Latest / Private Lending Insights / Inside i Fund Cities: Private Lending Growth, Construction Loans & Market Trends
Transcript
- [00:00:00] Rocky Butani: Welcome to Private Lending Insights. I'm your host, Rocky Butani, and this episode I interviewed Brian Ziegenfuse and Chris Tereo from I Fund Cities. This is a national private lending firm based in Philadelphia that specializes in construction loans and heavy rehab loans, but they also do DSCR rental rental loans. [00:00:18] I Fund Cities funded over $800 million in private mortgages in 2024, and they're probably gonna top that by the end of 2025. We talked about their lending activity in 2025 markets that they're currently active in, the markets they're excited about growing into. The trends that they're seeing defaults, foreclosures, and their predictions for 2026. [00:00:40] We also spent a bunch of time talking about their construction loans and the guidelines for their loans. So you'll get an update on the maximum leverages the pricing bar requirements and more. We talked a little bit about DSCR loans. We talked a little bit about the company history, their operation, and capital markets. [00:01:00] We've been doing business with i Fund Cities since 2021. I've personally been to their office a few times in Philadelphia to visit them. Co-founders, a great guides. They've built a great company, have a great culture and a great brand. I hope you find this episode to be insightful. Here's my interview with I Fund Cities. [00:01:17] Alright gentlemen. Thanks for joining me for this episode of Private Lending Insights. How's everything at IFC? [00:01:23] Chris Tereo: Good man. Staying busy. [00:01:27] Rocky Butani: Yeah, I could see that. Uh, give us a summary of, of how 2025 has been for you so far and, and maybe compare it to the previous years. [00:01:36] Bryan Ziegenfuse: So we started out the year thinking we were gonna grow, um, maybe about 30, you know, 20 to 30% year over year. [00:01:46] Um, we're, we're hitting the high end of that range from a volume standpoint. I think what's been most kind of exciting about the platform year over year is kind of the continued, our business model has been centered around kind of local boots on the ground, folks that are out in the field, kind of, you know, meeting, meeting builders, meeting developers, and that strategy that. [00:02:18] Commitment to the local approach has been incredible for us. And so we've doubled down on that strategy. We've doubled down in the Carolinas, Florida, Texas, uh, Tennessee. And so that's, that's a lot of the time and effort of the, of the company. And so had a killer 2025 and, and 2026 is looking even better. [00:02:41] Rocky Butani: Love it. Uh, that sounds great. When I look at your stats on Forecasa, um, what's different with I Fund Cities compared to other lenders is, is your, your numbers have increased, uh, consistently from 20 22, 23, 24, and 25. Whereas, uh, a lot of other lenders that I, that I track, they, they had an amazing year in 22 and 23 and then it, then it's, it's gotten, it's gone downward from there for 2024. [00:03:08] And 2025 as well. So, um, so yeah, like you said, your, your, uh, 20 to 30% growth seems to have, uh, you know, have been justified by the numbers. Um, and, uh, and that's looking great. [00:03:22] Bryan Ziegenfuse: I think we're one of the larger, if not the largest, kind of privately held, uh, company lender in this space. And so, you know, our growth has been dictated upon us. [00:03:35] We own, you know, managing through credit, building out, building out our credit, our operations, um, making sure that we're delivering an incredible experience to the customers. And so we weren't just there to, um, fill a credit box and, and pump as much volume as we could. It's been a methodical, targeted approach to growing, growing the company. [00:03:55] So, [00:03:57] Rocky Butani: yeah. And the, the numbers I saw in Forecasa were, uh, put you at about $670 million to in loans, uh, through October and. About 1600 plus loans, uh, and the, in terms of the number of loans that were funded, does that sound about right? We've stacked [00:04:14] Chris Tereo: on a few more loans since, since those numbers, but yeah, that's close. [00:04:19] Bryan Ziegenfuse: We'll probably hit about 8 50, 850, just under, you know, 850 to to 900 million for the year is probably where we'll end up. [00:04:27] Rocky Butani: Wow, that's incredible. Congrats on on all the growth and you guys are doing good, and it's been fun to watch you grow over the years. [00:04:34] Chris Tereo: Appreciate that. To piggyback on what Brad said too, you know, when you look at the top 10 lenders in, in the market, um, ifts in the top 10 and being privately owned, that's kind of what we tell our customers. [00:04:46] It's, it's having the local boots on the ground, but also since starting the, since inception, it's always been about customer experience. So it's about having a sticky platform. Like when someone does a loan with IFD, it's pretty hard to leave. And that's because of the team, the customer experience, the service, service, service, service. [00:05:04] Um, and that's really what we pride ourselves on. [00:05:07] Rocky Butani: And speaking of boots on the ground, uh, which markets are you in or which markets do you have boots on the ground in? [00:05:13] Chris Tereo: So I'm heading to, I'll take this one. I'm heading to Texas next week. So we got three reps, soon to be four there. Um, Florida, we have a, a satellite office. [00:05:24] North Carolina is basically like HQ two at this point. So we're headquartered in Philadelphia. Uh, but Charlotte, North Carolina, we have three reps and a processor there, as well as someone in Raleigh and someone in Charleston as well. So the Carolinas are, are, are big for us. [00:05:42] Rocky Butani: Okay. So those are your main markets. [00:05:43] There's obviously Pennsylvania, Florida, Texas, and the Carolinas. Um, are, are there any other markets that you're really pushing to, to grow in, uh, in the next year or any, any markets you're excited about? [00:05:57] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah. You've got Tennessee that, um, we've got a, an office there. Ohio, we're very active in Ohio and growing in Ohio, kind of that Columbus, uh, the greater Columbus area. [00:06:13] Um, and then Georgia is another area, another market that, um, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll, uh, hopefully have an office, um, there shortly. And then, and then, you know, heading a little bit further out on the west coast is the Arizona Phoenix area, uh, at some point in 2026. [00:06:32] Chris Tereo: So what we like about those markets, so I, I'm pri me and Ryan who's not on here, but we're the ones primarily traveling to these markets. [00:06:40] So it was just in Nashville, what you see in, you know, the, the, the suburbs of not, you know, downtown Nashville in the suburbs, these, um, perimeter counties as well as Ohio is, you know, you look at the shortage in housing, um, in the country, you see a lot of the workforce type housing more affordable. Um, and that's what we're really targeting. [00:07:01] Going to those builders, investors, flippers, land developers, um, and seeing them face to face. That's really what we're targeting. That's what the country needs. I mean, if you locate affordability and, and housing. [00:07:13] Rocky Butani: Absolutely. And, uh, so let's break down the, the loan type. So out of all the loans that you funded this year, uh, give us a, an estimate of the breakdown of ground up construction versus fix and flip or rehab and, uh, DSCR rental loans. [00:07:30] Chris Tereo: Yeah, I mean, it's literally kind of half and half for us right now. So you're seeing rates come