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Fictional Women Around the World: America Chavez · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to
0:07
Speaker 1: stuff I've never told your production of I Heart Radio,
0:18
Speaker 1: and today we are thrilled to be joined by the amazing,
0:23
Speaker 1: the brilliant Joey. Hello, Joey, I thank you quite well.
0:31
Speaker 1: It's all earned, all earned. We're so thrilled to have
0:36
Speaker 1: you and to talk about this because you have worked
0:39
Speaker 1: on some of our previous episodes as research, and you
0:43
Speaker 1: sent us this message after our Spoiled Saturdays on the
0:48
Speaker 1: new Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness movie came out and
0:51
Speaker 1: You're like, I have some thoughts and I was like, Oh,
0:57
Speaker 1: I haven't met you in person, but I can tell
1:00
Speaker 1: we would get along. Yes, yes, um, But one of
1:05
Speaker 1: those things that you wanted to talk about was the
1:09
Speaker 1: person the character we're focusing on today, America Shavas Um.
1:12
Speaker 1: So I'm so, so so excited to do that. Before
1:15
Speaker 1: we get into that, because this is a very special
1:18
Speaker 1: fictional women around the world, can you introduce yourself to
1:22
Speaker 1: to our audience for sure? Um? Yeah, my name is Joey.
1:27
Speaker 1: I am a producer here at My Heart I work
1:30
Speaker 1: on again. I had a researcher for stuff Mom never
1:33
Speaker 1: told you. I also work with bridget On there are
1:36
Speaker 1: no girls on the internet as an editor there also
1:40
Speaker 1: insiders got to the other side kind of all over
1:43
Speaker 1: the place. Yeah, fun stuff, But I also want a
1:47
Speaker 1: huge comic fan. I'm a huge Marble fans, so definitely
1:50
Speaker 1: was excited to hear about this episode. And ye, yes, yes,
1:56
Speaker 1: Well that's one thing I wanted to ask before we
1:58
Speaker 1: get into them meat of this character is what what
2:04
Speaker 1: was your experience with comic books and with this character specifically. Yeah, So,
2:09
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, I had emailed you when that earlier
2:13
Speaker 1: episode come out. I've been reading comic books since I
2:16
Speaker 1: was a teenager, and America Chavez and this character, this
2:21
Speaker 1: series that she kind of the young Avengers that she
2:23
Speaker 1: she originally really shows up in has a special place
2:27
Speaker 1: in my heart. Um. Personally, I read it when I
2:30
Speaker 1: was sixteen, and it was the at least for me.
2:33
Speaker 1: I think I'd seen other queer characters on screen and
2:37
Speaker 1: in books before, but this was one of the first
2:39
Speaker 1: times it was like really felt like, hey, there was
2:44
Speaker 1: more than one queer character. I feel like this definitely
2:46
Speaker 1: was kind of the like Glee period when there was
2:49
Speaker 1: like the token gay man oftentimes. Um. Yeah, and I
2:55
Speaker 1: just I think this was the first time I really
2:57
Speaker 1: remember seeing characters that I really related too and felt
3:01
Speaker 1: represented by, even in this context of you know, traveling
3:05
Speaker 1: between different universes and stuff like that. But yeah, it
3:09
Speaker 1: was super impactful for me as a teenager. Um again,
3:13
Speaker 1: it was like twenty still wasn't super you know, there
3:18
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of queer characters on the mainstream at
3:20
Speaker 1: that point. So yeah, the series definitely means a lot
3:24
Speaker 1: to me in America. Yeah, and I think that's like
3:29
Speaker 1: the when we talk about I guess here all in here,
3:33
Speaker 1: I'll put my standard Marvel disclaimer. Marvel has been around
3:36
Speaker 1: a long time, which means that there's a lot of
3:40
Speaker 1: like ret cons and different interpretations and just like reboots
3:46
Speaker 1: of the same characters. So it can get very difficult
3:49
Speaker 1: to rankle when you're trying to explain it. Um as
3:53
Speaker 1: I know we're going to to all go through together
3:55
Speaker 1: in this episode. Uh, And it's really fun in some
3:59
Speaker 1: ways because you're somebody who knows a lot about it,
4:01
Speaker 1: you'll just be like, well, obviously when they were like
4:03
Speaker 1: time traveling in this in this alternate to mention and
4:06
Speaker 1: man things to be like, hold up right, yeah, I
4:10
Speaker 1: have to have a lot. I have a lot of questions.
4:13
Speaker 1: I am not good when it comes to timelines and
4:15
Speaker 1: literary things, and like, this doesn't make sense. How do
4:18
Speaker 1: you recon something that this doesn't I don't get it,
4:21
Speaker 1: but I like, well, I'll accept it. Well, that's very
4:25
Speaker 1: gracious of you. Yes, But like, despite all of that
4:30
Speaker 1: that's going on, like monsters and time travel or whatever,
4:32
Speaker 1: at the heart of these I think, when they're at
4:34
Speaker 1: their best, there are these characters that we connect to
4:37
Speaker 1: no matter what. And that's when we talk about the
4:40
Speaker 1: importance of representation. And that's something I thought about a
4:44
Speaker 1: lot too, where I'm so happy to see it, but
4:47
Speaker 1: it also makes me so sad about how happy I
4:49
Speaker 1: am to see it, as if like I'm like a
4:51
Speaker 1: starved like oh my god. Yeah, yeah, I've been experiencing
4:57
Speaker 1: that a lot lately. So these characters are it's so
5:00
Speaker 1: very important, um, and I look forward to hopefully more
5:06
Speaker 1: like them in the future. Yes, but all right, let's
5:11
Speaker 1: get into America. Chaves, can you kind of break this
5:15
Speaker 1: character's history down for us? For sure? So yeah, so good,
5:19
Speaker 1: because this is Marvel. This is the most condensed attempt
5:22
Speaker 1: at making it coherent. They also kind of tell her
5:25
Speaker 1: story backwards, which I think they do with a lot
5:27
Speaker 1: of their characters, so keep that in mind. So America
5:30
Speaker 1: Chavez is Marvel's first queer Latina superhero. Took them till
5:36
Speaker 1: twelve to have a queer Latina superhero. But you know
5:38
Speaker 1: they did have lesbian characters in the past that they
5:41
Speaker 1: have queer characters in the past. They actually had a
5:43
Speaker 1: queer Latino character, so male Latino character, but this was
5:46
Speaker 1: the first queer female Latina character the l a times.
5:51
Speaker 1: But it as her comic book backstory has been reimagined
5:54
Speaker 1: over the years, but America is generally depicted as a
5:57
Speaker 1: sharp witted, confident Latina lesbian whose mother has died in
6:01
Speaker 1: order to save her life. And again, I think that
6:04
Speaker 1: gets a little bit into some of the criticism of multiversevedness,
6:06
Speaker 1: which I could talk about later. That's yes, yeah, but
6:11
Speaker 1: I would have never found that as her character because
6:14
Speaker 1: I do not read comic books, and all I got
6:16
Speaker 1: was from the movie. So wow, Okay, that's a complete
6:19
Speaker 1: different condiction. Yeah. She's the second superhero to use the
6:26
Speaker 1: name Miss America, the first one being a character called
6:29
Speaker 1: named Madeline Joyce, who is from the nineteen forties Timely Comics,
6:33
Speaker 1: which would later become Marvel Comics. She was one of
6:35
Speaker 1: the original like Captain America characters that showed up. I
6:40
Speaker 1: don't know it's talking about her character. I don't think
6:42
Speaker 1: there's really anything in common with this Miss America America's
6:45
Speaker 1: shop is. But America's superpowers include superhuman strength, superhuman speed,
6:52
Speaker 1: and interdimensional travel by kicking star shaped holes between dimensions.
