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84: How to Live Life Unapologetically w/ Sean Whalen · Harder Than Life

• 0:00
  This episode is sponsored by National Technology Management. Visit trustntm.com for more information. I'm Kelly Siegel and this is Harder Than Life, a podcast about self-love, self-awareness, business, and health. We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple, practical advice you can start using today. Let's get living.
• 0:21
  Welcome to the Heart of Life podcast, where we uncover the stories of individuals who defy convention and carve their own path to success. Today, we have the privilege of introducing Sean Whalen, the visionary behind the empowering movement Lions Not Sheep. Sean is not just an entrepreneur. He's a disruptor, a catalyst for change and a voice for those who refuse to settle for mediocrity.
• 0:44
  Through his powerful message of authenticity and self-empowerment, Sean inspires countless individuals to break free from societal constraints and embrace their inner lion. Join us as we delve into Sean's journey, exploring the challenges he's faced, the lessons he's learned, and the wisdom he imparts to all those who dare to live life on their own terms. Get ready to be inspired by Sean Whalen's story on the Harder Than Life podcast.
• 1:08
  Welcome, my brother. What's up, man? This is odd. We're like, you have to look at each other. I'm just going to look at you right here. We're going to do that. Whatever. What's up? That's quite the intro, by the way. Thank you. You know, this is a long time coming, and we're going to tell the audience because nothing was working correctly today, but this is kind of embodiment of lion's life sheep. Lions just get things done. Let's do it. So we just moved podcast studios. We're sitting next to each other when we're not supposed to, and this is still going to be working. It works.
• 1:36
  What inspired you to create the Lions Not Sheep movement and what does it represent to you on your personal level? So I went through, I like to call it a midlife crisis. And by midlife crisis, I burned my marriage to the ground, my business to the ground. And at 31 years old, found myself trying to figure out why I was even here, like why I was even alive. Not like, hey, what's the next chapter? But like, what's my purpose even being here?
• 2:03
  And in that process, lines that she came to me, literally the three words came to me. And a lot of people don't know this, but it became my own personal mantra for years. Before I ever talked about it, before I ever shared it, before there was ever a t-shirt, before there was ever coaching, it was literally, I wrote it on my bathroom mirror as kind of the, the, the literal mantra of my, what I like to call 2.0, you know, 1.0 is this
• 2:28
  guy who did what he was told, build life how he was supposed to build it, had the wife and the house and the kids and the cars and the business. And I hated who I was. I hated who I was. I didn't know why I was doing anything. You know, on the paper, it was like super successful. But I was like, why the fuck am I even here? Like, what am I doing any of this for?
• 2:46
  And so 2.0, I chose to step into this world where it was like, you know, I want to build life on my terms. I want to do it the way that I want to do it. Yeah, this is how it's supposed to look and what people are supposed to look like, but I wasn't happy there. And so it became literally something that I saw every single day and wrote it on my bathroom mirror and read it and read it and read it. And so
• 3:07
  For me, as I started kind of rebuilding my life, I looked at everything I said, everything I did as that reality. Like, am I doing this as a sheep or is this a lion move? Because the truth of the matter is in a very simple way, there's a very dramatic difference between a sheep and a lion. A sheep will go do whatever it's told where a lion does whatever the fuck it wants. When a lion wants to eat, he goes out and he kills something and eats. If he wants to sleep under a tree all day, he sleeps under a tree all day and nobody fucks with him.
• 3:33
  So a lion literally does whatever he wants on his terms. And it's been a fun experience and a radical journey for me. Timeframes. When you said 31, how old are you now? 45. So we're talking 14 years ago. You see how quickly I did that math? Yeah, you're good. I'd have been like this, you know?
• 3:52
  So 14 years ago, and in that time, how long you've been, it's well documented, you're married to a beautiful sax, and it's five years from there? Three. Three. We just celebrated three. So I listened to, so that's about a 10-year, 11-year span. What went on? What was the moment, and what was the change, and was there, usually there's a drinking or drugs or a frickin' rock bottom moment. Yeah. Did you hit a rock bottom? I did. I did.
• 4:21
  My divorce, when I talk about walking away from my marriage, it wasn't, there was no infidelity, there was no drugs. We just literally emotionally moved apart and just didn't want to be together anymore. And in that process, I mean, there was a lot of pain. There was a lot of depression. There was a lot of facing my own shit. And I was suicidal.
• 4:41
  And I didn't really know why I wanted to live. I didn't know why I wanted to be here. And there was a moment and there was a night. I talk about this in my book where, you know, I'd gone through this divorce and there was that. I talk about the elephant on my chest where like I couldn't breathe. Like, fuck, what did I do? Did I fuck all this up? And it was a night where I just I needed some connection.
• 5:05
  I moved out of this huge house into this little teeny condo, and here I was trying to fucking figure my life out. And so I ended up calling my ex-wife wanting to talk to her. She didn't want to have anything to do with it. And anyways. Sook, COVID. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, she ended up hanging up the phone, and I drank myself to oblivion that night, and I put a Ruger P95 in my mouth.
• 5:24
  And I was having like the cartoons, the conversation with the devil and the angel and saying, you know, I've ruined my life. I've, you know, gone down this road and made millions of dollars, lost millions of dollars, ruined this marriage. You know, maybe it would be better if I left. My kids are young enough that then they could be raised by somebody normal.
• 5:44
  Because I never looked at myself as normal. Here was this entrepreneur from a young age, you know, raised by a single mom where I'm just like carving out my life and building my life. And I'm like, is that wrong? Is it bad? Like questioning myself, right? And got out a different plan. And I woke up the next morning and I remember very vividly, it wasn't like, okay, I'm going to change my life. I'm going to, you know, here's my comeback. It was like, I just knew that I didn't want to die.
• 6:11
  I just knew that I didn't want to die. I didn't have any other vision. I didn't have any other plan. I just knew that I didn't want to check out. And so I started a journey there. I started really reaching out for help and reaching out for guidance. And there was no pills or addiction or anything. I just had a bunch of freaking whiskey because it's just...
• 6:30
  pain. Right. And I started doing something that I'd never done before. I started asking for help. I started reaching out to people for guidance. Like, Hey man, I'm angry. I don't want to be angry. Why am I angry? You know, why do I have all of this resentment? And why do I have all this fucking fear? Like I'm this guy who's supposed to just have it all together, but I don't.
• 6:47
  And I just started telling the truth. I started opening my shit up and telling the truth. And that was really the pivotal moment for me where life started to really take off and change. I got super fucking real with myself. I got super raw and did things that I wasn't accustomed to doing, like asking for help, like telling the truth.
• 7:07
  Oh, man, you just actually said the heart of the life whole freaking story. This is why we get along well. So in my journey, my crusade, so to speak, you keep saying you ruined a marriage, but was it doomed to start because you weren't healed and then –
• 7:25
  No, I don't think that at all. I truly believe that we have seasons. We all have seasons, right? And we don't see it. Because we've been programmed. I mean, we could spend hours on this conversation, but you go back to how we were raised, right? And I don't care who you are, black, white, rich, poor, gay, straight. Most of us were raised the exact same way. Did you pick your name? No.
