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Mark Moss | Simply Bitcoin IRL · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of
• 0:02
  Simply Bitcoin IRL. Today we have a very special
• 0:04
  guest. We have Mark Moss.
• 0:06
  He is the host of Market Disruptors YouTube channel and
• 0:10
  the Mark Moss Show. He's one of the most talented
• 0:14
  content creators I've ever met in my life.
• 0:16
  He's very, very good, huge fan of his show and I'm honored to
• 0:19
  have him back on simply Bitcoin. So before we jump into it, I do
• 0:23
  want to give a shout out to the Bitcoin company that makes this
• 0:25
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• 0:26
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• 0:29
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• 0:37
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• 0:40
  states. You got to check them out.
• 0:41
  Check out bitcoinwell.com. All right, everybody, let me
• 0:44
  bring on stage. Hey Mark, how you doing man?
• 0:48
  What a nice intro. I don't believe it.
• 0:50
  But thank you for that. But yeah, always a pleasure.
• 0:53
  You say I'm. I'm a legend creating content
• 0:55
  man the first time I went on your show way back in the day.
• 0:58
  I remember. I've told you many times, man,
• 0:59
  so creative, so fun. I love being here.
• 1:01
  So thanks for having me back. I mean, I mean I I meant every
• 1:04
  word. It's it's what you do is is
• 1:07
  incredible like from the script writing to just the production
• 1:10
  quality itself. And you know you work in media
• 1:12
  and you you you understand how difficult that is and you only
• 1:15
  get to that through repetition and experience and like making
• 1:18
  every mistake in the book. So yeah, I'm a huge fan.
• 1:21
  I'm not just saying that's book. Smoke up your ass.
• 1:24
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 1:26
  So, so yeah, man, look, so much, just so much to talk about.
• 1:29
  You know, crazy stuff. Let's start off with the ETFs.
• 1:32
  I know that you've been covering that.
• 1:34
  It's it's a complete game changer to the Bitcoin space.
• 1:37
  The price ran up. I I suspect that it was
• 1:40
  responsible for the run up from 25K to 50K, the whole ETF
• 1:44
  narrative a lot of people knew beforehand.
• 1:46
  The SEC completely dropped the ball.
• 1:49
  Gary Gensler made a fool of himself.
• 1:51
  So, Mark Moss, what's your take on the Bitcoin ETF?
• 1:54
  What's the significance of it? How you feeling about it?
• 1:56
  Well First off I'll say that I've always said that I think
• 1:59
  the price of Bitcoin is the least important thing or I
• 2:02
  should say the least interesting thing to talk about.
• 2:05
  Obviously we throw out you know NGU number go up technology and
• 2:08
  it's fun. I was writing that newsletter, a
• 2:10
  Bitcoin only newsletter for a while.
• 2:12
  I'm I'm not currently still writing it but the opening line
• 2:15
  was Bitcoin is the great bait and switch.
• 2:18
  You come for the money and then you stay for the freedom.
• 2:21
  And so I think there's a much more interesting, much more
• 2:24
  important things. There's much bigger problems
• 2:26
  that we have in the world today and I think Bitcoin solves those
• 2:29
  and that's what's interesting, not the price.
• 2:31
  And I I did throw a little I'm just saying this because I did
• 2:33
  throw a little shade out on Twitter where I'm like, man, all
• 2:36
  I hear is ETF, it's like I'm I'm tired of it.
• 2:38
  But here we are. It's important for a couple
• 2:41
  reasons. One, we want the NGU to work
• 2:43
  because of that that feedback loop and that that bait and
• 2:46
  switch as I said, right. We need the number to go up so
• 2:49
  we get the volatility down and then people in 3rd world
• 2:52
  countries could benefit more from it if the volatility goes
• 2:55
  down. So there's a lot of reasons why
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  NGU and and the ETFs are good. Specifically though I would say
• 3:01
  about the price, I would agree with you on that.
• 3:03
  I think that because the market is so small, it's got a it's
• 3:06
  it's a very inelastic supply which means the price moves up
• 3:10
  really quickly And what happens is it sort of becomes like the
• 3:12
  self fulfilling prophecy. So what happens is when these
• 3:15
  ETFs started looking like they're getting closer, closer,
• 3:17
  closer, obviously there's lots of talk going on about that and
• 3:20
  what happened is people start wanting to front run that.
• 3:23
  So because markets are forward-looking.
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  So it's like well this is going to happen.
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  So let me buy now. And what happened is as people
• 3:29
  started buying now, I started pushing the price up, which then
• 3:32
  made more people want to buy. So when we buy, the price went
• 3:34
  up which made more people want to buy and they created this
• 3:36
  feedback loop. But also there was something
• 3:39
  else going on. I made a video December 5th
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  saying warning Bitcoin ETFs and the warning was that I I said I
• 3:47
  think this is going to be a buy the rumor, sell the news event.
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  And the reason why is just a week or two before I was in Fort
• 3:53
  Worth at the Texas Blockchain Association and I found myself
• 3:56
  at dinner with like 10 people. Peter McCormack and Caitlyn Long
• 4:01
  and Natalie was there and there was a few bankers and regulators
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  there. I don't want to say all their
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  names. And we started talking about the
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  ETFs and they started explaining the way they worked, and that
• 4:11
  was that most of these or these big ETFs, they don't, they're
• 4:14
  not going to just go buy the Bitcoin off of the market the
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  day they open. They've been buying them Bitcoin
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  and they keep them in a buffer or feeder account.
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  The feeder, the buffer account will be actively trading the
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  market, finding the best time to buy.
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  The ETF will be buying and selling from their account.
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  And so because of that, it wasn't like we're going to
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  expect them to go buy a bunch of Bitcoin that day they got
• 4:33
  announced, which is why I made the video.
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  I thought all these people would lead that that run up.
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  But anyway, I'm I'm saying this because to add into your point,
• 4:41
  Nico, it wasn't just the retail people trying to front run it.
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  It was also the ETFs seeding their accounts and so it caused
• 4:50
  this massive run up. Now as soon as the ETFs were
• 4:52
  announced, we did get a little sell off.
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  It wasn't massive, but it, but it did had a kind of a
• 4:57
  considerable drop, at least compared to other markets.
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  And I the video I'd made was warning, you know, don't get
• 5:03
  shaken out. Like if you're probably going to
• 5:05
  see this, use it as a buyout, you don't get shaken out.
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  That's exactly what happened. And since then we've seen an
• 5:10
  enormous amount of buying, a lot of people trying to throw shade
• 5:14
  on them, saying that there was a flop.
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  You know, Mike Green's out there talking about how it was a
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  failure, things like that. In my opinion, it was a massive
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  success. The amount of Bitcoin that's
• 5:23
  being sucked and hoovered off of the market is you know depends
• 5:27
  on the day, but upwards of 10 times the amount of new Bitcoin
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  being created and it's creating that feedback loop.
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  And already Nico, I mean what are we a a month into it
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  approximately and we're already seeing, I I put up this on
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  Twitter the other day, about 50% of investors are in passively
• 5:42
  managed funds and it's now what we're seeing is a lot of these
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  managers that manage these passive indexes are starting to
• 5:49
  allocate towards Bitcoin and again it's a feedback loop.
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  So they add it, they out, they start outperforming.
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  So more people have to buy it, they start up performing, more
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  people buy it and and man, we're in the thick of it right now.
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  And and and and I'm incredibly excited for the next cycle, what
• 6:05
  you said about how these managers are adding it and and I
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  remember there was this news coming out of Canada and it was
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  the conservative all in one fidelity ETF and it got that
• 6:18
  sweet, sweet 1% Bitcoin allocation and I'm like this is
• 6:23
  a game changer. Why is it a game changer?
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  Because as soon as they get a taste of this, all the other
• 6:29
  eat, they're not going to have a choice, right?