6:57
Speaker 1: And she has these star tattoos on her arm that
7:00
Speaker 1: match the kind of portals that she makes a big
7:04
Speaker 1: glow when she did. It looks really cool. In the comics.
7:06
Speaker 1: I wish they had stuck to that a bit more
7:08
Speaker 1: of the movie. But yeah, the other two strengths in
7:13
Speaker 1: the like a man, I know, I'll only know the movie,
7:16
Speaker 1: but they didn't show a super strength or speeds. I
7:19
Speaker 1: somewhat confused, but oh wow, Okay, yeah, I'll get so
7:23
Speaker 1: that her origins were reckoned recently. I'll get to that
7:30
Speaker 1: a bit later. I'm gonna stick with this origin story
7:33
Speaker 1: because this is what they showed in the movie too,
7:34
Speaker 1: So I think Marvel's going to stick with the original story.
7:37
Speaker 1: We'll see, but America's job is is originally from an
7:40
Speaker 1: alternate universe called the Utopian Parallel, which is supposed to
7:44
Speaker 1: be this kind of perfect universe within the multiverse. It
7:48
Speaker 1: is a matriarchal society. It might be all women. I'm
7:52
Speaker 1: a little confused about that, but all of the characters
7:54
Speaker 1: shown our women, which is kind of cool. She has
7:56
Speaker 1: two moms, so she's a second generation queer women. I
8:00
Speaker 1: think that's cool. And her mom's have similar powers, although
8:05
Speaker 1: it's not really clear if they can do the multidimensional
8:07
Speaker 1: travel too, but they definitely like they have super strength
8:11
Speaker 1: their superheroes within their universe. One America is a child.
8:15
Speaker 1: Her universe is attacked by a mysterious force from another dimension,
8:21
Speaker 1: and her mom's end up sacrificing their lives to save
8:24
Speaker 1: their daughter and save their dimension from these creatures. America's grief, however,
8:31
Speaker 1: drives her to create a portal to another dimension, which
8:35
Speaker 1: she jumps through. She ends up in Earth six one six,
8:38
Speaker 1: which is Marvel's main kind of universe, and then spends
8:42
Speaker 1: the majority of her childhood and adolescence sort of jumping
8:45
Speaker 1: around through different uh dimensions. Also, she is apparently the
8:51
Speaker 1: only version of herself across the multiverse, which isn't common
8:54
Speaker 1: because again, like a lot of Marvel's other characters. There's
8:58
Speaker 1: different versions again, you saw like in Doctor Strength, there's
9:00
Speaker 1: all the different Doctor Strange is. I think that was
9:04
Speaker 1: also in the movie, like she was the only version
9:05
Speaker 1: of herself. So that's something that makes her unique. Yeah yeah, yeah,
9:11
Speaker 1: I mean having to universe is I think would be
9:14
Speaker 1: cool but also very confusing. But for sure. And then
9:33
Speaker 1: this character, it was verily recently introduced, right, yeah. She
9:39
Speaker 1: So she was originally introduced in a series called Vengeance,
9:42
Speaker 1: which came out in two that US on eleven by
9:44
Speaker 1: show Casey and illustrated by Nikatu Goda. She didn't make
9:48
Speaker 1: a huge appearance in this series, so I'm kind of
9:49
Speaker 1: going to skip over it a little bit. But she
9:51
Speaker 1: is introduced as a member of the Teen Brigade, which
9:54
Speaker 1: is this kind of vigilante group of teenage superpowered people
9:58
Speaker 1: who are trying to of free other superpower teams from
10:02
Speaker 1: government facilities, which I think is a theme that Marble
10:07
Speaker 1: does a bit. Yeah. Again, she doesn't make a huge
10:10
Speaker 1: appearance in this series, but she does. The important thing
10:14
Speaker 1: is at the end of the series, she leaves the
10:16
Speaker 1: team under mysterious circumstances. She gets in some argument with
10:20
Speaker 1: them and leaves. You'll find out why later. But her
10:24
Speaker 1: current kind of personality more comes from the Young Offenders
10:29
Speaker 1: run which was written by Karen Gillan and Jamie mckelby,
10:33
Speaker 1: which was a series I talked about earlier. This was
10:35
Speaker 1: one of the first things I read with like really
10:38
Speaker 1: well rounded and kind of fleshed out queer characters. So yeah,
10:43
Speaker 1: I love this curiosity. Are these comics still around, Like
10:48
Speaker 1: have they expanded? I know they're coming to the phase
10:51
Speaker 1: of filming the Bishop released and all of that. Yeah,
10:56
Speaker 1: Young Offenders is interesting because they did. There's two different
11:00
Speaker 1: Young Avenger series. There's one that started in two thousand
11:02
Speaker 1: and five and then ended, and then it was picked
11:04
Speaker 1: up again in two thousand twelve, and then that arc
11:08
Speaker 1: ended I think I was about a year, and then
11:12
Speaker 1: all of the characters are kind of made appearances in
11:14
Speaker 1: their own like k Fish again, it's like a major character.
11:18
Speaker 1: I really should know this, but I I'm not totally sure.
11:20
Speaker 1: I remember hearing that they brought Young Avengers back. I'm
11:23
Speaker 1: not totally sure if that's true. A couple of the
11:25
Speaker 1: members became a like Avengers Adventures, So I don't know.
11:29
Speaker 1: I don't know what they're doing with that, But they're
11:31
Speaker 1: definitely yeah, they're they're they're making their appearances in the
11:34
Speaker 1: movies too, So I don't know, there's been a lot
11:37
Speaker 1: of speculation that this is where them's us going. Yeah,
11:41
Speaker 1: I mean they get like we talked about it. When
11:43
Speaker 1: did we talk about We talked about like there's like
11:45
Speaker 1: five things that they're kind of setting up, and I
11:47
Speaker 1: think they're testing because they're like, which one should we
11:49
Speaker 1: go with? Um? But they are certainly introducing a lot
11:53
Speaker 1: of the Young Adventurers characters, and a lot of those
11:56
Speaker 1: characters really resonated with people, and these comics did did
12:02
Speaker 1: resonate with people. So can you kind of break down
12:05
Speaker 1: America shavs in the Young Avengers for sure? Yeah, So
12:10
Speaker 1: just a preface, Young Avengers originally was created in two
12:14
Speaker 1: thousand five. That's where you get characters like k Bishop, Wanda,
12:17
Speaker 1: Maximov's sons Billy and Tommy who go by Waken and
12:21
Speaker 1: Speed and Cassie Lane, Eli Bradley he's in Falcon and
12:25
Speaker 1: the Winter Soldier he comes to Patriot. All these characters introduced.
12:28
Speaker 1: Then this series ends with the team kind of going
12:34
Speaker 1: through a couple of traumatic events. They decided to part ways.
12:37
Speaker 1: This is where Kate kind of goes off and does
12:39
Speaker 1: her Hawkeye ron with Clint and Yeah, so this is
12:43
Speaker 1: where the two thousand twelve Young Avengers starts in America's
12:48
Speaker 1: shop as his first introduced. So the story begins when
12:52
Speaker 1: America is approached by Kid Loki, who also again is
12:57
Speaker 1: makes a number of appearances and Young Avengers, and Loki
13:02
Speaker 1: tries to persuade her to kill Billy Kaplan Wanda Maximov's
13:06
Speaker 1: son Um who goes by wickan Ah. He has similar
13:10
Speaker 1: powers to Wanda, including reality bending, and again at this
13:15
Speaker 1: point in the series, he's dealing with some traumatic events
13:19
Speaker 1: and some depressions. So Loki frames it as Billy has
13:25
Speaker 1: the potential to cause some kind of destruction in the
13:30
Speaker 1: multi verse, similar to kind of what happens with Wanda
13:34
Speaker 1: and multiverse madness, and so his solution is we should
13:38
Speaker 1: just kill him now so that that will never have him.
