Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Ryan Clark Talks 'The Pivot' Podcast, Netflix Partnership, Getting Fired From ESPN, Football Season + More

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INTERVIEW: Ryan Clark Talks 'The Pivot' Podcast, Netflix Partnership, Getting Fired From ESPN, Football Season + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We all finished or y'all done?
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Morning everybody, it's DJ Envy, Just Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha Guy.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: We are The Breakfast Club. We got a special guest
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: in the building.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, indeed. We got the brother, Ryan Clark.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: Welcome, brother.
• 0:18
  Speaker 4: What's up, man?
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: How you doing?
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: How you feeling?
• 0:19
  Speaker 4: Good morning, Ryan.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I'm doing well, doing well. I know you got places
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: to be, so we got to get to it.
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: You said something that fascinated me. Jesus Christ. No, because
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: we got to talk.
• 0:28
  Speaker 5: You said that if ESPN hadn't fired you, you probably
• 0:32
  Speaker 5: would have never taken the step that you took, which
• 0:34
  Speaker 5: is to, you know.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Just go, I guess, all in on the pivot.
• 0:38
  Speaker 5: Why did somebody else have to stop believing in your
• 0:41
  Speaker 5: value before you were willing to bet on yourself?
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Especially with a pot called the pivot.
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is it was the
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: job I wanted. I interned at ESPN when I was playing.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: And so to me, watching Stuart Scott, seeing Tom Jackson,
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: that was the job. And if you could get to
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: Monday Night Football, that's iconic. And to be inside those
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: stadiums and be able to talk to players, talk to coaches,
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: talk to GMs, like, I earned that, right? I worked
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: for that. And that was the goal I set. And
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: so there was a comfort in that. Like, no matter what,
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: and I say this all the time, I just say this,
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: you know, Stuart Scott was like the dude that made
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: me want to do TV because he said we can
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: do it and be us and be successful, right? And
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: Stuart Scott, man, got cancer and passed. You still walk
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: past every restaurant, though, and ESPN's on. And so that
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: was going to stand. So there was a comfort in it, right?
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: There was a comfort in you get to do what
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: you love to do. You get paid a lot of
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: money to do it at a place that is going
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: to be an entity in this business forever. And so
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: I think it was that level of comfort, being content
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: in what I was doing that said, okay, you don't
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: have to go start this other thing because I did
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: have both, Charlemagne.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: So for people that don't know what exactly happened, if
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: they didn't hear your podcast, and if you don't know,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: he's a 13-year NFL safety play for my team, the Giants.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: We look good, right? We bust some cowgirls' ass. But anyway,
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: another story, another time.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Redskins, Commanders, Steelers, Super Bowl champion. So what happened? Because
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: people loved you on TV. The ratings were great. And
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: what happened?
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: The right people didn't love me. And you know that.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: You said the white people didn't love you?
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: I said the right.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, you said right. Yeah.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: He's hard of hearing sometimes. He's hard of hearing sometimes.
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: I already know what's going on. And I ain't any trippers.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: I ain't no trippers.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: But- It taught me a lesson, right? It taught me
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: a lesson that you can't get, because you believe it's
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: one thing, and even the perception of you might be
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: one thing, if you're not the decision maker, you can't
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: get comfortable. To me, I'm coming from football. When you
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: play football, if that film hot, you're going to play, right?
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: If that film hot, you're going to get contracts because
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: that's the way it works. That's not how TV works.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: That's not how the.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Corporate world works.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: Right. And I had to learn that. I struggled... getting
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: out of football. A lot of people talk about struggling,
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: not having a passion. I struggled not being able to
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: tell people what I felt. You see what I'm saying?
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: Because in football, because most of us are alphas and
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: most of us come from a place of direct accountability,
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: I could tell you when I got a problem with you.
