Latest / Serious Lady Business / Check In, Don’t Check Out: Endora, Reflective Play, and the Science of Nostalgic Healing
Transcript
- Leslie Youngblood (00:01) Welcome to Serious Lady Business. I'm Leslie Youngblood, your host, feminist and founder of Youngblood MMC, a marketing, media and content agency. Today, I would like you to meet two incredible ladies, Kitty Bogle Sherman and Coco Harmon. They're millennial sisters, moms and co-founders of Endora. Endora is a wellness gaming app designed to support the generation now facing the highest rates of anxiety and depression since the Great Depression, millennial mothers. I feel like every millennial mother out there will be like, yup, that tracks. Now, Endora transforms your personal memories, photos, videos, and moments from your camera roll into classic mobile games that encourage reflection, joy, and emotional healing. Instead of checking out, you're checking in. The result is a nostalgic, deeply personal experience that taps into the science of memory and something called nostalgic reflection to reduce stress and build resilience. And it's incredibly fun and easy to use. Kitty & Coco (00:35) this. Leslie Youngblood (00:59) I'm so excited to have them here to chat about their journey. Welcome Kitty and Coco. So we are going to... Hey! my goodness. So we're talking, like, I think this is... Your sisters, your mothers, there's so much, like, I wanna like dig in, dig in. And we're talking, checking out, like, or check in, don't check out, right? Because we all can be very guilty of that. And you've created this important essential app that... Kitty & Coco (01:04) Thank you so much, Leslie. I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for having us. Leslie Youngblood (01:26) utilizes something that all of us mothers, all of us humans now have endless thousands and thousands of pictures on our camera roll. But I would love to, as always, like start at the beginning with the both of you. Tell us that personal story that led the two of you, two sisters, two moms, to say we're going to build a company and not just like a coping mechanism. Kitty & Coco (01:46) So, you know, it was really sort of like a confluence of things. There's a backstory that involves sort of early loss in our lives and, you know, how that impacted our family, like through generations. And so there's that side of things. There's a side of things where Coco and I had always been sort of scheming together. So there was like this entrepreneurial thread that existed already. And then... We became mothers, the pandemic hit, and we had already been talking about doing something together. We got into the memory space because of that sort of early loss. And our initial app actually was more death and legacy focused. Leslie Youngblood (02:36) Mm-hmm. Kitty & Coco (02:37) but the way that the memories came into it and the way that this product of like the check in, not check out, how that all really happened though was in this process of getting into the memory business. And then also being like the mothers of two young children during the pandemic, you know, there were some habits that we noticed, like we had accumulated so many photos as mothers, especially at sort of the first mothers to have that kind of ability at their fingertips. Leslie Youngblood (03:05) Yay! Kitty & Coco (03:07) you know, we would find ourselves like, you know, we should be sleeping. We're scrolling through our camera roll. I don't know if you've ever experienced that. Like you put your child to bed and you're like, whoo, okay, I know I really need to go get my sleep. But actually then you're like looking at the pictures you just took of them. And so that's really sort of how we started to like think about what could we do with these? Because it feels like there isn't anything to do with the pictures we're taking besides scroll. Leslie Youngblood (03:14) Mm. Of course. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Kitty & Coco (03:37) flip side of that is of course like realizing that us as millennial moms and then all of our peers were really just, let's just say we were surviving, not thriving. Leslie Youngblood (03:50) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah. Kitty & Coco (03:52) felt really wrong to us and Leslie Youngblood (03:52) Yeah. Kitty & Coco (03:55) you know so we really just set out to provide a tool that would enable like all these moms who have like no time and no mental energy but you know enable them to tap into something that feels really good but instead of it being like the feel-good like social media and then sort of kicking off all these negative outcomes it's a different kind of feel-good that actually like battles anxiety and depression and sparks Leslie Youngblood (04:16) Mm-hmm. Kitty & Coco (04:22) creativity and optimism. Leslie Youngblood (04:24) Yes, definitely. think, mean, that is so true what you said. Like we are the first generation of parents to have the ability to literally just click, click, click, click, click video, video, video, video, video. And, and not only like, do we have this massive library but then you have to pay for the storage too. Or it's like, I have all these pictures and it's just so crazy. And like, and you're just like kind of like shoveling it off to the side. And then you also forget about a lot of the pictures and videos that you have taken. So then to have that app that serves Kitty & Coco (04:34) Yeah. of looking. Leslie Youngblood (04:53) up to you and again isn't doom scrolling is like you know time that's actually like making you feel good which is also something that's so funny too that you said like after they go to bed you go and look at pictures of them because yes it's like you're you're like my god get these kids to bed my god i need some time the first thing you do when they go to bed it's like look at the pictures i love these like it's so Kitty & Coco (05:00) Yes. Yes. 100 % yes. And then it's like 3am and you're like, okay, terrific. And then like you've done that and then you've been on social media and then you're just like terrific. Yeah, exactly. Leslie Youngblood (05:22) Yeah. Yeah. And you're like even more like fried and like mentally drained and so to have something that like curates like that positivity and like take something that you already have like into this. And so you mentioned like you both were entrepreneurial. Like tell us about your background. Like was it in tech development? Was it in marketing? I would love to know just like the or was this completely new and that you figured it out like together along the way? Tell us. Kitty & Coco (05:48) All of you above. Go first, Coco. Okay, I'll go first. So my background was in finance and then I also had like a part of my degree that was information