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Jeff Hittner - How Do Good and Great Dads Show Up? · Quarterback DadCast | Intentional Fatherhood & Leadership at Home

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Riley.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm Reiner.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: And this is my dad's show.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: Hey everybody, it's Casey Jacobs with the Quarterback Dadcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to season seven.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: Can't wait for this season as there's a lot of great guests ahead.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: If you're new to this podcast, really it's simple.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's a podcast where we interview dads, we learn about how they were raised, we learn about the life lessons that were important to them, we learn about the values that are important to them, and really we learn about how we can work hard to become a better quarterback or leader of our home.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: So let's sit back, relax, and listen to today's episode of the Quarterback Jackcast.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: Hey everybody, it's KCJ Cox with the Quarterback Dadcast.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: We are in season seven, and I'm excited to uh talk to our next guest.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: His name is Jeff Kittner.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: He is the founder of we did a lot of work, but one of the things he's doing is called the founder of ambitiousdabs.com.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna learn all about that.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: He's a William and Mary, I believe they're an Eagle.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: If I've done my research, right?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: This guy was a D1 gymnast, but I don't know if he was rocking the pommel horse or not sure what he was doing, but we're gonna learn about that.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: He also uh is involved with learning and development of JA Worldwide, which does some really, really cool uh work for um preparing our youth to become ready for employment and entrepreneurship.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: He's currently residing in Spain, uh which is crazy.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm here in Maple Valley, Washington.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: But with all that said, that's not why we're having Jeff on.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna learn about Jeff the Dad, how he's working hard to become an ultimate quarterback or leader of his household.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: So without further ado, Mr.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Hitner, welcome to the quarterback deadcast.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: I'm excited to be here.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I and everybody, before we start, I literally thought Jeff was gonna be on the East Coast and then he drops a Spain bomb on me.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm in Spain.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, what the hell?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna we're gonna learn about that in a second.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: But before we start, we always ask dads what are they most grateful for as a dad today?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um honestly, I'm so grateful for the hugs that I get from my boys.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_04: We have made that such an ingrained part of our family.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_04: And like our kids are just equally touchy-feely with us.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: It's awesome.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we don't, we don't have to add my kids still are of the age, they're five and eight, and they're still of the age where they'll come into our bed, you know, in the middle of the night.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I'll be like, you know, I think you guys come into the bed because your feet get cold.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_04: Because, you know, when your kids are young, they don't know how to sleep under their blanket, they're just like all over the place.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_04: And my five-year-old the other day literally, I said that to him, and he literally replied, No, I go into the bed because I just need a cuddle.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, that is so fucking cool.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_04: And yes, yeah.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_04: Strategic too.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I am so grateful for that.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's the best, man.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm grateful.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yesterday I spent time, uh, we were out of town this weekend, and I got home and I was uh my son plays, he's a sophomore in college.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: He's he plays golf in school in college right now.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so even though I wasn't with him, we were like watching the PGA tour final round of the event and texting back and forth, and like, oh my god, oh this.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: And then we end up FaceTiming afterwards.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm just like, I'm grateful for my he actually thinks dad's not a complete douche and doesn't like not like he still wants to talk to me and hang out.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's I'm grateful for that.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: Just you know, quiet moment of time and being present with him yesterday was it was fun.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: So all right, so we got a five and an eight-year-old.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, bring me inside the Hitner Huddle as the quarterback.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me a little bit about um yeah, the the both boys and also how you and your wife met.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, well, um, both boys.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they have quite different personalities.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, I'll I'll tell you um well, there's so many directions I could go with this.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: But, you know, I'm I have a younger sister, right?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_04: She's four years younger.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_04: And so I didn't really know what it was like to have two boys.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember this is at least three or four years ago now.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, what am I doing wrong?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_04: These kids just won't stop fighting with each other.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: And it was really kind of one of the many things that launched all my work around ambitious dads, which we'll talk about.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_04: But I was like, this is like, I can't stop this biting.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_04: I can't, and finally I started talking to other dads and was like, hey, I remember like you have two other brothers, right?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_04: Did you did you guys fight all the time when you were kids?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_04: And they were like, hell yeah, all the time.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, do you guys love each other?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like tons.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, oh, okay.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_04: And and so that this was part of this journey I have.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_04: So um, Ambitious Dads, I've I've now interviewed over 200 dads to try to understand the differences in in modern fatherhood from like when you know we had our dads and what that sort of parenting was like.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_04: And it that's just another example of the things that didn't naturally come up in conversation that I needed to ask.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: And when I finally did, I discovered, oh yeah.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_04: So um they don't fight quite as much now.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_04: Instead, we spend a lot of time wrestling on the bed.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I joke that I don't go to the gym to be in shape or to do whatever exercise goal other people set.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_04: I go to the gym so I don't pull a muscle and can wrestle with them on the bed just about every night, which is a requirement before bedtime with them.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, and my wife and I actually met at a bar in New York City uh on Rivington Street, and that's why my son's name is Rivington, my oldest.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: Very cool.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: All right, so we got WWF uh cage matches going on.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um talk about this move to Spain.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was assuming at East Coast, I say William and Mary, and then you dropped the Valencia bomb on me.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I've been living for 20 years and almost 20 years in New York, and my wife was born and raised there.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_04: And um, our son was born during the worst of the pandemic pandemic in early 2020 during the lockdown.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it was hard.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_04: New York City was really, really scary and stressful.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_04: If you imagine also like we had a three-year-old, and then we had a brand new baby, and no one was allowed to come over and help, and no one was allowed to like really support us.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_04: And um, it was not easy.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_04: And by pure chance, our next door neighbors, who we were very good friends with, um, they were from Valencia, Spain.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_04: And they were, they had met in the US, they had become US citizens.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and the wife was actually uh in charge of infectious diseases at Columbia University in terms of research.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_04: And she was like, guys, uh, your country, we're gonna move back to Spain.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_04: You guys should come.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_04: And it was like a joke.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_04: And we were like, huh.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_04: Hmm.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_04: And it just sort of sat in our heads.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_04: And as 2020 continued to move on, we were like, this is not a bad idea.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_04: And it was supposed to be for one year, and five years later, we are still here, and we are still here because our kids are thriving here.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um life is really great with them, for them, for us.