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: Football is like growing up where we grew up in
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: our community. You might throw hands with your best friend,
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: but y'all going to dab off afterwards. And if somebody
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: else comes to the crib, they got an issue with
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: both of us. That wasn't that's not how corporate works.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: If you got the right relationships, if the right people
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: like you, if you have the right executive in your corner,
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: then you can get a show or you can have
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: a setback and they'll make sure you're in the right position.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: I didn't necessarily have those relationships. And on top of that,
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: if you see the way linear TV is going, when
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: you cut it on, if you look at, oh, this
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: person's there, this person's there or this person has a
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: new show. some of the things that I talked about
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: and some of the things that I champion aren't in
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: line with those. And I believe that not having that connection, too,
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: with decision makers is a big reason why I was
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: out as well.
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: You know, ESPN called it a layoff, but you were
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: adamant about, no, I was fired. Why is that distinction
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: so important?
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: Because everybody that got laid off got told on Tuesday.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: Only one person got told on Monday on set.
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: Me.
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: That's the distinction. If it was... if it was fair,
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: if it was right, if it was because of the
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: reasons everyone else was laid off, right? We merged two companies,
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: or ESPN merged with NFL Network. So they were bringing
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: in outside people, whether it was talent, behind the scenes,
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: and there had to be budget cuts, right? Whether it
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: was Cam Newton, who's in, you know, an NFL MVP,
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: Carl Ravitch, who had been there 33 years, Charles Davis,
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: who was respected in this business, or the people behind
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: the scenes, you didn't hear about any of them on Monday, right?
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: Only one person got let go on Monday. Only one
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: person was let go on air. Only one person's firing
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: or layoff was leaked to a far-right conservative sports site. Yeah,
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: it got leaked to OutKick, right? Yeah, me. So when
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: all those things line up, it lets you know that
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: everything's not on the up and up, but it was
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: also purposeful. It was also meant, in my opinion, to humiliate, right?
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: And in leaking it to OutKick, you now know if
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: anybody is going to curry favor for you in this decision,
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: it's going to be them because it's me.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: The conservatives rejoice.
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: In truth, a couple of days later, I think it
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: was Sophie Cunningham, that's when she came out and she
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: was talking about the trans women playing in the league.
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: Someone from OutKick, their first tweet was, what a great
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: rebrand week for ESPN. Ryan Clark is let go. And
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: now Sophie Cunningham is leading news. So it's letting you
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: know what they think. And in my opinion, if you're
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: going to give them the story, not bro, it's so
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: many reputable sports publications, whether it's, you know, sports illustrated,
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: the New York times, the athletic, if this is going
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: to be as big a news as it turned out
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: to be, why not give it to them? Because you
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: knew who you were giving it to. You knew the
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: small amount of people within that building that knew it.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: And then, you know, the humiliation that you at least
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: purposed it to come along with my, you know, me
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: being laid off.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Did they take care of you or was it one
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: of those things they let you go and now you're
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: going back and forth now?
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: Meaning you have a family, you have kids, you gave
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: a lot of years.
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: Contractually, it's already done.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: So contractually, there's reasons why I can't be on a network. Right.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: Because as the contract goes, if you are laid off,
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: you get to be paid throughout the end of your contract,
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: which for me is the last day of February.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: So until that point, you know, I still have an
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: opportunity to make money from them. And I think that's
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: another reason, Charlamagne, though, when you're saying about betting on yourself,
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: I can't sit up here like puff my chest out like, oh,
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: I took. But I'm also doing this. while not putting
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: my family in a worse position by having to say, oh,
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: I'm throwing all this money into this thing or I'm
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: betting on this thing alone while I'm not being paid.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: So I'm kind of getting to do both with a
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: little bit of an umbrella. And that's why it was
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: imperative that in six weeks we figured out a way
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: to get this off the ground and have it launch
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: on Monday.
