Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Our kids have been robbed! A case for Boredom. | Ep. 44

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Our kids have been robbed! A case for Boredom. | Ep. 44 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:59
  Cheryl: Hello everybody.
• 1:01
  Cheryl: Welcome to the parenting podcast.
• 1:03
  Cheryl: How are y'all doing today?
• 1:05
  Ellen: Good.
• 1:06
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 1:07
  Ellen: As usual, trying to stay cool during the summer's gonna be a hundred and 3d
• 1:11
  Cheryl: day.
• 1:11
  Cheryl: So, but double digits, even eighties and rain are in our
• 1:17
  Ellen: for three days.
• 1:18
  Ellen: And then it goes back up rain.
• 1:21
  Ellen: We'll talk about it.
• 1:22
  Ellen: I think we'll all be standing in the rain.
• 1:23
  Ellen: It's 95
• 1:26
  Cheryl: enjoying the rain for sure.
• 1:27
  Cheryl: Well, I'm excited cuz I have kind of a new hobby.
• 1:30
  Cheryl: So living by myself, I look for fun.
• 1:34
  Cheryl: things to enjoy I don't enjoy.
• 1:37
  Cheryl: Electronic games Mm-hmm but I found something I really enjoy.
• 1:40
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 1:41
  Cheryl: The New York times crossword puzzle.
• 1:44
  Danae: Okay.
• 1:45
  Danae: Like, do you get the newspaper
• 1:46
  Cheryl: and you writing the paper?
• 1:48
  Cheryl: You know, I see that in my mind, because I was used to watch my father-in-law every day he would get out and physically do it.
• 1:54
  Cheryl: And now I have the booklets too.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: You have books?
• 1:56
  Cheryl: Yep.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: That's true.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: Yeah, no, this is the app.
• 1:58
  Cheryl: So it is electron modern era, but I do it on my iPad.
• 2:03
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm and It's been so much fun.
• 2:05
  Cheryl: Oh, because it's enough entertainment.
• 2:08
  Cheryl: Now I do the easier ones.
• 2:10
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm I can't do the weekend ones starting at Thursday.
• 2:13
  Cheryl: They get really hard.
• 2:14
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 2:14
  Danae: You'll get there.
• 2:15
  Danae: You'll get there.
• 2:17
  Cheryl: but I've actually moved up to Tuesdays.
• 2:19
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 2:21
  Cheryl: so, but it's just entertaining, but it also makes me think mm-hmm and you know, I like to learn mm-hmm so.
• 2:28
  Cheryl: I didn't know that.
• 2:29
  Cheryl: Oh, you know, mm-hmm and there are Obscure facts, but there's also a game to it.
• 2:33
  Cheryl: Did y'all know that crosswords aren't just knowing, like, what's another word for enable mm-hmm it's not that they're also kind of little tricky puzzles to it.
• 2:44
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:45
  Cheryl: You know that you have to realize, oh wait, this is a play on word or they're being tricky.
• 2:49
  Cheryl: Because they're themed, aren't they?
• 2:51
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm Yeah.
• 2:52
  Cheryl: Thought it was cheating.
• 2:53
  Cheryl: It like a test.
• 2:54
  Cheryl: If you look something up and when they talk about this, say, no, no, no.
• 2:57
  Cheryl: We want you to learn.
• 2:58
  Cheryl: We want you to get better.
• 3:00
  Cheryl: So looking up, what is, uh, the only native breed of geese in Japan or
• 3:08
  Danae: wait, what is it?
• 3:09
  Danae: What is it
• 3:11
  Cheryl: she's not telling?
• 3:12
  Cheryl: No, I don't remember.
• 3:15
  Cheryl: But just different things that's had a good way to use Google because I'm learning a lot of things from it.
• 3:21
  Cheryl: I didn't expect to learn that much.
• 3:22
  Cheryl: I thought it was like a.
• 3:25
  Cheryl: What you right now.
• 3:26
  Ellen: Okay.
• 3:27
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 3:27
  Ellen: Well, Google's the ultimate helper.
• 3:30
  Ellen: I mean, I think that's the most wonderful thing, you know, we all know the dangers of the internet, but boy, it is sure.
• 3:36
  Ellen: Nice.
• 3:36
  Ellen: You know, it's ended a fight for Mike and I many times because yes.
• 3:41
  Ellen: You know, cause,
• 3:42
  Danae: well that's just a Google let's, we'll
• 3:44
  Ellen: see what that was.
• 3:45
  Ellen: Mm-hmm I don't know if it makes it lazier, but it does simplify our lives when you can just Google something.
• 3:50
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:51
  Danae: Yeah.
• 3:51
  Danae: Okay.
• 3:51
  Danae: So my mind is stuck way back on the word test that Cheryl that Cheryl said, because my schoolwork.
• 3:59
  Danae: Bond my mind pretty much all the time.
• 4:01
  Danae: And.
• 4:03
  Danae: I found this so interesting.
