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Plot Twist: We Stayed Stateside · The Ethnos360 Podcast

• Ethnos360: Welcome friends to the Ethnos360 Podcast where we talk about vital topics, have honest conversations, and unpack the Great Commission. This episode is part of the series we call Real People, Real Stories. We hope you can see and hear your own story in today's conversation and be reminded that God is going to be as faithful with you as he has been with our guests. Alright, so I would love for you to start us off by just telling us about your your family of origin where you came from. Okay. Yeah, so my family is and my mom's side is from Peru. They came over around the same time to the States in like the 80s. Yeah, they fell in love, had me. yeah, from there I have two younger sisters and my childhood was, it was good. think that... Yeah, my parents obviously just wanted like a better life for us because there was a lot going on in South America during that time. But ⁓ yeah, my mom and that side of the family was ⁓ just grew up like in the Catholic Church. And then my dad's side was more like Pentecostal. I'm not really sure exactly ⁓ what religion, but. ⁓ they both had their own faith that obviously like seeped into my lives and my sister's lives, but grew up mostly going to the Catholic church. that was a really like Catholic school, everything that was a big part of my life. ⁓ but I, I wasn't a very good Catholic, so being in school and learning about religion and all of it, I think I was. actually kind of, I had a hard time with, you know, what they taught about God and just that kind of seemed like he was out to get you and you know, if you do wrong, he'll, you know, curse you. If you do good, he'll bless you. So I had a lot of, I think, anxiety, like as a, as a kid, just with those like undertones throughout. ⁓ But I really enjoyed my my family. That was a really big part of my life. We always got together and did big parties and like family was everything. so that that was what I did mostly. And I was a little bit older when around 11 or 12 when my parents divorced. And that was that was a really hard time because it was a hard age, I think, to kind of grasp what's actually happening in the whole relationship. ⁓ so my dad was pretty absent after that. We didn't have a great relationship. ⁓ And so it was just my mom and my sisters and I for since then after that. So. ⁓ So obviously there was a lot going on in my heart. I did look to God at times, but I didn't really know what that was supposed to look like, I guess. I think I just would pray. But it was a dark time, I think. I don't know if I've fully even have understood what I was going through during that time, but the effects eventually unraveled as I got older and struggled with, you know. commitment and abandonment and all of those anxiety things with you know having just like a Yeah, a father that wasn't really there for a lot of my childhood so Yeah Okay, so with with with church And going to Catholic Church were you guys like this is an every Sunday thing was it a once a month thing was this like holidays, because I think that that can vary a lot on, know, depending on how you're brought up. Yes. I would go pretty regularly on like Wednesday nights, the youth nights. ⁓ But as far as mass, they would do that at school mostly, like every Friday they would do mass at school. But my family would only go out of their way every so often on Sunday. So ⁓ it was kind of just When I was in a private school, I was really involved with the mass and everything. But then I think I was nine when we moved to a public school. And so I think after having that removed, was a lot less often that we would make an effort to go. And did you was, OK, so you were kind of confused. Did you find comfort at church or was it something you said that you were scared, you know, and didn't really, it just maybe didn't feel as light, maybe felt more dark. Was it something that you like enjoyed? Did you look forward to it or was it? ⁓ I didn't look forward to the actual like Sunday school or Wednesday, whatever teaching because it did feel very kind of like. these are all the things that you could be doing wrong and the 10 commandments and all that stuff. And I definitely went more for the social. I like to go into that social aspect. But yeah, I think there was a period where between when I was probably 12 or 13, when I started playing volleyball really regularly that I, we kind of just stopped going to church altogether. And for probably over a year, ⁓ didn't do much. And then one day my mom was like, hey, we're going to go to church. And I was like, just super scared. was like, I haven't been in a long time. Like, this is going to look really bad. And it was all about like performance. Like that's when I started to feel a lot of like, ⁓ wait, I am not looking forward to this because I haven't seen these people in a long time. And ⁓ yeah, didn't look forward. to like the shame, I think that I was gonna feel being there. Do you feel like you had a true understanding of the gospel or did that come later? ⁓ I would say no. I think that they obviously, I like knew the gospel like in my head, like I knew Jesus died for my sins and I'm a sinner, but there wasn't a lot of follow up. was... ⁓ I remember doing my first communion, that's like in second communion, think. And the priest talking to me and saying like, okay, you know, do you know why this is important? Like, do you believe in Jesus? And like, tell me what you believe in him. And I just remember telling him the right words, but knowing like, I'm just doing this so I can be with my class and not be like, you know. Yeah, the only one that's like having the hands across like, where they just love you. And so I think that that was, it was more of like a, again, like performance thing. Like I know the right words, but I don't really understand. ⁓ I don't understand like the story. And I don't know if that was just like, maybe, maybe they were talking about it and you know, I just didn't grasp it or if there really was like. just an overall misunderstanding. Okay, so high school, you transitioned to a public school going from Catholic school. What was that like? ⁓ It was a lot. A funny story is I was getting on the bus for the first time because, you know, the schools don't do that. And I sat on the bus and I like put my seatbelt on. Good girl. I