Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory about his choice of The Dominators (3/5)

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory about his choice of The Dominators (3/5) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:39
  Welcome back to hamster with a blunt.
• 0:42
  Penknife the Doctor Who commentary podcast at the risk
• 0:47
  of. Flogging, this choked to death.
• 0:49
  I have sent quickie off to an Amazon box in the next room and
• 0:54
  I'm telling him he's not quite. So the end of the episode, I'm
• 0:57
  going to send him off to Steven Alexander.
• 0:59
  It was very jealous. I've got a cork in my house, you
• 1:02
  know, bronze Jonas. We've got a cork in your house.
• 1:06
  Stop it. I ever hear.
• 1:09
  These delightful Fraser Gregory one of my absolute favorite is
• 1:14
  people in the entire world. We are here talking about one of
• 1:17
  his favorite artists stories. Yeah.
• 1:23
  More strange and perverse reasons the dominators right.
• 1:28
  So how you doing? I'm good, I'm good.
• 1:30
  How are you? We had a bit of a breakaway,
• 1:32
  sort of half an hour. All that, look at that.
• 1:35
  Yeah, not bad. For the dogs.
• 1:37
  I've got the log. Burner burning logs, - it's all
• 1:41
  good. It looks very inviting.
• 1:43
  I have to say, I'm okay, well, I did just have a quick conflab
• 1:47
  with my broth downstairs, and he's got a question for you.
• 1:52
  Yes, indeed. So, marks question is, how'd the
• 1:57
  quarks been, you know, a meteoric success and, you know,
• 2:02
  they weren't dashed back in like the Daleks.
• 2:05
  Yes. Which story would you insert
• 2:08
  them in and Y 0? Terror of the autons.
• 2:16
  That's a good call. My God they gonna mark it as
• 2:19
  toys. Yeah.
• 2:20
  Absolute instead of autons the master is sort of, you know, now
• 2:26
  the master of the quarks and not then, but it does sound like one
• 2:31
  of those comic strips, you know. Yeah, yes.
• 2:34
  He's he's kind of going around with them, you know, getting
• 2:36
  them to do, he's Dirty Work, sort of thing.
• 2:38
  And then obviously, at some point that have to turn on them
• 2:40
  and eat after they, join forces with the doctor, defeat the
• 2:43
  quarks, do you remember that scene when Then there's the old,
• 2:47
  haunt in the safe, doctor began to the Brigadier, look out
• 2:51
  quarks walk would be the see if it would just like transform
• 2:57
  into a quark. But mostly, you know, typically
• 3:01
  you know imaginative moment said actually they be the perfect
• 3:06
  villains for a Sarah Jane adventure.
• 3:09
  Oh yes, which I think is true and then he devised a scenario
• 3:13
  where Like Amazon boxes, they go into a warehouse and it looks
• 3:21
  like they're just full of boxes and all of a sudden the arms and
• 3:24
  the head had another spout surrounded by quarks, right?
• 3:29
  So when 20 pitch in that the big finish, but it needs to be
• 3:32
  dumped what they did do at what they did.
• 3:34
  Do a story and I were totally Daleks which turned out it was
• 3:37
  written by Chris phrase. Bid me, it was so bad.
• 3:39
  He took his name off it. Yeah, although that sucks it.
• 3:44
  Nice. I'll do.
• 3:44
  Do you think all right, that's on the right?
• 3:47
  The probably I will have you all these intros to watch.
• 3:49
  Oh, I'm pretty much writing his own version of dogs who as he
• 3:52
  goes along. Yeah, throw those intros.
• 3:55
  Those Oscars ceremonies where they're all, it just it warms my
• 3:58
  heart. Every time I hear and doing it
• 4:00
  one and to watch him, he's just having so much fun blessing.
• 4:02
  It's just a bear, rolled her eyes got my God.
• 4:07
  Like, what am I do? You know what's that?
• 4:09
  He's even more of a window when she joins us.
• 4:11
  The in know and she just goes for it.
• 4:13
  You know, it was it was B series 71 where he had a helicoptered
• 4:18
  in across every location of the season seven.
• 4:26
  Imagine living with him. Honestly, it's a frill.
• 4:29
  A minute. Should we watch episode 3 of the
• 4:34
  dominators? We should.
• 4:35
  We should, we should watch this and talk about it and say nice
• 4:38
  things okey-dokey. Well, then, if you are Willing
• 4:41
  to count as Ian. Are you certainly will be she,
• 4:43
  let's go, let's go. In five, four, three, two, one
• 4:50
  play. Now I've been thinking about
• 4:52
  question for you whilst I've been away.
• 4:55
  Oh you know but it's fun just doing in my head while sleeping.