• 4:05
  Danae: I had noticed that most of our quizzes are not only open book, so thankful, but they'll let us take them like three times now.
• 4:14
  Danae: Mm-hmm and I thought, oh, oh really?
• 4:16
  Danae: Why they're doing this is almost feels like cheating mm-hmm And then this last week in class, the professor said, the reason why they do that is because they have found that we learn best when we.
• 4:31
  Danae: Don't know an answer and we look up an answer.
• 4:35
  Danae: Yeah.
• 4:35
  Danae: Yeah.
• 4:35
  Danae: So like you were saying with the crossword puzzles.
• 4:38
  Danae: Oh yeah.
• 4:38
  Danae: You know, they're not just testing.
• 4:40
  Danae: Okay.
• 4:40
  Danae: Cram in these five chapters and now you have a test and then you pass or fail.
• 4:46
  Danae: Mm-hmm it's here's the test.
• 4:48
  Danae: You have 30 minutes.
• 4:50
  Danae: Take it.
• 4:51
  Danae: You know, and try to find the answers.
• 4:53
  Danae: And I still will miss answers because 30 minutes isn't long enough.
• 4:57
  Danae: Yeah.
• 4:58
  Danae: So then I can go and study some more and find the answers.
• 5:03
  Danae: And I like that now.
• 5:03
  Danae: I don't feel like I'm cheaty.
• 5:05
  Danae: Right.
• 5:05
  Danae: You're actually learning.
• 5:07
  Danae: I'm
• 5:07
  Cheryl: learning.
• 5:07
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:08
  Cheryl: Well, if you go back to what science says about.
• 5:10
  Cheryl: testing mm-hmm is everything's so much in our short term memory.
• 5:14
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm when we go to take a test CRA crime CRA right.
• 5:18
  Cheryl: And short term memory is short term mm-hmm and we remember things because of significance and see when you miss something that comes up in the significance and it may be.
• 5:30
  Cheryl: Everything else on the test, you may forget, but you remember the significant one, right?
• 5:34
  Cheryl: That's true.
• 5:34
  Cheryl: Cuz I'm so
• 5:34
  Danae: nervous.
• 5:34
  Danae: I won't be able to find the right answer.
• 5:39
  Cheryl: well, I want us to talk about something today and.
• 5:43
  Cheryl: Actually parents, I think it's something that our culture has robbed from us and certainly robbed from our children.
• 5:52
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm and I wanna make a case for taking it back So recently, you know, Dr.
• 5:59
  Cheryl: Kelly Stevens talking about create your own family identity.
• 6:02
  Cheryl: Oh yeah.
• 6:02
  Cheryl: That was really good.
• 6:03
  Cheryl: That was really good.
• 6:04
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 6:05
  Cheryl: So it's, I love the proactive that we are doing something we want in our family.
• 6:11
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm okay.
• 6:11
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:12
  Cheryl: So the gift I want us to take back, we've been robbed of.
• 6:17
  Cheryl: It's the gift of boredom yeah.
• 6:20
  Ellen: Of
• 6:20
  Danae: boredom.
• 6:22
  Danae: okay.
• 6:22
  Danae: I need to learn more about that.
• 6:25
  Danae: well,
• 6:25
  Ellen: Yes mm-hmm
• 6:26
  Cheryl: I mean, think about it.
• 6:27
  Cheryl: if We say bored.
• 6:28
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:29
  Cheryl: And if you took people's.
• 6:31
  Cheryl: Emotional reaction would y'all say it would be mostly positive or negative.
• 6:35
  Cheryl: Oh, negative seen us negative.
• 6:36
  Cheryl: Yeah, for sure.
• 6:37
  Cheryl: So the idea of mom I'm bored has such a negative connotation.
• 6:43
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:43
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm and so I want to present some about what science says and then let's brainstorm it together.
• 6:51
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 6:51
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 6:52
  Cheryl: Because.
• 6:52
  Cheryl: If I just sat here and read the science to your parents, you you'd be bored.
• 6:59
  Danae: God,
• 7:00
  Cheryl: the science, is amazing with what it, says okay.
• 7:04
  Cheryl: And that's what I'm saying.
• 7:05
  Cheryl: I believe culture has robbed us the big culprit we've been mentioning is electronic media.
• 7:11
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 7:12
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm okay.
• 7:12
  Cheryl: So it's kind of robbed our ability to be bored.
• 7:17
  Cheryl: Cuz what do you all do if you are standing and light the store mm-hmm or you're waiting on a and order, what do you do?
• 7:23
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 7:24
  Cheryl: Light your phone.
• 7:25
  Cheryl: You pull on your phone.
• 7:26
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 7:26
  Cheryl: And how many times when you're standing in line.
• 7:29
  Cheryl: Or you're anywhere in the library made them to bring books.
• 7:33
  Cheryl: What does everybody do?
• 7:34
  Cheryl: yeah.
• 7:34
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 7:35
  Cheryl: On your phone, they pull out their phone.
