Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Johanna Sjoberg's Deposition In The Maxwell/Virginia Roberts Suit (Part 1-3)

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Johanna Sjoberg's Deposition In The Maxwell/Virginia Roberts Suit (Part 1-3) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to start taking a look
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: at the Joanna Schoberg deposition that just dropped in the
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: new document dump. And while there's going to be a
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: ton of articles out talking about this stuff, this is
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: the actual meat and potatoes of it. And the most
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: important part is that we go through the document and
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: see what the document itself says for ourselves. So with
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: that in mind, let's dive in. Sigrid McCauley is asking
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the questions, and obviously Johanna is answering. McCauley, alright, so
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: we're going to get started, and if you have any
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: questions about the deposition or you need to stop to
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: take a break, you can just let me know, and
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: we'll take that break. So what I, the only thing
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I ask, is if we're in the midst of a question,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: you finish the answer before we take a break. Schoberg, sure. McCauley,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: but I'll try to make sure that I take regular
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: breaks as well. You stated, your name for the record.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Can you tell me your date of birth? She gives
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: her date of birth. Macaulay. That makes you how old? Skipped. Macaulay. Okay.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: And where are you currently living? Skipped once again. Macaulay.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to show you what I'm going to
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: mark as the first two exhibits in the matter. And
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask the court reporter if I can
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: mark those. The referred to document was marked by the
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: court reporter for identification as Schoberg exhibits one and two. Macaulay. Okay,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I'm going to show you what I'm marking as Exhibit 1.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: It's going to be the re-notice of your videotape deposition,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: which is simply a notice I'm going to show you.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: And then Exhibit 2 is the subpoena that we served
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: on you. So you're here today pursuant to our notice
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: of deposition and the subpoena that we served on you.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Are you familiar with the subpoena? Have you seen the
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: document before? Schoberg, yes. McCauley, okay, great. All right. Do
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: you know a female by the name of Ghislaine Maxwell? Schoberg, yes. Macaulay,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: and when did you first meet Ms. Maxwell? Schoberg, 2001,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: March probably, end of February, beginning of March. Macaulay, and
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: how did you meet her? Schoberg, she approached me while
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I was on campus at Palm Beach Atlantic College. Macaulay,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: and what happened after she approached you? Schoberg, she asked
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: me if I could tell her how to find someone
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: that would come and work at her house. She wanted
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: to know if there was like a bulletin board or
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: something that she could post that she was looking for
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: someone to hire. Macaulay, and what did you discuss with her? Sjoberg,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I told her where she could go to, you know,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: put up a listing. And then she asked me if
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: I knew anyone that would be interested in working for her. Macaulay,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: did she describe what the work was going to be? Schoberg,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: she explained that she lived in Palm Beach and she
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: didn't want butlers because they're too stuffy and so she
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: just liked to hire girls to work at the house,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: answer phones, get drinks, do the job a butler would do. McCauley,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: and did she tell you that she would pay you
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: for that kind of job? Schoberg, at the moment, no,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: but later in the day, yes. McCauley, and what did
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: she say to you? Answer, there was another woman with her.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I don't recall her or what she looks like or
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: how old she was. Macaulay, and what happens next? Answer,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: and then she asked me if I would be interested
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: in working for her, and she told me that she was,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I could trust her, and that I could jump in
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: her car and go check out the house at that
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: moment if I wanted to. And so I said, sure,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: let's do it, and went to her home with her. Macaulay,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: and where was that home? Answer, in Palm Beach. Macaulay,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: and did she describe that home as being her home? Answer.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: She described it as being her home and alluded to
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the fact that it was her and Jeffrey's home and
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: that she had homes all over the world. Yes. Macaulay.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: And what happened when you arrived at the home? Answer.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I believe she just showed me around. Macaulay. Do you
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: recall meeting anybody at the home? Answer. I don't recall
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: if I met Jeffrey at that time or the next
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: time that I was there. Macaulay. How did you meet Jeffrey?