down right over the past six months on the DSCR side. And you had a lot of people that opted out of, you know, in COVID when rates were super low, they opted out of the 30 year fixed at 4.25 and took the five year at four, right? [00:07:52] Just because they wanted the little extra spread on rate. Um, so now that you're seeing those start to balloon and, and come due, so we're seeing sort of a big refi boom, especially now that rates are kind of coming down. So people that refi in the low, mid age, low age high sevens, they're now starting to come back and if they didn't do a prepay penalty, it's starting to make sense to look at the numbers and, and do a bunch of refis. [00:08:16] So for that reason, to answer your question, I'd say it's, you know, 50 50, 60 40 right now, rental. Um, and then we're kind of split bridge, uh, fix and flip and new construction. [00:08:28] Rocky Butani: Are there any, uh, trends that you've seen lately outside of the DSCR, uh, rates and refinances? Um, any trends that have been prevalent in 2025? [00:08:37] Bryan Ziegenfuse: There? Clearly that new construction has been an important, um, as, as you know, fix and flip loans, as, as developers that might have been rehabbing properties. They've looked for, um, some, maybe some infill new construction opportunities have gotten more comfortable maybe with new construction, with their general contractors. [00:09:01] And so that's, we've clearly seen f uh, developers, our customers move a little bit more towards new construction for fix it flip, and we've got one of the larger new construction platforms. And so that's one of the reasons that's helped out, uh, some of the growth is you're seeing some of that, um. [00:09:22] Migration over and, and they're looking for lenders that could kind of do straddle both, you know, straddle both strategies, whether they're rehabbing to sell or maybe some infill ground up construction. Um, those have been the primary AR areas that we've seen. [00:09:36] Chris Tereo: I, I spoke at a, a mastermind last night too, and I the same question. [00:09:41] Um, it's funny 'cause it's two optins of the spectrum. You got a lot of guys pushing into new construction. Absolutely. And those that bought it cash and now they're repositioning and refining into a construction loan, it's, they're crushing it. Um, on the other side is you have strict and flippers that maybe were doing the heavy full gut rehab, you now see them opting for the cosmetic light, you know, get in and out almost, you know, whole tailing type type deals just to get in and out quicker as construction costs are still pretty high. [00:10:13] Um, so we're kind of seeing both of those right now. [00:10:17] Rocky Butani: Nice. And have you, uh, experienced a, uh, an, an uptick in defaults or foreclosures? [00:10:23] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah, the answer is yes. We have, um, it seems like it's been geography based is what we've been able to, to tell, uh, so some of the areas where some supply has crept up, um, maybe be before, you know, a good comparison is like, how did supply, what was supply in 20 17, 18 and 19 compared to today? [00:10:47] And 'cause you had a natural dip in supply during the 2122 vintages. And so is that supplies picked up? Um, we are seeing certain markets have an uptick in delinquencies. Some of those are, uh, so some of those markets are, um, the Florida, specifically on the, the West Coast, the Cape Corals, um, Fort Myers, Cape Coral, some Tampa. [00:11:15] Um. Has picked up the Pennsylvania specific to Philadelphia, our home market here, we've seen delinquencies pick up, and I think some of that's attributable to the fact of, um, folks that went into the strategy, into the build, into the development as, Hey, I was gonna go sell this project. And now they're either, they're sitting out there, they've got a little bit longer of carry costs on a property, which could be taxes, insurance, and, and the loans themselves. [00:11:51] Um, and so, you know, we are seeing a pickup in delinquencies there. And so I think one of the things we've been trying to explain through our monthly webinar process, our capital markets updates is, is evaluating those options consistently through the project and, and having fallback strategies. People clearly think. [00:12:13] Um, in certain markets that rents are performing well, like you haven't seen rents decline by 20% or something like that. You might have a temporary blip on a first sale product, but it still works from a rental standpoint. And so people, as people evaluate those strategies, do they really wanna own the property through a rental or do they wanna just sell it and take, you know, take a reduction, um, in the purchase price and move on is really evaluating that strategy month after month as you're going through the project and getting faster at your decision making, I think could clearly, clearly help out folks that are entering kind of that challenging period if they're trying to sell the property. [00:12:51] Rocky Butani: And do you expect, uh, defaults, delinquencies to, to increase into next year or do you think the worst is behind us in terms of defaults, [00:13:01] Bryan Ziegenfuse: the magical forecasting? Um, so we look at, we've been looking at a lot of home builder data over the last, um, probably 12. Over 12 months. Actually at this point, I can't believe it, but we look at a lot of home builder data. [00:13:17] We purchase a lot of home builder data. We look at supply, we look at what lots are coming online, um, from a pipeline standpoint, permits. Uh, and so we think, we think there's still, um, there's still fundamentally not enough houses and, and it's burden, you know, it's up against itself is like this affordability construct. [00:13:42] So can they afford, can the, the person that's work that's living in that, um, that town, that community, that county, can, they afford that product? And right now with rates at, you know, six to 7%, they're struggling to afford it where home prices are. And so there's some give and take that's gonna need to happen as, as income levels move higher year after year rates maybe come down. [00:14:06] Home prices maybe come down a little bit. And so there'll be a natural point of, of, um, of clearing that'll happen over time. We're expecting, depending upon the vintage, depending upon the areas that those delinquencies, um, are, you know, kind of peaking and, and, and are trending in the right direction. [00:14:26] Especially as we look at, here's something that was, was a project that was taken on two years ago versus a project that was taken on and underwritten six months ago. And so we are seeing, I think, gonna see that, that natural decline, um, across the board in the, but some markets might be a little bit longer to clear that inventory. [00:14:47] Rocky Butani: And when you say vintage, you just mean that the year that the, the loan was originated, um, or were funded. Right. So like if it was, if it was 2022, then that's, well that's a long time. That's a, that's three years ago. [00:15:00] Bryan Ziegenfuse: That's three years ago. But yeah, some projects are a little bit longer. Um. Some projects take a little while. [00:15:06] And so yeah, that, when I say vintage, I mean like the developer went in and said, I'm gonna go do this project. And if they went in in 2022, they went in 2023, they went in 2024, they went in 2025. Those vintages, um, are, you know, I think that's what I mean by, by vintages when the developer went into the projects. [00:15:25] And so a key, another key thing that's hurting to, you know, is really an appreciation for the timeline in which the city's gonna grant approvals, um, grant approvals for the project, the, you know, making