• 5:00
  Why I know I know right that's a nice little nap there.
• 5:04
  Snuggles, lovely, why is this story?
• 5:09
  So it will regard. He'd like, where does this come
• 5:13
  from? But with certain size that
• 5:15
  underworld and time lash and yeah, I think there's a few
• 5:21
  variety of elements. I think you know there's the
• 5:23
  part of it is around sort of like the production of it, you
• 5:26
  know, the the costumes of the quarks the cost not quacks.
• 5:31
  The the Dawson's the costumes of the dominant as themselves, you
• 5:34
  know, if those draw a bit of ridicule, I think the fact that
• 5:39
  it is five parts, Possibly doesn't need to be five parts,
• 5:43
  is is another thing. A lot of people call a boring,
• 5:46
  though. That's the main sort of
• 5:50
  criticism. I hear.
• 5:52
  Well, I would say Doctor Who can survive anything, but being
• 5:55
  boring, and I think the ones I don't really enjoy and I enjoy
• 5:59
  most of it. Now, as I could even enjoy a Bad
• 6:01
  Doctor, Who is long as this camp and Cillian.
• 6:03
  Yeah. Right.
• 6:05
  And bowls, you know, and I assure us but like something
• 6:08
  light on the world where it is. Is a know you've explored
• 6:12
  underworld recently. Yes.
• 6:14
  What the TV story as well? Yeah, unfortunate the book and
• 6:17
  then I've watched the TV story and I think you know, underworld
• 6:23
  is, isn't that bad? It's not as bad as they were
• 6:26
  makes out certainly the book. If you read the book first,
• 6:28
  which is what I've done, you know, I think it's a good way to
• 6:31
  start actually, it does because it kind of takes out that
• 6:34
  element. But, you know, big elephant in
• 6:37
  the room of the CSO sets, it takes all that out of you and it
• 6:40
  works. A lot better.
• 6:41
  I like the CSO in Underworld, though.
• 6:44
  I think I mean it is pioneering. Its pioneering, it doesn't
• 6:48
  always work. It doesn't always know.
• 6:49
  I mean what they just taken that they didn't have the technical
• 6:52
  expertise? No, they won't.
• 6:53
  Absolutely trialing, I knew her face.
• 6:57
  Yeah. Methods on the floor.
• 6:59
  You know, you look at programs like Mandalorian.
• 7:03
  Oh and your could all get that all done with.
• 7:06
  There's not a single physical set in their words, all just You
• 7:09
  know, how to do it without a bath budget and those lack of
• 7:12
  resources props to them. But it's just like, I think the
• 7:15
  story's a little plodding and I think it's tasteless and not
• 7:21
  necessarily it's like, you know, you have the first episode set
• 7:24
  on the spaceship, you're crushing of the underworld, and
• 7:28
  then you have like three episodes are following that with
• 7:31
  the, The Troggs or whatever, the call them, the underground
• 7:37
  Patrol and I see ya. And kind of doing that sort of
• 7:40
  mutiny bit, but with this one, with the dominant as I think,
• 7:44
  you know, I just don't see everyone leaves on this one.
• 7:48
  I lived on this one, you know. So I mean, I think what's boring
• 7:52
  about it. That's my question, is, what's
• 7:54
  actually born about this story? I really think it has actually
• 7:57
  got a fair bit of pace as well. Yeah, I guess.
• 8:01
  Yeah. I think it's there is a lot of
• 8:03
  scenes of people's sort of standing around talking or
• 8:05
  sitting around talking. Maybe that's the problem.
• 8:09
  What's the, you know, the the scenes aren't bad scenes?
• 8:12
  These are not just like I mean the the one I was come back to
• 8:15
  is the scene in the time monster where Jon Pertwee is digging on
• 8:18
  with these wine bottle, you all that is that is a story.
• 8:24
  Go nowhere. What it is but I lost it.
• 8:27
  I still feel that scene is just still Doctor Who is literally
• 8:30
  making magic out of odds and ends.
• 8:33
  Yeah, but it's literally a man sitting at the table talking to
• 8:37
  people one of the character. Vidya is literally stood next to
• 8:41
  him saying should we not go and fight the mustard out?
• 8:44
  Should we not go and attack the vast?
• 8:46
  And to be not, should we not just going to do something?
• 8:48
  John Pertwee and drop. It was like, nope.
• 8:49
  I need to put tea leaves on the top of my spoons and spin it
• 8:52
  round and because he's trying to create a device to stop the
• 8:54
  time, distortions and all that, it's an absolute nonsense bit of
• 8:58
  Putters and it doesn't really work in it.
• 9:00
  The most egregious thing about it, is that it is all egregious.
• 9:03
  It's in the middle of an era which is run by ten sticks in
• 9:07
  ten sticks is the master Sudden rising.
