Latest / Death Before Decay / The Way We See Ourselves

Transcript

The Way We See Ourselves · Death Before Decay

• speaker-2: All right. Welcome to the Death Before Decay podcast. I'm Dr. Elliot Amiston. ⁓ this is a podcast not just about dentistry, but about things that are meaningful to people and telling stories, learning about culture and creativity, just mostly having a real conversation with interesting people. Today I've got KJ from New Art Dental Lab ⁓ I've got my co-host John Erline. How are you doing, KJ? ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: What's up, Elliot? Thanks for having me. Happy to be here. speaker-2: Thanks for coming on, man. So I had always wanted to do podcasting. It was like something that like had entered my mind a few times. We talked about this on an earlier episode. And then John and I finally pulled the trigger. But the first podcast I was ever on was actually your podcast. And what's the your podcast called? speaker-0: Cool. ⁓ speaker-2: Yeah. Yeah. And what I like about your podcast is it's like the topics are kind of all over the place. You you'll have a thirty minute episode and then you'll have an hour and ten minute episode depending on the guest. speaker-0: Yeah, what I find is in person guests go way longer. Yeah. Whenever I 'cause I do I do a good mix of both. ⁓ if we can get someone in person, I think that's always preferred. But a lot of times, especially if this person's out of state, just makes more sense to do it ⁓ you know, via the internet and then clean up the audio on the back end, you know, and and make sure everything sounds good. Yeah. ⁓ it and it's great to have a mixture of both, I think. ⁓ 'cause it does mix up the conversations, like you mentioned. speaker-2: Yeah, absolutely. And when I first met you, this is like full circle. So we're I toured the the dental lab and then we we talked about doing the podcast. I came back a couple of weeks later because I knew I wanted to do it in person. I just felt it would be more natural. And then one of the things we hit on like really hard in that episode was like talking about branding and marketing. And I was actually coming back here to John's studio and John was throwing products and all kinds of do you remember that? Sure. speaker-0: Correct, yes. speaker-1: yep. Yep. We had Dr. Elliot reviewing products and what he recommended, what he didn't, because from a branding and marketing standpoint, right, like we want to position Dr. Elliot as an authority in the local community, like, hey, he's giving us valuable information on everyday products that I'm considering to use, right? And then getting, you know, the testimonial from the source. speaker-2: Yeah. Right. So it was just like a kind of a full circle moment. I like, Man, if I do a a podcast I should get K J on and then I was thinking I was like, Well that that was that day that I had I was like on camera all day. speaker-0: Was that like year ago? Yeah, I was gonna say maybe like less than a year for sure. I it was last year. Yeah, it was it was summer, early fall or something. Yeah. speaker-2: Probably. Last summer. It was like a nice day. speaker-1: It definitely wasn't crappy outside. I remember that. speaker-2: It was. It w yeah. And we were stuck inside. But so when John and I were having the conversation ⁓ about bringing you on, KJ, it was like he works for a dental lab and then people are like, ⁓ he's a dental technician. I'm like, I actually don't know. So tell me how you got into this world. speaker-0: Man, that's really interesting. know, back in twenty ⁓ twenty and twenty twenty one and twenty nineteen, I was actually a full blown entrepreneur, which I don't know if a lot of people know, ⁓ certainly, you know, my close friends and fam do, but some some dentists I'll share it with, you know. But but really, ⁓ it was an interesting time because I I I turned twenty eight and I was like, Okay, I really want to ⁓ have like a family one day and stuff like that and I thought that Well, there are certain things that are absolutely magical about entrepreneurship. Like, you know, if you have a late night the the night before, you you can have no stress, no one you can actually like sleep in and start your work a little later or something. But I I realized that that was probably like having a family and everything was probably gonna come from a place of stability. Sure. So I ⁓ you know, I started applying to to some jobs, had a couple of offers, and I ended up choosing new art because I really had a connection with the owner. it was also ⁓ Just I saw the lab. It was really inspiring. ⁓ I've always liked and been intrigued by the manufacturing process. ⁓ I've worked ⁓ you know, doing branding, doing marketing, doing sales for like ⁓ some factories and other manufacturing environments in the past. However, this was like unique because it was like one of one products. Yeah. And I also didn't even know this existed before I got into it. But man, I ended up choosing new art. ⁓ it seemed like a pretty good role, seemed like a pretty good relationship. I could I could do both like you know, ha handling customers and clients like the dentists like you at the same time work on the branding and then help the lab grow. So it was kind of like I like the the variety in it. And and it was like very dinosaur stone age in terms of marketing. ⁓ when I first came in about four and a half years ago. And I was I was able to bring in, you know, just some like modern touch, modern feel, very similar to you to what you do essentially, but in a different market, even though they overlap. Yeah. And ⁓ that's kind of the the origin story is you know, I was able to funny provide like podcast services, ⁓ media to some really cool clients. So so when I when I got to like start the the confessions from a dental lab pod, it was all just like systems were ready, just kind of dialed it in. And then Frank said, Hey, Frank is the owner of New Art. ⁓ he said, Hey, ⁓ I'd like to make the show geared towards ⁓ dentists or or get a lane for that. I was like, ⁓ that's a great idea. So we started having guests on and they were dentists, so I already knew how to book ⁓ I already knew kind of like speaker-2: You've got all those dentists that you work with every day. So you literally have just an entire pool of people to talk. speaker-0: And it's it's very interesting, Dr. Elliot, because some of ⁓ I would say maybe two thirds of like doing media, but but one third of them are like absolutely no thank you. And I f I just find that interesting, not like it's right or wrong or anything, but ⁓ you're definitely one of those, I would say, dentists on the new wave, building your digital presence young. Really ⁓ I find it fascinating because you're in like this micro market of Sheboygan. So if you really dial it in, I feel like you could dominate. ⁓ speaker-2: Yeah, I mean speaker-0: Invested in the brand and the business. speaker-1: The channels of marketing, right? The channels of communication that are now available to us and some of those like old school like folks that were doing the the radio and maybe a a billboard or just something that's a little more archaic, right? They're all these new levers to pull for marketing. speaker-2: And all those mailers and things like that. There's a lot of parallels here, man. Cause you know, like I was doing music for a long time and dropped out of college and like know, the the stability was one of the things that pushed me towards like locking it in and doing something different. And then again, coming into a practice that really wasn't on the cutting edge ⁓ having to take it to the next level and ⁓ do something different. ⁓ ⁓ cool, man. ⁓ What is your role like day to day at New Art? speaker-0: It's really something new every day. ⁓ I like it because it's like an all encompassing role. you know, I get to work ⁓ directly for the owner, which in my opinion helps remove a lot of noise ⁓ ⁓ anything that might get in the way of being productive. ⁓ it's easier to align on clear objectives. you know, it's easier to make quicker decisions. But it ⁓ on day to day it's usually talking a lot of dentists. combination of in person on the phone, via social channels like