sure the general contractor's doing things in, in accordance with what the, uh, the building code is in that region, and having inspectors come out and then issue approvals. [00:15:48] The, the cities don't appear, appear to be moving. I was just out in Los Angeles and, uh, we've got a couple projects out there. You know, and no one had anything nice to say about the law, law, uh, Los Angeles County, uh, building department, approval department. [00:16:06] Rocky Butani: Yep. No surprise there. That's, uh, that's the way it is in a lot of California, unfortunately. [00:16:12] Um, so aside from, uh, default, um, uh, or delinquencies, uh, any other predictions you have for next year? [00:16:21] Chris Tereo: Yeah, I mean, look, I think that if, so I'm on the sales side, Rocky. So, uh, my prediction is there's gonna be, um, more and more liquidity in, into our private credit industry here. Um, and there's a lot of l, a lot of lenders being put into business and some being put outta business, but there's a lot of noise in the market. [00:16:41] So you mentioned forecast and looking at the lenders, I mean, it's more important than ever for customers to not only. Get good terms from lenders, but also know those lenders and make sure they can execute and stand the test of time. So my prediction is there's gonna be more liquidity put into the market because, you know, the hedge funds and institutional money is always after the residential notes. [00:17:04] So, um, for us it's important to do, you know, make sure we offer good customer service and continue to diversify, um, and offer new products. I think you're gonna see a big push towards higher leverages, right? Maybe lower rates. It's gonna get more competitive, margins are gonna get thinner. Um, so I think that's a big, a big factor for next year. [00:17:29] Bryan Ziegenfuse: For next year. I think you're, you're, um, I think the capital markets feels like it's pretty, you know, pretty, pretty well supportive of this space, whether that's rental loans, uh, new construction projects, um, fix and. Fix to hold, uh, type all those types of projects. And so the capital markets feels pretty sound and pretty, um, it becoming more and more institutionalized and, and, and capital likes to get, uh, you know, is looking to probably increase their allocation towards this, this segment. [00:18:01] Um, I'd think that, so what that means to investors is, is what Chris just mentioned, where it's a little bit, you know, tighter margins. I think. I think there is a natural slowdown happening. Um, when you look at permit data for single family homes, you're definitely seeing kind of a growing share in the public home builders that build those types of communities. [00:18:26] I think that creates a lot of opportunity over the, you know, over the next, you know, whatever number of months, years. I think that's creating a lot of opportunities for kind of our, you know, the borrowers that we're talking to, to really. Play in the infill space play, um, in the, in the development of, you know, subdividing properties. [00:18:46] You know, that's not, they're not looking to do 150, develop 150 lots and then put 150 homes. It's those smaller infill projects. And I think if you, if, if the, um, and so I see that as a growing a continue, a growing need, a growing area, people wanna live close to the, um, live to the city urban areas. And so I think that's gonna continue to be a pretty big, um, you know, opportunity for developers. [00:19:13] And then, you know, as far as rates, everybody loves to ask us where rates going, where are rates going. Um, we did a long segment on, on interest rates. Um, we actually said it over a year and a half ago that don't expect rates to come much lower. Don't expect ma rates to come much that lower. Um, you know, we, uh, we're still kind of a, a believer in that rates kind of trend horizontally. [00:19:34] With some range bound movements. And what does that mean lower, you know, right now we're running at six and a quarter percent, maybe on a 30 year fixed is maybe it toggles plus or minus 25, 35, 50 basis points in a range. Um, but no, like, you know, a fi a 5% mortgage doesn't feel like it's, it's gonna ha you know, it's gonna happen in the, in the near term. [00:19:57] Rocky Butani: Alright. And then, since you mentioned capital markets, uh, is there kind of a different appetite for ground up construction projects versus fix and flip? I mean, does that typically get spread between different, uh, uh, note buyers or, or do you typically have, uh, you know, a, a secondary market company that, that buys both new construction and fix and flip? [00:20:21] Um, or, or is it, is it separated? [00:20:23] Bryan Ziegenfuse: There's a balanced appetite to, 'cause we look at things if we're gonna close, um, you know, a half a billion, 600 million next year of, of. Bridge of construction loans. We are looking for some type of balance and where it's not all fix and flip, it's not all new construction. [00:20:41] Um, we've, we've, we've been a platform that has supported new construction since we started in 20 18, 20 19. Um, that's been, that's been key, Ryan, Chris, uh, were kind of instrumental in educating our capital partners in, uh, in how we manage that construction risk, how we manage that, that execution risk. And so we've, we've built a track record to support new construction. [00:21:09] Um, and so capital, the capital partners that, that, you know, our balance sheet, the capital partners we've worked with, um, we've got a longstanding relationship. And so it, it does, when you look at some of our competitors that are out there, they're executing towards sometimes securitization. Related executions and there's limitations in those deals, in those transactions of how much new construction should go in it. [00:21:35] Um, you know, we're actively working with trying to work with some of the rating agencies around kind of better definitions around new construction, weather, tight shells, foundations and, and different types of milestones that can, you know, maybe open up some more capital, maybe some more allocations to drive a higher mix of, of construction versus, versus fix. [00:21:58] And flip [00:21:59] Chris Tereo: to Brian's point, you know, just because a lender has the, the liquidity or the products to offer new construction, you as a customer need to make sure they have the expertise in building or managing new construction so that your project between draws and originating the loan, um, it goes smoothly for you. [00:22:16] So you're in and out of those because we're not talking about light REApps and flips their new construction. And a lot of lenders could have the, the product to offer. Um, one of the larger lenders out there, I won't name names, but it rhymes with Avi, might not offer that product, but an iPhone cities will, and we have experience in building it ourselves. [00:22:37] Rocky Butani: Great. And so on the subject of ground up construction, why don't we get into, uh, some of the, the guidelines and, and the loan, the, the actual construction loan program, uh, to talk about some specifics for our audience. Um, could you give us just an overview of the construction program in terms of the, you know, the minimum maximum loan amount? [00:22:57] Uh, you know, we'll, we'll get into leverage and, um, you know, uh, the project sizes, uh, whatever you could, uh, share on that, just a general overview would be great. [00:23:06] Chris Tereo: Yeah, for sure. Um, so obviously it's, it's like everything else in the bridge side. It's heavily driven by experience, you know, and execution ability. [00:23:14] Um, and it's also driven by the, the out sale, right? Are we talking about, um, $200,000, you know, workforce type