management. And so out of college, I actually kind of combined those and went to work for a fintech company based in Atlanta. And so that's where I really kind of cut my teeth. They were really hitting their growth stage and I was there for some like formative years as a product manager, kind of working with the founders and Leslie Youngblood (05:59) you Kitty & Coco (06:18) working with the developers and sales team and customer service kind of, you know, had a good sense of like every area of that business ⁓ and just really enjoyed it. And I think there I was always fascinated that they were taking, you know, it was people's financial data. ⁓ And then, you know, it was a database based platform and then selling it back to some of like the customers, some of their own data. And so in a lot of ways, you know, we were creating charts and reports and like different things you could do. Leslie Youngblood (06:33) you Kitty & Coco (06:48) with the data and so kind of with what we're doing now I feel like it's sort of like we're taking your memories and then we're doing we're creating fun things interesting things that you can do with them and then just giving them back to you and so you know I kind of see the parallel ⁓ which is kind of fun. Leslie Youngblood (07:05) Yeah, amazing. And it's always good to have a financial person at a startup in a business. Kitty, like what a blessing to what about yourself, Kitty? Tell us about your background. Kitty & Coco (07:18) So I didn't have a tech background at all. And I really wasn't even aware of like the basics of the industry. That was Coco's field. So I went to law school and worked for public defenders. And then when I graduated, went and worked for a Congressman on the Hill. And so then I just kind of got into politics and was there for a long time. And along the way, sort of had like a random Basically, we live in Longview, Texas. This is our hometown. But we moved as kids and moved around a lot. We would always come home and like spend the summers with our grandmother. But I, we definitely never saw ourselves living here as adults. I think that would be like a fair thing to say as kids. And so I was working in DC and I came back home to work temporarily on a campaign and I met my husband. And so like that year there were problems with the elections. So they kept getting put. Leslie Youngblood (08:04) I mean. Kitty & Coco (08:18) and push and push by the time it was over I stayed. I did continue to work in politics like here and elsewhere, but this is how I also kind of like took a sort of side route into nonprofit administration. So ended up running a homeless mission here and that was an incredible learning experience. ⁓ And after that sort of recognizing, I think there I learned a lot about like culture, establishing, changing it, mission, vision, like all of those kinds of things. Leslie Youngblood (08:31) Mm-hmm. Mm. Kitty & Coco (08:53) obviously to like running an operation. ⁓ And so then I was really interested in leadership and that kind of side of business because I just sort of developed a theory, you know, from politics to nonprofit to the business world that, you know, really the most important thing is leadership. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (09:14) Mmm. Kitty & Coco (09:14) and mission and vision. And if you have those things right, you orient around those things, like, I think you can kind of make anything work. And so I was doing a little bit of consulting on that front when Coco and I, and she was too actually, we had both kind of like taken a step back, being very young children moms, and then we kind of were both doing consulting in our respective areas. And... Leslie Youngblood (09:17) Thanks watching. Mm-hmm. Kitty & Coco (09:40) Coco had this idea with the memories and so we just decided to do it. Leslie Youngblood (09:45) I love it. That's amazing. What I think is so important that I hope listeners really take from that too, and we talked about this on a previous episode, is those transferable skills. Just because you've never been in business technology doesn't mean you won't be great at it because you have all like the finance background, you have the leadership background, politics, like background, the nonprofit, like you have seen all the different facets and you've seen others lead and navigate. And so to take that, what you like and also what you don't like, Kitty & Coco (09:54) you Mm-hmm. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (10:15) to like, know, what you don't want to take with you to be able to bring that to the forefront with your own organization. And so I just always encourage any woman that's like, but I don't know business or I don't know sass. It's like, I'm telling you that nine out of the 10 dudes that are getting those like doing it don't know it either, but they're just doing the dang thing. And that's what I think is so important. Like for us women, it's like that we can't like get those little like the little bad like voice in our head, like saying we can't do it. Like that's why you have to have the audacity like everybody else to go and Kitty & Coco (10:15) Yes. Thank 100 % Leslie Youngblood (10:45) Like try, right? Like you just have to do it and you will figure it out just the way that you guys, you ladies have figured it out. And what I also think is so great there too is... Kitty & Coco (10:51) Yes. Leslie Youngblood (10:55) And I know I was guilty of this too before I had kids where it's like, I'm going to have kids. And then what am I getting my career? Like, what am I going to do? Like, it's not going to be the same. Well, it's not going to be the same. And there is going to be that phase of your life where you have little kids and that is your priority for a while. But I have found, I would love to hear your ladies take on this too, is I'm so much more motivated, productive, and like excited about my career and what I'm doing now that I have children. Like they have inspired me to Kitty & Coco (11:23) I have to go to bed. Leslie Youngblood (11:25) do more and share more of the gifts and my passions that I have. And so just because you have kids, it's like, yeah, take the time. Maybe don't go back to work, right? Like it's neither, it's like up to you, but when you worry like, I'm not going because I have kids, it might hold me back. Like I have just found the complete opposite. So I would love to hear your take on that too. Kitty & Coco (11:36) Good night. out. I think we feel exactly the same way. And one element of that is I think when you have kids, it's sort of like to bring it back to our reflection mission. It's even a pressure cooker of sorts. And I think at some point also you realize that like everybody wants the best for their kids. And the best thing