Instagram. you know, yeah, ⁓ speaker-2: Only communicate with you through social speaker-0: Well it's interesting 'cause it does get to be a lot to manage if it speaker-2: like lab updates I'll just be like, Hey man, can you check on speaker-0: If anything gets imp if anything is super important, I'm very much like that ⁓ that like alternate source that a dentist can reach out to to like go and talk to the case manager, talk to like the surround you or like get an update or something. but then it'll it'll also be like putting together media, ⁓ whether it's posts, you know, written content that we'll maybe email to our ⁓ you know, s l ⁓ list and stuff like that, ⁓ podcasts, having conversations, ⁓ you know, strategizing. ⁓ hopping on some other calls yeah, know, it's ⁓ it's a good combination. It's not like just sitting there doing the same thing all day every day, w which I I I think is is good. ⁓ yeah, definitely. ⁓ speaker-1: Do you feel like you're wearing a lot of hats? speaker-0: Yeah, I mean, it depends on what your expectations are. So for me, I I think like technically you could say I am because, you know, whether it's something like graphic design, podcast producer, podcast host, like business development, ⁓ customer serv you know, like who knows like all these little ha like shipping and receiving some day, you know, like shipping stuff out, like going to FedEx, stuff like that. ⁓ event coordinate you know, you name it. And ⁓ But for me, I feel like it's all just responsibility. And and it and it kind of like falls under ⁓ especially with a firm, you know, we're like seventy five ish people or whatever. It's not like super big. You kind of have to expect to wear multiple hats. And I don't know if that's just like just being in in business for like ten years now is kind of just like reset my expectations. Like I'm used to wearing multiple, especially coming from the entrepreneurial background. Yeah. Like you gotta wear every single hat through like accounting, you know what I'm saying? You gotta do everything, yes, you know. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-2: Yeah, 'cause Don runs his own business too, so speaker-1: Yeah, accounting sucks. I outsource it. So let's start there. But ⁓ no, that's I think that's just called leaning in, being a good team player, you know. For sure. Cause it's you know, and that separates, you know, people ⁓ people a great deal because like you care. You know, like that's a level of caring that you know some other people don't put forth, right? Like this isn't just a job to you. This is with your entrepreneurial background, you're like Hey, this is a great way for me to just elevate my overall skills presence and personal brand. You know, and then like then I got more tools in my tool set. speaker-0: Absolutely. Yeah. speaker-2: So one of the things about this podcast is it's not supposed to be just for dentists. We're trying to c like dentistry is involved, obviously, but we're we talk we're trying to talk about a a lot of different topics that can apply to a a lot of different people and they can lean into it. But of the reasons I thought, like, hey, definitely bringing KJ on is gonna a fun time is because the dental lab is like the hidden aspect of everything that we do in dentistry. ⁓ even for someone like myself who does a lot of the stuff in-house, if we don't have a good dental lab that we can lean on when we do need the assistance, there's no way that we can possibly create those beautiful smiles. And you if you've been a patient and you've gotten a crown and the crown doesn't fit and the the the dentist ⁓ blames the lab, Sometimes it's the lab's fault, sometimes it's other issues. But like, you know, it's it's this thing of like the doc the doc just like tries to pass on the buck and you don't believe him. Well, there is actually a large collaboration going on behind the scenes. speaker-0: It's really something. Like it really is, yeah. It quite a large lot of people involved. speaker-2: And it I know, and your your your lab is absolutely massive, ⁓ especially for a privately owned one. Like you guys are still private, right? speaker-0: Yeah, I mean there's definitely been investment over the years. so I I'm not sure like what's ⁓ public or what's not, but it helps us buy the newest technology. And so that's ⁓ that's but but it it is like fully autonomous, you know, essentially because we're able to make decisions like of our satellite of the dental world, you know what I'm saying? And ⁓ speaker-2: No, I get what you're speaker-0: It really is something like to just add on to what Dr. Elliot was saying, ⁓ the sheer scale of collaboration, like there's like a whole business you're kind of like working with behind the scenes that like I certainly didn't know existed till I got into the field and I thought the dentist just like had it in back. You know, and and speaker-2: We have a lab in back, but not the lab. speaker-0: And there's a whole like workflow and phone calls and really if you wanna do it right with the important cases, you might wanna get on the phone a time or two. I I tell dentists. ⁓ you know, if you could really dial it in with like the the written communication text, that's one thing. But ⁓ you know, hopping on the phone just to synergize once in a while is it never goes speaker-2: Also having the specific lab tech that you work with. Like if I need if I know I need to have somebody very specific work on a case, I usually send it to your lab 'cause I know Merrick. and and he he knows what I'm looking for. and also not afraid to get on the phone and tell me, Hey, this isn't going to work, which is super important. 'Cause so too often some of the labs will just be like, Whatever, that's what he asked for. And yeah. And doesn't help me. It doesn't help the patient. speaker-1: Do do you think that like some of the disconnect there is nomenclature? Like industry nomenclature and then like people's different perception of that? speaker-2: I think it's part of that, like, especially if you've got a lab technician that was like trained on the job probably and is like really new to the field, they're not gonna interpret some of those like issues appropriately. And the dental might the dentist might use like jargon that isn't going to fit with right what the the technician knows. So having like knowing that you've got a lab that has a lot of experienced technicians working there ⁓ really valuable. So I've got labs that do that. But then also having a technician that knows you, how you practice, that's huge. And yeah, what's really cool about New Art is they've got a lack a lab technician that my dad worked with and I now work with. speaker-0: Cool. speaker-1: You built so building the relationship. I mean, I I've so many times been inside the walls of corporations where that internal jargon they feel like is common tongue or common, you know, like the nomenclature, but the outside those walls they don't understand it. Yeah. You know that the jargon part, right? Right. So like keeping keeping that top of mind for other people as you're communicating. speaker-2: And so much of this industry is like relationship driven. But like what do you think patients or people like you've already said like you thought it was just a room in the back of the dental office, but what do you think people really don't understand about the dental lab? Because I know what a dental lab looks like, but a lot of people do not. Like it's a multi you have departments. It's not just one big room. speaker-0: When I first saw it I ⁓ it was kinda cool because for the listeners, it was my first time ever seeing it, so that same fresh thought, I still remember it. It was like toy shop for teeth. ⁓ know what? That's like one and also it was almost like ⁓ just like a high tech factory, you know, i it was ⁓ it was very cool to see. And you guys ⁓ speaker-2: That's way a good way to look at that. Also embrace the old school still too. speaker-0: Do ⁓ every every workflow, which is really cool. ⁓ there's very little that I I don't think we've ever really had to say no to a dentist, which is really makes my job a little easier. I don't have to be super picky about what I'm selling and be like, Hey, ⁓ you