13:41
Speaker 1: America is appalled by this proposition, and she goes to
13:47
Speaker 1: Earth six and six, which is where Billy lives, which
13:50
Speaker 1: is where you know most of the events take place
13:51
Speaker 1: again to protect Wicken. She makes the point of telling
13:55
Speaker 1: Loki that she hates going to Earth six and six,
13:57
Speaker 1: so she definitely is serious. Spot um and then you
14:02
Speaker 1: find out because it's low key, this was his plan
14:05
Speaker 1: all along. He is a trickster, so he wanted her.
14:07
Speaker 1: He knew that if he outright asked her to go
14:09
Speaker 1: protect Wickens, she wouldn't do it. But yes, this is
14:12
Speaker 1: what leads her to join the Young Avengers. Wicken tries
14:15
Speaker 1: to perform a spell that goes wrong and he brings
14:18
Speaker 1: this sort of multidimensional parasite into the universe. Sounds about right, Yeah,
14:25
Speaker 1: as one does, America saves him and his boyfriend Teddy Altman,
14:33
Speaker 1: who I think also might be making an MC appearance
14:36
Speaker 1: shoot soon. I don't know. I heard like rumors that
14:39
Speaker 1: he might be in one of the Captain Marvel movies.
14:41
Speaker 1: We'll see what does he come from? One of the
14:44
Speaker 1: Hulks And I'm so confused now he has nothing to
14:47
Speaker 1: do with the Hulks. Yeah, I love it. This is
14:53
Speaker 1: I feel like kind of I would never do this,
14:54
Speaker 1: but I kind of want to feed you like the
14:56
Speaker 1: most ridiculous information and see how far I can take
14:58
Speaker 1: it happening. What thing to do with the Hulks? He don't.
15:07
Speaker 1: I'm just skipping over some of the like weirder characters
15:09
Speaker 1: and Young Avengers. It goes all over the place, like
15:13
Speaker 1: he has nothing to do with the Hulk, right, of course,
15:16
Speaker 1: Davors Dug Avengers, That's what I was saying. Okay, um,
15:19
Speaker 1: he's related to Captain Marvel. That got complicated too, So
15:26
Speaker 1: they come together. America saved them, Yeah, they're together. America
15:29
Speaker 1: saves them. America joins the team, and they reunite with
15:33
Speaker 1: a couple of other members the Young Avengers, including Kate Bishop,
15:36
Speaker 1: and they travel around the most who are just trying
15:39
Speaker 1: to fix this spell. And at this point, for the
15:43
Speaker 1: majority of the series, you don't learn a lot about
15:45
Speaker 1: America's backstory. She's definitely kind of the like really historic
15:49
Speaker 1: like punch first, ask questions later, kind of badass with
15:54
Speaker 1: the mysterious past kind of thing. And there's a couple
15:58
Speaker 1: of times where like the other characters try to get
16:00
Speaker 1: her to like explain why she's there and why she's
16:02
Speaker 1: like protecting them, and she's like, no, I'm not going
16:04
Speaker 1: to tell you anything. And then towards the end of
16:06
Speaker 1: the series, it's revealed that they end up in another
16:09
Speaker 1: dimension where basically Billy Wickan finds out he's at one
16:16
Speaker 1: point again, he's a reality vender. He at one point
16:19
Speaker 1: is going to become this thing called I'm gonna say
16:22
Speaker 1: this wrong. I don't know how to pronounce this, the Demiurge,
16:25
Speaker 1: the Doomers. It's some like weird word, but it's some
16:28
Speaker 1: like he's going to become this like space demigod as
16:31
Speaker 1: one does, and he actually is going to be the
16:34
Speaker 1: character who creates the utopian parallel where America is from
16:39
Speaker 1: so America. When she was a kid, she really looked
16:43
Speaker 1: up to Wickan. She saw him as this hero that
16:45
Speaker 1: she really wanted to emulate. There's a cute little scene
16:47
Speaker 1: of her like as a kid dressed up like him.
16:50
Speaker 1: It kind of parallels how like Kate looked up to
16:53
Speaker 1: Hawkeye and then wanted to be him like him, and
16:55
Speaker 1: Billy really looks up to the Scarlet Witch. And then
16:57
Speaker 1: she also kind of when she gets her bit at
17:00
Speaker 1: the end where she talks about herself, finally she talks
17:02
Speaker 1: about how like, there's this you know, guy that I
17:04
Speaker 1: had looked up to my entire life, and now I'm
17:06
Speaker 1: realizing he's just as much of a mess as I
17:08
Speaker 1: am as a teenager um, which is cute. There's yeah,
17:12
Speaker 1: it's there's time travel in this there's not. There's not. Um,
17:26
Speaker 1: it's Marvel and they don't explain it. And that's the
17:30
Speaker 1: only explanation I have. Again, I guess, I guess. I
17:36
Speaker 1: don't know. It's another invention. It's another universe that's supposed
17:39
Speaker 1: to be the explanation. I don't know. But it affects
17:42
Speaker 1: for you, all right, keep going and keep going. Yes,
17:48
Speaker 1: So last a little bit about younger bachelors at the end.
17:50
Speaker 1: And also America comes out as a lesbian for the
17:53
Speaker 1: first time at the end of the series. Um. Remember
17:56
Speaker 1: I said she was part of this the team brigade.
17:58
Speaker 1: Another one of her team beers who calls himself Ultimate Nolah,
18:02
Speaker 1: for which I don't know why. I feel like that's
18:05
Speaker 1: that's all you need to know about him. He shows up,
18:08
Speaker 1: he's mad at her because they had a brief, like
18:11
Speaker 1: they had kissed and he was like in love with
18:13
Speaker 1: her and then she ran off and he's mad about that.
18:17
Speaker 1: She's like, dude, I'm not interested. I'm a lesbian. So
18:21
Speaker 1: that was cool. I again, going back to one of
18:24
Speaker 1: the things I love about Young Avengers is of the
18:27
Speaker 1: main set of characters, all but one of them are queer,
18:31
Speaker 1: which I think is super cool. I hadn't seen this.
18:34
Speaker 1: I thought this was made in two thousand twelve, which again,
18:36
Speaker 1: like I feel like again, I think the only other
18:39
Speaker 1: thing I saw with the queer characters at the time
18:41
Speaker 1: was Glee, So it's definitely yeah, Kate Bishop is the
18:45
Speaker 1: only one who straight, although personally I think America and
18:48
Speaker 1: Kate should be a couple. Um, that's just my opinion.
18:55
Speaker 1: What would be your ship name? There? So I can't
19:00
Speaker 1: believe I'm beenidding this publicly, but the one time I've
19:03
Speaker 1: actually written and published fan fiction on OH three has
19:07
Speaker 1: been America fan fiction, which is America's Javis and there
19:12
Speaker 1: is amazing it is I am. I know Leddy's going
19:19
Speaker 1: to go look at it, right. I love fan fiction.
19:23
Speaker 1: If you can find it, let me know because I've
19:25
Speaker 1: lost track of it. Oh my gosh, this is my
19:29
Speaker 1: perfect assignment. I love it. Everybody even better. I'm waiting
19:42
Speaker 1: for that ship to make a comeback. We'll see. Yeah,
19:46
Speaker 1: I think we can make this happen. I think we
19:49
Speaker 1: could make this happen here go. I love it. Um.
19:55
Speaker 1: But yeah, as you said, this was it was a
19:58
Speaker 1: big deal like that this there were these queer characters
20:02
Speaker 1: and queer representation in this comic, even if it was
20:06
Speaker 1: as recent twelve although I will say I started reading comics.
