Latest / The SEANC View / Sec. of State Elaine Marshall: Staffing Shortages Threaten North Carolina Services

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Sec. of State Elaine Marshall: Staffing Shortages Threaten North Carolina Services · The SEANC View

0:00
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of the Scenic View podcast.
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I'm your host, Jonathan Owens, along with Artis Watkins, the executive director
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of Scenic, and the podcast producer, Samantha Klein.
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It is April 29th, and we have a legislature in session, so let's get down to business.
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So we have a big show today. We have a special guest, Secretary of State Elaine
0:34
Marshall, will join us later in the little episode.
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But for now, let's just talk a little bit about the legislature and the short
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session. It started last week.
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We had an interview on the first day of short session with House Speaker Destin Hall.
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I thought that interview went well. What did you think of it,
0:53
Artis? You know, I thought it was great.
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I think that most of what he said resonated with our members in a positive way,
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particularly retirees responded very well to him saying that they just have
1:06
to do something in terms of a true cost of living adjustment.
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Not one you call a COLA, but it's a bonus, but a real cost of living adjustment next year.
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Now, obviously, everybody would prefer to see that this year,
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but it was a big deal for him to say, look, we've got to do this next year.
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Are they going to get a budget at all this year? That's kind of the question
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we're dealing with right now,
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The speaker mentioned last week the tax package is one of the big points of
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contention between the two because they have different ideas for whether cutting
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corporate and personal income tax will allow you to do the things you got to
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do to keep the state rolling on.
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Yeah. And I did forget to mention that it was our 100th episode last week. Yeah.
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We should have made a bigger deal about that. Really. Oh, boy.
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We weren't keeping up with that. But so big ups to us for the centennial episode.
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Is that the right word, I guess? I think so.
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Sounds good to me. Works, yeah. Just a whole bunch of talking for 100 episodes.
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So one clip that we did pull out of the episode last week can pertain to job cuts.
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Therein lies the problem. Yeah. I mean, the speaker was pretty upfront.
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We think there's going to be cuts.
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And we think that there's not been enough direction about where you can afford to do that.
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So I get it that there's a hangup some people have down there about jobs that
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have been vacant for a super long time.
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Agencies, though, have been coming on this podcast one after the other saying
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some of those that have been vacant for a super long time are because we can't
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afford to pay our bills as an agency.
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We're not getting enough funding to do the people's business.
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So we're doing the people's business. with less employees and using some of
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that salary money to fill the gap.
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That's a problem. We're not going to stop saying this because it matters.
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Since 2009, the number of state employees has not increased,
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but the population has increased by 2 million.
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So those folks, those overall North Carolinians are getting a lot less per person than they ever did.
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That's not good, and it's terrible for public safety and public health.
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So we'll get into that with Elaine Marshall as well, because she spoke about
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that in committee a few times, right?
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She has a unique perspective. Her agency is one that actually brings in money
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to the state, not to her agency. She gets a tiny portion of it,
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but her agency brings in money through fees.
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And it also signs it does the things required to be put into place for North
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Carolinians to start new businesses. So some of her testimony at the legislature
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has been super compelling.
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We need more businesses. We need more economic development.
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But not having state employees, enough state employees, impacts that as well.
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So it doesn't just impact public health and safety, which are so vital.
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It impacts the bottom line.
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So Speaker Hall seemed pretty confident that we would get a budget.
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I know it's the first week. Has there been any kind of movement that you know
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of on that? It depends who you ask in the building.
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It's a mixed bag response. I think they're trying hard.
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I do think they're trying hard. And again, I think if they could figure out
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the tax thing, that would be a lot of it.
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But I hope as they're hammering this out, and I do think there were positive
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things the speaker said last week that maybe will continue.
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I do hope that they'll look at state employees as seriously as they are proclaiming
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to the public they're looking at teachers.
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You know, teachers matter. Everybody else, by the way, that works in a school
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building is super important not to lose, too.
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But what's getting the media attention, because it's the sexiest topic, is teachers.
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Especially with their event coming up Friday.
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Yeah, a lot of school districts closing around the state so that NCAE can have a rally on Friday.