• 9:09
  And whenever is surprising is that it's as sort of terrible as
• 9:14
  it is. The thing is it's noticeable.
• 9:16
  It's absolute it sticks out as you know, and it is literally
• 9:19
  because you know, part of it is because the brig is liquid.
• 9:21
  It looks like they're going. Should we move on to them for
• 9:24
  the plot? Now what it literally has a
• 9:26
  brigadier running on the spot and he said one, let's take a
• 9:29
  look because she's trying to move the plot on.
• 9:33
  That's that's the she always come back to see right.
• 9:35
  There you go. There's bad pattern.
• 9:36
  That's that's an example of where the pattern doesn't When
• 9:39
  you've got something padded in here and we're going to come to
• 9:41
  it in an episode of 2 is 10, which is the main scene.
• 9:44
  We're having argued, and argued, and argued for four episodes,
• 9:50
  while going to about actually get down to an actual
• 9:54
  confrontation. And that's that is the bit that
• 9:57
  ten sticks route. It's terrific.
• 9:59
  That's terrific you know and because it comes to a head,
• 10:03
  doesn't it? Yeah.
• 10:03
  And he calls his bluff. Yeah yeah I mean Kevin stick
• 10:07
  sputtered in two ways. You first Bleeeh would put a
• 10:09
  chase scene in, you know? Yeah.
• 10:12
  But the budgets or stick Jon Pertwee and Bessie and they'll
• 10:16
  blast around and people just always fun.
• 10:19
  It's absolutely fun. It's great fun really passes the
• 10:22
  time, you know, you get a whole episode out of it and planet of
• 10:24
  the spiders and it's marvelous, or he has arguments people argue
• 10:29
  about stuff and that's a prime example and it just, it works.
• 10:33
  You know, you're not watching it thinking arses, I don't speak
• 10:37
  and I think subjective but I don't see how People can watch a
• 10:39
  scene like that and go. Well, I'm bored.
• 10:41
  Now watching these to argue, I've often pointed at like
• 10:45
  reference books that came out in the 90s early 2000s, as having
• 10:50
  sort of concreted fan wisdom over the years.
• 10:55
  But is it a case that a story is identified as like, a weak link
• 11:00
  and then, everyone else sort of just pause on top.
• 11:02
  Like, they don't really look for the strengths.
• 11:05
  They just don't. Oh, yeah, that's the dad and we
• 11:08
  can all ripped The shit out of that one, that's an element a
• 11:12
  bit as well. I think you know obviously fun
• 11:17
  wisdom plays a part in it that You know, back in the day,
• 11:21
  someone thought it was bad. That's someone.
• 11:23
  I was fortunate enough to write the book that book was one of
• 11:28
  few resources that other fans had to, to learn about Doctor
• 11:33
  Who about seeing, especially if you haven't seen it.
• 11:36
  The first time, I owned a few in the eighties and nineties, and
• 11:38
  you haven't had the opportunity to see these stories in the, in
• 11:41
  the sixties. And the seventies that you know,
• 11:43
  these reference books are a bit of a Bible, you know, we don't
• 11:47
  have the access to other opinions that we do.
• 11:50
  That's why you don't have the internet then, do you also you
• 11:53
  don't have and you don't have podcasts and you don't have, you
• 11:56
  know. So now there's this diverse
• 11:57
  Myriad of opinion. This Multiverse of opinions
• 12:00
  about the dominators out there and if you want to go out there
• 12:03
  and find a positive and opinion. Well, there's gonna be afraid of
• 12:06
  Gregory. Their weight is totally a
• 12:07
  marvelous. This is absolutely, you know,
• 12:10
  you get the opposite as well. You're not every story that you
• 12:13
  you love, you will find someone know that will quite happily,
• 12:17
  you know, take a dump on it, but but I think, I think we're very
• 12:20
  story has been related to think about things now, aren't we like
• 12:23
  to give our unique opinion rather than to just sort of
• 12:27
  accept? Yeah, that's terrible.
• 12:29
  But I think, you know, we're we're in a better position now
• 12:32
  that where we can gnaw through podcast through Twitter through
• 12:35
  blogs as well, like your own. We're now in a better position
• 12:39
  to see. Actually, this is The received
• 12:43
  wisdom and this is why I disagree with it and why I do
• 12:46
  agree with it. And, you know, people now have
• 12:48
  more opportunities to put their opinions across For Better or
• 12:51
  Worse, you know, sort of. Otherwise I I had to put on my
• 12:55
  block at one point. Yeah.
• 12:57
  In the byline, this is a subjective opinion because
• 13:03
  people were coming at me as if I was telling everybody.