20:10
Speaker 1: I read comics when I was a kid up until
20:12
Speaker 1: my teenage years, and then I dropped off and I
20:13
Speaker 1: started reading them again during the pandemic, and I read
20:15
Speaker 1: one that at a queer character where they was like
20:17
Speaker 1: very they were very openly queer, and I was still shocked.
20:20
Speaker 1: So it's still like whoa, Um, But at the time, um,
20:25
Speaker 1: it was well received, right, yes, yeah it actually I
20:29
Speaker 1: mean within the queer community. One Glad Media Award, which
20:33
Speaker 1: is kind of cool. I think the original I think
20:34
Speaker 1: the two thousand five series also won the same award
20:37
Speaker 1: because they introduced Wicked and Hulk Clan you are a couple,
20:41
Speaker 1: But yeah, it had fairly good reception. America's character also
20:46
Speaker 1: seemed to get fairly positive reception, which I at you
20:48
Speaker 1: guys have talked about isn't super common with newer female characters. Unfortunately,
20:55
Speaker 1: she made a couple of appearances following this in Marble
21:00
Speaker 1: A Force, which was in all women interdimensional superhero team.
21:06
Speaker 1: It was a brief series lean in two thousand sixteen.
21:08
Speaker 1: I don't know how much they kept up with that,
21:10
Speaker 1: but it was cute, it was fun. She also makes
21:13
Speaker 1: an appearance in The Ultimates, which was a team started
21:17
Speaker 1: by Captain Marvel to address and solve extra terrestrial and
21:21
Speaker 1: extra dimensional threats before they reach Earth, and she works
21:28
Speaker 1: alongside like Black Panther and Monica Rambo, who shows up
21:32
Speaker 1: in one division in that series. And then she also
21:36
Speaker 1: joins the West Coast Adventures with Kate Bishop. So yeah,
21:41
Speaker 1: she she definitely, you know, Marvel I think realized that
21:45
Speaker 1: she was a character that that had potential and that
21:48
Speaker 1: people liked. And yeah, and then she did get her
21:52
Speaker 1: own solo series following this too, in it was written
21:59
Speaker 1: by why A author Gabby Rivera, who was again going
22:04
Speaker 1: back to the Lake. She was Marvel's first Latina writer,
22:08
Speaker 1: which is great. It also took them to hire a
22:11
Speaker 1: Latina writer, so yeah. Yeah. Also it's interesting to point
22:19
Speaker 1: out around this time the comic skate kind of thing happened, which,
22:23
Speaker 1: if you know about like amor Gate, it was similar.
22:26
Speaker 1: Rivera was targeted by this. The series was still published
22:30
Speaker 1: and did fairly well, so you know, I guess it
22:33
Speaker 1: wasn't a very successful campaign, but whatever, right, I think
22:37
Speaker 1: I saw a TikTok of her because I I'm cool
22:41
Speaker 1: and hip, I know TikTok. But there was TikTok of
22:47
Speaker 1: her answering questions a little bit about Chavez and the character.
22:51
Speaker 1: And of course we have all of the gate keeper
22:54
Speaker 1: keeping bros who were like, oh, the character was da
22:57
Speaker 1: da dada as you came men in defense and was
23:00
Speaker 1: like hello, and had one of those moments of them
23:02
Speaker 1: accusing her of not knowing the character and her being
23:06
Speaker 1: like pulling up the book going I wrote the book
23:08
Speaker 1: like having that moment as well. So it's always fun
23:12
Speaker 1: to see those embarrassing moments for them, uh and meaning
23:17
Speaker 1: the trolls, and I love to see it. But I
23:19
Speaker 1: did see that recently. But yeah, it's really sad that
23:22
Speaker 1: it took seventeen to a have a Latina writer writing
23:27
Speaker 1: about a Latina character that's been around. But at least
23:31
Speaker 1: they did it for the solo stuff. So what is
23:34
Speaker 1: involved in the solo ventures of hers? Yeah, so there's
23:37
Speaker 1: been two. So there's the series and then there was
23:39
Speaker 1: another solo series following out. They they're kind of connected,
23:42
Speaker 1: so I'll talk about both. But Rivera's series follows America
23:46
Speaker 1: as she attends so to my our university, which is
23:49
Speaker 1: our fictional university named after the Court justice. It's yes,
23:55
Speaker 1: it's fun. It's kind of half coming of age story,
23:58
Speaker 1: half multiverse adventure. So it is following America attending classes,
24:04
Speaker 1: learning to be you know, a better superhero and then
24:07
Speaker 1: also you know, traveling around the multiverse. I found this
24:13
Speaker 1: quote from Rivera that she gave him an NPR interview.
24:16
Speaker 1: Definitely recommend listening to this. It was it was really
24:19
Speaker 1: interesting kind of talking about the character that she said
24:22
Speaker 1: about America. I want her to be goofy and relatable,
24:25
Speaker 1: like every Latina character for the most part, with the
24:28
Speaker 1: exception of Jane the Virgin and Ugly Betty. Are these tough,
24:31
Speaker 1: no nonsense. All I do is equal is for breakfast.
24:34
Speaker 1: And we can have those stories. Yes, we can have
24:36
Speaker 1: all the Rose adiaz is, and like, let's also have
24:39
Speaker 1: a Rose Adiaz and let's have her beat goofy and
24:41
Speaker 1: have a moment where maybe she cries, which I think again,
24:45
Speaker 1: as much as I love Young Avendor, is my love
24:46
Speaker 1: America's character and Young Avengers. I do remember when I
24:50
Speaker 1: was reading it around when it came out, there was
24:53
Speaker 1: some criticism of it, like America sort of falling into
24:56
Speaker 1: the like angry Latina trope or like angry lesbi in trope,
25:01
Speaker 1: both of those kind of intersects. So one of the
25:04
Speaker 1: angles that Rivera wanted to take with this was to
25:06
Speaker 1: give her yeah, like make her you know, let her
25:10
Speaker 1: have fun and let her she goes through some relationship drama,
25:14
Speaker 1: she goes through some you know, all the things you
25:17
Speaker 1: deal with as a twenty something starting college, and um, yeah,
25:25
Speaker 1: and she's still you know, super tough and badass, and yeah,
25:30
Speaker 1: it's fun. It's a cute series. She also wanted to
25:34
Speaker 1: die more into America's backstory and particularly her Latin X identity.
25:39
Speaker 1: America is from another dimension, so it's interesting how they
25:42
Speaker 1: kind of they pull a lot of like the sci
25:44
Speaker 1: fi elements and also like the Latin X diaspora. One
25:48
Speaker 1: of the quotes from the series that I think sums
25:50
Speaker 1: it up pretty well is from America. America says this,
25:53
Speaker 1: after my mom's died, I left the utopian parallel. I
25:56
Speaker 1: found spaces on Earth where little brown girls blunted into
25:58
Speaker 1: the scenery and be a part of the family. Still,
26:01
Speaker 1: I was a tourist everywhere, lifting language and culture from
26:04
Speaker 1: the love of people who weren't my kin but held
26:06
Speaker 1: me as their own. So this kind of storyline has
26:10
Speaker 1: continued in her next solo series, which is called America.