that you can do for their happy future is to model it. And it's like, what do I want for my children? Well, I want them to follow. Leslie Youngblood (11:55) Mm-hmm. sure. Mm-hmm. Right. Kitty & Coco (12:14) their passions and love what they do and hopefully want to attack the world in some way. But we have to do that genuinely ourselves. And so it is really motivating to, think it's really for me, I can't speak for Coco, but for me, really having children completely sparked like a very intense, it's been 12 years now, period of reflection and evolution. Leslie Youngblood (12:15) Mmm. Mmm. Yeah, right, right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kitty & Coco (12:44) Yeah, I think like the personal growth just yeah due to that pressure you're talking about of reflection I've seen yourself and your kids to like you learn so much about yourself. Yes Through them. It's such a crazy mirror in so many ways And yeah, it's I totally agree that they they've motivated us more and make you more excited about it like completely agree I want to go back to one thing you said to about lady Leslie Youngblood (12:53) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Kitty & Coco (13:14) who are worried about the impact of a break on their career or just concerned that like well I can't even you know I would forgive a lady outside of the tech industry for attending a tech industry event and walking away thinking well I know nothing. But like you said well probably most of the people you spoke to also know nothing number one. Leslie Youngblood (13:29) Mmm. Kitty & Coco (13:35) Number two, the technical side of building products. When people talk about AI and how things will change, I think that is going to become less of a differentiator as a skill. It's about your intangibles. And like you were saying, like what have you learned across your diverse array of experiences that you can then like, you know, coalesce into your way of doing things. So I would look at it like that. Leslie Youngblood (13:47) Please do. Mm-hmm. Yes. Kitty & Coco (14:05) you Leslie Youngblood (14:06) Yeah. 100%. And you know, they always, what is it? Like women will only apply to a job if we reach like 80 % of the criteria in men, in like men is like 30%. It's like the same thing like with business. And also there's, you know, I think it's important to, I don't know who it was, but like to come at it from like a, a growth mindset. Like I'm learning to be a business owner. I'm learning to make this product instead of being like, stink at this. Like, I don't know how to build a product. Well, yeah, probably every other, you know, it blows my mind sometimes where like even if you Kitty & Coco (14:26) Yes. Yeah. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (14:36) look around like sitting in your house you're like this house exists because somebody had the audacity be like I'm gonna build a house and I'm gonna it's like you know that person was crazy and like cars and all the things that we have in this world it's like they didn't know how to do that they just kept going you knew like I'm gonna learn how to do this I'm gonna learn how to build this and so I just think that's something so important for us to every single person that has an idea that sparked within them and wants you something to just do it and take that step. Kitty & Coco (14:43) percent. ⁓ Yes. And then just like follow your North Star because the path will probably not be illuminated like a long straight. it's like step by step the little rock lights up. So just follow your mission, you know, or that's I mean, I say this like follow your mission and you can be a billionaire like me. These are just, you know, Our learnings so far, you know. Leslie Youngblood (15:09) No. It's Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Somebody was saying and we're millennials. So maybe you both seem but like Indiana Jones in the movie where he has to go across the invisible bridge and it's like not lit up like that's kind of like it as an entrepreneur, you just have to like maybe get some dust. You see the bridge but you got to just take that first step. Kitty & Coco (15:38) Yes. Yes. Yes, we are. I feel like that's in a lot of like, like is it in Raya or there's some cartoon I saw onward. Like that concept. I thought every time, like through this vantage point, I'm like, that's exactly what I'm talking about. That's it's like, maybe we know it's a true thing because it's in our stories, you know, it's like part of our mythology, but that concept might be a little more like physically real on this than we Leslie Youngblood (15:53) Yes! Yes. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Yes. I'm here. Kitty & Coco (16:16) even understand. Leslie Youngblood (16:16) Yeah, yes, 100%. Now tell me, so Coco, you had this idea and Kitty, you knew she had this idea. You guys are like putting it together. Like what did it look like when you, or what did it look like when you both were like, yeah, no, let's do this. Let's go all in on this. Like what were the conversations? Was there a moment where you're like, yep, nope, it's happening. We're doing this. Tell us about that. Kitty & Coco (16:41) So. I feel like it was, we were at an event actually for one of our great aunts, like a memorial event. And so we had come together, because at the time I was living in Florida and she was here in Texas. I've since moved here as well. And this was right before the pandemic. so this was like November, I think, or February. the first one was February 2020. Oh, yeah. Like very close. Like it was already. Leslie Youngblood (16:56) you Oh, like, cusp. Kitty & Coco (17:12) kind of happening. I think my in-laws had a cruise to... was August. We're shutting down. Leslie Youngblood (17:15) The map was not bright red all over the ice age. Kitty & Coco (17:19) We haven't yet. But anyway, and so I think I happened to be working on something where I had a development team offshore who I had access to and I had been doing projects with and so sort of like this kind of opportunity arose to like, okay, well we have people who could build like a little prototype for us, you know, and I can just, you know, since I have a Leslie Youngblood (17:41) you Kitty & Coco (17:42) background as product manager, I can design it and kind of tell them what we want. And you were winding down on a consulting job. And so it was just kind of like we had the chance to both sort of like take some time on it. ⁓ And then the pandemic hit. I think we were about to start development and then the pandemic hit and we were homeschooling. And so we paused. We didn't start right away. That time the whole world was like upside down, like completely upside down. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (18:02) I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Kitty & Coco (18:11) But I think that summer, I think you emailed me or you called me and said, Hey, I hope you don't mind. I applied to a pitch competition with a deck and I was like, okay, cool. You know, we'll see what happens, you know? Yes. And then it turns out like that was actually the beginning of a really incredible relationship with a new kind of startup competition at the time called Code Launch. And so they helped non-technical founders. Leslie Youngblood (18:20) ⁓ Mmm. Mmm. Kitty & Coco (18:41) which was us and so we ended up like I think where we were alternate. Yeah, we like almost made it to the final so that involved us like going to Dallas and pitching and doing all this stuff which Coco at least had a concept of and I had no we were definitely faking our way. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (18:43) Right. you Fake it Kitty & Coco (19:06) Like and sort of like we think just like bulls in a shine shop. Yeah, so probably but I what what's interesting about that is like two of the people three of the people all three of the people in that first meeting that we ever had where we came in person and in this pitch and like I still remember exactly what we wore and everything our our friends today like which is putting it lightly but really integral members actually of our journey and so like full circle They've grown a tremendous amount. Their thing is venture attainment and they're all about conscious capitalism. They're just like really an incredible organization tied to a big development firm called Improving. But basically they now have like a world championships in Dallas. Last year was their first one. And so we made it to that and there were three categories and we won two of them. Yeah. So was really exciting. Leslie Youngblood (19:43) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Amazing! Kitty & Coco (20:06) Full circle moment. Totally was like the very first thing and that was like five years ago. Well, I guess four years ago when we were back on stage. So it took a little bit. A lot happened in between. And I would say that the whole deal there was like we just really lucked out and connected with our vibe. The people were our vibe. So like if you find people who are your vibe, I think go with them. It's more of a back trail. Leslie Youngblood (20:13) Amazing. Shit. Yeah, yeah, for sure. think that... Right. think that's such a gift. Right. Or it's like when somebody gets it and when like they like and when you vibe with them, especially when you're building something that doesn't exist. Right. And so it can be really hard and lonely. The road of entrepreneurship in general, but then to also like, you know, try to like explain it and to have somebody get it. And that light bulb goes on for them like that's like so magical. And it feels like you are again on that right path, like another little pebble just lit up for you to like take another step forward or let someone Kitty & Coco (20:54) What do you ⁓ Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (21:04) somebody's on that path with you. us about other, like, did you enter other pitch competitions? Did you enter incubators? Like, did you, was community very much like instrumental in helping you grow indoor? Tell us a little about that aspect. Yes, yes. Kitty & Coco (21:19) We've done a lot of pitch competitions. We've traveled in a few of all of the above. Again, see all of the above. We've had a wide range of experiences. So we, in terms of like pitch competitions, we were involved with Code Launch for a while. So that involved another like live stage pitch. They put on quite the production. So we've done that a few times with them over the years. One, probably the most like hilarious, Leslie Youngblood (21:41) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kitty & Coco (21:50) competition we've been involved with was the snark tank. ⁓ So that was in Austin like last fall and basically it was at a comedy club and there were a few founders there that were selected. think there were five. During Austin Tech Week. Yeah, during Austin Tech Week. So everybody got a chance to pitch and then there was a panel of comedians who would just roast the startups. It was a pitch. Leslie Youngblood (21:55) snarked me. Okay. No. Kitty & Coco (22:19) Very fun. Very interesting. actually was. Leslie Youngblood (22:21) It was fine. Like that would give me anxiety. Kitty & Coco (22:25) actually was. But also though, we met a lot of interesting people that night, again, that we're still in contact with. But one of them is a big partner now of ours with the moon mission that we might talk about later. But we never would have met him if it weren't for that. Do you want to talk about our accelerators? Well, and we should also mention Startup Grind. Startup Grind, we did a really fun pitch earlier this year. It was like a kind of modeled after a March Madness. It was a big bracket of 64 startups and there were three rounds, I think, of one minute like battles basically. So you would just face off against a startup and then get voted through to the next round. We did make it to the top eight. So that was fun. But one fun surprise was we sent in a deck for you have to send in your deck in advance, obviously, in case you made it. So we did. But as we like to do, we like completely changed our deck between the time of submission Leslie Youngblood (22:53) Yeah. Woo! Are we leaving? you Kitty & Coco (23:18) changed our pitch between submitting and getting there. And so I used the new pitch in our like leading up rounds because you know, we thought it was better and it worked. it didn't need the deck. need the deck and those pitches. So it didn't matter at all. But then when we got to the night of we weren't expecting to make it A. So when we got, you know, chosen, we had like an hour to prepare. We were like. Leslie Youngblood (23:19) Hmm. Right. Kitty & Coco (23:42) Well, shit. We to like make the new pitch kind of fit this whole deck. yeah. my heart wasn't in the old pitch at that point. Right. So I really wanted the new pitch The new one was working. It really didn't. But anyway, but it was really amazing. And that's another super fun startup community. I feel like if you're a woman, you, unless you're really like just straight up from the tech industry, startup grind and code launch, I think are two of the best places. Leslie Youngblood (23:47) Yeah. Hmm... yeah. Yeah, no. you Kitty & Coco (24:13) to go where people are just going to be. Have you heard of like prevention versus promotion oriented questions? Leslie Youngblood (24:20) ⁓ tell us about those. Kitty & Coco (24:21) Okay, we will send you a link to this. This is a Harvard study that's a few years old at this point, I