• 13:05
  This is how you must think. Well, this is it, I think, This
• 13:12
  also happens doesn't you know, you will go out and say, oh,
• 13:15
  this is brilliant, this is burning.
• 13:16
  You will get people that come back again.
• 13:18
  See, it's not. Okay, fair enough, you'll go out
• 13:20
  and you'll see. This is awful and died and risen
• 13:22
  miserable and you'll get people come back.
• 13:24
  We can see it's not again, absolutely fine what you find is
• 13:27
  it cause in our finger, goes in a bit of a cycle and you know,
• 13:32
  you have Ups and downs of popularity.
• 13:36
  So you know good, good example, something like the gun fate as
• 13:39
  where you have that is, you know, accepted fan, wisdom that
• 13:44
  has terrible story. And it goes, people think that
• 13:46
  until people actually get the chance to see it in more people
• 13:49
  get to see actually you're wrong and it gets much higher thought
• 13:54
  of but then you get something like David Tennant who starts
• 13:59
  off being really, really popular but because it's popular the
• 14:01
  popular thing then becomes. So easy as good as all.
• 14:05
  That. Yeah.
• 14:07
  So there's an element that people will be contrary because
• 14:12
  it makes them feel cool. You know, that people will
• 14:15
  think, oh well, I'm going to see that Genesis of.
• 14:16
  The Daleks is terrible because I think you and me in fact I'll
• 14:20
  dear friend Simon has thrown at both of us so we can be a bit
• 14:23
  contrary a times and it can be fun.
• 14:25
  Me saying that series 8 is better than Series 5.
• 14:28
  Yeah, be fun. Using the Dominate is as an
• 14:31
  all-conquering classic can be fun.
• 14:33
  It can be and Think, you know, I'll acknowledge that myself
• 14:36
  that there is a certain element that if you see it to me, you
• 14:39
  know, watch this, it's brilliant.
• 14:41
  It's the best story ever. You know, there's a part of me
• 14:43
  that is going to school, let's find the false.
• 14:46
  Then, you know, and if you what, if you do the opposite, if you
• 14:49
  see it to me, here you go. Watch this one, it's absolutely
• 14:52
  diabolical. Look at the effects on their
• 14:54
  rubbish. This story is just a nightmare,
• 14:56
  I'll sit, and I'll go, right. Let's pull up the positives
• 15:00
  then. So it's all.
• 15:01
  I think that's something that makes you very interesting
• 15:03
  because I think there is an element of you of like, I think
• 15:07
  like when we talked about The Temper dr.
• 15:09
  Andros. And that's okay, Dynamic.
• 15:11
  It was so popular, you know, and it's the one that everyone goes.
• 15:14
  Well, that's the best to talk to who the rest should just all be
• 15:17
  ignored and there's you sort of picking our part saying is it's
• 15:20
  got us all that. Let's look at this properly you
• 15:22
  had in the same breath. You look at something that's
• 15:25
  shat on from a great height. Like the Dominate is and I will
• 15:28
  actually look at all the really good stuff that's in there.
• 15:30
  I think you can. You can do, but, it's different,
• 15:33
  sorry, sir. Example, on if there's
• 15:35
  different, what you do is different from, like somebody,
• 15:40
  creating a Twitter account and, you know, visibly hacking
• 15:44
  people's threads, just to go Jody Whitaker's, you know the
• 15:48
  worst thing ever to happen in Doctor Who, you know, because
• 15:51
  what you're doing is stimulating conversation, and you're
• 15:55
  encouraging, the person's talk back and say, well, why do you
• 15:58
  think that? Yeah, that's that's very kind of
• 16:02
  it this year thing. Now you're very welcome.
• 16:04
  But not, this is why you are whoring yourself out and all the
• 16:07
  other podcast because you're very good at this, you know, do
• 16:10
  me best and but not that there's absolutely calling you a whore.
• 16:13
  Sorry, that there's absolute truth in that is that, you know,
• 16:19
  people do get attention from being - that people whose people
• 16:25
  will go out out of the way to find mention of Jodie, Whittaker
• 16:31
  and see, Chris chibnall. And you know, say something -
• 16:36
  because the know that they are going to get a response, it's
• 16:39
  Colin basically it's you know, I'll see, it's a bit bad.
• 16:43
  I'll get the attention to that because then someone's going to
• 16:46
  come out as 45 people come at those and I'll have an afternoon
• 16:49
  of human interaction or but yet people, you know, Slayton as and
• 16:53
  whatnot. So there is that, that that kind
• 16:56
  of element to it but I think you know, You can be critical but
• 17:03
  you can also be fair and and positive as well.
• 17:06
  Or you can just do what me me grandma is to see.
