58
Speaker 2: a apportionment of responsibility. They're going to find a dollar value,
14:02
Speaker 2: and then that will basically be you know, or it
14:05
Speaker 2: could be zero. The Angels could just come out with,
14:07
Speaker 2: you know, winning this case outright for all we know.
14:09
Speaker 2: So I don't know what will happen. There's so many
14:12
Speaker 2: questions that will have to be answered, and it might
14:14
Speaker 2: go on for a little while. And I certainly expect
14:16
Speaker 2: an appeal regardless of kind of the results. I believe
14:20
Speaker 2: there were even some there might have been even a
14:21
Speaker 2: request for a mistrial that was not granted. So you know,
14:24
Speaker 2: there's there's still a lot to happen here, and I
14:30
Speaker 2: they re have to redo this trial. That would be
14:32
Speaker 2: another three months of my life. But we'll see not.
14:38
Speaker 1: Oh boy, oh boy, yep, may not in your control.
14:40
Speaker 1: And you're doing a great job covering it. What'd you say, No.
14:43
Speaker 3: I said, I don't think that'll happen, but we'll see.
14:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I hope something like this just from
14:48
Speaker 1: the outside perspective gets resolved soon, because no matter how
14:52
Speaker 1: you slice it, it is ugly. It's it's awkward, it's uncomfortable.
14:55
Speaker 1: You're talking about someone who passed away tragedy and then
14:59
Speaker 1: bringing up the value of that person as a player
15:01
Speaker 1: and what he did off the field, like a lot
15:03
Speaker 1: of personal and private information on both sides. You know,
15:06
Speaker 1: it's not like the angels are having fun with this,
15:08
Speaker 1: but they're challenging it. So anyway, you're doing a great job.
15:10
Speaker 1: It's it's been cool to read everything just from an
15:13
Speaker 1: insider perspective, to see what's going on inside the courthouse, since,
15:16
Speaker 1: of course I appreciate both of us cannot be there,
15:19
Speaker 1: So thanks for that. And then I'm going to make
15:20
Speaker 1: life a little bit easier on you now because the
15:22
Speaker 1: second portion of our conversation is baseball moves off season
15:34
Speaker 1: to do list. Let's hit the Angels. They've done some
15:36
Speaker 1: things already. But Sam, what do you think's on the
15:38
Speaker 1: docket for them?
15:41
Speaker 3: Well, okay, I think I put together a little list.
15:43
Speaker 2: The top thing that I find interesting is how they're
15:45
Speaker 2: going to navigate Mike Trout and Hori Hilaire, because this,
15:48
Speaker 2: to me is, you know, it's not the most important question,
15:51
Speaker 2: but it's really interesting because both these guys. I mean, Trout,
15:54
Speaker 2: I know, is going into the season wanting to play
15:55
Speaker 2: at the outfield, but he also wanted the last season
15:57
Speaker 2: wanted to play outfield, and then by the end of
15:59
Speaker 2: April he didn't play another game defensively the whole season.
16:01
Speaker 2: And you're kind of also looking at a lot of injuries.
16:03
Speaker 2: You're looking at him being a year older. You know,
16:06
Speaker 2: you've already had issues keeping him on the field, so
16:08
Speaker 2: I think at the very least you're gonna expect a
16:10
Speaker 2: lot of dh I mean, that's just that's just.
16:11
Speaker 3: My read on this.
16:12
Speaker 2: And then you have Hori Solaire, who really you know,
16:14
Speaker 2: he got injured all that last year and he directly
16:16
Speaker 2: said it's because I'm playing the outfield a lot, like
16:18
Speaker 2: he doesn't really want to play the outfield. I don't
16:19
Speaker 2: think you know when he's out there, it's not He's
16:21
Speaker 2: just not a natural I mean maybe at earlier points
16:23
Speaker 2: in his career was a better defensive player, but just
16:26
Speaker 2: not a good defensive player at this point. So and
16:29
Speaker 2: it's hurting him physically. So I don't know how you
16:31
Speaker 2: handle that. I don't know if there's like a trade
16:33
Speaker 2: partner for Solaire or if there's, you know, some way
16:37
Speaker 2: to work through this. I mean in theory, you know,
16:38
Speaker 2: they traded Taylor Ward, so there's there's space in the outfield.