• 7:46
  Nope. Did you pick like your morals or anything? No, I picked my nose, man. That's about it. That's about it. So as you're born, you're, you're raised by these parents and this indoctrination idea through church or through school. Here's what's right. Here's what's wrong. Here's what's good. Here's what's bad. Do this. You're going to go to hell. Do this. You're going to go to heaven. You're in school. Like you got to go to the bathroom, raise your hand. They'll give you a little pass. You go to the bathroom. They do the deal. We're really literally programmed as children.
• 8:14
  Not to offend people, not to piss people off, not to say anything that's going to bother anybody, right? Everybody. And yet, that's what makes us unique. And so if you think back to it, you know, we're programmed this way. And as we get older and older and older, the programming just becomes more and more intense. Like,
• 8:33
  You look around the world today and everybody's fucking offended by everything, right? Where we've been programmed not to say shit. It's going to offend anybody. And if you do, then you're bad and you're wrong. And so for me, I realized that like that was the programming that I had become accustomed to. And so I was programmed to lie.
• 8:51
  You're programmed to say what needs to be said, do what needs to be done. Here's what's socially acceptable. Here's what makes you good. Here's what makes you bad. Here's what makes you worthy. Here's what makes you not worthy. And so literally from a very young age, we've been programmed to lie. So I realized, you know, when I was really young, like I've been programmed to lie, I've been programmed to say what needs to be said, do what needs to be done. And it led me to a place of,
• 9:15
  of real trouble. And I didn't really understand who I was. I'd never planted my flag and figured out who the hell Sean Whalen was. And that's really the journey that I've been on since then. So many things to unpack there. First of all, I'm glad that you didn't pull the trigger. Me too. I'm glad you didn't have that because
• 9:33
  I've known you a short time and I enjoy you. And we've always scratched the surface of what we're going to do together because we're very similar people. It's, it's very weird that you just said that I didn't, my parents were alcoholics never around. There was nobody to tell me what to do. So I blazed this path of, I'm going to say what I want, do what I want. And you've seen that. When the day I walked in, you're like, this dude's going to do whatever he wants. And I do got me a lot of trouble, but it's fun. It definitely is. But that's why I got so big because,
• 10:01
  You're going to tell me what to do. I'm going to do what I want to do. I'm a lion as it comes to it. So having said that, I'm glad you didn't. And those of you, this is my two-second talk about –
• 10:14
  Suicide, you know, you have choices. And I know it's certain times you think that you don't. And in Sean's case, look at what he's doing in terms of philanthropy. He's remarried, has a beautiful family, a beautiful wife. He's loving his life. Look how fricking handsome he is. Second best hand, second best looking guy on this video right now. And, uh, doing big things. So we're going to dig into that. And, and I just appreciate it. And I want everybody to know that there's, there's options. Yeah. Having said that back up a little bit, you know, I don't,
• 10:45
  How did you grow up? Where'd you grow up? I grew up in Washington, D.C. No way. In the city. Yeah. And so I my dad worked for the government and I have one younger brother. So we grew up playing sports and in in the humidity of D.C. with lots of politics around. Man, I swear I've been to D.C. many times. It's.
• 11:06
  It is just boring. Yeah. How did you end up here in Utah? So my parents split up when I was in, my parents got divorced in between my sophomore and junior year. So my mom was Mormon, my dad was Catholic. And mom was like, they got divorced. And she's like, there's this place called Zion, like this Utah where all the Mormons are. We should just go out there. So literally she packed up a U-Haul and we trekked across the country. And so I had my junior and senior year of high school here in Utah and been here ever since. And stayed, nice.
• 11:36
  So you were talking about those in those 11 years and that you asked for help. So who are some of the this is an odd question for me to ask you. I look at you as such a big, strong man. And but yet you've been very vulnerable with me and everybody that I've seen that that's close to you. Who have been your mentors and what books? What did you do during that 11 years?
• 11:59
  that the audience might be able to take the, the, well, I'll, I'll tell you some, some of the guys that I started working with, but more than that, it became a shift in my, in my reality where I became vulnerable. And you know, this is the, this is that big word and la la la la la. And everybody's got an idea around it. But like, I, I, I had a ton of pride, man. I thought I knew everything. You know, I thought I had every answer and it cost me millions of dollars. It cost me my marriage. It cost me mental clarity.
• 12:26
  And so I just, the very first thing I started doing was just asking people for guidance. I'd never really done that before. Who'd you ask? Anybody that we know today? Well, my very, the very first coach that I ever worked with was Garrett White, who started Wake Up Warrior. So an interesting story there is Garrett and I go way back. So Garrett had his kind of midlife crisis. I had mine, kind of similar timeframe. And I was the very first person that he ever actually talked to about Wake Up Warrior.
• 12:52
  And so it's fascinating because he's shared this and he and I have been friends for many, many, many years. And it's funny because he hit me up one day and he's like, hey, man, I'm thinking about doing this like men's program, this men's thing. He's like, would you do it? I was like, yeah, dude, I'm in for sure. Like, let's do it. Right. And he's talked about how that call literally became pivotal for him because that gave him the confidence to start this deal. So a couple weeks later, he has him back. He's like, all right, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to do this event. It's going to be in Arizona, whatever, whatever. It's five grand.
• 13:21
  I'm like, go fuck yourself. I'm not giving you five grand. Like I didn't get coaching. I didn't understand. I never hired a coach before. Right. And so that kind of became that ego check for me where I realized what coaching was and what guidance was. And to make a long story short, I ended up going through warrior and then and then helping him run it for a year and then.
• 13:38
  We kind of parted ways. And then that's kind of where Lions on Sheep started. And a lot of what you see today, you know, I learned from him and he learned from his coaches and mentors. And so you get these guys who became vulnerable and, you know, Garrett. And that's through Warrior. I met Jesse Elder.
• 13:54
  who became a dear friend and a dear mentor of mine. And so over the years, I think what it really boils down to is men just becoming more vulnerable, saying, hey, man, teach me some shit. It's like working out, right? You can go to the gym and bang your head against the wall trying to get fit, or you just go find the really fit motherfucker and be like, all right, tell me what you eat and tell me what you lift.
• 14:13
  It's way simpler to do it that way. I used to call it a dick measuring contest. You know, we'd come in, it's two guys here. Who's going to be the bigger one? Now we're like, dude, how can I help you? This is, but most dudes don't do that. Most guys won't do that. Most dudes live in this place of isolation where, you know, they want to have their own fricking ego and asking questions or weakness and asking for help or guidance is weak. And that was really the first point for me. And so, I mean, over that, you know, the last year,
• 14:37
  10, 11 years, I mean, I've had mentors and shamans and done plant medicine and gone down the rabbit hole of just really understanding, like, who the fuck am I? Like, why am I here? And there's layer upon layer upon layer upon layer upon layer. And to me, it's a never ending quest.
• 14:53
  You know what I'm saying? Like we've never found the bottom of the ocean or the edge of the universe. Like I'm just scratching the surface here. So I'm like I've gone from being that prideful asshole who doesn't ask for anything. Now I'm like I'm like a child. Like I'm like a sponge. I want everything. Give me everything. Who's got something that I don't have? Who's been down a rabbit hole? I haven't been down. Okay, let's go. Like and I love it because to me.