• 17:09
  And if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
• 17:13
  Yeah, you know, but I think, you know, if you look at where your
• 17:16
  pupils do, have a right to my opinion, people do have the
• 17:18
  right to see. Actually I don't enjoy this, I
• 17:20
  don't enjoy, I haven't enjoyed this era and acai heart will
• 17:25
  always say that, you know, Peter Capaldi's the about was his
• 17:27
  least favorite here at. But in that That's fair enough.
• 17:31
  You know, we're all going to have ones which we favor above
• 17:33
  the others. As long as you know, were
• 17:36
  respectful of everyone's opinion of seeing.
• 17:38
  Well okay, you've said that, I disagree, how am I going to
• 17:43
  express that to your? Am I going to just come steaming
• 17:45
  in with you know, two short sentences or am I actually going
• 17:48
  to try and help to make bit more nuanced with you about it?
• 17:52
  You know, one of the worst I think is is it's not even, you
• 17:55
  know, those Travelers, it's the the Sheep.
• 18:00
  Otherwise I really do like and I used to be that person because I
• 18:03
  used to say, to, to my ex-husband.
• 18:05
  Oh, everybody's saying that about this and he'd go, oh
• 18:09
  really, who's everybody? Yeah.
• 18:11
  You know, they're all saying it. So who's Bay?
• 18:14
  You know, and you kind of take this sort of collective opinion
• 18:17
  and just make it your own. It's a sort of person that
• 18:20
  reads, you know, an article in the Daily Mail and then think
• 18:24
  they're the expert on that topic and stuff.
• 18:29
  How many How many marketing experts have had in the last few
• 18:32
  years? Yeah.
• 18:34
  How many experts on Pirates and script, editing, and special
• 18:37
  effects in CS or if we had over the last year and a bit and
• 18:42
  whatnot. But like I say it's fine, it's
• 18:44
  all subjective. That's your opinion, you know?
• 18:46
  Remember, that's your opinion better.
• 18:49
  I make them better. That mean that my opinion is
• 18:51
  different, but also bear in mind that, you know, something I love
• 18:55
  if you're going to come and attack it, it's You know, it's
• 18:59
  likely to cause a bit of upset, you know.
• 19:01
  If you're gonna come at someone say, oh this thing that you've
• 19:04
  just, you know, random. I don't think really think I
• 19:06
  will have any peripheral awareness.
• 19:08
  How you're feeling though? So thank you.
• 19:11
  And again, you know what, I think what I think difficult is,
• 19:14
  is when people are expressing a negative opinion is to kind of
• 19:17
  back away from that, because my instinct is always to say, well,
• 19:20
  I love this. So this is why, but I can have
• 19:22
  the same effect because you're like then, well, why are you
• 19:24
  attacking me for this? Why am I not allowed to not like
• 19:27
  this? Why can't I just Like what
• 19:29
  dominators is dull and boring and rubbishing, why do you then
• 19:32
  have to come Steam and in with golf got their golf Quark gifts
• 19:36
  and in and all the rest of it is like yeah that's a really good
• 19:39
  point. Is that if you don't like it you
• 19:40
  don't like it. What's weird?
• 19:42
  Is that sort of, that determination to crush some, the
• 19:46
  x is in Yin. Yeah.
• 19:47
  And it's like, you're never gonna change my opinion.
• 19:50
  Why are you doing this? You're just making me feel bad
• 19:54
  and you come across as a superior class.
• 19:58
  Yeah, I mean, it's going back to what we should be talking about
• 20:01
  the, the dominators. We've got the see.
• 20:03
  Now how this thing goes sometimes?
• 20:06
  You know, we've seen them now in the council women are sitting
• 20:10
  around, you know, debating about it.
• 20:12
  And yeah you might think people could look at this and go
• 20:14
  glasses, this is boring. But this really speaks to me of
• 20:17
  this aside again coming back to this this hubris of this Society
• 20:21
  to say well all look and do because all the can do is sit
• 20:24
  around and talk about stuff and that's why That's the sort of
• 20:29
  message that the right guys are going for is, you know, this
• 20:33
  Society thinks. It's so enlightened because of,
• 20:36
  you know, trucked away weapons and and whatnot but look where
• 20:39
  it's ended them up in the face of a catastrophe.
• 20:42
  You know it was Brian, can't the actual director Secretary of
• 20:49
  State for emergencies and he's going to come in and give them
• 20:52
  the three options, which is basically one away, fight or sit
• 20:55
  and do nothing and Orbach and Because the haven't got anything
• 20:59
  else to do is sit and do nothing.
