Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / House Investigators Grapple With Sarah Kellen’s Role in Epstein’s Operation (5/11/26)

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House Investigators Grapple With Sarah Kellen’s Role in Epstein’s Operation (5/11/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

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Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
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Epstein Chronicles. As Congress continues to make its way through
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the Epstein scandal, one of the challenges that they're facing,
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at least in their mind, is figuring out who is
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a victim and who isn't. And I think that people
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like Anna Paulina Luna have caused a lot of confusion
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when it comes to this debate, because there's no doubt
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that Epstein had female enablers surrounding them that were helping them.
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But when Anna Paulina Luna comes out and says that
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some of those people were at the congressional hearing, she's wrong.
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None of those people that were the core four, the
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actual female enablers, were at the hearing, and none of
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the Core four besides Nadia Marson Covid maybe should be
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looked at as victims, at least not my opinion. They
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were all adults, they all knew what was going on,
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and they could have went to the police at any time.
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Whereas Nadia, she was a child, she was brought into
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this environment, she was groomed, it was all normalized, and
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then she was abused. And then not only that, but
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we saw from the documents that she was cooperating with
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the police behind the scenes. So I think that if
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we're going to have the discussion about the Core four,
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then I think Nadia marsen Kova has to be looked
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at in a different light, at least in my opinion,
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because the circumstances surrounding what she was up to with
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Epstein in his orbit are a lot different than the
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other three ladies, And I think that distinction matters. Right,
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if you're a child and you're brought into an environment
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and everybody around you is selling drugs and you get
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put on the corner as a corner boy, you think
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that's normal. Everybody around you does it? My uncle Johnny
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put me out here. What are you talking about? And
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if those kids get caught, did they get charged as adults?
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Of course they don't write because their children. And while
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the situation with Nadia is not, you know, apples to apples,
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I do think that her situation, her role deserves a
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much more or nuanced look than the other grown women
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who did this because they liked the lifestyle, because it
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was to their personal benefit, because they were able to
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marry NASCAR drivers. So today we have an article from
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Politico and the headline Congress Epstein probe raises a thorny
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question who counts as a victim? This article was authored
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by Haley Fuchs and Erica Orden. Nearly a year after
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the launch of the House Oversight Committees Jeffrey Epstein investigation,
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lawmakers are now waiting into a thorny debate over whether
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certain women in Epstein's orbit should be considered co conspirators
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or victims. And I think the debate's valid, right. I
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think it's a good idea for Congress to get to
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familiarize themselves with all the people that were involved and
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what their roles were. But unfortunately, I don't trust people
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like Anna Paulina Luna to do the right thing. She's
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more interested in sound bites and narratives. Right. A publican
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led panel eager to haul in witnesses who can shed
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new light on the convicted sex offenders crimes, appears to
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have taken aside, and recently asking Sarah Kellen, a top
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assistant to the late disgraced Finance Here, to sit for
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a transcribed interview on May twenty first, how about you
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just bring the whole core four in and furthermore before
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you do that. Why don't we have the DOJ get
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rid of the NPA and then let's see how quick
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the core four want to talk because a lot of
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them feel like they're protected. They were named in that
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you know, non prosecution agreement, so they do have a
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level of protection down in Florida without a doubt. But
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if that NPA was to go away, if that NPA
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was to be destroyed due to the fact that Epstein
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was in dereliction of it, well that certainly changes the conversation,
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doesn't it. Kellen was one of four women named as
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possible co conspirators and then now controversial two thousand and
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seven agreement with Florida federal prosecutors that granted all of
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them immunity while also allowing Epstein to spend minimal time
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in a county jail rather than face federal sex trafficking charges.
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One of the biggest corrupt deals in the history of
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corrupt deals. There's a list of four alleged victims that
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took plea deals that I think are co conspirators and
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got let off the hook. Anna Paulina Luna, a member
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of the Oversight Committee, said recently, and I'd like to
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bring them in. Well, that's a good idea, But how
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about you stop maligning the other people, Like calling Haley
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Robson a human trafficker is beyond the pill. Now, if
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you want to talk about her bringing girls to Jeffrey
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Epstein when she was a little girl herself cool, I
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get it, certainly part of the conversation. But you know
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what she did that these co conspirators didn't do. She
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had humility. She went and talked to the police, told
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them her role, told them all about what happened, told
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them what she knew. Meanwhile, Sarah Kell and Vickers continued
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to live the high life, going so far as to
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marry a dude that drove for NASCAR. But yeah, she's
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a big time victim. Noticed she never went to the
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police in the aftermath, never sat down and said, hey, look,
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this is the deal. Or how about when Epstein was
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arrested the first time, patiently waited for him to get
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back out right, Oh, Jeffy, I love you. If you're
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an adult female and you're recruiting underage girls, you're not
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a victim. You're a prostitute, a child predator, and a
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sex trafficker, said Representative Nancy Mace. Another committee member in
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an interview. Certainly the adult women that were recruiting underage
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girls should go to jail Bingo one hundred, not even
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a question. And you see how Nancy Mace was very
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specific here to say women that were over age that
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were caught trafficking, because that distinction is important. It helps
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lessen the confusion. But one thing's for damn sure. The
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core four were integral to what Jeffrey Epstein was doing,
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and every single one of them should have to answer
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for it. But few of Epstein's former associates have proven
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as fraud a subject for federal prosecutors as Kellen. In
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the immediate aftermath of the Epstein suicide, allegedly while awaiting
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trial on sex trafficking charges in twenty nineteen, federal officials
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grapple with the question of whether to prosecute Kellen. According
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to two people familiar with the matter, as well as
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documents released in the Epstein files, they didn't prosecute her
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because they wanted to manage the blast radius. That's the
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whole reason. If they prosecuted her, they had to prosecute
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everybody else, So of course they decided not to. Look,
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this isn't some grand puzzle that we're trying to figure
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out here. When you get down into the nuts and
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the bolts and you start looking at the forest through
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the trees, you see what's going on. The files show
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that Manhattan prosecutors discussed a possible witness tampering charge for Kellen,
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and that they submitted a prosecution memo concerning her to
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the then US Attorney Jeffrey Berman, but Kellen argued that
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she was a victim. According to the files and people
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familiar with the deliberations, who like others, were granted anonymity
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to share private conversations, prosecutors opted to not bring a
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case against her. With all that information, with the judge
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even saying that Kellen was part of it, why do
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you think they didn't charge her? Do you think that
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they would have let you off? I highly doubt it.
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But when you're trying to contain the narrative, trying to
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contain the blast radius, you're going to make prosecutorial decisions
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that don't expand the investigation. And that's what we saw
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time and time again. A lawyer for Kellen did not
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respond to a request for comment for the Story. House
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Oversight chair James Comer said in an interview that several
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GOP women on his committee were eager to have Kellen testify,
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and he has deferred to them in deciding which women
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should be invited to give statements in the Epstein probe.
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Oh give me a break, dude, show some courage. All
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of a sudden, James Comer is the great champion of women.
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What a clown, What an absolute clown. But while some
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members of Congress support the decision to bring in Kellen,
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others are also signaling they too, recognize the complicated dynamics
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of questioning a woman who claims to have been sexually abused.
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For folks who are not trauma informed and folks who
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don't understand this world, I think it can be easy
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to say, yes, we should charge this woman, said Representative
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Latifa Simon. Who are you? By the way, Latifa Simon,
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who sits on the panel and previously worked in the
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San Francisco District Attorney's office, is that like a resume
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booster San Franz an absolute chitthole. It's a conversation that
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should be taken seriously. So this lady has no idea
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what he's talking about. Okay, And frankly, if anyone doesn't
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understand this world, it's her. When you have this many
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people that come out and play Sarah Kellen as not
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only someone that was operational, but somebody that participated in
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the abuse, you probably should listen to what people are saying.
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Simon added that she's been providing Committee staff with resources
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on how we look at how we treat and support
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survivors while they're coming here, how to look at women
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who historically have been in these situations. At the same time,
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the Committee is under increasing pressure to surface new information
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after the Justice departments haphazard release of the Epstein files,
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and as law enforcement in the UK has seized on
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opportunities to arrest Epstein associates in contrast to the US
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and the continued finger wagging. In the interview last month,
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Comer blamed the committee's lack of progress in part on
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disagreements about who is and who isn't an Epstein victim.
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That is honestly one of the reasons why there's been
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issues getting documents released. Documents and some of the victims say,
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oh my gosh, you didn't redact the names. Well, there
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were victimized, Comer said, like they recruited other girls to
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come in. But they I do believe were victimized. This
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is a tough issue. Well, because you're victimized doesn't give
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you the providence to victimize others, especially as an adult.
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There has to be some self providence, right, some self responsibility,
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And if you're an adult, you know what you're doing
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is wrong. Sarah Kellen Vickers knew what she was doing
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was wrong. Adriana Ross knew what she was doing, and
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she knew what was wrong, and so did Leslie Groff.
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You know, the real victims are here, them little girls
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from Palm Beach High School. Those are the victims, not
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the people who facilitated it. Kellen had been accused in
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numerous civil lawsuits as scheduling young girls to give Epstein massages,
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with one lawsuit dubbing her the Lieutenant and Palm Beach,
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where police investigated Epstein, girls told detectives that Kellen would
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prepare rooms for the massages, laying out tables and lotions
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intended for their use. But when prosecutors were mulling charges,
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Kellen's attorneys argued that their client was abused, writing that
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given the fact that we see her basically as a cogen,
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Epstein's Wheel, acting entirely at his direction and doing what
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she did at a time that she herself was in
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a very vulnerable victim. A non prosecution agreement would be
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the appropriate disposition. Noah wouldn't. Sorry, So should Glenn Maxwell
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be given the same kind of runway? Is Glenn Maxwell
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just a victim? Too? Is that what we're doing here?
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I guess Leon Black's just a victim. And you know what,
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while we're at it, I guess Prince Andrew's a victim.
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In an interview with The Sun published around the period
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of twenty twenty, in which her lawyers were attempting defend
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off potential charges, Kellen also describes herself as a victim,
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saying that she was raped and abused weekly. During the
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sentencing in twenty twenty two of Epstein's only convicted co conspirator,
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Glenn Maxwell, US district Judge Alison Nathan described Kellen as
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a knowing participant in the criminal conspiracy. The judge said
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that during the trial, Oh what you thought? I was
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making that up? No, She's been called a co conspirator
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an open court, So I don't want to hear all
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this bs. Okay, save the bs. Lauren Hirsch a former
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sex trafficking prosecutor in Brooklyn who's now the CEO of
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World Without Exploitation, a coalition combating human trafficking and sexual exploitation,
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said situations like Kellen's are really common. The oversight panels,
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she suggested, would be better served by focusing on those
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who could conceivably be considered a victim of Epstein instead
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of trickier cases like Kellen's. Kellen should be looked at
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as a co conspirator. Okay, she benefited greatly from what
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was going on, money, prestige, power, the whole thing. There
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are a lot of people where it's absolutely clear cut
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that they should be brought in, Hirsch said of Epstein's sootiates.
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So let's start there. Another person who has no idea
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what he's talking about, breaking news. Sarah Kellen is one
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of those associates. Representative Thomas Massey, one of the GOP's
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most vocal proponents of Congress using all available tools to
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bring Epstein's co conspirators to account, had a similar perspective.
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Asked how one could determine whether someone like Kelen is
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a victim or a perpetrator of Massy said, I don't
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think you're going to figure that out in the forum
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that the Oversight Committee has. I think you need to
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have an investigation with discovery and presentation at the serial
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presentation of facts in a courtroom to decide that matters
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of guilt or innocence. And he's correct about that. There's
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only one problem the NPA. That shit is the monkey
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in the wrench. Some members of the House Overside Committee
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who worked as or with prosecutors prior to serving in
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Congress also cautioned it was important to tread carefully. I've
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prosecuted cases where someone's been a victim and has also
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been charged with a crime, and that's something that in
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the due course of justice, a court or jerry can determine.
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Those types of factors can be considered, said Wesley Bell,
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a former Saint Louis County prosecuting attorney. Hey, Wesley, how
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many scumbags did you release back into the streets and
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how many of them went on to reoffend? Worry a
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little bit more about that, But he added, given the
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circumstances at this point in time, anyone connected with the
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investigation should be called in. Well, that's fair and it's true.
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How are we going to figure anything out if we
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don't have a real investigation. Other lawmakers defended the panel's
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decision to call in Kellen. Representative Melanie Stansbury, a member
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of the Oversight Committee, said that since the committee's ultimate
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goal was to support future trials of co conspirators and
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build an evidentary basis, it made sense to interview Kellen.
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Folks like Sarah Kellen were complicit in crimes, Stansbury said,
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Were they also victimized by Epstein? Very likely that was
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his pattern of abuse. But does that absolve them from
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culpability in the case. I think it depends on the
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specifics and the individual and that's why DOJ's investigation and
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investigation and prosecution of these individuals is really important. And look,
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I agree with that one thousand percent, super important. And
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that's all I've ever called for, a real robust investigation
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and to everybody involved. But here's the rub. Does anyone
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trust the DOJ to do that? I know I don't,
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So that's why I say we need a special council.
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And you notice nobody's talking about that yet, but they
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will be. That'll be the next step when things continue
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to go south and the DOJ continues to break the
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law and not be fully transparent. When it comes to Epstein,
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you're going to start hearing people call for a special council,
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and I think issues like this one are going to
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be a deciding factor. So we'll keep an eye on things,
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and when we have some progress one way or the other,
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we'll get it added to the catalog. All of the
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information that goose with this episode can be found in
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the description box.