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  The the market forces are going to do what market forces do
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  best. And you're going to be in a
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  position where you actually, you can make the argument that
• 6:38
  you're hurting your client by not having exposure to Bitcoin.
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  And I think that virus has infected Wall Street.
• 6:46
  I would agree on that. And that's kind of what I said,
• 6:48
  this sort of competitive nature, right?
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  So it's like, hey, if they're outperforming me, then I have to
• 6:51
  do the same thing as them and then that sort of becomes a self
• 6:54
  fulfilling prophecy. But there's two things that I
• 6:56
  think are important. So one just specifically in in
• 6:59
  regards to that, right, That's important and we understand.
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  Now like I said that chart I put on Twitter I think last week,
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  most people aren't managing their own money.
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  So most people are going to end up owning Bitcoin and not even
• 7:10
  knowing it. That's a pretty big deal because
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  if they start doing 12345 percent, they don't have to go
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  convince everybody. They just move.
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  Yeah, there we go, there's the chart, right?
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  They just they just can, they can move the market.
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  But I think there's something else going on that's that's
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  really big that a lot of people who don't understand
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  multidisciplinary subjects like technology and cycles maybe
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  miss. And I'm talking about
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  specifically something known as diffusion of innovation.
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  So in a new technology chart you've all seen the the bell
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  curve and you have the innovators, the true believers,
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  I'm sorry, the the yeah, true believers.
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  Then there's the chasm and then there's the early majority and
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  there's the late majority. And the reason why I bring that
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  up is that we've seen Bitcoin go from the innovators, obviously
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  the coders, the developers, the true believers, that's me and
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  you. We've been shut, we haven't been
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  able to shut up at it, you know for many years.
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  But then there's the chasm. And and typically that was
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  really it's it's a technology curve but it's really about a a
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  marketing curve. And the reason why the chasm is
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  there is something has to change in the mindset of people that
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  will start to bring in the early majority.
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  There we go, yeah, perfect chart.
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  And so I think there's lots of things that start helping it get
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  across the chasm. But the ETF is the piece that
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  moves it across the chasm. And now all of a sudden I didn't
• 8:22
  even know I was owning Bitcoin. No wonder My Portfolio was doing
• 8:24
  so good and it and it legitimizes it, right.
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  So there's still a lot of stigma as though the government's going
• 8:29
  to make it illegal and how do I store it.
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  And you know all the other pieces of FUD we hear all the
• 8:32
  time but I think it's gonna cross the chasm and that's a
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  really, really, really big deal. We're seeing it not just cause
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  the ETFs. We're seeing Larry Fink the
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  largest you know the the manager of the largest asset fund in the
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  world say that people are running the Bitcoin for safety
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  like we're we're seeing this thrust into the presidential the
• 8:52
  United States presidential campaigns and so we're really
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  seeing this chasm being crossed. The ETFs are sort of propelling
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  that, but then it crosses the chasm at the time it's
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  available. I mean, this is this is
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  fireworks. The, the halving is on the way,
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  right? It's it's like this is the ETF
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  is this is doing its thing. They're buying a lot more
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  Bitcoin that is being, you know, dropped in the market every
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  single day. And then the halving's right
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  around the corner and it creates this perfect series of events.
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  And that's perfect segue to my next question.
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  And I think last cycle we had, I think it was a lot of people
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  felt like it underperformed. I have a theory.
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  I think it had to do with the China ban.
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  I think it had to do with the fact that the hash rate, you
• 9:39
  know, dropped like 50%. Those miners had to sell to
• 9:43
  relocate to more favorable jurisdictions.
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  And I think that really cut the market short.
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  A lot of people are saying that it's the FTX stuff.
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  I really believe it had to do a lot with the miners and I
• 9:54
  believe that's part of the reason that we we didn't get to
• 9:56
  100K. Now a lot of people what I the
• 9:58
  the very strong narrative that I see this cycle, I see a lot of
• 10:01
  people talk about Mark is this idea of diminishing returns,
• 10:04
  right. So my question to you is are we
• 10:06
  late to Bitcoin? Is the opportunity still there
• 10:08
  for an investor or someone who's, you know, looking at
• 10:11
  Bitcoin, they're seeing it at it's currently at $51,631.00 and
• 10:15
  they're like, man, I missed the train, How would you convince
• 10:18
  that person? Yeah.
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  So, yeah, you missed the boat. Sorry.
• 10:24
  You're never going to make a million percent again, but you
• 10:26
  can still make a few thousand, right?
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  Like, I mean, think about this, right.
• 10:30
  We just have to kind of think about this in, in in like
• 10:32
  rational terms, right? Like unfortunately we're in in
• 10:35
  in a gamble culture today, which that's a whole other topic if we
• 10:38
  want to dive into. But you know, now I I deal with
• 10:41
  this all the time. Like people are like, oh, if I
• 10:43
  can't make 2000% in the next 30 days, it's no good.
• 10:45
  I'll go get this, this altcoin or whatever, right.
• 10:48
  So yeah, you missed out, right. You're not going to make the
• 10:50
  million percent again like we did if you bought in, you know
• 10:53
  whatever 2010, 2011, but you're still got hundreds of percent in
• 10:58
  front of you, which is still better than any other assets
• 11:01
  that you can potentially get into.
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  So you you missed that. But what's in front of us is
• 11:06
  still better than anything else that's out there.
• 11:07
  So back to the law of diminishing returns, that was
• 11:10
  sort of what I was talking about with these ETFs, right.
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  If we get enough people to to bring in the money and we get
• 11:15
  the NGU to go up enough, it lowers the volatility.
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  So volatility works both ways, right?
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  It goes up and down and so as the asset gets bigger, the
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  volatility will go down, which means yes the the diminishing
• 11:26
  returns the the the pumps will be less but also the draw downs
• 11:30
  will be less. Instead of 90% draw downs, we
• 11:32
  had 80% draw downs and then 70% draw downs and eventually we get
• 11:35
  to 50% draw right. So the draw downs are worse or
• 11:38
  less and the and the pumps are less as well.
• 11:39
  I do think that's the case. As a matter of fact, I spent
• 11:43
  four hours this morning in Deep Work.
• 11:45
  I'm working on a new report that I'm putting out.
• 11:48
  A couple years ago, I did a video called Michael Saylor
• 11:51
  Strategy to Retire off of Bitcoin and it went pretty
• 11:53
  viral. And I'm redoing that and I'm
• 11:56
  going to put it out as a report with a calculator and
• 11:58
  everything. And I'm sort of, it's a very
• 12:02
  basic sort of forecast of where I think Bitcoin could go and how
• 12:06
  you could use this calculator. But I did.
• 12:08
  I put in the diminishing returns into there of going down to, you
• 12:12
  know, 25%, fifteen percent, 10% returns instead of the 200%
• 12:16
  we've seen as a compounded annual growth rate.
• 12:19
  So I would say that. The other thing I would say
• 12:21
  though, just to sort of make the newcomers feel pretty good about
• 12:24
  this, I started buying Bitcoin in 2015 when it was 300 bucks,
• 12:27
  which is great, right? Except for I would say and I
• 12:31
  know this is hard for people to understand, I think today is a
• 12:34
  better risk adjusted entry than it was back then because it was
• 12:38
  so new IT was so risky. I I couldn't risk more than a
• 12:42
  couple 1000 bucks right or whatever that that number is to
• 12:44
  you small bets today I I make really big bets into it right.
• 12:50
  And and and because the risk is gone, so it's a better risk
• 12:52
  adjusted entry. You can put more allocation
• 12:55
  towards it and we still have, yeah, lots of returns in front
• 13:00
  of us. Yeah, And I I completely agree.
