Latest / Where We Rise / 10 | "Suffering in Silence" | Choosing Life

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10 | "Suffering in Silence" | Choosing Life · Where We Rise

• 0:00
  Khalila McCoy: Hey, I'm Khalila McCoy, and this is the podcast where we create safe spaces for the earth and authority and where we arrive.
• 0:11
  Khalila McCoy: Hi everyone, I'm so glad you are joining me today for this important conversation.
• 0:18
  Khalila McCoy: My guest, Earnest James, is going to be talking about his experience with suicidal ideation, a topic that is real, heavy, and far more common than many of us realize.
• 0:32
  Khalila McCoy: I'll be honest with you, before starting this podcast, suicidal ideation wasn't a term that I had heard of often.
• 0:40
  Khalila McCoy: I know people whose lives have been impacted by losing someone to suicide, but I had never had someone personally tell me they were considering ending their life.
• 0:51
  Khalila McCoy: As you know, these episodes are prerecorded.
• 0:54
  Khalila McCoy: And what I've learned is that this topic comes up more than I ever expected.
• 0:59
  Khalila McCoy: Not just in the conversations that you hear or you will hear, but often after I stop recording and the guests feel safe enough to share the parts that they've carried quietly.
• 1:10
  Khalila McCoy: And it truly breaks my heart to know how many people reach a point where life is so heavy that they can't see another way out.
• 1:18
  Khalila McCoy: Earnest is someone who found himself in that place.
• 1:23
  Khalila McCoy: He reached a moment where he questioned whether he wanted to continue living, but thankfully he found a reason to stay.
• 1:30
  Khalila McCoy: Today he's a podcaster and a mental health advocate who uses his voice to help others hold on, press forward, and realize the value in their own lives.
• 1:40
  Khalila McCoy: He shares his story and his mission with such honesty and strength, and he truly embodies what this show is all about.
• 1:49
  Khalila McCoy: Creating safe spaces, naming the vulnerable truth, listening louder, and choosing to rise.
• 1:56
  Khalila McCoy: While this is a heavy topic, don't reach for your tissues just yet.
• 2:01
  Khalila McCoy: Earnest is going to use an acronym, F-U-N, to help us understand how to get through this difficult time.
• 2:11
  Khalila McCoy: Let's listen in.
• 2:12
  Khalila McCoy: Earnest, how are you today?
• 2:16
  Khalila McCoy: I am good.
• 2:17
  Khalila McCoy: I am good.
• 2:18
  Khalila McCoy: Thank you for having me.
• 2:19
  Khalila McCoy: I really appreciate it.
• 2:20
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah, thank you for coming.
• 2:22
  Khalila McCoy: I'm so glad to have you on the show.
• 2:23
  Khalila McCoy: I've checked out some of your content.
• 2:25
  Khalila McCoy: You and I have been talking before we hit record.
• 2:28
  Khalila McCoy: Um, and I know you have a lot of great things to say, and you just have a great personality and so fun already.
• 2:34
  Khalila McCoy: So I'm excited to kind of dive into our conversation.
• 2:37
  Khalila McCoy: But before we do, go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 2:41
  Earnest James: First of all, my name is Earnest James.
• 2:43
  Earnest James: And again, I want to say thank you for having me.
• 2:45
  Earnest James: Because, you know, I would say as a as a podcaster myself, it's always good to be on this side of the mic when all I've done, all I gotta do is talk.
• 2:53
  Earnest James: You know what I'm saying?
• 2:54
  Earnest James: And so I love that.
• 2:56
  Earnest James: Um, but I am Earnest James.
• 2:58
  Earnest James: I am a mental health advocate.
• 3:01
  Earnest James: I am a speaker, a podcaster, an author.
• 3:05
  Earnest James: Um, but at my core, I'm just a person that loves people, right?
• 3:10
  Earnest James: And my mission is to help people to deal, heal, and fulfill, to deal with your problems, to heal from the pain, and to fulfill your purpose.
• 3:19
  Earnest James: And so that's kind of my mission.
• 3:21
  Earnest James: And I kind of got my missions from my from my own life, you know, my own life struggles and things that I was going through at the beginning of my journey a couple years ago.
• 3:32
  Earnest James: And I kind of started everything with the podcast.
• 3:35
  Earnest James: And um I have two podcasts that I'm currently running right now, which is the Deal to Heal with E.
• 3:43
  Earnest James: James podcast.
• 3:44
  Earnest James: That podcast is on 200 and something episodes at this point.
• 3:48
  Earnest James: Um, and then I have a podcast called Girl Dad Discussions because I am a girl dad.
• 3:53
  Earnest James: Um, my daughter is my only biological child.
• 3:56
  Earnest James: She's 22, she'll be 23 this year.
• 3:59
  Earnest James: Um, but um, yeah, so you know, just podcasting and speaking and you know, uh doing workshops and things of that nature just to help people.
• 4:11
  Earnest James: So that's me in a nutshell.
• 4:13
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 4:13
  Khalila McCoy: We're gonna talk about one of the more serious topics today about the idea of taking your own life.
• 4:21
  Khalila McCoy: And this is something that I've seen you talk about on your show.
• 4:25
  Khalila McCoy: I know you've done talks about that.
• 4:27
  Khalila McCoy: Why have you chosen to share about this topic and why do you want to reach out to people about this?
• 4:35
  Earnest James: So I actually did my my first TEDx talk uh about it.
• 4:40
  Earnest James: Um, I won't say it was two years ago.
• 4:42
  Earnest James: Um, but because I lived through it, right?
• 4:46
  Earnest James: And I made it, I made it through it.
• 4:48
  Earnest James: You know what I'm saying?
• 4:49
  Earnest James: Because um when you start to have suicidal audiations, that's a dark space that you're in that you really don't see no way out of.
• 4:58
  Earnest James: And a lot of people don't make it out of that space.
• 5:02
  Earnest James: And so being a person that made it out and being a man that made it out, um knowing it uh it's a couple of reasons why I I talk about it so much now.
• 5:14
  Earnest James: Number one, being a man that made it out.
