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Future of Fundraising with Tim Barnes · Founder Mode

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I think a lot of founders really just leave that on the table and
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it's money that's set aside because it's just such a pain to
0:07
get to it. So they just go after the next
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VC round, the next VC round and keep stacking on dilutive.
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And since I've spent a lot of my time in healthcare and I've
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spent a lot of time in energy tech, these are capital
0:20
intensive businesses. So those founders are exiting
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with a sliver of their company left and non dilutive is just
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something that they really should be looking for.
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You're listening to Founder mode.
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The show where we talk to people building what's next, sometimes
0:48
by inventing whole new playbooks for how founders fund their
0:52
ideas. Today's episode's all about
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rethinking fundraising, how AI is rewriting the rules of
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capital access, and levelling the field for founders who think
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beyond adventure. Our guest today is building the
1:02
infrastructure for how founders who want to raise smart and not
1:05
just fast capital can do it without losing control of their
1:09
company. Jason, we've talked about how
1:11
capital strategies evolving, but non dilutive feels like the next
1:14
big unlock, especially with AI in the mix.
1:16
Yeah, exactly. It's not just about pitching
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investors anymore. It's about building systems that
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fine and secure funding while you stay focused on your
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product. Before we get Tim out here,
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Kevin, tell me about your non dilutive fundraising strategy.
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We're not being people. I think you can get in trouble
1:31
for doing that. No, in all seriousness, like we
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decided this time to bootstrap. JJ and I are just basically
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everybody's working for equity. And so it's like true founder
1:41
mode for the first year. We're just going to build the
1:43
company based on equity and putting in everybody's time on
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equity and putting in everybody's time and effort to
1:51
see where that takes us. I think for two reasons.
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One, because it's, you know, makes a good story.
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I think the other one is that with all the hype around AI and
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some of these mega rounds and crazy valuations, many times
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before even the first drop of revenue comes in, we wanted to
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take a more measured approach, right?
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Kind of to see, hey, what was this out there?
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Do we actually reach this product market fit?
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And more importantly, is it actually possible to bootstrap
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AB to B enterprise company in this model without having to go
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out for outside investors, which is typically what I've done for
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the last 20 years? Jason, you watch a lot of
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founders struggle to raise, especially those who aren't
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building an AI right now. What are you seeing that works?
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I just had a conversation with a founder few days ago who is
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trying to raise and having a bit of a hard time.
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He's like, I'm going to send you the deck if you can make some
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introductions. And of course, yeah, happy to
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help. There's one thing I've seen work
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really well. Everybody loves to send the doc,
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send link with the deck. Some people have their data room
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already ready and everything that's all cool and you can
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forward that stuff, but nothing is better in my opinion.
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Seeing the loom video where the founder has done the pitch
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overlaid the deck so you can hear their voice over and hear
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their whole story and hear their passion.
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And there was a viral tweet the other day of a product person
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explaining the problem they were solving with their company.
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You can just hear the passion and the intensity with which
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they're speaking about the problem.
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I think when that comes through, it hits differently for
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investors then the like, here's just another 10 slide deck of
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this is the problem this we're building that solves it and
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here's how much money we're raising and that's what we're
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going to do with the money. We've all seen a hundred of
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those. I think what's interesting is
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when you can connect it to like, but this is a specific problem
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that I've been thinking about trying to solve for 1020 years
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and like it's finally time the tech is caught up.
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I can do the thing. And so that's one thing.
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That's a piece of advice that I literally gave to founder the
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other day. And then, you know, look, I
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think the other thing that you know, as a marketing guy,
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storyteller guy, I really value the importance.
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We were talking about this the other day.
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We were working on a deck together and it's like words and
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music. Like it's really important to
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have the right language and the content of what you want to say.
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Having the understanding that being able to tell a compelling
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visual story matters a lot. So make a great deck.
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We have somebody on our team that does just incredible pitch
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decks and it's the difference between being able to raise
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millions of dollars for next round or not.
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Should we get going and learn about how to raise non dilutive
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capital? Yeah, I love it.