• 21:02
  But it's the way it's played out is I think is what happens is
• 21:06
  the Dominator just walks in. Yeah, there's no resistance
• 21:09
  interesting scene and take the core kills one person, they're
• 21:12
  like yeah, fuck was screwed because we have literally got
• 21:16
  nothing else. We can do with got no defense
• 21:18
  against this because we've given away all our defense
• 21:20
  essentially. That's that's really the The
• 21:25
  message that Lincoln in his mentor goon for.
• 21:27
  I think it's really, we kind of talked all over at the beginning
• 21:31
  of this episode, but it's really portrayed when the doctor comes
• 21:34
  in and says, you are gonna be invaded, you need to get up off
• 21:38
  your asses yet fight these people because that's what guy
• 21:41
  that's his approach and they're all sitting around going.
• 21:44
  Well, we could, we could have a meeting about that in three
• 21:47
  weeks time. You know, when we discuss the
• 21:50
  refreshments, Look, we're gonna sell these things, you know, we
• 21:58
  don't get out there and get marketing.
• 22:01
  Well, you know what? We need to talk about the logo
• 22:03
  for the next ten years, you know?
• 22:04
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know we've all been there
• 22:07
  saying okay leave it with us and it needs to go to, you know, the
• 22:10
  next level up and they need to sign off on it and he needs to
• 22:12
  come back. And you think like that's three
• 22:14
  or four weeks of a decision where if you'd made it.
• 22:17
  Now if you just went and said, do I put the other waste that we
• 22:24
  need to look at? The thals well, quite yet
• 22:27
  because the thals are very much the same in the Daleks, and the
• 22:32
  first, the same message, isn't it?
• 22:34
  Yeah, yeah, because I think it's not the message here is pacifism
• 22:39
  is Bad. That's the message.
• 22:43
  Yes, the message there is no no, yes, kind of the same, is it?
• 22:46
  Yeah. They're saying you have to take
• 22:48
  up arms sometimes in order to do but I think protect yourselves.
• 22:52
  It's interesting that you know, the thals get a pass because the
• 22:56
  Dougal and fake the Daleks eventually the dog, the door
• 22:58
  seems don't because essentially the, they don't, you know, they
• 23:02
  actually incapable of part from kully who's now turning.
• 23:05
  And he's, he's got that sort of ramie.
• 23:08
  Sweat on a mousy is becoming Bruce Willis romantic.
• 23:10
  Here. Oh yeah.
• 23:12
  Give him a bandana on a machine gun.
• 23:14
  Then he'll be fine. You don't no one complained that
• 23:16
  Bruce Willis was a bald. And once, even seeing everyone
• 23:19
  go, if you'll forgive me, I think the Morality In the Daleks
• 23:22
  is more black and white than the dominators because it's very
• 23:27
  clear. Yeah.
• 23:28
  In the story, you know, they don't do this, yes.
• 23:32
  They should do this and then it has a positive outcome whereas
• 23:35
  that does work. It, I think it's more black and
• 23:38
  white but Morality In the Daleks has a lot more to And for me
• 23:41
  because essentially the doctor and the Ian Force, the thals in
• 23:46
  the Phaeton and their lot of them died for no other reason
• 23:50
  than to get the doctor spark, plug back.
• 23:53
  Well, I do think the Daleks were planning on coming out and
• 23:56
  murdering them all, as well. They do the third order.
• 23:58
  This point do what? Theodore, no.
• 24:00
  This at this point, the dollar plan of well, actually, you
• 24:03
  know, the Daleks don't even think of this themselves.
• 24:05
  Until they got the Thule drug. And realize actually, we are so
• 24:07
  reliant on radiation that the best thing for us is to Flood
• 24:11
  the planet with radiation again. Then what would come out of the
• 24:12
  city and take over? Blah blah blah blah will destroy
• 24:14
  the thals but here for such as life, I mean, I am troubling.
• 24:17
  I think it's more interesting. Yeah, well it's froze that shade
• 24:21
  on our regulars and we're like, yeah, this right?
• 24:24
  It's it's something that we're really forget that in the very
• 24:26
  second story, you know, Ian literally is going to drag it
• 24:32
  down here. Yeah, Diana.
• 24:34
  Yeah, you know, away just to get a reaction to that they will
• 24:37
  then fate. But the only reason at this
• 24:39
  point in the story that they are, Fight is to get the idea
• 24:42
  that because Poppycocks would you know what that you've just
• 24:45
  highlight something brilliant there though because that's the
• 24:46
  sort of sophisticated and sort of morally ambiguous
• 24:50
  characterization that's going on in the day there's none of that.
• 24:54
  Here it is. There like in trout was time.
• 24:56
  We ditched a lot of that. I think it's more subtle here.
• 25:00
  I think it's there, it's very subtle.
• 25:03
  It's more subtle. Notice it.
• 25:04
  That's our far away or I think, you know, at that time we don't
• 25:07
  really know where the characters are Landon.
