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Proclaim Liberty to the Captives: Is Anything Wasted? · The Brave Becoming

• Shaniqua Rischer: Hi everyone, welcome to the Brave Becoming. I am Shanika Risher, one of your co-hosts, and this is my other co-host. Tiana: See Anna? Aye. Shaniqua Rischer: Hi. So I am so looking forward to today's conversation and today's guest because he is actually a personal friend of mine that he just reminded me that we have known each other for 30 years. That's a long time. But before I give you all of the information about him. I do want to express my thanks to you so much, Damon, for doing this. I really do appreciate that. If you all on camera hear me slip up and call him by another name, just know that that's my nickname for him. But just knowing that I know who I'm speaking with. let me go ahead and jump right into the bio so we can go ahead and get started because I want to read this very interesting bio. Damon R. Davis is a criminal defense attorney with the Jocelyn Law Firm in Ohio. Born and raised in Newark, New Jersey, Damon overcame profound early challenges, including illiteracy until the third grade and the devastating loss of his mother at a young age. At 31, Damon was incarcerated in the federal prison, a life-altering experience that sparked his calling to the law. While serving his sentence, he began helping fellow inmates with their legal appeals, successfully advocating for one inmate whose sentence was reduced by 10 years, leading to the inmates' immediate release. After serving nearly five years, Damon earned his undergraduate degree from the University of Kentucky and his law degree from the University of Cincinnati, where he worked with the Ohio Innocence Project. He began his career as a public defender at Hamilton County's office, fighting for people in the justice systems with empathy and expertise. Outside the courtroom, Damon volunteers in his community. He coaches youth sports and explores Cincinnati's vibrant culinary and craft beer scene. His story is a testament to perseverance and the transformative power of second chances, making him an exceptional advocate of. For the unseen and the unheard. Thank you so much, Damon, for joining us today. And one thing that I didn't say in his bio, that I will say, and this will be, I will give you public flowers right here. He is one of definitely one of the most brilliant men that I have ever met. Excuse me, correction, one the most brilliant people that I have ever met. And I have for years have had so many theological discussions with this man. So I am so interested in today's conversation and I'll turn it over to you T and then we'll move forward. Thank you, Damon. Tiana: So here Damon Davis: Thank you for having. Tiana: at the Brave Becoming, we start with a signature question. And that question is, when did you first know God was real for yourself? Damon Davis: Good question. honestly, I can't remember a time when I didn't know God was real, honestly. but me personally the scriptures were always more than words on a page. You know, I was always able to hear the Bible again when I was able to re read the Bible and see life and connect it to life. just me personally. so I just always knew. Like it just always things always made sense to me. the miracles I witnessed as a child. my little sister was born crippled. They had to break her legs to for her to walk and reform And then my younger brother was born with the same condition. And I remember my mother's bishop telling her, Don't allow them to break his legs. God's gonna heal him, he's gonna walk. And my I remember my mu my father, my biological father thinking she was crazy, them getting arguments, breaking up. and my brother was probably almost two years old. And one day he just got up off the floor and started running. didn't didn't, you know, stumble and walk like most children. He just got up one day and started running. and for the rest of his life until Bishop Thomas passed away, any time he would go by that church, they would make him run around that church. Everybody in that church heard them tell her that. so for me, I always knew. You know, I was hit by a car when I was two years old, probably should have been dead then. So I've always known that God is real. Shaniqua Rischer: So you mentioned a lot of things as far as you growing up and your childhood and being hit by a car, which I had forgotten you had told me that. so tell us about the house you grew up in and the faith that your mother and your father put into you. Damon Davis: well, I grew up like you said in Dorgan, New Jersey. I grew up in the projects, for the most part. now you probably heard me say my biological father, the man I consider my father, that I refer to as my father, kinda raising me. He's not my biological father. He also wasn't like any way romantically involved with my mom. fact the bishop I mentioned earlier, Carl Thomas, he was a Baptist preacher at the time, pastor, and my Father as a Pentecostal minister. And he was the first person to bring him to New Jersey. He's from Connecticut. and he prophesied to my mother. My mother had one child at the time, my older sister told her that. I didn't learn this story until five or six years ago. I was driving my dad in New York and he hasn't told me this. And I didn't know this. But he was like, he told my mom at that revival that she was gonna have a son one day, he was gonna preach the gospel, and she laughed at him because he's like, I'm not having any more kids. and the next day she actually threw up and found out she was pregnant with me. And he came back a year later to run another revival and he said she brought me to church and told him, This is your son. so so until I was eighteen he was like my legal guardian. so but yeah, I grew up in in northern New Jersey. Know anything about North New Jersey, it's a very poor city. I grew up in abject poverty. probably part of the reason why I didn't learn how to read until I was almost nine years old. but I grew up in a house of faith. My mom was actually raised a Jehovah's Witness in North Carolina. so she converted as an adult. so I grew up in a Pentecostal environment in North New Jersey. my father Hebrew what we call a Hebrew Pentecostal minister. we kept the we observed the feast days, the heat the laws of Moses, that type of thing. the Sabbath growing up from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. so that's the environment I grew up in. Very strict bunch of rules. women can wear pants, make up, jewelry, that type of thing. Yeah. Tiana: So growing up in New Jersey, what were you seeing in the streets back then and how did that compare to what you were being taught and saw at home? Damon Davis: I think what I saw witness in the streets kind of reinforced what I taught was taught at home. Newark is a place that you see a lot of people who lack who who just don't have hope. and the Bible speaks about the fate of people who lack hope. Jeremiah twenty nine and eleven, he connects God connects hope to a bright future, right? so that tells us that when you don't have hope, that your future is bleak. Like the Bible is is clear about that. Newark's nickname is the Brick City. Y'all probably heard that. what most people don't know is that that's a drug reference. That's a heroin reference. and so every day of my life growing up, Shaniqua Rischer: Didn't I know that? Damon Davis: you know, I would see and there's one there was a time when Newark was the heroin capital of the United States. Like you s you probably saw it, didn't realize it in Denzel's Washington movie where he played the drug dealer, but that was a Newark detective who arrested Frank Luke Lucas, right? that opening scene in the projects where the guy gets killed in the projects and they try or shot and they try to get him to the car. That was in that was actually in New York. but you know, if you know anything about heroin and today, nationwide heroin is a big deal and people see the effects of it, but that was always a big deal in New York. So, you know, I remember seeing zombies, you know, growing up. Just streets full of zombies. created an aversion in me, like Even when I grew up and became a drug dealer, I never did any kind of drugs ever. Like, not even marijuana. probably because by the time I got old enough to distinguish between the types of drugs, I just knew I won't gonna ever let nothing happen to my brain like what I saw every day growing up. So so yeah, so in life every day I there was There's probably nothing I did in life where I did not see the hand of God, even when I was doing wrong. I remember I was at a drug deal in Kentucky, it was Nola, and they take me out to this farm, this white kid who grows like tons of marijuana, like the highest grade marijuana you could ever want to see. And he was explaining to us how he did this, like how he had this lab in the basement. And he only used female plants. and how he could reproduce marijuana plants just from female plants, and that's how he could get them without seeds. I think, how the heck can I? And he explained that process to me. Part of it was he talked about how he would play with the lights to make them think they were dying. Every day he would shorten the lights and they would think fall would come was coming and that they needed to reproduce. But they could only reproduce a female because these were females pollinating each other somehow. and that's how he created these great and I remember him telling a story and I mentioned the book of Genesis and how God created these plants and told that they would reproduce and that that would never stop, right? And people looked I remember people looking at me like, Man, are you really talking about the Bible at a drug deal? So so so yeah, you know, people looked at me like I was crazy. Shaniqua Rischer: That that's so brief moment. I did not know what Brick City meant. I thought it meant just because concrete jungle the concrete jungle the projects, the building. I did not know. Yeah, I did not know that was a hero. Damon Davis: That's what people think. Yeah, that's a heroin reference. Heroin are sold in little bundles that they call bricks. And so these little tiny baggies and you see all over you would see all over the ground everywhere. These little bricks like Shaniqua Rischer: Did not know. Okay, so you you've you've you told us and you've spoken a little