• 15:14
  I just keep expanding and growing and it's helping me become a better father, a better husband, a better man, a better leader. And it's way more fun that way, man, because one of my favorite books is the dark side of the light chasers written by Debbie Ford. And she talks about how when we're born, we're born into these infinite mansions, right? You get kids. I have a daughter.
• 15:34
  Little kids, they don't know anything. They pick their nose. They eat their boogers. They stick a fork in an outlet. They put their finger in their butt. They don't know. There's no, there's purity. It's all social media. But that's true. Like if you have a child, you put it, you put a little, a little, a little kid in a bathtub. There's no like penis and vagina and weird. It doesn't exist. These kids are pure, right? I got five kids. I know what the fuck I'm talking about. And if you stop and think about it, like, hey.
• 15:59
  How is it that we go from that purity and inquisitiveness and desire for more to living these one dimensional lives? We fuck the same way. We eat the same food. We travel the same spot. We go to the same shit job. And it's just this record that just keeps repeating itself.
• 16:15
  Well, it's because of all the programming. And so my entire thesis and philosophy is how do I get back to living in that mansion? How do I go back to that childlike stake where I'm curious about everything and I wonder about everything and I'm open to everything, right? Religion programs you. This is the only way. This is the only book. This is the only thing. This is that, that, that, that, you know, and you find these most, most adults that I've found, especially men are living these lives where they hate their fucking life.
• 16:44
  They hate who they are, where they are. They can't stand their marriage. They can't stand their job. If you peel back the layers and talk about truth, and most men want more, but the reality is we're like literally living in this one bedroom studio versus this massive infinite mansion.
• 17:00
  So for me, I seek out now men and women and guides and people that can help me expand my mindset, my understanding, my knowledge base, right? And to me, that's power. Where a lot of people look at vulnerability as like this weakness, I look at it as power.
• 17:16
  Man, you're blowing my mind right now. Because if you listen to anything I say, I always say be vulnerable. The vulnerability is cool. It bonds you. I don't think most people even know what it is. I don't think, you hear the word. Most dudes don't know what vulnerability is. They think it's like, oh, you're just gonna cry. I'll just go fucking cry. That's not vulnerability, man.
• 17:36
  Like I want to be the guy. Let me tell you I love you, man. I can feel your freaking energy right here. I can feel your energy. It's like I want to learn. And there's a million people out there that know way more than me. That vulnerability is not being the big dick walking in the room going, yo, I fucking got it. It's like, no, teach me.
• 17:54
  It's becoming humble. It's being able to be led. I've said this before, and I'll say it a thousand times more, and this is like the dichotomy of lions, not sheep. And most people don't understand this. The very best leaders have mastered the art of following.
• 18:09
  The very best leaders have mastered the art of following. Because I guarantee you on your journey, you can be the big bad lion. There's been a bigger lion. And you followed bigger lions many, many, many, many times. And if you stop and think about that, that's powerful.
• 18:26
  That's power. So as I follow God or I follow him or I follow her, I follow this or I follow whatever it is. Like I now walk into a space that I've never been, which now creates a leadership capacity in me. So all the people behind me, I help bring them into that space, too. So I think a lot of people have this this idea of vulnerability is like this. We just sit around and cry all fucking day long. And it's not that at all.
• 18:51
  Yeah, man, you're blowing my mind. You're literally, I look into a mirror, and your story is just exactly the same. I'm way better looking than you, bro, just so we're clear. Listen, there goes the ego again.
• 19:03
  We'll wait to see when we see your wife. We'll do a poll right here. Who's hotter? We'll ask her. Who's bigger? Anyways, man, so I can only imagine how you're, so you have a lion's den. It's a mastermind. Talk to me. Talk to me. I can only imagine how those calls go. How many people are in your mastermind? Right now, we've got about 2,000 active members in there. We've had over the last, I started it 10 years ago. We've had 44, almost 45,000 people join.
• 19:31
  Um, I've never run an ad. I've never marketed it. It's all organic. Um, you know, and I share what I learned, you know, years ago, which is core four. I wrote about it in my book, but it's, it's, uh, core four is power, passion, purpose, and production. It's basically the four legs of the table, power being your body, passion, being relationships, purpose, being your mindset, your spirituality, and then production business. There's really nothing that happens in my life. It's outside of one of those four things. And so for me, it's, it's building this map of,
• 20:01
  you know, serve the greater good of all of these areas. Cause you know, there's a lot of dudes that are super rich and they're fat as fuck. There's a lot of guys that have shitty marriages, but they got, you know, a car collection worth $50 million. And so to me, I don't believe in balance. I believe that you can invest your time where you want it to be, you know, growing. And that's what core four is to me. So every single day we teach in the lion's den, you know, power, passion, purpose, and production is so long as you're investing in all four of those areas, you can build anything you want.
• 20:32
  Microphone drop right there. That was a masterclass. So how do people join the lines then? Lionsnotsheepcoaching.com. And then you also have a podcast. Got a podcast. How's that? Tell us about that. Started that. It's been hit and miss. It's been on and off because I just am neurotic like that. And I'll get sick. I...
• 20:53
  If I'm super passionate about something, I'm all in. If I'm not, then I'm like, meh. But the ego is like, oh, you got to keep going into the whole thing. So I've done, I don't even know how many episodes of the Sean Whalen show and interviewed a lot of great people and they've just kind of fired it back up. And I'm having a lot of fun with it. I'm having a really good time with the podcast because you get to sit down and
• 21:12
  talk to like, I'm kind of like the Joe Rogan model where it's like, there's people that I want to talk to and I want to hear their stories and I want to learn from them. You know what I'm saying? And so most recently I had a buddy of mine, um, Cody was on, and then, uh, Ray cash, who was a Navy seal. And to be able to, for me not having served in the military to sit down with the Navy seal and hear his stories and learn how he operates and these things, it's like, it makes me a better man. The beauty is we get to share with the world. You know what I'm saying? So I'm having a really good time with the podcast again.
• 21:41
  Well, I'm 48, so I'm three years older than you. And I'm sitting here learning like a master class. I'm honored. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. And I want to tell you, she's sitting here. We listen to your podcast on Sean Finnegan's. And I'm looking at him going, that's the exact life I want to live. Yeah. So listening to you, the life that you're cultivating, you're building with your wife and your kids and how you're...
• 22:06
  Everything is together. She said the same thing to me. She said, Oh my God, this is what we're doing. And so it's no coincidence. You know, Cody just reached out to me on fricking social media, introduced me to Sean Finnegan. I came here, met you. Here we are again, throwing in a makeshift studio.
• 22:22
  we're going to freaking be friends forever. And so I've got to ask you, um, I should have known that you and Garrett white were friends. You're very similar people. Wait, what a mad props to him on that last, on his last, uh, um, show that he did. He was ripped. What was his weight? I don't know. I think he's like one, he's, he's bulking up to do another one right now. Like he's like, I think two 20, he's going to two 20. Have you ever done any shows? Uh,
• 22:48
  It's the hardest thing in the world. I've thought about it, and I've done two Ironman races. I'm always trying to set a target for something challenging physically. And I did MMA for a number of years. I had five professional MMA fights. And then when I was done with that, it was like, what's the next thing? And I had a buddy. He's like, you should do an Ironman. What the fuck's an Ironman? It's crazy.