know, we can't help you out. We can only help you out with like these five things. No, we can do anything, which is really helpful. We're like a one stop shop that's at full services. But I think the one thing people who've never seen a lab should take away is it's literally like one ⁓ of one. Every item we make is one of one because every smile's unique, as you know, Dr. Elliot. And ⁓ that's incredibly difficult. You know, just like I'm I'm happy I get to brand it and make it look cool and and and showcase how friendly the the people are there. ⁓ You made a good point. I didn't really say anything earlier, but a lot of it is just training your eyes to to see those insane details. Like like the you notice things in teeth that like the average person wouldn't. You know, and like now I can see things more 'cause I'm in the trenches. Yeah. But like the average person might not even notice like the halo effect on a veneer, like ⁓ you know, it's some translucencies or or something or texture. I know you made a post recently, I think, about texture. Texture and ⁓ speaker-2: How light reflects off of things is is how teeth. speaker-0: Very difficult. It's a tough business too. That's one thing I think the audience would also be interested to It's like I think dentistry's tough. I mean, think about hard dentistry is, right? Like you come out of school with ⁓ ton of debt. you know, ⁓ you you're all of a sudden like you don't really have much business training, so all of a sudden you're having to ⁓ like a business. Yes. You have to do your CE, you have to manage all these patients. Like you're being relentlessly solicited by, you know, every country every company out there. ⁓ You gotta say like yes, you gotta say no because you do need to to buy things, but like, you know, it's like how mu how much them are you racking up the tab and then your staff wants to leave for like an extra dollar because they've got offers everywhere for hygienist and assistance. And then you go one level, like as hard as the end you're super lonely in profession because a lot of dentists say on on the pod when they I interview them to say, It really is an island, you know, and like it a lot of dentists are very happy if they're in a little group or multi dental practice, I find. Yeah. Or have like a parent or someone a relative who's in it. Yeah. That's huge to like mentorship. But then you go one level deeper in the stack the dental lab world. Yeah. ⁓ is hysterical how challenging. It's almost like this must be what like working in sp on like rockets is like. You know, like like you you get it right, like not every single time, but like it's such a huge deal when you just like land it perfectly, right? speaker-2: Especially on your first case, 'cause that'll make or break the relationship. Like like was I if I like when I was first getting out and I'm like trying to figure out which lab I wanted to do, whichever one got the case the best the first time was the one I've worked with going forward. And as soon as they Yeah, and as soon as they s it like it started not going well, I was out too. speaker-0: Receiving too. That's that's what I hear in a lot of these conversations is is a lot of labs will try and like, you know, do a good job in the beginning, but they just don't have like the bandwidth to keep it up or something. Yeah. And then and then so you gotta be wary of that first hook. You know, what what I found is interesting, and Frank and I talk about this all the time with our staff, is it's it's like way harder to get a new client than it is to to keep a current one, whether it's like a dentist or whether it's anything. And ⁓ Furthermore, building on top of that, there's like studies out there that show if you go through adversity with like your you know, your client or your your person or contractor, whoever, and you come out on the other side, you know, you're like eighty percent more likely to give that person like a testimony, you know, or something and then like word of mouth is so powerful whether it's a speaker-2: We're doing a lot more video testimonial now because of that. speaker-0: And and and so ⁓ so we always kind of like embrace those opportunities so when like something in the lab may have gone wrong or or something happened where a certain case is like you know, not up to snuff. And you whether it's Frank or me, we're oftentimes just like hearing the dentist out, a lot of times they wanna be like know someone actually cares, you know, 'cause a lot of people if not everyone cares, to be honest. And so like if if you get like the owner on the line If you get like KJ on the line, like actually telling you we care and like here's how we're gonna fix it, it just strengthens those relationship and the relationship slingshots from like a tough place to an amazing place. And that's one thing I think, ⁓ it's same with the difficult patient. Yep. Like if you work through those difficult patients, you could really speaker-2: Yeah. I think that really ties into like, you know, kind of the theme that we're going for today is that like that just building this like entire network and relationship with people is so important because like you said, if a case isn't right when it comes back to me, the only person that the patient looks at with disappointment or anger is me. It's my fault. Right. ⁓ don't wanna like go and blame my lab 'cause then like that's just demeaning the relationship I'm trying to build with them. Right. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: When I screw it up. speaker-2: So for you to like reach out to the practitioner, be like, Look, hey, we're sorry, we'll make it right, things like that, that's huge. 'Cause I've worked with other labs where I have to go up the ladder to get someone to listen to me. speaker-0: Any business ever nowadays. Yeah. speaker-2: Like they're always trying to pass the person off to the lab tech, and the lab tech isn't like trained to deal with me. Like I I need to know that, like, hey, this case, we're taking it seriously. Let's figure out what's going on. Was it a breakdown on your end? Was it a breakdown on the lab's end? like we talk about it, like just simple things like the texture of a veneer, like an overpolished veneer ⁓ has no texture and is perfectly smooth is how you can tell a veneer is fake. ⁓ Because the light is reflecting off of it completely different. So if I get a bunch of veneers and I can tell that they've been milled and polished by someone who doesn't know that they're what they're doing, I don't want I have to bring that product to the patient and try to deliver that. That doesn't always work and it doesn't make me feel good. The patient's not getting what they're paying for. Like so who do I talk to? And having a Yeah, having a network of people in a relationship with someone that you can work with is is super important. speaker-0: But Also multiple mediums of like, you know, we were talking earlier about how we might, you know, text like an address or like an ETA or something on Instagram or like a check-in or something. But like in these difficult combos, like you're having them in person most of the time, Dr. Elliot. Yes. I'm either having them in person if someone comes to the lab, but a lot of time I like to get it done on the phone because it's just so much easier than like typing back and forth. And I think that's ⁓ another takeaway. speaker-2: ⁓ so one of the things that one of the reasons we thought this podcast would be fun and we and I like jumped into branding and and really heavily was because the industry is changing. It is modernizing very quickly. I we have there's dental influencers. That's yeah, because like speaker-0: Crazy. speaker-2: My dad always said dentists were the most boring people on the planet, but like speaker-1: They're they're really coming out of their shelves now. speaker-2: ⁓ yeah. speaker-0: Dental Instagram is next level. speaker-2: Dude can so it ⁓ crazy. It's all over the place. It's everywhere. Yeah, well not all of ⁓ but I do speaker-0: Loved flax. speaker-1: Dude high five. Dude high five on them. Come on. They love the f they love the flex. I like that. speaker-0: like in the middle. You're like you're like the subtle the subtle flex. ⁓ speaker-2: Yeah. The subtle flex. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ too. Like and you and I talked about this on your pod, so we're gonna hit on this topic of like how has social media changed I c like I can talk about how it's changed dentistry, but how is it changing the dental lab side of things? speaker-1: I d Yeah. speaker-0: Man, I I remember when I first came in, I did like a multi channel marketing strategy. Which I think like, you know, every good company should have multiple. ⁓ however ⁓ was kind of like nudged early on to go like heavy, heavy into Instagram. Yeah. But like, you know and so I was like interesting. I don't I didn't necessarily like I wasn't like super enthusiastic about like diving head first, you know, deeper deep you know what I'm saying? Like ⁓ speaker-2: You're talking John's language right now. speaker-1: Look at me. ⁓ speaker-0: We all know Instagram has got some connotations about it, but the dentists are living on there. So we did and and we get a l quite a few ⁓ you know, rel relationships and business and it's interesting they they come in all shapes and sizes. ⁓ I utilize the DM a lot. I think a lot of people are a little too w ⁓ or scared to utilize the DM. but that's how I get a lot of people to come on the pod. That's how we we s get a lot of people talking about, you know, what we do, what they do, how we can help them with their cases or what kind of things they're looking for or just like check ins and communication if we already are working. So sometimes these dentists will will want some branding exposure and stuff like that. So they'll come on the pod, you know, free of charge, stuff like that. And and then we'll we'll get to talk in and then they might, you know, hit us up six months later for a case or several cases. And then sometimes, you know, we might already work with them. ⁓ sometimes we might not work with them but have some mutual friends or followers or something like that. Or maybe I'll meet them at a conference or something. ⁓ the relationships just like life develop at different paces, I think. And it's just another medium of communication. Like it's it's weird to imagine the dental lab world without having Instagram be like central to the business, you know? ⁓ speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: You know, we talking about I don't know if this is on air or off air, but there are some ghost labs out there, right? That have advertising, no website. Like they're out there, they're doing stuff. but like especially with the dental field being so visual. It's not like this is like music and it's like a Spotify or like a a podcast on Apple Podcasts, but like like the smiles are very visual. So I guess that does make sense in terms of how Brands live on Instagrams, like textures, like all these speaker-2: That's the big thing. I think the reason Instagram seems to be like the most popular and TikTok is in there a little bit, it comes down to it, we're using our eyes to do a pretty much everything. and so ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ most of us are visual learners and we want to like look at things like ⁓ we want to see the the work that lab is doing. We want to know that each case is being taken care of. Like when I see my cases pop up on other dental labs Instagrams, I get so stoked. I'm like Yeah. That's mine. That's mine, right? speaker-1: Your portfolio. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. It's like someone else is taking the initiative to help c collectively dentists and labs help each other build their collective portfolios. Which is one of the best moves Instagram ever did, I will say, is a collab post. Yeah. Like that was a speaker-1: Yes, that is nice. It's really nice. I got I got I got a couple questions for you. So from so when you work with with with the podcast and you bring on other dentists, what is that their branding usually like? speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: What's common though? I'm mildly curious. speaker-0: Majority is they ⁓ I would say they might run their personal Instagram but they don't really get too involved with ⁓ the whole digital side of things. They because they're too busy running the the ship, you know. speaker-2: Yeah. ⁓ speaker-1: I w that's where I was going. Yeah. That's where I was going. Very rare. speaker-0: Alright. Very rare. Like like very f very rarely will I get sent a press kit once in a while. usually I just ask for a headshot. Yeah. You know, 'cause speaker-1: Now we're really speaking. speaker-0: Yeah, And half the time they don't send it over, so I just pull one. ⁓ speaker-2: That's crazy. speaker-1: It it w it was interesting, right? So I know that when when Doctor E was gonna go on your podcast, I was like, Well do you we gotta get a press kit together for you? speaker-0: You did send me the press kit. I remember getting yours. Yeah. speaker-1: Well, it it should have been very memorable because we collaborated on it and it looks really nice. But however, you know, it's it was too because like Dr. Elliot also understood the value of it from his ⁓ aids, yeah. Because he's impress kits all the time. So it's like I wish people thought of that more to like, Hey, I'm gonna be doing this public speaking thing or I'm gonna be on a podcast, right? Like speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: How should I represent my brand? Right. Like you said, I asked for a headshot. Well, the headshot should not be you cropped off from like a family photo or something like invest in your brand. Get a professional headshot, right? Give a little bio of like, hey, who are you? And what should I know about you so that you can start to prepare, right? Like the person that you're gonna be working with. Like to me, taking that time to do it always feels like an afterthought. And I wish people put more time into it. speaker-0: That's g that's good advice. Get a press kit. Go see the dentist and get a press speaker-1: You heard? speaker-2: Get a press kit and go see the dentist. Yeah, I mean the trends are changing. Aesthetics seem to matter a a whole lot more. Would you agree? Are people really pushing for more realistic porcelain and things like that? Like is are people becoming more demanding, do you think? speaker-1: In what regard? speaker-2: Do you have d dentists sending back cases more often? Are you getting speaker-1: More complex. speaker-0: You know, I think I wouldn't say more or less often. know that our remake rate is lower than the average, but it's one of those things where I think just like any business that's People are busy. Yeah. You know, I think I it's hard to even keep track of it all. You're you're almost like like the system keeps track of it. But like if you're at the bench in the trenches, you're probably just like, Okay, what's next? What's next? ⁓ okay, I took this phone call, keep an hour for this type of thing. And Yeah, that's that's probably the best answer I have for that. speaker-2: I mean, I think w what we're really hitting on is we we it's just a visual field. It it absolutely is. Aesthetics matter. is becoming more important. Like people need to be able to identify between dentists. speaker-1: I have a question though, and this is just going a little bit deeper because you guys have really piqued my interest about the collaboration. like how much of like so Dr. Elliot, when you're when you're working with their lab and we are I've been listening, right? We're talking texture, we're talking reflection, like all that stuff. Like, how do you guys collaborate ⁓ that? Not like I want the the the let's unpack it, but like The back and forth, the collaboration to avoid the remake, as you just pointed out. Like, how do you guys do that? speaker-0: Yeah, photos are the more info the better. ⁓ I think getting in a flow state with your guy or your gal, that that's certainly I mean, now that you're like in it, you probably like know how to do it, even though you might have not had to unpack that. I would say if it's like a fresh first time, the more info the better. Prescription, fill out the notes section as much as you can. Always good to put that in an email as well. That and