26:12
Speaker 1: Shop is made in the USA. It's from and it
26:16
Speaker 1: was written by Kalinda vas Kiss, And this is we
26:20
Speaker 1: learned a little bit more about what happened to America
26:22
Speaker 1: after she left the Utopian parallel. So the first place
26:25
Speaker 1: she ends up is Earth six one six, where she
26:29
Speaker 1: she lands in New York City and she is adopted
26:32
Speaker 1: by the Santana family in New York City, where Puerto
26:36
Speaker 1: Rican family in New York City, and she's kind of
26:40
Speaker 1: raised by them. But then when she's a teenager, she
26:44
Speaker 1: leaves home after an argument with her adoptive parents. She
26:47
Speaker 1: wants to go out and keep being a vigilante and
26:50
Speaker 1: using her powers, and they want her to keep it
26:52
Speaker 1: a secret and kind of stay safe, trying to be
26:56
Speaker 1: a normal teenager. So she leaves home. She ends up
26:59
Speaker 1: kind of jumping around through again. This is what starts
27:03
Speaker 1: her like jumping around through the multiverse and all these
27:05
Speaker 1: different communities. This is also where we get the Red Coon,
27:09
Speaker 1: which I'll go into really quick because again this is
27:12
Speaker 1: the most recent federation of her character. In this series
27:16
Speaker 1: The America made in the USA, America finds out that
27:19
Speaker 1: she has a sister named Catalina, and she tells America
27:23
Speaker 1: that her mom's were not actually from another dimension, they
27:27
Speaker 1: were actually human scientists from Earth six one six. The
27:31
Speaker 1: Utopian Parallel wasn't an alternate universe, but it was a
27:34
Speaker 1: private island owned by a billionaire named Dr Gails, and
27:38
Speaker 1: America's moms were scientists who were working to procure to
27:42
Speaker 1: a disease called Edge syndrome, which their daughter America had,
27:46
Speaker 1: So they were kind of bribed into like, come work
27:49
Speaker 1: for us and will help you cure your daughter. And
27:52
Speaker 1: then of course, you know, the billionaires up being evil
27:56
Speaker 1: and tries to keep them trapped there, and America's moms
28:00
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that, so they you know,
28:05
Speaker 1: they end up getting killed by Dr Gals and America escapes,
28:09
Speaker 1: Catalina's stuck on the island. Still this again, this was
28:13
Speaker 1: the Marvel retcons a lot of stuff, and um, I
28:17
Speaker 1: don't really know if they're going to stick with us,
28:19
Speaker 1: because this also kind of busses up the whole like
28:23
Speaker 1: is wiccan going to become this like DEMI good figure thing?
28:28
Speaker 1: And then they also use the original story in the movies,
28:30
Speaker 1: so we'll see. But as of right now, yeah, she
28:33
Speaker 1: is from Earth six one sex again yeah yeah, yeah, well,
28:41
Speaker 1: and and that's also what we're about to talk about.
28:44
Speaker 1: That's one of the things that confuses me as a
28:48
Speaker 1: comic book reader is they do it's hard to keep track,
28:52
Speaker 1: and so when they're doing the movies or the shows,
28:55
Speaker 1: they pick and choose a lot of stuff that they
28:58
Speaker 1: like which isn't necessarily like even connected in the same
29:03
Speaker 1: canon before, Like they pick a part of this story
29:06
Speaker 1: and a part of this story and put up this story.
29:07
Speaker 1: So I get so confused. Oh yeah, it's I think
29:12
Speaker 1: it's interesting too, because I think they're trying to there's
29:16
Speaker 1: been Okay, one thing I remember they did recently is
29:19
Speaker 1: they wat the Maximov storylines, so they're as of now
29:24
Speaker 1: not actually related to Magneto, which I think they did
29:26
Speaker 1: because they wanted it to match up with the movie.
29:29
Speaker 1: But then that takes back like fifty years of comic books.
29:33
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know. Again, Like who's to say
29:36
Speaker 1: we're they're going with this? Oh yeah, because the runner dude,
29:41
Speaker 1: the brother is the son of Oh my god, there's
29:43
Speaker 1: so many things happening. Why is this happening? I'm like, what,
29:51
Speaker 1: because right, that's that's the thing is like he as
29:54
Speaker 1: the Runner kid, I can out of name um about yeah,
30:00
Speaker 1: you know what I'm doing and it doesn't have a twin.
30:03
Speaker 1: So that was all levels of confusion. And then we
30:06
Speaker 1: have that and the Avengers and another the Coming Together.
30:08
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, Parallel Universiti explains everything, but it obviously doesn't.
30:26
Speaker 1: I love the angry text I'll get from Samantha, Like
30:30
Speaker 1: when One Division was coming out, I felt personally attached.
30:33
Speaker 1: I'd get a text from her that's like, this doesn't
30:35
Speaker 1: make any sense. It's him or is it not him?
30:38
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm not I'm not in control
30:42
Speaker 1: of the content. Why didn't they do this? And why
30:45
Speaker 1: are they still doing this? Tell you what I know,
30:49
Speaker 1: but I can't tell you what they're doing. And then
30:52
Speaker 1: when you tell me, it makes me more bad because
30:54
Speaker 1: like that makes no sense. What is happening? Also because
30:58
Speaker 1: in the movie now twins are there's no twins in
31:01
Speaker 1: the six six They're gone, they don't exist, So how okay,
31:05
Speaker 1: keep going whatever? I okay. My approach to reading comics,
31:08
Speaker 1: which I'm sure people are going to disagree with this.
31:11
Speaker 1: I at this point just like looking at the same
31:15
Speaker 1: way I do as reading like fan fiction, where I'm like,
31:17
Speaker 1: if I don't agree with something, I'm sure there's gonna
31:19
Speaker 1: be another series where they're gonna like completely erase that
31:22
Speaker 1: and turn it around and write the character totally different.
31:25
Speaker 1: So I don't get a pay attention to this decision. Yes,
31:31
Speaker 1: I do that too. My head cannon is excellent, and
31:34
Speaker 1: I also Samantha knows I've had this rant. I am
31:37
Speaker 1: of the firm belief that at this point any franchise
31:40
Speaker 1: is fan fiction. It's people who that were fans and
31:44
Speaker 1: are writing what they want to write. I guess what
31:46
Speaker 1: I could do that too, So out of curiosity because
31:52
Speaker 1: we know in the DC world YouTube they have had
31:57
Speaker 1: long stating series like super Man and Batman come through
32:02
Speaker 1: with so many variations. Because we had the series from
32:05
Speaker 1: White back Wind. Even with Catwoman, I don't see that
32:08
Speaker 1: much with Marvel. Did I miss that whole before? Like
32:12
Speaker 1: the beginning of Iron Man. That's the the first one,
32:16
Speaker 1: right um that was originally out? Was there another series?
32:20
Speaker 1: Was there are the other set of movies that I
32:21
Speaker 1: missed that had these characters out there? They did Agents
32:26
Speaker 1: of Shield. I think that's that was after Oh that's true. Yeah, okay,
32:31
Speaker 1: I don't know about before. I have a fun rabbit
32:34
Speaker 1: hole for you. See, this is what happens. There's a
32:37
Speaker 1: four movie you can find from the eighties. I forgot
32:43
Speaker 1: about the Spider Man content um which Spider Man is
32:47
Speaker 1: very interesting in ownership who owns it? But Spider Man
32:51
Speaker 1: has been around quite a bit before that. But yeah,
32:55
Speaker 1: not nuts, not to the same extent. And that's actually
32:58
Speaker 1: a really fascinating story that is for not this podcast.
33:01
Speaker 1: But it's kind of about like bankruptcy and stuff anyway, okay,
33:07
Speaker 1: because that's what I was trying to figure out when
33:08
Speaker 1: I was thinking about d C. Batman has been around
33:11
Speaker 1: since like the original series was what nineteen seventies, sixties
33:17
Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, yeah, so, and then they've had variation
33:20
Speaker 1: upon variation to the point that we're used to d
33:22
Speaker 1: C doing these things to their characters and outside of
33:25
Speaker 1: your right, Spider Man, I haven't really seen that happen,
33:28
Speaker 1: and they're trying to interweave there was the whole whole
33:34
Speaker 1: they just completely like that make side show Fantastic four,
33:41
Speaker 1: there was a show. You're right. I think they maybe
33:46
Speaker 1: that's the one. Okay, zany as much m okay, I can't.