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And legislators aren't here on Friday, so it really doesn't impact legislators.
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But, you know, it's good that people have the right to come and have their voice
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heard in whatever capacity. We have a rally May 6th that's scheduled. Next Wednesday. Yeah.
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But, you know, we can't close state agencies. So unlike the schools that are
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closing, so NCAE can have the rally. You know, we can't do that.
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We have to keep operating agencies and especially places like prisons or HHS
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facilities taking care of vulnerable populations.
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And no one would expect that we would close those places. Can't just lock up the prison.
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No, no. So I'm suspecting, you know, there's going to be because of the staffing
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shortages, we don't expect.
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Some massive crowd. What we do
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expect is the folks who come will be super passionate about their message.
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It is on a day the legislature's in session.
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So that's the main goal here is to make sure our members get to talk to the
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lawmakers because we can talk all day. Yeah.
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And they're used to seeing us. Hearing it from the folks at home,
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I think is going to matter a lot.
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And I'm telling you, I still say, if I'm a lawmaker and the idea of losing jobs,
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state jobs, doesn't worry me, there's a problem.
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Because every lawmaker's communities would be affected.
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State employees spend money.
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And if you got less of them, you've got less money being spent in your district. That's a problem.
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Yeah, we're looking for a good showing on Wednesday. It should be a fun time.
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We have about 150 people registered so far.
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Listen, that's a lot better than I thought, especially considering the staffing
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shortage. I know people are very passionate.
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A lot of people are a little scared to come to a rally still.
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We haven't had one in years because people have been very gun-shy about coming to a rally,
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thinking if I go, I might be targeted, you know, as not just necessarily losing
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my job for coming to a rally or talking to lawmakers, but I might not advance
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in my agency. it might work against me.
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So I would, you know, my plea to the agencies and to the universities,
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everybody else that has state employees who might want to come is,
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please be supportive. If folks want to take their personal time and it doesn't
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cause a staffing crisis, please be supportive of them.
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They mean no harm. They're not going to hurt your agency. In fact,
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they want to help your agency by spreading the word that you don't have enough money.
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And if you can't come to Raleigh, We understand, but we do have an option for
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you. You can go to lobbyday.scenic.org.
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And we have a special tool there designed to allow you to reach out to your
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legislator through email and calls. And it's really easy to use.
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You just type your address in and it,
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populates for you, the address and everything, and you're just,
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it's really easy to use. So take advantage of that if you can.
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And for everyone else, we'll see you out there on Wednesday.
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The only other big story that I saw,
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and I'm sure there's a lot because it's just, there's a lot going on right now,
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but State Health Plan Administrator Tom Friedman, who has been on this show many times.
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Oh, he's one of our regulars. Yeah. So he told the News Observer that the plan
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is currently in its second year of a contract with Aetna, and it projects that
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it will spend more than a billion dollars over what it had originally planned
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for the three-year contract.
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Yeah, well, I mean, costs. He's been clear on this podcast that costs,
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in terms of, when I say costs, I mean the sticker price,
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what we're paying for these services is apparently so doggone high in some cases,
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you could take people to their appointments and limos from around the state and still,
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you know, if you went with something like Lantern,
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this new program they have, still save money.
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So we know we're paying, in some cases, outrageous and disgusting prices.
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The health plan's trying to get a hold of that. The last information we have
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on utilization. So if I'm a lawmaker, I might want to know, is this price going
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up because they're using too much health care?
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And the last data we have on that shows the opposite.
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Through the end of 2024, the usage went down.
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Don't have the most current up-to-date data on that. I understand we might be getting that soon.
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But what we do have data on is that we are wildly overpaying in some cases.
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Again, the state health plan under Treasurer Briner and Executive Administrator
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Thomas Friedman are working really hard to get that part under control and use
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market forces, capitalism,
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to make people have to stop overcharging the state.
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Well, I think that's pretty much the wrap up for the week. You got anything else to add, Arniss?
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No, you know, we're excited. Thank you again to Speaker Hall for having come on.
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I think that the one thing we all took away from that is that he seems very
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genuine and that he wants to help.