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Did Maxwell introduce you to Jeffrey? Answer, yes. Macaulay, what
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: do you recall of your first meeting with Jeffrey? Answer,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: I remember him being in a bathrobe. I recall talking
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: to him about how I was a major in psychology
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: and he had studied psychology and so he spoke with
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: me about different topics. I remember thinking this guy is
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: very smart. That was my first impression. Macaulay, and when
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: you refer to Jeffrey, are you referring to Jeffrey Epstein? Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: How did the meeting, you said Maxwell took you to
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: the home? Do you remember how that meeting ended? Answer, well,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: she dropped me back off at campus. Macaulay, and did you?
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: To this, Johanna interrupts. She got my number, and I
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: took her number, and then she called me the next
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: weekend to work. Macaulay, so at that point, you started
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: working for Ms. Maxwell? Answer, at that time, yes. Now
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: to this, Laura Menninger, one of the lawyers for Glenn Maxwell, objects.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Objection leading, sorry. Macaulay, Macaulay, did you then start working
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: for Ms. Maxwell after that first meetup? Answer, she called
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: me and I went over to the home the next
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Sunday to work. Macaulay, and what work can you describe
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: for me the first day at work? What work you performed? Answer, sure.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I remember answering the phones and taking messages. And at
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: one point, she asked me to go pick up printer
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: ink and I took her car to Office Depot to
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: get ink. She asked me to go buy some magazines.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: So I went to the Palm Beach Daily News and
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: bought a few magazines. She and I went. She wanted
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: to take me shopping to Worth Avenue, but it was
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: a Sunday, and Neiman Marcus was closed. So we went
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: back to, like, a little bookstore. And I remember, she bought,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I think, five pairs of reading glasses because she thought
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey would like them. He had them all over the house.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: On every table, there was reading glasses. That's about it.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: It was a pretty simple day. Macaulay, were you paid
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: for that day of work? Answer, yes. Macaulay, and how
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: much were you paid? Do you remember? Answer, I don't
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: remember how many hours I was there. She paid me cash. Macaulay,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: so Maxwell paid you? Answer, yes. Macaulay, and then was
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: she the one who trained with you with respect to
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: what you were supposed to do during the day? Directed
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: you to, like you said, go to, to this? Johanna interrupts.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I believe she was the one that was kind of
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: showing me around. Macaulay, and how long did you work
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: in that position? Answering phones and doing, Johanna answers, just
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: that one day. Macaulay, just that one day? And did
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: your duties change? Answer, well, the next time she called me,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: she asked me if I wanted to come over and
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: make $ 100 an hour rubbing feet. Macaulay, and what did
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: you think of that offer? Answer, I thought it was fantastic. Macaulay,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: and did you come over to the house for that purpose? Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: and when you came over to the house, was Maxwell present? Answer,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I don't recall. Macaulay, and what happened that second time
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: you came to the house? Answer, at that point, I
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: met Emmy Taylor, and she took me up to Jeffrey's
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: bathroom and... And he was present. And her and I
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: both massaged Jeffrey. She was showing me how to massage.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: And then she, he, took, he got off the table,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: she got on the table, she took off her clothes,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: got on the table, and then he was showing me
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: moves that he liked. And then I took my clothes off.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: They asked me to get on the table so I
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: could feel it. Then they both massaged me. So it
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: was more than a foot massage at that point? Answer, yeah,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: it was mostly like legs and back. Macaulay, was everybody
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: in the room without clothes on? Answer, when they were
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: on the massage table, yes. Macaulay, did they, when they
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: got off the massage table to perform the massage, did
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: they dress or did? Answer, yes. Macaulay, they dressed? And
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: do you recall who paid you for that first day
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: that you did the massage? Answer, I don't recall. Macaulay,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: do you recall whether Maxwell was at the house during
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: that first day when you were doing the massage with
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Emmy and Jeffrey? Manager to this, objection, asked and answered. Macaulay,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: you can answer. Johanna, I don't recall. Macaulay, who did
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Emmy work for? Answer, Ghislaine. Macaulay, did Maxwell ever refer
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: to Emmy by any particular term? Answer, she called her
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: her slave. Macaulay, you said your job duties changed. Did
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: you start to travel as part of your job with