shades. Straight up Phone call too. Yeah. speaker-2: Asking for the phone call. When you get when you get my case, I want a phone call back. let's go over this to make sure that we are on the same page. Especially for a big case. Like we did a 16 unit case a little while ago. Two, three months ago, maybe? Yeah. Yeah, I remember. Two or three. Two, three months ago. ⁓ it was it was great, but the collaboration between me and the lab tech at the time was like speaker-1: Mm. ⁓ speaker-2: All right, are we gonna be able to get the teeth to contact at these points? Like, am I gonna screw up things by doing it this way? This guy wants fresh smile, but if we go too white, like it's gonna stand out like a sore thumb. This needs to look natural. Like there's a lot that goes into that, and it's all about coloring and things like that. So you need to, first of all, you need to identify if your lab technician knows how to do that coloring. If they can't do the mapping of the coloring, You're s like you're already screwed. ⁓ 'cause you need to now dictate where everything goes. So for me, having a knowing I have a lab tech that can do that without me having to dictate too much. And then just like knowing that he they understand the differences there is is is big. Like, hey man, we need toilet bowl white. That's what the patient wants. Don't worry about it. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Toilet bowl white for the teeth, please and thank you. speaker-2: Call it T B one. speaker-0: Wow. ⁓ wow. Yeah, I think we've got like it's almost like a ⁓ 'cause it's it's primarily women. I was gonna say like a fraternity of ceramics, but it's like like sorority of ceramics. Yeah, I was about to say where where if someone new comes in, you've got just like such a good level of where the standard is at. Right. And they can show you how to like I know you mentioned like the the color mapping. is at their desks. They have the ⁓ the color mapping of like James Choi who invented the Mio stuff. And that's because he like came to the lab and ⁓ speaker-2: Neo is like one of the best staining systems for crowns and veneers. speaker-0: And so so they they're able to like look up and like, you know, pair that with a picture that you might send or someone might send. Like really the photos so pictures with a thousand words and speaker-2: But if the photo doesn't have a color reference point, you're screwed. So we use standardized colored tabs in the photo too. Because if the photo's too bright and they look at that and that and it says A four on it, okay, we know it's too bright. A four doesn't look like that. A four's a shade. ⁓ speaker-1: That's interesting 'cause like in my world we have the color checker where which has a bunch of different colors on it. It it's really to help white balance if anything. And typically like the gray square in there is what you speaker-2: There are there are some like lab tags out there that are so picky that they'll take the digital photo and calibrate it to the right color. Mm-hmm. speaker-1: I mean in my world too, like having a calibrated color ⁓ you know, monitor is like it's a standard. speaker-2: Yeah, absolutely. And I think this spins more into the another topic I wanted to hit on, which was creativity. Like that comes like there's a lot of problem solving involved in dentistry. ⁓ I assume i in in ⁓ lab techs ⁓ in the lab life and trying to ⁓ a brand and marketing for for a lab. you know, let's talk about like one of I know this is one of your favorite cases to talk about, which is the full gold. Yeah, like how tell me about that case specifically. speaker-0: Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, that case was interesting. It ⁓ it came in via an Instagram DM. So going back the the dentist said, Hey, I have a crazy request. Like, have you ever done an all go partial for like this, this, this, this? speaker-2: Save a caller right back. talking just the under structure, the teeth were gold too. speaker-0: And so I at the time didn't really know the the scope of this. I was like I was like, let me go ask for ya. I go into the removal lab and I see ⁓ and I show him the text. You know, if I don't really know direct I'll go and find an answer from a thought leader. And he looks at me, he's like, it's gonna be expensive. That was exactly what he did. That was his first words. And ⁓ I ⁓ This was about spring of twenty five. Okay. So the price of gold back then it was high. Yeah. And I remember this this ⁓ this is a huge case of then she had to then communicate how much it might be to her patient. That's a nerf ⁓ I I I can't say exactly, but like ⁓ ⁓ that's a that's like a expensive conversation to have, right? So there's a little bit of delicacy to the case, I guess, at this point. She wanted to go through with it. speaker-2: The five figures was. speaker-0: ⁓ in which case we had to tell her it was gonna be more expensive because of the price of gold was skyrocketing. So she was very upset about that. What we did is ⁓ we alluded to many times. We got on the phone. ⁓ Dan, I I I talked to her a little bit, and then Dan, Dan Ballmer from our removable lab, he talked to her, and was ready to move in move forward. ⁓ the patient, famous musician, he was ready to move forward. And you when they got done with it, they got these unbelievable photos, or I was like, Whoa, so that's what that looks like. You know? And he ended up making a post, the patient on the final end, she said he paid for it in cash. And I don't know I don't know what she marked it up to. I'm assuming it was something, right? Yeah. ⁓ And ended up making a post ⁓ and that this day that is probably like the most crazy case that I've ever been a part of. It's one of those things that would had extra I don't think people understand the pressure on the line because like you can't really like try it like three or four or five times you got this hot gold, you know. So I Dan and Doctor Stoyber are in house procedanists, we're both worried about that. They had to like execute it perfectly on the first try. And ⁓ credit to them, man. They they really they really made a great a great final product. speaker-2: Yeah, you can't recast all Such it was so cool. It was completely different. speaker-0: And I'm sure one day we'll have an even bigger case. Yeah. So maybe it'll be maybe it'll be one of your patients like Elliot or maybe you'll want the full It'll appreciate. speaker-1: Be being the son of a jeweler, I I am have a question on the the gold. Like is it ten karat gold? Because twenty four carats soft. speaker-0: You we've got a lot of we've got like a whole I don't I don't have this like handy 'cause I'm not y one of your case like Mark might be able to pull this. I think he's actually in Poland right now, funny enough. But hopefully enjoys some some time abroad. But you know, know our case managers have like the the spot prices of what we offer and stuff like that. It it's also tricky to give a direct quote. like when a lot of people speaker-1: The commission changes every day. speaker-0: It's like here's the craftsmanship, here's the cost of the metal, depending on what you go with. speaker-2: A lot of labs will just charge pennyweight these days. Yeah. But the that's the thing about like a gold crown. Like if you pull it out and sell it for just the gold value on it, you're not getting anything because there's cobalts, there's of them you said palladium in ⁓ Like there's a lot of other materials in them to give the best like ⁓ speaker-0: Sorry. speaker-1: The right durability that you're speaker-2: And the right price. Because you can get a whole gold crown that appears almost silver because it's got so many other metals in it. ⁓ that's what we would call a base metal or a low precious crown. ⁓ they ⁓ the higher the gold you get, you the more burnishability, the more natural gonna fit, and the more bacterial antibacterial it is too. Okay. So like gold is like probably the best material to put in your mouth. speaker-0: It's very biocompatible. speaker-1: why they wanted that done. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-2: ⁓ what do you think makes so like getting a case like that, you know, like you had to come in, you said it was like not in the stone age maybe, but they were behind on a lot of the like how to like market things to the modern dentist. What do you think makes the business feel more modern? What makes a dental office feel more modern? speaker-0: Being present. ⁓ I've been doing a lot more of just like talking to the camera check in videos. Yeah. I feel like people can relate to that. They're like, okay, it's almost like live content becoming more popular. ⁓ think people just want to see like what's real because we're we're coming out of this era where everything is supposed to be very polished. speaker-2: Right. speaker-0: And now I think people want to see like what's actually going on. So so you don't have to have the most polished video, but if they see there's a person that they might already know, like for example, if you are scrolling through your if you're putting yourself in the user experience, right? Like like the UX, like you might be scrolling your Instagram and because we've met a few times in person and like, you know, been following each other on on ⁓ the internet for a while, you might be like, ⁓ I know that person. Let me see what he has to say. Whether it's important or not important, that might capture some of your attention. Yeah. And then ⁓ it's a good way of like the more casual it is, in my opinion, it's it's it's almost like a a relationship, right? 'Cause I think at the core of everything is a relationship, especially in the lab business where you can never bet a thousand. So you want those good relationships, ⁓ in case you ever, you know, have another c client or dentist come back around or you know, you might have a hiccup at some point and then y you know, you guys end up getting back on the same page or something. It's not like it's one of those like super sticky relationships like ⁓ like a like an iPhone to the Apple cloud or s you know, where where it's like you imagine moving everything off the cloud. Like those are sticky, like ultra sticky ⁓ relationships. But I think being present and and another way to do that is being consistent. Like we do our weekly email at ⁓ three fifteen PM Central every Thursday, 'cause it Thursdays are a lot of times like dentists' Fridays, you know. You guys like what speaker-2: But I I'll get that. speaker-0: What are you in on a Friday afternoon? You're in a pretty good mood. Even if you're working Friday like me, you are in a decent mood on Thursday afternoon. Right. So we want to hit them in a good mood and then we also hit ⁓ on Sunday nights and they might have some time. ⁓ and then we release a pod every Friday because if dentists are off a lot of Fridays, they might actually get some time to consume your content or maybe they're driving. You can consume it while driving. you know, make making several posts a week so they know we're current, putting some variety in those posts, but and then like, you know, even reaching out via like a DM or something, it's it's all technically it's it's I guess it's not free per se, but it's like it's free to like send that extra message. You know what I'm saying? And and I think that's almost like relating to a life relationship too, whether it's business or life. it's not like a horrible thing by any means if you like happen to be the person who reaches out first or like more or something. I think it just everyone appreciates that ⁓ nine ninety-nine times out of a hundred, maybe. I think that that's how you 'cause like people are consuming so much content on a day to day to week week to week basis that they might even forget about you if you like met ⁓ once, you and then ⁓ like example, I I was just on a on a vacation and some work trips and stuff. And you know, I had a lot of like people I met and like moments I had that Now it's like the new reality being back here and like everything that happens on a day to day basis. So if you're everywhere, someone's just gonna keep you top of mind. Sure. Just like the dentists too. Yeah. That's why I love the billboards, man. If you catch those people on the commutes, you know, they see you twenty days a month. And then that's how you really beat Dr. Elliot Humiston in their heads. Yeah. speaker-2: Absolutely. What do we call this brand recognition, right, John? speaker-1: Yeah, brand recognition, PBR, positioning, branding, recognition, you know, whatever you want to call it. speaker-0: Yeah, when you're D to C or B to C you could really like do those billboards. Like B to B is a little tougher to make the cell, you know? speaker-1: I just gonna say like you're marketing to Dentists in in practices, right? Like they're not marketing to speaker-0: The whole Dentist is driving and on his Tesla. Yeah. You know, like actually looking up on the speaker-2: Yeah, not doing self drive mode. you know, I think we underestimate how creative these these industries are 'cause what we're really trying to do is is build confidence and appearance because like if I have a case that comes in, you know, ⁓ you know, I need a smile redesign or I need I want my smile to look really awesome, there's all sorts of physiological ⁓ And anatomical limitations to making that happen with different people. Not and there's also financial limitations to making that happen. And we've got to think outside the box. And a lot of the times it's having it's you have to get your lab technician involved. You have to have those conversations. And for me, if I'm looking at it, this like if I'm looking at, and I'm just gonna be blunt, ugly teeth. don't want to look at them. Because they're that ugly. So you have them in reaction. Yeah. Like, so how what can I do to make this smile better? Okay. Well, I can do a full set of veneers and a full like full mouth rehab and reestablish everything. And then the patient tells me that this is their budget. Well, now I have to sit back and go, okay, so we have to work within this. This is a limitation, but this isn't a full roadblock. And having a lab technician lean back on going, all right, man. So they're not gonna go for implants. So we can't like truly reestablish the posterior bite. We can't get that occlusion right. Can we do it with a partial denture? Cool. That's great. Yeah, we can. But now we have the the limitation of the anterior teeth not coming together and that's where we have to get creative again. Okay. Patients only got this much money. Can we do it in porcelain? Do we have to do it in composites? Like w now D printing now too? Like speaker-0: Whole Tetris thing you're it's like a puzzle you're putting together. Every single case. speaker-1: I've wanting to ask like what is the creative part of a lot of this process and now here you're talking about like you know, so I guess I'm curious, like, you know, I know quite a bit about Doctor Elliot and what they do to be creative there, but it's extending to you, right? Could you talk about I th speaker-2: I think a good place to hit on that would be the smile design, your graphic guides. Okay. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, I mean these ⁓ you know, these before and after photos I think are huge to ⁓ patient like give them any hope of investing that much money in that case you know. speaker-2: Specifically your smile designers, like what do they do in the in the lab? Like if I send something speaker-0: Yeah. They quarterback. They're when they're running out there in the huddle they're the they're the ones, they're the quarterback. They're calling the plays, they're looking at all the players saying, Here's here's what route you're running this time, you know, here's here's what I need from you, here's what I need from you and we're gonna get a touchdown. speaker-2: So to people who don't know what a smile designer does, there's either wax or there's digital smile designers. So like you guys have Yeah, yeah. speaker-0: We're talking like Connor, you're talking about okay, yeah. Well the original scan will come in the original impression and ⁓ be like where we're at and where we're going. Right. It's almost like if you ever see like the the garden in the spring season or something, and then you see it in the middle of the at the end of summer and it's just like a whole different picture, that's almost like what the smile