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, that's why.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_04: What was the scariest part about like, are we really doing this?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_04: In 2020, the scariest part would have been not to do this, to be perfectly honest.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_04: Everything kind of worked in its favor, right?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like the babysitters we had all moved to other parts of the country because it was COVID.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, you you we're trying to work from home with a toddler and a newborn and no one to really support us.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it it didn't like you didn't see friends that much.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_04: It didn't feel like a difficult task in 20.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: Well, the the difficulty was the bureaucracy.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_04: The difficulty was, you know, you couldn't go to Europe without a visa at that time.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: And by the way, to get a visa at that time required all this bureaucratic work that became like there was no expedited anything in 2020.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_04: It was all snail mail, it was all slow speed.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: So it took maybe five months to get everything we needed taken care of.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so um honestly, it felt it didn't feel scary at that time.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_04: I think I think that's what made it possible.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_04: I think if we were living in in like 2026 New York, moving and like there was no goodbye parties to have with people.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_04: Literally, you didn't get together, right?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_04: So there it it was it we took advantage of that.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_04: That's what made it possible.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: Love it, man.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's so cool.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me about um your boys' interest over there.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_04: Has things changed for being from states to Yeah, I mean, they were three and uh the other one was eight months old when we arrived.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: So I don't know if they've changed so much as just developed in general, but um uh I mean, what are there?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's very interesting.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: So I I don't really have a point of comparison.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_04: Uh they weren't in school, to be honest, in the US, but um, we explore all sorts of new stuff.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, Valencia is on the water, so um, they go to surf class, they go to sailing class.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_04: These things cost one-20th what they cost in New York.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_04: Well, there's no there's no surfing in New York, but in New York City at least.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um they the Hudson doesn't surf.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and and um they take judo, uh, which they like, and they call it judo because they don't know how to say it in English anymore.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um and um uh what are they?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_04: They love to cook because that's one of the things that I'm super passionate about here.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um we live very close to the world's uh the the Western Europe's largest fresh food market, and I take them every weekend.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_04: And we buy all sorts of funky stuff and try new recipes and um and they cook with me and it's a blast.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: And so they're really into food, which has been really cool.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I know that every family has different challenges, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think I think it I don't think it's because we moved to Spain.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_04: I think we were lucky.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um I I, you know, I definitely have done certain things that I that I think have supported their curiosity around food, which is definitely going to the market.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_04: And also in Spanish school, you have an amazing multi-course lunch.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_04: You are not allowed to leave the table um and go play until you finish your meal.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and these are like sophisticated Spanish meals, you know, like there'll be fish two or three days a week, there'll be lentils, there'll be paella, there'll be all sorts of stuff.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so you know they're getting like really good exposure to quality food.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_04: And then the irony is they'll still not necessarily accept what you serve them at at home for dinner, but you'll know they ate a great lunch because you see what the menu is and you know they were forced to eat it.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_04: So um it's interesting.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: That is um that just sounds like uh, awesome, but B, as I think about what ambitious dads mean, like you're living an ambitious life right now.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, yeah, this is this is for them uh in so many respects.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_04: I um I really want them to live a life without a lot of fear and um and in a place that ha shares the same values that we have and in a place where they can get exposure to a lot of amazing things without all of us going bankrupt in the process of exposing them to it.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, um I will say, like, for instance, my oldest was studying, uh they study art history from the earliest age.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like he started in preschool, no joke.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_04: And last year he learned about the Mona Lisa.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, you want to go to Paris?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and we went to Paris and we just did like a daddy son trip two days in Paris, which was not expensive.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and we had an amazing time.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: And he's learning about ancient Egypt now, and he's begging me to go to Egypt.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, you know what?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna wait till your brother also learns about it, and then we'll go as a group.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: That'd be cool to see the pyramids.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think it would be very cool.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I always like uh transition now, Jeff, to learn about our the dads we get to talk to about what was life like growing up for you, and uh talk about the impact mom and dad had on you from a values perspective.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: So um life growing up for me was a little different.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I was an elite gymnast.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, as you mentioned, I was a gymnast all the way through college where I went to William and Mary.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I kind of had a full-time job all the way until um the end of college.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_04: It was four hours a day, six days a week.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: It was, I was pretty goal-oriented and pretty focused.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it was definitely self-imposed, but um, a lot of structure.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so that is really how the lens by which my life, my childhood evolved.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: And very intentionally, my child, my children's childhood will not be um designed in that way.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and probably the other reason why like we live here too is like I feel like I missed out on a lot in my childhood.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I became super curious about the world, you know, as a young adult and started traveling and got obsessed with um visiting other places, and and you know, again, one of the motivators for being here.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um values-wise, um, it was it was definitely um around like working hard.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it was definitely around um honesty, it was definitely around um like I'm not sure if it was explicit or not, but I always had the sense that um the idea was when there was uh something that came up that was you know an ethical, difficult issue, usually the hardest uh solution was the right solution, like the hardest emotional solution was the right solution.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_04: And somehow that got built into me.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um and and when I say that, what I'm what I'm trying to say is like um you know, the right thing to do often was the thing that I felt like, oh, that's the thing that's gonna take the most emotional courage or energy to do.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I really I don't remember a moment where my parents expressed it in any particular way, but um I definitely somehow in internalized that growing up.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Can you think of a story that you might share that might kind of yeah, I think about playing baseball.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, playing baseball and like um, you know, like having the umpire do a bad call or or striking out and like wanting to throw a tantrum and and recognizing that like especially like when it was when quote unquote it was the umpire's fault.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like I remember um uh I hit a ball that didn't that went outside the infield, but they called the infield fly rule.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was out, but it actually landed safely, like literally 20 feet into the outfield, and I was so upset.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_04: And it was my my first hit of the year, and I remember thinking, like, I I have the right to be upset, but what's the what's the harder thing to do?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: So it for some reason that sticks in my head.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you when you say uh baseball, you I mean, I I've shared the story before where I had uh one of the stories of like just being honest.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: You rock talked about honesty, one of the values your parents taught you, is I remember when I was 11.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean I'm almost 50 and I still remember the story like it was yesterday.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: So shout out to my mom if you're listening.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like she, I remember the very first time like playing like hard, like fast pitch, and this the dude I was going to get up against looked like he was like eight feet tall and threw like a million miles an hour and didn't know where the frickin' thing was going.