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  And there was one of your your recent episodes you had, you
• 13:06
  know, the the legend Jeff Booth on your show 2 Legends, Mark
• 13:10
  Moss and Jeff Booth together. And you guys went down, you
• 13:14
  know, a rabbit hole. And I think it was you recently
• 13:17
  tweeted it out at Jeff Booth through some absurd number of
• 13:22
  out there. I think it was like 42.
• 13:24
  It was just crazy. Well, a $900 trillion worth of
• 13:28
  assets. And so yeah, it's like a $42
• 13:31
  billion Bitcoin. And and it's just, it's just
• 13:34
  crazy. So I have the, I have the clip
• 13:36
  and we'll play it and then we'll discuss it.
• 13:38
  Here we go. So, so, so, so, so what's
• 13:43
  different here is the $900 trillion of global wealth.
• 13:48
  Imagine you you have a percentage of that Ledger.
• 13:51
  Right. And you could say if Mark Moss
• 13:54
  has $1,000,000, you could just calculate exactly what percent
• 13:57
  you have of that Ledger. If that Ledger is 1.5
• 14:01
  quadrillion tomorrow because there's a whole bunch more
• 14:04
  manipulation of money and you're part of that Ledger doesn't go
• 14:09
  up by that amount. You lost money, but you didn't
• 14:11
  know you lost money. That's what that's what you're
• 14:14
  living in and that's what everyone is pricing there is in
• 14:17
  and when they naturally say what is Bitcoin price in this Ledger,
• 14:22
  they're making that calculation error.
• 14:25
  When I say it's saying decentralized and secured on the
• 14:29
  on the on the base Ledger, then it is inevitable.
• 14:33
  If it stays decentralized and secure, it reprices everything
• 14:37
  in the 900 trillion mark. What did he just say?
• 14:42
  Well, what? What he what he said is first of
• 14:45
  all I get all excited and I talk all fast.
• 14:48
  Jeff just talks so calm and and and thoughtfully.
• 14:52
  What he said though is that nobody, he didn't say this, but
• 14:56
  we have to think about like this.
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  Nobody wants money, which is crazy, but we don't.
• 15:01
  We don't want money. What we want are the things that
• 15:04
  money buys us. What we want is goods and
• 15:06
  services. So money is not wealth.
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  Goods and services are wealth. I use money to get the goods and
• 15:11
  services. I use money to store my value
• 15:13
  until I'm ready to get the goods and services that I want.
• 15:16
  And so when you think about it like that, what what he's saying
• 15:19
  and what that means is that I don't want money.
• 15:21
  I want goods and services. Goods and services or wealth.
• 15:23
  So you take all the wealth of the world and then you divide it
• 15:26
  by all the money of the world, which is why you can't just
• 15:30
  increase the money supply. You have to increase the goods
• 15:32
  and services of the wealth. So what he's saying is you'll
• 15:34
  get $900 trillion of wealth of goods and services, and if it
• 15:39
  was all denominated in in Bitcoin, then you would have to
• 15:43
  divide the 21,000,000 by the 900 trillion.
• 15:47
  It's no different than if we went back to a gold standard.
• 15:49
  So you might hear like Jim Rickards or somebody talk about
• 15:52
  how we're going back to a gold standard.
• 15:53
  And what would happen is you'd have to take all the Fiat in the
• 15:56
  world, however much that is, and then you'd have to divide it by
• 16:00
  all the gold that's in the world.
• 16:02
  And that would reprice gold to about 50 or 60,000 an ounce.
• 16:07
  They could say, well, we're going to do a 20% backing, OK,
• 16:09
  so it's down to 30,000 oz. But you take all the Fiat
• 16:12
  divided by all the gold. So this is sort of what Jeff
• 16:14
  Booth is saying. We take all the wealth 900
• 16:15
  trillion and divide it by all the Bitcoin.
• 16:19
  Yeah, no and and and let me ask you something.
• 16:22
  If you were to put a number on it and we're getting into
• 16:25
  speculation territory, but if you were to put a percentage of
• 16:29
  the world's wealth that is going to be allocated to Bitcoin in
• 16:33
  the next 10-15 years, what would that percentage be and what and
• 16:38
  what would be your thought process to get to that
• 16:40
  percentage? I'm sure you've covered this
• 16:42
  topic and I'm sure you've put some thought into that.
• 16:45
  Yeah, sure. So the way that I look at it,
• 16:48
  because I've been a private investor, I, you know, I have
• 16:51
  the fund, the Bitcoin opportunity fund, shout out to
• 16:52
  the Bitcoin opportunity fund. But I've done a lot of private
• 16:55
  equity and a lot of venture capital stuff, you know, over
• 16:57
  the last decade and 1/2 or so. And the way that we look at like
• 17:00
  a venture cap deal, just super simple, like like I'm pitching
• 17:03
  new Uber 15 years ago up in Silicon Valley and you're like,
• 17:06
  well, what the heck is this worth?
• 17:07
  I don't even, you know, an app to call a, a, a, a car.
• 17:10
  Like I can just call it a cab, right.
• 17:12
  What's it worth? Oh, it's worth 100 million.
• 17:13
  Like where did you get 100 million?
• 17:15
  Well, the taxi industry is this big.
• 17:16
  The limo industry is this big, right.
• 17:18
  If we take 5% from each of those.
• 17:19
  So that's sort of what we look at.
• 17:21
  If we're looking at it's like some sort of projection.
• 17:24
  So I think about like what are the asset categories that that
• 17:26
  Bitcoin could demonetize. So certainly store a value
• 17:30
  assets, booth is talking about every asset.
• 17:32
  But let's just take a look at like what are store of value
• 17:35
  assets. So if we look at like, well
• 17:36
  people store their wealth or their value in gold.
• 17:39
  So gold's whatever, 12-13 trillion, they're storing it in
• 17:43
  offshore bank accounts that's 30 to 40 trillion.
• 17:46
  I know you posted that clip of Obama like a week or two ago
• 17:49
  talking about it's like a a Swiss bank account in your
• 17:51
  pocket. So 30 to 40 trillion sitting
• 17:53
  there. You know, a lot of real estate
• 17:55
  is homes, but a lot of real estate is a place to store
• 17:57
  wealth. There's about 300 trillion
• 17:59
  there. So if we look at just store a
• 18:00
  value assets alone, you're at like about 400 trillion.
• 18:06
  So it could certainly take 5 or 5% of that.
• 18:10
  And then you know Jeff talks about going all the way to where
• 18:13
  it becomes the unit of account and everything's priced in it.
• 18:16
  And so I think I think of this as a long evolutionary process
• 18:19
  and this is where most people get completely wrong at.
• 18:24
  At the Bitlock boom in Dallas and at the pack Bitcoin.
• 18:26
  I gave a keynote and I kind of talked about the time frame and
• 18:28
  I think this plays out over a 50 year time frame because there's
• 18:31
  an evolution. So it starts as a collectible.
• 18:35
  Oh look, this is something cool. I'll keep it.
• 18:36
  Look at this cool rock, this cool feather, this cool shell,
• 18:39
  it's cool baseball card, cool Pokémon card.
• 18:42
  If maybe not all times but maybe that collectible could become,
• 18:45
  could evolve to a store of value.
• 18:48
  So rich people store their value, store their wealth in old
• 18:51
  cars, collectibles, fine art, things like that.
• 18:54
  Then if it has the right money attributes, it could not always,
• 18:57
  but it could evolve to the next stage, which is now a medium of
• 18:59
  exchange. If it's portable, divisible,
• 19:01
  durable, fungible things like that, it could be a medium
• 19:03
  exchange. And then potentially it could
• 19:05
  evolve to that unit of account that Jeff Booth is talking
• 19:08
  about. So when you asked me the
• 19:09
  question, the first thing I wanted, I'm I'm saying this long
• 19:11
  answer because I want to clarify over what time frame.