16:41
Speaker 2: I just don't know exactly how they're gonna feel that
16:43
Speaker 2: if they're going to want to go and add more
16:45
Speaker 2: players and you know what you do with Joe Adele,
16:47
Speaker 2: because then you're also working with the reality that Joe Adele,
16:50
Speaker 2: if you look at his numbers, was a really bad
16:51
Speaker 2: defensive center fielder, but a really good defensive right fielder.
16:55
Speaker 2: So is Trout going to go back to center? That
16:57
Speaker 2: was brought up and as a possibility at the winter meetings.
16:59
Speaker 2: So I just think that they kind of have to
17:01
Speaker 2: work through this problem. You know, is it a problem
17:05
Speaker 2: to have too good hitters? Know, but it is something
17:07
Speaker 2: you got to, you know, navigate when you're talking about players,
17:10
Speaker 2: then maybe just aren't capable of playing every day defensively.
17:15
Speaker 4: All right, well then let's go with let's go with
17:18
Speaker 4: your first Your first note there Solaire and Trout. Obviously
17:22
Speaker 4: you want to keep Mike Trout healthy, he's got more
17:25
Speaker 4: years left on his contract. Is Jorge Solaire's market completely
17:30
Speaker 4: diminished in the sense that it's really only a one year,
17:34
Speaker 4: fourteen million dollar deal. I'm not sure how much of
17:36
Speaker 4: it's backloaded, if there's more than that, but essentially that's
17:38
Speaker 4: what it comes out to, is his power if you're
17:44
Speaker 4: if a team is able to be found to have
17:46
Speaker 4: it at DH worth the fourteen million, because if not,
17:51
Speaker 4: why the heck did they trade for him last year?
17:53
Speaker 4: They put themselves in this situation knowing what's happened to
17:56
Speaker 4: Mike Trout the last few years.
17:59
Speaker 2: I think you had me on like the day after
18:01
Speaker 2: they traded for there, we had this exact conversation and
18:04
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I could see this definitely becoming
18:06
Speaker 2: a problem, and then that it definitely has been. And
18:09
Speaker 2: so I mean, listen, I think if you're trading Solaire,
18:12
Speaker 2: it's probably for another bad contract, right, because at this point,
18:15
Speaker 2: I don't think Solaia has looked at as like highly valuable.
18:18
Speaker 3: I mean, he had a bad year last year.
18:19
Speaker 2: He was hurt last year, so you know, I know
18:22
Speaker 2: Perry's talked about well, he tends to do well on
18:24
Speaker 2: contract years, but he's also I think, like thirty five now,
18:27
Speaker 2: so he's never been thirty five in those contract years before.
18:29
Speaker 3: So if you're in.
18:31
Speaker 2: A trade him, I think it would you know, you
18:33
Speaker 2: maybe could trade for a similar contract or something like that.
18:36
Speaker 2: I think that would be the the and they might
18:38
Speaker 2: they might decide to do that because I just I
18:40
Speaker 2: don't know how you're going to navigate this issue. I mean,
18:42
Speaker 2: it's it's just kind of like they're stuck on it.
18:45
Speaker 2: The best the best solution would be Mike Trap playing
18:47
Speaker 2: defense every day, but I mean I wouldn't rely on
18:52
Speaker 2: that at this point. I mean, you know, going into
18:54
Speaker 2: the season, that will be the plan, I'm sure, but
18:56
Speaker 2: it's not.
18:57
Speaker 3: You know, it's just not a reliable plan. Everything we
19:00
Speaker 3: know from the last five seasons.
19:01
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would I would think they should try
19:03
Speaker 2: to trade them if they can, maybe for a picture
19:06
Speaker 2: that's similar and or you know, a starting picture with
19:08
Speaker 2: a similar type of contract. If not necessarily reliable, but
19:12
Speaker 2: you hope that you can get something out of it.