kind of looked around and I was like, nobody had their sifl and I was like, okay, guess we don't do that. And I was so, I was so like, why does anybody have their sifl on their? So a lot of little things, like cultural things like that, that just kind of I had to learn through. But for the most part, I really liked how Just like easygoing it was, like it just felt more comfortable. Obviously there's a lot of different groups of people and a lot of different, you know, backgrounds, but I think I found a lot of comfort that like, oh, like this is, these are just people that have all kinds of different stories and, you know, just finding my place with a good set of friends was, was good too. Okay. So when did... ⁓ When were you given the opportunity to try a different type of church? Yeah, so, ⁓ well, my freshman year, my mom, I don't know, you know, there's a lot going on in her life and in her heart. And she came to me and was like, hey, we're gonna try a new church. We're gonna like convert to Christianity. I was like, ⁓ okay. Okay. ⁓ Like in my head I was like, isn't it the same thing? So we ended up going, we tried out this other church ⁓ that was more Christian. I don't know if it was like non-denominational or I'm not sure what it was, but ⁓ not a Catholic church, more Christian church. And ⁓ I remember being a part, like walking into the youth group. and had like a new Bible and just like again, very new and heard the doors were closed to the sanctuary area. And I just heard like this like music, like the music and I was like, is there like a concert going? And they're like, oh no, that's just like our worship. And I think that I loved that because I, my, you know, I I love hymns and you know that I appreciate that music, but I loved how it was like, oh, like, this is kind of like cool. You get to like worship in a different way with different kinds of music. So that was really appealing to me. And eventually it didn't really work out with that church and youth group for different reasons. But I just didn't really feel like a part of it or welcomed after. a few times and so I told my mom like I'm not gonna go anymore and then ⁓ my sophomore year I was in a class with ⁓ my now husband Josh and we were just friends for you know most of the year and then eventually ⁓ he was very persistent and he like you know was was like, hey, you want to get together, want to hang out? And it's very clear he wanted to be more than friends for a while. And I just wasn't about it. But eventually he grew on me because, you know, he's awesome. yeah, once we started dating, he invited me to his church. He was like, hey, do you go to church? And I was like, not really. And so. He was talking it up like my youth pastor, he's really great. really, know, every Wednesday I leave and I'm just like an, ⁓ and I'm like, okay, like that sounds cool. So went to a youth group and it was totally different, I think, because he knew a lot of the people there and they were already friends. So they were excited that I was coming. And so I felt very welcomed and loved and and seeing and the youth pastor, I remember his message that night was like, it really rocked my world. I think he was able to lay out God's character in such a way that I had just never heard. It was kind and God wanted a relationship with me and like what it's going to be like in glory with him. And I think it was just really impactful. And I think that's when I started to really consider like, OK, is this what I want in life? Like, is this what I've been looking for? This relationship with God that, you know, wasn't really advertised in the Catholic Church. ⁓ So I just I don't really have an exact time, but it was. Probably within a few months, that was what, 2012 or 13? You know how old I was, 14, 15 years old? There was a time period in there when I just realized that I started, like I just was totally bought in to like, this is where I wanna be, this is the kind of God that I want a relationship with and. started to feel a lot more, yeah, just like accepting who God is, like actually, and what the Bible says about him. And that was another thing in the Catholic Church, like, you're not really encouraged to read your Bible, like on your own. And so being in his like Christian church where it's like, no, like you need to be in the word, that was... was really impactful for me too, because I was like, oh, like, I didn't know that I could like, you know, read this for myself and learn, you know, who God is. And that was really transformative. And then there was a certain point where Josh's Josh and I's relationship was very tumultuous in high school. We were 15 and young and dumb and We, yeah, there's a lot of things going on there that I was struggling with. And I think I had really idolized like that relationship or like just finding love in different places. And ⁓ the Lord really took hold of my heart. And I realized that like, no, nobody can fulfill like the love that he has for me. And I need to like. put my identity in him. And so I think that, I think that was a moment where I really had like a heart change of like, and accepting like, only like Christ can fulfill my debt, can fulfill my love, like the love that I long for, fulfill my like every need and desire. And like, he's the one that is like, that saved me from just all the struggles and the hardship and just the feeling of in the Catholic Church, I knew that I was a sinner, but it was always a question if I was gonna spend eternity with God. I think realizing that only God can satisfy the desire I have to just have that close relationship, knowing that I was like, I'm very... well aware that I'm a sinner, having the security that like Christ did at once and then that's you're good. Like you're you're his and just belonging to him. So that was that was, I think, the start of my relationship with Christ. And ⁓ thankfully, like through that church and they're actually are sending church now. So we've ⁓ we've built a lot of, you know, good relationships there and Yeah, I kind of just skyrocketed on my journey with the Lord. How did that impact? I know that your mom was looking for a church and like, what did that look like to your family? You starting to really get involved and really find an identity in Christ at this time? Yeah, I think that they. At first, it wasn't a big deal. When they saw how dedicated I was. I think they started to