• 23:10
  So I Google it, I look it up, and I'm like, yeah, I hate running, and I don't even have a bike, you know, and swim. So I literally signed up for the Coeur d'Alene Ironman, and James Lawrence, the Iron Cowboy, I don't know if you know who he is, but he actually worked for me for a while. This is before he did any of his…
• 23:29
  world records. Uh, and so he actually trained me. And so I learned how to swim. I learned how to bike. I learned how to run and I did an Ironman and I did two of those. And, and, uh, I've been thinking about doing a show. I've got a couple of friends that are, that are, uh, big bodybuilders that are like, dude, you should do it. And like, all right. I didn't want in college, man. I had to tell you the discipline, I'm sure you've done 75 hard and you've done all these little, the
• 23:55
  of not putting crap in your body and then training when you don't want to and everything hurts and, and doing po it, it was, that was the hardest thing. I've done 75 hard. I've done, I've done everything except, and I don't want to do it again. Yeah. I, there's nothing drawing me to it right now, but I definitely, I definitely enjoy the fitness game. That's for sure. So I didn't have this on the questions, but I I've been dying to ask you since I watched that podcast is so you,
• 24:18
  you met sacks and you chased after her and then kind of, it was a start and a stop. And then she drew a boundary. So what that, the love that you guys show and have for each other is on, off the charts. Yeah.
• 24:33
  What was the strife to get that thing going? Were you? Oh, man, we're in it right now. We're in the middle of it. We're opening up a whole new level and going through our own shit. And we have been since day one. But, like, we both have a really, really, really big vision.
• 24:53
  for love, for connection. We've both been down the path. I mean, she's been married before I've been married before. Um, I have three kids. She has two kids. And as we were dating, you know, the, the interesting thing when we go back, of course she knows this. And I always joke about it that she slid up in my DMS, but I was the one who slipped in her DMS. And I don't remember how we started following each other, but she shared an Alan Watts video.
• 25:17
  If you know Alan Watts, Alan Watts is like this really incredible philosopher. He was around in the early 19, or 1950s, 60s. Wildly just like intriguing man. And he's just a spiritual guru, right? And so she had shared a video and I saw it and I DMed her or said something. She has screenshots of all this. Proving her story that I'm the one who slid up in the DMs. But it's an interesting thing because...
• 25:47
  we both want more, you know, we both want deep. And when we first started dating, we call it our 1.0. We both had this idea, but neither of us was living the life, right? She was still doing her thing and I was still doing my thing. And it reached this kind of climax where she's like, all right, go fuck yourself. Like, but the truth is, is like, she didn't know how to handle me and I didn't really know how to handle her. So we broke up, but we had both kind of,
• 26:10
  seen something and experienced something that we knew we wanted, but we just hadn't evolved into it yet. And so our 2.0. One second right there. Yeah. Was it, was that neither one of you were, were able were willing to surrender and be vulnerable? I don't think it was that. I think it was the fact that like we had this euphoric idea and we knew that we hadn't evolved ourselves to step into that game because you know, what's comfortable.
• 26:38
  You know what's comfortable, right? And I'm not a relationship guru or psychologist or whatever, but I've read enough, studied enough, and more importantly, lived enough to know what this game really is, right? And you know what's comfortable. If you see people that go from toxic relationship to toxic relationship, trauma bond to trauma bond, eventually got to stop and stop blaming everybody and saying, oh, shit, maybe it's me.
• 27:03
  You know what I'm saying? Maybe it's me. It is. If you keep finding yourself in the same cyclical patterns, you know what I'm saying? And there's a great deal of humility and vulnerability in that, especially if you're going to try and link up with somebody else and create a union and a bond. And so the 2.0 was really where, you know, she had she showed me some things that I'd never seen that I wanted. And I showed her some things that she had never experienced. And those were kind of the telltale signs where it was like and I look at it as God saying, all right, I'm going to show you this. You say you want this. Here it is.
• 27:33
  And in your mind, you're like, oh, well, that's hard. That hurts. That's scary. Fuck that shit. I'll just keep playing small. And both of us jumped in. And we both were like, let's do this. And it was really interesting because once we decided that, we got married really quick. And at a year, we almost got divorced.
• 27:54
  We were just balls deep running, going. And the thing that I love about our story and even where we are today, which we're in it right now, like we're going through our next level, is it's like you have to continue to evolve. And I think a lot of relationships, they don't address or go into that depth. Yeah.
• 28:15
  And you become very complacent with superficial. And you become very okay with just the status quo. Like, I don't want to rock the boat. Neither she or I know that. We don't rock the boat. We put hand grenades and fucking try and blow it up. Because we want more. And that's an interesting place to be because it requires you to evolve into something bigger. And the thing that's crazy is I don't care how much money you have. I don't care who you are. I've never lived this day.
• 28:43
  And she's never lived this day. And we're not the same people that we were a week ago, let alone a year ago.
• 28:49
  And so there's a really interesting paradox here where, again, like I talked about this earlier, if you find yourself where most people are, they're just very rudimentary. They're very systematic. They do the same things. They're not really pushing the envelope very much. We don't want to rock the boat. We're here for the 401K. We just do the same thing. Yeah, I want to explore sex life, but I don't want to make it uncomfortable, so I'm okay here in the money. And you just become addicted to that reality where she and I are like, fuck that shit. We want everything.
• 29:15
  We want the depth. We want the hardest of hard. And then all of a sudden you show up in that space and it's like, oh shit. And so at a year, we literally like, we got to a level of the game where we were both like, fuck this, we're out. But there was that part in our mind where we're like, well, man, this might be an invitation to something bigger.
• 29:34
  This might be like that little thing of God going, hey, you wanted more? Here you go. You're going to have to eat some shit for a minute. You're going to have to become a different person. You're going to have to grow. You're going to have to get really, really, really uncomfortable. And we did. And here we are now at three years kind of going through a very similar experience where it's like, okay, what's the next level? Where are we going? And we're both being peeled open to new levels. And a lot of people might think that's wrong. A lot of people might look at it and be like, oh, you know, it shouldn't be like that.
• 30:02
  Who says who? Well, hold on a second. It's like pruning a tree. It's like your muscles. When you're tearing your muscles, you have to rip them back and pull it back to grow. That's what you're doing. It sounds like you're doing it right. It sucks. And it's hard sometimes. It's painful at times. But yeah, I agree with you. And I'm 45 and I've gotten to a place where I've been very, very, very hard on myself most of my life. Because I want the game. I want bigger.
• 30:29
  And I'm finally starting to really, I just went to Hawaii for a couple of days just by myself, just totally vegged out, found a little place, just wrote and studied and prayed and just sat with God for a while. And I found a lot of peace and a lot of calm there, you know, because my life has not been peaceful. My life has not been calm. I've been at war my entire life from a little kid. I've been at war battling something or someone my entire life. And it's funny because at 45, I'm kind of going, all right, well,
• 30:58
  Maybe it's time to put down the sword. Well, I'm like, well, fuck, I don't, what does that even mean? I don't even know what that means. But when do you finally figure out the whole game? I don't think you ever will. I think it's a constant evolution. I think I'm going to be 80 years old, God willing, sitting on a rocking chair going, oh shit, I didn't know that.