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: I do think a lot of people don't really know
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: that you got fired while you were on... air because
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: it was about this is what I was told it
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: was about to get leaked to OutKick OutKick was about
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: to put it out run the story and so somebody
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: came to you like I don't know like an hour
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: prior to say hey Ryan this is about to come
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: out like that's intentional to tell you that while you're on.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: Air so I don't I'm gonna be honest right like
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: there are some really good people in that building and
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: some people man that I'm talking about bro that went
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: to bat for me in so many different situations when
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: other people in high office or executives weren't trying to
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: understand who I am and why I think or move
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: or believe what I move, the way I move. And
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: so the person who called me is like, he was
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: my immediate boss, you know, and we had been through it, man.
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: He was the person that gave me my internship, the
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: dude I talked to, to get there. And so we're on,
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: we're doing the show and I get a text message
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: from our show runner and like, The way he texted me,
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: I could tell he didn't know. He was like, RC, man. Oh, boy,
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: I said hit him up next break. You don't call
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: people on commercial break during a show. Right? You talk
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: to them afterwards. And I had heard enough rumblings about
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: things that I was like, this can't be good.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: And so we get on the phone. And he's like, man,
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: this is a hard call. But, you know, they're going
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: to let you go. there, you there too. Right? So
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: it's already in the tone and the words used that, okay,
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: this ain't really your call. And he said, you know, Outkick,
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: the story was leaked to Outkick. Outkick has the story.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: They're going to run with it. And I don't want
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: that to happen to you while you're on air. You know,
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: and he was really, at least in my opinion, he
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: did me a solid. Yeah, absolutely. Right? Because I do...
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: feel like it was about that humiliation. and he wanted
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: to save me from that.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: It was already going to be enough written. It was
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: already going to be enough laughs, enough jokes that I
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: worked that day anyway. So I appreciated him. And, and
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: I told him this, if anybody was going to call me,
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: I wanted it to be the person that for the
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: last 10 years, or 12 years has stood up for me.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: I didn't want it to be one of those people
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: that was laughing behind my back anyway. And so for
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: like that piece of it wasn't, like it just kind
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: of was what it was. It just added to the
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: rest of it. But that part of it wasn't that bad.
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: Did Ryan Clark contribute to Ryan Clark getting fired?
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: I thought about it a lot. Okay.
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: What I mean by that is were there moments when
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: you confused being authentic with believing you could say or
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: do anything because you thought you was that valuable?
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: No.
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: Never.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: Never. I think you weigh it every time, right? I
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: think every conversation you have, you legitimately have to think
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: to yourself, what could be the consequences of this? In,
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: you know, Colin Kaepernick's all over, you know, this week
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: he released his book. In 2016, I was doing Mike
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: and Mike. And the week before that, Mike Greenberg wore,
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: I forget the quarterback's name. I think his name was
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: maybe Trevor Simeon or something. He went to Northwestern and
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: he played for Denver and he was having like a
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: good year. So Mike, so Greeny wore his jersey on air. Well,
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: the next week I wore Colin Kaepernick jersey on it. Right.
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: And that was during the time he was protesting. I
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: also believe there needed to be a change in this
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: country in police brutality directed toward people of color. And
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: so I agreed with him. And, you know, I get
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: off of the set that day and I get a
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: call and they're like, you can't do that. And I
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: was like, I get it. I understand. He's like, you know,
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: I said, but Greeny wore a jersey the week before.
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: And they said, yeah, but you know what wearing that
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: jersey signifies. I said, exactly, which is why I wore it.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: Before I did that, I talked to the people in
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: my house, though.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: I said, now there could be a consequence from this.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: You know, so my wife, like there could be. fall
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: out from this if I do this? Are you comfortable
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: with those consequences? And I've probably gotten further away from
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: asking that question. And now you kind of just ask yourself.