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And so I hope that he finds a way to do that.
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And thank you to our guest this week, Secretary of State Elaine Marshall.
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I think this is a great interview.
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All right. Well, enjoy the interview with Elaine Marshall.
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Our guest today is the Secretary of State, Elaine Marshall.
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She has been in her role for eight terms now, from what I could read. That's correct, yes.
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We welcome her to the podcast, and she is a longtime Scenic member,
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from what I understand. That is correct, too. On top of all of her duties. Yes, yes.
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Welcome to our podcast. Before we get into our grilling of topics,
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I wanted to run through some statistics that I looked up and found on you,
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because you've had a long and celebrated career.
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So you were the first woman ever elected to the executive branch of North Carolina in 1996.
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That's correct. That's just so astonishing to me.
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Before that, you were in the Senate, right? Yes. How long were you in the Senate? One term.
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Okay. And before that, you were a teacher, right? Yes. And attorney?
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Yes. So you've just done everything. I've worn a lot of hats in my time.
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And under your eight terms as Secretary of State,
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2.2 million businesses have been formed, and you pioneered e-commerce and government
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and investor and intellectual property rights. You've championed those as well.
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And an unusual one, I thought, did you know, Artis, that she has a gold record?
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A gold record? Yeah. It's not for singing.
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It's for protecting intellectual property oh how cool no I did not know that
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Recording Industry Association of America presented her with an honorary gold record,
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for combating music piracy. When was that? 2005 or 6, back when everything wasn't
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a podcast or a subscription, a Spotify, that kind of thing, when it was CDs and what have you.
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Oh, you deserve a gold record if you were fighting that fight. That was bad. Yeah.
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Songwriters and... Artis is an aspiring country music singer,
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so I thought she would like that.
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Not singer, a songwriter. Songwriter, I'm sorry. But they were getting...
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I just remember, especially out of Nashville.
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They were always so upset back in the day, particularly over, they just got robbed.
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So I bet they did give you a gold record. That's awesome. Well,
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I threw that fact out there for you, Artis.
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So, Secretary Marshall, you recently testified before the House Oversight Committee
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and talked a lot about the budgetary problems in your agency and all over state
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government. So we wanted to have you on to talk about some of that stuff.
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You've been vocal about your department's needs. And can you walk us through
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just kind of the resource gaps you see in your department?
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I'm delighted to. I'm delighted to. Thank you for having me for this.
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All along in my administration, pretty much, the numbers of businesses being
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created just went up kind of.
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There was a dip 2008, 2009, the recession and the real estate problems we had.
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And then it picked up 2011, 12 and kept on going. And then the pandemic came along.
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And I didn't know what to think, didn't know how to be prepared for it.
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And I thought, well, I wonder if it's going to plateau out, if it's going to
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decline. I was absolutely wrong.
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The number of businesses being created took off like a rocket and.
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Month over month, it would be 1,000 more over the past month or 1,300 more over
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the prior month. And it kept going up and up.
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And we just said, what in the world is going on? So we ultimately ended up surveying
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these people about why they started their business.
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Where did they get their information? What kind of obstacles?
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We're the only Secretary of State in the country who has conducted such a survey.
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But we like to stay in contact with our customers.
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Now, as this escalation has gone up, that means that North Carolina's more prosperous
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businesses coming in, people seeing opportunities.
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That means that there's more business economy going out there.
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But that also means that we have much more work to do because business creation
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is not like basketball. It's not one and done.
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Each new business, whether it's a corporation, an LLC, or some of these partnerships,
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they have a renewal obligation, a reporting obligation every year.
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So as the numbers go up for these new creations, and I'll give you numbers in
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a minute, the life cycle of the volume of work that we have to do is just, I call it an avalanche.
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The annual reports are due companion with tax day on April 15th.
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And beginning February, I see the snowball at the top of the hill and it gets
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larger and larger as it comes down.
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And I can't stop it. I've only got to get out of the way and manage it as best I can.
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And the same was true this year. Now, we work hard. We actually harass people to file early.
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I tell them, if you'll just go ahead and file, you'll stop getting notices and reminders.