• 25:10
  And, you know, it's a brand new series, you know, we know we've
• 25:13
  got this here but it's very antihero.
• 25:15
  This, at this point, your couple of weeks later earlier, he was
• 25:18
  willing to Brave caveman on the head, with a rock to get back to
• 25:22
  the ship, you know? So you haven't, we haven't
• 25:24
  really settled on the dr. Bean, as this sort of champion
• 25:29
  of the wronged as it were, you know, he is just very much a man
• 25:33
  trying to survive. Dr. Is called out on the choices
• 25:37
  that he makes worse. I do think troughton's doctor
• 25:39
  is, I don't think the Is all strong enough to say, like, in
• 25:43
  the theatre death he goes around.
• 25:44
  Murdering a load of ice water hose and nobody says to him.
• 25:47
  No one. Should you have done that?
• 25:49
  Well, no, he's if you look at him, he's a lot more money
• 25:53
  manipulative, and yeah, you would, you would think I always
• 25:57
  look at. Matt Smith has been a
• 25:58
  combination of the second and seventh doctors because he's
• 26:02
  also got that that skill of being Charming.
• 26:06
  Disarming the wacky and childish hopefulness, Hunt.
• 26:10
  But underneath, there's a lot of neither, what I find that we're
• 26:15
  trying on clothes are turning. Matt Smith is, it's actually
• 26:19
  very deceptive because they saw play up this childlike.
• 26:23
  Exuberance. Yeah and they're capable of
• 26:26
  doing really terrible. What are you know Solomon is
• 26:29
  appalling yein dinosaurs on a spaceship.
• 26:32
  Should the doctor be able to say no?
• 26:34
  Do you know what you deserve to die and walk away?
• 26:37
  I don't know. It's like I don't know, you know
• 26:40
  I think it's Interesting. That with that one, I think, you
• 26:42
  know, the doctor gets pushed too far.
• 26:44
  You know, Solomon pushes them and pushes.
• 26:46
  It's not just like Solomon is a bad man.
• 26:48
  The end Solomon is a bad man who continues to do bad things and
• 26:52
  bad things and bad things to the doctor.
• 26:54
  So you're the doctor knows soon as he meets them.
• 26:57
  The stomach fishy here, and it turns out.
• 26:59
  Yes. He's literally killed thousands
• 27:02
  of solutions. One by one by, you know, I
• 27:06
  checked them from their dog, then he shoots brine, then he
• 27:09
  kills the Triceratops. Then he, you know, threatens
• 27:11
  rape to Nefertiti. It's just an escalation.
• 27:15
  So you get to that kind of, you know, go he's Lonesome he yeah,
• 27:19
  I think like quitting creative terms.
• 27:21
  He deserves to die is it should have be the doctor that has a
• 27:25
  choice. Yeah.
• 27:26
  Delivers that blood or is I think it gets to that point
• 27:29
  where it's you know and it would have been nice that it would
• 27:32
  make it a bit more explicit that the doctor has been pushed and
• 27:35
  pushed and pushed to the point where it does something that you
• 27:37
  shouldn't do because of how far It's been pushed but coming back
• 27:43
  to Trenton you know you see this in the end of the ice Warriors
• 27:47
  you see you know the wall stood around eventually school and
• 27:51
  well we need to fire up the ionizer and zap the ship.
• 27:56
  What do we do doctor? And the doctor says, well, don't
• 27:57
  ask me, it's your choice, you know?
• 27:59
  It's like I think the ice whereas is one of the rare times
• 28:02
  and try outside where they really focus on character first
• 28:06
  above plot of monsters and they're doing a bit.
• 28:08
  So it's a bit more interviews. He's got a whole sort of Store.
• 28:11
  Pending haven't you? Yeah.
• 28:13
  And clean on the other side. Yeah but going back to the
• 28:16
  Daleks quickly. You've got a clear definition of
• 28:20
  two sets of regulars, either side of the argument and they
• 28:23
  battle it out. They could have done that here
• 28:27
  because you've got have got Zoe who's a bit, enlightened from
• 28:30
  the future. And you've got James a Warrior
• 28:33
  from the past and that might have been a really interesting
• 28:36
  discussion to have. It would have been, yeah, I
• 28:38
  think Did the interesting thing about the truck near as well as
• 28:43
  how flat the team structure is as well.
• 28:46
  Only, you're pulling out a Whitaker reference, there I am.
• 28:49
  Yes, you know, if you look at the first DOC, that's very much,
• 28:53
  you know, I'm in charge Susan's, the granddaughter, you know,
• 28:57
  there was a co-ops, your bottom. Yes.