• 5:18
  Earnest James: Number two, knowing that men don't talk about it, you know, or don't talk about our struggles as a whole, but definitely don't talk about those things.
• 5:26
  Earnest James: And then I'm a bricklayer by trade, right?
• 5:29
  Earnest James: And so the construction industry, what I found out afterwards, and I started doing some research myself about it, is the construction industry is in within the top 10 industries of suicides.
• 5:43
  Khalila McCoy: Wow, I had no idea.
• 5:45
  Earnest James: Yeah, and and I didn't either.
• 5:47
  Earnest James: And I've been a I've been a bricklayer for 20 something years too.
• 5:50
  Earnest James: You know what I'm saying?
• 5:51
  Earnest James: What is the reason behind that?
• 5:53
  Earnest James: So I think it's a couple reasons.
• 5:56
  Earnest James: I think it's a couple of reasons.
• 5:57
  Earnest James: One, um, because I think mainly because it's a male-dominated um career path, right?
• 6:06
  Earnest James: So when you're on a job site and you're in a uh or any space, but definitely on a job site where it's 90% men, 95% men, you know, nobody wants to show weakness.
• 6:18
  Earnest James: You know, everybody wants to, you know, hold safe space for one another and and you know, be the strong men.
• 6:24
  Earnest James: And, you know, it takes a uh high level of vulnerability to admit some of the things that that you're dealing with, some of the things that you're going through.
• 6:34
  Earnest James: And because we're always trying to save face, we don't want to admit it.
• 6:38
  Earnest James: You know, we don't want to talk about it.
• 6:40
  Earnest James: And so we suffer in silence until we get to the point where we can't take it anymore, and then you know, somebody takes their own life, you know.
• 6:49
  Earnest James: And so I think that's one of the the main reasons, you know, why it's so high in the in the industry.
• 6:56
  Khalila McCoy: So go back a little bit and tell us about your story.
• 7:00
  Khalila McCoy: You said you lived through it and you talked about it being a dark time.
• 7:04
  Khalila McCoy: So do you remember the time like before the darkness kind of set and where were you in your life?
• 7:12
  Earnest James: Oh, definitely, definitely.
• 7:13
  Earnest James: So uh I would say if you if you met me some years ago, um, you would have met me at a time when I was living the American dream, right?
• 7:22
  Earnest James: I had my dream job, I had a truck, I had a motorcycle, uh, we had bought our first house.
• 7:29
  Earnest James: Uh, me and my wife at the time, she had her car that she liked, you know, she had a good job, I had a good job.
• 7:35
  Earnest James: We were in our early 20s, you know what I mean.
• 7:37
  Earnest James: We had just had my daughter, so my daughter was uh born.
• 7:41
  Earnest James: We were, we were, everything was going good, you know, at the time.
• 7:45
  Earnest James: Um then things started to change, right?
• 7:48
  Earnest James: So we the the uh country went through a recession, you know, and I'm in the construction field.
• 7:54
  Earnest James: So when the things slow down, you know, of course, construction slows down.
• 7:58
  Earnest James: So that started to affect our home, you know, financially.
• 8:03
  Earnest James: And that puts a lot of stress on the marriage, especially, you know, number one, we were young, right, and we were early in our our marriage, a couple years in, but still early in our marriage, you know, when we started having having those issues.
• 8:16
  Earnest James: Um and then just other things started compelling at the same time.
• 8:20
  Earnest James: So now you got, you know, uh things are tight with the with the money and the finances part, you know.
• 8:28
  Earnest James: Then, you know, things start happening between me and my wife and I.
• 8:31
  Earnest James: And so now we're not indefinite, definitely in a good space.
• 8:36
  Earnest James: And then her mom died.
• 8:39
  Earnest James: And my wife was the only child, you know, so it was always just her and her mom.
• 8:44
  Earnest James: And her mom, me and her mom had a very great relationship relationship.
• 8:51
  Earnest James: My mom was a beautiful person.
• 8:52
  Earnest James: Um, but we had our own relationship.
• 8:54
  Earnest James: Like we would go out together, we would go out to dinner and you know, just hang out together, just the two of us.
• 8:59
  Earnest James: You know, and so when she died, that took a toll on me and my wife.
• 9:05
  Earnest James: You know, it definitely took a toll on her because again, she was the only child, and I always had being been just her and her mom.
• 9:11
  Earnest James: And even then, they worked together.
• 9:14
  Earnest James: So even the last couple years, they wrote to work together and all of those things.
• 9:18
  Earnest James: So it was hard on her as well.
• 9:21
  Earnest James: Um, and so dealing with that, and then three years after she died, then my mom died.
• 9:29
  Earnest James: So you got death, divorce, the death of uh my mother-in-law, then the death of my mom, which added to a depression.
• 9:41
  Earnest James: Yes, and so everything at that time really just felt like everything was falling apart, you know, and it really wasn't nothing I can do.
• 9:50
  Earnest James: You know, it was like everything is falling apart.
• 9:53
  Earnest James: And so that's when you start getting into that deep space, that deep hole, and you've trying to figure out like what can I do?
• 10:01
  Earnest James: You know what I'm saying?
• 10:02
  Earnest James: Like, and then when you've realized there's nothing you can do, you know what I mean?
• 10:06
  Earnest James: Like you can't, I couldn't make the jobs come back, I couldn't fix my marriage at that point.
• 10:11
  Earnest James: It was it was a done deal.
• 10:13
  Earnest James: Couldn't bring my mother-in-law back, couldn't bring my mom back, you know.
• 10:16
  Earnest James: So it was like there was nothing I could do to change my situation.
• 10:20
  Earnest James: And so when you get into that space, that's when you start having the suicide audience because it's like, you know, like what's the use?
• 10:29
  Earnest James: Or yeah, you start feeling hopeless and and helpless because there's nothing you can do.
• 10:35
  Earnest James: And then you start having those thoughts of, you know what, things might be better if I wasn't here.
• 10:41
  Earnest James: Because by that time I had separated from my wife.