• 16:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: And all I I remember the first about I went up there, I'm like, okay, sweet, I didn't die.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: I took a walk, but I almost got hit like nine times.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, um, yeah, I'm not I'm not gonna face this guy again.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I said, well, the only quickest way out of is let's fake a stomachache.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: And uh so in mind, I go, yeah, coach, I'm not feeling too good.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, I'm safe.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: I got out of it.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: Well I in the car, my mom's like, Oh, are you feeling better?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, Well, yeah, I feel great.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, Well, you had a stomachache a second ago, and I was like, uh oh.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: I got you know, I just got caught in that lie, and I remember just kind of like it was like silence in the car at home, and then we got home and my parents call me in, like, hey, here, so you're gonna call your coach and you're gonna tell him the truth.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, What do you mean?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you're you're gonna call the coach and tell him what you just told us because that's not who we raised.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so I had to freaking face the music, call the coach, told him I was sorry, apologized.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: He goes, Hey, Casey, man, that took a lot of courage to call you.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and you're gonna also tell the team on Tuesday at practice.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: Got harder.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, What?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: But like, I didn't do that again.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I'm glad they did it.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: That was some freaking tough love, but um, I learned the power of like saying you're sorry and owning your owning your mistakes and realizing that we all we're all flawed, um, but you can do something about it.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, those are the sometimes the hard moments of being a dad where like you we have to we have to go we have to go through these type things, and then also when our we have the opportunity to teach our kids, don't steal their independence from them.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: Don't teach, don't, don't steal that moment of growth because we don't want to do the hard things like you learn to do the hard things sometimes.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's a great story.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and the hard one.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um probably gonna have nightmares later of getting beaten by like Roger Clemens, but um what did mom and dad do for their job?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_04: Uh my dad was uh he had one job his whole life.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the same he was a lawyer.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um and my mom was uh um an advertising and marketing executive.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I will tell you that the only thing my dad discouraged me from being in my entire life was a lawyer.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: Where did the love of um being a gymnast start?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know, my mom was a little bit of a diver when she was uh in high school.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: And when I was seven or eight, uh the the Olympics were in Los Angeles.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_04: So uh what are we?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_04: I don't want to say how many, what are we, 40 years later now?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh more than that.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um and uh I started like tearing apart like the couches and doing flips in uh uh in the in the house, and they were like, maybe we should sign him up for gymnastics.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I I know I went to a gymnastics class, and after two classes, they asked me to be on the team.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I was eight, and um, yeah, that was it.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_04: And then afterwards it was it was just a really easy place to focus all my energy and such a great uh place to um kind of learn about my own limits and boundaries and push them and like and there's so much that I didn't like about it uh as an adult, like how much I missed out, but there's so much about who I am that I got from being a gymnast, so it's an interesting paradox.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: What events did you do?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: I did all around, but my best event was rings, actually.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Is there is the Iron Cross a real thing?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think you remember the movie Old School with Will Farrell.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: When Vince Mond does theone's he's got the smoke in there, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: Now if you could pull that move off, that would be elite.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_04: I can do I could do it without smoking.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if I could do it with smoking, that would be harder.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: How long do you now I'm like being just curious and dorky, but how long do you have to actually hold it so it's a legit iron cross?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_04: Two or three seconds is is generally what you how long you need to hold each strength move.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: So um tell me what what did that journey of a gymnast teach you about like the dad you want to be?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then also you said you also missed out on some things.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe also tell me what that taught you too.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I missed out on everything.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_04: I missed out on my childhood.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh it was an easy place to hide.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_04: So um, you know, all the tough things about asking out girls or going to parties, I I was I avoided them because I could.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: I had an excuse and I would train.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um what did it teach me about fatherhood?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um I don't uh I mean I'd have to extrapolate, but um, but I it's it's more about what it taught me about the person that I am, which is again like um we talk about uh uh self-efficacy a lot in the leadership work I do and also with youth.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um self efficacy is this idea that um you can become whatever you set your mind to, right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um and uh that is what gymnastics gave me, right?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like if I wanted to be an entrepreneur, which I am, I could be that.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_04: If I wanted to design My day and my career, I could do that.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, if I wanted to move to Spain, I could do that.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: If I wanted to build a different type of family, which we have, I could do that.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, that's what it taught me.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's powerful.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: So there's people that can't see me, see this because we're it's an audio-only podcast, but there's a belief sign behind me.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: There is.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: And at age 41, man, I learned the power of that word uh in my corporate career before I went off and did my own thing.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: And what I'm doing now, I kind of fell into it, didn't really mean to do it.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: But I think when when we as dads can teach belief into our kids and to do exactly what you just said, like, why not you?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: Why not move to Spain?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Why not go, you know, freaking get a full ride that William and Mary, why not eventually try to be in the Olympics?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Why not go be a cook?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, all these things, like why not you?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so often we as humans, we like to listen to that voice in our head, or the story that we tell ourselves, which usually is victim mindset versus you know hero or fixed mindset versus growth mindset.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: And and uh there's uh uh when I I worked for a small um well company called Limitless Minds, I was doing some consulting work.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: There's gonna small little quarterback at the NFL guy named Russell Wilson used to play.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: And uh his brother I met, I met some other some neuroscience guys and like people that have been part of like IMG Sports Academy, and just it was really, really cool stuff.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things I I took away the most that really impacted me that I've shared with my kids and I shared now with many companies I consult with is you know, as humans, there are a lot of science, there's different stats on this, but one that stuck with me that I believe it says there's we have around 80 to 90,000 thoughts a day.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: And of those thoughts, we have they're usually 75 to 85 percent of those thoughts are negative.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: So, like getting the word belief into kids early, and um, I think it's just such an underrated valuable skill that you can teach and be help build that confidence early because the world will kick your ass when you're not ready for it.