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey and Ghislaine? Answer, yes. The next time they called me,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: they asked me to go to New York. Macaulay, and
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: did you? Do you recall when that was, approximately? Answer,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: that was the Easter of 2001. Macaulay, and do you
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: recall who was on the plane with you for that trip? Manager, objection, leading,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: and form. Macaulay, actually, I'm going to stop really quickly,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to ask for the next exhibit, please. Manager,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: this is 3. Macaulay, yes, I'm going to mark this
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: as Exhibit 3 for the purpose of this deposition. Macaulay, Johanna,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: I'm going to direct you, I have flags and pages,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: but for the record, I'm going to say what pages
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: they are, before I hand you the exhibit. Answer, sure. McCauley,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: these are Roberts 000748 and 000758, are the two pages
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: right now I may refer you to. The document itself
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: is 000721 through 789. And these are flight logs pulled
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: from David Rogers, one of the pilots of Epstein, and
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: that have been produced in this case. Manager, Objection Foundation,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: asking the witness any questions about this document. The witness,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: can I touch it? McCauley, yes, you may. Manager, I
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: just have to say things every now and then. The witness, okay. McCauley,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: so you mentioned... that you traveled to New York. If
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: you turn to page, flag page, which should be 00748
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: at the top of the document, you're going to see
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: a date of April 2001. I'm just going to ask
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: you to go down to the, if you look at
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: the line on the left to where it says nine
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: for the date and look over where it has the names.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Do you see, can you identify your name on that list? Answer, yes, Macaulay.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: And can you tell me, I know there are initials there,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: who else, to the extent you remember, was on the
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: plane with you? Manager, objection, foundation, leading form of question. Macaulay. Johanna,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: do you recall who was on the plane with you
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: that day? Manager, objection, foundation, form, leading. The witness, reading
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: the document. Macaulay, you can answer. Answer, okay, J.E. Jeffrey Epstein, E.T.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Emmy Taylor, V.R., Virginia Roberts, B.K., I do not recall,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: and myself. Ms. Manager, objection, the witness is reading the document. McCauley,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: and do you recall where you flew, when you went to,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: when you traveled that first time with Jeffrey Epstein? Answer,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: we left from Palm Beach and landed in Atlantic City
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: for a few hours because there was a storm in
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: New York and then got back on the plane and
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: a few hours later, and landed in Teterboro. Macaulay, and
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: you said that you recall landing in Atlantic City? Did
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: you go into Atlantic City? Answer, yes, we went to
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: one of Trump's casinos. Macaulay, did you actually go into
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: the casino itself? Answer, yes. Macaulay, do you recall Virginia,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: at the time Virginia Roberts, being present with you? Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: do you recall if she went into the casino? Answer.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: She was underage. I did not know anything about how
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: old you had to be to gamble legally. I just
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: knew that she could not get in because of an
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: ID issue. So she and I did not gamble. Macaulay.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: In your opinion, did Virginia look young in your view? Answer. Yes. Macaulay.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Did you ever, did you at that time, wonder why
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: she was traveling with Jeffrey? Answer. At that time, I
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: did not. Macaulay. Did you later wonder that? Answer. Yes. Macaulay.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: And what was your impression? Manager, objection, vague, speculative. The witness, I,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: we're just jumping ahead, is that okay? Miss McCauley, yeah,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: that's okay. Answer, a few days later, I remember asking
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: her questions to try to figure out her role, why
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: she was there, and she gave me vague answers and
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: was never specific. And so I thought perhaps she was
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: just an assistant, someone that did massages well. I wanted
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: to believe that she was an innocent. McCauley, Did you
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: ever refer to her as being orphan-like? Answer, I did. Macaulay,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: and how did that come about? Answer, no, I only,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: to you, I said that to you. I just saw
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: her as perhaps someone who may not have had a
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: strong family, and they took her under their wing. Macaulay,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: now you mentioned remembering going to Atlantic City. Did you go,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: where did you go after Atlantic City? Answer, once we
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: landed in New York. Emmy and I went in a
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: car and drove around the city for half an hour
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: or so just to see some of the city. Macaulay,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: and then where did you go after doing the sightseeing? Answer,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: we went to the townhouse on East 71st. Macaulay, and
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: can you describe that location for me? Answer, sure, between