• 10:45
  Earnest James: Um, and so I was staying with one of my sisters, and you know, again, work has slowed down, so I was working a little bit, but not making a lot of money, just a whole lot of things going on.
• 10:56
  Earnest James: And it was just like now I feel like I'm a burden to my family now, and you know, all of those things started kicking in.
• 11:02
  Earnest James: And so I started having those suicidal ideations.
• 11:07
  Khalila McCoy: You talked about like, you know, as men, you keep that in.
• 11:09
  Khalila McCoy: And did you tell anybody how you were feeling?
• 11:12
  Khalila McCoy: Did you voice like the desperation of like I need to figure out where my life is going?
• 11:18
  Earnest James: No, I I didn't.
• 11:19
  Earnest James: And and that's another reason why I talk about it so much now, because once I started, when I started my podcast and I started talking about it on my podcast, I got eight siblings, right?
• 11:31
  Earnest James: I got eight siblings, five sisters.
• 11:34
  Earnest James: After after one of my podcasts that I did, that I was talking about it, my sister called me, my baby sister called me.
• 11:42
  Earnest James: And she was like, How is it you went through all of that and none of us know?
• 11:46
  Earnest James: Like it's eight of us, like none of us know, you know, and I was like, We're because we we're not having the conversations, you know what I mean?
• 11:54
  Earnest James: Like even when we check on each other and we say, How you doing, you really don't ask like how you we, you know what I'm saying?
• 12:00
  Earnest James: We you say, How you doing?
• 12:01
  Earnest James: Oh, I'm good, whatever.
• 12:02
  Earnest James: You don't, yeah, and we don't follow it up like no, but how you really doing, you know, to really press like no, I really want to know and make sure you're okay, you know, and so which is something I do now, but at that time I wasn't, I wasn't doing it, and and they weren't doing it either, you know, and so I'm suffering in silence, like so many other people, you know.
• 12:24
  Earnest James: And so, um, but what happened, the turning point was again, I had my daughter.
• 12:32
  Earnest James: My daughter was my daughter's my only biological child.
• 12:35
  Earnest James: She probably was like seven around this time, she was young, and we're at the house.
• 12:42
  Earnest James: Uh, we're at the house one day and she's playing in the front yard.
• 12:45
  Earnest James: And I got the sprinklers and I got the little kitty pool out, and she's running and it's freaking, you know, just playing, and I'm sitting on the porch watching her, and she's playing in the water, you know, running back and forth, and then she stops and she runs over to me on the porch.
• 12:59
  Earnest James: So when she gets to me, she starts crying.
• 13:02
  Earnest James: And I said, Why are you crying?
• 13:04
  Earnest James: Like nothing, nothing happened, you know.
• 13:06
  Earnest James: And she said, I miss my grandmothers.
• 13:09
  Earnest James: Because at this time, both of her grandmothers had died.
• 13:12
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 13:13
  Earnest James: And it was in that moment that I kind of had a epiphany, like my daughter, as young as she is, still is aware enough to notice that both of her grandmothers is not here.
• 13:31
  Earnest James: Even in the midst of her playing, like I said, she was having fun and just enjoying herself for that thought to come to her at that time.
• 13:40
  Earnest James: And I was like, you know, what will happen to her if I'm not here?
• 13:44
  Earnest James: Because my daughter was a dead girl, she's still a dead girl.
• 13:46
  Earnest James: But I'm like, what will happen to her if I'm not here?
• 13:49
  Earnest James: You know, if she loses me too, if she's already feeling this way about her grandmothers, who we spent a lot of a lot more time with her grandmother, her mother's side, more so than uh my mom.
• 14:01
  Earnest James: But even with that, she still recognized that both of them were not there.
• 14:05
  Earnest James: Right.
• 14:06
  Earnest James: And so I'm like, what would happen to her if me, who she spends every day with, you know what I'm saying?
• 14:12
  Khalila McCoy: What would happen to her if I'm not here?
• 14:14
  Earnest James: Yeah.
• 14:14
  Earnest James: And so that was the catalyst that kind of said, you know what, if for no other reason I gotta stay here for her.
• 14:22
  Earnest James: And so that was a thought that kind of made me start, you know, kind of turning my mind around, like, all right, I gotta figure this thing out.
• 14:30
  Earnest James: You know, and then with some um some friends and family and and different things, um, I was able to come come out of that.
• 14:38
  Earnest James: And I actually shared, or when I do share how I came out of it, I always say I had fun with it, right?
• 14:46
  Earnest James: And so fun is an acronym, uh, and it stands for focus, unite, and normalize.
• 14:53
  Earnest James: So when I was focusing on myself, right, I couldn't, I couldn't help myself because when I was focusing on myself, everything that I was looking at, I couldn't change.
• 15:08
  Earnest James: You know, again, I couldn't change my divorce, I couldn't change my mom coming back, I couldn't bring my mother-in-law back, you know, none of that.
• 15:14
  Earnest James: And so when I had the situation with my daughter, that changed my focus.
• 15:20
  Earnest James: So I took the focus on myself and I started to focus on her, right?
• 15:23
  Earnest James: And so everything became, I gotta stay here to make sure she's good, you know.
• 15:28
  Earnest James: And so I had this conversation with a therapist, and the therapist was like, Well, Earnest, we actually teach people to focus on themselves and so they can work on, you know, whatever.
• 15:38
  Earnest James: And I said, I always say, look, I'm not a therapist.
• 15:41
  Earnest James: So I can tell you what's right or what's wrong.
• 15:43
  Earnest James: I can tell you what works.
• 15:44
  Khalila McCoy: Tell you what worked for me, right?
• 15:46
  Earnest James: So I always tell people whether you have to focus on yourself or focus on, you know, a person or purpose that you care about to give you that, you know, focus on those things and put your energy there in order to help you to motivate you to stay and hang on for another day, then that's what you do.
• 16:05
  Earnest James: So whatever you got to focus on, focus on that.
• 16:07
  Earnest James: Yeah, right?
• 16:08
  Earnest James: And so the you stands for unite.