33:55
Speaker 1: I can't remember if it was a movie or a
33:58
Speaker 1: TV series, but I did have to watch a little
34:01
Speaker 1: bit of There was like a Captain America series that
34:03
Speaker 1: was it's really funny. It was from like the seventies
34:07
Speaker 1: that it's okay, it's terrible, but it's it's like it's
34:13
Speaker 1: just terrible. I mean, I just really find it interesting
34:17
Speaker 1: as why our DC just like we're just gonna start over,
34:20
Speaker 1: scrap it to start over. Marvel has been like, well,
34:23
Speaker 1: at least somehow incorporate with a side joke about it,
34:26
Speaker 1: I guess, including like bringing back the Fantastic Four people.
34:31
Speaker 1: Oh look, we're brought in this random character to be
34:33
Speaker 1: a part of this because we're gonna talk about it soon.
34:35
Speaker 1: Don't worry about it, as well as bringing an X
34:38
Speaker 1: Men to Marvel there like, oh see, we're gonna but
34:42
Speaker 1: like they can't just erase it. So therefore by the
34:45
Speaker 1: red gun stuff, I guess I'm very confused all of
34:49
Speaker 1: these things. Yeah, what is the future of these shows,
34:52
Speaker 1: specifically America? So, at least in the comics, the next
34:56
Speaker 1: thing Marvel had set for America is She's gonna make
34:59
Speaker 1: an appearance in their Voices series, which is has already started.
35:05
Speaker 1: They actually did a Young Avengers story with an it's
35:09
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be like covering marginalized voices. In particular,
35:12
Speaker 1: they did one about a couple of I was actually
35:15
Speaker 1: about Tommy Shepard, who's Wanda's other son. He has superspeed
35:20
Speaker 1: like Quicksilver. He's also bisexual, and his boyfriend is also
35:24
Speaker 1: a Young Avenger. They did a mini comic about them
35:28
Speaker 1: for this series that was super cute. Would recommend it.
35:32
Speaker 1: But yeah, America is set to make an appearance in
35:34
Speaker 1: the series alongside Loki uh who again she has a
35:39
Speaker 1: long time sort of rivalry slash tentative allyship with a
35:46
Speaker 1: Young Avengers. So I'm definitely interested to see where they
35:49
Speaker 1: go with that. I would love to see America and
35:52
Speaker 1: Loki interact in the MCU. We'll see what happens with that. Yes, yeah,
35:59
Speaker 1: there's kid Loki die in the let Loki series. I
36:06
Speaker 1: don't think so comics because that's another story too. When
36:13
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the actual series, because I know Lokey
36:16
Speaker 1: supposed to come back. I just didn't know if there
36:20
Speaker 1: was an open stance to have Kid Loki being a
36:22
Speaker 1: bigger part as like an opening for that. But did
36:26
Speaker 1: kid Loki die? I don't think he does. I think
36:29
Speaker 1: he's still I don't think he died, but they didn't.
36:32
Speaker 1: They kind of like jettison all of those characters stories.
36:35
Speaker 1: They were like, well, we don't know what happened to them. Okay, later,
36:43
Speaker 1: just check it, because that's one of the few that
36:45
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, I know where he came from in
36:47
Speaker 1: the in the TV series, which is a complete, I know,
36:49
Speaker 1: different conversation, but I'm like, he exists, exists, Bishop exists. Yeah,
36:57
Speaker 1: I know that the young aunt All will be, but
37:02
Speaker 1: there's like, that's just I just read about her, and
37:05
Speaker 1: of course she exists, but not as a superhero quite yet. Yeah.
37:10
Speaker 1: I definitely think kind of what you're saying before about
37:12
Speaker 1: like they're I think they're testing a bunch of things now,
37:15
Speaker 1: and I think they know this has been one of
37:19
Speaker 1: my issues with Obviously it's great the Marvel at least
37:22
Speaker 1: is taking some steps forward and including queer characters. I
37:27
Speaker 1: don't think they're really committing to like, like, yes, they
37:31
Speaker 1: introduced Billy and Tommy as children, and then they introduced
37:36
Speaker 1: America and they she wears like a rainbow pin in
37:40
Speaker 1: the in the in the movie, which I was surprised.
37:42
Speaker 1: I was pleasantly surprised that they like even mentioned or
37:45
Speaker 1: like made a reference to the fact that she's not straight,
37:48
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, they're not bringing up the fact that
37:50
Speaker 1: she's a lesbian. Surely she has two moms, but yeah,
37:53
Speaker 1: they're not talking about that at all, So we'll see.
37:56
Speaker 1: I think they're like kind of bringing out these character
38:00
Speaker 1: because I know, like it'll make people start talking about like, oh, yeah,
38:04
Speaker 1: we're including more queer stories, but then they're not actually
38:08
Speaker 1: putting in the queer story part of it right right,
38:14
Speaker 1: It does seem like they're mentioning things just to get
38:17
Speaker 1: credit for it, kind of like how uh, in the
38:20
Speaker 1: Last Avengers they had the all women team up and
38:23
Speaker 1: it is a part of the story and that they
38:25
Speaker 1: do exist in the comics, and I did see people
38:27
Speaker 1: like tweet to write about it, but the way they
38:29
Speaker 1: did it was so hokey that it seemed out of place,
38:32
Speaker 1: even though it can be references and this is uh,
38:35
Speaker 1: you know, canon. However, they did it in such a
38:38
Speaker 1: bad taste and so overly like paraded that it became
38:43
Speaker 1: almost token toyes to be like, se we like women
38:45
Speaker 1: here you go type of the thing, and it seems
38:48
Speaker 1: like that's what they do with all of those levels
38:50
Speaker 1: of like you have these opportunities to do this, but
38:53
Speaker 1: you're not executing it very well. And I'm trying to
38:55
Speaker 1: figure out if it's because you refused to have those
38:58
Speaker 1: people who at connect with that, whether it's queer people,
39:01
Speaker 1: women in the riding room, so therefore it just becomes
39:04
Speaker 1: hokey and sure, yeah, completely glazed over or cut completely out. Yeah, Okay,
39:15
Speaker 1: I saw have been seeing the New Thorn movie. I
39:17
Speaker 1: know I need to do that, but I that that's
39:20
Speaker 1: another one. I've heard like mixed things about how they handle,
39:23
Speaker 1: Like I haven't seen it yet, so I'm not gonna
39:27
Speaker 1: say anything, but I know they have not they haven't
39:31
Speaker 1: a weird track record. Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing.
39:35
Speaker 1: It's like, Um, I know we talked about it in
39:37
Speaker 1: our Spoiled Saturday's episode on Multiversamandness, but I'd love like
39:41
Speaker 1: your quick opinion on it because listening to you go
39:46
Speaker 1: into detail of this character, it's like, like Samantha said,
39:50
Speaker 1: it feels so kind of watered down and she was
39:53
Speaker 1: such a like as I feel often is the case
39:58
Speaker 1: with women in the in the m CU, is there
40:01
Speaker 1: the secondary character and very expendable. I guess yeah, but
40:08
Speaker 1: they're kind of just propping up like these male characters
40:13
Speaker 1: that have been there of for siure Yeah, I think again,
40:17
Speaker 1: I think you guys did a really good job of
40:19
Speaker 1: like breaking down a lot of my issues with Wanda
40:22
Speaker 1: and that movie. So that is a baseline with America.
40:27
Speaker 1: I think I I have I have a tendency now
40:31
Speaker 1: to go into Marvel movies with super low expectations, and
40:34
Speaker 1: I think with this one, I again, like I was
40:37
Speaker 1: pleasantly surprised to see like, oh, they actually brought up
40:40
Speaker 1: the fact that she has two moms. They had her
40:42
Speaker 1: wear a rainbow pin, like what which I saw it
40:45
Speaker 1: with you know one of my friends who has no
40:48
Speaker 1: context for any of this, since she like as soon
40:51
Speaker 1: as she came out screen, she was like wait a minute,
40:54
Speaker 1: and she gay like what like which I don't know.