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Madison and Park. I think the address might have been
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: 9 East 71st Street. Macaulay, and who owned that home? Answer,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: as far as I know, Epstein. McCauley, can you describe
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: for me physically what, and to this, Johanna interjects, palatial.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: When you walk up, it looks like a normal door
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: to a townhouse, and when you walk in, I thought
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: there were four floors. I heard there were seven floors.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't see them all. McCauley, and do you recall who,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: if anybody, was at Jeffrey's home when you arrived? Answer, yes.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: When I first walked in the door, it was just
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: myself and Ghislaine, headed for the staircase, and said, told me,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: to come up to the living room. Macaulay, and what
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: happened at that point, when you came up to the
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: living room? Answer, I came up and saw Virginia, Jeffrey,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Prince Andrew, Ghislaine, in the room. Macaulay, and did you
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: meet Prince Andrew at that time? Answer, yes. Macaulay, and
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: what happened next? Answer, at one point Ghislaine told me
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: to come upstairs, and we went into a closet and
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: pulled out the puppet. the caricature of Prince Andrew, and
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: brought it down, and there was a little tag on
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: the puppet that said Prince Andrew on it, and that's
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: when I knew who he was, Macaulay, and did, what
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: did the puppet look like? Answer, it looked like him,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: and she brought it down and presented it to him,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: and that was a great joke, because apparently, it was
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: a production from a show on BBC, and they decided
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: to take a picture with it, in which Virginia and
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Andrew sat on a couch. They put the puppet on
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Virginia's lap, and I sat on Andrew's lap, and they
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: put the puppet's hand on Virginia's breast, and Andrew put
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: his hand on my breast, and they took a photo. Macaulay,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: do you remember who took the photo? Answer, I don't recall. Macaulay,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: did you ever see that photo after it was taken? Answer,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I did not. Macaulay, and Ms. Maxwell was present during the,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: was Ms. Maxwell present during that? Answer, yes. Macaulay, what
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: happened next? Answer, the next thing I remember is just
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: being shown to which room I was going to be
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: staying in. Macaulay, when you exited the room that you
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: were in where the picture was taken, do you recall
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: who remained in that room? Answer, I don't. Macaulay, do
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: you recall seeing Virginia exit that room? Answer, I don't.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up part one there.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode, we'll pick up with part two.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off with the
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Johanna Schoberg deposition. So let's just get right back to it. Macaulay,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: during this trip to New York, did you have to
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: perform any work when you were at the New York house? Answer,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I performed at least one massage that I recall. McCauley.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: And who instructed you to give that massage? Answer. Jeffrey. McCauley.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: And can you describe for me what happened during that massage? Answer.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Near the end, he asked me to rub his nipples
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: while he masturbated. McCauley. And did that take place? Answer.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: It did not. McCauley. And why not? Answer. I was
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: not comfortable with it, and so I left the room. McCauley.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Did you have any? Did you say anything to him
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: before leaving the room? Answer, I believe I said I'm done. Macaulay,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: do you recall what his reaction was to that? Answer,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I do not. At the time, at the moment, I
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: do not. Macaulay, do you recall later what... To this,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Johanna interrupts. Well, we had a conversation a little later
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: talking about his expectations and that was the conversation where
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: he said that the next trip they were going on
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: was to the island in the Virgin Islands and I
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: would be invited. However, there would be, quote, sex stuff happening. Macaulay,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Can you describe for me? Can you describe for me
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: what the in New York where you massaged and what
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: that looked like? Answer. He had one room that was
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the massage room. It was about the size of a
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: spa room in a spa. It had high ceilings. It
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: had dark tapestry on the walls. It was a very
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: dark room. There was a very large picture of a
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: naked woman whom I don't recall. That's all I remember.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Macaulay in the New York home. Did you observe photos
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: around the house? Answer, I don't recall. Macaulay, in the
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach home that we were talking about earlier, did
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: you recall seeing photos in that? Answer, yes. Macaulay, and
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: do you recall seeing photos of naked females in that home? Answer, yes. Macaulay, approximately,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: can you tell me where you would see those in