• 7:37
  Cheryl: Well, I'm
• 7:37
  Ellen: usually reading
• 7:39
  Cheryl: on my phone but we don't allow space we're over stimulated, we're filling all the gaps, right?
• 7:48
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 7:48
  Danae: Oh, yeah.
• 7:49
  Danae: I can't believe every place I go in there's music.
• 7:52
  Danae: And then sometimes there's competing music.
• 7:55
  Danae: Yeah.
• 7:55
  Danae: In two different parts of the store.
• 7:57
  Ellen: Yes.
• 7:58
  Ellen: Okay.
• 7:58
  Ellen: And the person in front of you, who's got their own music.
• 8:01
  Danae: I think, you know, on their phone, there is a lot of distractions all around is a lot of noise.
• 8:06
  Danae: See
• 8:07
  Cheryl: that's and think about restaurants and even coffee shops.
• 8:12
  Cheryl: They've got screens now, and you will have three or four different things on the screens.
• 8:18
  Cheryl: We're just being bombarded and
• 8:20
  Ellen: it's breaking news.
• 8:21
  Ellen: So you're having coffee with a friend and all of a sudden it's
• 8:24
  Christie: never, I important everything's breaking news, but exactly,
• 8:26
  Ellen: there we go.
• 8:27
  Ellen: There was a butterfly, you know,
• 8:30
  Cheryl: it's breaking news.
• 8:31
  Cheryl: There.
• 8:31
  Cheryl: You have made my argument that.
• 8:33
  Cheryl: Culture is robbing us of this gift of boredom.
• 8:36
  Cheryl: So I saw a little short thing on boredom and I thought, oh, that's interesting.
• 8:40
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm and I've read it and amazing the benefits of boredom.
• 8:46
  Cheryl: And then for example, see if y'all can even guess it said, guess where people nowadays are able to brainstorm.
• 8:58
  Cheryl: Best because it's one of the few quiet places that's forced on people these days in our culture.
• 9:06
  Danae: Hmm.
• 9:07
  Danae: I would think the shower
• 9:08
  Cheryl: that's exactly it.
• 9:09
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:10
  Cheryl: It said it's amazing.
• 9:11
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm, but it actually is legit.
• 9:13
  Cheryl: Yeah, because you can't really take things with you into the shower.
• 9:17
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm mm-hmm so here's what I want to do okay.
• 9:19
  Cheryl: So moms and dads.
• 9:21
  Cheryl: I want to make a case to say boredom is really important and it's the gift to give our kids.
• 9:28
  Cheryl: Let's talk about what the benefits might be.
• 9:30
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm and then actually give suggestions for, okay.
• 9:35
  Cheryl: You've convinced me, how do I start into this?
• 9:38
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm because one of the principles they have is you have to give boredom time enough for the benefits to kick in mm-hmm so maybe it would be.
• 9:50
  Cheryl: A little bit like taking an antibiotic or something mm-hmm that you want immediate relief, but my daughter just recently had a horrible, ruptured eardrum in all of this mm-hmm And so the doctor started her on the medication, but it took a couple of days to kick in mm-hmm and.
• 10:10
  Cheryl: By the nature of boredom.
• 10:11
  Cheryl: It may take a while for the benefits to kick in
• 10:15
  Ellen: mm-hmm it's a habit.
• 10:17
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 10:17
  Ellen: It's a habit you have to cultivate.
• 10:19
  Danae: I definitely have school in my mind again, and so I, I kind of know what you're talking about.
• 10:22
  Danae: It takes almost like you just kinda have to, I have to stew in the information and sit in my room.
• 10:28
  Danae: I have to go get some almonds and then I gotta go get some water and it just takes this process to get in my mind and that creative thinking mode.
• 10:38
  Ellen: Well, I know the, the same thing as an artist.
• 10:41
  Ellen: A lot of times I go into, um, my art studio and I put around, I don't just sit down and create something I've rearranged the papers or fix the paints or organize the pens.
• 10:54
  Ellen: But that's part of the process of getting that started before I just actually sit down and start being creative.
• 11:01
  Ellen: Mm-hmm and it's kind.
• 11:02
  Ellen: Boring, you know, to do those things, but there's something in that that triggers my creativity, cuz it pushes me forward.
• 11:10
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 11:10
  Ellen: While my brain and the wherever that creative part is in your brain is kind of formulating ideas.
• 11:16
  Ellen: Mm-hmm but not necessarily cognitively.
• 11:18
  Christie: Yeah.
• 11:18
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 11:18
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm you're making my argument for me.
• 11:21
  Cheryl: already.
• 11:21
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 11:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:22
  Cheryl: Art.
• 11:22
  Cheryl: Think about a.
• 11:24
  Cheryl: Parents, you too listeners.
• 11:26
  Cheryl: Think about a time where the kids are going.
• 11:28
  Cheryl: You're trying to get out the door or you're going somewhere and it's rushing around and everybody's making noise.