• 31:16
  And so to me, when you get two people that are in that same space, it's very, very, very difficult. It's very vulnerable. It's incredibly intense. But to me, it's also really beautiful because if you have two people that choose that game together and can learn that dance together,
• 31:36
  What can't you build? I was hoping she was going to be here. She chooses that game, but she also chooses you and you choose her. Yeah. And I got to tell you, when I was sitting in the back of the room and you were taking questions and I asked you guys some questions and, you know, she's, I looked and I said, I want that. And I've cultivated that. And that's what, so standards and boundaries. She told a great story on the podcast about, um.
• 32:02
  You said, hey, move into my house. She goes, yeah, I'm not playing house. I have my own house. I'm beautiful. I love her more as I get to know her and hear her than anything. So you definitely –
• 32:16
  God, God blessed you. Yeah. And that that's dude, as I get to know you, there's just so much more. We could talk for hours. I can't even see how long we've been going. But I got to blaze through some of these questions. The concept of taking the red pill features prominently in your message. Can you explain what that means to you and how it applies to individuals seeking personal liberation and empowerment?
• 32:38
  It's a great question. I think The Matrix, the movie The Matrix is actually a documentary because it tells a story of most human beings today. There's a guy who doesn't really love his life. He's in this shitty apartment. He goes to a job that he can't stand and it's just dingy and gray and dull and there's no excitement. There's no anything. And then all of a sudden this
• 33:02
  you know, thing pops up and then it's a white rabbit. He follows the white rabbit and it leads him to Morpheus. And then Morpheus is like, hey man, you got two choices. Stay where you are.
• 33:13
  or I'm going to show you something. He doesn't tell him what he doesn't tell him how or where or whatever. He's just like, you got a choice. And I think it's a beautiful story because I, I face that choice. I face that choice and see that choice every single day. And so to me, it's like, when you think about being a sovereign individual, a human being, having this experience right now, you know, why wouldn't you want to create something new? Why wouldn't you want to learn? Why wouldn't you want to go down the rabbit hole? You know,
• 33:40
  And that's something that I'm very, very, very passionate about is, is understanding that like, there's more that I don't know than I do know. You know, one of the things that I love about that movie, which is very, very, this is like parallels what I teach and what I talk about. But you remember when he, he takes the pill and he goes in and he's learning all this shit and they have him plugged in and he's like plugged in and they're like, uh, they put the cassette thing and they're like, okay, let's teach him jujitsu. And he learns jujitsu like that.
• 34:09
  Next thing you know, he's learned how to fly a helicopter. And next thing you know, he's learned how to fight. And it's like these instant downloads, right? And it's a really cool scene in the movie where he's having this crazy hard experience and he's plugged into the Matrix. But it's exactly how we're living. Like there's nothing that I can't go do today. If I want to learn how to fly an airplane, I can. I just go fucking learn how to fly an airplane.
• 34:27
  If I wanted to learn how to do brain surgery, I could literally go learn how to do brain surgery. If you wanted it bad enough. Absolutely. But that's exactly my point. There's literally nothing like anybody that's watching this is like, oh, well, you know, I'm destined to be broke or I'm destined to be fat or this or the other. Wrong. You're just dead ass wrong.
• 34:43
  Our life is no different than that. You can literally plug in and with the right process and the right conviction, there's nothing you can't do and there's nothing you can't learn, period. And it doesn't matter who you are, black, white, rich, poor, gay, straight. It doesn't matter how much money you have. It doesn't matter where you are. Like if you wanted to do that, you could go do that. And I think that's that liberation for me.
• 35:05
  where I'm just like, I'm like a little kid, man. And so people want to judge where you are, judge this. Fuck, get the fuck out of here. You're not living me. You're not me, right? But you could literally plug into the matrix. We're living that. We're literally living it. You could plug in at any time and do anything, be anything, grow it. And as the good book talks about, you got this story in the Bible about Saul, who was this total dickhead. He hated Christians and persecuted Christians. And he's walking along one day, and as the Bible says, in the blink of an eye, he becomes Paul.
• 35:35
  So one of the biggest advocates of Christ, he wrote some of the New Testament. He's just walking along one day and in an instant becomes a completely different human being. There's no one listening to this that can't do that exact same thing. Well, that's what happened to you the night that you decided not to pull the trigger. It happened to me on January 1st, 2019. I just, it was just a click of the switch. So there's two things in that movie that I love that you just talked about.
• 36:01
  Number one was when he, when he said, bend the spoon, when he said, no, no, no, you missed it. The spoon does not exist. It's in your mind. Yep. So what that was, is it was a blocking for him. It does not exist. And the second thing is when the lady, when the Oracle told him he was not the one, and then he went out believing that and then turned out he was the one. Yep. So don't believe anything. That movie's brilliant, man. I love that movie. I love that movie.
• 36:25
  So many freaking cool things in that movie. Yeah, man. I'm loving this. I could talk to you for days. This could go on and on and on. I still got a ton more. We're going to go. Looking back on your life thus far, what's one lesson or piece of wisdom you wish you could impart to your younger self? My younger self? Yep. There's so many. Love yourself, man. Like really love who you are. Just love yourself. There's so much.
• 36:55
  I wasn't raised by a dad who showed really any love. I didn't really have any connection there. I didn't understand it. I felt like I had to earn respect and earn love, and it's not true. And when you get to a place in life where you really appreciate who you are and what you are and you start to love it, most of my life I looked at my antics and who I was as this negative.
• 37:18
  I'm loud. I'm outspoken. I cuss. And, and, you know, people would just tell me, you got to slow down, quiet down, slow down, quiet down. I'm like, fuck man. Like I, I don't want to, I want to go faster and bigger. And a number of years ago I got to a place where I realized like, no, this is a gift that God's given. And I've realized like,
• 37:35
  I love who I am. I love what I'm doing. I love my life, you know, and yeah, I'm refining myself over and over and over and get trying to get better. But what does that even fucking mean? And so if I could go back and tell that little kid, you know, just be like, dude, just love yourself. Love who you are. Make tons of fucking mistakes and understand you're learning from them. But just love the process. Love who you are and keep fucking going.
• 37:58
  Keep fucking going. Cause I lived most of my life in shame. I lived most of my life in shame in it and it didn't serve me. We're going to have discussions offline. Cause I got to dig deep into this as you're telling my life. So one of the, one of the rabbit holes I heard, uh, problems I get myself into is I'll meet somebody. And part of doing the work is you can tell when somebody has it. And it's, it's, it's, it's a curse, but a blessing. So when somebody says that, I was just talking to Brit about this. And I said, she doesn't love herself.
• 38:24
  And immediately you say something like that, they immediately, Oh yes, I do. So what could I say better? Cause you're so much, you're, you're further along. What can I say better? Cause it's, we know it's a subconscious. You can tell when somebody doesn't love themselves by the act, the decisions that they make, the actions that they take. And I,
• 38:43
  how could I do a better job because I'm trying to give back to the world and I want to help every single person when somebody is making choices that are not getting them to where they want to be. And it's obvious that their subconscious doesn't love yourself. What can I use instead of that? You know, I, I, I have a really, I just thought of this experience when I was on my Mormon mission.