think. But basically they studied like founders pitching and then being questioned by VCs. And this goes for male and female VCs. So that's kind of interesting, but basically like male founders are asked promotion questions. basically what is going to happen if this works? Let's talk about all this. Leslie Youngblood (24:37) Mm-hmm. Mmmmm Kitty & Coco (24:51) ⁓ what if you get a partnership with Nike? know, they can really they explore the potential Women get prevention oriented questions. Well, how are you gonna do this? ⁓ well, how will that work? Someone else could come along and copy you or whatever right? ways Leslie Youngblood (24:55) Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kitty & Coco (25:14) that won't work. And from an emotional standpoint, we're totally over that. I mean, it's just the way people are. But ⁓ it's really good to know. And if you want to go somewhere and be in a promotion-oriented environment, Pro Launch Startup Grind, in our experience so far with both of those organizations, are two places that can, I think, really be a difference maker in your mentality, being surrounded by people like that. Leslie Youngblood (25:26) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It truly and like that's I mean, I would love to hear your take on like the percentage of the mental game that it is right like you don't realize how much of a mental game entrepreneurship is until you're in the game and then you're like, no, what have I done? So that as a resource, it really I do feel like makes so much of a difference now and I think that's so interesting the the promotional versus the preventative questions and to be able to prepare for those right because you're going to get Kitty & Coco (25:49) Mm-hmm. Thanks. Leslie Youngblood (26:14) them no matter what. Kitty & Coco (26:15) Exactly. Leslie Youngblood (26:16) And it's, it is what it is, right? And it's not gonna like hinder you. It's not gonna hold you back. Like to be like, it's like any type of athlete preparing for a game or any type of person prepping for any type of scenario, right? In terms of planning, right? It's just part of the gig. But like, did you ever feel like underestimated or like, ⁓ you know, was it frustrating when people didn't get it? Like at first, tell us a little about that journey for the both of you. Kitty & Coco (26:21) Yes. exactly. next. think there have been moments, there have been a few moments people have told us either to like forget the mission and you know... Leslie Youngblood (26:49) Mm. Kitty & Coco (26:51) Creating games with your memories could just make a ton of money. Just worry about that. The reflection is a little woo woo. Is that real? And so I think we kind of realized that really pushed us towards actually one of our first advisors, who's the leading researcher in the scientific field of nostalgic reflection. he's done 20 years of research on this topic and knows all about the potential it has and the effects of it and how it is, know, ⁓ all of the magic that it really ⁓ can do, you know. And we all possess our own unique data set to like activate that. One thing to add to that too, in terms of like feeling maybe underestimated, like of course, and that's annoying. And then I think you have to, anyone, especially the beginning, you're like, you don't get it. Like, God, that's annoying. Leslie Youngblood (27:38) Yes. Kitty & Coco (27:51) But then you realize like, well, I'm probably not doing a good job of pitching it. And that was definitely me for like 4.5 years. So you also have to be honest enough to evaluate like. Leslie Youngblood (27:56) Yeah. Kitty & Coco (28:05) why aren't they getting it? You know, okay, we need to take the science. Well, that was the first we had to find the science because initially we were working out our gut feelings and how and what we experienced and how it had made us feel. And, you know, so then we had to find the science that really backed it up even more than we could imagine because we didn't know any science to back it up. So that was kind of a cool pivotal moment for us. A moment was actually once we discovered the science. Leslie Youngblood (28:06) That's right! bright. Yeah, wow. Kitty & Coco (28:35) science, we felt totally opened up to just make, figure out how to make reflection easy and fun. And just if we can scale reflection, then we can spark the evolution and we can spark the innovation and can spark the personal growth. And so if we can just figure out how to make that easy and fun, which is what we've done with the playing with your memories, then the benefits will, it half-falls. Leslie Youngblood (28:42) Mm-hmm. Right, that's amazing. Yes. Kitty & Coco (29:00) And I'd like to also mention one other thing, because I feel like this is a really big difference from the mindset in 2020 to today in our favor, and we're excited that more people are here and talking about it. But I will say that there were people who questioned our underlying premises about millennial women. their habits, how they were feeling about them. And obviously these were not millennial women, you know, that we were speaking to. But people who said things like they didn't understand when we said, we spoke to our customers, we surveyed them and nine out of 10 women, when they have a moment of break in their day, when they open their phone, they go to social media. But those same women also tell us that they feel really bad about the time they're spending. Leslie Youngblood (29:25) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Kitty & Coco (29:52) And how it makes them feel across the board, not just as a mom, but as a, you know, all of that. how frustrated you are that despite all of that, you still can't get off. Leslie Youngblood (29:57) Bye. Yeah, it's addicting. Kitty & Coco (30:04) And so people really questioned that assumption. then I also think that, you know, we knew that there was something that basically our generation, like people today to like go to a bigger tech message. All of these products have been designed scientifically by really brilliant people to addict us. And now we know that the outcomes are bad and no one's really being held accountable. One reason for that is because there Leslie Youngblood (30:07) Hmm. Kitty & Coco (30:33) business models are not sustainable if we're looking at things from an outcomes-oriented perspective. And so I'd say that's another thing. Like, I don't know that everyone in tech wants to talk about that. Leslie Youngblood (30:40) Mm-hmm. Hmm... Uh-huh... Kitty & Coco (30:48) But that is the reality and we're not trying to like, I mean, that's just the reality. And if we're not dealing in reality, we definitely can't fix our problems. So we wanna be part of the solution, part of this next generation of