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: the home? Answer, I definitely saw them in his bathroom,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: and I can't recall if they were in the main
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: living areas. McCauley, did you see them in the stairwell
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: up to the second story of the house? Answer, I
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: can't recall. McCauley, do you know who, who the people
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: were in those photos? Were they familiar to you? Answer, no. McCauley,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: were you in any of those photos? Answer, at one point, yes. McCauley,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: and were you naked in these photos? Answer, topless. McCauley,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: do you recall seeing any naked photos of Virginia Roberts? Answer,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: I do not. Macaulay, where did you go next after
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: the New York visit? Answer, I went to the Virgin Islands. Macaulay,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: and who told you that you would be going to
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: the Virgin Islands? Answer, he asked me if I wanted
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: to go, and I said I would still like to go. Macaulay,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: and do you recall who you, you went with to
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: the Virgin Islands? Answer, I believe, well, I know Virginia
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: was with me, Ghislaine was there, Jeffrey, and there were
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: two other women that I don't recall their names. McCauley,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: did you travel on Jeffrey's plane to get to those islands? Answer, yes. McCauley,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I want to show you again the flight log that
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: you have there in front of you, if you can
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: flip to. Manager, I'm going to object to the foundation
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: once again. McCauley, it's the same page that you were on.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: The date is the 11th. Answer, yes. McCauley, do you
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: see the TEB to TIST there? Answer, yes. Manager, objection. Leading,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: the questioning is testifying now. Macaulay, can you please let
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: me finish my question? Macaulay? can you tell me who
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: the initials are there that you see that were on
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: the plane? Manager. Objection. Foundation. Leading. Answer. Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: AP and PK are the two women I do not recall,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Virginia Roberts and myself. Macaulay, Do you recall how you
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: flew back from the location in the U.S. Virgin Islands? Answer.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: They put me on a commercial flight. I wanted to
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: be home in time for Easter. Macaulay, when you say they,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: do you recall who made those arrangements for you? Answer.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: It could have been Ghislaine. Macaulay, did you, do you,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: recall performing massages while you were in the U.S. Virgin Islands? Answer. Yes. Macaulay,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: who was involved in? Was there more than one? Answer. Yes.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I massaged Ghislaine at one point. and I massaged Jeffrey,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Virginia and I both, on the beach. Macaulay, were you
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: dressed during the massage that was on the beach? Answer, yes,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: bikinis probably, most likely. Macaulay, do you recall what Virginia
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: was wearing? Answer, I believe she was wearing a bathing
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: suit as well. Macaulay, were you paid for the massage
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: on the beach with Virginia? Answer, at the end of,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: before I left and flew home, Ghislaine gave me $ 1, 000. 00.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Just to interject, that was their M.O. That was the
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: hush money. Oh, they got paid. They were professionals. They
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: were prostitutes. That was all part of the baked-in plan, folks. Macaulay,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: you mentioned that you massaged. You recall massaging Ghislaine on
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: the trip to the USVI. Do you recall where that
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: took place? Answer, I don't recall what days we were there, so... Macaulay,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: do you recall where it took place? Answer, I believe
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: it was, well, either in my guest cottage or one
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: of them. There were three guest houses set up that
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: were all similar that I was staying in. Virginia and
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I stayed in one together, and it was either in
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: there or in another one that was identical. Macaulay, and
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: was that massage performed with Virginia as well or by
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: you alone? Answer, I don't recall. Macaulay, was there other
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: females in the USVI on that trip with you besides Virginia? Answer,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: two others. Macaulay, and do you recall who they were? Answer,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I do not. Macaulay, did you ever see Ghislaine Maxwell
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: during that trip laying out by the pool? Answer, there
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: was one time where we were all by the pool, yes. Macaulay,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: was Ghislaine Maxwell ever nude or topless by the pool? Answer,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: I don't recall. She was nude when she went swimming
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: in the ocean. Macaulay, at that moment in the USVI home,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: did you observe any photos there of nude females? Answer,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I don't recall. Macaulay, besides Virginia, who you mentioned, you
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: observed to be young, did you observe any other females that,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: in your view, appeared to be essentially under the age
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: of 18? Answer, no. Macaulay, did you observe any females
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: who you thought looked young, younger than you? Answer, no. Macaulay,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: do you remember an individual by the name of Redacted
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: that you met during the time with Jeffrey Epstein? Answer,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: in Palm Beach? Macaulay, yes. Answer, yes. Macaulay, did you