• 39:02
  There was this family that we were teaching and talking to, and the kids loved video games. The kids were just like these video game nerds, and all they wanted to do is play video games. But as missionaries, we weren't supposed to play video games. And so I called the mission president one day, and I said, hey, man, there's these kids that all they want to do is play video games, and we really are wanting to connect with them. We were just trying to build a relationship with them. And he's like, well, then go play video games with them.
• 39:26
  I was like, okay, cool. And so we started playing video games with these kids. And in an instant, they just warmed up to us and they got excited around us and they got excited to show us these things. And that became a really pivotal lesson for me in life when I realized as a dad, my kids are not gonna have all of the same loves and passions. In fact, I have my two boys, one can throw a football a mile, but he's terrified of dirt bikes. The other kid thinks he's Travis Pastrana and will ride a dirt bike off a cliff, but he throws like a girl.
• 39:55
  And so as a dad, I'm always like, oh, I got to throw the football and do the thing. And I realized I'm like, I want to love my kids where they are.
• 40:04
  And that's one of the things that I didn't get as a kid. Like it was always like, do better. You didn't do enough. You didn't do enough. You're not good enough. You're not did it. You fucked this up. You fucked that up. And you do that long enough and you realize that you're never good enough. Nothing I ever do is going to be good enough. Nothing I ever say is going to be good enough. And that becomes habitual with most human beings. And so I look at it now where I realize like, I don't need to sign off and co-sign on somebody having an addiction or saying, yeah, go be an alcoholic. Let me get pissed drunk with you and join you in your shit party.
• 40:32
  But what I do understand is that people want to be loved where they are.
• 40:38
  And if you're constantly trying to tell somebody you got to be more, I'll love you, but you got to be here. It's like a, it's just like a curse. It's conditional love. It's conditional. And so it's hard for a lot of people because especially parents, because you want your kids. I want my kids to have a better opportunity, a better thing and a better growth and better everything than me. But the reality is you're constantly like shaming the shit out of them for where they are and they don't feel good enough. And I felt that way most of my adult life.
• 41:04
  I'm not enough. I'm not enough. I need to, in order for me to be loved by God, I have to do all of these fucking things. If I got to be loved by my wife, I have to do all these things in order for the market to love me and the business to love me. I have to, and at the end of the day, like there, there's a really beautiful experience of life where you're constantly growing and moving and expanding, but really fucking loving where you are.
• 41:24
  And so I tell my kids, like I'm with my kids all the time. And if they're over here and over here, I go with them and I'm in where they are, loving them where they are. Not like, hey, you're this is wrong and bad and wrong and bad. Yeah, you straighten them out every now and again. Right. But being able to be with them, I can't stand video games. I can't stand video games. And one of my kids loves video games. And it's funny because I'll play video games and they just kill me. Now I'm fucking stop because I suck at the game and they just laugh and they think it's funny. But like, I'll sit there and I'll play with them and we bond.
• 41:54
  And that's really what I'm after and what I want is just that connection and that bond. And so I think when people feel like they're not good enough, they're not lovable where they are, the best thing you can do is love them where they are. Yeah, my stepfather, man, there was nothing I could do that was good. Yeah. Nothing. I was there to be their slave, man, and it just –
• 42:18
  You want to talk shame. I just didn't think I was worthy of anything. It took years. So what was your shame centered around?
• 42:26
  I have a ton of it. Like it just never feeling good enough. Like I always felt like I wasn't, I wasn't able to hit the mark. You know, I have very vivid memories when I was a kid, my dad got a new car. I'll never forget this. I don't remember how old I was. I was pretty young and he got this brand new Ford crown Victoria and it was like a big fucking deal. Like this brand new car. Right. And me and my brother woke up one Saturday morning. We were going to go out and we're going to wash it for him.
• 42:51
  Right? And so my mom got us the bucket and things and we washed this car and we were so proud. We were so fucking proud to wash this car. And you know, my mom goes in and gets my dad to come out and see this car and the whole thing. And the very first thing he says is, you forgot to do the wheels.
• 43:08
  And I have that etched in my brain, and I grew up that way. I grew up with, like, I'd go four for five in a baseball game, and my dad would be like, why'd you swing at that one pitch? Like, we won. I went four for five. If I go four for five, I'm in fucking Cooperstown. That's a Hall of Fame baseball player.
• 43:24
  And it was like, why did you swing at that one pitch? And that's really the programming that I grew up with is I was never good enough. Anything I said or did was never actually good enough. And I think that there's a really beautiful lesson in that for me in understanding that loving component and really appreciating that fact that people are going to show up how they show up. I'm not going to appease someone's lack of effort or their addiction or whatever, whatever. I'm going to always try and push and encourage.
• 43:54
  dude, like my kid's showing up and washing my car. I'm like, fuck yeah, man, that's badass. You find yourself every once in a while slipping up and falling into that same thing. Every day. No, no, no, dude, doing the same thing. Like I see that, I catch myself, you've seen me do it. I caught myself doing that to my daughter. It's been so ingrained in us that I'm like, hey, you forget. And I say it to her and I look at her. You want to talk about vulnerability? I say, I stop and I'm sorry.
• 44:20
  Yeah. Let me acknowledge what you did. Great. I love you unconditionally. And it heals a wound inside of me. Sure. But you just said that. I just, it's exactly what my stepfather did. And it was never good enough. But here you go. You got two fricking big successful dudes here saying we weren't good. We grew up not good enough, but that's what actually made us successful. So I wouldn't change that shit. I, I, I, I, people ask, I'm like, do you have regrets? I don't have any regrets. I wouldn't change anything. Cause one of my favorite quotes is,
• 44:49
  is by the late Thomas Monson. He was the president of the Mormon church. He said, you are who you are today because of the choices and decisions that you made yesterday. And so I look at every single decision, good, bad, all of these things that have led me to this singular moment. And that's what makes me the man that I am. And the man of humility and trying to be better and working to be better every day. But man, I'm hard as shit at myself. And I've gotten to a place where I'm like, you know what, man?
• 45:17
  You're doing a good fucking job. You're doing a great job. I had that epiphany about a year ago with my kids, with my daughter. And it was the first time in my oldest daughter is 21. And I had this moment where she was on a Mormon mission. And I had this really strong feeling like,
• 45:37
  dude, you're doing a good job. Cause I've always wondered, am I fucking these kids up? Am I good? Am I bad? Am I traumatizing them? Am I, you know, are they all going to freaking hate me? Whatever. And yeah, I've had that for 20 fucking years as a dad, like shit, I want to do it better. I don't want to be my dad. And I had that moment where it was like, dude, your daughter's a badass. She's a great fucking strong, powerful woman. Like, yeah, I didn't do that by myself, but for the first time I was like, okay, okay.
• 46:03
  Good job, dude. Like, you're doing okay. You're doing okay. And I felt really good about that. You're doing better than okay. How's your son, by the way? He got into, he broke his collarbone? He's a freaking defiant little turd. Yeah, and he's still out riding dirt bikes. And I got pissed at him the other day because I called him and I could hear the dirt bikes in the background. I'm like, bro, what the fuck are you doing? He literally just shattered his collarbone. It has nine screws and a huge metal plate. This was like a month ago. And he's already like back. I said, bro.