designers do. Is they they make the teeth, you know, they might add some length at a time, if something was chipped, you know, maybe they would fill that out. and really just make the smiles beautiful, make ⁓ pretty. And ⁓ speaker-2: Digitally mocking these up for the dentist to see. speaker-0: Sometimes. Like sometimes if a dentist has a huge case, you might want to, you know, wax up and and that way you can show your patient. But but now Dr. Elliot, ⁓ speaking of this Las Vegas trip at Calibrate at the Smile Institute, there's crazy technology in these new Itero Lumina scanners that you upload either a photo or a video and you don't have to do anything. You know, it's like I mean like 'cause I get if you're a dentist in the chair speaker-2: I've used it. speaker-0: And you don't want to also be like a sales guy. You know what I'm saying? You're like, okay, my back's killing me. I'm hungry. I'm trying to take a couple of bites at lunch. I got a phone call I gotta make at lunch. I got the kids, blah blah and and then you you do your staff, like one of your staff is crying or something. You just you're just managing the whole operation. Do you really want to like take this moment in time to to sell on your on your patient who's in the chair and has no idea how much all this stuff costs 'cause it's not cheap to get a full new smile. And the cool part is about these things is your your staff can do it for you. Right. And and like the screen and like just that visual, much like a wax up, can get it can get it ⁓ over the finish line or at least get ⁓ to where they can ask the the experts' opinion. What do you think, Doc? Like, Hey brother, I think this would change your life. I think, you know, you're somebody who's on T V every day and if you had a perfect smile, how would that change things? speaker-2: Do it a lot more often. speaker-1: I do like that because that's marketing. At the end at at the end of the day, it's what does life look like with this and what does life look like without this? See and you're providing the visibility. speaker-0: Well bro, it's interesting not to get i get into it, but this whole like looks maxing trend, I don't know if this is like speaker-1: Looks maxing. I know about this. What is that? Dude, that's maxing your f look. speaker-0: It's taking over the internet. And and tell me more. So it's like I'm not s even super deep on this, but it's been so big in the internet where people have have ⁓ brought the term to everything. So like coffee maxing, you know like speaker-1: I I do drink a lot of it. speaker-0: And you're your dental maxing when you go into the dental office on Fridays, but like speaker-1: That's hilarious. speaker-0: This ⁓ looks maxing trend and what's making me think of when I first joined New Art in twenty twenty two, people were still blowing racki on veneers, you know, and like doing those cosmetic cases. Then you see like stocks like aligned technology at all time highs. Right. And now here we are several years later, people stopped having all this money everywhere and they they only do what they need to get done at the dental office or maybe some what their insurance covers is slightly above that. And so they the whole industry is ne and that affects Dental profits, it affects lab profits, it affects the entire industry's profits. the industries needed a catalyst to get this like cosmetic non dental items like back in the in the queue of of purchasing. And I wonder, you know, 'cause like back in the twenty twenty, twenty twenty one was like it was lot of like ⁓ you know, whether the end of a great bull market or like the stimulus checks or whatever it might have been. People had some extra cash. They're now now everyone's a little more strapped and so they don't have maybe the the extra ten or twenty Gs necessary to change their smile, change their life or whatever it might cost. ⁓ but they need a catalyst. And I'm wondering if this looks maxing trend could like catalyst the industry back towards the new speaker-2: It a bit of a boom. It could a speaker-1: I think there's a lot of emphasis on we'll just say maintenance for yourself. Right? Because like it's easier. Right. Well could you talk about that? Like it's easier now, it's speaker-2: sure and and when it comes down to it people don't like I'm not even finding my before and after photos to be a selling point really anymore. Like people want our people are emotionally invested. Like our our video testimonials, we aren't even putting the before and after on on some of these people. Like their teeth look good. That person looks happy. I want that. speaker-1: They're confident. They're right. They're speaking confidently. They they're refreshed. They're amazing. They have new outlook. They've removed barriers and walls that they felt kinda held them back. And it speaker-2: Th it's that confidence and that appearance of confidence translates into a lot of other things. Like you know, I'm not talking like I don't want this to come off as I'm like talking about manipulating someone emotionally, but when it comes to the marketing and I guess this whole new looks maxing thing, which I need to like look up, I guess. speaker-1: I knew about this by the way. speaker-2: ⁓ man. My wife, she's she's on TikTok a lot more. speaker-1: I have the young people. I was told the other so like I do have young people in my life that I'm constantly like, dude, help me with the lingo. So the other day my guy Colin was like, You gotta say like over stimmy versus overstimulated. And I was like speaker-2: God. I'm gonna do speaker-0: I usually say the overstimulate. speaker-1: I do. But sorry, good. Yeah, you're good. You're good. ⁓ speaker-2: Like this good conversation. ⁓ but like confidence in appearance is important. Like, I want to like you and I both are the fashion and like looking nice. We like dude, I wear my outfit for about 60 minutes a day. Like, yeah. I go into scrubs. Yeah. So I yeah, so I wear my outfit. They are very nice scrubs. Yeah. ⁓ but I wear my speaker-0: I guess because you got the frustrating speaker-1: Scrubs might I ask. speaker-2: Outfit all the way through morning huddle and like everyone else is like, why don't you just wear your like pajamas like the rest of us are doing? Like it's just not me. Like yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then I wear it home and like I I want to go out to dinner if I think my outfit's really good. Like, cause that makes me it gives me some emotional fulfillment to look nice, and it doesn't translate to everyone. speaker-0: Wagon. speaker-2: But I will never ever judge anyone who says, no, that's just not for me. But there's an emotional engagement is what I'm trying to say. Like if if confidence cu comes from that. And if people are feel that emotional motivation, that's when they start looking into the technical side of things. Okay, this guy, you know, I saw his b his testimonial. I've seen some of his before and afters. Now I want to go into the office and I wanna find out if it can be done. And my mistake early on was getting too much into the detail of how I get that done. And I think I got overwhelmed people. speaker-0: Speaking yeah, you gotta meet ⁓ at their language. speaker-2: And then a line came out with their new thing of the smile architect system where I can show a video or a picture of that person looking happy and confident. Right. And it's there's expectations and then there's reality. Like one of the things you and I have always talked about is every single like smile reveal that a dentist shows on Instagram where the person like brings the mirror up and it's like, ⁓ my God, like I look so good. It's almost always fake because they are numbed at a ⁓ and like they're speaker-1: Literally seen it. speaker-2: But they can't they can't move their mouth. They've been sitting in the chain f chair for three hours. Like no one does that. Yesterday we were trying to capture some like awesome before and afters, full arch hybrid implant retained dentures. Like we changed this dude's look. The guy doesn't know how to smile yet. Take his after photos that day he couldn't do it. He could laugh like bigger and brighter, but he like we're like smiling. speaker-0: So we