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_04: We call it self-talk in in our family and also in the work that I do.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: And there's negative self-talk and and non-negative self-talk.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and like in our house, no one's allowed to say I can't.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_04: And and my boys have gotten so good they call each other out, they call me out on it too.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: And then they also will always try to be like, well, like it's impossible or I can't fly.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, well, then you're just not thinking about it in enough diverse ways.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_04: So, and so yeah, like the in these things, as you know, sometimes I remember my wife kind of laughing at them, but I'm like, no, this is important.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like, um, this is going to shape how they think about stuff.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and growth mindset and and self-talk and all and belief, it's it's critical, like, especially in a world that it's like, I mean, we don't even know what jobs, what careers, what world we're gonna live in in five years.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_04: So we need to have the self-talk that's gonna enable us to be adaptable.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you you I love that the power of I can't is not allowed your family.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's not allowed my family too.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: I actually I created four other words that are no-nos.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: I call these my swear words, which are need to, should do, want to, and have to.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, those are I I call that anxiety-based language.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then the story I'll tell, and sometimes, you know, me being a smart ass, I'll I but I this one's kind of stuck that I do in like some of the sales and leadership work I do, but I also use it on my kids.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: I said, imagine if you're in an airplane and you think you're flying from Seattle to Valencia.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think, and the pilot, he or she gets on after we take off, and there's like, and they and they go, Hey, welcome to flight.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, shoot, I forgot to file a flight plan.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: I need to do that.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: I should do that.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: I go, kids, where would your anxiety be?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like, frickin' hi, Dad.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, Yeah, so why are we living our lives that way?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like we just you're winging it.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: And versus if you have either the power to then instead of those words, get rid of them and just say either I will or I won't.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: And um, there's been like I got stories for days on the power of that, and uh I don't know, like getting off getting off topic, but you you triggered a memory.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, I love that.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_04: That's true.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we also there's only one I have to, and that unfortunately is that we all have to die.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_04: But other than that, like it's all I will, I want, I am.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_04: You did you ever think you want to be in the Olympics?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I um I made it to um as high as I could, which was I made it to the elite level.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I I dreamed of of making it there, but um injury and kind of finally like this sort of self-discovery of everything I had been missing convinced me that it was time to not do that anymore.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's um I watched so I played football in college up until and I got teased in the arena league, and then I chance to play overseas, and that when you get done, uh, I don't know if it was like this in gymnastics, but football, it's like cold turkey, that it is ripped away, and you don't, there's no you're done.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like emotionally really, really hard for me, but I uh but I learned that like so much of what I did to build the life of being successful as a quarterback, it helped me in business, it helped me in goal setting, helped me in visualization, helped me in self-talk.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm curious, even though that you're good, you're going a different path.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how much of those self you know development skills that you built through that journey of gymnastics do you still value that you'll want to like teach your teacher boys?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_04: All of them.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, visualization was something that we were using back then, like way before it was out of elite sports and into the mainstream.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, just by by focusing on visualization and and realizing the power of the mind, like I think that played a very early benefit for you know my ability to accomplish the things I wanted to accomplish in my life.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it um plays a huge role in that and and goal setting in general and um and just knowing what it what it means to commit to something, right?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um so all of those things came from from gymnastics, but also most important in my mind, um I learned that I was never going to like overcommit to anything again that didn't deserve uh the deepest, most profound level of my attention.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_04: And so for me, that meant I always was going to keep an eye out as to what was most important in my life and not get lost um in the forest through the trees.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_04: Is that how you say it?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, something like that.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um and um so it ironically gave me that too, which was you know, I I was obsessed with my sport and when I left it, I realized that there was a lot of other things that I wanted to be centered around, and I wasn't gonna let myself uh be um overly focused on anything that that didn't uh seem uh like uh as values-based, as uh human-based, as life-based as as all the other things that I was exploring.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think that helped as you you mentioned of being an entrepreneur that like um did that help without having an identity?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like you are your identity was not the thing, but it's you as you are the identity, like you're you deep inside you is your identity.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: Did that did that journey of the gymnastics help you with that, you think?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_04: No, I think I think my identity was gymnastics, and so I was lost afterwards for for a for a while.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I think I had to find my identity, which at 22 was is a great place to be, to be honest, to be lost.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_04: I think you know, if if that happened when I was 30, it would have been a lot more unsettling as a 22-year-old join the club, right?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: I think so.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um for me it was it was useful from that perspective.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't think I don't think I my pal, my apologies.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I asked the question the right way.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was, I guess I was you and you answered it the right right way.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: I was thinking that it's like going through that, you you it was your identity, but then now that you're later in life, you've had that life experience, like, okay, wait a minute, but that's because like you your journey is reminding me of like my own.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm relating to you, because like I left when I left corporate, like I was like, I had all these awards and accolades, and then when I left, I was like, okay, now what?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I almost had to redefine myself.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, but um I think I think um what's so interesting about identity, right?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_04: Because I and I've done a lot of work with this with ambitious dads, is you know, where men put their identities.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_04: And and um, you know, at this point, 91, 92 percent of of dads say their primary identity is as a father.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but yet only a third of us think we're actually doing a good job, which means we have this huge confidence gap.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um and for sure I felt that gap early on as well.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I also um going back to your comment about quarterback and and gymnastics, I um I never wanted my identity tied to any one thing again.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted it tied to the person I was.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't want it be Jeff the gymnast or Jeff the Entrepreneur or Jeff the business person.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like I wanted it to be like Jeff.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like now I'm happy for it to be Jeff the dad, but like Jeff the father, the person who like you know, prioritized his family and moved them to Spain, like whatever.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_04: But I want it based on I want it anchored in the right things.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and gymnastics ironically helped me do that by um being too far in the other direction for a long time.