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: But as more conversation started to be had, you know,
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: I said this on our show, Stephen A, man, took
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: me to lunch before last season, sat me down. And
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: he was like, RC, you need to go have some
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: meetings with certain people. You know, and he told me,
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: you know, you said, this thing in support of Andrew
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: Reese and that rough, Andrew Reese. And that ruffled a
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: lot of fellas feathers. So you said this and that,
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: you know, you don't have, you know, not everybody's your
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: fan there. And so I tried to then go and
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: build those relationships and, and, and share how I thought
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: about things, but it was kind of already too late,
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: but definitely right. You, you, you sit around and you go,
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: what could I have done differently to, to, not be
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: in this position. And I can't make myself any different, right?
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: I can't muffle myself. I'm also not gonna dance, right?
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: I'm not gonna start saying that things in our community
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: aren't important or we haven't been wrong. And let me
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: be very clear about this. I don't believe that everything
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: black is right. Like, I don't. Like, sometimes we are wrong.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: Sometimes we have to hold ourselves accountable. And I think
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: we all try to do that as much as we
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: possibly can, but we also aren't always wrong.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: But would you ever want to be in a place
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: again where you can't be yourself?
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: No.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Where you can't wear a jersey, where you can't give your.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: True, honest opinion on how you feel about what's going
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: on in the WNBA or the NBA or the NFL
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: or whatever it may be?
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: No, I wouldn't.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: But it almost feels like you had to bite your tongue.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: In some ways.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: And you doing this the way that you're doing it
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: now is almost like a release. It's almost like a freedom.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a freedom in it for sure. But there's also,
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: for me now, the understanding of the separation. Right? Like
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: I started to pivot sports show because I knew I'd
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: miss talking about football.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Right? Right. If that was the obvious pivot, though, no
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: pun intended.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Like if you but if you wanted to hurt me,
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: just be like, bro, we're going to take this touchscreen
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: away from you. Right. Because like it's all I've I've
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: loved football, you know, and just to get this, you know,
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: and I say this all the time. To all of us,
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: we have kids, right? Football until I had kids was
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: the only thing I ever loved without reciprocation. You know
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: what I'm saying? Like the first time I touched it,
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: I was like, man, I know exactly what to do
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: with that. And I want to do this the rest
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: of my life. Obviously you can't. Right. But, and so
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: transitioning into, into what I did gave me a piece
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: of that to have. And as much as we can
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: talk football on our show or on our podcast, you
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: can't do it to the level where April will able,
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: we're able to do it now on the pivot sports show.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: You don't have, now we got the NFL footage because
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: of our relationship with NFL films. Now we're, I can
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: do touch screens. We can do all those things. And
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: I want that to be that thing. And then I
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: have the pivot as well. And so now these things
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: I'm passionate about and these things that I believe are
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: part of my purpose, I get to do that too.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: But I can now separate those things. And you know,
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: the person that's on this touch screen, this is what
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: he believes. That's not changing.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: But you don't have to. As long as the two
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: don't collide as it pertains to sports, I can keep
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: them separate. Now, if something happens on the field or
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: something happens to a football player or basketball player or
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: whatever those things is, yeah, I'm going to speak on
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: it because I don't have to muffle myself in that way.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: But you also I do think you you have to
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: be smart and understand what the platforms are for. And
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: now in doing that, I control what news, what. What
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: part of the sport we talk about on the Pivot
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: Sports Show? And y'all know this too, though. When you
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: do shows like Get Up, First Take especially, we're going
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: to talk about things that involve social justice or what's
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: going on in society, right? I'm only going to tell
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: the truth. And there were times when I was there, especially,
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: you think, 2017, where we'd have production meetings and they
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: would ask me about something.
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: Because that's when the protests were going on. That's when
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: you were hearing things from the highest office in the country.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: And they'd ask me in a production meeting. I'd give
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: my answer and they'd tell me, well, we ain't finna
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: ask you. Right. Like you won't be involved in that segment,
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: which probably helped me, especially at that time, because they
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: knew that what I was going to say wasn't going
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: to be the popular thing. Now you fast forward to
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: 2020 when some of that had switched and they calling
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: me to be on TV every day because they know
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: what I thought, they know what I felt. And if
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: you remember at that time, it was starting to be
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: acceptable to feel the way we did.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: And so there were all of these things that, that
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: went on and, I kind of understood them. I probably
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: didn't weigh them as heavily, Charlemagne, as I should have.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: And then now you kind of understand where we are,
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: who we are, but having your own thing, there's so
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: much power in that.