• 19:14
  So the way that I think about it is I think it could be worth a
• 19:19
  $1,000,000 per Bitcoin by the end of the decade, in five or
• 19:23
  six years from now. And I think I mean you you I
• 19:29
  was, I was searching for an article doing this report that
• 19:31
  I'm working on and you had posted about what's his name,
• 19:35
  the guy from Fidelity Jury. Right.
• 19:38
  And they're predicting that Bitcoin could be worth a billion
• 19:41
  by 2038. So sort of in this calculator
• 19:46
  that I'm putting together, I think in in 20 years from now, I
• 19:50
  mean, I had, I had Bitcoin getting up to about 18,000,000
• 19:53
  per coin over 20 years. That'd be by 2043.
• 19:57
  Again, he said a billion. Fidelity said a billion by 2038.
• 20:02
  So we'll have to see. Now I do want to just just for
• 20:05
  everybody's sake. That means that $1,000,000 is
• 20:08
  nothing. So in Zimbabwe, everybody became
• 20:11
  a billionaire. But it was 350 billion for one
• 20:15
  egg, so you have to keep that in mind and.
• 20:17
  And then that goes back to Jeff's original point, which is
• 20:21
  like, you don't want more money. Essentially what you want is the
• 20:24
  purchasing power that comes with that aspect.
• 20:26
  So yeah, it's, it's a very, very interesting conversation.
• 20:31
  And of course, the opportunity's still there, right?
• 20:33
  It's like. Maybe and and and let me use
• 20:35
  another example so people can understand this, right.
• 20:38
  So let's just say you know, we hear about the rise of the
• 20:40
  bricks and all these nations, the, you know, the BRICS
• 20:42
  nations, they're going to ditch U.S.
• 20:43
  Treasuries are going to start storing their wealth in in in
• 20:45
  gold for example, right. So let's just say one of these
• 20:48
  nations, they have a whatever, 100 billion in their in their
• 20:51
  sovereign fund. So like the 100 billion we're
• 20:53
  dumping Treasury, we're going to buy gold, OK.
• 20:56
  Like there's not, there's not 100 billion of gold to buy right
• 20:58
  now, You can't buy it. So then someone might say, well
• 21:02
  there's not enough gold to go around then well there's not
• 21:05
  enough gold to go around at the current price.
• 21:08
  So the price of gold would have to go to 4 or 5000, then at 4 or
• 21:11
  5000 there's enough gold to go around.
• 21:13
  And so then if you think about it like that, that's the same
• 21:15
  with Bitcoin, right? Because we can't expand the the
• 21:18
  amount of Bitcoin, we can divide it, we can't get more of it.
• 21:22
  And so that's why the price has to go up to get the rest of that
• 21:26
  value to come into it. Gotcha.
• 21:28
  No, it makes, it makes sense. It makes sense.
• 21:30
  So Mark, you're in content creation.
• 21:33
  We're in, we're both in media and I feel like we are living to
• 21:38
  pivot the conversation a little bit cuz I feel like the last
• 21:40
  really month or two is extremely historic, especially with the
• 21:45
  Tucker Carlson interview. And what I'm basically seeing is
• 21:49
  the And then he had this incredible interview a couple
• 21:52
  days ago where I forget what the names the name of the guy was,
• 21:55
  but basically this guy was saying that the legacy media was
• 21:59
  essentially an arm Matt Benz. Mike Benz.
• 22:02
  Yeah. Thanks Opti.
• 22:03
  And and it was just my eyes, I had the suspicion that a lot of
• 22:09
  these, that I call it the legacy media was was captured, so to
• 22:12
  speak. It sounds so absurd when you
• 22:14
  talk about it. But the reason I'm bringing this
• 22:16
  up is the what I'm seeing, the pattern that I'm seeing is the
• 22:20
  rise of independent media. So it's no longer these you
• 22:23
  know, credible sources. It's no longer CNN Fox News.
• 22:27
  It's you're seeing the rise of of of podcasters.
• 22:30
  You're seeing the rise of independent content creators and
• 22:33
  they're the ones that are getting the bulk of the views.
• 22:36
  And because they're the ones getting the bulk of the views,
• 22:38
  governments have never been able to How do you control
• 22:41
  independent content creator? Like how how do you control the
• 22:43
  narrative? How do you, how do you control
• 22:45
  what that person has to say. And I think the conversation is
• 22:49
  has shifted a lot of the the the in terms of the acceptable
• 22:53
  window of discourse, that thing is just moving.
• 22:56
  It's it's just keeps moving in a certain direction.
• 23:00
  I think a lot of people are getting exposed to ideas that
• 23:03
  were normally confined, you know, to the to the dark sides
• 23:09
  of the Internet, but it wouldn't be talked about in the
• 23:11
  mainstream. And now you're having those
• 23:12
  types of conversations talked about in the mainstream.
• 23:16
  And it's it's incredibly exciting, right?
• 23:19
  Especially for people who make media.
• 23:20
  But it's also incredibly exciting from a humanity
• 23:23
  standpoint. You know, 'cause now it's it's
• 23:25
  it's like humanity's free in a way.
• 23:27
  So I want to get your take on that.
• 23:28
  Am I seeing things that are not there?
• 23:30
  That's my personal interpretation of it.
• 23:34
  There, there's a there's a lot to unpack there.
• 23:36
  Nico. Mike, it's Mike Benz.
• 23:37
  Not Matt. Matt Benz.
• 23:39
  And man, I'm so disappointed I missed the freaking boat, dude.
• 23:42
  I I've been talking with him, DMS and I I was like, hey, I
• 23:46
  want to get you on the show. He's like, yeah, let's do it.
• 23:47
  You know, tell me when you want to come.
• 23:49
  Hey, when are we going to do it? And I never booked them and that
• 23:52
  was like the last couple weeks and now he's on Tucker and now
• 23:54
  he's like untouchable. So I missed my, I missed my boat
• 23:57
  on that one. But anyway, you know what he
• 23:59
  talked about? I mean you said it's a little
• 24:02
  bit surprising. It's hard to believe.
• 24:04
  I don't think so at all. I mean, this is exactly how it
• 24:07
  works. And it's not just him.
• 24:10
  So if we look at like, there's a book written called The Revolt
• 24:14
  of the Public. Martin Gurry wrote the book.
• 24:17
  I had him on my show, Amazing book, highly recommend anybody
• 24:20
  read it. And he was AC.
• 24:21
  He worked for the CIA and we had the.com run up into two
• 24:25
  thousand. We had the sell off in 2001.
• 24:28
  He said more information was created than than all of
• 24:32
  humanity before that in one year and then double that the next
• 24:37
  year, double the next year. He said wow, this is
• 24:38
  unsustainable. So anyway, he went and did this,
• 24:39
  this book and he talked about basically the revolt of the
• 24:42
  public is how the Internet is, is overthrowing governments.
• 24:45
  And he talked about like the Arab Spring in Egypt, which Mike
• 24:48
  Benz talked about. And he talked Mike Benz talked
• 24:50
  about how the the powers that be, the industrial, military,
• 24:54
  industrial complex, whatever was using the Internet to literally
• 24:56
  overthrow and do these color revolutions.
• 24:59
  But once the tool got big enough, where now you and I are
• 25:02
  able to do this and specifically more like a like a Tucker
• 25:05
  Carlson or somebody got big enough to challenge or actually
• 25:07
  to overtake mainstream media, all of a sudden they start
• 25:10
  freaking out. So I think having read that
• 25:15
  book, whatever a year ago really opened up my eyes to it.
• 25:20
  Hearing Mike Benz layout the guy's like a walking
• 25:22
  encyclopedia. I mean, he knows every single
• 25:23
  name, date. It's just insane.
• 25:25
  It really brought context to it. So maybe my mind was a little
• 25:28
  bit more open to it. But, you know, to the point that
• 25:30
  you said it's what a time, exciting time to be alive.