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I um I I'd say, man, in in this journey, I have a question you about um you comment you said about your the dads and how they're not feeling like they're doing a good job.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: I want to get that to in a second, but I think, man, when you when you can find the values that drive you as a person and not identity, and for me, like it is at the rifle age of almost 50, Jeff, the the what's so clear to me is if I can be the most humble version of myself, the most vulnerable version of myself, and the most curious version of myself, life's gonna be pretty freaking good because I'm not afraid to ask for questions, I'm not afraid to ask for help.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm realizing that yeah, we had a successful day, but who helped me have a successful day?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: Was my wife?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: Did she help me do something?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: Did my kids have a great client?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: And if I'm asking really good questions, well, how do you know?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, are you hearing people say, Oh, great question, Casey?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: Are you am I learning more about others?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: Or am I more just wanting to let me talk about myself again?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: How you know it's like, and I think when you can do those, like for me, it helps me not have an identity like tied one thing to who I'm doing.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just like, it helps me help, I feel like it helps me as a dad be is really, really, really, really present.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um I couldn't agree more.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_04: I would add one more thing, which might be a little bit of a detour, but um also knowing our triggers, knowing our values and knowing our triggers.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_04: Because in a family, especially when you know you have one child out of out of home at this point, but you know, when you have uh a you know a crowded, busy family of four or even three or five or what have you, your day is full of triggers.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_04: So knowing what they are, knowing when your overreactions tend to happen, knowing what the root causes of those are, knowing your spouse's triggers.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like all of these things are so that I and I haven't learned it.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't learn it until I was in my 40s, right?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_04: And they're so valuable and they are so meaningful to being a better parent, to being a better partner, uh, to being a better person.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, there's something that I'm really happy to have dove into in over the last, you know, two, three, four years.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_04: How did you learn your triggers?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_04: By having a lot of issues with my partner.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's probably how most people do it.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_04: With my partner and with my kids, I I think um I saw a lot of um mirroring of some of my bad behavior in my kids as toddlers, and it really, really uh hurt me.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_04: And like it made me filled to it, it I felt a lot of shame.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, I need to fig fix this, I need to figure this out, I need to fix this.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and the biggest one was like my youngest, not my oldest, but my youngest would have the worst temper tantrums, and they could go on for 20 or 30 minutes.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I was right there with them having one.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I could not handle more than 30 seconds, and um, I needed to get to the bottom of it, and I needed to like um, you know, healing from from your own like root causes of triggers isn't necessarily possible on on everyone, but self-awareness and like having some grace for yourself and having your partner know what it is as well.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like, so I remember as I was trying to get better, um, I would be like, all right, I made it to two minutes, I I need to tag out now.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_04: And my partner was like, Yeah, totally.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, two minutes became five minutes, became 10 minutes, became, yeah, now I can handle the whole thing.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and like, yeah, so it originates because we see it, we see the effect it has.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_04: And um, if we can get through that shame and really get curious and try to change it, we can.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, my name is Blaise Basel, and I hope you're enjoying today's episode of the Quarterback Dadcast.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: In case you're wondering, I'm a fellow dad and also the president of Kelly Mitchell.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Kelly Mitchell's an employee-owned technology solutions firm, and we help organizations solve complex business challenges.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think at the end of the day, we're we're focused on our team doing work that matters for our clients.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's because the way you show up matters, the way you treat people, clients, teammates, really everyone.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: That shapes the experience and the results that follow.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think similarly, Casey has had a real impact on our team internally at Kelly Mitchell.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: He spent time with us most recently in St.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Louis with our sales team.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: And while he was there, he asked a question that really stuck with me.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that was do you believe that what you do matters?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: That question stayed with us.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's changed how we approach our day-to-day, how we prepare, how we communicate, and ultimately how we follow through.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's why the experience Casey brings to his customers has made such an impact.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because whether when people believe their work matters, everything works better across the team with our clients and definitely in results.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we appreciate you, Casey.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: And now back to the podcast.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned that some of the dads that you have spoken to are questioning, you know, I'm not doing a good job.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: How do you how do you think dads sh are or should measure success as a dad?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm not gonna say how they should, but based on my 200 interviews with dads, I think there's kind of two stakes in the ground, like being a good dad and being a great dad.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_04: Being a good dad is just about being present, right?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_04: It's like it, you can be present, you can um really engage with your child uh at their level and um have your phone down.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_04: And even if it's 10 minutes a day, like presence is the like the number one definition of a good dad.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_04: Now, being a great dad, that's different.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_04: Now, in my work and also in the programs I run for uh dads, um, what makes a great dad is intention.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_04: And what I mean by that is so much of our work or time as fathers is spent being reactive.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and when we think about going to work, whether it's in an office or as an entrepreneur, we're really intentional.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like we we have a vision, we have a strategy for our team, for our division, for our company, we have values.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: But how many of us have that for our family, right?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what intent, what is our intentional fatherhood philosophy?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how do we want to show up for our kids in all of the moments as kind of the overriding?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, oh yeah, like I can handle this because like these are our values, or this is what I stand for, or this is what I'm trying to teach.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_04: So um, the difference between great and good is the difference between presence and intention.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's simple but powerful, uh, everybody.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope everybody's taking notes like I am during these conversations, because I think just like a good book, it becomes a becomes wisdom when you apply it and reread it and practice it.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I think Jeff shared some really good knowledge there.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um what was tell me, what was the uh the driver of like, you know what, I'm gonna start this ambitious dads?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what was the tipping point?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_04: There's a um, there's a couple.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_04: So um kind of buried the lead with this story.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_04: So um about 11 years ago, I found out I couldn't be a biological dad.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_04: So I had wanted to be a dad my whole life.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I remember since I was in high school, every time I had a crush on a girl thinking, like, oh, would she be like a good mom?