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But we work hard. Every speech I talk about it, we send out email notices.
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We send out cards to just remind people because it's the kind of thing that
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they think their tax guy is doing it, the tax guy maybe not be doing it, you know, what have you.
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But in 2024, over 172,000 new businesses were formed.
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Our highest year of all was 178,000 in 2021.
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I'm giving you the rounded up numbers. But that was in the middle of the pandemic.
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And we have not had quite that high a number ever since
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so i i thought well maybe we're heading down but
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we're we're only last year we did 172.4 we're
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only about five to six thousand over a whole year short of what we were our
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highest year so there's nothing wrong i mean it's still growing and growing
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and and keeping up and folks are just starting seeing new ideas or getting a gig side gig because,
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inflation's taken a hold. Everybody sees that.
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They may need to do something to supplement their income.
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A lot of state employees have side gigs to secondary employment to supplement
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because their gas prices have gone up and they haven't gotten a pay raise.
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Their food costs have gone up and they still haven't gotten a pay raise.
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And so, you know, it's a problem for this state. It's a problem for the agency
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because of the workload that we have.
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Our mission is to support economic development. We've got a long mission,
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but you can say it in a couple of words. It's to support the economy.
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And people pay for services.
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Everything pretty much that we do except the educational component is they pay.
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It's a fee. It's a fee that goes in there.
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And they expect prompt turnaround.
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When I started practicing law, it took 60 days to get something back from the
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Secretary of State's office. Of course, it was only mail then.
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And you couldn't get any answers and what have you, you know,
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couldn't get anybody on the phone and so forth.
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But we've added a lot of technology. We've improved that situation greatly.
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Now, in the busy time of the year, we do have a telephone problem.
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I've asked the General Assembly for more help with customer service.
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We can handle about 900 telephone calls a day.
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And in busy time, we get 1,200, 1,500 calls.
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So the math is right there to show anybody at the General Assembly the need. We are excited.
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We thought 2025 last year was going to be the beginning of the down.
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First quarter was not very good. Second quarter wasn't very good.
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But low and hold, third quarter and fourth quarter shot up like a rocket again.
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And we finished out the year with just a few thousand under the best year ever.
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And 2026 is turning to look real good. The first couple of months that are in
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are looking real good. But people pay for these services.
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Now, they want it to be done timely.
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It's important for the whole business community all across the state.
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Transparency is important. Access to the public data we have and posting it,
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handling it quickly. What am I telling you?
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Banks will not open an account without doing due diligence to see that the entity is current and active.
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Insurance agents, real estate agents, every morning they tell me they open up,
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when they open up the office, they open up the website and go to the Secretary
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of State's office to see if somebody is current active.
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They are in the risk prevention business.
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They don't want their stuff to go sideways because they've gotten bad information.
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Accountants, lawyers, CPAs, all of those folks are in our database all the time,
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helping their clients make good business decisions.
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Every day, think about it. How many buy, sell, lend, borrow investment decisions
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get made all around this state?
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And a lot of them, they're coming to our office just to do their due diligence,
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make sure everything's right.
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I was talking with the labor commissioner the other day because they know the
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names of the people behind organizations.
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When somebody has not paid their employees and a company has folded and gone
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away, they're looking for the principles.
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And they're also, they're monitoring our website to make sure that these people
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didn't operate under some name and then come back two or three months later
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and open up another business, same people, different name, you know.
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So investigators, lots of folks are on.
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But we are having trouble keeping up and filing and putting things up on the
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database the way that people would like it.
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With this life cycle that they have of reporting every year,
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the paperwork volume has just gone up and up and up.
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And I have repeatedly, repeatedly asked the General Assembly for additional staff.
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We have 82 percent growth since 2017 and not a bit of help extra.
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So you're all... No, go ahead, John. I think we both jumped on that.
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So, yeah. So your office hasn't grown at all in that time or has it...
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Are you still understaffed?
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We're still understaffed. We're still understaffed. We have about 183 people.
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Last year, people are under the misimpression that we keep the fee money to
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run the office. That is wrong, wrong, wrong.