• 46:30
  If you don't get off the dirt bike, I'm going to break your other fucking collarbone. Get off the fucking dirt bike. Because he's not supposed to. Dad, I'm not riding. I'm not jumping. All my friends are jumping. I'm like, I know you and I know me and I know that you're fucking jumping. So get off the dirt bike. Oh, he is such a fucking he is such a dope kid. Sound familiar? He's 18 now. And we have such a rad relationship. In fact, I'm I've got a Harley and I'm buying another one because I've had this vision in this dream ever since I was, you know, became a dad of like going on Harley rides with my boys.
• 47:00
  And so I'm going to go buy a Harley here this next week. And he's going to ride mine and I'm going to ride this new one. And for his senior trip, because he graduates this year, he wants to go on a Harley ride. So we're going to go like up through Montana and Idaho and Wyoming and down PCH and do like a week long, just me and him Harley ride. Did you, by the way, did you get my voice?
• 47:18
  Now that I know that you're vulnerable and you're cool being vulnerable, did you get my voice for your birthday? I left, I sang to you about your birthday. I'm like, this dude's going to think I'm weird. It disappeared. So it must have freaked me out. I don't know. Because I left you and I saw it was your birthday. And I was like, I always sing to all my friends. Really? So I left you a voice. I would have responded to it if I'd seen it. So I might not have. Because you probably got a million of them. I totally would have. I promise you that. So remember next year, I'll sing to you. I left it last year. I go, this dude's going to think I'm so weird. I'll look for it.
• 47:46
  But I was like, you know what? I want him to know who I am. The digger. And I figured it was going to either bring us closer or you're going to go, he's fucking weird. He's fucking nuts. Stay the hell away from me. Trust me, I'm nuts. I love it, man. We're friends forever. So finally, what are your aspirations for the future, both personally and for the Lions Not Sheep movement? And how do you envision continuing to impact lives and inspiring change? Mm-hmm.
• 48:09
  You know, I really enjoy my life. I love where I am. I love what I'm doing. I really enjoy being a dad. I enjoy being a father and a husband. Personally, like I just I want to continue to grow. You know what I mean? I want to continue to learn. I want to continue to go deeper.
• 48:28
  That's one thing I've learned about myself. And I think most human beings, they step back, what do we really know? It's like the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know anything. And that's like, it's such a fucking cool dichotomy of just like having knowledge and imparting knowledge, but then having humility and being like, teach me more. You know what I mean? And so I've been down the road and done plant medicine and quite a few times and a lot of spiritual work and a lot of mental work and,
• 48:55
  I'm infatuated that I continue to learn and grow every single time. And then professionally, I want Lions Not Sheep to be a household name. I want it to be able to be the same mantra written on a bathroom mirror for somebody that's never seen me or heard me, but understands the same thing that I understood years ago when I wrote it on my mirror. My goal is that it's a household name and that very few people know who I am.
• 49:23
  You'll know that I built it right if that's how it ends up. Like I pass people a lot wearing the gear and my favorite. In fact, my wife and I were at a soccer game not too long ago and walked by a guy and he had a lion's knife she had on. I was like, hey, man, nice hat. And he's all, thanks. He just kind of nodded and kept walking. And she's like, he has no idea who you were. And I was like, that's actually what I want.
• 49:42
  Because I get recognized a lot and seen a lot, which is really fun and really cool. But I want to be able to help people where I was years ago take those three words and ultimately find their own lion, chart their own course. I like that answer, dude. That's awesome. It's exactly the heart of the life mantra. It's just, man.
• 50:03
  I can't believe we made it this far without asking about any of the daily habits and routines. So, and specifically your non-negotiable list. So run the listeners through the day in the life of Sean. Dude, I think, I've said this actually on a podcast not too long ago, I think that people should stop focusing on their morning routine and they should find a success routine.
• 50:21
  Because everybody and their dog's like, I got to get up at 2.30 in the morning and I see Jocko get up at 3 in the morning. And if I don't get up at 3 in the morning, I'm not going to be a success. Fuck that shit, dude. I know a lot of people that are very, very successful that don't take ice baths. I know a lot of fucking people that are very, very, very successful that don't read 600 books by 3 a.m., right? So I strongly advise people and share with people to figure out what moves the needle for them. Like what helps you become successful? I have my own personal experience.
• 50:51
  shit in the morning. I get up out of bed. I freaking give thanks. I pray, you know, and, and I make sure my workouts are done in the morning. I mean, I work out every single morning, no matter where I am, no matter what I'm doing, but that's because I need that. If I get into my day and I haven't worked out, it weighs on me and it pisses me off. And so then I have to freaking work out. So I got to work out in the morning. Right. You know, and, and, and I express gratitude and I write and I read because to me, I know that my life is going to be, my day is going to be,
• 51:18
  what it is. And some days are hectic, some days are chill, but I want to be able to be the best version of me. So I inject in my mind, my body, my soul, my spirit in the mornings, what nurtures me, you know what I'm saying? So that might be reading, that might be meditation. I don't meditate in the morning because I fall asleep. So for me, meditation is in the afternoon. I meditate pretty much every single day around two 30 because it's just what my body's become accustomed to. And I've been doing it for years. And so that's my success routine. So how long do you meditate for?
• 51:46
  15 minutes, 20 minutes. Sometimes quicker, sometimes longer. But typically 15, 20 minutes. So you work out, you pray, you journal, meditate. What else? Sex. Sex.
• 52:00
  I love sex in the morning. There's no better way to just kick off the day than having a good little friggin' sex session. Hey, I hear you. And your wife is gorgeous. I love the way she spoke to you. It's funny, because we're here where I met you. And so that's a segue to the next question is, is I met you here and you offered the three R's for creating content. Make it real, what's your truth, raw emotion, and relative.
• 52:27
  You have made no bones about the pretenders in the influencer space. Where do you see the personal development field headed with everyone being a coach these days, buying followers? And heck, I just learned that you can purchase downloads for podcasts. Where do you see all this stuff going? I don't pay attention to any of it. I could give two fucks. I really could. Like, I don't care what other people are doing. I don't care who buys shit, who doesn't buy shit, who buys downloads. I don't pay attention to any of it. You know what I mean? Me focusing on what you're doing doesn't help me.
• 52:57
  You know, if you're somebody that's in my space, that means I'm extracting some sort of value from you. And I want you in my space. If I don't want you in my space, I really don't give two shits about what you're doing. That might sound insensitive to people, but it's not. It's actually one of the best ways to do it because, you know, who do you align with?
• 53:14
  Who has the life you want to have? Who has the marriage you want to have? Who has the business that you want to have? The body that you want to have? Who's the father or the mother or whatever that you want to surround yourself with those people? Attend their events. Consume what they're doing. Read their books. I don't give a – there's so many people buying shit online. Like you watch a guy post and it will go from like 100 likes to 10,000 in three minutes. And it's like you only have 300,000 followers. It doesn't work like that. I don't care.
• 53:41
  I don't care. I just remove people from my space that, that are in alignment of where I am and the mission that I'm on. And so I really could give two fucks about that, but I will say that, you know, the day and age of technology, it's, it's also very easy for people to figure out who you really are. So who do I work with? Who do I follow people? Just follow them. And if they align with you, great. If you see somebody that's not faithful to their wife and you want to be faithful to your wife and don't fucking follow them. It doesn't matter how much money they have, how many followers they have.