40:57
Speaker 1: I mean again, like, I guess they did a little
40:59
Speaker 1: bit that, but at the same time, it was like,
41:02
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's two you did the bar
41:06
Speaker 1: minimum and then yeah, and then that aside, Like I
41:11
Speaker 1: think the actress was fantastic. I think she was. You know,
41:14
Speaker 1: she did a really good job of portraying the character.
41:17
Speaker 1: It was a little bit weird to see her story
41:20
Speaker 1: framed as like a tool for Doctor Strange's story more
41:26
Speaker 1: because first of all, they don't interact on the comics,
41:28
Speaker 1: which obviously, like that doesn't really matter, Marble, it can
41:30
Speaker 1: do whatever with their movies. I don't expect them to
41:32
Speaker 1: stick to the comics. But one of the things I
41:35
Speaker 1: think this is something I keep saying that I think
41:37
Speaker 1: annoys me about a lot of their newer female characters
41:40
Speaker 1: they're including, because I saw the same thing with Kate Bishop.
41:43
Speaker 1: America Chavez is a character who is shaped by a
41:46
Speaker 1: lot of the women in her life and a lot
41:48
Speaker 1: of the older women. A lot of people are women
41:50
Speaker 1: of color. Those are the kind of characters that inspire
41:54
Speaker 1: her to become who she is. She's really inspired by
41:56
Speaker 1: her mom's She's really inspired by characters like Carol Danvers
41:59
Speaker 1: and Mono Crambo and you know, even keep Bishop like
42:02
Speaker 1: they're really good friends. And you don't see her interact
42:06
Speaker 1: with women. You see her and her like interact with
42:08
Speaker 1: her mom's who instead of having them like die to
42:11
Speaker 1: save their dimension. They're killed in a weird accident that's
42:15
Speaker 1: never really explained. Um, and then yeah, and then it's
42:19
Speaker 1: like she she gets all of her confidence from doctor Strange,
42:23
Speaker 1: like a white male character who honestly, like doesn't even
42:29
Speaker 1: treat her very well. And it's it that was weird
42:33
Speaker 1: to me. I think Hawkeye didn't do this to the
42:36
Speaker 1: same extent. But one of the things that I know
42:39
Speaker 1: you guys brought up in the episode, like keep Bishop
42:41
Speaker 1: one of the aspects of her story which she was assaulted,
42:44
Speaker 1: and I get that that's a difficult storyline to deal with,
42:48
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's like she really was
42:52
Speaker 1: motivated by a desire to help other women in her position.
42:56
Speaker 1: She was really she was mentored by characters like Jessica
42:59
Speaker 1: Jones and mocking Jay who's in Agents of Shield. She's
43:04
Speaker 1: not a huge character, but she like there's all these
43:06
Speaker 1: women in her life that she looks up to, and
43:08
Speaker 1: they kind of just made it just Clint and her dad,
43:12
Speaker 1: who is the one who's actually evil in the comics,
43:14
Speaker 1: and her mom dies. So I don't know, Like I
43:18
Speaker 1: think Marvel like they definitely they're like, we're going to
43:22
Speaker 1: include some more female characters, but with limits. They can
43:25
Speaker 1: only be kind of like the mentee, like the character
43:28
Speaker 1: that's got to learn how to be confident and and
43:34
Speaker 1: you know whatever. And but they can't be like the
43:37
Speaker 1: They can't be the mentor character. They can't be Their
43:40
Speaker 1: confidence has to come from the men in their lives,
43:43
Speaker 1: which I think is an interesting message that they have
43:46
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, and then they either die or become
43:49
Speaker 1: so powerful and get evil. But I'm so disappointed that
43:53
Speaker 1: Kate Bishop doesn't make Jessica Jones. That would have been
43:55
Speaker 1: in a moazing like the commentary and the dial long
44:00
Speaker 1: in itself would have been hysterical. But I would love
44:04
Speaker 1: just seeing that. It's so good. I again, like Young Inventors,
44:08
Speaker 1: like any Marvel series, is super chaotic. It gets really
44:14
Speaker 1: corny at some point. It's incredibly two thousand five. But
44:18
Speaker 1: like I would so recommend reading it. It's got Kate.
44:20
Speaker 1: Kate's an amazing character. The twins are both amazing, Like
44:24
Speaker 1: all of the characters in that series are really fantastic.
44:27
Speaker 1: And we'll see, we'll see what I again, I think
44:31
Speaker 1: it's it's too soon to say with a lot of them.
44:34
Speaker 1: But I don't know, I don't know, Yeah, right, yeah,
44:39
Speaker 1: I mean That's one of my biggest issues on top
44:43
Speaker 1: of all this other stuff, is I feel like they
44:44
Speaker 1: just don't give the newer characters they're introducing, who are
44:49
Speaker 1: a lot of them women are marginalized people, as much
44:51
Speaker 1: depth and so like in the comics they might have it,
44:54
Speaker 1: but in the m CU, they really don't. And so
44:56
Speaker 1: like a lot of characters, I'm like, but you're so like,
44:58
Speaker 1: why do I care about this character? Because you gave
45:00
Speaker 1: me no real reason to They're just sort of there. Um.
45:04
Speaker 1: So I'm hoping that they'll they move away from that.
45:08
Speaker 1: But yeah, but America, I think America also like she's
45:12
Speaker 1: one of the characters. She if there's any character like
45:15
Speaker 1: you co compare to, she's definitely like a thor kind
45:17
Speaker 1: of character in the in within like Young Avengers. She
45:20
Speaker 1: comes up and she's like already like she knows she's powerful.
45:25
Speaker 1: She's very confident. I think she's like she has some
45:28
Speaker 1: like internal she doesn't really know what she's doing with
45:31
Speaker 1: her life. She's trying to figure out what you know,
45:34
Speaker 1: but like her purpose and all that, but she she's
45:36
Speaker 1: confident with her abilities. And I think that part of
45:38
Speaker 1: the story was missing, and you that's not something you
45:40
Speaker 1: get a lot with female characters. I think they tried
45:44
Speaker 1: a bit with Captain Marvel. I don't know. I have
45:48
Speaker 1: my own criticisms of that movie, but like it's not
45:52
Speaker 1: a kind of trope you see a lot with female characters.
45:54
Speaker 1: I think this is a female character where you had
45:57
Speaker 1: it and they decided to take that away. Yeah, so
46:13
Speaker 1: you have a question, what are your opinions on the
46:15
Speaker 1: newer shows like Mrs Marvel and She Holp. I have
46:18
Speaker 1: not seen She hoped bed Dubbed. I I love Miss
46:21
Speaker 1: Marvel um. I actually think again, like I'm I'm white.
46:25
Speaker 1: I can't speak from that, but at least from an
46:28
Speaker 1: outside perspective, I think like the way that they handled
46:31
Speaker 1: her story is probably better than they have other characters
46:35
Speaker 1: so far. U which again I think they had within
46:40
Speaker 1: They had Muslim creators, they had Pakistani creators on the show.
46:43
Speaker 1: I think that really helps. I love that show. I
46:47
Speaker 1: thought it was fantastic. I think that also is a
46:49
Speaker 1: good kind of way that I don't know. I know
46:52
Speaker 1: there was criticism of them changing her powers, which I get,
46:56
Speaker 1: but I think comparing it to things like yeah like America,
46:59
Speaker 1: I think they did it. They in a much better
47:00
Speaker 1: job with that she hulk. I I don't know yet.