• 16:11
  Earnest James: Unite with like-minded people.
• 16:14
  Earnest James: And so when I, after my mom passed, I started taking bereavement.
• 16:20
  Earnest James: Uh, I joined a bereavement support group.
• 16:23
  Earnest James: And I went there and I did my time there, uh, which was like a couple weeks as far as my my sessions were, but I loved it so much that I stayed there and I became a volunteer and I volunteered for over a year.
• 16:40
  Earnest James: And then when I left, I left there and I started a nonprofit called Anne Christine Charities, and is after my mom, Christine was my mother-in-law.
• 16:52
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 16:52
  Earnest James: So I named Anne Christine Charities, and what I did was to bring uh bereavement support to our community, you know, because even while I was there, um during the time I was volunteering with the bereavement support, there was only one other uh black family that came through there.
• 17:12
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 17:12
  Earnest James: Right?
• 17:13
  Earnest James: And so I was a I was a minister at the time too.
• 17:16
  Earnest James: And so I'm like, I know it's not because we're not dying, because I'm a minister at the church.
• 17:21
  Earnest James: We haven't friends all the time.
• 17:23
  Earnest James: You know what I'm saying?
• 17:24
  Earnest James: And I'm like, I know it's not because we don't need the support, you know.
• 17:29
  Earnest James: It may be just because we don't know about it, or maybe it wasn't offered or whatever.
• 17:33
  Earnest James: And so I started the nonprofit to, you know, bring it to you know the community and bring it, make, you know, make awareness about it.
• 17:41
  Earnest James: Um so that came with the the you again to unite with like-minded people, right?
• 17:48
  Earnest James: So I joined that that bereavement, um, that bereavement support group because we were all there because of loss.
• 17:55
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 17:56
  Earnest James: You know, some some of the people were there had lost children, some of the people had lost spouses, you know, some of the people like myself had lost parents, you know.
• 18:04
  Earnest James: So we always there for different reasons, but um, or should maybe say different people, but for the same reason.
• 18:11
  Earnest James: We all were dealing with loss.
• 18:13
  Earnest James: You know, and so when you find your, you know, like-minded people, you're able to communicate, you know, they are able to understand.
• 18:20
  Earnest James: They really understand, yeah.
• 18:21
  Earnest James: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:22
  Earnest James: So I would say, again, the F stands for focus, the U stands for unite, and then the N stands for normalize.
• 18:32
  Earnest James: So one of the terms that I learned when I was in um bereavement is the new normal.
• 18:39
  Earnest James: And what the new normal stands for is things will never be this way that it was, right?
• 18:45
  Earnest James: It'll never be the same.
• 18:47
  Earnest James: Um, or it never it will never be quote unquote normal as it was, but now you have a new normal.
• 18:56
  Earnest James: You know, so my new normal now was I may not, you know, I can't call my mom, you know, just because I feel like it.
• 19:04
  Earnest James: You know what I mean?
• 19:05
  Earnest James: I can't go out for dinner with my mother-in-law anymore, you know, all you know, different things like that.
• 19:10
  Earnest James: But this is my new normal.
• 19:13
  Earnest James: So if I accept that this is the new normal, then I can find the happiness and you know, the life and the joy that still exists in this normal.
• 19:22
  Earnest James: There's there is definitely still some um some loss that I have to deal with.
• 19:28
  Earnest James: But even in the midst of that loss, there is still some memories, there's still some joy, and still some connections, you know, that's still vibrant in this new normal.
• 19:38
  Earnest James: And so when we accept that new normal, then we can accept accept our losses, but also accept the joy and the life that we still have to live.
• 19:46
  Earnest James: Yeah, it's like you find a new purpose.
• 19:49
  Earnest James: Yes.
• 19:50
  Earnest James: It's an acronym which is fun and it's focus, unite, and normalize.
• 19:55
  Earnest James: And so that's how I kind of came out of it.
• 19:59
  Khalila McCoy: Thinking about those three, focusing on yourself or someone else you picked, your daughter was your focus, the uniting with a group of people, and then normalizing.
• 20:10
  Khalila McCoy: Which one of those you felt do you feel like was the hardest for you to kind of work through or you might still be working through?
• 20:19
  Earnest James: Um it probably would be the normalizing because when you're dealing with grief, um there's a thing that they call the grief wheel, right?
• 20:32
  Earnest James: And it kind of dissects.
• 20:34
  Earnest James: If you think of a a pie, and so you have a circle of pie, and when you cut pie, you cut it so it's like the little triangle-shaped pieces, right?
• 20:43
  Khalila McCoy: Right?
• 20:44
  Earnest James: So when you think of a wheel, think of the grief wheel like that, and each slice is a different emotion that you that you deal with when you're dealing with your grief, right?
• 20:54
  Earnest James: It might be anger, it might be sadness, it might be, you know, joy sometimes, you know.
• 21:00
  Earnest James: So it's just an array of of emotions.
• 21:03
  Earnest James: And the thing with the grief wheel is the fact that it is a wheel.
• 21:08
  Earnest James: So it never stops turning, right?
• 21:11
  Earnest James: And so even as you go along, once you're once you, if you think of a hamster, right?
• 21:17
  Earnest James: A hamster and he jumps on his hamster wheel and he's running.
• 21:21
  Earnest James: He's running as fast as he can and is it's turning.
• 21:24
  Earnest James: So if he slows down, it slows down.
• 21:27
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 21:27
  Earnest James: But as long as he's on it, it never stops moving.
• 21:31
  Earnest James: So that's kind of how grief is.
• 21:33
  Earnest James: Once you enter grief, it's that same way.
• 21:35
  Earnest James: It never stops rolling.
• 21:37
  Earnest James: So it don't matter how long is you know you've been grieving, you know, how it don't matter how long uh how long ago the loss may have been, it only takes the right day, the right sound, the right smell.
• 21:52
  Khalila McCoy: You know what I'm saying?
• 21:53
  Earnest James: That whatever that thing is that can trigger that memory of that loss, right?
• 21:58
  Earnest James: Right.
• 21:58
  Earnest James: And then it there.