• 11:34
  Cheryl: And then you, you have to do something very important and you have to make a decision.
• 11:41
  Cheryl: What do you often do?
• 11:42
  Cheryl: See.
• 11:43
  Cheryl: Sh, wait, everybody quiet just a minute.
• 11:45
  Cheryl: Yeah, you need to, usually not that
• 11:46
  Ellen: nicely.
• 11:48
  Cheryl: but you go, wait, wait, wait.
• 11:49
  Cheryl: I have, I have to think.
• 11:50
  Cheryl: Yes, right?
• 11:51
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 11:52
  Cheryl: And you have to bring it all down.
• 11:54
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:55
  Cheryl: that's the gift of boredom.
• 11:56
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm is that what we want to do is create space mm-hmm for our children to have all the benefits that come from not being bombarded mm-hmm
• 12:10
  Christie: That makes sense.
• 12:10
  Danae: You know, for me, I, I think about that.
• 12:13
  Danae: I've created that space for myself in the mornings, uh, right now, even when it's so hot during the day in the morning, it's still been really nice and, and cool ish for summer in Oklahoma, but I just, I know I've done my different things I wanna do in the morning, read a devotional or read something and I just go sit out there with my coffee and I stare at my flowers and I watch the butterflies.
• 12:39
  Danae: And there's not a purpose for the time.
• 12:43
  Danae: And I honestly will set my timer, you know, and be like, here's my time to just sit mm-hmm mm-hmm and a lot of creativity.
• 12:50
  Danae: And thought's kinda like the shower you were talking about will come out.
• 12:53
  Danae: So it's creating
• 12:54
  Cheryl: space.
• 12:55
  Cheryl: That's exactly.
• 12:56
  Cheryl: That's what boredom does.
• 12:57
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm the view.
• 12:58
  Cheryl: I think a lot of people, like when I go, do you feel about boredom?
• 13:01
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm kind of feels like it's a time waster mm-hmm yeah.
• 13:06
  Cheryl: Instead, if you could think of it's the spacer between all the bombarding activities of everything else.
• 13:13
  Cheryl: right?
• 13:13
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:13
  Cheryl: yeah.
• 13:14
  Cheryl: In fact, one of the problems is, culturally, our children tend to have very highly structured lives.
• 13:21
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm yeah.
• 13:21
  Cheryl: So if you think in the history of the world, children didn't they had a lot of space what you're talking about.
• 13:28
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:28
  Cheryl: How we have to carve out space ourselves.
• 13:31
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm And so if we can have the picture that the idea of boredom being, giving our children the opportunity in between all the highly structured of mm-hmm of everything in their lives.
• 13:44
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 13:44
  Cheryl: To create mm-hmm and to think,
• 13:48
  Ellen: and to calm themselves.
• 13:49
  Ellen: Mm-hmm because you have to calm down enough.
• 13:51
  Ellen: Mm-hmm you have to stop all the rattling that's going on in your head from the externals mm-hmm to be creative and to think about stuff.
• 13:59
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 14:00
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 14:00
  Cheryl: So I kind of talked about from scientifically the benefits so we're not in the shower together.
• 14:07
  Cheryl: but let's brainstorm a little bit.
• 14:08
  Cheryl: What would y'all throw out.
• 14:10
  Cheryl: Things that you would say in your case for boredom or about the practical aspect of it.
• 14:17
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm mm-hmm.
• 14:18
  Christie: well, I was, I was thinking, I know early on in my parenting, it was really tempting for me to use the TV, to keep my kids happy and content while I got things done or, yeah.
• 14:29
  Christie: Yeah.
• 14:29
  Christie: And so, um, I came to a place of kind of wanting to wean off of that.
• 14:34
  Christie: And originally when I first.
• 14:36
  Christie: It's tried less TV in our lives to entertain my kids.
• 14:40
  Christie: It was really hard for all of us.
• 14:44
  Christie: And, um, but I just think about the things that eventually came to be with my kids open ended.
• 14:52
  Christie: Materials, you know, they would Legos or Fort building or playing in the dirt, those kinds of things.
• 14:58
  Christie: And they really started finding ways to entertain themselves rather than because they get lost telling them yeah, they get
• 15:06
  Danae: lost in what they're doing in a good way.
• 15:08
  Danae: Right.
• 15:08
  Danae: Yeah.
• 15:09
  Danae: Yeah.
• 15:09
  Danae: I really saw a lot of creativity.
• 15:12
  Danae: Uh, the first kind of image that pops into my mind is that my two youngest girls, I don't know, they were probably starting at six and eight, but then as even older, older, older, they would gather up all the acorns in the fall.
• 15:25
  Danae: Mm-hmm mm-hmm they would get out, they were old enough to do the hot glue guns.
• 15:28
  Danae: So six and eight, I think and they would get Popsicle sticks cuz I would just have an art.
• 15:34
  Danae: Section in our pantry and they knew this kind of the art supplies they could just get at any time.
• 15:40
  Danae: I, I keep like painting things up higher.