• 29:01
  Thought about troubling listen. Yeah, yeah, you know, and that
• 29:05
  kind of leads as well with in like Vicki as being the younger
• 29:09
  in the doctor who nailed A character and you look put we
• 29:12
  put we use so much in charges. Unbelievable and then again with
• 29:19
  the fourth doctor is always the one that's you're pulling the
• 29:22
  strings blah blah. You come with the second doctor
• 29:25
  and especially with this team especially with them Zoe and and
• 29:30
  Jamie they are able to influence him a lot more than any.
• 29:35
  Companion is able to influence. Any other doctor?
• 29:38
  Classic got father's. Well, we gotta go.
• 29:40
  Oh, Oh right. Yeah I mean look at the Mind
• 29:45
  rubber part 1 you know the Tardis is getting in is
• 29:48
  swallowed by lava and it's Jamie and Zoe will ignore you need to
• 29:53
  do some it will can't just write this out.
• 29:54
  You're going to have to, you know, well, it's when they're
• 29:57
  they're outside the Tardis beckoning him out and he's no,
• 30:00
  no, I won't leave under any circumstances.
• 30:02
  I'll God, my friends are in danger.
• 30:04
  I'm going. Yes.
• 30:06
  Well, you know, you can't imagine any other doctor where,
• 30:09
  you know, you can imagine it drill granted.
• 30:10
  And to put your doctor you need a, you know, ejectors from this
• 30:14
  reality in, you know, it just wouldn't fly.
• 30:17
  It's only really this one where the have that sort of influence
• 30:21
  on him, but I don't know. I do want to point at the
• 30:23
  dominators and say the characterization isn't as fist
• 30:27
  cated as the Daleks, I don't think this era is as
• 30:31
  sophisticated in terms of character as the William
• 30:34
  Hartnell years. I think there's more distinct
• 30:36
  personalities working and the Dynamics of just very different
• 30:40
  you're That generally always pulling in the same direction
• 30:43
  they talked to Jamie and Zoe. Yeah, they're trying to defeat
• 30:46
  the monsters or bring down the villain or do whatever.
• 30:48
  They're trying to do. You know, and I don't think you
• 30:52
  miss it because I have never missed it until we've had this
• 30:56
  conversation and I'm going oh oh actually maybe that would have
• 30:59
  been quite interesting. Here it does make you think done
• 31:01
  it? It's another what if yeah you
• 31:04
  know I'm truly hoping I'm glad that quick is in that box out
• 31:06
  there because I just saw a dominate Quark in peace.
• 31:10
  Pieces with smoking legs, a little ball, right?
• 31:14
  About in the Quarry? Yeah, absolutely a problem.
• 31:18
  Well, he shouted something to me from the corridor.
• 31:21
  Now, I've had enough. What's, what do you want to tell
• 31:26
  us about this time at y? If you thought the last one was
• 31:29
  Swanky. Listen to this.
• 31:31
  I mean this sounds like absolutely delightful.
• 31:34
  So he's recalling a particularly harrowing time when he was
• 31:37
  attacked by a terrifying water pistols.
• 31:40
  So, whilst being hidden away in one of the celestial toymakers
• 31:44
  toys, being utilized by the tree must Master.
• 31:49
  Yes. That is a story that in fact
• 31:51
  does exist. The tree was small stuff with
• 31:58
  the celestial toymaker toy, the turns out to be a cork.
• 32:03
  I mean I'm I'm with it because you know quark and the toymaker
• 32:08
  goes well together, it's just you're bringing the tree must
• 32:11
  muster and is that? Yeah that's is It's just the big
• 32:15
  finish grunting. No, no that's not that's it.
• 32:17
  That's a comic strip. But I don't understand some of
• 32:21
  those comic strips, you know, right.
• 32:22
  When you're a child and you get an exercise book and you start
• 32:26
  scribbling away Doctor Who Adventure, full of all of your
• 32:28
  favorite elements that just might have just pulled a couple
• 32:31
  of exercise books of kids and went.
• 32:32
  Right. Let's go with it.
• 32:34
  Yeah, because that's kind of what that sounds like that it
• 32:36
  then the other one would be 0 g and all that.
• 32:39
  Yeah, well it froze up, we did talk about too much about The
• 32:42
  Dominoes and that one but I do forgive us.
• 32:44
  Some interesting discussion there, I think there was, I
• 32:47
  think it was her. Will ya try and talk a bit more
• 32:49
  about them in episode 4? I'm absolutely desperate to do.
• 32:52
  So I do believe you've put something out on Twitter.
• 32:55
  You know, if you had any responses, let me have a look.
• 33:01
  Was he go on? Okay.
• 33:02
  Well, you have to look at that and fire it at me or I'll follow
• 33:06
  you wherever in episode 44.