products. Like if you can scale for negativity, you can definitely scale for positivity. You just have to want to. Leslie Youngblood (30:54) Right. Mm. Yeah. 100%. Right. Yes, exactly. And I think that is so like, people aren't going, even though we know the ramifications of that, like increasingly, but like, how do you use it for good? Like, how do you get people to feel good about that? like, and because it's not all bad, but that's so, mean, it's like, how incredible that you have this, like in the palm of your hand, like truly in these memories. Yes. Yes. Kitty & Coco (31:18) You huh. What's happening? And here we are. It's amazing. It's wonderful. Yeah. I think it will be the thing that saves us. Actually. Leslie Youngblood (31:39) Yes. Yes. Well, and I always find that to be true. in some like humans have a way of like pushing ourselves to like the edge of like the abyss, right? Like whether it's global warming or like, you know, bad things in the world. it's like, then we always find a way to like rectify it. Or it's like that like drives innovation like plastic, right? Like you find like, the PFAS are all like the chemicals in the plastic, glass is better. Like we're trying to figure out all that. It's like, yeah, we think we're doing good stuff and making a change in it. Like really, there's bad things that Kitty & Coco (31:50) Yes. Yep. Yep. Leslie Youngblood (32:10) come of it but then we can course correct and realize no this can be used for good and so I think that's you don't have to just throw the baby out with the bath water proverbial speaking you can use it for good and like there's so much good that can come from it for everybody. Kitty & Coco (32:12) you Exactly. And I think that's what we talk about. Like right now is a good opportunity to reflect on all of that, especially on this, the edge of AI. We really need to figure out how to rein it in and be intentional and transparent and kind of like make more respectful tech. Less exploitative. thing is, is that I think you can still make a ton of money and do that. Well, we talk about like the light. It's not a big app. Leslie Youngblood (32:26) Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes, sure, like yeah, ethical tech, right? Like that's... Sure, I completely agree. Kitty & Coco (32:51) the dark UX, know, there are just, you know, widely accepted kind of ways of coding things that are either light or a dark way of doing it, you know, it comes even just to like notifications and just the kind of just a little subtle ways that things are programmed or designed. ⁓ think just little tweaks to the light instead of the dark I think could be a game changer. Leslie Youngblood (32:53) Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. right. you Yes. Right. Yes, and it does not surprise me one bit that there's two women leading the charge on this, like Ethical Tech and leading it for the light. ⁓ what, yes, right? I mean, let's, right, yeah. Kitty & Coco (33:20) Hahaha We just can't for it Leslie retired it we just And as mothers, especially it's like are you kidding me? Yeah, you guys are trying to literally like mine our children Yeah Like well, I like we like to joke that we're creating like luxury like bougie tech that is like, you know Elevated and in the chum junk tech for us ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (33:36) Yes, yes, truly, I know and you... Yes. Right. Yes, I love it. Like organic for tech. Kitty & Coco (33:53) It's organic. It's organic. It's actually free range grass. It's farm to table type actually. Leslie Youngblood (33:58) Free race. I love it. Like, coin that term. Like, I'm telling you. Trade market. Trade market. Kitty & Coco (34:07) We can talk about small tech. I think that is actually more of the wave of the future too, is that there's a lot more opportunity for smaller tech entrepreneurs and can sort of buy some of these things from your friends or a local approach. A lot of random mobile gaming apps are built. Leslie Youngblood (34:11) Mmm. Yes. Guys. Mm-hmm. Kitty & Coco (34:26) you know, who knows where and ⁓ you know, that like our kids play and it is just again, junk. It's just junk and their ass all over it and their weird ass and. Leslie Youngblood (34:28) Mm-hmm. right. ⁓ Kitty & Coco (34:37) And then, yeah, you go to try to find who built it, and sometimes you can't even really tell who built it. Like, know, we're in the business. I'm looking into these things a little bit more. Who built this game? How did it end up on my phone that my kid's playing? And I think if more people were a little bit more aware of, who's building this, and more intentional of, like, well, maybe I want to buy it from this person. Yeah. You know, I think that's possible. Leslie Youngblood (34:42) Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right? 100%. I completely agree, I completely agree. And tell us more about, mentioned your mission and moon mission, like tell us more about that, because I feel like it's the perfect segue for this. Kitty & Coco (35:15) Okay, so this is just a fun thing that's happening. we are right now leading up to a Kickstarter campaign in November. And so our Kickstarter campaign is gonna include like a lot of cool things, but one of them is a lunar new year event. And so we're very into the moon as a reflective symbol. And also, you know, sort of when you start like kind of tracking your life in moon increments or cycles. Leslie Youngblood (35:18) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mmm. Kitty & Coco (35:45) I probably moon to moon. Moon to moon. Like you look back and it's like you actually can change your life moon to moon. Leslie Youngblood (35:48) Mm-hmm. ⁓ huh, ⁓ yeah. Kitty & Coco (35:55) actually somewhere and you want to be somewhere else actually like moon to moon you can make it happen so we're very into the moon so we have sent andora herself our kind of mascot she's on two missions that are scheduled to launch in 2026 and so basically she's been etched onto these little like pyramids physical pyramids and one of them is going to the moon and one of them is Leslie Youngblood (36:20) Mm-hmm. Kitty & Coco (36:25) to an asteroid. So you know in theory this is so that like future civilizations can like you know see what we were all about but so one kind of our driving tier and actually our next call is with our friends so getting this all like worked out but we want to help people send their memories to space. So we're figuring out how to do that but basically like if you were you know if an alien civilization finds Leslie Youngblood (36:26) Woo. you Kitty & Coco (36:55) these things and they really want to understand like what made us humans like you know we've kind of upgraded from cave drawings I think are cool I mean I don't mean upgrade in