• 15:43
  Danae: Right.
• 15:43
  Danae: Right.
• 15:44
  Danae: and they would make just scores and scores.
• 15:49
  Danae: Acorn people and they would glue flowers and they would glue Leafs and they would just go outside and explore.
• 15:55
  Danae: And so I just saw their creativity
• 15:58
  Cheryl: blossom.
• 15:58
  Danae: Yes
• 15:59
  Cheryl: See, this is what they say what you're talking about because of the bad rap that boredom has.
• 16:05
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm you just talk about initiative creativity mm-hmm that, that the children are, They can entertain themselves
• 16:11
  Danae: Yes
• 16:12
  Cheryl: but it also builds confidence.
• 16:14
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm and independence that they're figuring out what they're gonna do.
• 16:17
  Cheryl: They are controlling their world, not something outside of them controlling.
• 16:23
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:23
  Cheryl: Something's not structuring and telling them what to do.
• 16:26
  Cheryl: Like even.
• 16:27
  Cheryl: A video game.
• 16:28
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:28
  Cheryl: It's that's Notre creative and look at the initiative that they have to come up with when we gift them with the space of boredom mm-hmm and
• 16:36
  Ellen: there's no right or wrong in the acorn people.
• 16:39
  Danae: No, they came up with it all over
• 16:40
  Ellen: own.
• 16:40
  Ellen: However, they see it in their head Uhhuh.
• 16:42
  Ellen: That's right.
• 16:43
  Ellen: You know, it's not, this is how you do it.
• 16:46
  Ellen: Just very structured.
• 16:47
  Ellen: Like other things tend to
• 16:48
  Christie: be, well, it's like when you read a book and then you see the movie and you see the movie and you're like, wait, they got that
• 16:53
  Cheryl: all
• 16:54
  Danae: That was in my head at all.
• 16:55
  Danae: She didn't look
• 16:56
  Ellen: like that.
• 16:57
  Ellen: And the monster
• 16:58
  Danae: did not look like that.
• 16:59
  Danae: And I am thinking like, with the confidence, I know this is it's something back to the hot glue guns.
• 17:04
  Danae: Mm-hmm you know, but I did also try to let them in these.
• 17:08
  Danae: Spaces that I helped them, you know, create to take risks.
• 17:12
  Danae: make some mistakes right.
• 17:14
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:14
  Cheryl: You know, Christie, I loved your example because.
• 17:19
  Cheryl: That's the thing.
• 17:20
  Cheryl: It's the same with us, like when you've kept yourself too busy or mm-hmm how we have to come down off of something.
• 17:27
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm Yeah.
• 17:27
  Cheryl: You use the word entertained.
• 17:29
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:29
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm actually if you're not really evaluating it, right.
• 17:33
  Cheryl: It looks like you're bored when you're not being entertained.
• 17:36
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm but actually being entertained is really boring.
• 17:39
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 17:40
  Cheryl: And, and I love the fact you're talking about it took a while for both of y'all you and the children to develop the skill mm-hmm to give the space to be bored so that you could learn the other activities.
• 17:52
  Cheryl: Well,
• 17:52
  Ellen: there's deep places.
• 17:54
  Ellen: That need to be cultivated.
• 17:56
  Ellen: And while we're entertaining ourselves, we're robbing our inner person of exploring those deep places.
• 18:03
  Ellen: And I don't mean it like a heavy thing.
• 18:06
  Ellen: Just that creativity, you have to go deep to be creative.
• 18:09
  Ellen: Mm-hmm mm-hmm you know, you have to work at it.
• 18:11
  Ellen: that's why a little kid, if you don't kind of help them in the beginning to understand what we're doing, they'd I don't know what to do.
• 18:16
  Ellen: I don't know what to do.
• 18:17
  Ellen: Right.
• 18:17
  Ellen: Mm-hmm you know, so it's something we have to cultivate and you have to remove the entertainment because that's superficial.
• 18:23
  Ellen: Mm-hmm, it, it keeps us happy for a few minutes or an hour, and then we go way empty.
• 18:30
  Ellen: But when we use boredom and we fill it with creativity and really good things, we come out of it, more content.
• 18:38
  Ellen: More relaxed.
• 18:39
  Ellen: Mm-hmm feeling better about the
• 18:41
  Danae: world.
• 18:42
  Christie: The entertainment robs us of relationships too, because like your girls, acorn people, they were doing that together.
• 18:49
  Christie: Yes.
• 18:49
  Christie: And we have to kind of get to know ourselves when we're not being entertained and then we get to work with
• 18:54
  Cheryl: other people.
• 18:55
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm yes.
• 18:56
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:56
  Cheryl: And I think it may be a good analogy would be healthy food versus quick, fast, easy stuff.
• 19:02
  Cheryl: Oh yeah, that's good.
• 19:03
  Cheryl: So it's a whole lot easier to just eat a Twinki mm-hmm But the, but making a salad and healthier foods, mm-hmm, the benefits are gonna continue.