question, know, like, what are doing? Like, ⁓ so, so yeah, I think they had a hard time with it once I became like a very avid believer and like was looking into like missions and doing something that like wasn't on the course for like the life that they wanted me to have. ⁓ Yeah, I think it came with a lot of hesitation for them. They were, they had a lot of questions and just wondered if like, is this, you know, is this the right place for you? Or they, you know, are they teaching you good things? So I think that they could sense that there was a big change and they didn't really know like how to handle it at first because yeah, because it was a big change. especially being close with your family and that would be hard. ⁓ Okay, so what you just mentioned, like your pull towards the field, potential missions. Okay, so how did that start in you and what did that look like? ⁓ Yeah, so going into my senior year, the church offered this mission trip to Haiti and it's something that they did for all the seniors every year. And so I was really interested since, you know, my family is from Peru and Colombia. had been there a few times and I had loved traveling. So I was like, I love traveling. But now that I was a new believer, I realized like, oh, this could be cool to go travel because it's something I love to do. But also experience like I've heard the missions word and the buzz around it, but I just didn't know much about it. So, went to Haiti and with a really cool organization and got to see their ministry there. And I remember being with like my group of friends and they were all like, ⁓ we want to be missionaries here. We can't wait to come back. And I remember thinking, I remember wanting to feel the same way. Like, yeah, like I could see myself here maybe, but I had a thought. when I was just on my own and I was like, I feel like God wants me to do this, like do ministry with people and ⁓ like teach them God's word and like in the setting. But I wonder, like I feel like he wants me to do that with people that don't know about him. Like these people already have a Bible, they already have a church. They have like... missionaries that are present there. was like, so it would make sense if I went somewhere where God didn't, like God wasn't known about, but I didn't had no idea about unreached people groups. I didn't, I immediately thought, I was like, well, surely everybody knows about God. Yeah. Yeah. It was just so funny because I had no, like, I had no education or knowledge about unreached people groups. And the Lord just gave me that thought of like, maybe there's a place where nobody knows about him. And I kind of like was like, yeah, surely not. But a year later, when I was in college, ⁓ I had a really good church, a great mentor and friends who were very missions minded. And I think at that point, I knew like, like wanted to pursue that. ⁓ The church I was a part of ⁓ in my college town. did talk about missionaries in unreached people groups, but I didn't really know what that meant. Like nobody really explained it. I think at that time people just like knew what it was. I did. But it was actually through our home church, Josh, we were, we had a lot of off, there we go again. We were off and on again. And at that time we were dating in college and he was helping out with the middle schoolers at our home church. the middle school pastor was really good friends with some ethnos 360 missionaries. And they came and talked to the middle schoolers about like what they do and they were in the training. And Josh was like just doing slides for this couple and In the meantime, he was like, wait a second, wait a second, this is really cool. And he called me right away and was like, hey, I have to tell you about this organization and these missionaries. So he just went off, like unreached people groups, are millions of people, third of the world that doesn't have access to like... whether it's God's word or church, whatever. And I was just blown away. I was like, what? Like, I didn't know that actually existed that there were people, lots of people that had never had the opportunity to like learn about God. And a lot of them don't even have a Bible in their language to learn about God. And so that was a big shift for me in my heart. Like, OK, I really want to pursue this. looked into all kinds of different organizations, but I loved that Ethnos had the Bible school and the training, which was like really extensive. So I thought I was like, maybe, you know, after I'm done with college or yeah, I was really focused on like school and volleyball and everything. I... I kind of put it on hold, but I knew I just want to get involved with this organization. So ⁓ fast forward to our spring semester of college freshman year. Josh and I, both take a course, Perspectives on the World Christian Movement. I think that's the whole name. But Perspectives. So it's a... semester long course and it dives into like all these different types of mission work that's out there. So that was a huge like educational piece for me that was missing and that really solidified like, okay, the Lord like wants me to be a part of this and is clear in scripture that, you know, he's a missional God and like, he wants everyone to be a part of it. But me specifically, I felt like he wants me to go. And so I was really set on like, okay, I'm gonna go. I don't know what this is gonna look like, but you know, I wanna be like training and Bible school, all that stuff. I, around that time, actually it might've been when the couple came to speak, but there was, my mentor in college was, went to this missions conference and she met a guy who was a rep for Ethnos, Doug Scheibel, ⁓ the legend. And he actually knows the couple that came to speak at our church. It's all very close. Our hometown is in Oklahoma, in one city in Oklahoma and my college was just like an hour away. So there was a lot of overlap there. So. ⁓ She ran into him and was like, hey, I've got a girl that is really interested in your organization. He was like, ⁓ yeah, I'll meet up and we'll get coffee. Josh happened to be visiting me that weekend and he was like, I was like, hey, I'm gonna go meet this guy who is a rep for the org and he's probably gonna tell me about, you know, what it's like. I was like, do you wanna come? He's like, ⁓ yeah, wanna come. We met Doug at like a Starbucks and I walk up and I was like, I think that's him. And