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The fee money all goes to the General Assembly. We keep a very teeny tiny of
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some like copy fees or, you know, obscure filing fees that don't amount to a whole lot.
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Because I jokingly say I'm the Secretary of Stuff.
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If the General Assembly wants to keep a record of something and it doesn't naturally
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fit in insurance, agriculture, or education, guess who gets it?
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The Secretary State gets it to keep up with it.
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So we've got this very valuable database, and we just don't have the ability to keep it current.
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And that's one of the things we wanted to talk to you about.
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You've been, well, first of all.
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Despite doing this for 30 years, watching these same problems play out for 30
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years, you haven't had your energy about it dimmed even a tiny bit.
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Because when you come to legislative committee, you not only come with the receipts,
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you come with the energy.
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And the whole room, I've noticed, stops whatever they're doing on their phone and starts listening.
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And we can't help but do that because it's a very compelling message.
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And I wanted to just ask you.
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It's a compelling message, but the people who need to hear it are not in those committee rooms.
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That's the point. Well, yeah. And that's one of the reasons to have you on here because.
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What do you think is the hardest part of making clear to the General Assembly
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that the lack of investment in state employees has real dollar effects on North
22:05
Carolinians and on North Carolina's economy.
22:08
You've mentioned all of that, but what's the hardest part of getting that message
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through, in your opinion?
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Because we've been trying to get the message through that since 2009,
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the number of state employees is the same.
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But there's 2 million more North Carolinians. That's right.
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So our hardest thing to make anybody understand is you can't serve those additional
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2 million with the same people.
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What's the hardest thing about y'all trying to get the message through about
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what you're trying to do for business so that people can be innovators?
22:38
I don't want to appear to be whining, and yet I know I a little bit am.
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I would think that a logical analysis of the amount of money we take in,
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how much the productivity of each person is, the importance of what it is,
22:51
and the fact that a long time ago,
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basically, we got back about 10% of the money in appropriation.
23:01
Now, we're under 9% of our volume.
23:04
Of the money you're bringing in. Of the money, yeah. We don't get back 10 cents
23:08
on a dollar. We get less than that, if you look at it that way.
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No other business doesn't reinvest in profitable lines.
23:14
Right. So the committee that we're on is not a business committee.
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That's a number one problem.
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The committee that we're on is the least financed, the least wealthiest committee
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of money to do anything with, because many of them are advocacy groups and services.
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Now, insurance is there, but they're different because they are receipts funded.
23:37
You know, so it's a real mixed bag. When we go to talk to legislators or the
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committee members individually, they praise what we do.
23:46
Yeah, we understand you need more staff. Yeah, you know, but nothing comes of it.
23:53
And, you know, I was just talking to a reporter the other day who was very surprised
23:57
when I said, look, we haven't known since the Purdue administration that.
24:03
What the cost of turnover in state government actually is in real dollars.
24:07
There was a vendor that was hired
24:10
to look into that during the Purdue administration. That's been forever.
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We don't know now, but it was over $400 million then.
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You know, those are the kinds, like you said, of real costs.
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Somebody needs to do these kind of evaluations. Not only do I need more employees,
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I need significant salary increases.
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I've got probably the lowest paid in all of state government,
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I've got 80% of my people that are below the midline and 60% are down in the first quartile.
24:40
You cannot have a family. You cannot buy a car. You cannot buy a house with
24:44
a $45,000 a year job around here.
24:48
But the popular line of thought is let's cut employees and then the ones that
24:53
are left, we can give more money to.
24:55
I'm already short the start. It's.
24:59
Yeah, we're hearing that a lot from a lawyer. And we've embraced technology.
25:02
You can't say that we have left everything manual.
25:06
No. During the pandemic, we worked hard on a software revision that has taken,
25:11
I would say, probably 80% of the choke points out of business filing.
25:16
People make the silliest mistakes.
25:19
They'll put that it was organized under the laws of Delaware.
25:23
You know, that was the last one they did at that law office.
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They didn't change the computer. or they will put in wrong addresses or they
25:30
will try to file something for a name that's not available.