• 19:11
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 19:12
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm, it's just longer and slower and you have to practice.
• 19:14
  Cheryl: And I think we
• 19:15
  Danae: all, you know, we all run through the Chick-fil-A or the drive through when we need that convenience.
• 19:22
  Danae: Right.
• 19:23
  Danae: Yeah.
• 19:23
  Danae: You know, so we, we always.
• 19:25
  Danae: Don't have time as busy parents to make the healthy meal every night.
• 19:30
  Danae: But if you know that your, your staples are the healthy food mm-hmm and then it's okay.
• 19:36
  Danae: Let's to be entertained, but you
• 19:37
  Ellen: wanna teach your children how to make the good salad.
• 19:40
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 19:40
  Ellen: Right.
• 19:40
  Ellen: So that, that they know that that's the go to, and this is the exception and it's the same with boredom.
• 19:46
  Ellen: What we're trying to do is train our children to cultivate outlets for themselves.
• 19:51
  Ellen: Mm-hmm that help them be.
• 19:54
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 19:54
  Ellen: And that's, you know, they, they have to think of things
• 19:57
  Cheryl: to do.
• 19:58
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 19:58
  Cheryl: again, going back to science, when we talk about being entertained versus entertaining yourself, and one of the things they say, if a child and probably adults, but this was on children.
• 20:11
  Cheryl: If a child sees a digital or cartoon, a visual representation of a story or something.
• 20:20
  Cheryl: Then when they play, they will copy it.
• 20:23
  Cheryl: Whereas if they hear it mm-hmm or read it or think of it in themselves, actually they will do creatively mm-hmm so yeah, the creativity comes.
• 20:34
  Cheryl: It's a choice.
• 20:35
  Cheryl: Do I want my child to create, or do I want them to copy?
• 20:38
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:39
  Cheryl: and so it's just an amazing thing.
• 20:41
  Cheryl: And then boredom's kind of mixed in there.
• 20:43
  Danae: Cheryl.
• 20:44
  Danae: Do you remember how many hours days?
• 20:48
  Danae: And I don't even know how many years all of our children together, or several of them were wolves.
• 20:54
  Danae: oh man.
• 20:55
  Danae: They were wolves all the time with their names.
• 21:00
  Danae: And I just remember thinking why wolves They just had
• 21:05
  Ellen: the best
• 21:06
  Cheryl: time.
• 21:07
  Cheryl: And it's really interesting because I remember as they began to age out mm-hmm of that kind of creativity of imagination.
• 21:14
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm Uh, Jonathan said, mom, it was like, it was really happening.
• 21:20
  Cheryl: Like we were really in it.
• 21:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:22
  Cheryl: And he said, I'm getting too old now, because now I'm thinking about doing it rather than living it.
• 21:29
  Cheryl: Oh, that, yeah.
• 21:29
  Ellen: It's kind of sad ending the
• 21:31
  Cheryl: spontaneous sense of, yeah.
• 21:33
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 21:33
  Cheryl: Let me give you some rapid fire benefits of the gift of boredom
• 21:37
  Danae: new
• 21:37
  Cheryl: activities.
• 21:39
  Cheryl: Frustration tolerance.
• 21:40
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm initiative entertaining themselves.
• 21:43
  Cheryl: Build perseverance, increase confidence, independence.
• 21:47
  Ellen: And
• 21:48
  Cheryl: it's alleviating stress.
• 21:49
  Cheryl: They learn to embrace failure.
• 21:51
  Cheryl: The ability to think, develop creativity They actually get to know themselves better.
• 21:56
  Cheryl: Ooh, okay.
• 21:57
  Cheryl: Like that actually the whole family benefits, because they're not gonna be complaining And it's amazing because self entertain, creative children don't bug their parents as much.
• 22:09
  Cheryl: Right.
• 22:10
  Cheryl: You know, there are all kinds of benefits.
• 22:12
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm yeah.
• 22:12
  Cheryl: And I just see it as a win, win, win.
• 22:16
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:16
  Cheryl: I can't see a negative in this,.
• 22:18
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm,
• 22:18
  Danae: Right.
• 22:19
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 22:19
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 22:20
  Ellen: Good.
• 22:21
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 22:22
  Cheryl: So I'm thinking of the parent that really says, okay, I want to begin to create a space.
• 22:28
  Cheryl: I want to create.
• 22:30
  Cheryl: A family designed for allowing for boredom for all these benefits.
• 22:36
  Cheryl: So we've already said a few things, let's popcorn, some ideas that you might suggest, what did you do or some ideas, you know, that they could begin step by step?
• 22:48
  Cheryl: Like what you talked about, uh, Christie to get into this.
• 22:51
  Christie: Well, I think the first thing I would say.
• 22:54
  Christie: Expect it to be hard at first.
• 22:55
  Christie: Mm.
• 22:56
  Christie: Okay.
• 22:56
  Christie: Why?
• 22:56
  Christie: Because you're gonna get push back from your kids.