bit about your drug charges, and we're gonna get to that a little bit Damon Davis: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua Rischer: later. But I have a question for you. because again, we've known each other for a number of years, and so I know your personal story. you were one of my dearest friends. But Proverbs twenty-two and six says that you train up a child in the way that he should go, that when he is old, that he will not depart. based on your journey. And upon reflection, do you feel that you departed and from your mother and what she's planted in you, What did you hold on to? Damon Davis: I'm gonna say this, my mom abhorred drugs. Like she abhorred drugs, like abhorred it. so in that sense, you know, she would have definitely been ashamed. I remember like when my mom would leave out for church on Sundays and we'd be on our way to the bus. The drug dealers got to the point where they knew what time she came out the house and they would leave the block. put away their drugs out of respect for her. I honestly, and it's gonna sound crazy to a lot of people, I don't feel like I departed because my walk wasn't one of disobedience. It was one of rebellion. so and and there's a this there's a big distinctional difference in those two things. Shaniqua Rischer: Can you talk about that for a second? Damon Davis: Yeah. disobedience is Thinking that you have a better way. Right? God said, Do this. I think God might be wrong. I'm gonna do it my way, then you find out your way ain't better. Rebellion is acknowledging God, acknowledging his way is right, acknowledging that that's the way you should do it. And it's a I'm gonna do it my way anyway, right? so so I never got to and that's why I say I didn't depart, because I never got to a point where I failed to acknowledge God or that his way was right. ever. I think my issue really was vision. And church taught me the importance of vision. but what church I think often did not teach does not teach us properly or enough is the importance of mission to every vision. a vision without a mission is just a wish list. and a visionless mission is just camping, it's just a camping trip through the wilderness, right? So every vision needs a mission attached to it, or it's really not a vision. And any mission without a vision is just a a a gant through the wilderness. and that hit home for me when I was in prison and I was watching a manpower conference. And bishop out of Baltimore, John Cherry, I actually wrote it down, I had it in my wallet for years. Something he said. He said, Never Abandon your vision because your plan fails. You don't need a new vision. You just need a new plan. And I carried that with me. And I remember I met T D Jakes about maybe two years after I got out of prison and I pulled that out of my wallet and showed him that I wrote that down when I was in prison and thanked him for that conference. so I always had a vision for my life, Shaniqua Rischer: What's the vision? Damon Davis: similar to what I'm doing now. Always had a vision about business. matter of fact, even when I was selling drugs, I was actually researching going back to school and possibly even law school at that time, in 2005. two days before I got arrested, I signed a lease to open a sports bar. Gave that man four hundred thousand dollars in a bag and guess what? I ain't never seen that money. Tiana: Yeah. Damon Davis: Well what can I do? It was for the lease. So I was like, Shaniqua Rischer: Right. Damon Davis: well he might have kept that building empty for the four years, four or five, whatever it was I saw for, but I'll never know I was locked up, right? so so I don't feel like I departed to answer your question. And as far as what my mother planted into planted in me that I think I held on to, even through prisoners, hope. I just never lost hope. My mother just had this unbelievable hope for life and for my future, her children's future. that sometimes I didn't even understand. You know, we were working on food stamps, eating government cheese and trying to eat government peanut butter. It was too thick. but she never lost hope. The things she would tell me about my life and what I would be. Sometimes I thought was crazy. and other people definitely thought was crazy, right? but today with the stuff she used to speak over our life is true. My my my baby sister is a state legislator in New Jersey. she's doing well in life. She's also a sheriff's deputy. so you know, this woman from the South who raised four children by herself, whose father is the child of slaves and people You know, pe I know people think slavery was a long time ago. My grandfather, not my great grandfather. My grandfather was born in 1892. his parents were actually born slaves. He was 61 when my mother was born. So so my mother had old parents. so I'm the grandchild, the great grandchild of a man who And so I I kinda chuckle sometimes when people say slavery was so long ago. People actually know their great grandparents. I never met mine, obviously. but yeah. so I never lost hope. Even when I was sitting in the cell by myself, like when I was in the county jail and I realized the only way out was to snitch on people and I knew I wasn't gonna do that. I was already planning on what I might do when I get when I got done with high level. So Tiana: So with your mom being such a pillar in your life and her passing when you were just a young adult and being released into the world, what happened to your faith then? Damon Davis: I guess I was angry. I I I I I was definitely angry, but as far as my faith, I can look back now and say that was the beginning of God purging religious dogma out of me. because the path he took me on is ki often contrary to religious to religion. and I tell people this, the only thing that's powerful, and there's nothing the Bible teaches more powerful than God's word, right? But there is one thing that Jesus said that could actually nullify God's word. In Mark seven thirteen, he talks about how the doctrines of men nullifies God's word. and that word that he uses that is used in the Greek to mean that means strips it of authority, right? So the only thing in the Bible That can nullify God's word. A quarter of Christ is religion. and sometimes when I even when I look back on my own walk, I I see how sometimes we when what I was saying or how I was reading the Bible was adding up with what they were saying should be going on, how that kind of created tension for me that sometimes I would tune things out. and it's interesting because I told you my mom grew up Jehovah's Witness. I was at one of my uncle's funerals a few years ago, and I asked my only surviving uncle. my grandparents have 13 kids. I got an uncle and aunt left now, about how did everybody go from being Jehovah's Witness to Protestant? because just my aunt, who's about 90 now, she's the only Jehovah's Witness left. And he told me that my uncle Luke, who eventually became a pastor. in New Jersey. it's actually the reason my mom met my biological father. That one day they went to the Kingdom Hall. He said he was your uncle was a lot you a lot like your uncle, like you asked a lot of questions. Luke was that way. He said, Me and your mom, we just went to the Kingdom Hall, whatever they said, we just you know, whatever. But you couldn't just say anything to your Uncle Luke. And he said so he had a friend there, a young girl that they grew up with. He said it wasn't nothing like going on between them. They were just friends. So they would just see each other at the Kingdom Hall. And he said when they were about fifteen the young girl got pregnant. And when they showed up to the Kingdom Hall that day, they told my uncle, she was sitting in the back, he wanted to sit next to her, and they told him he couldn't sit with her. And he was like, Wow, well, because she's having a baby. And that didn't make sense to him. So they said he said, Your uncle opened the Bible. Started asking them questions, like show me in the Bible where my friend needs help. And the Bible tells me that I ought to shun her. He said it turned into a big old deal. And you know, he disrupted the service. And on the drive home that day, he said, he told my daddy, I ain't going back. He said, He said, My grandfather said, Okay, Luke. And that was the end that. and so my uncle moved when he moved to New Jersey. he joined a a church where my aunt, my paternal aunt. was a member of and then my my mom came to visit him one summer when she was still in high school and she met my dad there. and after she graduated while got done with high school, she eventually moved up there. So and interestingly enough that uncle and that auntie both eventually became pastors. So I'm different Tiana: Mm. Damon Davis: size of my family. Shaniqua Rischer: I I I I can I ask two quick questions because it's so Damon Davis: Sure. Shaniqua Rischer: interesting and it's not on the number number one, I'ma ask them in the order that you said them. Number number one, why wasn't you gonna snitch? And then number two, you last week we talked about the rules of religion and again from knowing you, you have always been you will push back, you will question. And it seems like that is a part of your DNA as well. But why is that so central, do you think, to who you are? that pushback against rules, not even necessarily the rules of religion, but just pushing back. And I know I'm going all over the right place, but yeah. Don't forget why you went snitched though. Damon Davis: Yeah, I think I think it's I think I think God understands what he put you here for. not everybody is built to be a criminal defense attorney. I there I've been doing this for four years. I can't say how many people who came into this with me on law school and they've already burnt out. Like they they build something else. the pushback is something you gotta enjoy doing, right? and I hate to say it, a lot of them are white. most lawyers are white. Five percent of us are black, right? but I I me and a black attorney, female attorney I was hired with, we think we figured out why they burn out so fast. And she's one thing she said is it's the first time in their life they've been treated like niggas, right? You walk in the courtroom, your whole life you've been the smartest, the brightest, everybody been patting you on the back, then you walk into this courtroom and you represent black and brown people. Nobody