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um and um, you know, my wife and I went through a long, um, painful emotionally and physically uh infertility process for me.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I found out I couldn't be a biological dad.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so I had to change the definition of what fatherhood meant for me if I wanted to have a family.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_04: And so I did.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that's exactly why, by the way, that I do the work that I do as an executive coach and a leadership expert, because if I can change my mindset about something as fundamental as what it means to be a dad, then we can change our mindset about anything.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so, you know, fast forward um to now, I've got an eight-year-old and a five-year-old.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so as you can imagine, if my whole fatherhood is about um nurture and not nature, um, it's a pretty like hefty weight that I feel.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like I want to do the best that I can to like leave my imprint.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_04: And at the same time, about three or four years ago, my biggest client, um, like he, you know, I had been working with him for almost three years.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so he was sort of wrapping up our time together.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_04: And so I had some space, and I was literally going for a walk on the beach, and I was like, what do I want to focus on?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I thought to myself, you know, I'm really curious about how whenever I coach these CEOs, um, and I coach men and women, but when I coach the men in particular and I asked them, what is their vision for their business, for their career, they have an answer ready to go.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_04: And then when I asked them, what's what's your vision for like fatherhood and your family, they didn't have an answer.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I got really curious about that.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so those two things together, I was like, you know what?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, in my dorkiness, I'm going to like, I decided I'm gonna just interview 50 dads and see what's going on.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I got to maybe interview number four.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, holy shit, I am learning so much.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_04: This is so helpful.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_04: I need to start writing about this.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_04: So um I, you know, I've got a website, Ambitious Dads.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: I have a Substack um called Ambitious Dads, and and I write basically every week a new article based on all the interviews I do.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I have a podcast um where I interview dads uh all about this work as well.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_04: And um, it's really become, you know, something that I'm absolutely, I mean, it's in my mind, it's totally selfish because every conversation, I'm sure, like with you, every conversation, I'm learning new things, like learning new ways, um, new ideas, new things to worry about, new things to overcome.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's awesome.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that's really been the journey.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: We got a lot in common, brother.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: I um I didn't even it's that's what's funny about this is like you show up curious.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like I didn't send you a script.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I didn't have a script and I started, I just showed up curious and ready to listen.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: And but like I I joke kind of tongue in cheek with people, but I I've interviewed 300 and almost 50 dads, and it's free therapy every time.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: I like I'm like I can't wait to learn it because I what one thing I realized is we have we have more in common than we think in life, if you're just really curious.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: And um, but I think it's I think it's so cool that you're you're doing this too.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: And um I don't know about I I I kind of also joke that there was a lot of Me Too stuff back in, you know, but not a lot of he too.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was like, we gotta we gotta dads, we gotta get some love here.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just started doing for fun.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then this little pet project turned into something.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't know.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: I I love it.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's kudos for you for doing what you're doing, and um, it's fun to support one another.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um there's a gentleman I'm gonna introduce you to if you want to, his name's John Rafini, former podcast guest.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: He wrote, he has three adopted kids, but they were all from the same family.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_03: And he wrote.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Wrote a book called A Quest for Alex.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it's a really, really cool story, but um, he might be a good guy for you to interview.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_04: I would I would love any and anyone else that you recommend.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_04: What I'm trying to do is so you know, one of the things I've discovered in my interviews, so I was taking a bit of a research approach to them too, and I've discovered that we have these six dad gaps, and these are the gaps of modern fatherhood that are really preventing us from um kind of feeling both as fulfilled and confident in our fatherhood as we want to be.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_04: And and the first one we all share, it's time, right?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like this work-life balance.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like, is that is that even possible?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: We're trying to balance our kids and our careers and our partners if we have them, and then our own mental well-being and our physical health.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_04: And it and like, you know, women have the moms have the exact same problem, but you know what they're good at that is also our gap?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_04: They're good at talking to each other about it, right?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_04: And that's one of the other big gaps is like I call it the brotherhood gap.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_04: We we aren't having enough conversations as dads.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_04: And and even the men that I've spoken to that get together with other dads, I ask them if they have, you know, deep conversations about like the things that they're worried about with their kids, and they're not necessarily doing that.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_04: And so there's that big, profound gap there.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_04: And then the third gap that I mentioned, which is this confidence gap.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then the fourth is this co-parenting gap because God, this is hard, right?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how do we co-parent together when we have different triggers?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, we we see different, we see things differently, but at the same time, we both love the absolute most uh our kids.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like so emotional.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, we're not necessarily always well prepared to to co-parent.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and and then there's the legacy gap, which is again like this difference between um reactive and and having intention and like a full sort of fatherhood philosophy um for for parenting.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_04: And then um uh and then the the the last one I call is the role model gap.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_04: And that's where you know we don't really have a blueprint for what great fatherhood looks like because we're doing fatherhood pretty different than our dads.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um so these are these six big dad gaps, and um, I try to address um all of them in in the programs that I run for ambitious dads.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it's just it's super meaningful, and it's um something that we all need to do a a lot more of.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_03: What do you tell me, what do you think the best um not the best, the biggest difference your dad did uh versus what you're doing for your that he did for you versus what you're doing for your boys?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_04: Biggest difference um uh emotional regulation.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think that the idea of a good dad in our parents' time was being the provider.