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: The only one thing that you said I didn't like,
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: you said that you felt like you couldn't be too black.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what that means. I did not
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: understand that.
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: I can explain to you, right?
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Once.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Once this thing happened, right? People in my circle, people
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: close to me, they hear things, right? And you hear
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: them and because they love you, they tell you. Honestly,
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: I sometimes believe part of love is probably being like,
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: I know him so well, I won't share this thing
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: because I know how he is, right? I'm going to
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: protect him from himself, you know? I only say that
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: or I said that thing because it was a direct
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: quote from someone.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: That you were being too black.
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Got you.
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: You see what I'm saying? It wasn't me making this
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: thing up or pulling this thing out of thin air
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: and saying, man, I just felt like I was too black.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: It was said that I was.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: And so when it's said, it's like, oh, yeah, this
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: is the thing. And you know, It's so crazy, because
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: I said that on our episode, and what happens is,
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: in 50 minutes, people pull these little pieces from it.
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: The big thing was that I cried about losing a job,
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: but I didn't. I was talking for 50 minutes, and
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: the only moment that made me emotional was talking about
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: people like y'all, or people when I'm walking down the
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: street who tell me they proud of me. You know
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: what I'm saying? Who tell me, like, because you do
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: your job the way you do it and the way
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: you represent us, that matters to us. I talked for
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: 49 other minutes or 48 other minutes about the job
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: and I never got emotional. I understood what that was.
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: But I don't, when you come, if you don't come
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: from like where we come from, you don't understand what
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: it means to like have the respect of people you
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: care about.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: Of, you know what I mean? Like when I go
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: to church, like I'm walking out of church and people
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: are stopping me and telling me like, they love what
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: I do and they appreciate the way I represent. They
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: tell me don't change. Like that matters to me. And
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: so when we got to, to that part of the show,
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: when Fred asked the question, because like the show wasn't scripted,
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: I wasn't really necessarily ready for it. And it, it,
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: made me think about all those moments that leave me
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: with pride and all those moments that made me feel
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: like who I was was acceptable. I grew up on
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: the West Bank and I don't know if it's like
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: this in places you from. If you're not from the
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: city city, city people act funny with you. You know
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: what I mean? They'll make the distinction. One of my
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: homeboys called me the other day. He coaches at Pittsburgh
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: and he said he met this woman And she was
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: from New Orleans. And he told her... He's like, oh, man,
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: my best friend from New Orleans. And he told her
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: the exact city I'm from. And she was like, that
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: ain't New Orleans. That's a real thing.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Not even New York. You're from Queens. You're from New York.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: But if you're from Albany or Binghamton, they don't consider.
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: That New York. Right.
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: And so I live... Jess, I live 10 minutes from
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: the Superdome. That's where I grew up. You know what
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: I'm saying? But because there's a bridge in between, they're like, nah,
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: you ain't from there. And so... Man, I went home
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: and I remember I went to see DeJounte Murray play
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: for the Pelicans. So I'm sitting courtside and this dude
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: from the other side yells out. He was like, you
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: ain't from the West Bank. You from New Orleans. I
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: damn near cried. And I know that's like a simple
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: thing to other people. But to me, when you grow up,
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: everybody telling you that you ain't from a place and
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: whether it's your work, the way you represent or whatever
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: it is, like all that's forgotten. And they're like, nah, man,
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: you represent us. It's like all those things were important
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: to me. And so it was cool to get a
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: chance to say, to, you know, to do that. But
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: the other piece of it was like, If you've seen, man,
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: like I've been super quiet.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: Like we did that show and I just went to work.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: All these shows had think pieces about what happened on
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: our show or what happened. And, you know, we in
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: the world where people feel like you got to shoot
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: back at everything. And trust me, like that is my personality.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: Like I'm very comfortable with combat, you know, but you
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: start looking at the landscape. And my thing is like
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: I sat back from it and I was like, I
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: don't want to be like that person. Right. I don't
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: want to feel like I'm always into something, you know.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: And then, you know, you learn that like people are
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: just doing that to drive views. People are just doing
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: that to get clicks. Why am I going to give
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: you a second layer of a conversation? So I just
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: pull back from all that. You know, I was very
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: grateful for what y'all did the day after and subsequent
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: days and helping me and supporting me. And I wanted
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: to come on the show, but I knew I had
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: emotion I couldn't talk about.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: And I didn't want to come on here and it
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: had to be all about what happened to me because
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: truly what it's about now is what's happening to me.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: You knew Netflix was coming.