cares how smart and bright you are and how How much better your argument is more. You know, they're gonna rule again and they can't take that, right? They're here to change the world and think they're gonna change the world. And then they get a reality check. We don't show up thinking we're gonna change the world, right? My job is to help this guy right now that I'm here for right now. so yeah. so I think Shaniqua Rischer: And then why weren't you gonna snitch? Damon Davis: that's just not in my DNA. I always, even when I was doing that, I knew how much time I faced. based on how much drugs I had at one time. So for instance, at that time, if you had five kilos or less of cocaine and you had no prior offenses, you had a five year mandatory minimum. Right? so I had a rule. You would never catch me with more than five kilos of cocaine. because I'm willing to do five years. so so it's Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah. Damon Davis: just about So and I remember the night the police came into my house, they tried to scare me. Hey, they knew everything about me, you know. we know you from New Jersey, we didn't know nothing about you, Mr. Davis. You just help us out, we put you back on the plane, send you back in New Jersey, nobody ever knows nothing. I said, nah, man, I'm good. I already got a lawyer. And he goes, Man, you looking at five years for this marijuana? You looking at five years for this cocaine. You looking at five years for this crap. You looking at fifteen federal years right here. And I remember I looked at him, I said, I'm assuming most people you arrest don't know what concurrently means. And when I say this man got pissed and I he slammed me on my head and everything, right? you think you're a smart ass, right? So so knowledge is power, you know, and that would have worked on most people. But I knew that all these sentences would be read concurrently if I were to be convicted of all of So I'm looking at five years, my guy. So So yeah. Tiana: Hmm. So okay, how does someone raised up in a church end up in the street? Like where where did that part start? Damon Davis: Well I think the question begins with a false premise. that I was raised in church. I was raised in the streets. I was molded Tiana: Yeah. Damon Davis: in the church. And and there's a difference. and I think Shaniqua Rischer: All right then. Damon Davis: one one of the disservices that religion does is it tends to convince you you need to separate yourself from where you come from. Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Damon Davis: the things I've always thought was amazing is when I believe it's Isaiah six when he gives you his initial commission, his calling. And he sees he's in the temple and he's at the throne of God. And and this is a prophet, like one of the greatest of all prophets, right? So it would be easy for him. Anybody today that I know of have a vision like that and they're the throne of God, they're gonna elevate themselves, right? You know. They're gonna say that's a reason to give me a greater platform than the people. But Isaiah says, Woe unto me, for I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips. So what he says is I'm no different than the people I'm I live amongst, right? He refuses even in that moment to separate himself from his people. and so church molded me, yes. church gave me, taught me the importance of vision, but the streets did raise me. and when I talk about like seeing always mentioning God, like even at that drug deal, the Bible says, and this is where religion would be offended sometimes. The Bible says, In all thine ways, acknowledge him. Right? Don't say when you're doing good things, the good ways or the righteous ways, or way God said in all thine ways. the Bible is true. Then religion will teach you there are times when you shouldn't do that. And I think that's part of the reason why oftentimes the world prospers and is blessed more than the people of God. Because I went to rap concerts and saw DMX acknowledge God, even while he was Tiana: Mm-hmm. Damon Davis: high and drunk, right? and and and it's crazy, but that woman who anointed that prostitute anointed Christ didn't have to repent first. Right. She didn't she she didn't have to become a believer before she did that. and today religion will have you believe that there's certain things Shaniqua Rischer: Can you name the prostitute? Can you name that part? Damon Davis: She's nameless. I know we like to say it was Mary Magdalene, but Mary Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Damon Davis: Magdalene was a prostitute. she had money. but but that prostitute is nameless. She's just a woman of sin, right? who the man of the house didn't want it, who the man who the house thought it was beneath Jesus to let her touch him. but that's religion. so It's never it was never a conflict for me. To do things like that. And Christ understands that dichotomy of life. And I tell people this we tend to romanticize the gospels. We see all these people around Jesus and we think, these drunks, these prostitutes, or they all converted. He changed their lives instantly. but the Bible explicitly tells us that's not the truth, right? In his in his ministry, he came across thousands of people, nine thousand in just two episodes. He fed five thousand in one episode and 4,000 and another, right? And then John tells us if he put every miracle in the person he healed, it wouldn't be enough books to record it. Yet fifty days after his death, the book of Acts tells us all the believers were in one place. And there were only 120 of them, right? So what happened to the prostitutes? What happened to the drunks? What happened to all those people who was followed? Life happened to those people. And while religion may not Understand that God does, that life happens. Tiana: Mm. Shaniqua Rischer: With your journey, and you know the story of the prodigal son, and the the boy that you were molded to be in the church, and the man that you grew up to be, and in that in-between, the in-between, I'm speaking to that particular man right now. was there a part that you didn't recognize yourself? Damon Davis: Mm. Probably took a when I got to a place where violence, when I had no choice but to choose violence. you know, arrogance will have you thinking I'm I'm about to explain it. I'm Shaniqua Rischer: What does that mean, sir? Well you had no choice but to choose violence. Damon Davis: I'm about to explain, I'm about I'm gonna explain it. Arrogance will have you thinking that you can succeed where all others have failed, that you can create your own rules and change the way things are done. but this game has its own rules. And and there are there are times where if you're gonna do this and succeed in it, then you have to play by the rules. Which means if somebody tests you, you gotta somebody rob you, you gotta go see that person, you know. if somebody rips you off, whether it's a man or a woman, they gotta pay. All right. so, you know, I remember I had to pistol whip a woman, just as in the message in the crackhouse. and that's just the rule Shaniqua Rischer: You didn't have to, Ray. You didn't have to, but I'm listening to you. By the rules. I get it. I get it. Damon Davis: No, no, by those rules you and that's what you don't understand. By those rules you have to. By those rules you have to. There's no she knew when she did what she did, what the consequences was. Right? but even then, in those moments, God was with me. I remember there was a guy who ripped me off and drove off with some people he brought to me. And I didn't know the guy, somebody introduced us. And the guy who introduced us called me one day and was like, I think I think he's wherever. He wasn't there, but he told me that's where he'd be. So it was these two girls I knew, they was twin sisters and they knew who he was. I said, I promise now this guy ripped me off of eighty dollars. I told him. And this is how You can deceive yourself sometimes and and do stuff that makes no sense. So I told him, I said, listen, if you see him and call me and I get here while he's still here, I will give y'all $500 apiece. I'm willing to give them a thousand dollars for somebody to get at somebody who ripped me off for 80 bucks. Okay? That don't even make that don't even on no business level does that make sense, right? You just write that loss off, right? You just write that loss Shaniqua Rischer: But it was the principle of the matter. Damon Davis: off, right? That's a loss you just write off. So I remember one day they called me a couple of months like, You still got that money for us? I'm like, yeah, where he at? He's in his apartment right now. So I run up over there. I'm I'm flying through the streets to get him. I I get and that's been months since I've seen him. And I don't remember what he looks like. So I call my and he convinced me, man, that wasn't me, family. I'm telling you, it wasn't me. Yada yada yada, I promise you. And I'm not sure, but I want to kill this dude when I see him. And I'm not gonna do it unless I'm certain. So I'm like, okay, I ain't sure. I'm about to walk away. And I called the guy who knew him. No, I didn't call him. I was just gonna walk away. And he walks up on me and he goes, We got off on the wrong foot. Let me introduce myself. And he said this word. I remember he said FAMO. And that was the word the guy used that night when I met him. And that was the dead giveaway. So I like I literally hit him in the mouth with the butt of my gun. He's lying on his back bleeding. I'll never- I got my gun literally in his mouth. These girls are now crying. Please don't kill. Like, and I look, the only reason I ain't pulled the trigger, they won't leave. I'm like, Y'all gonna be putting this again. I need y'all to leave. And they just stand in there crying, right? Like, get out of here. And finally, like, I pick up the gun and they take off running. Like, I'm pointing at they take off running, right? And I put the and he's he's pleading this camp like, nah, nigga, I know you're lying now. Like, and I will never forget this. It's it's in the middle of the day. It's like two o'clock in the afternoon. Sunbeaming, and I see this big giant hand. The shadow of this big hand descended down on me. I'm laying on top of this man. And I'll never forget it. It was like the biggest hand I have ever seen in my life. I don't even want to