19:14
Speaker 1: Hey, Sam, we're on a show every day, so we're
19:17
Speaker 1: wrong a lot, we're right sometimes. I'm glad you brought
19:21
Speaker 1: that up. Just dming with Kratz. I'm like, we smash
19:25
Speaker 1: that move last year, respectfully, Like this isn't against Torgues
19:29
Speaker 1: sol Layer and we know that the Angels needed power.
19:32
Speaker 1: I remember everything about it because I start to harp
19:34
Speaker 1: on certain things and it was like, Oh, Trout's going
19:38
Speaker 1: to take too many swings if he's at DH And
19:40
Speaker 1: I'm with you on this pushing forward part too. Really
19:43
Speaker 1: going to throw Mike Trout into the outfield regularly center field?
19:46
Speaker 1: Get out of here. You're gonna put Trout running around
19:48
Speaker 1: center field at the age and the injuries that he's
19:51
Speaker 1: gone through, some of which seem chronic at this point
19:54
Speaker 1: to me, I think Mike Trout still has value as
19:56
Speaker 1: a bat, and I think he can feel significant h time.
20:00
Speaker 1: I mean, he's certainly being paid to contribute as much
20:03
Speaker 1: as possible, so I would figure that out. That's why
20:05
Speaker 1: for me, the move baffled me so much last year.
20:08
Speaker 1: It's not against or Laier, it's not against the dh spot,
20:11
Speaker 1: but how they looked at it. For Mike Trout to
20:13
Speaker 1: get himself back on the field. I'm sure there's pushback
20:15
Speaker 1: from Mike, as you're a competitor and one of the
20:17
Speaker 1: best in the sport for a long period of time.
20:20
Speaker 1: You want to see that. But the organization is to
20:22
Speaker 1: push back, like, hey, dude, paying a ton of money,
20:24
Speaker 1: we want to take care of you and make sure
20:26
Speaker 1: that you get as many AB's as possible. That's your
20:28
Speaker 1: value at this point in your career.
20:30
Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at their lineup last year,
20:32
Speaker 2: I mean they had the second most strikeouts in the
20:33
Speaker 2: history of baseball last year. That team, I mean, this
20:35
Speaker 2: was a team that just was not putting the ball
20:37
Speaker 2: in play. So you're at this point, I mean, you
20:39
Speaker 2: know you got to be you know, having horses Hilaire
20:43
Speaker 2: in your lineup is they wanted puplic They needed like
20:46
Speaker 2: that type of power after last offseasons, So I think
20:49
Speaker 2: that was like kind of the idea behind it, but
20:51
Speaker 2: it didn't really.
20:52
Speaker 3: Pay off in any capacity.
20:53
Speaker 2: I mean, he hit some home runs, but it wasn't
20:54
Speaker 2: you know, he wasn't even available for much of the season.
20:57
Speaker 3: And you know.
20:58
Speaker 2: That even goes devtails into the other things, which which is,
21:00
Speaker 2: you know, what do you do at third base? I mean,
21:02
Speaker 2: you keep a Christian more out there, or you know,
21:04
Speaker 2: you got von Grissom, or you know, Oswald Peroza. But
21:07
Speaker 2: you're also dealing with a lot of players that continue
21:09
Speaker 2: to have strikeout these strikeout issues. So I don't you know,
21:12
Speaker 2: I don't know what they're going to do. They need
21:13
Speaker 2: to have a third basement. They just this has been
21:15
Speaker 2: this position since they signed Rendon. It's just been one
21:17
Speaker 2: after the other after the other after the other. It
21:19
Speaker 2: has been nothing but like disaster at that position. So
21:22
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're going to just try to
21:24
Speaker 2: run out one of the guys they already have, if
21:25
Speaker 2: they're going to try to make an acquisition of some kind.