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: observe her to be young when you met her? Manager, objection,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: vague as to time. Johanna, all the women were generally young.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I did not know the ages, really, of anyone there, so... Macaulay,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: how many massages did Jeffrey receive, average, in a day? Manager, objection, foundation. Witness,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: three a day. Macaulay, let me back up for a minute.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: How long did you work for Jeffrey and Ghislaine? Manager, Objection, Leading,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and Foundation. Johanna, I believe it was five years, 2001
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: to 2006. Macaulay, and how many massages did Epstein receive
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: per day on average? Manager, Objection, Foundation. Johanna answers this question, three. Macaulay,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: were the massages performed by the same girl or different females? Answer, different. Manager, Objection, Foundation. Macaulay,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: What did the females who performed the massages look like? Manager, objection, foundation. Answer,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: they all look different. Some of them were ethnic. Some
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: were blonde. Some were short. Some were tall. Everyone was thin. Macaulay,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: were the girls who performed the massages young or old? Manager,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: objection to the foundation. Answer, I don't recall anyone being old. Macaulay,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: do you recall anybody being over the age of, say, 25? Manager,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: objection to form. Yoana answers, yeah, I believe there was
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: probably a few women that were older than 25. Meninger,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I get a chance to object, and then
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: you can still answer. No one is going to stop
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: you from answering. I just need to get the objection
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: on the record in the same way she needs to
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: be able to talk before you. My apologies. I'm not
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: trying to cut you off, but I'm supposed to get
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: it in before you answer. Macaulay, did Jeffrey ever tell
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: you he received so many massages from so many different girls? Manager, objection, hearsay. Macaulay,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: you can answer. Answer, he explained to me that, in
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: his opinion, he needed to have three orgasms a day.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: It was biological, like eating. Macaulay, and what was your
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: reaction to that statement? Answer, I thought it was a
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: little crazy. Macaulay, and what did you, do you recall what,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: when you observed the other females giving massages, do you
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: recall what they would dress like? Did they wear scrubs,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: or did they typically wear normal clothes? Answer, normal clothes. Manager, objection, leading. Macaulay,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: do you believe that from your observations, Maxwell and Epstein
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: were a boyfriend and girlfriend? Answer, initially, yes. Macaulay, did
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Maxwell ever share with you whether it bothered her that
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey had so many girls around? Manager, objection, leading. Answer, no,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: actually the opposite. Macaulay, what did she say? Answer, she
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: let me know that she was, she would not be
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: able to please him as much as he needed, and
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: that is why there were other girls around. Macaulay, did
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: there ever come a time, did you ever take a
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: photography class in school? Answer, yes. Macaulay, and did there
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: ever come a time when Maxwell offered to buy you
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: a camera? Answer, yes. Manager, objection, leading the witness. McCauley,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: did Maxwell ever offer to buy you a camera? Manager, objection, leading. Witness, yes. McCauley,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: was there anything you were supposed to do in order
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: to get the camera? Manager, objection, leading. Johanna, I did
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: not know that there were expectations of me to get
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: the camera until after. She had purchased the camera for
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: me and I was over there giving Jeffrey massage. I
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: did not know that she was in possession of the
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: camera until later. She told me, call me after, I
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: had left and said, I have the camera for you,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: but you cannot receive it yet because you came here
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: and didn't finish your job, and I had to finish
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: it for you. Macaulay, and did you? What did you
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: understand her to mean? Answer, she was implying that I
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: did not get Jeffrey off, and so she had to
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: do it. Macaulay, and when you say get Jeffrey off,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: do you mean bringing him to orgasm? Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: did Ghislaine ever describe to you what types of girls
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey likes? Answer, model types. Macaulay, did Ghislaine ever talk
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: to you about how you should act around Jeffrey? Answer,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: she just had a conversation with me that I should
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: always act grateful. Macaulay, did Jeffrey ever tell you that
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: he took a girl's virginity? Answer, he did not tell me.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: He told a friend of mine. Macaulay, and what do
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: you recall about that? Manager, objection, hearsay, foundation. Sjoberg, he
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: wanted to have a friend of mine come out. who
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: was a cardio kickboxer instructor. She was a physical trainer.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: And so I brought her over to the house and
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: he told my friend Rachel that, he said, you see