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I definitely want to be a provider now, but I want to be an emotional provider, not just an economic provider.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_04: I think that is the biggest difference and the biggest expectation difference that we have.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would agree, ma'am.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's funny.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you'd at 40, let's see, 48 or 47, if you'd have told me I'm gonna get on Snapchat for the first time, I'm like, I'm not getting on Snapchat.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not 15.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I tell you, man, me and my son have like a 300 and something day snap streak because another dad I interviewed said, Hey, if your kids are going to college, you better get on Snapchat.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I'm not getting on Snapchat.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, okay.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: He's not gonna respond to your text.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: I go, Yeah, you will.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: Sure as shit, dude.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: He was right.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: Now, not because he didn't want to, it's like that I had to meet my kids where they were.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: And he is a big Snapchat guy, which a lot of these kids are at at high school and college, whatever.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: And now it's my new thing.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I'm doing that with them, you know, and it's like it feels actually cool to be able to like change, get out of my own way, adopt a new skill, ask for help.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_03: Now he's the expert, he's teaching me how to use Snapchat.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and uh, but yeah, my dad, God love him.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: My dad, unfortunately, passed away December 29th, 2021.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: And um, but my dad was like the most supportive, all my games, but like he worked a kind of the sales job selling washers and dryers and appliances and was gone sometimes weekends working retail.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I never feel like I missed out on, but like I know the conversations I'm having with my kids are a lot different than the conversations he has.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think maybe it's time and environment, but um, I just think a lot of guys, that's why I'm so passionate about vulnerability.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think a lot of dads are vulnerable to talk about where they suck, where they're fearful, what their weaknesses were.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I think those are the strengths.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like even my daughter who I mentioned before we interviewed Shitori ACL, it uh it brought back like PTSD for me for uh injuries for my injury, yeah, yeah, man.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it like I was emotional big time for a week, and I was like, I couldn't even stop it.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, what the shit, man, get your shit together.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: But then I was like, you know, I'm gonna embrace this and give myself grace.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, hey, honey, I just said I this is bringing up a lot of tough times for your dad, but like I I it really sucks seeing you go through what you're going through, and I'm but I'm I'm glad I went through it, and I know that you'll be glad you went through it because you're tough.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: You're tough in our family, don't tell your brother.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_03: But um it's uh yeah, it's just it's just interesting stuff, man, to this journey that we're all on.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_04: I couldn't agree more, and it's so lovely to be challenged to keep growing, right?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I love you, yeah.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_04: With them and to keep up with them.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_04: And um, yeah, it's awesome.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_04: That's what I love about fatherhood.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: If you were to uh if you were to say, like, because obviously with us dads, we have one thing we have in common is we we all got gaps.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: We're all trying our best.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what would be an area of your dad game, Jeff, where you're like, you know, it's that's not where you want it, but you're working hard that that might relate to other dads at home.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know, I've wrote an article about this recently.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so the one that's most top of mind is um so when I play with my kids, like one of the things they know is I love to cook, so they cook with me, right?
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_04: Or like my youngest is really into Uno now.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_04: So we'll play Uno together because I also don't mind, you know, sitting and doing that.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_04: But my kids also like stuff that bore the absolute hell out of me.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_04: And one of them is Beyblades.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_04: They like these, you know, it's like the spinning top that you're like, they spin in the stadium and they slam against each other.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_04: And like, um, I mean, it's like paint drying for me.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I realized that um they adapt their curiosities for my interest, but I wasn't adapting my curiosities enough for theirs.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_04: And so um, it was actually in a in a in a podcast conversation with another dad where we both realized for him it was Fortnite.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_04: His son really loved Fortnite and he and kept asking him to play it all the time with him.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_04: And and I, my kids always asked me to do Beyblades, and I would always say no.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because I was doing plenty to stay engaged with them, but like, and and I we had this conversation, we're like, let's try the stuff that bores the hell of a uh hell out of us, but that are really that would really connect us to our kids in in that way.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_04: And so now I try to play some blade blades with my boys.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I'd say that's the thing I'm working on and trying to keep an eye out for the other things that like they'll take a passion to, a liking to, and you know, my inclination will be okay, that's fine, that can be your thing, without actually like getting down into the dirt and doing it with them.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_04: So that's what I'm trying to work on right now.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great one, man.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's um, you know, what the easy one of the most popular answers, I'm sure you're not surprised, is patience.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think what you what what that that one is a big one that every dad can find is, you know, if like my dad, my uh my son, golf was our thing.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: I love golf, he loves golf.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_03: It was easy.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_03: Four hours, five hours we're together.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_03: But like my daughter loves hoop, I love rebounding for her, but like I found myself I wasn't going out of my way to get super curious.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: And what are some things that may and maybe challenge them to something they don't know or they don't do well, or that you know, and I had a dad recently interviewed him, his he was struggling to connect with his son, but his son like loves like hardcore, like butt rock acid music, like just you know, heavy shit.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so he was like, So he's like this golf executive.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, he freaking, so he says, screw it, I'm going to the concert, you know, and like good for that's just it to me, that's like so heartwarming, and like, why why not?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: It goes back to the belief we talked about in the beginning, or just getting outside your comfort zone or to to your being an ambitious dad, go go do it, take the initiative and and put yourself in there.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think it's cool that you're you're leading it, you're walking the walk, and you're also um just working hard to become that better elite babe later like you were at gymnastics.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: How can um how can dads make how can I make it really easy for our my listeners to learn more about you and your work and uh become a fan of ambitious dads?