housing project, maybe a town home development, um, or are we talking about a luxury spec single family in Charleston? Right. So you do have to look at the project itself paired with the, um, experience of the sponsor. [00:23:37] Um, if you want a general range, 80 to 90 LTC, so loan to cost, total cost purchase, plus your hard and soft construction, um, that's what you're usually looking at with the majority going at it 85 LTC on new construction ground. [00:23:54] Rocky Butani: And are you just funding the, the vertical? How does the land play into your loans? [00:24:00] Chris Tereo: Yeah, good question. So, um, you, you, we don't take entitlement risk and most lenders don't. They shouldn't. Um, 'cause you don't really get leverage on just raw land. So, uh, assuming you have plans, permits, and you're technically shovel ready, some, in some counties it's different. Like you might have the zoning approval and zoning plans and maybe not your actual building permit, which maybe will come 30 days from now. [00:24:24] We'll still close that loan, but we don't take until risk. So as long as you have the approvals in place and plans, so we can actually value, uh, value the property, um, we will close that loan. [00:24:37] Rocky Butani: And do you take that, the value of that land in, into the, the total loan to cost? [00:24:42] Chris Tereo: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, it's called the imputed equity that you could build in the land as long as you bought it. [00:24:47] And it's, the land is seasoned. That's where a lot of these, you know, astute investors are, are I mentioned. They're, they're crushing it earlier. Um, if they've been land banking or raising equity to take down land, um, buying land for $250,000 is one lot. And then maybe over the course of a year, they subdivide it into three, buildable lots for three single families or three town homes. [00:25:10] Each one of those lots then appraises For 70 5K or a hundred K, you're building equity. Right. So then when we go to originate the loan, we're gonna look at the as is value of the land plus your construction as opposed to the original purchase price, plus your construction. And at that point, LTC becomes more relevant. [00:25:28] Right. In some cases getting above 90, because if you're using that imputed equity value, [00:25:35] Rocky Butani: uh, could you, uh, define seasoned, uh, in terms of, um, you know, how you look at the construction loans? Uh, is there a, a time period? [00:25:43] Chris Tereo: 12. 12 months? Yeah. And I mean, that's assuming you're buying it and actually adding value, you know, like getting raw land and getting it entitled versus just like buying land, not really doing anything. [00:25:55] You're in a declining market then. Yeah. It's not like you're gonna build a ton of equity in that land. [00:26:00] Rocky Butani: Sure. Makes sense. And, and how about, uh, the different project types or, or the project sizes? Um, are we, uh, are you doing projects with multiple single family homes, um, you know, multiple town homes? Um, tell us a little bit more about the project types. [00:26:16] Bryan Ziegenfuse: So, so we'll do $20 million, $30 million, um, loans in which the. Uh, there's, there's multiple townhomes. There's multiple single families. It's a development. Um, the loan, you know, the loan size is, is kind of driven. Uh, we don't, we don't govern it as much as we're not looking, here's, like, we're not doing new construction into Hamptons where it's a $15 million home. [00:26:46] That's not our, you know, it's a 10,000 square foot home. It's got all the bells and whistles and that, that's not our, our, you know, what we're gonna shy away from, what we're gonna look to leg into is, is, does, does the product that's being built match the community in which it's being, it being built in is. [00:27:09] And so we do like, we'll call it a comparative, um, comparable market analysis, a CMA. And so we'll look to drive, alright. It, it meets what we're expecting to be, you know, the, the, the, the average median. Um, new home sale price in the community, in that county, in that zip code, whatever it might be. And, and that really looks, we look to govern ourselves and look at, at those types of projects. [00:27:34] We're not looking to go, here's the one house that's worth $5 million when all the other houses are selling for a million. That's more like how we, how we look to underwrite projects. We don't really govern ourselves on, on kind of loan size and project size. [00:27:50] Rocky Butani: Okay. And going back to the leverage, uh, I forgot to ask earlier. [00:27:54] Um, what, how do you determine, uh, the amount of leverage that a a, that a investor gets? Is it just based on their experience, whether they get 80% loan to cost, 85 or 90? [00:28:07] Bryan Ziegenfuse: It, it's a combination. It's, we're gonna look at experience plus what is the project, how long does it take to build? Um, and, and you know, what's the complexity of it? [00:28:20] And so for a project that's. That might be a larger project, the more town homes it's gonna fall in that, that lower leverage bucket, even though they maybe did, you know, they've got a ton of, ton of experience, um, in a lower leverage bucket just because of the complexity of the project. And then as we move towards, it's an infill project, the experience that they've got, the, the other 20 that they, that they just completed underneath their belt and they're rolling into the next 20, um, that's gonna fall into a hot, much higher leverage bucket. [00:28:56] Especially when, again, we're gonna look at more what, what's the geography, what's the zip code, county level data, data telling us as far as that, um, as far as, you know, how, how, how vanilla does that project look in the market? Um, and so that's, that's where we'll govern ourselves. We typically like loan. [00:29:19] There always. What's our loan to the finalize the stabilized value, typically referred to as loan to a RB. And so there are, you know, we'll look to manage that typically right around 70, um, is what we'll, you know, what we, what we hit on. Um, and then the, you know, ma majority of the time it's that LTC kind of calculation that really governs the loan, how high we'll go. [00:29:46] Rocky Butani: Great. And could you tell us, uh, a little bit about the, how much you've been pricing deals at for most of this year in terms of interest rate and points? [00:29:54] Bryan Ziegenfuse: The magical question, interest rates, um, yeah, it's anywhere. So, so, so yeah, fix and flip could be anywhere from, um, I don't know, mid, mid to high eights to if for, for like velocity. [00:30:10] I'm gonna turn this at six months, um, all the way up to kind of 10 and a half or fix and flip, and then you, you kind of move a point. Wider on, on new construction than, than fix and flip. [00:30:24] Rocky Butani: So new construction, somewhere between nine and a half and 11 and a half. [00:30:28] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah. [00:30:28] Rocky Butani: Yeah. Okay, great. Yeah, I didn't realize rates were that low for, for construction. [00:30:34] I, I don't think 10 and half minimum. [00:30:36] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah. Yeah, I know. [00:30:40] Rocky Butani: That's great. And, uh, uh, how about, uh, origination fees points? What's, what's your typical then these days? [00:30:47] Bryan Ziegenfuse: It, it depends for whatever gets the deal [00:30:50] Chris Tereo: done. [00:30:50] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah. New fix and flip to new construction, one to two points is the, is the range. [00:30:57] Rocky Butani: Yeah. All right. [00:30:58] Sounds great. Uh, okay. And then, uh, how about, uh, uh, we talked about