• 22:58
  Christie: Mm-hmm because they're used to being entertained.
• 23:01
  Christie: and when that happens, don't just say, oh, well I know my kids wouldn't do
• 23:04
  Danae: this.
• 23:05
  Danae: Oh, that's good.
• 23:06
  Danae: Yeah.
• 23:06
  Danae: I know you still may have pushback, but I've always felt like it's worked better.
• 23:12
  Danae: If I'm making a change that I set my children down and tell them, Hey, we're gonna do something new and different and get them on board.
• 23:23
  Danae: And they're understanding cuz I have made.
• 23:26
  Danae: Stake or I've decided I am now passionate about something and our family is going to broccoli every single day.
• 23:33
  Danae: Everyone's gonna love it.
• 23:35
  Danae: Right.
• 23:35
  Danae: You know, they're like, and then they start complaining and then I get upset and discouraged and I stop serving broccoli.
• 23:41
  Danae: yeah.
• 23:42
  Ellen: Well, and I think that's maybe part of a point that Dr.
• 23:44
  Ellen: Stevens has made that, you know, you wanna lead with the positive mm-hmm those are my words.
• 23:50
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 23:50
  Ellen: You know, rather than say, we're gonna make you put down the television, put down your PA pads and all that kind of stuff.
• 23:56
  Ellen: Mm-hmm it's, let's go.
• 23:58
  Ellen: And we're gonna try this really fun thing right now.
• 24:00
  Danae: Right.
• 24:00
  Danae: You're adding something positive in and
• 24:02
  Ellen: you go into it in the positive
• 24:04
  Danae: and start small, I think start with a short amount of time.
• 24:09
  Danae: That, that would be big advice.
• 24:10
  Danae: Mm-hmm you know, especially
• 24:11
  Ellen: if you haven't done it.
• 24:12
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 24:12
  Ellen: Yourself, if you're not used to doing those kind of things,
• 24:15
  Cheryl: I was, I was gonna say, what we're talking about is we, as the parents, mm-hmm, have to discipline ourselves as well.
• 24:22
  Danae: Right.
• 24:23
  Danae: Yeah.
• 24:23
  Ellen: I just be saying, let's go have some fun that's there's art supplies
• 24:27
  Danae: on the kitchen table.
• 24:28
  Danae: Okay.
• 24:28
  Danae: Or, you know how outside, maybe giving them some options.
• 24:31
  Danae: You can go outside.
• 24:32
  Danae: Here's some Art supplies, art supplies.
• 24:35
  Danae: What else?
• 24:35
  Danae: What else could we have out?
• 24:37
  Danae: Yeah.
• 24:37
  Christie: So at our house, we have a bucket of, we call'em plank blocks, Uhhuh, and they were, but, well, they're just pieces of wood, like they're rec rectangles they're.
• 24:48
  Christie: So they're about the size.
• 24:50
  Christie: How would you describe
• 24:51
  Danae: that?
• 24:51
  Danae: They're about that big, like a domino
• 24:53
  Christie: almost they're about the size of like two dominoes stuck end to end.
• 24:56
  Christie: Okay.
• 24:56
  Christie: And they're just wooden planks.
• 24:58
  Christie: Mm-hmm and you would be shocked at how many hours my kids have sat playing with those wooden planks.
• 25:05
  Christie: And so, but it takes time for them to sit in.
• 25:08
  Christie: Be like, you're giving me a bowl of wooden, like play with, but eventually
• 25:14
  Danae: I remember my son could play with anything.
• 25:17
  Danae: I would see him.
• 25:19
  Danae: Yeah.
• 25:19
  Danae: He loved to play cars and things mm-hmm but he would take pennies.
• 25:23
  Danae: And make them into vehicles.
• 25:25
  Danae: He would take just really any material and all of a sudden be looking down, he'd have them all stacked up mm-hmm and they're doing races and things.
• 25:33
  Danae: Mm-hmm probably cuz he was kind of bored.
• 25:35
  Cheryl: Right?
• 25:36
  Cheryl: wonderful.
• 25:38
  Cheryl: I was gonna
• 25:38
  Ellen: say my grandkids go to the side of our house where we have.
• 25:42
  Ellen: Like a rock garden.
• 25:43
  Ellen: So there all sorts of big, little, small and gravel, they have more fun over there looking for worms, Uhhuh and collecting rocks mm-hmm which always have to be returned at the end of the day.
• 25:53
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 25:53
  Ellen: And let the worms go
• 25:55
  Cheryl: but do you see it's taken time and I think it could be a lot of people.
• 26:02
  Cheryl: In today's culture and at this time think, oh, that's just something in the past.
• 26:07
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 26:07
  Cheryl: That children used to be like that mm-hmm but we can bring it up.
• 26:12
  Cheryl: This can become our culture and our family for all these benefits.
• 26:16
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:17
  Cheryl: But we've got to slow down.
• 26:19
  Cheryl: It has to be.intentionality And.