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And plus one in the loom, like we have sent so many looms out
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this year and I think a lot of them, I use them for demos and
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things of that nature. It's incredible.
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And it was funny. And one of them I didn't shave.
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And it's the one that everybody loves like, oh, it looks so raw.
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It is a very humanizing way to communicate over e-mail, which
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sometimes can be sterile. Cool.
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So yeah, Tim's a founder and engineer and investor who I
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worked with at Instacart and is helping start-ups navigate the
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world of non dilutive funding. Yeah, he's using AI to make the
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process faster, fairer and more accessible for every kind of
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founder. Tim, welcome to Founder Mode.
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You've LED product engineering at some of the most recognizable
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tech companies. We work together at one of them,
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and I'd love to sort of dig into how AI is reshaping fundraising
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and quite frankly, what that means for the next generation of
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builders. Thank you for having.
5:03
Me. We're stoked to have you here,
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Tim. Let's just get into it.
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What sparked your interest in fixing how non dilutive funding
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works? I think a lot of founders really
5:13
just leave that on the table and it's money that's set aside
5:16
because it's just such a pain to get to it.
5:19
So they just go after the next VC round and keep stacking on
5:23
dilutive. These are capital intensive
5:25
businesses. So those founders are exiting
5:27
with a sliver of their company left and non dilutive is just
5:32
something that they really should be looking for.
5:33
Like you're talking to 80 in the hopes that one will write you a
5:36
check. So it's the same thing in the
5:39
grant space. If you apply for one, your
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chances are going to be low, but it's expensive either in time or
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in money if you're trying to apply for multiple.
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So we've made the platform to make it easy for them.
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And you've worked inside sort of these big growth environments
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before. What made you realize like this
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was the right time? And then more importantly, like,
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you know, when people think about the timing of sort of
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going after funding like this, like, what does that look like?
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If I'm like, oh, I need to raise money, I'm like, I kind of
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forecast, hey, it's going to take a couple months, so I need
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to work backwards. Is grants in that same frame of
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a couple months? Or is it like no, I need to
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think in like a yearly funding cycle or something different?
6:18
Yeah. So it's really something that
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should be a forever on process for people.
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It's called non diluted for a reason, right?
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But it's kind of like raising capital.
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A lot of times I say it's more like a biz dev effort, like
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you're going after these things, you can constantly just be
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stacking these one on top of the other.
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So it's something that we suggested is really a forever on
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process. What I would shy against is
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whenever we have founders coming to us saying I've only got 3
6:44
months left at runway, what do I do?
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It's don't go the grant route. There's no guarantee and it can
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sometimes take 6 to 9 months before you're actually hearing
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back. What parts of the workflow have
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you actually successfully automated?
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We've done both the proposal preparation, so we're helping
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you find the right opportunities to go through.
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We have 21,000 opportunities sitting in their database right
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now that are all active, but it's really hard to find the
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right ones. But it's just a lot of data to
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sift through and even find the right opportunity.
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But then on top of that, understanding what do I even
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need to fill out in order to apply for this?
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So we've really automated that entire process on the proposal
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preparation side. But then for anyone who wins,
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now you have a whole another problem to deal with because
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you're dealing with a contract with the government.
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So you need to have your finances straight.
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You need to have your reporting straight because you don't get
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like a $2,000,000 grant opportunity.
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You don't get the $2,000,000 in day one.
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It's tranched over this, the life cycle of your period of
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performance. So what we've seen is a lot of
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founders fail. They actually get awarded the
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opportunity and then 90% of it gets clawed back because they
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fall out of compliance. What would you say are the areas
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that AI is not either figured out yet or just places where
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you're like AI is not the right solution for in terms of the
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kind of life cycle of this? Yeah.
8:07
So I think a big part of it is on the government side of
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things. You have to register for a lot
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of very terrible websites and they need to talk to each other.
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But if you have one incorrect thing, like if we put
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incorporated instead of ink on one portal and not the other,
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they don't match and now all of a sudden you get rejected.
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So there's a lot of that kind of stuff you have to sift through.