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: that girl over there laying by the pool? She was 19.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: And then he said, I just took her virginity. And
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: my friend Rachel was mortified. Macaulay, based on what you know,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: did Maxwell know what the type of massages Jeffrey was
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: getting typically involved sexual acts? Manager, objection foundation, leading. Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: what was Maxwell's main job with respect to Jeffrey? Manager,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: objection to the foundation. Johanna, well, beyond companionship, her job,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: as it related to me, was to find other girls
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: that would perform massages for him and herself. Macaulay, did
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Maxwell ever refer to the girls in a particular way? Answer,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: at one point, when we were on the island, we
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: were all watching a movie, and she called us her children. Macaulay,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: did anybody respond to that? Answer, I don't recall. Macaulay,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: did she ever refer to herself as a mother? Answer, yes,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: like a mother hen. Macaulay, do you recall who was
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: present at the time she made that comment about children? Answer,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: this was the second trip that I took to the
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Virgin Islands, so no. I don't want to speak, you know, incorrectly.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I can't remember. I can't really remember. Macaulay, have you
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: ever met David Copperfield? Answer, yes. Macaulay, and do you
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: recall when you initially met him? Answer, yes. Macaulay, can
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: you tell me what that was? Answer, sure. Someone called
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: me from the house and said that he would be there,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: and if I wanted to come have dinner, then I
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: could meet him. So when I arrived at the house,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: he wasn't there yet, but I waited with, I believe,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Sarah Kellen, and there was another girl there which I
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: had never met and had never seen. She seemed young
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: to me. And I asked her what school she went to,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: kind of prodding, to see if she went to one
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: of the area colleges, and I didn't. not recognize the
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: name of the school and so I thought she could
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: be younger than college age but I had to assume
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: for my own sanity that she was a daughter of
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: one of his friends Macaulay but it was possible she
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: was the school is it possible that the school she
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: referred to was a high school answer yes McCauley, and
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: what happened at this dinner, if anything? Answer, he did
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: some magic tricks. McCauley, did you observe David Copperfield to
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: be a friend of Jeffrey Epstein's? Answer, yes. McCauley, did
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Copperfield ever discuss Jeffrey's involvement with young girls with you? Answer,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: he questioned me if I was aware that girls were
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: getting paid to find other girls. So again, David Copperfield knew,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: but none of these other so-called smartest men in the
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: room had any idea, huh? I'm calling bullshit from here
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: to next Wednesday. Macaulay, did he ever tell you any
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: of the specifics of that? Answer, no. Macaulay, did he
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: say whether they were teenagers or anything along those lines? Answer,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: he did not. Manager, objection. Leading, calls for hearsay. All right, folks,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right there with this episode.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode, we'll pick up where we
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: left off. All of the information that goes with this
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up where we left off with
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: the Johanna Schoberg deposition. So let's get right back to it,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: shall we? Macaulay, did you ever hear or observe Jeffrey
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: talking on the phone about Frederick Fakai? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: objection leading. Macaulay, what did you hear? Answer, I heard
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: him call someone and say Fakai is in Hawaii. Can
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: we find some girls for him? Macaulay, and what was
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: your reaction to that? Answer, well, I was massaging and
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a reaction. I tried to remain reactionless
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the whole five years. Macaulay, did Jeffrey ever take you shopping? Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: can you describe for me what happened? Answer, sure. He
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: took me to Victoria's Secret. Of course he did. I
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: believe he picked out everything and went into the room
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: with me, the fitting room, which was very odd. Macaulay,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: did he make any comments about being in the fitting
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: room with you? Answer, he joked that one time he
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: was in there with another girl and she said something like, dad,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: but that's all I recall. Macaulay, did Jeffrey ever talk
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: to you? Let me back up a moment. Have you
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: ever been propositioned by anyone to have a baby for someone? Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: and who propositioned you? Macaulay, Jeffrey asked me. Macaulay, did
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: he ask you more than once? Answer, yes. Macaulay, and
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: what did he say? Answer, basically just said, I want
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: you to be the mother of my baby. Macaulay, and
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: do you recall your response to that? Answer, um, I