doing big, uh, you know, bigger projects with multiple homes. How about multifamily properties? Uh, is that, is that something that you're offering at this time? [00:31:13] Chris Tereo: I don't touch them that much, you know, we'll do 'em. For core customers that have been with us for a while, we know they can execute. [00:31:18] We have products for five to 10 units really, or maybe a little bit bigger, um, on the bridge fix and flip fix to rent DSCR side. Um, we just don't do a ton of the ground up multifamily, like I said, unless it's like core sponsor, core market, we love everything about it, then we might. [00:31:40] Rocky Butani: Okay. And are you getting a lot of requests for, for these small multifamily properties? [00:31:45] Chris Tereo: Yeah, I mean, I can tell you from my side, yeah, we, we do see them. Um, you know, maybe not as much. I I, they're very hard to pencil with, you know, as rates are coming down now, I think it's easier to underwrite the exit, you know, and your debt yield exiting. I don't know, for a while it was kind of like, you know, we know, we know a lot of guys that got jammed up with the multi-family development because they pro for of five point a half percent rate and they got caught with an eight and a half on the exit. [00:32:13] So I think it kind of scared a lot of people away from, from multi-family development. Now maybe that's coming back a little now 'cause you're seeing deals, but [00:32:22] Rocky Butani: Yeah, definitely makes sense. And uh, going back to what you were saying about, um, how it, it's important to have a lender that's, that knows ground of construction really well. [00:32:33] Um, how are you guys dealing with inspections these days for, for draws? Are you. Using, uh, uh, any software systems where it's a bit more, uh, automated or are you still sending people out to, to do physical inspections? [00:32:47] Chris Tereo: Yeah, we do. We do both. We give the customers the option to pick because, so we do a virtual inspection. [00:32:53] That's what most people opt for. You log in, you see your project name, click it, you get a link sent to your phone or a PM project manager on site. They take pictures of everything you're looking to draw on. It gets uploaded, we review it, we fund you at that whole process. Soup to nuts is typically two to three business days. [00:33:12] We've done faster, we've done later if people get jammed up. Um, but that's the usual process. We still have the ability to send an inspector, especially on these larger projects, like if you're building five town homes, it's not necessarily feasible to go in and take pictures of framing of five homes if you're the developer. [00:33:31] Sometimes that's a little time, time consuming. Um, but we have people that do it. So we give you the, give you the option. And one of the benefits of having local boots on the ground is we do have local resources in the market that know construction. Right. And they know that market. They're, they're in, they're out. [00:33:49] Right. So that's, that's been a big benefit to our draw process. [00:33:54] Rocky Butani: So even if, uh, someone does the inspection process, you still have, if you have a local rep, you'll send them out there just to get eyes on the, on the deal, right? [00:34:03] Chris Tereo: Oh yeah. Our local reps are, are definitely out at the projects for sure. [00:34:08] Rocky Butani: Nice. Uh, and, and how about borrower requirements? [00:34:12] Uh, uh, you know, what do you, what are your requirements for experience? How many projects does that mean? And, and how about credit score and liquidity? [00:34:23] Chris Tereo: Yeah. There's sort of, there's different buckets, right? So, you know, maybe zero to one deals gets you x leverage. You know, two to three gets you why? Um, I could tell you that the, the top leverage you're looking for is, you know, maybe six plus deals, 700 plus fi o if you're, if you're, how can I be an attractive borrower? [00:34:43] Right? So lenders, it's having six or more deals experience in a 700 plus fi o, right? Um, we work with plenty of people that are more getting started, two to three, um, you know, and lower FICOs, but it's all about what's on your credit score too. Um, you know, a lot of people, you know, when I was in construction too, you use your, your, your credit card to fund a lot of materials, right? [00:35:05] And it's that utilization depends on the time of month that you check your credit. You could be a six 70 or six 70, or a seven 70 right, depending on the time of the year. Um, so it's important to look at the credit report and actually understand what's going on versus a, you know, a six 20 that has a bunch of late payments. [00:35:24] And that's gonna be tough for a lender to wrap their heads around. [00:35:28] Rocky Butani: Nice. That makes sense. And how about, uh, how about the minimum experience? You said you said two projects would be a minimum for a ground up construction loan. [00:35:36] Chris Tereo: That's ideal. I mean, you know, we've done one deal experience, but um, you know, there's also other factors. [00:35:42] Do you have a verified GC that is in the market? That we know in truck? Right, because that takes half, if not more of the execution risk off the table. Um, so I'll say we, we definitely love to get creative with our borrowers. If we could find a way, we'll do it. [00:35:59] Rocky Butani: Okay. And, and how about, uh, real estate investors that have done flips and then they, they need to get into ground of construction now 'cause they, they're not finding enough flip deals. [00:36:08] Um, what's your take on those? That's, that's [00:36:11] Chris Tereo: exactly right that you gotta have a verified gc. So we have to have a GC verification process for that, for exactly people going from flip to new construction so we can make sure we're comfortable with the gc. Also, it's for the borrowers too. Make sure. If it's their first ground up and they're using a gc, chances are it's the first time they're working with them. [00:36:30] Right. So it helps us verify the GC just as much for them as it is for us. Um, yeah, in addition, you look at the level of rehab. So if you're someone that has eight cosmetic rehabs versus five full gut rehabs and three cosmetic rehabs, we're more likely to give better terms to the person that has the full gut rehab. [00:36:52] Right. It's not just five or 10 K paint carpet and relist it. They have experience in, in more heavy rehabs. [00:37:02] Rocky Butani: All right. And how about the exit strategy? Have you seen, uh, most of your borrowers, uh, exiting with a sale? Um, or is, is the rental strategy been more popular this year? [00:37:13] Chris Tereo: Uh, if Brian, you wanna take it, but I, I'll say rental is very popular as a, as an exit strategy. [00:37:19] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's right. I think you see rentals, um, as a core part of. Of what, how people are looking to exit some of these projects. And so that's, um, that's what we'd spend a lot of time on our asset management front. Um, we've got an entire team that works alongside the customers throughout the project, is making sure that they've got, um, uh, the ability, you know, do they, you know, would they, what would they qualify in a, in A-D-S-C-R loan? [00:37:48] How to, how to make it happen seamlessly, um, once the construction's done. And so we have, we have new construction projects that get done in 120 days, and we're putting 'em right in a rental loan afterwards. Wow. Amazing. Uh, [00:38:03] Rocky Butani: I, I would expect it would take a lot longer than that. [00:38:06] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Some guys have machines, especially down in Dallas Tech, like some of the folks down