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Unfortunately, the government today still doesn't allow non
8:33
individuals to go through there. So it's not allowed for us to
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actually build web scrapers or anything like that.
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To actually automate that entire process.
8:40
They have to do it manually. Sounds like there's a market
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opportunity for you guys to go help the government side of this
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out as well, not just the applicants.
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So we are working with the government because we realized
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there's only so much efficiency you gained here unless we start
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fixing the other side. So the Department of War
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secretary just announced actually on Friday that there's
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a whole acquisition reform strategy that's coming out.
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Could you imagine compliance and reporting end to end in these
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processes? Or will humans always have to be
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in the loop? There's some amount of being in
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the loop because there's just an interaction between you and the
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program officer as they're asking questions and things like
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that. 95% of the compliance can just be automated end to end.
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What's a story that you could share about a founder sort of
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finding a grant or finding an opportunity that they wouldn't
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have otherwise without your platform or having AI filtered
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through this sort of bass? See.
9:36
So a good example is the fact that we started this thing and
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ironically thought we're never going to be eligible for grants,
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but it's really hard to demo the software because this is
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somebody score IP, they're sticking in there and we can't
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be showing other customers stuff.
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So we put our own stuff in there and figured we've revealed that
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and it turns out we're eligible for hundreds of grant
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opportunities and it's a huge biz deadline for us now.
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So we've now contracted with LA, Sacramento, Long Beach and also
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the state of Louisiana. So there's tons of different
10:07
opportunities that are out there for us in a huge pipeline.
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So we've actually shifted most of our outbound efforts away
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from companies and we're focusing almost entirely on
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going after government opportunities and working with
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universities. That just makes me think of the,
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there's all the built in websites like built in Austin,
10:24
built in LA, built in where like it's basically a marketplace of
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all the startups and the kind of the tech scene in those markets.
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And like, I don't know, it sounds like Scout could be
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literally the layer that wraps around all of the startups in
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each of these markets. You've written about adapting to
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federal policy changes. What's the biggest risk or
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opportunity maybe founders face right now with R&D and climate
10:47
grants and the kind of pendulum swinging of policy decisions and
10:50
policy making? A big part of it is the
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packaging. So a lot of climate companies
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figure they're no longer eligible for opportunities, but
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that's because they're only looking at Department of Energy,
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that the DoD is actually a huge funder of climate opportunities,
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a huge funder of healthcare, a huge funder of biotech.
11:09
So if they're only looking at one agency, these things are
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cyclical. But it's also then in the
11:14
packaging. And when you actually are
11:16
responding to this, it is not climate, it is energy dominance,
11:20
energy independence. That's the phrasing that you're
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talking about and making sure that we have a secure energy
11:25
future. And you're not talking about
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necessarily going after areas of funding for impoverished
11:32
communities that bringing more back to them.
11:35
You're talking about rural America and helping rural
11:38
farmers and all of that kind of stuff.
11:40
A lot of what you're focused on in your strategy is aligned with
11:44
administration priorities. Yeah.
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I think you lean into my next question, which is we've seen
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sort of the political kind of tide turn or waves turn.
11:52
I think Doge being 1 coming in with the current administration
11:55
and Trump, like how would a start up sort of position itself
11:59
for that? Or is it defines its positioning
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and then you're really adapting the messaging.
12:03
How do you think of that? Is the start up changing its
12:05
vision or positioning? Or is it really just the way
12:08
that you're sort of packaging and presenting that?
12:10
For example, one of our companies is doing like AI voice
12:13
and healthcare. OK, well now it should be AI
12:16
voice and healthcare for this segment.
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If you're not using this model today, like, what should you do
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to decide if it makes sense at all?
12:23
So in general, I wouldn't advise people to shift just so that
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they can align to a grant funding opportunity.
12:30
We do see that a lot. There's also what are called
12:33
SBIR mills, and that's all they do.
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They have no intention of actually commercializing it.
12:38
They just go after the funding and then walk away.
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Oh, if I pivot because this investor said that I should look
12:46
at my model in this different way, that could be something
12:49
that ultimately kills the company.