• 25:32
  It's exciting. But Nico, it's also very scary.
• 25:35
  And probably a year and a half ago, I told my wife that there's
• 25:40
  a good chance that I won't be able to live in America and do
• 25:44
  what I do within the next five years.
• 25:47
  And and and and you believe that the reason for that is just the
• 25:51
  You're expecting a, A. How do I phrase this?
• 25:56
  You're expecting a reaction from the system.
• 25:59
  Well, not expecting. We're already seeing it.
• 26:01
  So let's just, we can already just look at this.
• 26:02
  So for example, I mean these, these are fringe examples, but
• 26:06
  you start to see the slippery slope, right.
• 26:08
  So the founder of Tornado Cash, right?
• 26:11
  Like he created a piece of software.
• 26:12
  He ends up in jail. Right now they what they do is
• 26:17
  like, hey, with Alex Jones, let's just get him off the face
• 26:20
  of the earth. But you really can't because the
• 26:21
  internet's a little bit decentralized.
• 26:22
  We can take away his ability to make money.
• 26:24
  We can just sue him to high hell.
• 26:26
  We can make sure he can never work again.
• 26:27
  But you can't really get rid of them.
• 26:30
  And now we have tools that I'm I'm bullish on what a time to be
• 26:33
  alive, these decentralized communication protocols like
• 26:36
  Noster. But if the government can't shut
• 26:38
  that down, then their only option is to kill you.
• 26:41
  And so we already see this like what was this, the RESTRICT act
• 26:44
  with 26 high-ranking members of the government sign on to this
• 26:48
  RESTRICT act, which basically said any piece of technology
• 26:52
  that the government deems to be a threat to national security
• 26:56
  and today misinformation's a threat.
• 26:58
  I mean everything's a threat to national security these days.
• 27:00
  So anything that they deemed to be a threat to national security
• 27:03
  would be 1 punishable by 20 years in prison, two $1,000,000
• 27:07
  fine. And what was a three and a like
• 27:10
  a loss of all your property, right.
• 27:11
  That's what that's what they're proposing, Nico.
• 27:14
  And so this that that's an extreme, but oh, that can't
• 27:17
  happen in America. Well, they literally signed the
• 27:19
  bill and we can already see it happen in Canada.
• 27:21
  So in Canada, as I'm sure you're aware, they have a bill now
• 27:25
  where you know, content creators now have to register with the
• 27:28
  state. It's insane.
• 27:30
  And so it starts with the registration process, right?
• 27:33
  For your safety. They start putting these, these
• 27:36
  walls in and they have to. And and this goes back to the
• 27:39
  revolt of the public. If you, if you kind of
• 27:41
  understand this from a psychological and A and a
• 27:43
  political level, they the only way a government can maintain
• 27:48
  power is by controlling the narrative.
• 27:50
  That's it, right. So in the 1500s, during the
• 27:53
  before the Protestant Reformation, the church and
• 27:54
  state was able to control the narrative because people didn't
• 27:57
  have the Bible. The printing press disseminated
• 27:59
  that information. And once that information got to
• 28:02
  the public, the church and state could no longer hold on to the
• 28:04
  power even though they tried, they killed everybody, labeled
• 28:07
  them heretics, etcetera. And so today we're seeing the
• 28:09
  same thing where we have the the state trying to maintain a
• 28:12
  narrative but the the Internet slews, like the Internet
• 28:15
  investigators, they they just debunked, they just bring the
• 28:18
  information out just so quick the government can't maintain
• 28:21
  it. So they'll do just like the
• 28:22
  1500s. They'll start to kill all the
• 28:24
  heretics or you know kill their their character, assassinate
• 28:27
  their character, make them go bankrupt, whatever.
• 28:29
  They will hopefully not actually kill them, but it's it's just
• 28:32
  not going to work. But but that that's kind of
• 28:33
  where we're at. So what a time to be alive,
• 28:35
  Nico. But it could.
• 28:37
  It could get scary. I I agree.
• 28:39
  And you know, I, we, I, I joke around with Opti all the time
• 28:42
  and you know as a first generation American that you get
• 28:45
  sold this idea of, you know, the US, you know, the home of the
• 28:49
  land of the free, home of the brave.
• 28:51
  And you know, I, I come from originally my parents and I, I
• 28:54
  come from Venezuela, right. So I I saw this country
• 28:57
  essentially one of the wealthiest countries in South
• 28:59
  America and it fell to collectivism within 20 years.
• 29:03
  So seeing the the same signs is so apparent is yeah, you're
• 29:09
  right. It's absolutely scary And and I
• 29:10
  joke, I joke with Opti. I say, hey man, we're gonna try
• 29:13
  to hold it down here. But if not, we're gonna change
• 29:15
  simply Bitcoin's name to simplymente Bitcoin and we're
• 29:17
  gonna move to El Salvador. So what?
• 29:21
  What other locations would you have envisioned?
• 29:24
  Where would you escape to? Because there's that, all that,
• 29:27
  all that other narrative, which is, you know, if America falls,
• 29:31
  everywhere else falls. Do you agree with that?
• 29:32
  Yeah, for sure. Because what happens is you
• 29:35
  always need one bright spot, right?
• 29:37
  Like, like, we should be, like, split testing, right?
• 29:40
  Like, wow, let's try capitalism in America, and let's try
• 29:43
  socialism everywhere else. Well, it looks like capitalism
• 29:45
  worked, right? So we should always have that
• 29:47
  and it and it's exactly why they want, why they want America to
• 29:49
  fall. Because you can't.
• 29:51
  If you, if you read back to like the the collapse of the USSR,
• 29:54
  like the Gulag, Acapello and some of the works of those guys,
• 29:57
  you can see what the state, the communist state tried to do is
• 30:00
  they had to eliminate all truth because as soon as somebody
• 30:03
  could break 3, break, break free and live the truth and people
• 30:07
  saw that they would want that. It's why.
• 30:09
  It's why. It's why China has had the Great
• 30:11
  Firewall. What what literally brought the
• 30:14
  end of the COVID mandates there in China was when the World Cup
• 30:18
  was on and they tried to like obfuscate the people in the
• 30:21
  stands so that people in China couldn't say they weren't
• 30:23
  wearing masks. And when all the people in China
• 30:25
  saw they weren't wearing masks, they were like, what they don't
• 30:27
  have to wear like we're we're done with it, right?
• 30:28
  So that they they can't allow that to happen.
• 30:31
  That's why America has to come down.
• 30:32
  We can't have this, the shining beacon that people want, nor nor
• 30:38
  can we have history because they don't want people thinking about
• 30:41
  the good old days. Oh, remember how good it used to
• 30:44
  be. So they have to change history
• 30:46
  to be bad. So we don't want to go back to
• 30:48
  that, right? So that's what happens in a
• 30:49
  cultural revolution like Malice China or what we're having here.
• 30:53
  But back to the question that you asked, like, where would we
• 30:55
  go? You know, we don't know the
• 30:57
  answer to that. So I think about we have massive
• 30:59
  uncertainty in front of us and the way that we beat uncertainty
• 31:03
  is with optionality. So the more options I have, the
• 31:07
  more equipped I'll be able to deal with whatever comes up, and
• 31:10
  we don't know what those are. Some of the ways I think through
• 31:13
  it, though, are, first of all, one there's no, there's no
• 31:18
  utopia for everybody because we all want something different.
• 31:21
  So for example, I'm a big fan of Mexico.
• 31:23
  I'm building a house down in Mexico right now.
• 31:25
  A lot of people are fans of Mexico, but some people want to
• 31:27
  be in Tulum or Plato, Carmen because it's beautiful there.
• 31:30
  And I agree it is, but there's no waves there.
• 31:32
  So for me, I want to be on the other coast of Mexico where
• 31:34
  there's waves you see. So it's just little, little
• 31:36
  things like that. But I would one, I would start
• 31:39
  to look at the nation and think about how did they handle the
• 31:41
  last pandemic. That's sort of a good litmus
• 31:43
  test. And then sort of like, what are
• 31:45
  their policies right now? So like in Mexico, for example,
• 31:49
  you could easily say that the government is more authoritarian
• 31:52
  and more closer to communist than the US is, but they're not
• 31:56
  able to really enforce that. So the actual people that live
• 31:58
  there live way more free than we do in the United States, for
• 32:01
  example, even though the government is, is more
• 32:02
  restrictive. And the same could be said
• 32:04
  throughout Central America. So I think one, how do they do
• 32:07
  that? I think about some of the
• 32:09
  Eastern parts of Europe who are sort of freshly out of
• 32:13
  communism. They're not going to be going
• 32:14
  back to that very time anytime soon.
• 32:16
  El Salvador, you mentioned El Salvador.
• 32:18
  What's going on down there is so exciting.
• 32:21
  It makes me kind of want to go be a piece of that right now
• 32:24
  because they're trending in the right direction.
• 32:26
  But that being said, I want to say one more thing and I'll take
• 32:28
  a break. But we have to be able to hold
• 32:31
  two thoughts in our head at the same time.
• 32:33
  I'm sure you would agree, Nico, because you make content so you
• 32:36
  see it all like I do. One big problem that people have
• 32:39
  today is they lack all nuance and critical thinking.
• 32:42
  Everything's not linear. There's nuance with everything,
• 32:44
  right? So we have to be able to manage
• 32:45
  two thoughts in our head and the two thoughts are Dang. the US is
• 32:50
  going in the bad direction. It's like really bad and like
• 32:54
  the where we're going it it's gonna get bad.
• 32:57
  But at the same time, it's still the best place to be.
• 33:01
  So I can hold both of those thoughts at the same time.
• 33:03
  El Salvador is going in the right direction.
• 33:06
  Oh my gosh, look how exciting. Look what they're building.
• 33:09
  So it's going in the right direction.
• 33:11
  But today it's not that good of a place.
• 33:13
  So you have to be able to hold both of those those those points
• 33:16
  and you have to be able to balance that out, if that makes
• 33:17
  sense. It absolutely makes sense and
• 33:20
  that's a really, really great way of looking at it.
• 33:23
  And I kind of want to go back to because it's a, it's a very
• 33:26
  fascinating rabbit hole, which is basically the the why the US
• 33:32
  is heading in this direction. And you know, you can basically,
• 33:36
  you know, start in the 60s, right?
• 33:37
  And you can go down that rabbit hole.
• 33:38
  It's a fascinating rabbit hole. But I want to get your take.
• 33:41
  Like, what happened? Like why did this happen?
• 33:44
  What happened? Is this solvable, right.
• 33:48
  You're starting to see a little bit of a of a push back in the
• 33:51
  US, especially from the Tea Party and you kind of see it.
• 33:53
  But you know, a part of me it's like, is it too little too late,
• 33:56
  you know, is this, is this, you know, is is this just history
• 34:00
  repeating itself? So I want to get your take on
• 34:01
  that. Well, first I would say how did
• 34:05
  we get here? I mean there's let's come back
• 34:08
  to that. Let's talk about is it too late
• 34:11
  and and it is too late. And here's what I mean by that.
• 34:14
  I've said I did AI, did a show with Breedlove and I and I said
• 34:18
  I called it the crisis of confidence, crisis and authority
• 34:22
  of confidence. And what I said is that the
• 34:24
  current form of government we have is no longer compatible
• 34:29
  with the world that we live in, not just the United States, all
• 34:32
  around the world. So it's too late because the
• 34:36
  current form of government that we've known and we've had is not
• 34:40
  compatible anymore. It won't work.
• 34:41
  We can't go back to it. So what do I mean by that?
• 34:45
  You you, you know you've heard me talk about cycles quite a
• 34:48
  bit. I I look at three big cycles,
• 34:50
  political cycles, technological revolution cycles and and
• 34:53
  financial cycles. It's always technology that
• 34:55
  changes the world. It changes the world because it
• 34:58
  changed the way that we communicate and it changed the
• 35:00
  way that we organize, right. And so I I mentioned the the
• 35:03
  printing press in the 1500s, the world had moved towards
• 35:07
  centralization, right. What happened?
• 35:09
  You had the feudal system. So the feudal system was was
• 35:12
  very centralized from the top down and then that got
• 35:15
  disbanded. We sort of went to the dark ages
• 35:18
  and then it was the church that started bringing bringing all
• 35:20
  the repair bringing everything back and then it got back to
• 35:23
  centralized where we had the church and the state over
• 35:25
  everything technology then create the printing press which
• 35:29
  then broke the grip of that and we went back to a decentralized
• 35:32
  world farms, cottage industry etcetera.
• 35:34
  Then 250 years later. So it's a 250 year cycle this
• 35:37
  moves right 250 years later you have the industrial revolution.
• 35:40
  And so now I couldn't be in the farms and factories anymore.
• 35:42
  I had to move into the cities or farms and cottage I had to move
• 35:45
  to the cities for the factories. And so then that was a very the
• 35:48
  technology created this massive centralizing force where and it
• 35:52
  wasn't just like so it had to had to be in the cities and then
• 35:55
  we had you know 1908 Henry Ford created the automobile but he
• 35:59
  what he really created was mass production.
• 36:02
  And so that that centralizing force of technology continue
• 36:05
  continue continued for 100 years and it culminated in the early
• 36:08
  1900s where we had mass production and in order to
• 36:12
  manage mass production I had to have AI had to have a mass
• 36:15
  management style to manage the masses like cogs in a wheel.
• 36:19
  So I can get maximum performance looking at everybody as a
• 36:22
  performance person on like an assembly line, All right.
• 36:25
  So we had mass production, which then grew a mass middle class
• 36:29
  because dumb people and smart people were equal on an assembly
• 36:33
  line. So instead of having this
• 36:34
  dispersion like we should have, naturally everybody created this
• 36:37
  middle class. We had this mass production, so
• 36:40
  we had mass management and then we created mass government to
• 36:44
  manage the mass management of the mass production, OK.
• 36:48
  But we don't live in that world anymore.
• 36:50
  We're no longer in mass production now We're in the.
• 36:53
  We're not in the. We're not in the industrial age
• 36:55
  anymore. Now we're in the information
• 36:57
  age. And that's part of the reason
• 36:59
  why that we have this massive disparity between income, this
• 37:03
  income inequality gap as they call it.
• 37:05
  I don't think it's a problem like people say it is.
• 37:07
  We have this massive gap in income because we're not all
• 37:10
  equal on assembly line. Now smarter people get further
• 37:12
  ahead. But what this means is that
• 37:14
  instead of big cities and big factories, big cities, big
• 37:20
  factories and mass management manage people like a cog in a
• 37:22
  wheel. That's what Kinzian economics
• 37:23
  does, right? Manage people like a cog in a
• 37:25
  wheel. Now we have people like you and
• 37:28
  me making money on the Internet, traveling the world, doing all
• 37:31
  these different things, and that form of government that was
• 37:35
  built to manage the masses. It doesn't work anymore.
• 37:38
  You can't have 330 million people in the United States
• 37:41
  under a single regime. It just, it won't work.
• 37:44
  Not with the Internet when we were kids.
• 37:46
  I know I'm going on a little bit of rant here.
• 37:47
  Let me finish this point when we were kids.
• 37:50
  You're old, you're younger than me, so maybe you don't remember
• 37:52
  as much as I did. But when we were kids, we all
• 37:54
  listened to the same music, we all watched the same movies, we
• 37:57
  all wore the same thing. But the Internet allowed all of
• 38:01
  this diversity that allowed us to all find these little niches.
• 38:05
  And we started getting more and more and more niched out.
• 38:08
  Right now, we listen to different music, we watch
• 38:09
  different movies, we wear different things.
• 38:12
  And so the central government that we've had that was created
• 38:15
  to manage a world from 100 years ago, it doesn't work anymore and
• 38:19
  it won't work now. The way the country was founded,
• 38:23
  under 50 independent states, under one government, we could
• 38:27
  go back to that, but we can't have one central government over
• 38:30
  330 million. People.
• 38:32
  Yeah. And I I I completely agree.
• 38:34
  And the the IT it's so, you know I I think every, every Bitcoin,
• 38:39
  every person at this point you have to read the sovereign
• 38:42
  individual. They they they they lay this
• 38:45
  out. I completely agree with you.
• 38:47
  Information Technologies makes that system, that system,
• 38:51
  obsolete and kind of leads me to circle back to the original
• 38:55
  question that I asked you which is we're we're we're witnessing,
• 38:59
  we're witnessing this happen in real time.
• 39:02
  You know, and it's just crazy. And then watching the response,
• 39:06
  you know, I'll tell you this, Mark, and you'll appreciate
• 39:08
  this. I saw a the Who's the the old
• 39:13
  host of The Daily Show, Jon Stewart.
• 39:17
  OK, yeah, Jon Stewart. It was Jon.
• 39:18
  Stewart, he He's back, by the way, with another show, but
• 39:20
  yeah. He came back to host The Daily
• 39:23
  Show as a guest, and he did. The first episode he did, He
• 39:28
  came back on, he did it on Tucker.
• 39:31
  And you're watching and I remember watching this like 15
• 39:34
  years ago. It'd be like this is a huge fan
• 39:35
  of the show. And I remember I was like
• 39:36
  watching the show and with the fake laughs in the background,
• 39:39
  like, you know, like the the SNL laughs, like they add the laugh
• 39:42
  tracks into the the episodes and I'm looking at that.
• 39:46
  I'm like, dude, this is propaganda.
• 39:48
  Like this is like, this is this is 10 times better, 100 times
• 39:53
  better than the Soviet Union. This is crazy.
• 39:55
  They're literally attacking this man's character because he did
• 40:00
  an interview that was out outside the acceptable window of
• 40:03
  discourse and it was just so fascinating to me, man, how
• 40:07
  things are changing. So OK, how can individuals, what
• 40:11
  advice would you give individuals other than buy
• 40:13
  Bitcoin other than do your own research?
• 40:15
  What advice would you give to individuals and what advice?
• 40:18
  How would you tell them to deal with their parents that perhaps
• 40:21
  can't move with the times? Yeah, I think, you know, I think
• 40:25
  it's pretty evident at this point that we're not going to be
• 40:28
  voting ourselves out of this. I believe that we have to build
• 40:31
  our way out of this. Like, it's up to like if if you,
• 40:35
  if you look at like Iron Rand's, you know the Atlas Shrugged,
• 40:38
  right. It's like the productive people
• 40:39
  of the world are the ones that drive the world.
• 40:42
  We're the ones with the ideas, the innovations, the hard work,
• 40:44
  the effort and we create the world through building.
• 40:47
  And then you have the unproductive class, as she said,
• 40:50
  when you have to get permission to produce from men who produce
• 40:53
  nothing. So you have this unproductive
• 40:55
  class that doesn't produce anything.
• 40:57
  They're like parasites trying to pull.
• 40:59
  But we have to build our way out of this.
• 41:01
  So back to this form of government's no longer
• 41:03
  compatible. We can see this like when
• 41:05
  they're trying to enact bills like they're going like
• 41:08
  Elizabeth Warren wants to like change the way like the Bitcoin
• 41:11
  code works. And like she wants to like make
• 41:13
  miners have to collect KYC data like travel rule.
• 41:16
  Like OK that that doesn't work. You can't self custody.
• 41:19
  Like, I can't know 12 words in my head.
• 41:22
  Like what? What do you mean Like how does
• 41:23
  that work? Right.
• 41:23
  So like they're they're not able to keep up with how fast the
• 41:27
  world is changing. And so it's up to us as as
• 41:30
  builders, as entrepreneurs. I know you are Nico, I am to
• 41:34
  build our way out of this. And So what does the average
• 41:37
  person do about this one? You have to learn to take care
• 41:40
  of yourself. You have to think about your own
• 41:41
  health, right? Becomes become the better player
• 41:44
  that get your mind right. Learn how to think critically,
• 41:47
  learn how to digest and and and discern information.
• 41:50
  You have to build up your health and your energy and your focus
• 41:54
  and you got to get your money right?
• 41:55
  Right. Like there's no way to escape
• 41:56
  the matrix unless you have money and influence.
• 42:00
  You need money and influence. My kids, they call them MPCS.
• 42:03
  If you don't have you're a non player.
• 42:05
  You need to be a player character.
• 42:06
  You need to be a character right?
• 42:07
  Power up your character. You need to up level your life.
• 42:11
  You need to create some income and that means like get out of
• 42:13
  your mom's basement. Stop watching Netflix and like
• 42:15
  work man. Like build something.
• 42:17
  Develop something. Go work with people who are
• 42:19
  building and developing something.
• 42:21
  Learn to create wealth by providing value into the world.
• 42:25
  Then yes, when with that excess money of course buy Bitcoin
• 42:28
  right. But Bitcoin doesn't help you if
• 42:30
  you don't have any savings And we've there was that tweet going
• 42:32
  around last couple days with Russell O Kong and he was
• 42:34
  talking about how nobody's in these.
• 42:37
  I think it was third world countries, Africa, whatever,
• 42:39
  wasn't into buying Bitcoin because yeah, they don't have
• 42:41
  any savings. And so take care of yourself,
• 42:44
  build up your energy effort, think clearly, go start building
• 42:48
  either on your own or go help people who are building create
• 42:52
  wealth by putting value into the world.
• 42:53
  Take that value and then you can start, you know, parking that
• 42:56
  over into Bitcoin. But yeah, we're going to have to
• 42:59
  build our way out of this. It's the it's the doers, it's
• 43:01
  the builders. I'm super bullish on when
• 43:03
  millions of entrepreneurs are, you know, backs are against the
• 43:05
  wall. Yeah.
• 43:06
  And and they're completely unleashed and you know no one's
• 43:09
  gonna judge them based on where they're from.
• 43:11
  Whatever the Internet is gonna give them.
• 43:14
  Not equal opportunity, right. But at least a shot.
• 43:17
  Right. And you know it It's I'm, I'm
• 43:19
  incredibly excited. So you know there is gonna be a
• 43:23
  a backlash and this is talked about in the sovereign
• 43:25
  individual and you know the the I think the you you wrote a book
• 43:31
  with him. Svetsky calls them the laggards
• 43:33
  in iron rands. Atlas Shrugged, They're called
• 43:35
  the looters, right? The people that benefit from,
• 43:40
  you know, the the welfare state, right?
• 43:42
  There's just this idea, you know, that is based on the
• 43:45
  wealth redistribution mechanism that is enabled by Fiat, right?
• 43:49
  Once that mechanism, you know, gets attacked or, you know,
• 43:52
  affected, like how are they gonna be able to, you know, give
• 43:56
  away that free stuff that they're promising, right?
• 43:59
  I don't think they'll be able to the way that they have in the
• 44:01
  past. And I think that's gonna be a
• 44:02
  shock to a large portion of the population.
• 44:06
  What is that pushback going to look like?
• 44:08
  How do people protect themselves?
• 44:09
  Is are we just all going to move to a citadel in the middle of
• 44:12
  nowhere and just surround ourselves with Electro?
• 44:15
  I'm making a joke, but I'm dead serious at the same time.
• 44:18
  I think we have a model right in front of us.
• 44:19
  We we can see it. Remember I talked about this
• 44:21
  competitive nature where we can see these models playing out.
• 44:23
  So if if if your listeners haven't been paying attention,
• 44:26
  like everyone needs to be watching what's going on in
• 44:28
  South Africa. And I don't want to get get into
• 44:32
  like the the Super weeds into this.
• 44:34
  But like you basically had South Africa which was like one of the
• 44:37
  richest nations, you know, the the richest nation on the
• 44:40
  African continent, one of the, you know, great richest nations
• 44:43
  in the world. They had their apartheid thing.
• 44:45
  They decided to break down the apartheid and then they started
• 44:49
  doing DEI. So then we had to get instead of
• 44:54
  meritocracy, we had to have equity and inclusion.
• 44:57
  And we saw we can see how well that's going for us here.
• 45:00
  And it did equally bad there. There are a few decades in front
• 45:03
  of us, let's just say, let's Fast forward.
• 45:06
  South Africa is now in complete shambles.
• 45:08
  They can't even keep their electricity on.
• 45:11
  Niko. It's been this way.
• 45:13
  Some of my best friends came from South Africa.
• 45:15
  So in high school I remember hearing these stories and even
• 45:18
  back then there was areas where the police couldn't go to cause
• 45:20
  the crime was so bad. But anyway, now today it's so
• 45:24
  bad they can't even keep the electricity on.
• 45:26
  They have between like 12 to 16 hour power blackouts every
• 45:30
  single day in South Africa. So now they have no electricity,
• 45:34
  which means they have no commerce.
• 45:35
  They have no business like all their ports, like some of the
• 45:37
  best export ports in the world. They're all shut down, no one.
• 45:39
  They can't man them. They can't run them.
• 45:41
  I might be over exaggerating some of this, but they they the
• 45:44
  power shut down 1214 hours a day.
• 45:45
  So then their their economy's crumbling.
• 45:47
  There's no tax revenue, they can't fund the police, crime is
• 45:50
  ridden. OK, so it's really bad.
• 45:52
  However, the point that I'm making is in in South, in South
• 45:55
  Africa, there's little enclaves where people have decided to
• 46:01
  create their own power grids and have their own police.
• 46:05
  And you have these enclaves throughout the country where
• 46:08
  people are running, are, are living that citadel, if you
• 46:11
  will, now, not the lone wolf. What's happening?
• 46:14
  This is a very sad thing. I hate to even bring this up,
• 46:16
  but there's basically genocide going on down there and they're
• 46:20
  just slaughtering like the the the white farmers that are out
• 46:23
  on the farms, but in these enclaves they've built up their
• 46:27
  cities, they have their own power generation, their own
• 46:29
  police, etcetera. And so that's sort of a model of
• 46:32
  like what could happen in a failed state like that.
• 46:35
  And yet you still sort of have the citadels to your point.
• 46:38
  And I'm sure I haven't been to Argentina, but I'm guessing even
• 46:40
  in Argentina, Venezuela, countries that have completely
• 46:43
  collapsed, they still have these enclaves, these pockets of of
• 46:46
  people that are productive. And what's really interesting
• 46:50
  too about these pockets is like not only the the
• 46:53
  self-sufficiency but also the self-reliance.
• 46:58
  And by being self-reliance it shows that a large central
• 47:02
  government is obsolete. It's not necessary in a way.
• 47:05
  So yeah and and you hear that but usually in Venezuela the
• 47:09
  stories that I hear is is like the the very wealthy class they
• 47:12
  have like a, you know, they have, they still have
• 47:15
  restaurants they can go to, right.
• 47:17
  They still have you know, there's there's ways to live in
• 47:20
  in that location and not get as affected.
• 47:24
  So it's very, very interesting. We are getting to the top of the
• 47:28
  hour mark and I do want to be respectful to your time.
• 47:31
  I I do also want to give you the opportunity if you had a message
• 47:34
  to the simply Bitcoin audience what is going to happen in the
• 47:38
  next 5-10 years and we've been talking about it.
• 47:40
  But you know what? What's on your mind?
• 47:43
  Yeah, I would say, you know, I I mean I I kind of threw out some
• 47:46
  of this already. So might be a little bit
• 47:47
  redundant to say it again. But I would say one, everyone
• 47:50
  has to kind of take care of themselves again, right.
• 47:52
  We can't just hope and pray and and vote our way out of this.
• 47:55
  I think that's pretty apparent right now.
• 47:56
  So we have to build our way out of this.
• 47:58
  So we each kind of have to build up our own lives and sort of
• 48:00
  back to these examples of these enclaves.
• 48:02
  Even in horrible situations, people are still able to rise up
• 48:06
  and live the life that they want.
• 48:07
  So even as the world gets worse, you and I as individuals can
• 48:11
  still navigate this for our own benefit.
• 48:14
  OK, So with this, with this phone, I can learn anything,
• 48:17
  meet anybody, do anything. And so we can still be
• 48:20
  responsible. So we're, we're not victims.
• 48:21
  We can take responsibility for ourselves.
• 48:23
  We can build our way out of this.
• 48:24
  Now, once we've taken care of ourselves, like the airplane,
• 48:26
  put the mask on yourself. Now how do we help other people?
• 48:28
  Well, now how can we, as I said already build?
• 48:31
  How can I build or help other people build, whether it be with
• 48:34
  my money, I invest with them, I go work with them, I learn new
• 48:38
  skills so I can build. So one take care of yourself,
• 48:41
  then sort of help effect change. That's what I recommend.
• 48:44
  The the kind of talk I gave at both those conferences was like,
• 48:47
  you can't just go buy your Bitcoin and go sit on a hill and
• 48:49
  hope in 10 years that you're rich.
• 48:52
  But we need to build the ecosystem so that Bitcoin really
• 48:54
  becomes its full, true potential.
• 48:57
  And so I think, you know, one of the things I think about Bitcoin
• 49:00
  is it changes this incentive mechanism.
• 49:02
  And if we can store our value in a way that can't be debased and
• 49:06
  stolen from us, it allows us to focus on putting more value back
• 49:10
  into the world. And I think that's the real key.
• 49:12
  Take care of ourselves, take care of others.
• 49:14
  Put more value into the world and we can we can lift our way
• 49:16
  out of this. Again I'm super bullish on when
• 49:19
  millions of entrepreneurs are you know backs are against the
• 49:21
  wall. We know that the whatever the
• 49:24
  collectivism, socialism, communism, fascism, we know it
• 49:26
  doesn't work as Nietzsche said that which is falling.
• 49:29
  Xiao Yi also push. So let's just give him a little
• 49:32
  push. Take care of ourselves and we're
• 49:34
  going to be. OK.
• 49:35
  I 100% agree with that and you know the optimism build through
• 49:39
  it. Yes, if you work hard enough, if
• 49:42
  you believe enough, I think I truly believe that the world is
• 49:47
  kinda you will get somewhat what you wanted, but you really
• 49:51
  really gotta fight for it and really believe in it.
• 49:53
  So Mark, always an honor to have you on Simply Bitcoin IRL.
• 49:57
  Really, really appreciate you joining us today.
• 50:00
  Yeah, Nico, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
• 50:01
  Thanks, Mark. All right, guys.
• 50:03
  I hope you enjoyed the show. You know what to do.
• 50:04
  Smash that like button, Consider subscribing.
• 50:06
  If you feel like we provided you value, consider checking out
• 50:09
  Mark's content. It's incredible.
• 50:11
  You can find it at the mark at at 1.
• 50:13
  Mark Moss on YouTube and check out Market Disruptors, another
• 50:17
  YouTube channel that Mark runs as well.
• 50:20
  So guys, we'll see you back for the live show tomorrow at 12:15
• 50:24
  PM Eastern Standard Time. Take it easy everybody.
• 50:28
  Today's episode was brought to you by bitcoinwell.com, a
• 50:31
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• 50:34
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