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: I mean, I text you about that a while ago.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? And so just trying to
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: figure out what our next move was.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Do you regret anything? Now? No.
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: The day of, maybe.
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: Why?
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: The day of, maybe. You know what I'm saying? Because
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: you have a responsibility to people.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: And I think you have the responsibility to the people
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: in your household first. But also, if you grow up
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: like us, where Not everybody has the means that you have.
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: You start to take care of a lot of people.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Like, my mother's retired. My
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: father's retired. They're doing fine and they're well, but I
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: want them to always be all right. Yeah.
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: I don't want my mom to ever have to go
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: back to a place of, like, when we were little, like, oh,
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: I can't buy this thing this week, but I can
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: buy that one.
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: And because of our blessings, I had gotten my immediate
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: circle out of that place.
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: So that was the first part of it. I thought, damn,
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe I let some some people down. I
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: also felt like the way I utilize my platform, that
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: the people who didn't necessarily agree with me wanted to
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: devalue that and diminish those opportunities or the space I
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: held and that maybe I had let them win. A
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: little bit. So that was part of it. And it
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: wasn't like I regretted being myself. I think you look
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: at more the result than the process.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: I was fine with who I was in the process.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: But then the result, you're like, damn, you know, what
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: did I contribute to that? But I also think like
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: you have to have that level of awareness and accountability.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: Not that I now have a new boss because, you know,
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: we're the bosses. But there has to be an understanding
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: of how did you get there? What part did you
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: play in it? Because we can't always just be pointing
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: the finger and blaming other folks for our circumstances. I
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: can't do that.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I commend you for not going back on the air.
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: Because I think I would have went back on the
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: air and let everybody know, hey, they just fired me.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I know you thought about it for a second. No,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I didn't.
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: I asked. I asked a question. I said, well, should
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: I be done then?
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: And I can be honest with you. If he would
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: have been like, finish the show, I would have finished
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: the show.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, so they pulled you off.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: Yes, they say, yeah, I think you should be done.
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: And so, yeah, and so, you know, it wasn't really
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: my decision at the time.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Did you see who, you know, a lot of times
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: when things like that happen, you see who's really by
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: your side.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Did you see a lot of change in your so-called
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: friends or even the people that you rode for in
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: the past kind of just move away?
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: No. Everybody still with you? No. I don't know. I mean,
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you say everybody, right? Because I
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: guess I can't quantify who I've rode for and this
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: and this. But there's no one I can think of
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: right now who I had a relationship with who didn't
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: show me even more how much they were down for. Like,
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: to be honest. And that's just not... That's just not in...
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: my immediate family, like that's on a larger scale of humans.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: You know, I didn't, you kind of just kind of
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: trot along in life and like you never really know
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: like how people feel about you. And I just did
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: something with The Athletic and I watch a lot of movies,
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: probably too many. And in The Fault in Our Stars,
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: Augustus Waters, the dude who ends up passing, he had
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: his funeral while he was alive. And his best friend
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: talked And his girlfriend talked. I felt like I was
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: sitting in the pews of that. Mm-hmm.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: That's my movie.