look up and see the body attached to this hand. Like that's how big it is. I'm thinking there's somebody helping him. And it wrapped itself around my hand and the gun. And his hand was so big I couldn't see my hand or the gun. And I look up and it's this gigantic old black man. And with this soft voice, he said, Young brother, you don't want to do that. I just did thirty years in prison for killing a man. And I promise you, like his voice was so calm. And now I got another witness too. So I'm like, So I get up. I'm walking off with this old man, he talking to me. And I'm like, all right, man, I got whatever. He said, So how about you take me to lunch now? I'm like, what? So I done took this man he said, I said, I'm gonna buy you lunch after this. He said, cheaper than a lawyer, I promise you that, right? So Shaniqua Rischer: Ha ha ha Damon Davis: now I done took this old man to lunch at Waffle House. me to ruin my own life right there at that night, right? I pulled that trigger, I ain't getting out of prison, right? So those moments like that where I would say, Yeah, I didn't recognize myself. I wasn't a violent person growing up, you know. I would fight if I had to. Sometimes the street, you know, somebody hit me. or mess with my sisters, yeah. But outside of that, you know, you had to really provoke me to to get me to physically get viral. Shaniqua Rischer: story. I l I I love your story. Tiana: I do too. I do too. That's like an angel in disguise moment right there. Like like literally. Literally. Damon Davis: Facts. Thanks. I don't Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Damon Davis: even know where that man came from. Like we in the middle of this courtyard, but there was nobody else around. I looked around be be I'm trying to get them to go and then I just see this big shadow of this hand. I'm like, when I I'll never get like, I don't even want to look up. I'm thinking somebody about to get me, right? Like, it's too late. They done caught me slipping. And he just had the softest voice. He was like, young brother, young. Tiana: Hmm, wow. So d Damon Davis: Never saw that man again. Tiana: definitely an angel then. Most definitely. So in Psalm 139 it says, If I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. Was God there in those years with you when you were in prison? And did you feel like he abandoned you or that you abandoned him? Damon Davis: I never felt he was definitely there with me. I never felt like he abandoned me or I abandoned him. I would always even study the b like when we divided my memory we divided my mom stuff up and sisters went this brother, only thing I kept was her Bible. The only thing in my mom's that I really said I'm gonna keep was her Bible. and I would always read that Bible. and that's important part later on when we get to me catching my case, but I don't I couldn't be here if he had abandoned me. I mean, I was stabbed seven times in the back. It just missed my spine by millimeters, hundreds of a millimeter, the doctor said. I was shot, pistol whipped, pulled over with a trunk full of crack and I was drunk and I'm talking to the cop like I ain't drunk, and I had a gun on me, and so I I I took the clip out of the gun. Placed it on the back seat and cop comes up tomorrow. He said, we just got a DUI checkpoint. And then I pointed the gun out to him. And he they forgot about every they forgot about the drunkenness and all so they took the gun, ran it, came and then while one guy's ran it, the other guy's talking to me. And I'm talking about the law and stuff like that. And they bring the gun back, they got it in a plastic bag, all the bullets out the clip. The next time just put it on the dashboard, Mr. Davis. Everything be fine. You have a good night. I'm thinking, man. These people would hit the jackpot and I was on my way to a strip club to sell some drugs to some strippers. Which is the only reason I was out at that time of night like that, because I normally don't do stuff like that. but my friend's wife, it's a bunch of people up here, Moopy Boop, I need you. Ain't nobody else gonna take care of me. Like she's gonna get cut out if she calls anybody else. Ain't nobody gonna pay her. I'm on my way. And literally I got pulled over, drunk as a stuff, and They had no idea. But they probably would have noticed if it wasn't a black man with a gun and they got so concerned with the gun. And they ran the gun, saw it was legal, saw I didn't have no felonies, that I was that I could legally possess it. And then they forgot about their little old D U I investigation and let me go on my way with a trunk full of drugs. So that was definitely God. Shaniqua Rischer: When I tell you you you are blessed. Like I know your story, but when you people listen to it like this ain't true. This ain't true. But Damon Davis: Yeah, that definitely God. Definitely definitely God. Shaniqua Rischer: but it did catch up to you at one point because you did Damon Davis: No, I mean, even when I got shot instead, I mean when I got shot, they I start I'm running away from the guys, they bump, they fire a bunch of shots at me, I fall, I get back up, I fall right back down, I look down, my leg is my foot is like this, bone sticking out my leg, and they run up on me, and there's two of them, and the guy says, finish them. And the guy puts the gun to my head and pulls the trigger, and it just clicks. And I this is no lie, I just remember looking up. And thinking, these niggas actually got a revolver? Like I thought it was a re the things you think about like in old moment. I was like, they got a revolver, we got a revolver, right? So he had fired all his book all six bullets while I was running. and so they wound up pistol whipping me, but that saved my life, right? Shaniqua Rischer: So fast forward slightly, Damon Davis: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: eventually you go to jail, you are in jail, and you are serving time and Let's let me take a step back. So you're in a federal courtroom, you were being sentenced Damon Davis: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua Rischer: around age of thirty, and you in in part of what I was reading in your in your story and your bio and the different articles, it said that you felt like you didn't have a voice. and that Moses and correct me if I was wrong on that, but Moses told God that he was slow of speech and that God answered, Who has made man's mouth? But when you got to prison, You started to research the law, you started to study. So when did you figure out or what was the turn where you started to think that God may be giving you a voice, not only for yourself but for others? Damon Davis: I always knew I had voice. I just wasn't allowed to use it in that scenario. Right? Shaniqua Rischer: Okay, okay. Damon Davis: So I always understood I had a voice. my mom's bishop, a man named Carwell Thomas, I mentioned earlier. that's one of the things he always cultivated in me. I remember one time I was in Sunday school as a child. My mom would be in the minister's Sunday school class. And we were talking about Moses actually. Ironically, that you bring this Whatever the son, you how they do this the pre-lessons, and it's already there, so the teachers just gotta go through what they done already wrote and kind of so she says, and I I forget what it was, but I knew it was about Moses, and she had an it they had an interpretation of whatever it was that was going on that I just didn't agree with, and I'm like maybe 10, 11. And she's arguing with me now. You don't know what you're talking about, damn it. That ain't right. This is what the book said. I said, I don't care, that ain't right. This is what was Shaniqua Rischer: That's very much you. Damon Davis: now we arguing and Bishop Thomas walks by. He's like, What is going on in here? She Damon is disturbing the class, Bishop. And he said, What what you mean, Damon disturbing the class? Like, what is he saying? And she told him what I said about the text. And he said, Damon, who told you that? And I was like, Nobody, that's what it says. He said, What do you mean that's what says? I said, That's what the Bible says. And I never he opened the Bible. He she tried to give him the booklet. He said, No. He opened the Bible. He said, He read the verse. He said, Damon, when you read this, that's what you see. And I was like, Yeah, that's what it says. He said, Come with me. And I'm thinking, man, I'm in trouble. Because my mama will whoop you in church. So he takes me, he's taking me to her class. He opens the door. He said, Go sit by your mama. And my mama jumps, Bishop, I'm so sorry. Whatever he's done. He Sister David, just sit down, Damon done nothing wrong. And she jumps up and he said, I promise you, said that he ain't done nothing wrong. Shaniqua Rischer: Today. Damon Davis: Damon, just go sit next to your mother, right? Go sit next to your mother. And the the the he said, Damon's just in this class now. And the teacher of the class laughed and said, Bishop, this is the minister's class. And I'll never forget, because my mama never let me forget. He stopped at the door because he was walking out when she said that. He turned around and said, Yeah, I know. He's probably gonna be teaching it one day. And he just left, right? And he would like do stuff like break me up on the pulpit from time to time and this is a man who had twenty five hundred members. He'd be like, you Danny could pass this church one day. And people would laugh, you know, and I I would laugh, like, what are you talking about? Like all these people, he praises bishop. but he always Huh? Shaniqua Rischer: But entering into the system that's that changes when you can use your voice though. Damon Davis: It can unless you know understand how. All right. I should have fired that lawyer. That's what I should have done. Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah. Damon Davis: but unfortunately for me, it was the first time I had been charged with anything. I didn't have a criminal history. Right? So even in the county, I looked up my charges because he was trying to tell me one thing and then he come see me. I'm like, man, nah. I they they tried to hit me with this certain gun charge. And so I did kind of use my voice and made him negotiate something. But he tried to tell me they had that they didn't have to prove a certain thing. And I literally showed him in the book, look, that's not what the sixth serpent says, right? and so so yeah, I definitely understood I had a voice. and he was trying to make me plead to 10 to 15 years, and I wasn't gonna do that. We're gonna go to trial before I do that. This is what they gotta prove. and so eventually, when he told them that was the hang up. they there's another way they can punish you for a gun other than the charge with a point the with the call they put so it it wound up working itself out to where I wound up with what I was looking for. Let's just say. Tiana: So in the Bible when we talk about the story of Joseph, even when he was in prison and said the Lord was with Joseph, can you tell us about the man in the prison library who taught you the law? Damon Davis: Yeah, his name was Clay and I feel bad 'cause I can't remember if it's if that was his first name or his last name. But everybody they called him Clay Bomber. This is like Obama was running for president and he was like the smartest dude on the compound, so they just called him Clay Bomber, right? you you black, you smart, that's the smartest nigga we seen on TV. You clay bomber now, right? so I do feel bad that I don't even I'm like and nobody knows. Like I talked to all my guys Like, was that Clay's first or last name? Like, man, I don't know. We just all called him Clay. and in prison, sometimes you you get called by your last name and that's what's on your uniform. All right. So I don't know. I can't remember if that was his first or but Clay was older. he had been locked up a while. I used to tutor guys for their GD while I was in prison. So he would see me tutoring these guys. And one day he just asked me, hey, and I was seeing with these big old books and a typewriter federal prison back then. You didn't even have computers yet. It's two thousand eight, two thousand nine. Like you still had a typewriter, ribbon, all that. Typo, you gotta go get some white out. retype the whole thing, like two thousand. Right. Yeah, so Shaniqua Rischer: They don't know what white out is. T do you know what white that is? Yeah. Tiana: I do. Damon Davis: he was like, hey man, would you like to learn how to do this? I think, you know, you might be good at it, you know. You seem like you might be smart and you're smart enough. And I was like, them big old books. He was like, Yeah, I've got I pass. He's like, You can make some good money. I said, tell me more. Right. So he taught me how to research the law, how to write a motion, how to help guys with their appeals. and he had been fighting his case for over ten years. He had a twenty year sentence. and so I would just be talking to him about his case. And he had what was called an enhancement. Remember, I told you like five kilos would get you five years, but if you had a prior, if you had a prior, which I did, your minimum would be ten. All right. so whatever the drugs he got caught with had a ten year minimum. But since he had a prior, it was now a twenty-year minimum. So he got a twenty-year sentence. And so I asked him what his prior was, and he said it was like a punk weed case, but since it was in Georgia, All he said at that time all drug cases in Georgia was mar was was felonies, even though it was marijuana. Just a low level felony that he got probation for, but it was a felony. And I was like, man, that's crazy. So I was like, and I j had just read an article maybe a year before that about how a lot of these states were changing their expungement laws so you could expunge a lot of these like mar low level drug charges so people would get I said, man, what would happen if we got if you got your marijuana conviction expunged? Said, I don't know. So we did the research and found out that if he got his marijuana conviction expunged, he could get resentenced. And so he called his sister. She called the court in Georgia and she was she when he called her back, she said, All you got, all I gotta do is fill out an application and pay fifty dollars to get rid of that conviction for you. And she did it and he we wrote the motion and well he wrote the motion. he's a great writer. Matter fact, the mo the the motion he wrote was so good when you're in prison you file something that's called pro se on your own without an attorney. they'll appoint a lawyer. If the court grants a hearing on it, it will appoint an attorney for you. So they appointed an attorney for him, and usually like he his case is out of Florida record. Kentucky. Usually your attorney might not even call you. What they do, they just call you at the jail, call your counselor, set up a meeting over the phone. His attorney flew to Kentucky to visit him. They came back with a visit. He Man, the lawyer they appointed came to see me. I said, What did he say about your case? He said, Man, he didn't even want to talk about the case. So, what did he come to see you for? He was like, He walked, I walked in, he I just want to congratulate you because you're gonna get out. He said, But the reason I came here is I want to know when you get out, will you come work for me and be a paralegal? That's how good his writing was. that the guys flew up there to offer him a job. when he got out of prison. so so yeah, so so he took about nine months. He got released like right after Christmas. Should have got out before that, but the government asked for like three continuances to respond, even though they didn't have no response because the law was clear. And I think they did it just to make him stay in prison. an extra six bucks past the holidays. but he got immediately released. Then I was the only person left at the camp who could do, you know, the appeals for people. Shaniqua Rischer: So then we come to the conclusion of your sentence and you are released yourself and you you're been stated that you came home with twenty six dollars in your pocket. Tell us about those first years. Who showed up for you? What were those first years like after you were in prison? And how did you even know what was the next step? Damon Davis: it you know, it really didn't matter what the next step was. I knew what it wasn't gonna be. I wasn't gonna be separated from my daughter. Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Damon Davis: Prison made me understand how and what type of people just continually go back to prison. 'cause being there wasn't hard. I'm playing softball, I'm playing basketball, the basketball league, I'm working out. I think I lost forty pounds while I was in prison. I took Bible study every day. the hard part about it was not being there for my daughter for me. That was the hardest part, was being separated from her. So I I just said I would never do that to my child again. put myself in a position where I could not be be there for her. So I just knew whatever I had to do, I wasn't going back to prison. far as like who showed up for me, you know, my sister. it's crazy 'cause I'm like I was I've always been the type I don't ask people for help. and I remember I got a I was in the halfway house. I got a job washing dishes at O Charlie's and I needed some black pants and black shoes. So I called her and I said, Hey, can you get me some black pants and black shoes? She said, Yeah I got and so she had to ship it to the halfway house and two days later I get like six boxes of stuff. Like all these clothes. I call like, man, I asked you for some black pants and shoes. Why you sit up? She said, Shut up, boy. Can't I finally do something for my brother for once in his life? Like so that that like I had to check myself on that was just thinking, right? so yeah, like she she she she bought me a phone, took care of the phone bill my first year out. her, my godfather in Lexington, he was definitely there for me. so People that I would expect. Yeah. No but those two probably the biggest. My sisters, my godfather. Shaniqua Rischer: So Tiana: So now that you're out, you've been given a second chance in the world. But did you believe that you have been redeemed by God? Damon Davis: definitely, but not because of what happened after I got out. My redemption happened before my fall. there's a there's a rabbinical saying that God creates the cure before he sends the plague. and and I I learned that from the ra rabbi in prison. just talking to a rabbi. either. and I think Shaniqua Rischer: Learning Hebrew? Who just learns Hebrew? I mean this Damon Davis: Yeah, biblical Hebrew. Shaniqua Rischer: who who just does that? Damon Davis: I mean when you're in prison you got time to learn all kinds of stuff. I'm serious, you got time to learn all kinds of stuff. but I tell people I think it's important just for me and my journey that I look like what I've been through. I know it was a big thing in church, people, I don't look like what I've been through. And I tell people that's not true ninety-nine point nine percent of the time. like doubt I think about Thomas and we call him doubt and Thomas, right? And because he told Jesus, let me he wanted he wanted to feel his waist and see his hands, right? But what Thomas understood that we miss is that this man was crucified. And I know where the scars are supposed to be after someone's been crucified. So a lot of times when people say I don't look like what I've been through, that only works on people who have not been what through what they've been through. Right? if you have an abused woman I ain't never been an abused woman. You might not look what you've been through to me, but another abused woman can know what what what cords to pull, right? What buttons to push because she knows where the scars are, right? so I think too often we try to hide our scars. And your scars are there to show people because somebody needs to see your scars. There's somebody whose faith depends on seeing your scars. Shaniqua Rischer: Come on. And knowing that you can survive them. Damon Davis: right, right. Tiana: Mm-hmm. Damon Davis: That God will resurrect you. Even Shaniqua Rischer: Yeah, yeah. Damon Davis: with these guys, Shaniqua Rischer: That was good, Ray. you know, your your story, the the pit, the prison, the palace, Joseph is is I see a lot of correlation there. But again, that's just me reading into, but also personal knowledge. Joseph told his brothers, yay, you what you thought evil against me, God meant it for good. In Romans eight and twenty eight gets quoted to a lot of people coming home from prison. When you hear verses like that applied to your