in Dallas have been, they're just like machine machines. [00:38:14] Chris Tereo: Yeah. The Build Durant product is what you could do that with. It's not the like more luxury high end stuff. Right. [00:38:22] Rocky Butani: Sure makes sense. And, and in those cases, are they typically doing it with a a with multiple homes or, or do you find a lot of people doing built to rent strategy with a single property? [00:38:34] Chris Tereo: Not as much with a single property, yeah. [00:38:37] It's usually multiple, multiple property. Hard to make the numbers work on that. Right, [00:38:43] Rocky Butani: sure. And, uh, how about, uh, town homes versus a detached single family? What's more popular these days? Or does it depend on, on the market? [00:38:53] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah, it depends on the market. Like we've seen Charlotte Town homes get oversupplied in the last, um, last few quarters here. [00:39:01] And so they're clearly sticking around longer. Um, and so I, it's definitely market, uh, market dependent. [00:39:10] Chris Tereo: We just, we just underwrote a deal outside of Nashville and you know, he could have gotten, he could have pushed for eight, two units, which would've been, um, however many number of six unit multi-families. [00:39:22] Right? Um, but he opted for 52 units. It like 13, I think it's 13 Quadplexes. Right. And there's two things there. It's like passive lease resistance. So it's like he knew he would've been able to get the approval for those, um, sooner than the multifamily. And also you need to ask yourself as an investor, like what is the liquidity out there for this asset class? [00:39:45] So you're talking at least 5%, if not more, reduction on leverage for those going from one to four unit resi to commercial multifamily, five plus units, right? And also, uh, rates, you know, it typically it's more expensive. Um, so there's just less liquidity out there, and that's the reason for that, because those assets are less liquid, harder to sell a six unit multifamily than it is to sell a single family home. [00:40:12] Rocky Butani: Why don't we switch gears to talk a little bit about, about rehab loans, um, and, and just, just a few of the important points for, for a fix and flip a heavy rehab or, or a light cosmetic rehab. Uh, what are, what are you looking at in terms of maximum leverage for 2025? [00:40:31] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Uh, if you've got the experience, uh, you've got a good fi FICO score, we're going as high as, you know, 90% of the purchase price at a hundred percent of the rehab. [00:40:43] Um, some deals will do 95% loan to cost. Uh, Chris has been looking at and we've executed on, uh, a bunch of deals in the past. Um, a few months now that are called more transactional funding in which we provide financing to folks that are just holding the properties for, you know, two to six, you know, two to three months call it. [00:41:09] Um, and that we've been working towards. And so that leverage is pretty, pretty high. Um, that's been, we've seen as regulations come out from different states regard regarding property flipping has been, uh, you know, an opportunity for wholesalers to take down properties, possibly fix 'em or list them right away, um, or list them quickly after. [00:41:33] And so they're actually taking title to the property. Um, and so for light rehabs though, uh, you know, 70% of the value of the, of the stabilized value as the repair value, the retail value, um. Is is where we'll, where we'll end up, end up. Um, and leverage is high, rates are low and it's, uh, it's a good time to be a borrower if you're doing that. [00:41:57] Chris Tereo: Brian and Ryan were just saying the other day, and we might just start a fix flip business given all the leverage out there. Go back to it. [00:42:05] Rocky Butani: Yeah. Nice. Uh, so as far as the, the loan to after repair value, have you seen other competitors, uh, going up higher, like 75%, uh, a RV and versus 70? [00:42:21] Chris Tereo: Yeah, so we, we lend up to 75. [00:42:23] Rocky Butani: Yeah. Okay. Okay. 75 is pretty industry standard. Okay. Nice. And, and that also I'm assuming, uh, varies depending on, on experience. [00:42:34] Chris Tereo: Um, yeah, I would say less. That's more property driven, I would say. Like yeah, sure. Experience or maybe if you're doing more luxury, single family, new construction, I think you wanna haircut the ARVs a little bit. [00:42:46] Um. Yeah, it's more property driven or maybe geo geography. [00:42:51] Rocky Butani: Uh, and you mentioned the pricing earlier, you said for, for this year, you've been somewhere in the range of 8.5 to 10.5% for rehab deals. [00:43:00] Chris Tereo: Yeah, I'd say, um, it's all about, uh, you know, just as is for our borrow, it's all about volume, right? So the more we could do with someone get better execution on our end, we'll be able to extend that to the borrower. [00:43:12] Rocky Butani: Uh, how about, uh, experience requirements for, uh, for rehab loans, um, versus new construction? How do you, how do you look at experience? [00:43:22] Chris Tereo: Yeah, I'll take re rehab. You know, like I said, we've done it with one deal experience, right? As long as we have a good project and a good gc. Um, also if the leverage is right. [00:43:32] Um, there's so many factors that go into it. So I'd say if you have a deal, you know, and you have a strong FICO and liquidity, we didn't really talk about liquidity on this call yet, but liquidity is super important to the success of these deals, especially rehabs when look like new construction. You go in and you know, exact like, here's your foundation, you got the freight, you're starting from scratch, renovation loans. [00:43:56] I mean, there's a lot of risk take down a wall and there's black moldy weren't accounting for, there's structural issues. You have to knock things down. That's why liquidity is so important to have working capital. Once we originate these loans, you can't really increase your budgets, right? So if you run outta contingency and you don't have liquidity in working capital or you're spread thin, it's gonna be tough to get through that project. [00:44:19] Rocky Butani: And, uh, is there a certain percentage that you look at in terms of what's, what the liquidity requirement is? Is it a percentage of the rehab budget, uh, percentage of the total project? [00:44:30] Chris Tereo: It's whatever that cash to close is that number six months of ir and roughly 10% of the budget liquid. That's like a good ballpark figure, right? [00:44:39] It's not like a one size fits all, but that's roughly what you should be looking at. [00:44:44] Rocky Butani: And do you just verify that by looking at bank statements that that, hey, this is how much cash you have liquid in the bank account. [00:44:51] Chris Tereo: Yep. Bank statements, and then depending on exposure, you know, maybe we'll ask for A PFS, but to do a deal with us, it's just bank statements, liquidity. [00:45:00] Rocky Butani: Great. All right. Well with that, why don't we take a quick break and we'll be right back. Support for this show comes from Four CASA and amazing data platform for private lending and real estate investing. Private lenders, note buyers, capital providers, real estate investors use Forecasa in a variety of different ways. [00:45:19] You can see which lenders have funded which loans. You could see which real estate investors have gotten funding or sold a property or purchase a property. You can see loan assignments to know where the loan was sold to after funding. Many people use forecast as a prospecting tool. I personally use it to vet lenders and for general market insights. [00:45:41] It's become an essential part of our business