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: Right. But you know what I'm saying? Because because there
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: was Charlamagne saying this or just saying this or Envy
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: saying that there was like people stepping up for me
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: and having my back and supporting me publicly.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: It wasn't just like I got a ton of text
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: messages and phone calls, but it was like people publicly
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: saying like what happened to you was not right. We
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: won't just be quiet about it. And here is what
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: you mean to us. Here is what you mean to me.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: And that was important, right? And so, yeah, man, I
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: felt like more than anything, people are showing out, right?
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: You think on the day we announced Netflix, we announced
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: it by ourselves, right? Our producer, Alicia, was just like, nah,
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: I want to make sure. Yeah, she was like, I
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: want to make sure that people know we're doing this. And, like,
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: a big part of it was, like, she wanted to
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: make sure that folks knew, yeah, just because, like, This
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: one organization or entity or network doesn't see it, doesn't
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: mean nobody does. And if you look at it, the
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: next day, Netflix announced four other podcasts. It was nothing
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: compared to the love and support that we got.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: That's a fact. They didn't just announce four other podcasts.
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: They announced a whole new slate, including Cat Williams. They
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: announced that they were re-signing their original shows like Pete Davidson's.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: None of them had to pop like the pivot. Right.
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: And that was, but that was the people, right? That
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: was people supporting on Monday when we, so the whole
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: big thing, right, y'all. And I had been working on
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: the show, like probably I gave it like a day.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: And the first thing I said is like, I got
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: on the first Monday of football, I will be on
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: TV somewhere.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: We will have a show. I didn't know how I
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: was going to do it, but that was my idea.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: September 14th, I will not let Monday night football come on.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: I will not let a Sunday or a weekend of
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: football happen. And I'm not somewhere breaking down football on Monday, period.
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: It wasn't going to happen. So I started working on
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: that right away. And so like you're you're doing that, man.
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: And you're you're you're in that that mode. And it's like,
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: how do I get it done?
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: How do I get it done? And the big thing
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: was the people who were involved in helping me were like, bro,
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: you got to put this out, right? We got to
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: make this big. And I was like, no, I'm not
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: going to announce it at all. You know, because my
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: thing was, if I don't announce it, all people can
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: talk about is what I do. Right. They don't have
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: to watch the show and be honest with themselves about
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: what the show is. Now, you put it out a
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: week before and you start promoting it. People who don't
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: want you to succeed. Oh, we know what this is
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: going to be.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: Right. They start knocking it before they can even see it. Right.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: This is not going to be this. It's not going
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: to be that. Whereas if I give you two hours
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: and they had to move me enough that they said
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: they were like, we want people to be able to
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: tune in right as it comes on. That's why we
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: went with the announcement with Jalen Hurts and Odell Beckham Jr.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: So people could at least know it was coming. And
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: so I was like, we drop that at 12 and
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: then we give them the show. And now if I
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: don't produce, if me and Chan and Fred don't produce
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: and the show sucks, then I got to accept that.
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: But if it's good, then they have to say it.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: And it looks good. The set was the first thing
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: that caught my eye.
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: Like, oh my God. Before I even heard anything you said,
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: I was like, oh, this set fire. I've listened to you,
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: Chan and Fred for so long. I'm like, that's the
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: easy part. But the set looked incredible.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: But that was important. You know, so- I hosted Inside
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: the NFL with NFL Films. And so the president, Ross Ketover,
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: the vice president, Keith Cosgrove, they're like family to me.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: And you talk about people stepping up. You walk into
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: their office with this crazy idea. Hey, me, Chan, and
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: Fred are going to do a studio show. You're expecting, ah,
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: you got like six weeks, brother. That's not going to happen.
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: And the answer was, whatever you need, you got it.