life, what do you hear? Damon Davis: the evil for good part, I always think about the guy who wore the wire on because he was like family. I did more for him than he deserved. like a lot. so I always think about him when I think about that verse and how and he saw me do a lot of dirt and I'll never forget the first time I saw him after I got out of prison. He thought I was gonna kill him, right? but even before that, I was I'm close to him, was close to him, his family. his mom passed away shortly after I got out of prison. And I wanted to go to the funeral, right? And I hadn't seen him yet, right? It's been a couple years since I got out. I hadn't seen him yet. But this is the church little background that I walked into where the finger's gonna be and put a man's head through the wall for beating on my sister and same church I got stabbed seven times and partner like that. So Shaniqua Rischer: say was that was that beating, was that was that necessary but then beating on your sister? You know, your violence was always tied to it was an action to a reaction. Damon Davis: Yeah, that was necessary. Yeah, that was bad. That that was necessary. so so I called him. I never got his number from somebody and I called him and I was 'cause I didn't want him to panic when he saw me at the funeral because this is his mom's funeral and I know what it's like to lose a mother, right? So I just wanted to come pay my respects to her, her family, and I didn't want him shook when he saw me for the first time. and I remember him calling me, I shot him a text, he called me, and all he wanted to talk about was what happened. And I'm like, man, now not the time for that. Like your mom just died. Like, we'll do with that some other time. I just want you to know and he like he just wouldn't leave it alone. And so I and I could hear the nervousness in his voice. So I just didn't go to the funeral because I wanted him to be able to ignore his mom in peace. and I knew if I was there, that just wasn't gonna happen. I could just tell. And he started leaving me voicemails and he's crying. and the crazy thing is this guy I was locked up with, who's still a good friend of mine. When I told him about our relationship and what he did to me, he's like, Man, his life worse than yours right now. I promise you that. You in prison. And come and found out like he started doing like hard drugs, like he went through a lot, but so when I hear that, Thing about Joseph, what you meant for evil, God used for good. part of Romans 828, I tell people this like. People say, Where was God? certain situations. Shaniqua Rischer: sorry before before you answer that do you wanna do you want me to read Romans eight twenty eight or do you want to I just want to you give it in context so that that people give context your answer. Roman twenty Damon Davis: Sure. You can agree. yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: eight Romans eight and twenty eight and we know that all things that in all things God works for good for those who love him and who have been called according to his purpose. So within the context of that scripture please Damon Davis: Right. Shaniqua Rischer: continue. Damon Davis: So we we gotta understand what it means to love God. Jesus says, You love me, you keep my commandments, right? So I tell people, substitute keep my commandments right there. When you read that scripture, right? In all things, God works for the good for those who keep his commands and are called according to his purpose, right? so oftentimes we spend a lifetime Ignoring God, ignoring his will, and then when we get into a situation, we want God to like we treat God, tell people this, we treat God the way Lois Lang treats Clark Kent. And then when we get in trouble, we want him to pull off the glasses and the soup and turn into Superman and and save us, right? We ignore everything he says. Lois, don't go there. Lois don't we ignore everything he says, and then when we get in trouble, we want him to be Superman. And come say and then we don't when he doesn't, we question him, right? I can't tell you how many times about, man, I was just I was just out here trying to feed my family, and I and I would, you I'm I'm as raw as it come. I'm like, let's be real. All them cars you showed me and them rims and the jury, I ain't seen none of that with your family. That was you, right? All that flash in you just be honest about it. That was you. Like people say, I made a mistake. You shouldn't be crucified of a mistake. And I and I tell people you did make a mistake. You made a bad decision. And it's important to understand the difference between a mistake and a bad decision. A mistake is I meant to type R and I type T, right? Because I knew I was trying to do one thing and I did something else, right? And it wasn't intentional. A bad decision is I did exactly what I was trying to do. I understood the consequences of what was trying to do. And I did it. And now you're just trying to be a victim. And it the difference is important because when you understand that it was a decision-making process, then you understand that the same rule, law that applies that bad decisions led to bad actions that led to bad consequences, that the opposite side of that coin is also true. Good decisions will lead to good actions, which will lead to good consequences, and that's how you change your life. So I remember Tiana: Like that. Damon Davis: I got out of prison, I had a pastor who knows me. member of that church where I put the guy's head through the wall. Matter of fact, that's his niece who whose husband I put through head through the wall. But he said, Hey, Bray, Shaniqua Rischer: Are you catching this? How how casual he speaks of this stuff? Damon Davis: He goes, what you gonna say? What you gonna say to all the people? This is like I'm two months out of prayer. What you gonna say to all the people who knew the old Ray? Who ain't gonna let you forget about that? You know, the Ray who, you know, he named all the stuff. I was gonna say nothing to them people. He brought this up to me years later. He invited me to speak at the church at one of the nights. He goes, he says, he said, I told him I earned everything they said about me. And if I want a new reputation, I have to earn that just as well. And if my reputation was a good reputation and I did something bad and people want to give me credit for all the good, I'd have a problem with it. So if everything that they think about me is connected to street behaviour and the violence that they know me for, I earned that. So why why would I be upset that that's what they expect out of me? Right? so Tiana: I'm gonna go off script a bit. So, did you have to walk through any forgiveness and like what did that look like? Like forgiveness for your own decisions or forgiveness for of people on the street? Damon Davis: for the guy who did it to me, yes. Because I am I hold grudges. Like when I say I am a grudge holder, like I am a grudge holder. Like I don't know if it's a Gemini thing, two five with Gemini, you know, I let him know it's on for life, right? and just to give you an example of how bad I hold grudges, when I was in third and fourth grade, I I'm six feet now, but I had a late gross burden. Early in elementary school, most girls were taller, bigger than me. And the biggest guy in the class would always fight everybody, pick on everybody. And I just won't let you pick on me. So I would fight him every day. He would just beat the crap out of me, right? And I don't care. The next day we're gonna fight again. And so I moved away after fourth grade and I'm in high school. Me and my best friend go to my old neighborhood to play basketball, this open gym, and this guy walks up to me. He's like, Ain't your name Damon? And I'm looking down, I'm like, Yeah. He's like, you remember me? I'm like, no. He's like, I'm Malik. Malik was the bully. Right? So we play I told my friend, I said, Look, man, when it's game over, we're gonna dust this dude right here, right? So he don't know, he's my man. He'll know why I'm saying it. So game is we dust this dude, right? Security come running, we take off running. And Shaniqua Rischer: Wait, so what was the what was the cause? Why did you feel that violence was necessary then? Cause this was old. Damon Davis: Because this dude had whooped me every day for two years. You me. Right? So, so we take off running. We well, he said, man, what'd he do? I was like, man, when I was in third or fourth grade, I'm just playing. Then I I realized I'm walking by myself and I turn around. He stopped walking like a half a block ago, right? I said, Man, what's wrong? He said, Nigga, we whooped him for something he did to you in third grade. I was like, Yeah. He So so I am definitely a grudge holder. so I definitely had to let go of that. and I'm gonna tell you a powerful the most probably most powerful moment I ever had. When I got short, I told you I got shot, right? When I get out of prison, I move to the old neighborhood that I got shot in, right? Five years done pass, right? Almost six years at this point. I see the guy, not the guy who pulled the trigger, but the guy who says sh shoot him, finish him. I see him. I follow, and it's a Sunday, so the day throw content, and this is God. Day before I see a guy I used to sell drugs with, and I'm rapping with him. I'm like, I'm gonna come get you the bar, man, take you to church with me. And I'll never get we the church I was going to started at 1 30 in the afternoon. I see this guy, and I follow I follow him To his career, and I'm thinking, it's home now, my guy. Because I got by the time my leg healed and stuff, I got I caught my case shortly after that. So I'll never forget him. You feel me? I see where he lives. The only thing that stopped me from going to get something right then to go see him was I told my friend that I was going to bring him to church with me. And I kept my word. So I go get him. We go to the church. There's no lie. The pastor. Said he wanted everybody in the church to come to the altar for an altar call, but not just everybody just pray on their own and kneel down. So I'm at the I'm I'm at the altar praying. And an assistant pastor, I'm reminding you, I'm just a few months out of prison. I don't know none of these people. She kneels down behind me. We have never had a conversation in our life. And she says, now today she's a good friend