21:27
Speaker 2: But I think the players that you're working with on
21:29
Speaker 2: your roster are huge strikeout prone players at this point. Now,
21:33
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know if that's a coaching thing.
21:34
Speaker 2: They've got a new coach, whole new coaching staff, new manager,
21:37
Speaker 2: everything like that, so maybe there's a different approach that's
21:39
Speaker 2: coming up. But I think my concern would be for
21:41
Speaker 2: this lineup is that it's still going to be really
21:43
Speaker 2: strikeout heavy.
21:45
Speaker 5: I want to hit on Rendon a little bit here
21:48
Speaker 5: for the off season topic number two. You talked about
21:51
Speaker 5: his replacement. Fine, okay, understandable. That's you know, if you're
21:54
Speaker 5: an Angels fan, that's frustrating here because ultimately you're looking
21:57
Speaker 5: for somebody to solidify that spot. Are they working on
22:00
Speaker 5: a buyout plan for Anthony? Or is are they talking
22:04
Speaker 5: about something about him?
22:05
Speaker 2: I think take a preliminary stage right now, if I
22:08
Speaker 2: had to kind of read between the lines of you know,
22:10
Speaker 2: I think that's what Perry would love, if I had
22:12
Speaker 2: to guess.
22:13
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, he's on the last year of
22:14
Speaker 3: his contract.
22:16
Speaker 2: So my question with Rindon is always, is it really
22:18
Speaker 2: even valuable to them to work on this buy out?
22:20
Speaker 2: I kind of waffle between that those two competing thoughts
22:23
Speaker 2: because I mean, the Angels really going to be competitive
22:25
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six given what we saw last year,
22:27
Speaker 2: given the roster, I mean, is this really a team
22:29
Speaker 2: that you expect to like be a playoff team next year?
22:32
Speaker 2: And I mean I wouldn't personally, So doesn't make sense
22:36
Speaker 2: to just like pay this contract out, get it over,
22:38
Speaker 2: get it off your books, get it out of your life.
22:40
Speaker 2: Get it out of your headspace or do you want
22:42
Speaker 2: to because any sort of buyout would probably mean a
22:44
Speaker 2: deferral of some kind. So if then you're paying him
22:47
Speaker 2: more money next year of the year after, So that's
22:50
Speaker 2: that's really the question, you know, for me, And you
22:54
Speaker 2: know it's the we already know already hates these deferrals.
22:57
Speaker 2: We saw that with show A. Obviously this is not
22:59
Speaker 2: something he typically does. So I think that if the
23:02
Speaker 2: front office, I think everyone maybe below Ardy would love
23:05
Speaker 2: to see some sort of deferral plan. But I don't
23:07
Speaker 2: know exactly where it all stands, and I do think
23:08
Speaker 2: this will ultimately be an already conversation with Boris and
23:11
Speaker 2: with with Anthony, with everybody that's you know, directly involved
23:15
Speaker 2: in that process. I don't I just don't think through that.
23:17
Speaker 3: I don't.
23:17
Speaker 2: I don't want to report exactly. I don't know for sure,
23:19
Speaker 2: but I don't think it's like on the doorstep or anything.
23:21
Speaker 2: It could be wrong, but that's not the sense I've gotten.
23:25
Speaker 2: But again, I don't know if it's the smart thing
23:27
Speaker 2: for them to do. Part of me just says get
23:29
Speaker 2: get Let this contract be this contract, and we shouldn't,
23:33
Speaker 2: you know, worry about you know, is Perry gonna get
23:36
Speaker 2: his shot at a playoff team or at more money
23:38
Speaker 2: in free agency this season when I'm not sure the
23:40
Speaker 2: Angels have justified spending big this offseason, and you know,
23:44
Speaker 2: trying to really go for it next year, even though
23:45
Speaker 2: that's kind of what they do every year, is just
23:47
Speaker 2: you know, pretend to go for it.