Josh was like, wait, are you meeting with Doug? I was like, wait, do you know Doug? He's like, I just met him like a couple of weeks ago. And I was like, so I think Doug was there either at the same time or soon after that couple was visiting our church. But Doug told us all about. the mission and about Interface specifically and like going on a short-term trip. So ⁓ I was like, ⁓ yeah, I want to do that. Because I had already been to like Haiti a couple of times at that point. So I was all about like the short-term trips. And ⁓ so yeah, so fast forward to the spring. I am really interested in Interface. I sign up and I'm like really looking forward to, you know, six weeks and popping your guinea. Eventually Josh does come along and I was like, I just want to do this on my own. We have so much history and I just like want to figure this out. And I told him, I was like, if the Lord wants you to come on this trip, he'll provide for you. And I was really convinced that he was not going to throw me. Cause I just like wanted to do this on my own. But what was funny is he actually, Josh raised like so much money in like such a short amount of time and like leftover for me too. So I feel like it was kind of like a, God was like, gotcha. So yeah, we both ended up going on interface together in New Guinea. And that was, I think, kind of the, like just, pushed us on our trajectory to doing mission work. But yeah, at the end of that trip, I realized that with all the logistics of being in college, I had like a certain grant and that I had to fulfill after I graduated and had to work a certain amount of time. So when I was like calculating all of it, I was like, so whether I... If I finish college and then have to like work to pay off debt or finish college and have to work to fulfill the certain grant, it's going to be at least like three more years to finish college and then like another few years to do work or whatever. And so I'm like eight years from now is when I would be starting Bible school and training, which is four years long. So I was like, this is a lot of. Right. A lot of years and I was ready to just, I know, was just, I felt like I was ready to dive in. This is what I was passionate about. I was getting a teaching degree and the only reason I wanted to do that was so that I could use it on the mission field. So I realized that I wasn't passionate about teaching. I was more passionate about like mission work. And so that was something I'd figured out on that trip. But yeah, so at the end of the trip, I decided to go to the Bible school that fall, which was like only a few weeks away. And that is like a whole ⁓ thing. Okay, so you were at college, getting a degree. You also were like, you know, pretty good at volleyball. So how hard was it to step away from like what you had thought, know, man, I'm really good at this, could potentially have a career that way. You how hard was that? Yeah. Were you just like, you just felt like super comfortable with it? ⁓ Definitely not comfortable with it. I would I would say it was probably the biggest leap of faith that I've ever done in my life up until that point. And I, you know, I really love volleyball. So that was that was hard, I think, knowing like, OK, there's something good here for me. And like this could be. really great and just kind of letting that dream go. And then with schooling, you know, obviously nowadays, like there's a lot of security and having a degree and just knowing like, you know, we can kind of find work wherever. So that was a big one, not only for me, but I think for my family mostly. Yeah, they came here to like give us a better life. Absolutely. And they have. And it was, that was a pretty tumultuous time, like with a lot of tension between my family and I when I decided to like take that big leap of faith because I was so convinced, like this is what the Lord wants me to do. And that doesn't really happen often. I feel like it takes a lot for me to know like, okay. it's clear this is what God wants me to do. And if I don't, I would feel like I would be disobeying him. And, but going back to my family, like family is everything. And so that was, that was a really hard ⁓ decision to make because my family had a lot of, a lot of dreams for me and they had a lot of ⁓ Yeah, they obviously saw like a lot of potential there and they wanted me to like have that and make money and be successful and do all the things. ⁓ you know, a part of me wanted that too. So, ⁓ but I think it was because it was about my faith and it was about doing mission work that obviously was not like what they had in mind at all. ⁓ I faced a lot of opposition with my family just because we just don't come from the same perspective. And so it was a lot of conversations and a lot of just going through the Bible and like, like this is what I'm convinced about. And it's okay that you're not convinced about it, but you know, I'm, I'm like, you know, going into my adult life and these are the decisions I'm going to make and So that was really really difficult for them because like everything was about our family and taking care of each other which is something I I really value and have taken with me and and we still you know everything that was a long time ago and so things are are great now, but at the time it was just I was shaking a lot of things up and It was uncomfortable for everybody But over time Over time, I think the Lord has been really gracious to all of us and like my family is super supportive. They'll support you no matter what you do. ⁓ now things are much better. Like everyone kind of understands this is what we're doing and this is what we're passionate about. ⁓ so yeah, but yeah, really hard at first. I think taking that big leap of faith. ⁓ And yeah, quitting volleyball wasn't fun because I had to you know, go to my coach and my team and say, yeah, I'm not going to do this anymore. So ⁓ yeah. Yeah. I feel like a lot of people maybe who have families that aren't that don't have a missional background. Yeah. I think this is a hard concept. Right. Of, you know. you could have the American dream, especially for, you your parents came here for you all to have this American dream. So, yeah, I know I feel like this is, know, lot of people have struggled with this. Yeah. I think a lot of, you know, my family, I'm not really sure where they stand on their beliefs. Like, so I think that is probably harder