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: And I think that's what... This entire thing has taught me,
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: in one situation, I didn't have the relationships, and y'all
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: know this, I didn't have the relationships I needed, but
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: in moving forward, I had everything I needed. And you know, Jess,
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: y'all know, bro, that don't come together like that. If
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: I'm on the other side, if I'm on the betting
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: against RC side, I'm like, he might be sitting down
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: talking about football, he ain't gonna be talking about it
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: in the studio like that. And so that was, like,
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: the huge blessing in what we were able to do.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: I just got two more questions because I know you
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: way past your heart.
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: But when you were playing football, you understood that eventually, like,
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: the team could replace you. Why is that lesson harder
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: to remember in television?
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: I don't think I... I think it was easier to
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: remember in television, you know, that they could replace you
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: because there's no metric, really. Like, they don't care that you...
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: What is it? The Q rating as well.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Four of them.
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: Right. They don't care about that. And like, there's no scoreboard. Right.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: Football had the scoreboard. So you knew. And I think
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: there were enough people there who kind of supported me,
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: had my back. And it was like, damn, you know,
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: every year you're in this position and you know, nominated
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: for Sports Emmy. The two shows that your mainstays on,
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: you know, both are nominated. One's won two in a row.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: You know, it's like, man, there's a chemistry going there.
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: And I did believe that it was a possibility I
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: wouldn't get a new contract. But coming into the year,
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: ESPN having a Super Bowl, our shows that we were
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: all on doing so well, I did think I'd have
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: the possibility of getting through the year. And I don't
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: necessarily know if it's about Um, feeling like I couldn't
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: be replaced. Cause like I said, man, like they replaced
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: Stuart Scott, right? Not in the negative way like I did,
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: but when people still watch ESPN, I did think that
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: they'd want to keep the chemistry of what we built
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: on so many different platforms and the comfort of the
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: viewers knowing I'm a CRC on this for the year.
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: And so it wasn't, it's the nastiness in which it
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: happened that it was worse to me than like it
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: actually happening. Like I can accept the first world problem
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: I have right now of not being on ESPN, but
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: being paid the rest of my contract and understand that
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: there are people in much worse situations, even that got
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: laid off the day after me.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: But it was more kind of just like the nastiness
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: I felt behind it.
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: Did ESPN teach you the difference between being celebrated by
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: an institution and being valued by an institution?
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: Behind the scenes, to be honest with you, I was neither.
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: You don't feel like you were celebrated at all value?
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: By who?
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: Right? Now, if you talk to the people that dealt
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: with me like this, absolutely. Whether you're talking about Stephen A, Dano, Marcus, Mina, Laura,
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: showrunner from NFL Live, Lydell, producer and showrunner of Monday
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: Night Countdown, you know, Aisha, Marco, Mark Eisman, them people? Absolutely.
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: All the time. Right? This can't go without you. Hey,
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: we can do this because you have this skill set.
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: Like all of those things. But while you're doing that,
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: you're constantly hearing that such and such doesn't like you. Right?
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: And if you look at my career there, outside of
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: like earning certain jobs, I was never pushed to the
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: forefront to be the guy.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: I was never given like the leeway of now we
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: got you. Like you even look at some of the
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: scandals or like some of the things and issues they've had.
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: And you think about like some of the stuff that
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: became mostly for me, it was like social media fodder.
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: They never said Ryan Clark's our guy. They never put
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: out a statement that we're standing behind him. They've done
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: that for other people. They never did that for me.
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: And so from a celebration standpoint, no, I think what
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: was celebrated about me was more the people who viewed
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: the shows and understood my value there.
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: Well, people love you.
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: And they trust your voice. That's right.
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: And congratulations.
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much. I appreciate y'all.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: I know you got to run. We appreciate you for
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: joining us this morning.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: I can tell you're really working out. I thought you
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: were just doing it for the gram because you'd be
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: in there dancing.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I see the biceps.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: I see what's going on. Thank you, brother. We appreciate
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: you again. It's the Breakfast Club.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: Good morning.