23:50
Speaker 4: Your third point is find reliable starting pitching is almost
23:54
Speaker 4: a laughable comment when Ardi Moreno is still your owner
23:59
Speaker 4: of a team. I feel like for years he's hamstrung
24:02
Speaker 4: his GMS into finding that reliable starting pitching because I
24:10
Speaker 4: think the number that you sent over was sixty percent
24:13
Speaker 4: of their starting rotation hasn't made a start in a
24:16
Speaker 4: Big League since twenty twenty four.
24:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it depends on how you view men. Noah,
24:20
Speaker 2: is he look in the rotation to see a bullpen guy?
24:22
Speaker 2: Is he someone that has to earn it? But I mean,
24:24
Speaker 2: if you you know, you look at Rodriguez and you
24:26
Speaker 2: look at Reed Detmer's who was in the bullpenal last year,
24:29
Speaker 2: I mean that's kind of you know that those guys
24:33
Speaker 2: have more solidified spots at this point, so you know,
24:37
Speaker 2: and then I think your most reliable guy is probably Usiekikuchi.
24:41
Speaker 2: This guy's always made his starts, He's always been available.
24:43
Speaker 2: That's kind of his calling card, and I think it's
24:45
Speaker 2: what makes him very valuable in a lot of ways.
24:47
Speaker 2: But you know, Soriano is good. He's a really good pitterer.
24:51
Speaker 2: I think he's all Star caliber, if not better than that.
24:54
Speaker 2: But you know, he's also had the wildly inconsistent I
24:56
Speaker 2: think the one thing that the Angels have done really
24:58
Speaker 2: well the offseason they hired my maddis now that you
25:01
Speaker 2: know what difference that makes in this and this whole
25:03
Speaker 2: equation is to be seen, I think, but I would
25:05
Speaker 2: give them credit for that higher I think that is,
25:08
Speaker 2: you know, that's a that's a good addition, right this guy.
25:10
Speaker 2: The Texas Rangers have the best pitching staff in baseball
25:13
Speaker 2: last year, and I don't necessarily think that equates to
25:15
Speaker 2: the Angels will have the best pitching staff in baseball,
25:17
Speaker 2: But you know, it's good to have someone with with
25:19
Speaker 2: that pedigree at least overseeing some of these younger pitchers
25:22
Speaker 2: and overseeing some of these reclamation projects because ultimately, those
25:25
Speaker 2: who are who the Angels seem to do that, they're
25:27
Speaker 2: going to be relying on you know.
25:28
Speaker 3: They can make they can make more moves.
25:30
Speaker 2: I still think that that is very much on the
25:32
Speaker 2: table to add a starting pitching. But for right now,
25:35
Speaker 2: what they're what it looks like is is a lot
25:37
Speaker 2: of guys that you can't really count on and you
25:39
Speaker 2: just kind of hope work out.
25:45
Speaker 1: That's all we got. Sam's off the hot seat. Sam,
25:48
Speaker 1: that was great stuff.
25:48
Speaker 4: Man.
25:50
Speaker 1: Thanks for Evan, although I'm sure you probably have been
25:53
Speaker 1: doing a lot of listening in the courthouse.
25:55
Speaker 3: So a verdict though.
25:59
Speaker 1: Is that what that's where you are right now? Right
26:01
Speaker 1: you're sitting waiting for.
26:02
Speaker 3: Me on my car outside the courthouse. Yeah, I'm gonna
26:05
Speaker 3: do it from the courthouse.
26:06
Speaker 2: And then your producer said that there was a lot
26:07
Speaker 2: of talk back, and I was like, I gotta get
26:08
Speaker 2: at it.
26:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably better to be outside the courthouse.
26:11
Speaker 3: And there's a variety of reasons.
26:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, producer lady is tough.
26:16
Speaker 2: She's the best.
26:17
Speaker 1: Sam, you too, Man, great work on this. Really appreciate it.
26:19
Speaker 1: It's been fascinating to read all about what's going on here.
26:23
Speaker 1: And we'll catch it from where Angels talk at some.
26:25
Speaker 3: Point soon thany time. Thank you guys for having me
26:27
Speaker 3: I appreciate it,