to understand if you don't already have like that, like biblical understanding. Yeah. But ⁓ like for my husband, Josh, his family, they're all believers. They're really solid. And they still had a really hard time too because it just is like, just, know, obviously family, that was hard to like sacrificing, like being away from them. Like that is a really, for anybody that's hard. ⁓ But yeah, it is, it is hard. And it was hard for us too, I think. knowing that this is what God wanted me to do, but knowing like there was going to be, like I did, it did still feels like, you we're in the States, but it feels like a sacrifice to not be close to any of our family. So yeah, it's hard. Okay. So you took the leap, you went to Bible school and you got there just real quick. Yes. Right after making the decision, made the decision. Here we go. Okay, how did that play out? Did Josh go to Bible school at the same time? Yeah, he did. He did. And you were on again at this We were still on. Still together. Still on. Yeah. After we started dating in college, that was like, we were like, okay. That was the final. Yes, the final. Yes. Okay. We had some really good mentors who are still really precious to us and they have really... helped us through a lot of the relationship stuff. So that was the point where we were doing good. And then it just, the Lord really blessed it. So yeah, we were dating when we went to Bible school. ⁓ We got engaged pretty soon after we got there. I mean, it makes sense. You and are gonna be together. Okay, so what was it like coming from the outside? world into like a very new bubble of world at the Bible school. Tell me what that was like for you. Yeah, that was super fun. I remember feeling really unsure about like, I don't know who was all at this Bible school. I like heard through the grapevine that, you know, there's missionary kids and homeschool kids. Which was what you're gonna get. That's funny. Which was not nice because I grew up in public school and so we just didn't have an understanding for all the different types of backgrounds and childhoods. So I remember telling Josh, is everyone gonna be wearing long skirts? long, you know, whatever. And I just was I was feeling very unsure, like, are we going to fit in here? Because Josh and I were very probably more like Black Sheep comparatively. So ⁓ but it was so funny. I walked in. Nobody's wearing long skirts. Check. Yeah. Which was. which was fine if they were, but I ran into my ⁓ RA and I hadn't met, like really, I talked to her through Facebook a little bit before coming there. And when I met her though, she had like the whole side of her head shaved off, like in this cool little design. And I just was like, okay, okay, relief. was like, okay, this is, yeah, this is good. I, which is funny maybe. everyone feels that way, but I thought she was super cool and she is. ⁓ but yeah, I think the, the, the culture part of it was fine. Like I think, you know, as we were there, we, you know, learned like, it used to be very, you know, like strength and, but yeah, it's just not like that anymore. Yeah, I think the, most, like surprising thing I saw was I was going to class and there was like an MK just in the tree like walking down the steps and I was like ⁓ there's there's a person up there but I just I loved it I was like that is so cool that they feel comfortable to do that yeah and that like yeah it's just you didn't see that at college though at your college no no yeah but ⁓ Yeah, I really loved getting to know all these different people from everywhere. And it was really eye-opening for me because I was like, I do not know anything about this and all their testimonies. It was cool. Okay, so Bible School, you're engaged. When did you guys get married? We got married. Was it during Bible School or after? It was after our first year. So we spent the first year being in like the single. And then our second year we were on the married floor, which now it's all different, but there was a floor for the marrieds. And we were there. And then you guys still, you both felt like, okay, yes, is FOSU 60, we're doing this. This is what we want to do. Yeah. We were very like dead set on, were going to a indigenous people group and we were going to... translate the Bible and teach them how to read and write their own language. That was like, yeah, we were all in for that. Okay. And then did you guys, after you graduated Bible school, did you take time off? Did you go straight to training? How did that look for you? We interned for a year at the Bible school ⁓ in the mobilization department. So doing like campus events and like like perspectives, like putting that class on and stuff. So we were there for another year and that's when we had our son, Abel. That was a good learning year for us, is the nice way to put it. Learning how to be parents, learning how to do ministry and like balance that. So we didn't do that very well. was rough just trying to figure out family and ministry. how those two come together and we didn't do it right for that year and we really put ministry over our marriage and it was hard to come out of that. But then we went to the training and that was a good, life is a lot slower there. So it was good to kind of reflect and process through that. yeah, still, so yeah. three years of Bible school and then the two years at training. That was during COVID, so it was like kind of weird. Okay, a whole new dynamic of interesting. Yes. Okay, and then you finished training and you are here, stateside, not overseas in a people group. You want to talk about that? Yeah, so we... We're very excited to be overseas. We had met a few different people that we thought, ⁓ yeah, we would partner with them. We would go to this country. We didn't really mind like what country we went to. Some people really want to be in a certain place, but we just wanted to have like a good team. Like we wanted to have people that we trust and people that like we can rely on. So we had a lot of relationships that were like that. But for one reason or another, things kind of fell through. People, you know, yeah, there's a lot of different circumstances that just led to us kind of like starting over being like, okay, where are going to go? Who are we going to be with? And I kind of, we're trying to figure that out. We had decided to possibly go with some friends to Papua New Guinea. And during that time where we