• 21:59
  Earnest James: Depend on how much you've processed and how much you've kind of healed with it, not from it, but with it, it'll shows it'll depend on how you react to it.
• 22:11
  Earnest James: Right.
• 22:12
  Earnest James: So I can tell you now, I can talk about my mom, like we're having this conversation right now.
• 22:18
  Earnest James: And I can talk about my mom and I'm okay.
• 22:21
  Earnest James: Right.
• 22:21
  Earnest James: You know, um, but then there's some days, I I'll tell you one thing that happened, right?
• 22:26
  Earnest James: After my mom passed, here in Chicago, I'm in the Chicagoland area, there was a big scandal at this cemetery that's out here um where they were stacking bodies, you know, they would do all kinds of crazy stuff, right?
• 22:40
  Earnest James: And a lot of my family members, including my grandmother, is buried in that in that cemetery.
• 22:49
  Earnest James: And so when it hit the news and it was all on the news and everything, and I'm watching, I'm like, man, this is crazy.
• 22:54
  Earnest James: And I'm like, let me call my mama and tell mom, hey mom, you need to go check on you know grandma's grave and things of that nature.
• 23:01
  Earnest James: And I go to call her and I'm like, oh wait, she's not here.
• 23:05
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 23:06
  Earnest James: You know what I'm saying?
• 23:07
  Earnest James: And so it just those little things, you know, as you heal, you kind of forget because you kind of, you know, you're kind of going on your day-to-day, and then it'll just be like one little thing that can trigger it, you know, like a memory or or anything, or just a thought, or something like that.
• 23:22
  Earnest James: And then just like, oh, right.
• 23:24
  Khalila McCoy: You know what I'm saying?
• 23:26
  Earnest James: Um, but I'm in a space now where, you know, I don't get triggered like that.
• 23:31
  Earnest James: You know what I'm saying?
• 23:32
  Earnest James: I I'm I'm in a healthy space, or I can have conversations and things, and it it doesn't, you know, but there are times when, you know, just could be like her birthday or Mother's Day or something like that, where then you start thinking about it.
• 23:46
  Earnest James: And uh I don't I probably wouldn't say I cry, but it's definitely have its moments.
• 23:54
  Earnest James: Brings you some sadness.
• 23:56
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 23:56
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 23:57
  Khalila McCoy: You know, so you talked about like healing and starting to forget, and obviously you have kind of moved away from the idea of taking away taking your life.
• 24:07
  Khalila McCoy: So do you ever look back and remember how you felt at that time when you were seriously considering taking your life?
• 24:15
  Khalila McCoy: And then now at this point, how how do you look at that person?
• 24:19
  Khalila McCoy: Are you like, what were you thinking?
• 24:21
  Khalila McCoy: Like you should have talked, you should have done this, or is it just more like a kind of like a sorrow for who you were then?
• 24:29
  Earnest James: Well, you know what?
• 24:30
  Earnest James: I I look at it, I look at it from not sorrow, but I look at it as a learning, as a learning space, right?
• 24:39
  Earnest James: Because I know how I felt at that time.
• 24:44
  Earnest James: And I know that there are people that's feeling the same way that I felt.
• 24:50
  Khalila McCoy: Yes.
• 24:51
  Earnest James: And so I began to look at it as in, you know, why didn't I say something?
• 24:57
  Earnest James: Or what were the reasons why, you know what I mean?
• 25:00
  Earnest James: And so I look at it as a learning space because now I I'm going to say something.
• 25:06
  Earnest James: Right.
• 25:07
  Earnest James: You know, that's why I talk about it so much now because I want other people to be comfortable talking about it.
• 25:14
  Earnest James: And I want to also provide the space for other people to talk about it, right?
• 25:19
  Earnest James: And so I think about all the things I was going through.
• 25:23
  Earnest James: And so when I think about, you know, having a conversation with people and they're feeling depressed or whatever, you know, and you know, I just ask them, How you doing?
• 25:33
  Earnest James: You know, and then give people a chance to talk.
• 25:35
  Earnest James: Because a lot of times people just want to talk.
• 25:37
  Earnest James: They just want somebody to talk to, somebody to give them the invitation to let them know it's okay, right?
• 25:43
  Earnest James: And so I talked about um number one, as men not having a conversation like that, right?
• 25:51
  Earnest James: And then being in the construction field is another reason why we don't necessarily talk about it, right?
• 25:58
  Earnest James: So this was uh a couple months ago.
• 26:01
  Earnest James: I was on a job, and it was me and a laborer that I was working with.
• 26:06
  Earnest James: Generally, we work in a group, so it's like a group of us, right?
• 26:10
  Earnest James: But this particular day, it was just two of us working on this project together.
• 26:14
  Earnest James: So it was just the two of us, me and the laborer.
• 26:16
  Earnest James: And I had worked around him, but had never worked directly with him before.
• 26:21
  Earnest James: And so it's just the two of us this day.
• 26:23
  Earnest James: And so we're talking while we're working, and he's like, Well, what did you do over the weekend?
• 26:27
  Earnest James: And that that past weekend, I had a speaking engagement, so I had one and spoke and everything.
• 26:32
  Earnest James: And so I was like, Yeah, I had a speaking engagement and you know, talking about it.
• 26:35
  Earnest James: And he was like, Oh, you're a speaker?
• 26:37
  Earnest James: I said, Yeah, I'm a speaker.
• 26:38
  Earnest James: I got a podcast, you know, and he was like, Well, what is your podcast about?
• 26:42
  Earnest James: And so as I was telling him what the podcast is about, I said, Well, my guests and I talk about topics and ways to help us to heal in every area of our lives.
• 26:53
  Earnest James: So I talk about things that I've been through, divorce, depression, suicide audiations, things like that.
• 26:59
  Earnest James: And for things that I haven't been through, then I bring on other, you know, uh speakers or specialists to talk about those things, all in hopes to leave the audience with some tips and tools so that if they're dealing with something like that, that they have some tools to help them to get through.