47:06
Speaker 1: I think, um, I think I gonna wait till the
47:11
Speaker 1: series is over before I make a judge. I definitely,
47:14
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's fun that they're trying new
47:16
Speaker 1: like like, it's cool they're trying to do like a
47:19
Speaker 1: rom calm type thing. I don't love that they made
47:23
Speaker 1: her like I definitely agree with a lot of criticism
47:29
Speaker 1: that they definitely made her look like like much more
47:32
Speaker 1: toned down than she doesn't look like a whole because
47:35
Speaker 1: she looks like, you know, yeah women, you know, beauty expectations,
47:43
Speaker 1: all of that. Yeah, that w I think I am
47:48
Speaker 1: have more conflicting feelings about that one. I think like, yeah,
47:53
Speaker 1: that that wasn't really an answer, but I like it.
47:56
Speaker 1: I like it you are very reined in until the
47:59
Speaker 1: conclusion and then we'll talk about it. I do find
48:01
Speaker 1: that funny when you were talking about that, because I
48:03
Speaker 1: always think of cartoon characters that make animals into being feminine,
48:07
Speaker 1: and I'm like, but why making this bear look like
48:12
Speaker 1: they've got hips in breasts? This is very odd? And
48:18
Speaker 1: then of course a bow. Yeah, I know it's so.
48:22
Speaker 1: I think that reminds me because there was on TikTok.
48:26
Speaker 1: There was like a filter that like made your greet
48:29
Speaker 1: like I was like the shoeol filter, which first of all,
48:32
Speaker 1: they also added like fake eyelashes and lipstick and all,
48:35
Speaker 1: like I remember trying it and I was like, I
48:36
Speaker 1: don't know, I felt like I looked ridiculous because I
48:39
Speaker 1: was like I just look like I'm wearing a lot
48:40
Speaker 1: of makeup right now and I'm green. But there was
48:44
Speaker 1: also like, well, I can't I can't remember her name,
48:47
Speaker 1: but one of the like one of the Olympic Olympic
48:50
Speaker 1: athletes that's been super on TikTok, who's like super buff,
48:54
Speaker 1: like put the filter on and it was like this is, yeah,
48:57
Speaker 1: like you she should have looked more like this, like
49:00
Speaker 1: you're actually like super you Like, yeah, Marvel doesn't want
49:05
Speaker 1: to give their female characters muscles for some reason, even
49:09
Speaker 1: when they have super strength, which I don't know, maybe
49:12
Speaker 1: America's again, I love the actors who played her, I don't, yeah,
49:16
Speaker 1: but like they definitely they don't want to give women
49:18
Speaker 1: muscles for some reason. Oh yeah, we've talked about that before.
49:23
Speaker 1: People are yeah, some people are particular about that. I'm
49:29
Speaker 1: enjoying choke. I read a funny article about it the
49:30
Speaker 1: other day that was like, Wow, it's so low steaks
49:33
Speaker 1: and this is great. I was like, you're right. Yeah,
49:36
Speaker 1: I didn't really realize, but yeah, you're right. I think
49:40
Speaker 1: like there's like a couple episodes left and probably get
49:42
Speaker 1: high stakes in, but so far it's I'm pretty like okay, yeah,
49:48
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens with that
49:50
Speaker 1: and with all of this stuff. Which, speaking of, thank
49:54
Speaker 1: you so much for being here, Joey. This was We're
49:58
Speaker 1: so fun. I'm glad to have somebody. Samantha. It's always like,
50:04
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? That we could like bounce
50:06
Speaker 1: off and Samantha can interjected, wait a minute, the two
50:08
Speaker 1: of you hold on. I'm just here to be like what,
50:12
Speaker 1: which is great. We need that because otherwise a lot
50:16
Speaker 1: of listeners will be like in the same boat, but
50:18
Speaker 1: they won't be able to say, um, but you also,
50:23
Speaker 1: um are working on an episode on Scarlett Witch and religion. Yes,
50:29
Speaker 1: I am. So this has kind of started. I think
50:35
Speaker 1: people have been talking. There was a like the Washington
50:40
Speaker 1: Post TikTok guide did something about this. But one of
50:43
Speaker 1: the criticisms about the MCS take on the Scarlett witch
50:48
Speaker 1: that I have and a number of other fans of
50:51
Speaker 1: hat is that she in the comics is not only
50:55
Speaker 1: is she of Jewish descent, she's also Romani descent, so
50:59
Speaker 1: she's supposed to be a Jewish woman of color. She's
51:05
Speaker 1: not particularly religious, she's more like culturally Jewish, but yeah,
51:08
Speaker 1: her dad's Magneto. It's a big part of her character.
51:13
Speaker 1: I obviously, like with any older comic thing, they don't
51:17
Speaker 1: always handle, you know, there characters of color very well.
51:21
Speaker 1: They definitely lead into a lot of stereotypes about Romani people.
51:23
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it definitely they Marvel did
51:29
Speaker 1: Whitewasher first of all, and then they also took away
51:31
Speaker 1: or her Jewish identity, so there's kind of the dual
51:35
Speaker 1: issue there of Romani racer and Jewish racer. Personally, I
51:41
Speaker 1: also think that these identities really affect her kind of
51:45
Speaker 1: powers and how she's kind of presented as like a
51:48
Speaker 1: witch and some of the like the humanization that happens
51:51
Speaker 1: with her, which I I don't know, I think it was.
51:56
Speaker 1: I think Marvel could have done some much more interesting
51:59
Speaker 1: plotline I kept that in, but they did not. So yeah,
52:02
Speaker 1: I I I'm very excited to talk about that Scarlet
52:06
Speaker 1: Whi is one of my favorite characters. I'm also I'm
52:09
Speaker 1: Jewish too, so this is like she was also like
52:13
Speaker 1: one of the first, you know, really explicitly Jewish characters
52:17
Speaker 1: I remember reading about in comics and being super excited about.
52:21
Speaker 1: So another one that's close to my heart. Exciting. I'm excited.
52:25
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I can't wait. I'm excited to be confused
52:28
Speaker 1: by this too. Oh yeah, I know that. I if
52:30
Speaker 1: you thought this was confusing, I mean, yes, it's all
52:34
Speaker 1: of the Scarlet Witch stuff is it goes all over
52:37
Speaker 1: the place. Yes, I'm so excited. I am so excited.
52:44
Speaker 1: That's gonna be fun. So look forward to that in
52:49
Speaker 1: October hopefully. Listeners, and thank you, thank you, thank you
52:53
Speaker 1: again so much for being here, Jerry. This was so great.
52:56
Speaker 1: Love for sure. Yeah, of course. Yes. Do you want
53:00
Speaker 1: to call out where people can find you or just
53:02
Speaker 1: oh sure? Yeah? Um? So you can find me on
53:05
Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram at Pat not Pratt. It's p a
53:09
Speaker 1: t T. That's my last name. People misspell it is
53:12
Speaker 1: Pratt p r a t T all the time. So
53:14
Speaker 1: it's Pat not p a t t n o t
53:19
Speaker 1: p r a t t is. Yeah, okay, you can
53:23
Speaker 1: find me online. That's yeah, that's it. Yes, yes, yes, yes, um,
53:31
Speaker 1: well do that listeners um And as always, if you
53:35
Speaker 1: would like to contact us, you can our email Stuffing
53:37
Speaker 1: your mom Stuff at I hurt me dot com. You
53:39
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff. Podcasts are
53:40
Speaker 1: on Instagram and stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks. It's
53:42
Speaker 1: always to our super producer, Christina. Thank you, Christina, superhero indeed,
53:47
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff one protection by
53:50
Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcast in my heart Radio, you
53:51
Speaker 1: can check out there heart Radio, a Apple podcast wherever
53:53
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows