Latest / Outside the Box Education Podcast / Why a Teacher Chose Homeschooling (And What She Learned) » with Genevieve Arnold
Transcript
- Outside the Box Education: Welcome to Outside the Box Education Podcast, where we believe education was never meant to be a one size fits all. I'm your host, Melissa Whitaker. Whether you're homeschooling, considering homeschooling, or simply looking for a better way to educate your children, you're in the right place. Together we'll explore how to homeschool with confidence, let go of the pressure to do it perfectly, and create an education that truly fits your family. So take a deep breath, think outside the box, and let's learn together. We would like to welcome Genevieve Arnold. Thank you so much for coming to Outside the Box Education Podcast. We're so happy to have you. Tell me a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your family. Well, I have a 16 year old stepdaughter that I have been blessed to be able to homeschool for the last eight years. I got married later in life, so I got married at 45, and luckily for me, my husband was very on board for homeschooling. And so I was able to start homeschooling in earnest. And actually before then I was also helping my sister and I have a a nephew who actually just graduated from high school and he homeschooled from I think it's third grade up until graduation. And then I babysat my niece, him and my niece, basically from the day she was born. So for five years. And I was able to help homeschool her and I guess technically when she was younger we were more just having a lot of fun. But she's homeschooling now in earnest and I am from Washington State and from Tacoma, Washington and my family and I picked up and moved about two and a half years ago, to a tiny little town in southwest Missouri in the Ozarks. And so now I help my sister homeschool did you know, via Zoom and such and when I can. I'm hoping I'm trying to talk her into sending my niece out to spend part of the year here and so then I get to homeschool her in person. So fingers crossed on that. But my homeschooling journey began before I was even married, but we can talk about that in a little bit. But that's the basis of what happens in our homes. So and we are, you know traditional hundred percent homeschoolers, we don't use any like K twelve or anything like that. We just figure it out as we go. Okay. So you're so you're homeschooling one at home and then still kind of participating in the home school over Zoom, that kind of thing? Yeah. My sister was pretty bummed when we moved and so she I was just on the on the phone with her the other day planning out the year for my niece and I'm actually r really proud of her because she's a a single mom and she makes it work. So Yeah. I think that's pretty exciting. I actually have a a much longer story about being involved in homeschooling and it it started well before I met my husband. So did you wanna go ahead and jump into that? Yeah, go for it. Tell me. Tell me all about it. Well, I went to school at BYU and I have always loved history and so I knew I wanted to study history but I didn't know what I wanted to do with it. And so I was thinking about being a teacher and one day I'm sitting in my apartment and I'm watching the Disney Teacher of the Year Awards show and I just started bawling my eyes out and I said, I need to be a teacher So I had a real strong, you know, understanding that that was my Direction. That was my mission. And so I went ahead and I got a degree in history, secondary education. And after that I also got more endorsements. So I have I mean I could you know officially if I'm in public school, I could teach like English and social studies and all that. But I graduated and I moved back home and my first job was a job at a private school for gifted kids. And that was an amazing experience. But only because of the kids. The administration was a nightmare and it it was very defeating in many ways. But the school was really built on like educational freedom and these kids wanted to be there. Like they came as I always said they came as like little refugees from public school experiences because they were, you know, very typically gifted, which meant that they came with, you know attention deficit disorders and some, you know, autism and things, but they wanted to learn and so we had so much fun. And I was able to just, you know, live out the things that I wanted to do as well. You know, we had I mem we had a medieval festival one time and we had like roaming madrigal singers and we had this table that went down the length of the gym and like the kids had all for lunch and I'm sitting at the head of those table looking at these kids and they had all brought their medieval lunches and their like turkey legs and you know wooden platters. I mean they just got into it and I just looking down this table and I'm like, this makes me so incredibly happy. Like I just loved it. But it was not sustainable with the way that the school was run. And so I moved on and I got another job as a gifted a teacher in another school and it actually wasn't any better with the administration. And so I was kind of confused. Like I knew I s I'm supposed to be a teacher, but I'm not finding my place. And in the meantime I al actually had like at church and in my life I had a lot of homeschooling friends. My best friend had seven kids and she homeschooled them all. And so I was able to see homeschooling up close for a while. And some things happened. I looked and looked for a job over this course of a summer and nothing was happening and I you know, I was trying really hard and I thought, you know, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And my homeschooling friends, specifically my best friend, her husband, he would hire people to help his wife homeschool. And so he really wanted me to be helping them and I'm like, What you know, I'm a public school teacher. But I couldn't find a job and then come September I was substituting and some things happened in our family and my my brother died. My brother is killed. And it forced me to take a step back and look at what I was doing with my life and I wasn't, you know, happy with the direction that things were going. And so I I didn't yet realize that homeschooling was gonna play a role in my life. So I got a job. I went to a a fair and I got a job teaching in New York City, was actually in Harlem, teaching at a a middle school. And it all happens in the same day. So like you go there, they g I I got a letter of intent to hire and then I went there and I had to find this school. So I was going around and visiting schools and the whole day I was also praying about it and I was like, you know, let me know if this is what I'm supposed to do. And I got that job at the school in Harlem but the entire day I was also literally like sick to my stomach, like I was gonna throw up and I could not feel settled. And so by the end of the day I said, I get it. This is not what I'm supposed to do. And I called my friend and her husband's like, sweet, and g hired me immediately. And I came home and I actually never looked back and I created a pniche for myself. Teacher Jenny is what I've gone by in my professional life since then. And I started basically being a private tutor for homeschooling families. And I taught classes And I taught in people's homes and I drove all over the place and you know I had co I had classes that I specialized in and I went to my friend's co-op and I learned a lot about co-ops and I met a lot of families and I was very happy and one of the things that drew me to homeschooling was I recognized that whatever that that factor was that was part of the private school working with gifted kids and the freedom we had to learn what we wanted and do what we wanted. I recognize that in homeschooling families and I said, you know, I'm like, my goodness, this could be like manufactured and like I wanted that really bad. I also just love kids and I love the energy of kids and I just always wanted to be around kids and com combining kids with education and what you can teach them has always excited me. And so I was able to do that for a long time and then I discovered the philosophy that I follow and it led me to forming a co op and we called it a Commonwealth School actually and there was a lot of work that went into that and that school still exists in Tacoma and actually, you know, my daughter was able to be part of the co op that I created and I find for me personally being able to have a co op to work with and to help the home school has been a lifesaver and I really had a bit of a comeuppance when I started home schooling in earnest because they'd spent so long working with home school families and starting co ops and creating these these programs and I kind of felt like, you know, I was telling people what to do without doing it myself and then I started doing it myself and I'm like, this is not as easy as I was trying to do people that it was. I should go back and apologize. But then out of that, moving on from co-ops, I was able to start my own curriculum business. And I think maybe we can talk about that later. But that kind of takes us up to present day. You're awesome. You're so well rounded. You work in in so many like the public school system and and so many different co-ops and and families. So Do you have a s a certain way of homeschooling? Do you have a certain technique that you've fallen in love with? Tell me how that's evolved. Yeah, so when I was attending the co op with my friend, I actually had another friend that homeschooled all of her kids, seven seven kids she had. And I guess I never had asked her like what her philosophy was. I just really like liked how she homeschooled. And, you know, there was you know, there was growth with their kids and there was different expectations for the different ages. And I think I knew that she liked a Thomas Jefferson education, but I didn't know a lot about it. And then I went and visited a friend of mine from that was a companion of mine when I was served a mission for my church. And she homeschooled as well. And I s I said, You homeschool a lot like my friend at home. And then she really she was like, Well we do this and then she showed me the Thomas Jefferson education book. And so then I really got interested in earnest. And so I've al always felt like the philosophy of TJ Ed resonates with me very strongly. And it allows for optimal freedom in homeschooling. it allows for the kids to grow organically and it also allows me because I think there's like there's the philosophy and then there's the actual homeschooling. And so TJ Ed allows me to have a idea of why I'm doing what I'm doing. It allows me to understand the way that public school is run and why I don't want to be a part of it. And it gives me a framework to, you know, hang my beliefs on. But I am at heart an eclectic homeschooler. Like I don't think I've ever bought a full box set of curriculum and sat my kid down and that's what she's done for the year. I've always I've you know, I love, I love, love, love curriculum, but I love projects and I love individual classes and I love being able to pick and choose what we're going to use. I also really, really love what Thomas Jefferson Education allows for growth as f as far as growth in adults is concerned. And so when I first was introduced to Thomas Jefferson Education, I went and did some training. and I did like sh a Shakespeare class and I was sitting in there with women at the time that were like the age of my mom and they were for the first time experiencing real scholarship and I just was so enamored of that. I was like, this is so fantastic. I want to help bring that to adults. And so part of what some my co op experience, leadership and co op experience has been, as well as running my curriculum business is been empowering adults as it's as the homeschoolers in their family and as adults who are filling in the gaps in their own education and what they didn't get. So tell me, I'm burning to know. I've been in the homeschool world for a little while now and I have heard the TJ ed. I always hear TJ ed. I've heard of that before but tell me real quick, I mean I'm sure it's very, very involved, but tell me in a nutshell why somebody Why what you fell in love with with the TJ Ed method. Tell me kind of just a little brief overview of what you made you love that method. So there's definitely probably a lifetime of study with leadership education. There's a lot of components to it. But essentially they talk about well, the guy that wrote it, when I first started when I first read the book and I first started hearing about it, I guess what I liked a lot was that it was conceptual. Like he's was talking a lot about what they did in their home and how it was working for them and it w there wasn't a lot of like Anecdotal evidence. There wasn't a lot of families that you know, it was really at the beginning of Thomas Jefferson education. And I really liked being part of something that was being proven as we were doing it. And, you know, I mentioned like my niece has never stepped foot in a public school. So she has experienced what Thomas Jefferson education says can happen. The the one part that I really appreciate is the phases of learning. So, you know, they say that you start out in core phase, so give or take. a hundred years, it's like zero to eight or so. And that phase it's probably my favorite phase because it's where the kids learn to play, they learn to love, they learn to work, and they learn allegiance. You know, I always think about that. My daughter was was eight when I got her, so she her core phase I didn't have anything to do with. And her mama never let her work. Her mom wouldn't let her do anything. She never taught her how to work. She wasn't even allowed to walk down the stairs by herself. And she's 16 now and she's so talented and she has so many great characteristics. But knowing how to work is a sticking point for us. Like just knowing how to clean. I always I'm like, if you don't learn it in the or those early ages, when do you learn it? Who's teaching you? And when you know, I just think it's genius to think about that. That's the the job of the poor phaser. They get to play, they get to love, they get to work, and they learn their allegiance. And you know, I have this really strong memory of being a little girl and my mom teaching me to vacuum. And she put down little strips of paper and she said you vacuum to this strip and then you pull it back and then you vacuum to the strip. And like to this day, vacuuming is my absolute favorite chore favorite thing to do. And I know that it, you know, it relates to that. So if they have a successful core phase, hopefully then they gradually move into the next phase which is called love of learning. And love of learning phase is like eight to eleven, eight to twelve, it can you know, give or take a a hundred years, right? And that's the phase when they are being fed their interests and their you know, that's when I think the co ops really play an important part because kids get to choose the classes that they want to take. And like your job is to feed them with books and experiences and really love homeschooling because of there's a element in in leadership education, one of the pillars it's called field experience. And it's about going out and doing, getting your hands dirty. So it'll be like field trips. I remember being in college and I had a professor and he was super fascinating to me. It was like a honors anthropology class or something like that. And he was an older guy and he had been a World War Two fire p fighter pilot and he was an archaeologist and he had like excavated his own city in Mexico and he would tell us about how he homeschooled his kids and what he what he did was he just took them around the world with him. And at that time as a young college student I didn't know and you know, much about homeschooling at all, but I like, one day that's I'm gonna do that. And we were able to road school when we moved. We took almost well half a year, about six months, and we traveled from coast to coast across the United States in our R V and you know, we just homeschooled as we went and the w the trip was part you know, a huge part of our homeschooling. So I love that love of learner phase. And, you know, we talked earlier about my daughter and what grade she was in. And I just really loved it when she was a love of learner because sh she I self identified as that. You know, if somebody asked her what grade she's in, she'd be like, Well, I'm a love of learner and you know, s didn't it matter to her that you know she she knew what the answer was supposed to be, but she loved to say that she was in love of learning. And so then when they turn twelve, the goal is that they so academics are present in love of learning phase. But you're not requiring, you're inspiring. And so then when they turn twelve, it's when they become ready to to jump into their scholar phase. And that's, you know, if they've had all these good experiences educationally, then they are ready to buckle down and become a scholar. And that's when you really start pushing the academics. And the idea is that about that time, about age twelve, is when they're ready to be serious. And so you would really start pushing math at that time. We really would start pushing learning how to write. you give them classes that have, you know, a decent element of homework and due dates and requirements. And you know, even this would be the time maybe that and this is a kind of antithetical to a lot of parents. And this is why TJ is not for everyone, because it's it requires an element of faith in the process. And so I actually during those years of of tutoring and working with other homeschooling families, I also was a piano teacher. I taught piano for twenty years now. I just barely decided that I'm retired from that. But people always wanted me to start teaching their kids at like four or five. And I'd say, Okay, but it's you know, it's a much different experience. And it was like this beautiful, wonderful gift if every once in a while a kid would come along at twelve. or thirteen and want to start piano lessons because it's a completely different experience to have an older kid who was ready and I could push them and we would do amazing things together. And not to say that I, you know, didn't enjoy those younger kids, but teaching them was prolonging the beginnings of learning and, you know, a lot of play and having a good time and it wasn't a lot of forward momentum until they were ready to really be pushed. Yeah, my favorite thing that you've said so far, I've never heard it said like this, is that you don't require you inspire. That like sums up, I feel like what so many people love about homeschooling. So what do you I guess what do you wish that more people understood about homeschooling? You know, I feel like I wish that more people understood that it's our right to homeschool and that Homeschooling is for everyone. You know, we're there's no one way to do it, but I think that homeschooling is a lot of people think that homeschooling is a white person thing, or homeschooling is a rich person's thing, or homeschooling is a stay-at-home mom kind of thing, and that you know, it's it's just not for me. I would love to see more people of color, more single moms making it work. Because, you know, my sis like I said, my sister is an excellent example of how you make it work. And I think I wish that people really understood and believed that the alternative and you know, homeschooling is not for everyone. I know that. And the people that I have seen be successful as public schoolers have been parents who are actively involved in their child's education no matter what. They're the moms and the dads that are in the schools. that they're volunteering. They're the home you know, they're the homeroom moms, they're PTA, they're at every event, like they're they know the secretary's names and then secretaries know them. They, you know, they're at ev they're so involved and it they're not turning that responsibility wholly over to the school. And I wish that people really understood that the alternative to not home you know, to not homeschooling or not being super active in your kids' education Is that you're turning your kids over for eight to nine hours a day to people who really do think that they are more qualified than you and who will undoubtedly begin to have more of an influence than you. And it's not just the teachers, it's the administration, it's the counselors, and it's their peers. So I just wish that people would ask maybe more questions and trust that. They could do it no matter what their situation is. Because there's community out there for homeschooling and there's room for everyone and we need more people. We need more diversity in the homeschooling world, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. What's misconception about homeschooling that you would love to correct? You know, I guess everybody talks a lot about socialization. it's kind of the most played stereotype that's homeschool kids aren't socialized. I think a misconception in and a mistake a lot of people make is they try to recreate public school at home. And so I think that, you know, that's a misconception. When you homeschool there is it's it's all about freedom. It's all about creating the ideal situation for yourself and for your family and that it can look any way you want it to look. And you know, whether it's like, you know, you work so you do the bulk of your academics in the evening or you employ your parents or aunts or, you know, sisters, whoever is willing and desirous to help you, you outschool it with online programs or co ops or you wait until they're twelve before you start doing a whole s lot of academics with them and you guys are just having The world is your oyster, right? You're just having fun up until that point and realizing that there's so much so much to be learned by just experiencing the world and by reading, reading, reading, reading with your kids. And that you know, education is not s hard and it shouldn't be full of anxiety and fear and You know, homes there's a lot of homeschooling families that homeschool in ways that I would never homeschool and maybe, you know, don't a hundred percent agree with. and I also think I don't know if it's a misconception, but this is something that a Thomas Jefferson education has really helped me to understand, is that there's a requirement that we understand that the children that we're raising are of a different generation than us. And so the expectations of how we educate them are different than how we were educated. Well, you know, one thing that this generation is poised to be is the most entrepreneurial generation of all times. And they're not going to college. They're not. They're doing it completely different. And it's our job to know that and understand that and address it with them differently. Address education with them differently. Yeah. I'm I'm really enjoying your new concept that The way that I understand, like the way that I would summarize the TJ Ed, and I'm saying this off of what you've said, because like I said, I really didn't I've heard of it, but I didn't really know is is they have this curiosity and this community phase. And then what was kind of the middle one? Like the the just finding the things that they love and you nurturing that and finding ways that they can learn more about that. And then you get into maybe more so what you would call the school system's way of doing it. And I like that you pointed out that you don't have to homeschool the way that the school does. I've definitely fallen victim to that way of thinking of like I need to recreate the public school system here at home. And when I found a lot of success is when I'm actually not doing that. So I'm I'm seriously loving this. This is amazing. The more that we take fear out of homeschooling, the more successful we'll be. yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. What would you say to a parent who's considering homeschooling but is afraid that they aren't qualified? I mean, there's two things to talk about, which is, you know, how to get your you know, how to get your confidence up. You know, and my sister was definitely one of those. She has learning disabilities. She was a, you know, she's gotta work. You know, she's not a stay at home mom. So there was a lot of work to be done to help her to feel confident that she could do this. And not everybody's gonna do it the same as me and you know, this obviously, but you know, the best thing I did for her was move, right? And forced her to see what she could do. But I think there was a big shift in when I told her, I'm just here to help you. I can't do this for you. So Feeling like you can't can't do it, find your support system, right? Yeah. 'Cause I could tell you all the ins and outs of what we did. You know, I forced her to have to go do the actual work that Washington State required, which was either have X amount of college credits or go take this class. And she you know, she went and did it and that in and itself was was empowering for her. And, you know Find a mentor, find somebody that you trust that's gonna help you. You know, TJ is really big on mentors and b having someone that you trust enough that you can submit to them. And, you know, find a homeschooling family that homeschools in a way that you really like and ask to help, you know, let can I know what you do? Can you can you help me? Will you mentor me? You know, there's a practical thing that I've always really appreciated because I've been in a mentoring situation a lot. And mentoring doesn't work unless the mentee is willing to submit, which means they're gonna do the thing that you tell them to do. And I think also if you want to homeschool and you feel that you can't do it, really f focus on your why first and become super convinced or convicted. of your why and make sure that once you've strengthened that enough, then the other parts will fall into place. I mean that makes it sound easier than it is because I know that the confidence level in adults when they're doing something new is totally different than kids and adults, you know, really do struggle. We tend to overthink it, don't we? Yeah. But when you know what when an adult also sees their worth and sees what they can do, that is at as rewarding as working with kids. I've really just appreciated that so much. So awesome. Do you have any particular advice that you would give to somebody who is new to homeschooling? I don't want to scare anybody with th this advice. I was thinking about it, but it's really advice that I heard a long time ago and it was well before I was married. But somebody said one time that you cannot hold school if there's problems in your marriage. Like make sure that you have a strong marriage. And part of that is doing whatever it takes to make sure that your husband is on board, that you guys are on the same page. Make him read the books. You know, do whatever it takes, whether you have to c you have to have these compromises or how are you going to include him? What What is it gonna look like? What does he think home school is versus what you think home school is? And do whatever it takes to make sure that the two of you are on the same page and otherwise it's it's so, so hard. And I've seen it time and time again where the mom wants to homeschool and she's doing her best and you know, she understands the progress and the husband's coming home and he's like, What have you done all day today? Why can't they do math? and you know, this, that and the other and it just doesn't work. It doesn't work and it's h way harder than it needs to be. And then, you know, resentments creep in and you're just as the as the mom and the homeschooler, you know, you're just in a between a rock and a hard place. So I would say before you even home school, make sure that things are tight with your husband and you guys are on the same page. Wow. You've had you've You've enlightened me. I feel like you think about things in a different way that I do. Like that that's really awesome. I I had never thought about that, but I absolutely agree. Okay. So tell me a little bit about your business. How what do you do and how does that have to do with homeschooling? Well, my business is called Curriculum Square. the website is just curriculumsquare.com. And I started it with a gal named Brenda Haas, and Brenda Haas runs an a company called New Commonwealth Schools. So she's a mentor for people who are starting co-ops. And so that's how I met her was mentoring with Brenda and learning so much about leadership and and how to form a school that's gonna have be lasting. And Brenda works with schools all over the United States. And you know, I mentioned that I feel like leadership education, TJ Ed really empowers adults a lot. And so what we were what she was seeing, what I was seeing actually. is that a lot of parents around the country that were working in co-ops were writing also writing curriculum, writing classes to teach, especially for the scholar age. And you know, they were getting all this inspiration about how to inspire the kids and how to teach and in a group setting. So a lot of these really cool classes were being written. And so Brenda and I said, you know, let's find a way we need a way that we can share these with other schools and other people. And a lot of times in the co op world, th you know, the people are just reinventing the wheel all the time. They want a class and so they're like, Well I'll just put it together and I'm like, hey, you know, so and so just wrote this excellent class. That's the exact thing that you're looking for. So what we started to do, we took the classes that we knew of and we asked the people and we said, Hey, you know, we'd love to publish your class and put it on our website and share it with other homeschooling families. And so that's what we did. And Brenda's moved on and my new business partner is her name is Jennifer Jarrett. And she runs a very successful co-op in Washington called Leaf. So what I do is I solicit projects written by homeschooling parents. So if I hear that you wrote something and you know maybe be knocking down your door and so then the family the parent, you know, I convince them that their hard work needs to be rewarded and let's start to, you know, and and it's kinda like a little Etsy shop. Everybody gets a storefront and they write, you know, their products are published on their storefront and but We go through an editing process together and I work with them to make sure that their project is ready for someone to pick it up and teach it from you know from the get go. And we just have such awesome, awesome curriculum. We have a thing called the Playful Book Club that this gal just wrote and it's she knows a lot about leadership education and she wrote a book club curriculum for core age kids. So it's like from zero to you know, from like four to four to eight or so. and it's just a you know pick up and go book club with so many awesome activities in it. And we have s you know scholar projects, you have tons of history, we have science, we have finance, and they're all projects that are written in this eclectic style that I love, by people who have a passion for the thing that they wrote that class for you know, about the class. Or they oftentimes have developed a passion just for curriculum. A lot of times people will write a class and then they're like, hey, I want to do another one. They love it. That's an amazing resource because so many people put so much time into writing a a class or a curriculum of what they want to put on. But it's an amazing resource as well for the other side, for the people who are like, okay, I want to teach about something really specific. But I don't have time to write the full curriculum. I just need the information already set up. That's that's an amazing resource. I'm glad you shared that. Tell us then what news clips. It's called curriculumsquare.com. And you know, we are a place to go to find curriculum. And also if you wrote a class and you're like, hey, I wanna, you know, be part of that, contact us. Or even if you just have an idea, it's something that is kind of my superpower is helping people to develop those. ideas into a class and make it work. So it's a lot it's very like I said, I love working with adults as well as kids. So it's a very fulfilling awesome. Yeah, that's it. Well you are just they genuinely helpful all around. That's amazing. Thank you so much for coming on, Genevieve. Thank you. And and thank you for being a part of Outside the Box Education. We're grateful to have you and And I do feel like you've done a an amazing job at helping me think outside the box. Like I I know that's I know that's what this is called, but truly you you have. And so I appreciate you. Thank you so much. No, my pleasure. I never get to talk about you know, my journey enough. So this has been fun. Yeah. I appreciate it a lot. Yeah. Thank you so much. You're welcome.