were trying to figure that out, we had some really good friends that knew that they were going to stay stateside. A lot of them had different health issues that just prevented them from being overseas long term. So they knew, OK, we're going to be stateside. So we're going to go check out the home office and the homes and figure out like where we can fit in. And that group of people happen to be like our really close friends. And so we were like, ⁓ you're coming to Florida? We're going to be overseas in like the next year. So we'll come. We'll probably, you know, we're never going to be together again. We're going to be all scattered everywhere. So we just came for fun. We were like, we're gonna go to the beach. We're gonna have a fun time with friends. And the Lord was like, actually, you're not. Well, we did. But we came with them to all this stuff. Because we were really excited to be at the home office and see all the support work that was going on so that our missionaries can be sent. Yeah. So we were excited to meet like people in finance and the ID and mobilization that were like, okay, these are the people that are going to be like holding us down over here while we're doing the work over there. so ⁓ we're excited. We met everybody and but it was really, yeah, it was truly the Lord just working in our hearts because Everybody we talked to, all of them asked us like, ⁓ are you interested in coming? We're like, no, we're going to we're going to Papua New Guinea. They were like, OK. But they everybody was just so like kind and not a knock on anybody, but a little older. And so we were we were like, OK, there's not a lot of like young. families like coming in and just hearing ⁓ hearing all of their testimonies and also like what they do for ministry and the sacrifices that they've had to make was really eye-opening for for me because ⁓ it's easy to to look at the work that's going on here and just kind of be like, ⁓ yeah, they're just you know working on their computers or, you know, it's not, a lot of people can kind of make it lesser than, and I think honestly, Josh and I had a thought that, yeah, it kind of was. And so being here, learning about like their hearts and their faithfulness and dedication, like people who are supposed to be retired are just still like, Shipping away and every day and it just was a yeah, a huge like, whoa, this is super eye opening and realizing that actually this work is just as difficult and it's like just as impactful. And it's like all of it, like all of it has to happen. Like we all have to work as a team to, you know, reach the unreached. but this was just ways that we just didn't think we're like, you know, we're a part of that. And so I think as we were visiting, I started to feel like this heavy burden of like, are we supposed to be here? I don't know if that is what the Lord has, but I almost felt like that same feeling I had when we went to Bible school and I was like, it's just... feel this like heaviness that, okay, I think this is what God wants me to do. But I was really nervous to even tell Josh about it, because Josh is like super, like very driven, very like, he's got a goal and he'll get it. And I was like, I think I have to tell him that I'm like feeling this way. What was really cool was after that trip, we sat down and talked about it. And he actually felt that way, too. And I was like, Whoa, like that is really big for you because he he's a way better decision maker than ever. So I have a hard time with especially big decisions. So I was that I think it actually made it worse because I was like, wait, if you're thinking about this now, I don't know to feel about like so. So, yeah, a lot of prayer, a lot of just Lord, what what do you have for us? Like we're willing to do whatever you want us to do. But like this is what we had planned. This is what we've been telling our church for the last five years. Yeah. And they have been very much advertising that this is what we're going to do. Yeah. So it felt it was just like a huge crossroads for us and trying to figure that out. It was difficult, but it was like. OK. Like there's something here and Josh's heart feels really led to it. I do too, but we want to honor, you know, what we said. So we actually decided to, bring it to our church leadership. And that was something that through our training, like learning about church planning and evangelism and pre-evangelism where you're just like, you know, trying to honor the Lord and everything you do. like honoring the people there and their leadership, kind of. like soaked in this principle of like, we're gonna, like the church is sending us, we're gonna talk to our leadership and see what they think, because like they're the ones sending us. So we kind of ⁓ presented both options. They already knew, you know, the whole, you know, what it takes to go overseas and what that would look like. But we presented the option to be a part of ⁓ mobilization here. and ⁓ specifically help out with the short-term trips, like Interface, the one that we went on and others. And so when we presented the options, we kind of just told them, like, we're willing to do either one. we just want to, we want to do what you guys want us to do. And so I think that they felt very honored to be a part of that decision. Yeah, after a week, they had called us and they said, hey, like we're pretty unanimous that you guys go to Florida. And we were like, like, well, that's what it is. so it was, yeah, just very clear. The Lord was like, yep, this is where you're supposed to go. We, we felt it and our church supported it and unanimously decided that we should go in there. So I think that was just like, for me, it was an act of like God's faithfulness to just like, yes, like you can trust that I'm the one leading you here. And so yeah, we decided to come here and then we actually came here. We did support raising for a year and then came here in like 2022. Yeah. Okay, being here and doing the work that you do, which you guys are amazing and you do great things. Has there ever been a time that you guys have just been like, ugh, we're done. We want to tap it out, had enough. Well done. Yes, multiple times. Are you willing to share any with us? Yeah, I think that, yeah, this is... This is actually important because, um, yeah, we're just, we're just people trying to figure it out. And there are probably more days than not. come in