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_04: Please just go to ambitiousdads.com, sign up for the newsletter, also check out my podcast, which is probably in all the same place as yours is.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, lots of other interesting conversations with dads.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm really trying to focus on those those six gaps that I talked about in our conversations.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_03: And is the podcast Ambitious Dads Podcast?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's called the Ambitious Dads Podcast.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: I will make sure that's linked.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: Is there social channels that you like to have people follow as well?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Ambitious Dads on on uh Instagram and otherwise just follow me, Jeff Hitner, on LinkedIn.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_04: That's my big one.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: I will make sure this is all linked in the show notes.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_03: Jeff, Jeff, it's now time.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, actually, before I go into my last fun where I get into like lightning around stuff, if you were to summarize everything we've talked about into like two or three actionable themes that dads can take from our conversation and become a better ultimate quarterback or leader of his home, tell me what comes to mind.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_04: There isn't an uh a chat GPT button for this.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um I I mean, I think it would be about some of those themes I talked about, right?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like good dad is about presence and great dad is about intention.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I think it's about maybe challenging ourselves on um engaging in the things that our kids love, not necessarily the kit things that we love.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um and then um I think we talked a lot about kind of being rooted in values too, and I think that's another really important thing.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_04: I think different families take that to different levels.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_04: Some have family values that everyone in the family knows.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_04: Others, you just sort of think it's there in your head.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, um, your kids are gonna know for sure if if it's more explicit.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that's really a fun, interesting um exploration that you can do with your family.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_03: You'd even need Chat GPT, brother.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_03: You nailed it.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's awesome.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_03: I loved it.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that's that's the the mic drop moment is good dads are present, great dads are intentional.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: It should be like a t-shirt or a tattoo.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_04: Well, now you mentioned it, someone printed it.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_04: There you go.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_03: Tag us when you get tattoos, dad.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_03: All right, now it's time to go into the lightning round, which I just show you the the negative hits of taking too many hits in college, not bong hits, but football hits.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, your job is to answer these questions as quickly as you can.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_03: My job is to try to get a giggle out of you.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_03: Are you ready?
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_03: You were the stunt double in old school when Vince Vaughn nailed the iron cross with a cigarette.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: True or false?
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_03: False.
• 56:09
  unknown: Damn it.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: I thought you were gonna sneak in that and sneak that one into me.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if you were to go back and USA gymnastics coach called you right today and you had one event.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_03: We're taking on the Russians, the Germans, who else we're gonna take on to bring home the gold for America.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: What event are you doing?
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the food vendor event, the guy selling the hot dogs on the sides.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, you're I'm done doing gymnastics.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: No more.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_03: No more rings.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_03: No more.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, tell me the last book you read.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh 10X is easier than 2x.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_03: What would be one uh genre of music that might surprise uh your friends or family or your colleagues that you listen to?
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_04: Uh well, I live in Spain now, so I don't even know what the genre would be, but it's like Spanish dance music because I I live very close to a biza.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's a 20-minute flight.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_04: So there's like housey dance music that I like.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_03: Does the running man transition, that dance move transition to Spain?
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, because that's like my go-to.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it depends on where you are and you're uh imbibing for the night.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh if you were to take your partner or wife on a vacation right now, no kids, where are you going?
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um right now it's winter.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, uh skiing in the Alps.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if there was to be a book written about your life, tell me the title.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um Living in the Gray Area.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_03: Now living in the gray area.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_03: Netflix and Hulu and Amazon, they're fighting for it.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_03: One of them's gonna get the movie.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, they're gonna make this thing go just viral everywhere.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_03: You are now the casting director.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: I need to know who's gonna star Jeff Hitner in this critic, clear critically acclaimed Hit in a movie.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, everyone used to say that I looked like the main character in American Pie, uh, but I don't even remember his name.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_04: But also, there's um uh uh the the the rabbi from that hit show Nobody Wants This, which was what was that on?
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_04: That's such a good show.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, everyone also thinks I look like that guy.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_04: So, and he I find him to be a good looking guy, so I'll go with him.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_04: But I again I don't know his name.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, random thought on that.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I have a friend who's shout out to Hillary if you're listening, which I know she's not.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: She's Jewish, but not like like hardcore like church Jewish, but she's Jewish.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was like watching that show, I looked at my wife, I'm like, I think I could be a rabbi.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm I'm and so then I joke to Hillary and she's like, You're such a dipshit.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I'm being serious.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's like I love I love what he's doing.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like he's building relationships and being driving positivity in the world.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so now I learned about like when they talk about Shabbat, which is like family dinners on Friday nights.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: So now when I text her, I'm like, hey, can we Shabbat this week?
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of fun and random, but anyway, I love that show.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_03: I love you you brought it up.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and then uh tell me two words that would describe your partner.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh spontaneous and um loving.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_03: There we go.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_03: Lightning rounds complete.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_03: We both giggled.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_03: I went random as usual.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, Jeff, I'm glad that your your team found us, and I'm glad that we can highlight the work you're doing.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope that um you got a new follower in ambitiousdads.com.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna I'm gonna join the newsletter and and follow your work and find ways to get better myself.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we'll make it easier for all of our guests to uh to do this as well.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_03: And if everybody at this episode spoke to you, uh do us a favor and share it with a friend.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, as a reminder, this is a project for fun.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_03: This is not a money generator for this guy, your host, but it's a way that I can become a better dad myself, better husband, hopefully, a better friend, um, better leader myself, and rooting in the values that we we talked about throughout this episode.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: But um grateful for everybody's who continues to listen.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_03: And Jeff, I'm grateful for your time.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's probably late in Spain.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have no idea what the time zones are, but uh I'm sure it's not one o'clock in the afternoon.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's 10.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's 10.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, geez, you gotta get to bed.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I'm grateful for you, man.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I um I hope our paths will continue to cross, but keep up the great work.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_04: Me as well.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much for having me.