12:51
So we really think it's stick with your mission.
12:53
What makes sense for you? Because this administration is
12:56
not going to be around forever and all of a sudden you've built
12:59
something that the next administration doesn't want.
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So what we've done is also diversified.
13:04
So all of this change is happening at the federal level,
13:07
but we also bring in state opportunities, local government
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opportunities, private sector opportunities, as well as
13:12
international opportunities. I think a lot of times it's
13:15
really just making sure that you're finding the right outlet
13:18
but staying true to your mission.
13:20
Do you see governments catching up with all these AI driven
13:24
tools? Maybe with the kind of
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Department of War effort that you just mentioned, or our
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founders going to stay ahead for a while and be more on the
13:32
cutting edge with tech? Yeah.
13:33
So government's definitely catching up.
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They're building a lot of things around the AI today.
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And part of it is they have to, right?
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So that means there's half as many people to respond to
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proposals that are coming in the door.
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But with the advent of some of the large language models,
13:50
people are just throwing garbage over the wall.
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But they have to be reviewed by multiple humans.
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So part of what we've done, if we've actually deployed AI,
13:58
reviewing of inbound proposals to make sure that it stays
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consistent with what the agency is looking for.
14:05
And that's definitely something that a lot of these are looking
14:07
for. But DOGE has actually really
14:08
helped there. And then the Department of War,
14:11
a lot of those changes as well have really advanced the use of
14:14
AI within government. You've built stuff at scale.
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How has that shaped your approach to fundraising tech?
14:21
And is the tech that you guys are building, I'm sure there's
14:25
some scale attribute to it, but how have you thought about that
14:27
in terms of the type of scale you need for this business to
14:30
continue to grow? Yeah.
14:32
I think it's about really being cognizant of what we're building
14:35
and when this is the massive product to get off the ground
14:40
and MVP is not hacked together in a month.
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So it's taking us two years. And I'd say we're still in MVP
14:47
mode at this point. We can't do everything all at
14:50
once. But where are the actual pieces
14:52
that can turn into tailwinds versus headwinds?
14:55
And where's the competition going to be 5 years from now?
14:58
I think the competition five years from now, it's going to
15:01
look like a new flavor of scout. Think the competition five years
15:05
from now are going to be the foundation models.
15:07
So we need to be thinking of what is unique, what is
15:10
different, what is a way that we can actually provide that
15:13
defensibility for the long haul so that we don't get subsumed in
15:17
a year and a half when GTT 7 comes out.
15:20
And it does a really good job of these things.
15:22
The good news is every YC company is a wrapper right now
15:25
so I think you guys are up safe. When should a founder start
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exploring this non dilutive kind of option instead of just going
15:33
straight into traditional equity rounds?
15:35
I'd actually think it's something to do before
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traditional equity round if you can.
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And the reason I say that is investors really like the fact
15:43
that one, you now have external validation that what you're
15:46
working on is interesting because these agencies are
15:50
looking for the same thing. Investors are looking for a big
15:52
market, a good team, a good product, good execution.
15:56
That's already providing that external validation that this is
16:00
a great thing to be looking at. The second thing I think it does
16:04
is it shows people are being creative with capital, so you're
16:07
not just looking for a check that you're going to light on
16:09
fire in six months. You're going to be very
16:11
disciplined about how you're spending your money and making
16:14
sure that you're building a sustainable company that will
16:16
last as well. What's 1 lesson from your early
16:20
product career that you now apply to fundraising and is that
16:23
something that still holds true? Yeah, I would say it goes back
16:27
to being disciplined. We're taking on a lot as a very
16:31
small team, as a company that's only been around for two years.
16:34
We're working with companies, universities, governments and
16:37
building on both sides of the table.
16:39
So we need to be very clear on what makes sense and why and
16:42
when. The only reason we've really
16:44
taken on a lot of the work we've done on the government side is
16:47
because time is of the essence. Time is in our favor now because
16:50
all of these movements within Department of War are in our
16:53
favor now. But if we wait for three years
16:56
to start deploying those types of things, somebody else is
16:59
going to get these contracts. These contracts are five years
17:01
long, so we've missed the boat at that point.