• 27:16
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 27:16
  Earnest James: And so when I said that, he was like, Oh, you know, um, you talk about suicide auditation.
• 27:21
  Earnest James: I said, Yeah, so I, you know, told him my story or whatever.
• 27:24
  Earnest James: So when I told him my story, it opened up that space for him to share his story.
• 27:31
  Earnest James: And so he started talking to me about the fact that he had had suicidal audiations before as well.
• 27:40
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 27:41
  Earnest James: And not only had he had them before, but his father had suicidal audience before.
• 27:47
  Earnest James: Um, but to the point that his father actually took his own life.
• 27:51
  Earnest James: And he was the one that found his father's body.
• 27:55
  Earnest James: And so we're having this conversation, you know, we probably talked about, you know, uh half an hour or so, and then it was time for us to go to break.
• 28:05
  Earnest James: And so we go to break, and uh we come back.
• 28:08
  Earnest James: When we come back, you know, he comes up to me, he says, Earnest, you know what?
• 28:12
  Earnest James: He said, You're the you're a cool guy to talk to, because the conversation we just had, I never told anybody.
• 28:19
  Earnest James: Wow, you know, and so that's why I'm passionate about it.
• 28:23
  Earnest James: Yeah, that's why I can talk about it.
• 28:25
  Earnest James: Because how long had he been holding that in?
• 28:29
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 28:29
  Earnest James: You know what I'm saying?
• 28:30
  Earnest James: How long had he been probably still suffering just with the thoughts and the memories because he can't share it with anybody?
• 28:38
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 28:38
  Earnest James: You know what I'm saying?
• 28:39
  Earnest James: And so by me being vulnerable and saying this is this is my story and telling my story and being open about it, it opened up the door to give him an opportunity to share.
• 28:49
  Earnest James: You know what I mean?
• 28:50
  Earnest James: And so, you know, just by him being having the opportunity to share, you know, who knows how much that might have lifted that off of his back.
• 28:59
  Earnest James: Right, you know, so that's why I'm so vocal about it now.
• 29:03
  Earnest James: That's why I talk about it, I'm really open about it, you know, and I and I take in consideration, again, you know, I take in consideration the space that I was in and trying to make sure that I'm aware of those symptoms.
• 29:19
  Earnest James: You know what I mean?
• 29:20
  Earnest James: So when I see people that's in that space, when I see people that might be going through a divorce, when I see people who may have lost somebody, you know.
• 29:28
  Earnest James: Um, just yesterday, actually, I was uh talking to another gentleman on the job, and he was talking about some losses that he had, you know, and he just kind of you know was taking that moment just to talk about some different things.
• 29:42
  Earnest James: And he he talks a lot, you know what I'm saying?
• 29:45
  Earnest James: And so a lot of people on the job be like, oh man, why are you talking to that guy?
• 29:48
  Earnest James: Like he don't shut up, you know.
• 29:50
  Earnest James: Right.
• 29:50
  Earnest James: And but one of the things I realized is a lot of times people just want to be heard.
• 29:55
  Khalila McCoy: Yes, they do.
• 29:56
  Earnest James: And they just want, you know, is people that talk a lot sometimes is holding a lot in.
• 30:02
  Earnest James: So they're talking a lot, but they're not really talking about things that matter.
• 30:06
  Earnest James: So when you give them opportunity to talk about things they that matter, then it takes on a different type of conversation.
• 30:13
  Earnest James: Yes.
• 30:13
  Earnest James: And so he was talking about, you know, some losses that he had of losing his his grandfather and losing his uh his aunt and losing, you know, like two of his best friends.
• 30:22
  Earnest James: One of them, I think he said one of them overdosed and one of them was murdered.
• 30:27
  Earnest James: You know, and so just having them, again, just giving people the space to say how they feel and having to listen and hear and giving giving them someone to talk to, you know, you never know how much of a difference that makes in somebody else's life.
• 30:43
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 30:43
  Earnest James: Which is why I love podcasting, because I love having these conversations.
• 30:46
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 30:47
  Earnest James: You know, because when we when we are able to have the conversation, then those who may not be uh may not have the opportunity to have the conversation, they at least get to hear the conversation.
• 31:00
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 31:00
  Earnest James: And then help them process it even in their mind, where they may be having a conversation with us.
• 31:06
  Earnest James: I mean, we can't hear them, but they're like telling us their story, you know, like, yeah, I'm saying, and and I dealt with this, you know what I mean?
• 31:13
  Earnest James: But they it just opens up the door for that healing to take place because now people have a safe space to admit how they feel and admit that what they're dealing with.
• 31:25
  Earnest James: And you know, once they admit it, then we they also can also can look for the help that they need, you know, and not feel so isolated that they don't want to even ask for help.
• 31:36
  Khalila McCoy: Mm-hmm.
• 31:36
  Khalila McCoy: I agree.
• 31:37
  Khalila McCoy: You're making me my heart so happy as you talk about this, because this is honestly what my podcast is all about.
• 31:43
  Khalila McCoy: It's just being heard, hearing a story, understanding that when you hear that you are not alone, somebody else is going through it, there's something on the other side of it, or somebody might still be walking through it, but you can continue and you can make it through.
• 31:58
  Khalila McCoy: So this makes me so excited just hearing that you are a person who's allowing people to have that space because I think it's so important.
• 32:06
  Khalila McCoy: I love that, you know, as a man you're doing that.
• 32:09
  Khalila McCoy: I love that as a black man you're doing that.
• 32:10
  Khalila McCoy: We know in the black community that space is not always available because there is so much trauma and hurt and pain there, and just you know, the mental health understanding.
• 32:21
  Khalila McCoy: Again, because of this situation that a lot of people are in, it doesn't happen.
• 32:26
  Khalila McCoy: So this just makes me so proud and so happy that you know to see you doing that and just being so open.
• 32:33
  Khalila McCoy: I do have a question for you, and I know everybody's a little bit different, but when you have somebody who does share such a deep story with you, like what would your suggestion be?
• 32:43
  Khalila McCoy: You know, because some people I feel like shy away when someone says something serious because they don't know how to respond or they feel uncomfortable themselves.