• 54:09
  Just where is your alignment? Where are your morals? And I truly think if people started listening to their gut more, they'd be a lot more successful. Instead of trying to follow the cool kids club and be part of the cool, what does your gut say? If your gut says this person's a fucking asshole, then that person's probably a fucking asshole. It doesn't matter how cool or popular they are. You know what I'm saying? Because the truth of the matter is there's a lot of fucking assholes out there. So you know what I'm saying? It's really not that hard, but I definitely think people –
• 54:36
  People want to be validated. People want to be part of the cool kids club. They want to be part of the trends. They want to be part of what's, what's popping right now. And I don't subscribe to any of that. What I do is what's popping. What I do is what I do. Yeah. You definitely don't march to the beat of anybody's drum, but yourself. And I love that about you. It's same thing I do. So a couple more questions and we'll get out of here. You know what? We didn't talk about this. What's the number one thing that Sean Whalen does to love himself. Hmm.
• 55:06
  I do a lot of things that I want to do. You know, and I think that's really important. I think we're, we've, I've been programmed that, you know, I put myself after everything else. When I'm done with work or when I'm done here, when I'm done with that, then I'll get around to doing the shit that I want to do. And I do what I want to do first. And I think me filling my cup is what's allowed me to help so many people. Yeah.
• 55:32
  Dent the universe that I have be the present father. People see me with my kids all the time. That's not for show. It's like I'm with my kids all the time and I can do that because I've built a life and a lifestyle and a business that's allowed me to do that. Yeah. Self-care is not selfish, man. That was a very hard thing for me to learn. I still struggle. It's really simple. And anybody who wants to debate this with me, I'm going to give you one simple reality. It does not matter about your religion, your skin color, your economic status.
• 56:00
  If an airplane is going down, what is the very first thing they tell you to do? Put your mask on first. And the average guy is going to go, I'll put my kid's mask on first. I'll put my wife's mask on. I'll help everybody. No, you won't, motherfucker, because there's no air.
• 56:15
  And if you can't breathe, you can't help anybody. That's just the fact of life. This isn't your opinion or some, I'm going to be noble and share. I'm going to help the whole fucking world. No, there's no error. And the only way I can help my kids is if my mask is on and I can go put their mask on. So anybody who wants to debate that, there are some things in life that are black and white. That is one thing that is black and white. If you can't fucking breathe, you can't help anybody else. Your mask goes on first, period.
• 56:43
  I say that all the time, dude. It's unbelievable how much alike we are. We've talked about your wife's sex many times. And how did you, you did, you said you met her by sliding up in her DMs, but I see the most profound love from you too. So what's your best, what's Sean Whalen's love advice? Fuck man. I know I had to throw you this. I thought we were trying to wrap this shit up. I know. We got to wrap this up. No, I really, you know,
• 57:09
  I very much believe in love. I very much am learning more about love. One of the things that I'm really passionate about is understanding myself better.
• 57:20
  understanding my nuances better and choosing to love my partner. I think a lot of people get into a relationship and they forget that they chose this. They forget that it's a constant daily choice of I want to love this person. I want to learn more about this person. I want to go deeper with this person. And I think a lot of people have moved into this, this is ball and chain and fuck my wife. I got to ask my wife. And that's just such a negative thing.
• 57:47
  reality. Like I chose this fucking person. I made this decision. I'm sure I'm going to choose. And some days when she wants to kick me in the fucking face and tell me that I'm being a dick, which is kind of right now, I'm like, okay, cool word. I'm going to figure some shit out and I'm going to go deeper. And I expect she's going to go deeper. She's going to figure her shit out. And I'm going to figure my shit out, but choosing, man, you got to choose love as a choice.
• 58:09
  Love is without question a choice. And if you're going to make that choice, you have to continue to make that choice and you have to continue to invest in deepening that understanding, deepening that connection and making that choice over and over and over again.
• 58:24
  Was that good love advice? Microphone drop. My brother, love is a choice. Everything's a choice, but love is definitely a choice. And people don't realize that. There's a lot of people that just have negative. They're just so negative about their relationships. I'm like, why, bro? It's because they're not whole people in themselves. Jesus Christ. You need to. It's not you complete me. It's I'm complete. You're complete. We're going to come together. We're going to build something phenomenal. 100%. Two more questions. One's a doozy. Okay. Define happiness for me. Right now. Right here. This is Abby.
• 58:54
  I mean, if I'm thinking about tomorrow or yet, like I'm happy right now. We're talking good shit. We get to have these electronics that stream around the world and lights. And I got a fucking drink in my hand. And I'm like, dude, I'm happy. Like right here, right now is happiness. We didn't talk any politics today. We didn't talk any haters today. But I'm going to get you out of here with this one. Is all the criticism and spotlight worth it? Yes.
• 59:20
  Yes, I had this epiphany the other day because I had a client of mine hit me up because she did a post and got a ton of shit. And I asked her a simple question. It's funny because I know God put this question in my brain for me just as much as her. But I said to her, I said, if you knew that your post would reach 1,000 people and 999 of them would shit on you,
• 59:47
  but it would save one person's life. Would you still posted it? And then she got all emotional. And I realized that like, at the end of the day, if God tells me to speak, I gotta speak.
• 1:00:01
  God tells me to write, I got to write. And I believe in God very, very, very powerfully. And I know that at the end of the day that I don't care if 999 out of a thousand people shit on me, call me a fraud, call me a scam artist, call me whatever you want to call me. If that message reaches one person and changes their reality, then that's exactly what I was supposed to do.
• 1:00:24
  And so for me, that's how I live my life. That's how I look at it. And, you know, I encourage people to understand, like, if God puts, you know, if God puts ideas in here and passion in here, it's your duty to freaking live that. Like my greatest fear, I don't have very many fears, but my greatest fear is that I'm laying on my deathbed. I mean, number one is my kids. Something happened to my kids. I just have nightmares about that. My greatest fear is that I'm laying on my deathbed, and I know that God put ideas in here and passion in here.
• 1:00:51
  And I squandered it because I was worried about what people would think. I squandered the things that God told me to say, God told me to do, because I was worried about being judged by other people. I'm deathly afraid of that, which is why to me, when he says pull over and I pull over in the car and I write, or he says go, or he says film, or he says say, I don't even ask a question anymore. It's just fucking go. And that, you know, there's a lot of people that don't understand that. And that's totally fine. It's not why I'm doing it.
• 1:01:19
  But it's, I come back to that every time. If you knew that your one message would save one life, but 999 people would shit all over you, would you still do it?
• 1:01:29
  man that's deep i gotta tell you this has been fantastic i i i have so many more questions in another time we're gonna do another one we'll come on we'll run it back on your podcast we're going back again in here if there's anything i can do ever first of all i want to tell you i see you thank you and i love you appreciate it and if there's anything that i can ever do for you man i'm gonna text away i'll be right here in a second and there's gonna be a lot of stuff we're gonna do together because everything you just said uh thanks for tuning in guys i love you all
• 1:02:03
  Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.