17:04
So I think it's really like a couple things. 1 is really
17:08
understanding the market and having a pulse on the market
17:10
very deeply and not just going into a hole and only thinking
17:14
about ourselves and making sure that we're being smart as we
17:19
adjust to the trends in the market as well.
17:23
How do you think founders can balance chasing capital with
17:28
also staying true to their mission?
17:30
Yeah, We really say all the time that you really don't want to go
17:34
into this should be funding something that is already on
17:36
your product room. That's what brands are for.
17:40
If you are stretching what you do so much that you're just
17:43
moving this product into a different direction, it could be
17:46
the death of the business in the future.
17:47
Because now all of a sudden you have a skeleton of a whole bunch
17:51
of different things that are happening underneath the head
17:54
and there's no cohesiveness to the product.
17:56
So we want to make sure that if it's on your product road map,
17:59
that's what you're pitching and you're not just evolving it to
18:03
the needs of the solicitation. Looking out say like 5 years, do
18:07
you think AI agents will play a role in pitching or negotiating
18:10
on behalf of the founders? And not just for grants but
18:12
maybe even VC? Because I could imagine that
18:14
some point like this sort of idea converges of acting as my
18:17
capital agent. I definitely think so.
18:20
I think there's already flavors of that happening today.
18:23
You know, there's definitely like, I mean, look, we're giving
18:26
you an AI review before you submit your proposal, but we're
18:29
also AI reviewing it on the other side.
18:31
So there's definitely ways that it's happening already.
18:34
And and I do actually think it can happen within the private
18:36
sector market too. In Venture, big reason we
18:40
started Scout is because I found too many founders are either
18:43
ignoring non deleted funding or they're only going after non
18:48
deleted funding and never actually build their business.
18:50
But the same is true often times with investors, right?
18:52
Frankly, I don't think a founder CEO should be spending 90% of
18:57
their time talking to investors. I think they should be spending
18:59
10% of their time talking to investors, but it's not that way
19:02
today. So we really built this because
19:04
we want to keep those impactful people focused on our mission,
19:08
but I think the same needs to happen within the venture market
19:10
too. Tim, where do you see equity and
19:14
non dilutive capital kind of coexisting in the future?
19:16
Are they the same coin? What's the balance going to be
19:19
down the line? They still coexist.
19:22
There's a huge benefit to having a great investor on your cap
19:25
table. They're helping us with hiring,
19:27
they're helping us with customers, they're helping us
19:29
with more investment as we need it.
19:32
So there's just so many great ways that those investors can be
19:35
helpful. But I do think that the founders
19:38
that run into the issue are the ones that just only stay on the
19:41
treadmill and feel like now they just have to take any check
19:45
that's coming in the door. Because once you start getting
19:47
into the A's and the B's of the world, now all of a sudden you
19:50
don't necessarily have those investors who are on your side.
19:54
So now they can be even more distracting than just during the
19:58
actual fundraising process. Somewhat semi self-serving
20:02
question, but I'm running a startup today.
20:03
I'm a founder. How do I know that I should go
20:07
use even something like Scout? Is there like an easy mode where
20:10
I'm like, I just drop in my website or just find like the
20:12
ChatGPT version of my business and just be like, is this even
20:15
something that I should even try to go apply for?
20:18
Of the 21,000 things that you're aware of, is there like a sniff
20:22
test of, yeah, man, there's like a couple thousand that would
20:24
make sense or dude, like you're not building something that
20:27
makes sense. So help the other builders out
20:29
there that are just your chances be like an ad for Scout.
20:31
Is there a way that folks should just jump to your website
20:34
without having to go through some painful sign up to be like
20:36
is this thing like right for me or not?
20:40
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we built a fit check and
20:43
that was entirely the reason why, because we also track our
20:47
success rates. We track all of that kind of
20:49
stuff very closely. We don't want to cannibalize
20:51
that either. We also don't do marketing.