25:34
So our system is kind of like a lot of your credit card experiences online.
25:38
If you don't put it in there exactly right, like your box number or your zip
25:42
code right or all that kind of stuff, it stops you dead.
25:46
If you put in a name that's not available, you don't even get off the first base. That makes sense.
25:50
So that has eliminated because that was terrible. We'd have to communicate back
25:55
with the filer. We'd have to, the money was already deposited.
25:58
Then we'd have to track, does the change come back and match it up with the money?
26:02
Oh, those are the kind of headaches. I've gotten rid of a lot of them.
26:06
So the technology has helped us a lot.
26:09
I imagine that those jobs aren't just, obviously, they're not just data entry.
26:13
You need to know how to do those things. So you need to build up,
26:16
you know, knowledge to do that. So you can't just replace those people with anything, right?
26:20
Yeah, you're right. You're right. We've got some what I call senior document
26:23
examiners that handle the most complex.
26:25
I mean, we've got some very large corporations in the state that do mergers, acquisitions.
26:30
We've got this great pharmaceutical life sciences, bio, agriculture,
26:34
that the big companies are watching everything that's going on here.
26:37
They are merging, they are investing in, and they need to know what's what.
26:43
So this is pretty sophisticated stuff. And our job is to make sure that there
26:48
are no glitches in the legal entity that is being created We're not going to
26:53
start out by letting something slide Even the simplest thing.
26:58
Pieces of information, if they're not all there, it will get rejected because
27:02
that is a weakness in the entity.
27:05
It could be something as simple as a bid disqualification in a dispute from
27:11
some other company, or it could be a problem in a major lawsuit if there's a
27:16
defect in the corporate entity.
27:18
Now, those are kind of the far ends of the... But there's a lot on the line.
27:22
There's a lot on the line.
27:23
Nobody wants to buy a lawsuit. So how do we get a meaningful.
27:29
Competitive pay structure put in place?
27:31
Like how, what's in our way of doing that in your mind?
27:35
What's in the way of doing that is the bill that was passed back.
27:40
Well, it was actually starting, I guess, about 2010, on these automatic triggers for tax revenues.
27:46
The income tax. Yeah. We are giving away corporate tax benefits to people that
27:51
don't live in North Carolina, their other corporations, whatever.
27:55
And then on the personal side, we have people that consume services that need
28:00
services, and yet they're not being funded.
28:03
And unfunded mandates from the legislature, they are not even consistent,
28:08
it's the word I'm going to use, enough to create a new program that's going
28:12
to take people to plan and execute and deliver and then fund.
28:17
They'll create positions, but not fund positions.
28:20
We've been working for close to four years on an unfunded mandate that my staff
28:26
has put over 20,000 hours, it's a complicated notary technology thing, in writing the rules,
28:32
modernizing the laws, homogenizing the old one and a new one.
28:36
And the hardest part was setting the technology standards for the vendors in this area.
28:41
Deed fraud and financial fraud is a thing.
28:45
Oh, yeah. And this, without the proper guidelines on it, the proper guardrails,
28:50
it could be the wild, wild west of all types of financial fraud.
28:55
And vendors that have looked at what we've done said, this is what we've been waiting for.
28:59
This is the gold standard. A lot of other states have done something that's pretty loosey-goosey.
29:03
And, you know, they want business, but they don't want to be a part of anything
29:07
that harms people. You know, they're not out there to support fraud.
29:12
But the General Assembly said, yeah, you need these four or five positions.
29:16
It was five, and we were content with four. And then the money appeared to be
29:20
there, and then it got gone.
29:22
This is so you. You're saying a lot. The budget is still out there being decided.
29:26
And you're saying a lot of stuff that's real talk.
29:29
It's real talk. I mean, are you not worried they're going to say,
29:33
oh, we're cutting the Secretary of State's office for all that real talk?
29:37
I can't worry and predict what I think they're going to do. I'm just going to
29:41
push forward. I'm trying to be very professional about it.
29:44
People have said, well, give us the number. We'll harangue them with a bunch
29:48
of calls. No, I'm not going to do that. That is not productive.