and I just wish I had access to it sooner. We published some of Forecast as data on private lender link.com. When you do a search for lenders, you could see the top 20 lenders in each market. And we've also added, uh, the top real estate investors in each state and for some of the metro areas. [00:45:59] Visit Forecasa.com to schedule a demo and please mention that you heard about them from Lender Link and the Private Lending Insights podcast. All right. And we're back with I fund cities. Uh, gentlemen, let's talk a little bit about the DSCR loan since, uh, that's been a major loan product for you for this year, and, uh, uh, may likely, uh, be even more popular next year and in the future as, uh, interest rates come down. [00:46:24] Uh, but for 2025, uh, have the majority of the DSER loans you've done been refinances or purchases. [00:46:31] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah, the majority of refinances, either out of, out of construction loans, rehab loans, or, or just existing debt that is on the property. Um, maybe they took it out a few years ago or maybe they, um, uh, they're coming off of a bank loans typically, like banks might only provide five, seven years on re on, on, um, on rental properties. [00:47:00] And so people that don't want to deal with the banks every five to seven years typically. Um, you know, eventually we'll land over in our, kind of our world. And so, uh, we've been able to refinance out a lot of those, uh, those shorter term, um, bank loans. [00:47:20] Rocky Butani: And, uh, you talked a little bit about, uh, interest rates earlier, but what about leverage? [00:47:25] What's, what's been the, the maximum leverage for this year? [00:47:29] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah, yeah. I mean, on a, on a purchase transaction, we'll go all the way up to 80 if it's a refinance and they're cashing out, it's typically right around 75. [00:47:37] Rocky Butani: And earlier this year, there was, uh, uh, this, this, uh, you know, fraud scheme that, uh, occurred in Baltimore, uh, with, with an investor, uh, you know, cashing out equity. [00:47:48] But, uh, you know, uh, inflating the values with the help of appraisers. Uh, did that affect your company [00:47:57] Bryan Ziegenfuse: in any way? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we didn't have any exposure to the, that borrower or borrowers plural, or those people plural. Um, we didn't have any exposure, thank goodness, but that sent a lot of shock waves through the industry. [00:48:13] Uh, it's hurt the Baltimore market. It's hurt, um, exposure limits for folks that are larger, uh, investors in our, in our space. It, it's a lot of impact. Um, it allowed people to take a look at, uh, you know, non, non arm lengths transactions. It's took, uh, you know, people spending more time looking at appraisal companies. [00:48:36] They've been updating in our, in the world, uh, in the credit risk world. Um, in the credit risk world, people call it exclusionary list. They call it like bad actors or people that, that bad quality. And so every institution, including ourselves, took a real hard look at all of the appraisal companies we're using, the title companies we're using the borrowers, and. [00:49:05] Uh, you know, I've updated kind of our exclusionary list, but yeah, that had a, that had a major impact on the, on the, uh, on the industry and it's a shame. [00:49:16] Rocky Butani: How about appraisals moving forward? Have, have you had to, uh, do additional appraisals or, or in-house valuations as a result of this? [00:49:25] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah, so our, I mean, our underwriting team uses a handful of tools to review valuation reports, um, along with having thousands of transactions to look at. [00:49:39] We do look back analysis all the time on credit decisions that were made. We think it's a good process for a company to, to do those types of look back and analysis. We do it with our investors. We do it with ourselves. And so, um, you know, we've enhanced valuation tools. We've, we've, we've, um, we, you know, we pull in, we've built a large data lake. [00:50:04] Of third party data sources that we ingest in each, you know, day or month. And so that's been an important, um, component to our underwriting practices to validate how these appraisal companies are, are tagging properties with values. [00:50:22] Rocky Butani: And how about, uh, the, the loan sizes, uh, over the last 12 months of, uh, what, what's the maximum loan amount that you could do for A-D-S-C-R loan? [00:50:33] Bryan Ziegenfuse: It's gonna, again, it goes down to the property types. So we're, we're typically not putting luxury properties into DSCR loans. Um, we do portfolio rental property loans. And so we just closed 20 million of portfolio loans for one borrower in the last two weeks. Um, might have been like 20. Yeah, a little over 20 million. [00:50:58] Um, and, and so those were, you know, a lot of properties. Pushed into, into a portfolio loan. Um, we've got another one that's like 6 million across 30 properties, I think is the number, 5.8 million across 30 properties, um, that we're putting into portfolio loans. And, and so that's, that's more how we look at it. [00:51:23] We're not, if you're doing an airb, we're typically not on luxury. Here's a luxury Airbnb, Hamptons, Miami, um, uh, you know, Miami Beach. That, that's, that's not what we're gonna look to do. Condos in Miami, uh, condos in Florida, like luxury stuff. We're not, we're typically just gonna shy a little bit more away from [00:51:47] Chris Tereo: the max loan per single asset is tech. [00:51:50] It should be around 2.5 million if that's helpful. But you had a $7 million home and they want 50 LTV. It sounds great, but it's not really the right product. Sure. And what about the minimum. A hundred [00:52:03] Rocky Butani: K is the minimum. Alright, sounds good. Alright, uh, why don't we switch gears and, uh, talk a little bit about the company, about I fund cities. [00:52:13] Um, first of all, could you tell us a little bit about the name of the company? How did you come up with this? This is a very unique name. I like it. I think it's a great brand. Uh, but, but, uh, how did you come up with it and, and tell us a bit more about that. [00:52:26] Chris Tereo: The other guy who's not on here, Ryan Herding founder, um, you know, uh, I was investing in real estate, you know, back in 2017. [00:52:34] 2016. Met Ryan, um, you know, he invested in one of my deals and, you know, kind of said, Hey, we should start a lending company. I'm like, sounds great. We didn't know how to originate a mortgage at the time. We were real estate guys and sales guys. So Brian came in, kind of put the engine in the car and together differing but complimenting skillset. [00:52:54] Um, so the name. It kind of just came up. It was originally fund Philly actually, so it kind of rolled off the tongue a little differently. Um, I guess we didn't really plan to be a national lender. Um, glad we glad we did, uh, change the name. Started with Fund Philly, and then we started doing loans in Pittsburgh and New Jersey. [00:53:12] It didn't really stick. People were like, we hate Philly. So, uh, we, we were forced to change the name. [00:53:19] Rocky Butani: Why would anyone hate Philly? Terrible. Yeah, [00:53:21] Chris Tereo: right. Go Birds. [00:53:25] Rocky Butani: Uh, all right. And, uh, how about the operation? Tell us about how many people you have, um, you know, office locations, obviously you said you're in Philly. Uh, tell us a little bit more about the operation. [00:53:35] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah, so we've got, uh, we've got a large, large, large operation now. Um, well over a hundred