feeling like, this really doing like, am I really serving the Lord? Am I really doing anything worthwhile? I'm on my computer all day, just like designing things and yeah, it's. It's hard in the moment to see the vision and God's purpose in it. So I feel like ⁓ the biggest thing that moving here and I think still working through, but have been working through the past few years is we had a very good understanding of what we were gonna sacrifice and what we were going to... Like, what were you gonna give up and not give up being overseas and being here now, like, totally flipped on his head. The things that we thought we were gonna give up, we haven't. And the things that we are giving up now are things that we thought we were going to. I don't know if that makes sense. Okay, can you give an example? Yeah. Like, the family aspect, like, we thought we were gonna be, like, basically... not a lot of contact, like far away and being here in the States actually has given us a lot of access to like being with our family for holidays or visits. ⁓ I think more on the ministry side, like I was really passionate or I am really passionate about like translation and ⁓ like linguistics, all of that. Something I thought was like going to be... something I was gonna be doing all the time and now it's like, ⁓ I actually don't get to be a part of that at all, like in any way. So just, I mean, some of them are bigger, but some of them like smaller too, like being in the city, like being in a town, I can go to a coffee shop and I can, you know, go to... them all and you know those kind of things that you hear missionaries like oh like we just want some chick-fil-a like sure yeah it's like I can have chick-fil-a whatever yeah so I think those things I don't know if it's maybe like guilt or if it's like I thought I was gonna give this up and now I don't have to in a lot of areas and or things that I was like, wait, I thought I was gonna do this, but I actually don't get to do that at all. ⁓ And now that we've been here for a few years, we have a lot of friends that we were in training with that ⁓ are actually overseas and like moving into like people groups and like, like they're doing it. Like they're doing the thing that we were like, this is what we're gonna do. Yeah. So, sorry. You're good. ⁓ Yeah, I think that's something that has. been hard because it's like... I think like on the surface, it's something that we almost like we like glorified like, we're going to be like doing this. But realizing like, right now, that's just not what the Lord has. ⁓ But I think in that revealed a lot about like, what, for me, like what my idea of like ministry is. And so ⁓ Now that we're here and it kind of seems like, well, you know, nobody, yeah, on a large scale, like the work that's being done here just doesn't really get like talked about and it doesn't really get advertised. And so ⁓ there's a lot of people here that are like being faithful and like doing not even just like doing the Lord's work, but it's just like ⁓ I've learned a lot about just ministry and missions in general that you don't even have to be in an organization to be doing mission work. It's so much more than that. It's about growing close to the Lord. It's about making disciples wherever you are. And that is like... all that he does, he just wants our hearts and he just wants other people's hearts too. So that requires us to be faithful to what he's putting in front of us and then faithful to the people around us. ⁓ I think that that has been a very hard lesson that the Lord is like teaching us just being here in the States is like, yeah, this isn't really glamorous, you know, to live. to do the support side of things, it's like, that doesn't really matter. It's like, just wants our hearts. And I think being here, doing what we're doing is, it is encouraging to see how the Lord, looking back at different things, seeing how the Lord is just growing our hearts for him and growing other people's hearts for him by us. getting to do what we do with like short-term trips or, you know, designing banners for a conference, you know, just stuff like that. Sometimes it all like comes together and it's like, okay, that makes sense. Like, you know, so, but yeah, I, yeah, it's hard, I think, too, when you have expectations or you have ideas of like what it's supposed to look like and God just... really humbles us and says, hey, actually, it's not really about what you do. Because he's ultimately the one that is doing all the work overseas and here. And it's all a part of his vision and his goal, his mission for the body of Christ. So. ⁓ So it's also encouraging to hear about our friends that are like in, you know, building their homes and seeing the hardships they're going through and to have a lot of empathy for like, wow, like, like we get to do this together and it looks really different, like very different, but it's all for the same like purpose. And so that has brought a lot of ⁓ encouragement and just, and yeah. in a ministry that kind of feels like, okay, do the same thing every day. I really appreciate you sharing that. ⁓ I know this is something that Brian and I have struggled with as well. So you guys totally are alone and I'm sure there's like a bunch of people. You know, once you come here and you give up that desire to be the one to get to do that, to get to bring the gospel to these people, ⁓ that is hard. It's hard. ⁓ But you are... not any less faithful to the Lord than the people who are overseas. So we appreciate you being here. ⁓ Okay, I'm going to wrap it up by asking one last question of you. ⁓ Can you see, is there a point in your story, no matter where it is, that you see like, ⁓ I mean, like, You've already, you've talked about God's faithfulness a bunch throughout your time just right now. But is there, is there one point that you like, it's something that you keep looking back on and being like, ⁓ like in a hard day or whatever, like, ⁓ the Lord was faithful and it could have only been him at this little moment in time. He's the one that did that. it's, know, do you have like something that you can then go back to, to like remember like, ⁓ yeah, God is good and he's faithful to me. Do have a story for us? Yeah, I think. ⁓ gosh, there's a lot, which is amazing. There's a lot of stories that I can When you're looking for it, it's amazing to see then how much he's in all of it. Yeah, I think the