29:52
Not in this type of situation. It just makes them mad. I'm just hoping that
29:57
logic and business sense will prevail.
30:00
I was assuming that's probably what you thought. Because honestly,
30:04
our experience also is, I don't think anybody's seeking to do harm when they're
30:09
elected to public office.
30:10
Their priorities are different than some of the rest of us. It can get real
30:14
when you've got all those pulls on you and you've been in the Senate.
30:20
I've never been in public office. That would never happen.
30:23
The public would not allow that. I can only imagine what it's like to have all
30:28
those, everyone pulling on you saying, this is the most important thing,
30:31
and you have to prioritize some of them.
30:33
But what I'm noticing is that you are consistently making really compelling
30:37
arguments, not just about what's good for taxpayers, but what's good for business.
30:45
Right. And for right or wrong, my experience as a lobbyist has been,
30:49
if it's good for business, usually people embrace it. So I've been a little
30:52
confused why the Secretary of State's office hasn't had more money thrown at
30:57
it because you actually facilitate business.
31:00
I can only guess. I mean, they can't say they don't know because I talk about
31:05
it every month at the Council of State.
31:07
They can't say that they don't know because I've been in front of them in committee meetings.
31:11
I'm obviously not their fair hair child because I see other positions getting
31:16
additional staff, but it's not coming our way.
31:19
All right. Let's get some money for the Secretary of State. Well,
31:22
we know that you're a very busy person, but we do have a few more questions
31:27
and then we'll let you escape us.
31:30
So you've been a CNET member for a long time. You speak at our convention about every year.
31:34
I don't know if you came this year, but you've been pretty much every year I've been there.
31:39
Oh, this year I was on vacation. Oh, okay. Okay. First serious vacation I've
31:43
had in about four or five years.
31:44
So we'll probably see her this year. Yeah, we support that. Yeah.
31:48
District 22, I think you're from Harnett County, right?
31:51
Well, Cliff Brown signed me up, and I think I'm in District 40. Isn't that Cliff?
31:55
I think he's 20 now. I think we changed him. Yeah. So, yeah,
31:59
these things move around over time.
32:02
But we obviously the actual district number doesn't impact me very much.
32:07
But we do appreciate you being a member and speaking at our convention so much.
32:12
What do you wish more state employees understood about why membership matters
32:17
in something like Scenic?
32:19
Well, membership matters simply because of the kind of thing we've been talking
32:22
about. You all are competent advocates at the General Assembly.
32:27
And without that, I shudder to think what bad or excessive things might happen.
32:34
Or, you know, your collective voice is needed to push through either changes
32:40
or a financial situation.
32:42
So that's, you know, the benefit of the association.
32:46
Well, thank you. And do you have any other questions, Artis?
32:49
Just as someone who sits in both worlds, so you're an elected official and you're
32:54
a state employee at the same time,
32:55
what message do you want to send to the state workers who are really very downtrodden
33:01
and frustrated right now? They feel like nobody in power listens to them.
33:05
Do you have any message for them? I can just tell you how I deal with my employees.
33:10
Okay. My employees, when I first came in, did not know why they moved the paper
33:14
from the right side of the table to the left side of the table.
33:17
They now know what they do, the significance of it, who they do it for.
33:23
They're not doing it for me. They're doing it for the person who has an aspiration
33:28
to have a new business, a new life, something better for their family.
33:34
And they do like working for me, but they like the notion that they know that
33:38
they're working directly for the people and fulfilling their hopes and dreams.
33:43
And that builds families, that builds a better North Carolina,
33:47
that helps all of our counties, you know, when we've got stronger families and
33:51
more wherewithal and a diverse business economy.
33:54
So they know why they do what they do and who they're working for. Very well said.
34:00
So every week I ask an off-the-wall question. Oh, my word. So I have one for
34:05
you. Here we go. Do you want to play my theme song?
34:15
So, my question for you. So, you've had a long and meaningful career in public
34:20
service, but my question goes back to your first race for Secretary of State.
34:25
And I ask this because you'll forever be known to my dad and his generation
34:32
as the woman who beat Richard Petty.