of mine. And it was years before I even told her this story. She said, God said there are some people who have hurt you in your life and you need to let it go. And I try to say, You have no idea the chills that went down my spine. She's probably thinking emotional hurt, but she don't know what she's saying, right? But I know I hold bread. This is just knowing yourself. I understood the message she gave me, but I knew I couldn't be in that neighborhood, see this dude and not do something. So I literally broke my lease and moved. The next week. Okay. Like I had to because if I'd have saw him again, I would have been only popping. But that was God. Like she literally with the first words this woman ever spoke to me was God said there's some people who have hurt you in your life and you need to let it go. Shaniqua Rischer: okay, so we we are definitely this is running long and I want to get to before we get to our close, I do want to talk about this part because this is perhaps the most important part of this entire conversation. And this is where you are now. Let's talk about your law practice, where you are today, and how did your journey help you prepare for practicing Damon Davis: Yeah. Shaniqua Rischer: law? Because again, using the analogy with Joseph or the comparison, there was the pit, there is the prison, there's the palace. And so for Damon Davis: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua Rischer: me, this is a palace part of your of your life and experience. And God has even much more in store for you. But right now, let's talk about your law practice, where you are today, and how your your life has shaped to help you help others. Damon Davis: well I'm a criminal defense attorney in Ohio. I'm based out of Cincinnati, but I cover thirteen counties. Shaniqua Rischer: I'm sorry, can you just say that one more time? Like just after everything you've been through, federal Damon Davis: Say what? Shaniqua Rischer: charges, say that one more time of who you are. Pop your collar. Damon Davis: I'm a criminal defense attorney in Cincinnati, Ohio. I cover about thirteen counties for my firm. blessed. I mean the guy who whose firm I work for, like white guy. I remember the recruiter reached out to me to recruit me to his firm and I told her I'm up front about like you know, who I am. I don't just I don't just say I want people to know going in. So I told her about that, this recruiter. Like, hey, I got this felony, you know, you might want to let him know about this. I don't know how he's gonna respond. And so she's okay, thanks for letting me know. So I'm thinking she done told him. He calls me and she says he's gonna call you for a quick, you know, one on one, but then he'll schedule an interview with him and his office manager who is wife. So he calls and we talk for like she said it's gonna it's usually about five minutes, but we wound up talking for like fifty minutes. And at the end of it, I said I was surprised to hear from you, you know, being that she told you about me going to prison and everything and probably and I sent her an article about me. I said you can send that on to him just so he, you know, he got some background. But she didn't do none of that. He's What are you talking about? I was like, Huh? He's like, What are you talking about? So I said it once in passing. He said, Okay, and we kept talking then I mentioned it again, like thanking him. And he's like, Man, what are you talking about? I have no idea what you're talking about. So then it hits me like this woman ain't told him. I said, okay. I'm gonna text you an article. And so he I text him his article. Five minutes later he calls me back. Like immediately. He said, Do you know how good this is gonna look on my website? So it was like the perfect guy, right? and C didn't know I like, listen, I got this job. Like he said how good it's going to look. Not possibly like he already made up his mind, right? so so I think my journey, wait the the biggest way I think my journey, especially through prison, helped me. when I got to prison, because I've always been such a loner, I learned that I think you have we have we as people have a tendency to think that everybody's is similar to us, I guess I would say. Like every you know, and there were things for for me in life, anything I put my mind Who always came easy. Right? If I said this is what I'm gonna do, I it was easy it's always been easy for me to do it. Right? and when I got to prison, I had gained a lot of weight after I got shot. They gave me steroids, stuff like that. So just trying to lose that weight was hard, but I was determined I did it. But then there were other people, especially in the Bible study that I got to know, that taught me. That sometimes people really do try and they just aren't capable of it, right? And there was a guy who was actually teaching the Bible study when I got there, an old white guy named Arthur Hawkins. He was he's probably worth six, seven hundred million dollars. He was the CEO of the largest battery company in the world. and I remember one day, we did Bible study seven days a week. We were reading through hour of the old testament, hour of the New Testament, and repeat itself, right? That cycle will repeat itself. And I remember one time it was probably our third or fourth time going through the New Testament and I said something about a scripture. And I don't even remember what it was. I just chimed in and he was like he just dropped everything. He said, When did you get that? And I was like, get what? And me and him argued all the time. I'm thinking we got a problem with what I said, right? Like, here we go, we about to fight again. Like it was like Prison Bible study is like sword fighting, okay? It's blood on the table and stuff sometimes when when when the Bible study's over. he's like, That what you just said. And I'm like, Man, that's something I just always thought, you know, when reading the scripture, what do you And he said, Man, you don't have a right to keep stuff like that to yourself. Not a revelation like that. So he like went off on me about this. Like, we done read the scripture how many times have you been, and you ain't never said this, and that's been in your mind all. He was literally, and R had a true heart and love for the Bible. Like he was pissed at me. but I remember one day he came to my myself and he was like, Damon, you kind of remind me of myself when I was your age. And I never forget, I was 33 at the time, he was 66, so he was double my age. And he was like, You think that because everything comes easy to you, that it's that way, it's easy for everybody. And you don't understand when people don't get what you get. He said, You can look at something, process Tiana: Mm. Damon Davis: it instantly, and regurgitate and articulate your thoughts, and everything makes sense. He said it's not that way for a lot of people. He said, and I did not become a great executive until I understood that. Because I would demand stuff from other people because I could do it. And I couldn't understand why they couldn't do what I could do, and I just would write them off. and he said, So I went through lot of good people just because they weren't me. And I didn't understand that it wasn't for a lack of trying that they were doing the best that they could. so prison taught me that people, not everybody, and it it kind of gave light to for me to what Paul meant when he says those who are strong in faith should put up, should bear the infirmities of those who are weak, right? there are some people, no matter how hard they try, their faith ain't gonna go past a certain point, right? and I tell people this, I think there are some there are workers in the kingdom, and there's some people who have to do the physical work of building the kingdom, and there are some people who have to carry the burden of the faith of the kingdom. And I think that's what the story of of David and Mephiboshev teaches us. David when David divides remember David divides the the Saul's land between Mephiboshef and the servant who was taking care of it because the servant stabbed Mephiboshef in the back. Like, he talked bad about you when you left. Like he tried to get the the the he trying to get the throne. This is his channel. And Mafiboshef denies it. He goes, I didn't say that. Like you done you done took care of me. But the servant is a man of works. Mephiboshef is there by grace, and he is totally dependent on David's grace and mercy. And he has to have faith that David ain't gonna kill him because he is a legal heir to the throne, right? And David says, divided in half their estate. And this is the king's estate. And that scripture for me tells us that God's kingdom has to be divided between faith and work. There is an equal distribution. And everybody can't do both. David was one who could do both. Right? He's a man of faith and it man of works. I can pray to God and I can kill you when I get done praying. Right? Some people just don't pray. Some people just don't kill. Shaniqua Rischer: You're not gonna say that at this point in the conversation. We're not even finna explore that Damon Davis: I'm just saying, that that's just the reality. Shaniqua Rischer: part with David and our views with David. We're not even finna do that. That'll be a different conversation. Damon Davis: I'm not even talking about David though. David is symbolic of other people, right? Paul was the Shaniqua Rischer: Yes, yes. Damon Davis: man who could do both. Some people can't do both, right? Some people, there's some people who are gonna pray and pray and pray, and that's all they're gonna do, right? And them people frustrate me, but I learned that there's still a place for them in the kingdom, right? So not to beat them up, but to use them and put them in a position where their gifts are are utilized at its best. And there's some people who are just gonna do the work and be like, man, praying ain't gonna do no good. Somebody gotta go out here and do the work. And they and and it's not that praying ain't gonna do no good. They're just workers, right? and like for me, people think I'm crazy when I say in my life, this is God, I have never prayed for anything material for myself. Because I understand that God already gave me the world when He created it, right? I know how to go get money if that's what I need to do. I don't need God to go get money. Tiana: really blessing me. Damon Davis: So for me, I don't have to pray for materialism because God has give already given me the blessing to go get it. Right? He said when he blessed the world, he gave it to man. Shaniqua Rischer: It's giving you the max, the mean. Damon Davis: He gave him dominion over it, right? So I understand that it's mine. Go take it. Right? Tiana: from your story alone, we know that we can see that spiritual formation is not cookie cutter, like at all. So I have two questions. So where are you with God today? And what would you say to someone who has gotten it wrong and doesn't believe they can come back? Damon Davis: I think the best part of my relationship with God today is that my daughter and our relationship was very fractured for a while. Because what I didn't know is her mom didn't tell her where I was when I was in prison, never mentioned anything. So my daughter just thought her daddy completely abandoned her, right? For five years, right? and once you find out the truth, you can't just undo those feelings, those emotions. Like Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Damon Davis: you spent five, four minutes of views of your life feeling like your father abandoned you. so that was a very fractured relationship. today we study the Bible together. she calls me and asks me questions about the Bible. She has really developed her relationship with God. and so for me that's the best part about this is that when she was looking for guidance on the scripture, she was able to come to me. Somebody else told her that. Well, if you all these questions about the Bible, go talk to your daddy. so and that really did a lot to heal our relationship. what I would say that someone who has gotten it wrong or supposedly gotten it wrong, because I I kinda even take issue with that because I tell people this kind of with my situation. Sometimes the devil can have you right when God wants you. You say you was in the wrong place, but who says it was the wrong place? God determines where you should you know what's the wrong place in the right place. like one of the stories that just bla that blew my Bible study away in prison was my my mom's bishop, Bishop Thomas. I went to see him before I left for Kentucky. My the day before I left. I'll never forget this. I'm waiting for him in the best of you before he walked into church to preach, because he would always come out, you know, halfway through praise and worship. And he said, Hey Damon, nice to see you. Yay, what then he asked me, what you doing? I said, I'm about to go to Kentucky. I'm going to college. That's the name all this other stuff I wanted to do. He let me talk. He said, Okay, that's all great, but what you doing for God? And I was like, Bishop, you know, I'm really worried about my life right now and what I need to do. He said, Damon. And just no, he said, contrary to some of the stuff you might have heard me say in that pulpit, and some of the stuff. We as preachers teach that applies to most people, not everybody has free will. He says, You don't have free will. God has determined that you are willing to preach the gospel and say yourself. So my question Shaniqua Rischer: As long as you know. Damon Davis: once again is, What do you do? What do you plan on doing for God? And I gave him a cookie cutter, like you said, the quick answer. I will never forget the last words he ever spoke. He said, David, if I tell you, this is the most brilliant man I've ever known in my life to this day. He was the first black firefighter in this town. He was the first black cop. Man had a PhD. Man was just brilliant. if I tell you something right now, promise me you will never forget it. I'm thinking, Bishop, I hardly even forgotten anything you ever said to me. Of course. I said, of course I remember. He says, The Lord hires felons. And he walked into the church. Three weeks later, that man was dead. The word, the last words he ever spoke to me was the Lord highest felon. Shaniqua Rischer: The Lord hires feeling. Damon Davis: Which sounded stupid to me because I was a good kid. Like, why would you say something dumb? I was like, that gotta be the first dumb thing Bishop Thomas ever did say in his life, right? it was so dumb I didn't even tell my mama he said that she'd be like, What in the world? Right. So but that was the last words he ever spoke to me was the little Irish fellas. Shaniqua Rischer: And it was a prophetic word. Damon Davis: Right. and like I said, three weeks later he was dead. That was the last words he ever said to me. so I would tell people, Whatever you think we've done, it was just part of a journey that was necessary for God to use you in the way He wants to use you. there's no such thing as as long as you're breathing that you can't come back from. There's a scripture, I think is it Mike where he says he tells the enemy don't gloat gloat over me now, but the day will come when I will rise, right? in Hosea, he tells them he tells Israel that they're going to go away into bondage, right? He's gonna banish them from Israel, from the land, and then bring them back. And he says, In the same place. Where it said it was said to you, You are not my people. There I will call you my people. Right? And oftentimes we feel like we gotta change our circumstances, our environment, our situation in order to change our life. But God will do it in the same place that you messed up, right? The same mess you made, the same bed that you made, God will take you from not being his people. To holding you up an example for the world to say, You are my people. and the reason it's a testimony is because the people can see the scars, right? they know what you've been through. And and that's what I love about the Bible is the Bible doesn't hide the warts or the the misgivings of people. Like we know, even though we ignore the bad stuff with David, the Bible records it all, right? so the Bible doesn't try to sugarcoat or gloss over anything to let you know this is this man's life, this is the reality of it, and this is what God did through. Shaniqua Rischer: I'm gonna ask if T if that's okay, the last question, and then I'll do the closeout. I feel Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua Rischer: like you have already answered this, right? So from a brief standpoint, I'm gonna ask this question and ask your response. God said, God promised in Joel 2 25, I will restore to you the years that the locusts have eaten. We named this episode, Is Anything Wasted? So my question, looking at your life. to this day, and I feel like you've answered it, but I'm gonna ask it, was anything wasted? Damon Davis: Hard for me to answer that because I really don't do reflection well, I don't think. Like Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Damon Davis: also, I don't I try not to read the Bible from an individualistic standpoint. Because I I Shaniqua Rischer: Mm-hmm. Okay. Damon Davis: think that's toxic. I think our church culture has become so individualistic that we have no care for those around us, true Shaniqua Rischer: The community. Damon Davis: in the biblical sense. like, you know, no weapon formed against me shall prosper. That's not a singular verb in the Bible or now. It's plural. It's talking to the community of Israel. No weapon formed against you, my people shall prosper. Because let's just be honest, when you read the Bible, it was weapons formed against individuals that prospered, okay? I'm just that's just the that's just the reality, but the good of the people is greater than the individual. And We are so individualistic that it becomes about us. And I tr and that's one thing even when I was doing right to people tell people like even when I was younger doing crazy stuff in the streets, I would never mess with girls in the church. You were trying to do right, I just left you alone. You Shaniqua Rischer: That why you wouldn't mess with me? I'm just joking. Damon Davis: weren't in the church back there. Shaniqua Rischer: You're right. I wasn't baptized into after college. Damon Davis: But but I always understood I think the the corporate aspect of God's message of how it's really not about any one individual. and so, you know, God I'm saying God don't care what kind of car I drive or what kind of house I live in, right? so you would never hear me bragging about stuff like that or testifying about that type of stuff because why does God care? Right? What good is it that you think God blessed you with a hundred thousand dollar vehicle if you go to sleep every night thinking about suicide? What you gonna drive off the bridge and style? Like what what sense would that make, right? so so too often we go to God about everything but our issues. And God wants you to bring your issues to him and we come to him about stuff. And so I hope for the community that I'm a part of that nothing was wasted. And they're the y you have to judge it by them, not by me. Jesus says you know tree by the fruit it produces. So you can't judge me by me, because I'm I'm the tree, not the fruit. Right? so so if I if I leave this world one of the richest lawyers to ever live and the community ain't better because of me, then some stuff was wasted. Shaniqua Rischer: And there we have it. Thank you, friend. I adore you and I appreciate you. So tell us how can people find you and is there anything else you want to share about you, your law firm, if they need to reach out about a case, social media, tell us all of those details and it's it. Damon Davis: hopefully, you know, you they don't need to find me. That's I don't know at the end of every case I tell every one of my clients I hope I never see you again. I don't mean that in a bad way. but if you're in Ohio or you have a federal charge somewhere, I practice federally across the country. They can reach me. My business sale is five one three five four nine five six five two. so they're free to reach out to me. Shaniqua Rischer: You're getting the phone number out there. Damon Davis: yeah, it it never stops. So it's not a big deal. don't call me on no foolishness, I will hang up on you. but yeah, so that's probably the best way to reach me if you got a real legal issue, is to just give me a call. Shaniqua Rischer: Thank you. Damon Davis: Or a text. You can text me too. So Shaniqua Rischer: Thank you very much, sir. You are appreciated. Damon Davis: Thank you guys for having me. Enjoyed it.