• 26:22
  Cheryl: Parents, I would just encourage you create the space for boredom because of all this.
• 26:28
  Ellen: And, and, you know, just kind of, if you haven't done it before we all live in this era where everything's fingertips on the computer.
• 26:36
  Ellen: Pinterest is a wonderful place to find ideas.
• 26:41
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 26:41
  Ellen: To.
• 26:42
  Ellen: Arts with your children.
• 26:44
  Ellen: Mm-hmm you know, from very simple little paper things to complicated things.
• 26:47
  Ellen: Mm-hmm
• 26:48
  Danae: And Alan, I've heard you talk about that.
• 26:50
  Danae: Crafts that you like to do are more open ended.
• 26:53
  Danae: Mm-hmm it's not something like here's a picture of something and you need to make it exactly like the picture.
• 26:59
  Ellen: Yes.
• 27:00
  Ellen: And that, I think that's really important is that you just put the supplies on the table and.
• 27:06
  Cheryl: You've got raw materials.
• 27:07
  Ellen: Yes If your children are used to you doing that, then that's all you have to do is your, your art supplies are there.
• 27:12
  Ellen: Mm-hmm oh, that's but, and that's kind of just like the diving board.
• 27:16
  Christie: Mm-hmm yes.
• 27:17
  Christie: They're learning some techniques to apply during that open
• 27:19
  Danae: ended time.
• 27:20
  Ellen: Mm-hmm Yeah.
• 27:21
  Cheryl: But when we talk about raw materials, we are not just talking about art things.
• 27:25
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 27:26
  Cheryl: You know, just the creativity and a lot of people see it in very young children.
• 27:31
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm when they're pretending to fix food and that sort of thing.
• 27:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm mm-hmm I just say let's continue it and becomes more important.
• 27:39
  Cheryl: One of the things is to allow a little bit of messiness, cuz that's some of it is parents might say, oh, this gets messy Closed structure keeps it tidy, but then you have the chance of teaching your children how to clean up.
• 27:54
  Cheryl: So it, right.
• 27:55
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 27:55
  Cheryl: It is a commitment.
• 27:56
  Ellen: And the trade off is while they've taken your sofa apart and built a Fort,
• 28:01
  Christie: you might win the remote.
• 28:02
  Danae: Yeah, that's really good.
• 28:05
  Danae: Yeah.
• 28:05
  Danae: Yeah, that is
• 28:06
  Ellen: true.
• 28:07
  Ellen: But then you might have an hour where they're so happy.
• 28:10
  Ellen: Mm-hmm they're in one room under all the pillows of the sheet.
• 28:13
  Ellen: I remember those day things and you can kind of do a few things you needed to get
• 28:18
  Cheryl: done.
• 28:18
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 28:18
  Cheryl: But Ellen, I would make the argument that, that becomes a lifestyle, right?
• 28:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:22
  Cheryl: Because you have a family that entertains themself and does things everybody's freed up.
• 28:28
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 28:28
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:29
  Cheryl: And you have more content children.
• 28:31
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm mm-hmm and you've given them that gift of creativity the gift of boredom yeah.
• 28:37
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm all of these benefits.
• 28:39
  Danae: I love that.
• 28:40
  Danae: You know, I am thinking back to the, the messy, you know, and I think you.
• 28:46
  Danae: Some of the, some of the parents listing may think, oh, the mess, the mess.
• 28:50
  Danae: I already have so much to do.
• 28:52
  Danae: You know, we can continue to have boundaries.
• 28:55
  Danae: Yes.
• 28:55
  Danae: Mm-hmm within our homes.
• 28:57
  Danae: I love the word that you were using.
• 28:59
  Danae: Cheryl of create a space mm-hmm right.
• 29:02
  Danae: So it's maybe our art supplies are gonna be on this table.
• 29:05
  Danae: The Fort building can happen in this room.
• 29:08
  Danae: only, yeah, mm-hmm, you know, in the yard you can turn on the water hose and make med pies and acorn people, but only in this space.
• 29:17
  Danae: And so then we're teaching not only the boredom and the creativity, we're also teaching boundaries.
• 29:23
  Danae: Right.
• 29:23
  Danae: Which is important.
• 29:24
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 29:25
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 29:26
  Ellen: Good.
• 29:26
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 29:27
  Cheryl: Well, I haven't been bored listening to you all listeners.
• 29:31
  Cheryl: I hope you haven't, but we're out of time.
• 29:33
  Cheryl: So thank you all again.
• 29:35
  Cheryl: This was really great listeners.
• 29:37
  Cheryl: We would love to hear your questions, or if you start kind of begin to make this space, mm-hmm in your family for boredom.
• 29:46
  Cheryl: Please let us hear from you.
• 29:47
  Cheryl: We'd love to get your feedback.
• 29:49
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm okay.
• 29:50
  Cheryl: So until next time though, remember parents hang in there, keep loving.
• 29:57
  Cheryl: Keep persevering because it's worth it.