34:34
That is who I am, the woman who beat Richard Petty. And I've heard you talk
34:36
about that at the convention once before.
34:38
What can you tell Tell us about that race and what are your memories of it?
34:42
Were you nervous when you saw that he was on the other side against you?
34:46
No, I knew that going in, even when I filed, because he had made rumblings about running for governor.
34:53
And the Republican Party kind of tamped him down and said, that shouldn't be
34:56
your first. You should do something else. So he picked Secretary of State.
35:00
And everybody at the General Assembly on the Democratic side was quite worried.
35:04
They thought he's a very good name recognition. And what about coattails?
35:08
So both Mark Bass Knight commissioned a survey and Rufus Edmiston,
35:15
who was then the incumbent secretary of state, had a survey done.
35:18
And those two surveys were about aligned when they were asked,
35:22
how many of you know Richard Petty?
35:24
It was like better than 90 percent. Dean Smith, Jim Hunt territory.
35:28
Yeah, they knew it. but would you see him as a statewide elected official?
35:34
That was only 30%. So I said, 30%, 90%. Where's that other 60%?
35:40
I got to find them. I can win an election with them.
35:43
And the support from women's organizations, because I did become the first woman
35:47
elected to executive branch, was very important.
35:51
And I had spent my career doing a lot of things for those kinds of groups,
35:55
not intentionally, but the women lawyers of the state.
35:59
I'm a woman. I'm a lawyer. I've been a schoolteacher.
36:02
Schoolteachers are predominantly female. They were enthused about it.
36:06
I've never been a social worker, but in my dealings as a lawyer and domestic
36:11
lawyer working with social services and being a guardian ad litem,
36:14
which was the system back then, I had knowledge of the kind of work that social workers have to do.
36:20
I've worked with a bunch of them, and they embraced me wholeheartedly. I've never been a nurse.
36:26
Most of them are female. They embrace me wholeheartedly.
36:29
And, you know, I, I.
36:32
I knew some of the leaders in some of these, but there were people out there
36:35
who had never met me that jumped in both feet up to their shoulders to support
36:40
what they considered a qualified woman to run for office.
36:43
And the fact that it was Richard Petty gave them the extra oomph.
36:48
Don't mess with women. I remember that race, and I remember a slogan,
36:55
a serious candidate for a serious job. That is absolutely right. I do.
37:00
There's pieces of North Carolina politics I'll just never forget.
37:04
And that is one of those pieces.
37:05
And I think, you know, I was starting out in state government when you won that race.
37:10
And it really, the import of you being the first female council estate member
37:16
was kind of lost on me at that time. now it's so meaningful.
37:20
But as a female who was a state employee during that time, I want to tell you,
37:24
I think the coolest thing about that is the candidate we got in office as the
37:29
first female happens to be 30 years later, somebody who, like I said,
37:34
brings the receipts and brings the energy every time, but also who I have watched
37:39
over the years bring the respect from both sides of the aisle in the job because it was a serious job.
37:45
And you have been a really serious public servant. I just respect you so much.
37:51
You've just been amazing to watch.
37:53
I'm the one that put that phrase together. I was so frustrated.
37:57
This office does so many diverse things that don't necessarily hang together,
38:02
and they're kind of ho-hum bland to talk about, you know.
38:05
And I was talking to somebody who had been in a Senate office.
38:09
I doodle and make notes when I'm talking and I was just expressing my frustration
38:15
this is way back early and I wrote down serious candidate and.
38:20
I, we were talking comparison to Richard Petty. That's how that came about.
38:24
And I was just frustrated about, this is a serious job.
38:28
How do I tell everybody that I wrote down serious job? Well.
38:31
If you say that, you don't have to say more.
38:33
Exactly. Because of the attention span and a few words is what sticks with people.
38:38
And so serious candidate for a serious job was correct.
38:42
It was accurate. It was me. And it worked.
38:46
I think it would be a good documentary or a film to look back on that. race.
38:51
And thank you so much for coming in and giving us some time.
38:54
It's awesome to hear your stories and we really appreciate it.
38:58
Thank you very much. Thanks.