people, um, location wise about, you know, right around 30, 31 in Philadelphia. [00:53:53] Um, another kind of 20. Across the US and, and then we do leverage. Um, we've got a team of over, you know, probably close to 60 in Bangalore, India, um, that work in an office for us over there, providing a lot of the, the back office support processing to really make the US team, um, instrumental in, in delivering good service and, and having them pay, you know, pay attention to the customer and answer questions, answer phones. [00:54:28] And so that's the makeup kind of, of the, of the company. You've got, um, you've got a construction management team, asset management team between Philadelphia and Dallas, Texas. And you've got sales account managers processing across all the regions in, in the US that we mentioned. Um, and you've got our capital markets, um, team. [00:54:56] Technology team, uh, based in Philadelphia. [00:55:00] Rocky Butani: Wow, that's impressive. Uh, and, and, uh, speaking of capital markets, tell us a little bit about the, the capital source and, and the structure. Do you guys run a, a fund and then, and then you fund the loans with your fund and then sell 'em? How does that all work? [00:55:15] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah, so we've got a, a balance sheet that allows us the ability to do, you know, close to a hundred, you know, run a balance sheet that's probably about 170, you know, if we wanted to, up to 175 to 200 million. [00:55:33] Um, we typically don't run that large. However, in order to, to cycle, in order to close a billion dollars, close to a billion dollars worth of transactions, uh, we do leverage capital, um, typically through. Firms that are either managing capital for insurance companies, managing capital, um, you know, for pension funds, endowments, money managers, uh, or, or firms that are securitizing, ultimately securitizing certain loans that we're originating. [00:56:09] And so we do work with, um, a multitude of different, uh, investment managers. And why that's important is we're not beholden to one investment manager's mandate or strategy. And so some strategies are, are purely, purely securitization. Some strategies are purely, uh, insurance, insurance capital. And so having a diverse set of strategies that align with what, where the, you know, where I fund cities is going, um, has been super important to us. [00:56:51] Super important through different cycles. Super important to be able to provide, uh, competitive, um, cheap cost to capital. Cheap, you know, more, um, what, you know, more, more competitive loans than, than I think most places out there. Um, it's been e ability to allow us to kind of ebb and flow, um, and have a lot of diversification. [00:57:16] So when things happened during COVID or when rates shot up 200 basis points very quickly, um, you know, the capital was, was, was super sticky and we were able to execute and continue to deliver and originate and close loans and manage our customers and service our customers, um, through that process. And so in addition to that, having the scale, the operations where we've gone through diligence, diligence, reviews from your biggest. [00:57:51] Household names across the, across the, um, across the space up in New York. Um, has, you know, when we send out construction draws, when we manage construction, draws our process. Like you deal with the I Fund cities team. You deal with the I fund cities platform. And so that it's seamless to the customer around, around getting those funds timely, quickly. [00:58:21] Um, and so that's been, you know, our customers really appreciate, appreciate that. [00:58:27] Chris Tereo: I was just gonna add one thing. What that ultimately means is for our customers flexibility. Right? So not being beholden to one capital partner. Still being a hundred percent privately owned and having diversified capital partners, um, running the gamut of lending products, right? [00:58:45] That's all that means for our customers, is that flexibility and that you, you do really feel like you're still working with a private money lender. We have the national leverages rates and terms, but that local lender feel. [00:59:00] Rocky Butani: Love it. All right, gentlemen, that's all I had on my list for today. Uh, anything else, uh, you wanted to add? [00:59:05] Anything I might've missed? [00:59:08] Chris Tereo: I appreciate the time, uh, as always. And, you know, call us. We do have some new products we just rolled out where I kind of hinted at. I'm not gonna spoil surprise, but we got some transactional stuff for some wholesalers and wholesalers and fix and flippers, uh, some new products on the ground upside. [00:59:23] So give us a call. [00:59:25] Rocky Butani: Sure. We love to learn more about that. Maybe we could, uh, do another chat early next year. [00:59:31] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Sounds good. And then Rocky, you know, just a big shout out to our, uh, to our team here. Um. You, you, you know, they, they're the ones, um, we mentioned earlier on the call, as far as the company's history, uh, we were just named, we were top 10 in the Scottsman Guide. [00:59:49] We are one of the top 10 fastest growing companies in the city of Philadelphia. Um, and so a lot of good momentum and it's, and it's, uh, you've got a great team here for customers to kind of rely on, um, as they're looking to build their businesses. [01:00:05] Rocky Butani: Nice. And uh, and one last thing. You mentioned that you, uh, host a a webinar periodically. [01:00:10] Uh, tell us a little bit more about that and how people can participate. [01:00:14] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Yeah, absolutely. So we, we, each month, uh, we host, we call it a capital markets webinar. It's a very diversified list of topics that we cover. We think, we try and make it as relevant to our customers as possible. Uh, last month we had on a portfolio manager that runs. [01:00:37] Pensions 401k money, and we got like the inside look on how people allocate capital at the, at, at that level. Any, you know, running 25 billion, um, of fixed income. And so we've got next month, uh, or next week, we've got a large multifamily, uh, uh, general contractor as well as developer himself, uh, that moved into single family. [01:01:06] And so giving customers a purview of, of, um, of why he did what he did. Um, and so people could sign up, you know, every month, uh, you know, they could reach out to us. We send out links, um, that you could always follow us on the Instagrams, uh, and or, you know, or reach out to our team. Everybody knows how to get, how to get connected in, uh, to our webinar process. [01:01:32] But it's a, but it's a great forum. To get updates on rates, get updates on, on, um, you know, all those things that are impacting the capital markets. [01:01:42] Rocky Butani: Cool. Well, I'll try to jump in on one of those and, uh, try to be a regular as well. Love it. Yep, yep. All right gentlemen. Thank you for your time and, uh, uh, look forward to seeing you the next time I'm in. [01:01:56] Bryan Ziegenfuse: Awesome. Thanks Rocky. [01:01:57] Rocky Butani: Appreciate it. Alright. Alright. Thanks guys. See ya. And that's a wrap for this episode of Private Lending Insights I Fund Cities has been listed on private lender link.com since 2021. Visit their profile to learn more about their guidelines and find some content that we've produced with them over the years. [01:02:14] You can call them directly, send 'em a short email form or a long detailed loan request form. When you reach out. Please mention that you heard about them from Lender Link and the Private Lending Insights podcast. Thank you for tuning in and listening all the way to the end.