• 32:49
  Khalila McCoy: How do you get past that in yourself, obviously honoring who you are, but also give that person room to share what they need to say?
• 32:59
  Earnest James: Well, I think the the first thing that we have to do is realize that especially in those moments, it's not about us.
• 33:06
  Earnest James: Right.
• 33:06
  Earnest James: And I think when we start thinking about how uncomfortable we are, then we we start being that robot that people, which becomes one of the reasons why people don't share.
• 33:18
  Earnest James: You know, so if if if I take a moment to think about how uncomfortable I am about hearing someone else's story, how uncomfortable must they be living it?
• 33:30
  Earnest James: Right.
• 33:31
  Earnest James: Wow.
• 33:32
  Earnest James: So if I'm able to think that in the moment, like let me put myself aside real quick, because if they're if they're number one, even willing to have the conversation, then I need to make sure that I'm willing to at least listen.
• 33:46
  Earnest James: And that's all you have to do.
• 33:48
  Earnest James: Because like I said, a lot of times people just want to listen, you know, they just want somebody to listen, you know, and and sympathize with what they're what they're dealing with, you know.
• 33:56
  Earnest James: And even if you could you could just say, I don't have the answers, you know, but I'm here to listen.
• 34:02
  Earnest James: I'm here to, you know, to sit with you even after you share it, and now you just want to sit in silence and and you know, kind of gather yourself.
• 34:10
  Earnest James: I'm here to sit in the silence with you.
• 34:12
  Earnest James: You know, so I think that the biggest part is us just being there to be a listen in the ear and you know, to walk alongside them, you know.
• 34:21
  Earnest James: Don't try to fix it for them, don't try to, you know, uh make them feel bad about it, but allow them to have their experience that they're living in, you know.
• 34:30
  Earnest James: And if they are feeling some type of way that, you know, you think that might they might harm themselves, again, that's when you say, okay, let me walk with you in this.
• 34:40
  Earnest James: Let's look for the resources together.
• 34:43
  Earnest James: You know, let's make the phone call together to, I think it's 988, you know, let's make that phone call together, or, you know, let's go, you know, to the hospital, let's wherever, let's go talk to someone, you know, just like just be there with them.
• 34:57
  Earnest James: And, you know, that within itself, again, just taking taking ourselves out of the way to allow them to have that space and have that moment.
• 35:06
  Khalila McCoy: Were you always this compassionate of a person, or do you feel like it's because of this experience it's really opened you up?
• 35:14
  Earnest James: Uh, I always was.
• 35:15
  Earnest James: I always was uh grew up in the church uh early um in my earlier years.
• 35:21
  Earnest James: Uh I'm a PK, and for for those that don't know what that means, that's past our preacher.
• 35:26
  Khalila McCoy: Same here.
• 35:29
  Khalila McCoy: I got it for life.
• 35:32
  Earnest James: So, you know, you grow up, you grew up, sir.
• 35:34
  Earnest James: You know, and so we would go to the nursing homes and we rehabilitation centers and all of that, just at a young started really young at a young age.
• 35:43
  Earnest James: And so it was something we constantly did.
• 35:46
  Earnest James: And one of the things I always share, my mom, even before she became a pastor, um, she always was like a people person, you know, and people loved her.
• 35:56
  Earnest James: And she had this prayer that she would always pray, and she would pray and she would say, God, give me a love for your people.
• 36:02
  Earnest James: And so growing up and hearing her say that prayer, I took that prayer on myself.
• 36:08
  Earnest James: And I was to God, give me a love for your people.
• 36:11
  Earnest James: And He has done that.
• 36:13
  Earnest James: And I just truly have a heart for people to try to help people, you know, any way that I can.
• 36:19
  Earnest James: And so, yeah, so I pretty much always been compassionate, you know, a compassionate person.
• 36:26
  Earnest James: Um, then I always have the the tools to help, um, but have a few more tools now and some some life experience and things of that nature that you know makes me um valuable, should I say, to to help others.
• 36:41
  Earnest James: So yeah.
• 36:43
  Khalila McCoy: As you walk this journey of helping people, what's something that's either surprised you about either how people react to you or just surprised you about something you've learned about yourself?
• 36:56
  Earnest James: Hmm, that's a good one.
• 36:58
  Earnest James: That's a good one.
• 36:59
  Earnest James: Um, I would I think so one thing that I do know, um I'm actually a very quiet person, right?
• 37:10
  Earnest James: I'm very quiet.
• 37:11
  Earnest James: Right.
• 37:14
  Earnest James: And that's why I say that, right?
• 37:15
  Earnest James: So I'm a I'm an inter I'm an introvert, right?
• 37:18
  Earnest James: Okay, when when I get behind the mic or I get on a podcast or something like that, then you know the other person takes over.
• 37:24
  Khalila McCoy: You know what I mean?
• 37:25
  Earnest James: So then I'm just like, oh yeah, I can talk.
• 37:27
  Earnest James: But if you met me just like on a regular day, I'm actually pretty quiet.
• 37:32
  Earnest James: Um so people are surprised of that, you know.
• 37:35
  Earnest James: Like even on a job, even on a job, they've like, how you got a podcast?
• 37:40
  Earnest James: And you hardly say two words.
• 37:41
  Earnest James: I'm like, well, it depends on what you want to talk about, you know what I mean?
• 37:46
  Earnest James: Um so I think uh people that know me or are getting to know me, should I say, um, and come to know me as my introverted self when they find out, you know, the things that I do and and you know, especially the topics that I talk about and how often I talk about it, they're kind of surprised about that.
• 38:10
  Earnest James: Yeah, just like well that they don't see it.
• 38:13
  Earnest James: You know, it's kind of one thing you don't see a comment.
• 38:15
  Earnest James: Like, really?
• 38:16
  Earnest James: This guy got a podcast when like you got 2007 episodes, you know what I'm saying?
• 38:26
  Khalila McCoy: All right, so as we wrap up today, if the listener only took away one thing from what you said today, what do you feel like you really want them to understand and to know?