a pejorative way but you we've evolved from there and you know so this is basically that so um so it's going to be a whole reflective initiative um and all of this is driving towards we have a goal of a million memories being sparked Leslie Youngblood (36:56) Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kitty & Coco (37:25) And the reason for that is because the tipping point is really not that intimidating. There's only like a small percentage of a population that's needed to adopt a new idea before it kind of spreads throughout the whole population. And so our theory is that even though certain issues seem maybe insurmountable at times, you know, whether that's like geopolitically or just literally in your own day-to-day trying to survive life, actually Leslie Youngblood (37:30) you Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kitty & Coco (37:54) we think things could turn around, but it all will come back to us learning to treat each other differently. We only do that if we reflect. So that's like the whole big picture, how this all ties together, what we're really trying to do. Leslie Youngblood (37:56) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Amazing. I love that so much. you know, I just heard the other day that men's energy cycles last 24 hours. Guess how long women's energy cycles go. The moon, it's the 28 day cycle of the moon, just like our menstrual cycle. And I was like, I was like, you could not get out of town. Like that makes sense. And so that's why men like right there, like re-energize into this. But like we go through like a bit of like the cycles. And so I just think again, with the moon mission, that's just so incredible. It's like a time capsule for space. Like in that way, you never know like beyond, right? We all want to leave a legacy for our children, our future grandchildren. Although family will never know. Kitty & Coco (38:29) Really? ⁓ Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (38:51) like here in our human form, right? And so be able to share that I just think is so fantastic. ⁓ so that's launching in November, did you say, Kitty? Okay, perfect. Kitty & Coco (38:53) Yes. Yes. And then our event will be on the Lunar New Year in February. So we'll obviously keep you posted. are still coming out there. Yeah, we're really excited about this. Leslie Youngblood (39:06) Perfect. Woohoo! I love that. That's incredible. I can't wait to hear more and we'll definitely share the information about that in the show notes too. ⁓ Kitty & Coco (39:18) Okay, you may have Leslie Youngblood (39:19) Yeah, I mean, I would love to. I love the Lunar New Year Kitty & Coco (39:19) to come, Put it in your mind. Leslie Youngblood (39:23) too. I always like, I just love learning about what, is it the Year of the Dragon? What does that mean for me? I'm born in the Year of the Dog and like, and I clean my house, right? And the corners and everything, like, and all like about that. I just love, you know, starting fresh, right? Like, why would you not like do that? Yes. Yes. Kitty & Coco (39:28) Yes. Yeah! Yes, and it kind of makes more sense to like start fresh at that time because right after Christmas, you're like, wait, I'm supposed to get my New Year's resolutions handled? Like my kids aren't even back in school. You know, it actually makes more sense like cyclically. then like a sort of fun fact on us is we spent several years of our childhood in Singapore. And so Lunar New Year, we have like very vivid memories of how Leslie Youngblood (39:47) Bye. Yeah. ⁓ my gosh, right? Right? Yeah. Yes. Kitty & Coco (40:09) that was celebrated there and that sort of sparked our love for it. And then it's like, wait, this is kind of, I prefer it possibly. Yeah. And we might need to lean all in on this. I think like- It makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. And we love it. this actually, that's perfect. Yes, our new calendar. You're wonderful. Leslie Youngblood (40:09) me. Yes. Yeah, right. Yes, same. I think so. You think? Yup. There you go. I love it. Perfect. I love it. Count me in. I'll be there. I love it. Look ⁓ it. So like, and I love watching your dynamic together too, which I think is so fun and unique. How is it being sisters and being co-founders together? Kitty & Coco (40:43) I feel like it's a huge advantage. Yes. And I think that we've been able to like adapt and pivot way faster than maybe the average pair might be able to just because we are so like in sync and I don't think we quite read each other's minds, but maybe. It's possible. Leslie Youngblood (40:50) One. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yeah, sure. Probably the closest, right, that you could ever meet. Kitty & Coco (41:05) Yeah, I think and we can just like bring things up if we're like, my gosh, like do you hate that? Yeah, there's no filter. Yeah, no filter. We aren't afraid to really be honest and I think we adhere to one of our guru Ray Dalio's axioms, which might be ⁓ or maxims. ⁓ Something about basically like not being here to be right. Leslie Youngblood (41:19) Yeah. Kitty & Coco (41:34) but to get it right. We both are just really focused on that. anything there's it kind of helps the ego be removed I think. So we get along very well. We very complimentary still sets but you should know we do live in the same neighborhood like I can almost see her house right there and our kids go to the same school just in the neighborhood. But I think that that's also been sort of like the only way we've been able to make it is to kind Leslie Youngblood (41:35) Bye. ⁓ Right. I love it. That's so awesome. Love it. Kitty & Coco (42:04) of, you know. lives are just, yeah. Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. So I don't really think you could do that with like a non-sister. And as far as the mental game goes, no. I wouldn't be here if I was doing this by myself. Like, not a chance. You know? Leslie Youngblood (42:06) Mm-hmm. yeah. Chaos. Chaos. Right. Right, right, right. Well, and it's like, who's more fun to dish the tea with than your sister? when you have competition or like going through stuff, like that's to be so fun and like, right. And to be able to just talk with just the look or even just body language with like your sibling, like it's just on another level. And so it has to be really fun. But because you have such a special relationship, I feel like not every sibling would be able to do that. Like I don't think I'd be able to do that with my sister. And she's just, right. But it's like, Kitty & Coco (42:26) No, Yeah. Absolutely. 100 % Now we're super lucky and we totally get that. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (42:51) gift like yeah yeah that's wonderful it's a really wonderful thing so tell us Kitty and Coco Coco maybe you can start first like day one Coco like you're all in what advice would you give day one Coco or like one belief to hold and one to drop and then Kitty I want to hear from you too Kitty & Coco (43:13) ⁓ okay. Okay, let me think about this for a second. ⁓ hmm. I think just one belief to hold, guess, probably just like the one foot, just do the next thing. We love to plan big and long-term strategic, but at the end of the day, it's just the one thing in front of you at a time. Just keep going. And just think on that smaller scale, day to day, I guess. Leslie Youngblood (43:39) You Perfect. Kitty & Coco (43:46) And then ⁓ something to release, guess, be just like... I don't know, thinking that you're gonna already know what's going on or that you should already know. It's like we were talking about earlier, everything's kind the learning process. And so just know that you're starting at the beginning and that's okay. I think we've pivoted so many times and we've been in so many different little accelerators and some have been more B2B fast and it was like, okay, that wasn't a right fit. Leslie Youngblood (43:58) you Kitty & Coco (44:23) So think, you know, that would be kind of like, don't, the thing to let go would be thinking like you need to fit in that box if you're not supposed to be in that box. Does that make sense? Because then we've also been in wellness and then we've been in gaming and we've been, and it's really, like, we've kind of evaluated a bunch of different boxes and they haven't been quite right for us just due to the weird kind of thing that we're building, the new thing that we're building. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (44:30) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. I Kitty & Coco (44:52) So yeah, I don't know if that's very Release your expectations maybe. Leslie Youngblood (44:53) love that. That's great. Yeah. Kitty & Coco (44:57) about what you're supposed to already know because okay so that would be I'll say one of mine then is recognize that everywhere you go has a playbook and it's the language that the natives of that circle are speaking it's how they signal to each other if you don't have the playbook it doesn't mean that you're not a smart worthy person means you don't have the playbook so just Leslie Youngblood (44:59) Yeah. Kitty & Coco (45:28) Get it if you want it, you know, but recognize that those are really separate things and that most people are just Doing the playbook that came with their avatar and that's really like the way it is and the other thing I would say like to drop maybe and this is like far less existential is I think in the early stage startup Culture there is an idea that when you go to an event like you could hit Leslie Youngblood (45:29) Yeah. Yes! Kitty & Coco (45:57) someone like you could get money you could get funding like always be ready to you know you never know but it's like I don't know of anyone who's raised money by being like hey look a networking event like Leslie Youngblood (46:00) Mmm. Kitty & Coco (46:13) I don't think incredible investors operate that way. don't think... Well, I mean, I shouldn't say that, but just basically like what you should focus on is going and like building genuine connections with people that you're vibing with. Don't try to fake it or fit in somewhere because you think, I'm supposed to pitch this person. I'm supposed to fundraise at this happy hour. Like, just show up and make friends. Yeah, show up and make friends. So guess, yeah, release your... Leslie Youngblood (46:16) Bye! ⁓ Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah Yeah Kitty & Coco (46:43) again your expectations on that front too because those aren't rooted in reality. Leslie Youngblood (46:45) Yes. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Kitty & Coco (46:48) Don't yourself. Leslie Youngblood (46:49) Yeah. Kitty & Coco (46:52) Like, no, what you should be. So maybe that's another thing because we've done a lot of events and I would say figure out what you want out of each event because it's not always like, you gonna get downloads there? Like, man, what's your return? It's like, well, actually maybe if that's not your goal, like what is your goal? And make friends with people who are trying to achieve the same thing in life and who you like. Leslie Youngblood (46:57) Yeah. Right. Right. Kitty & Coco (47:18) enjoy maybe working with like that's really more the point of things like that. Leslie Youngblood (47:19) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. think that's fantastic advice. And I think something that you two just demonstrate so well is that pivot. Like you said, it's like, we're wellness, we're B2B SaaS. your product is going to change, or your service is going to change no matter what you're doing. And to understand that and know to follow that, to figure it out. what is it like if you, nobody launches it with a perfect product. And so to just get that out there so you can learn. And so don't wait. Kitty & Coco (47:40) you Yes. ⁓ right. Leslie Youngblood (47:54) until you feel like you have it at the ready, like do it before you're ready and get out there and start making those connections. And that's really that simple and that hard, I feel like too at the same time. I love it. So as we wrap up here, ladies, I would love for you to share, where can our listeners connect with you, follow you, download Indora, tell us some of those links and we'll also share them in the show notes too. Yes. Kitty & Coco (47:55) Absolutely. ⁓ that's absolutely good. Thank you. Awesome. Okay, well, guess, Endora.app or EndoraTechnologies.com. Endora.app is our game, EndoraTechnologies.com is our broader kind of parent company. And then on Instagram, same thing. Those are the two main ones. You find us on LinkedIn. You can totally find us on LinkedIn. Leslie Youngblood (48:32) fantastic. The two main ones. And they can learn about the moon mission. They can learn about the moon mission too as well there. Perfect. Kitty & Coco (48:42) Oh yeah, we have some film projects underway and there's a little more information about those there. But again, just really trying to get people reflecting in a positive way, knowing that if we're part of spreading that, only good things can happen. And just understanding the power, the power of it. Leslie Youngblood (48:54) Mm-hmm. You like it? Yes, definitely. love that. Thank you both so much. It was such an incredible conversation. We learned so much today. I can't wait to download Endora and I can't wait to follow along with the moon mission and all the great things that are surely in store for you as you move forward too. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Kitty & Coco (49:05) Thank you! Okay, thank you so much. Thanks for having us.