tried to try speaker-2: Yeah. And I'm like, come back in two weeks when you've had those teeth and worked them out. Yeah. Like but what what gets you people to do what you want to do is the is is binding an emotional side to things. like I mean speaker-1: Yeah, right. speaker-2: Y you guys do a lot of different things. You realize quickly how confidence and appearance are connected, whether people will admit it or not. Like speaker-0: Yeah, man, I think a lot of people want to find that like love and so they think, How can I become more like attractive? Sure. And they they whether they admit it or not, they think about it when they go get these veneers. Yeah. And or invisalign and then now they're speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Now that it's going mainstream, this whole looks maxing thing is basically bringing that mainstream. It's like before people didn't want to admit it that they just wanted to like look better, you know? Like it was something that you might not have like, ⁓ yeah, I'm doing this to look better. It's like okay, you know, you might think that person might be shallow or something. even though secretly a lot of people would would be interested in the same thing and now that this thing's going man, it might be the catalyst the industry's been looking for. ⁓ problem is, is the kids. speaker-2: Catalyst is the right word. speaker-0: As we know, this is a young kid's trend. Doctor Elliot was not familiar with this on the show. How many kids have kind of racki or dough for whatever your preferred word is? ⁓ spend on, you know, eight veneers or four veneers. You know, it's like, man, even if I I I don't think I had that kind of racky back then. And it's like even if you did, you're probably gonna blow it on like a car or a vacation. speaker-2: No I'm too close to forty. Dude, 3D printing's gonna change all of that. I've done a couple of 3D printed veneer cases. We can do them much cheaper. ⁓ we can do them with minimal preps. And they're not the most realistic. They're not porcelain. speaker-0: So maybe a kid would be okay with that. As an adult you want something maybe a little more real, like that way people can't tell. The see, we always say the goal is to have it where no one even notices. No one can even tell because your smile is so realistic. speaker-2: Right. But that might not be what you're looking for when you're twenty. Yeah. Yeah. So so to me, I'm like these three D printed veneers changed that. speaker-0: Yeah. I just want like that Hollywood. You ever thought about becoming like the the area's like dentists for like TikTok influencers? Because I feel like like Sheboygan's so niche, bro. Cause you're too north of Milwaukee to for Milwaukee to really capture this market. Let's say let's say you're like the entire region, you could be that guy. And ⁓ I don't know. You know, I feel like all these TikTokers are thinking about looks max. speaker-2: Man. Yeah. speaker-1: so funny. Sorry. like, I mean, we we're to do that. Sure. We're we're making attempts to do that. But the the looks maxing thing, I think, is a category that like when we think about social media and like okay, if looks maxing is a thing, I would start thinking about that as hey, we're gonna try to have conversations with the twenty five and under. Right, because they're looks maxing, their Starbucks maxing, their liquid death maxing, they're skateboard maxing, right? Like they're speaker-0: Yeah. I don't know what they're called, but everyone's wearing speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Exactly. I thought So I was trained by this whole maxing thing by like ⁓ Okay, here's the deal. I wanna max people's confidence. I want confidence maxing. That's what I want. I want confidence maxing. So like in all of our worlds here and I think what's a skillboard. Yeah, dude, confidence. said could we do like speaker-2: That's what Drive down that way and you'll see my billboard where it talks about confidence. Yeah. speaker-1: But if we But if we if we have a campaign that was like acronyms, right? Like that spoke to a generation that like you know that like they it. tell you this guy, because I'm the one that thinks outside the box. That's who I am. No speaker-0: Back towards ⁓ Milwaukee. I'm super hyped. If y if your next round on the billboards was like teeth maxing. Like no, you had three of them, right? Like you had smile maxing, confidence maxing, do like cheat err the third one you could figure out like floss maxing. Cause like the kids love flossing, bro. ⁓ my god. Everyone to just joke about it and then you go viral. ⁓ speaker-1: Dude, you're that's no doubt. speaker-2: And we could keep this going forever and ever. But yeah, I get what you're saying. Like ⁓ my gosh. Dude, what we were talking about I mean it's Yeah. speaker-0: No other dentist can compete. She boygan Mac. speaker-2: Actually brought worst maxing out here, so speaker-0: You're at like the the town festival and you're Sheboygan maxing and next thing you know they just give this guy the key to the city. speaker-1: is beer maxing. ⁓ my god. Constantly. speaker-2: Okay. we're running out of time. But yeah, I think I I I think what we've been talking about about the creativity, about the things that go on behind the process, it it just all like ties together and like really illustrates that like the dentistry is this like really widespread net ⁓ of stuff going on about of relationships, of like having a work, a a that you can work with. you know. And and it's evolving. Like doing a like ⁓ minimally invasive like cosmetic rehab on like a young kid used to be extremely difficult. It had to be done through composites and things like that. Now we can do these 3D printed minimal prep veneers, make somebody's teeth look really good by utilizing the lab to get the smile design done, ⁓ bringing confidence to that kid. Cause when we're younger, our teeth are whiter, they're brighter, they don't look The same as you do when you're thirty. So when you hit your thirties you switch to porcelain or things like that. And again, that relationship needs to be really solid. But dude, I had a great time with this couple. Like I it it like we had to just ditch the outline at the end there 'cause the whole maxing thing just it does and I really speaker-0: Always happen. speaker-1: That was that the maxing things are the was the right pivot. speaker-2: The was the right pivot. speaker-0: What was el what else was on there? ⁓ speaker-1: Just a bunch of great stuff. Don't worry about it. Save it for next time. speaker-0: I basically what I do is I make I think you and I have talked about this maybe, but I make ⁓ like a bullet point list for my pods only if you need it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? 'Cause like usually the pod ends up going in a direction speaker-2: Yeah. Pretty much what we do. Yeah. I have like ⁓ topics one through five and five is the one I don't care if we cut or not. Like and that's kind of we didn't even get to it. We barely made it through four. speaker-1: We didn't get there. speaker-0: well I mean we'll do it again. speaker-1: We were podcast maxing. speaker-0: We were pod maxing, joke maxing. speaker-2: All right, man. Why don't you ⁓ hit us up with your social medias? speaker-0: Cool. ⁓ you can follow Life at New Art Dental. ⁓ A R T Yeah. And then ⁓ newartdental.com is the website. And yeah, check out the pod, confessions from a dental lab, right if you're done listening to this one. speaker-2: N U not N E. Yeah, specifically listen to my episodes. ⁓ push up those plates. speaker-0: Yeah, yep. Make sure to subscribe and leave that five star. And ⁓ if you need any help with your smile, give us a call in New Art Dental Lab and we'll we'll help you out. We'll we'll help you look smacked. Doctor Elliot. ⁓ speaker-2: All right. Thank you. Thanks, John. Thanks. ⁓ KJ. ⁓ this has been ⁓ the Death Before Decay podcast. yeah, if you haven't followed us, ⁓ please do and ⁓ subscribe. Thanks. speaker-1: Maxing, I like And cut. speaker-2: that was fun. speaker-0: Yeah, that was fun at the end, bro. Yeah. Well no, no, it was just because I feel like that it kinda tied everything together. Yeah. Like we're speaker-2: Just at the end.