• 38:37
  Earnest James: Number one, you're not alone, right?
• 38:39
  Earnest James: And so um the Bible says there's nothing new under the sun.
• 38:44
  Earnest James: So there's nothing that you're going through that somebody else haven't gone through, that somebody else isn't currently going through the same thing as you're going through it, and when you're done and made it to the other side, there's still gonna be somebody else that's that starts to go through the same thing that you went through.
• 39:03
  Earnest James: So we're we're not alone in our journeys.
• 39:07
  Earnest James: Um there may be specifics that change, you know, there may be circumstances that's different, um, but there is a a group of people that understand what you're going through, that some has lived through what you're going through, or some just, you know, may have a loved one that may be have gone through what you're going through.
• 39:33
  Earnest James: So they understand.
• 39:34
  Earnest James: Um, but I think that's a that's the main thing that we realize that we're not alone.
• 39:40
  Earnest James: And because we're not alone, you don't have to be afraid to ask for help.
• 39:44
  Earnest James: You don't have to be afraid or ashamed to admit that you need help, you know.
• 39:50
  Earnest James: And you know, sometimes it it takes a little extra courage, you know, to to voice it and to put it out there that you know what, I'm in a space that I need someone to walk along with me, to walk alongside with me.
• 40:03
  Earnest James: Um But when you do, when you do, I believe that God will send the right person to walk with you to get you through that that time period, you know.
• 40:14
  Earnest James: Um, and so that's what I want people to to walk away with.
• 40:18
  Earnest James: Just know that you're not alone.
• 40:20
  Earnest James: Know that there's people out there that's willing to help you, and you don't have to be ashamed to ask for help.
• 40:27
  Khalila McCoy: For the listeners who have loved hearing you talk today and want to see more of your content, remind us how can we find you?
• 40:35
  Earnest James: Yeah, so you can find me uh living out my mission.
• 40:39
  Earnest James: Um, again, my mission is to help people to deal, heal, and fulfill, to deal with your problems, to heal from your pain, and to fulfill your purpose.
• 40:50
  Earnest James: And so uh everything I do is kind of around that mission.
• 40:54
  Earnest James: So you can find me on YouTube, on our YouTube channel, which is the Deal to Heal Podcast Network.
• 41:01
  Earnest James: On that network, you will find the Deal to Heal with E.
• 41:05
  Earnest James: James podcast.
• 41:06
  Earnest James: Um, and also one of the things that I just started is my uh school community on the school platform.
• 41:16
  Earnest James: And it's called Deal to Heal for Living.
• 41:20
  Earnest James: And on that platform, I have uh I teach workshops, I have resources and workshops um to help us prioritize our emotional health and our and our mental health.
• 41:32
  Earnest James: And so I have uh workshops on finding your purpose and overcoming your grief and overcoming you know failure and things of that nature that we deal with uh on a day-to-day base basis and kind of help with helping us work through some of those things.
• 41:49
  Earnest James: Um and so yeah, so you can find me definitely on the podcast on Instagram.
• 41:54
  Earnest James: You can look up um Deal to Hill Podcast or just look me up as Earnest James on Facebook.
• 42:00
  Earnest James: I'm Earnest James on TikTok.
• 42:02
  Earnest James: I think I'm Deal to Hill Podcast, you know.
• 42:05
  Earnest James: But for the main part, I would say just go to um just go to YouTube, you know, the Deal to Hill Podcasting Network.
• 42:14
  Earnest James: And um if you guys are interested in having me to come out to be a speaker at your um school or organization or something like that, you can go to my website, EarnestJamesspeakslife.com, um and you find more information there.
• 42:32
  Khalila McCoy: Perfect.
• 42:33
  Khalila McCoy: Well, I want to thank you for your time, Earnest.
• 42:35
  Khalila McCoy: And it's been truly a pleasure talking to you.
• 42:38
  Khalila McCoy: And like I said, I'm so grateful for what you do and what you share with others.
• 42:44
  Earnest James: No problem.
• 42:45
  Earnest James: Thank you for having me.
• 42:46
  Khalila McCoy: I really appreciate it.
• 42:47
  Khalila McCoy: For anyone listening who has ever felt overwhelmed by what you're carrying, I hope you heard something today that reminds you that your story isn't over.
• 42:59
  Khalila McCoy: That there is space for your pain and space for your healing, that you deserve support, connection, and people who will walk with you through the hardest moments.
• 43:11
  Khalila McCoy: Choosing life is not a one-time decision, it is daily.
• 43:16
  Khalila McCoy: So, Earnest, I want to thank you for reminding us that even in the darkest seasons, there is still possibility and still purpose.
• 43:26
  Khalila McCoy: If you are listening and struggling, I hope you know that you don't have to carry this alone.
• 43:34
  Khalila McCoy: Please do not carry this alone.
• 43:36
  Khalila McCoy: You deserve to be here and you deserve all the care that you need.
• 43:41
  Khalila McCoy: I am so happy that you're here and you are a wonderful part of this community.
• 43:47
  Khalila McCoy: If you or someone you know needs support in this area, you can always call 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.
• 43:56
  Khalila McCoy: It's available 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
• 43:59
  Khalila McCoy: Across the United States and its territories, and it's available in over 240 languages.
• 44:06
  Khalila McCoy: And that includes services for those who are deaf or hearing impaired.
• 44:10
  Khalila McCoy: And through this, you get to talk with trained crisis counselors who will provide the support you need.
• 44:15
  Khalila McCoy: Again, that's 988.
• 44:17
  Khalila McCoy: Thank you for joining in today.
• 44:22
  Khalila McCoy: I love to connect with you and hear what you got from this conversation.
• 44:26
  Khalila McCoy: So don't forget to hit me up.
• 44:28
  Khalila McCoy: And more than ever, I hope this episode reminds you to take a moment to listen a little louder to yourself, to the people you love, and to the things that connect us in ways we sometimes forget to notice.
• 44:42
  Khalila McCoy: I'll meet you back here next time.
• 44:45
  Khalila McCoy: See ya bye.