biggest one that comes to mind is probably when we were deciding to go to Bible school. ⁓ You know, I had like three week turnaround to like get everything together, like basically drop out of college and quit volleyball and tell my family and like, you know, be with them during that time. And I remember like packing my car and leaving Josh and I like caravans and I had like twenty dollars in my pocket. OK. ⁓ And just like I'm going to Bible school and there's a deposit that is due that I have no idea. How am I going to get that paid? And, but I did have a job lined up and specifically Waukesha where the Bible school is right now. They have a lot of people do bus driving. And so that was just something I was like, okay, I'm going to do that. but there's a lot of training that you're supposed to do. And ideally you want to get there earlier so that you can do the training. before school starts, but I was getting there like days before school, had to do all the training. And towards the end of my training, I was like going to the DMV to get my CDL. when I got there, they were gonna process it, but they were ⁓ like, system's not letting us process it. They were like, you shouldn't have your permit even. And I was like, what's going on. so, yeah, so all my records from Oklahoma came to Wisconsin and there was like a speeding ticket I didn't pay for when I was 16. A new driver. And so that kind of, I don't know, it messed everything up. OK, so they were like, you cannot get a license right now. You have to wait six months. And I was like. ⁓ my gosh, I cannot wait six months. So I ⁓ went back to school and just was panicking because I was like, I haven't even made money yet and now I can't even like I spent all this time to like do this. Yeah. So a few days later to really rub it in the finance department had to meet with me and say, hey, you got to pay your deposit. You actually have to give us some money. got to pay in deposit or else like you're out of here. So I was like, ⁓ my gosh. And I think that was the first time I, because I had made like this huge leap of faith, you know, this was like a really big thing in my, ⁓ my faith journey at the time. And I was just like, ⁓ my gosh, Lord, what is going on? Like, I'm not supposed to be here. I wasn't supposed to do this. My family was right. you know, yeah, everybody was right. And I think that I was just panicking because I was like, maybe I didn't like understand. And I, yeah, it was really, it was really rough. But so to put things in perspective, that was on like a Friday, I believe, where they had told me and they said, bye. next week, like, we'll give you till Monday. Okay. ⁓ Maybe give you a little longer, but... Okay. So I was like, okay. That was probably a hefty amount. Yeah, it was, I think, $3,000. Okay. Right. Okay. Yeah. For the deposit, which, you know, I don't know what it is now, but it was very affordable. Right. For college, it was very affordable. But ⁓ I only had $20, so... And I, that was on a Friday. I was panicking and just asking people to pray for me. And I think Josh is in the same boat too, but he was actually like going to start his job. So they didn't have a lot of, they weren't as concerned. They weren't as concerned. Yeah. Yes. So, um, I, We asked a lot of people to pray for me and just, yeah, because I had no idea what was going to happen. And I think even more so just realizing like, I'm going to have to pack all my stuff and leave and I just need support. But it was amazing because like Saturday, all day Saturday and Sunday, I would come. to my desk and find just like piles of cash, checks. In the mailbox, people would like shove like cash and checks in there. People would come up to me and be like, hey, I sold my video game or hey, this is just $5 but like, I know the Lord will bless it. And I was just so moved by like. just, it just started like piling up and when I like counted all of it, it was like the full amount for the deposit. And I was like, whoa, only, only the Lord could have done this because there's no way I could have even made that amount of money if I tried. in over the weekend. And that was, sorry, that was like on Monday, I was able to like say, here's my deposit. So over three days, the Lord just provided for me and miraculously and through the body, which is also a huge testimony to that. it was crazy because I wasn't even asking people, like, hey, what do you think about? But people were just like, just send it over. So I think. Going through that, through this time of immense doubt, like, oh no, I did not read this right. And God was like, no, you did. You heard me. You're following me. And this is what I have for you. That was just a huge testimony to his faithfulness. And I think from there was just like, got to really, other than obviously like, through scripture and like seeing how like in the songs, know, we're people are just people and they want all these different crazy desires and things and and how like, you know, God is going to be faithful to us no matter what we do, no matter what we desire, what we think, like he's just going to be faithful. And I think that was a huge, a huge ⁓ Yeah, story of like kind of like rock, you will, that I go back to. It's like that was the time that he was faithful and he's continued to like, prove that to me. Yeah. Our church calls them stones of remembrance. Yes. Yeah. That's what I meant. Rock. Good. I know what you're saying. Yeah. OK, that's awesome. That's so cool. And ⁓ I just I love that. I love hearing people's little like. those moments that like could only be God. And it's so amazing that he does it for all of us. He doesn't just do it for one person. And if we're looking for it and if we're praying about it, he's going to answer and he's going to provide in ways that we don't expect, which is amazing and incredible. And it's so fun to look at and then be able to look back on and remember all the things that he has done for us and know that he will continue to hold us. ⁓ Thank you for being vulnerable with us and being here and thank you for you and Josh have an amazing ministry here and we're really grateful to have you. So thanks for being here. Thank you for investing the time to listen to today's episode. It's our prayer that what you heard causes you to think more about your next step as a believer who understands the Great Commission. 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