20:53
And the reason why we don't do marketing is because most of the
20:56
people who will click that link are going to be people who
21:00
probably are not a good fit. So we want to make sure that
21:03
we're getting good people in the door and using the platform and
21:06
not cannibalizing on the back half.
21:08
The fit check will be very clear with you and it was honest with
21:11
you to say, yes, you're good to go or no, you're not.
21:14
What we built in the actual matching side of things is
21:17
taking an information we already have on your business pitch
21:20
check or whatever it is that you want to give us.
21:22
And then we match you to the opportunities leveraging some of
21:25
the algorithms that we've written in order to do that.
21:28
So you'll see very clearly you have 50 matches that are
21:31
available for you or you have 0, because we also specifically
21:35
focus on more like high tech R&D stuff.
21:38
We're not focused on some of the grants that are out there of mom
21:41
and pop storefront in San Francisco that has graffiti and
21:44
wants it removed. You can get a $2000 grant.
21:47
So we'll be very clear with people like what should and
21:50
should not make sense for them. Tim, this is super helpful.
21:54
So if folks want to get in touch with you, where can they find
21:56
you on social media? Where can they go get more
21:59
information about Scout? Any special offers for Founder
22:02
Mode listeners? Check you guys out.
22:05
So special offers will give anyone who's coming in from
22:08
founder mode 20% off for the year and then just find us on
22:13
scout grants dot AI. We'd be happy to have you join
22:17
the platform. Great, So Scout grants dot AI
22:20
And where should folks mention Founder Mudd?
22:22
Who should they reach out to? How should they get in touch to
22:24
say they've heard about you from here?
22:26
Yeah, reach out to me on LinkedIn.
22:28
They deleted all of my other social media stuff because we do
22:30
business with the government. Dude, Tim, this has been
22:33
insightful. Man, this is super cool.
22:35
And I'll be honest, until I knew that you started this company, I
22:38
had no idea. I knew Grants, but I always
22:40
think of that as the like the Peace Corps, somebody going to
22:43
do volunteer stuff for Habitat for Humanity and never thought
22:46
of like tech companies playing in this space.
22:48
So it's been enlightening to talk through this way.
22:51
Yeah, we've run into that quite a bit.
22:53
And actually, so our biggest advocates are VCs.
22:56
So they're pushing our entire portfolio to us.
22:58
And that just really begins like the education moment for
23:02
founders realizing that you don't have to be a nonprofit and
23:05
there's trillions of dollars in grants out there that they're
23:08
eligible for. Awesome.
23:10
Thanks, brother. Appreciate you coming out.
23:12
Thank you. Thanks, Tim.
23:14
That was awesome. I literally had no idea you
23:16
could get a grant for your startup before.
23:17
I talked to Tim about this earlier and so super cool to see
23:21
that come to life. And as soon as we're done
23:23
recording, I'm going to go do a fit check on one of my companies
23:25
and just see if we match. That was super cool.
23:27
I like the double sided marketplace approach where AI
23:30
can solve the kind of application process for grants
23:32
and also help the local, state, and federal governments use AI
23:36
better to effectively process them.
23:38
What were your top five, Kevin? The key takeaways today, it's
23:41
non dilutive grants are underutilized, right, especially
23:44
with capital intensive sectors. Grants require long timelines,
23:48
so bad option for emergency runway or try to make payroll
23:52
next week. AI really can automate that
23:54
discovery compliance and also the government side to actually
23:58
review and process which ones are the best fit.
24:01
And then packaging an alignment with shifting administration,
24:03
right, as different political parties come in or different
24:06
sort of priorities really is understanding what is it going
24:08
to take to get success. And then Scout's funding fit
24:11
check filters or founders, right?
24:14
It really surfaces those high fit opportunities to find the
24:17
things that could be a good match for what you're building.
24:20
Yeah, this is a good one. If this episode really changed
24:22
how you think about fundraising, share it with a founder that's
24:25
navigating their next race. These are the stories that show
24:28
what's really working in modern entrepreneurship.
24:31
That's it for today. Because raising capital is
24:34
changing fast, the best founders are already adapting.