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: don't believe that I said flat out no. I didn't
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: agree to it. I wouldn't just say, oh yeah, really? Okay. McCauley,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: did you ever bring other girls over, as Maxwell requested? Manager, objection. Leading, hearsay, form. Yoana,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: one time. McCauley, let me back up for a minute,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: just to make it a clean question. Did you ever
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: bring friends over to Massage Jeffrey? Answer, no. McCauley, and
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: why did you not bring friends over to Massage Jeffrey? Answer,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I was living in secret about what I was doing
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: during the massages, and I did not want my friends-to-be
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: to know what I was doing, so I did not
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: want anyone else coming into that. McCauley, was Bill Clinton
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: a friend of Jeffrey Epstein's? Manager, Objection Foundation. McCauley, let
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: me back up. Do you know if Bill Clinton was
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: a friend of Jeffrey Epstein? Answer. I knew he had
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: dealings with Bill Clinton. I did not know that they
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: were friends until I read the Vanity Fair article about
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: them going to Africa together. Macaulay. Did Jeffrey ever talk
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: to you about Bill Clinton? Answer. He said one time
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: that Clinton likes them young, referring to girls. Macaulay. Did
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: you ever, do you recall ever, taking a trip to
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's home in New Mexico? Answer. Yes. Macaulay. And
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: do you recall who went with you on that trip? Answer,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Sarah Kellen was there. Ghislaine was there. That's all I recall. Macaulay,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: do you recall where you went or why you went
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: on the trip to New Mexico? Answer, to work. Macaulay,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: did you perform massages on that trip? Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: did you? Do you recall whether you performed massages with
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Sarah Kellen on that trip? Answer, no. Macaulay, do you
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: recall in the New Mexico home ever observing nude photos
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: of females there? Answer, I don't recall. Macaulay, when you
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: would provide massages, would you provide those massages naked? Answer,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: on occasion. Macaulay, on average, would you be naked if
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: it was 100% of the time, more than 50% of
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: the time, or what? Answer, can you repeat it? Macaulay, sure.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: When you're performing the massages, can you tell me, you
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: said on occasion, over the five years that you worked
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: for him, how often did you perform massages naked? Answer,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: somewhere between 25 and 50% of the time. Macaulay, did
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Epstein try to make the massages sexual? Answer, on occasion. Macaulay,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: would Epstein have you rub his nipples? Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: would he masturbate during the massage? Answer, yes. Macaulay, did
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: he use sex toys or vibrators on you? Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: would he leave the sex toys or vibrators out after
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: the massage or would he clean up after himself? Manager. Objection. Vague. Form. Answer.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: He did not ever clean up. Macaulay. Do you believe
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: that your experience during the years you were with Jeffrey
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: and Maxwell damaged you? Manager. Objection. Leading. Form. Answer. It
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: affected me. Damaged is a strong word. Macaulay. And in
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: what way did it affect you? Answer. It affected future
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: relationships with men, trust issues, expectation issues. Macaulay. Did you
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: observe Nadia Marcinkova and Ghislaine at the house at the
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: same time? Manager, objection leading inform. Answer, I don't recall. Macaulay,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: on the USVI trip, the second trip that you took,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: do you recall Nadia Marcinkova being present? Answer, I believe
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: she was present on that trip. Macaulay, do you recall
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Maxwell being present on that trip? Answer, yes. Macaulay, do
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: you know an individual by the name of Redacted? Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: and who is Redacted? Answer, she was one of the
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: girls that was around. Macaulay, was Redacted around both Jeffrey
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell? Answer, I don't recall. Macaulay, do
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: you recall when you first met Redacted? Answer, in Palm Beach. Macaulay,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: at Jeffrey Epstein's home? Answer, yes. Macaulay, and what do
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: you recall any observations about Redacted when you met her? Answer,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: to speak with, she was a little rough around the edges,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: and I could see the progression of her being groomed
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: a little. They got her braces, she had terrible posture,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: and with a lot of massages, she learned to stand
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: up straight, so I just saw her become a much
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: more confident person. Macaulay, do you recall how old she
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: was when you first met her? Answer, I assume she
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: was 18, but I don't know her age. Macaulay, we're
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: going to take a break really quick, and then we'll
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: be back, so we are going to go off the record.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: And after a 10-minute break, they're back. Macaulay, I'm just
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: going to resume. I have a few more questions for you.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: You mentioned visiting the U.S. Virgin Islands. Do you recall
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: doing any activities with Maxwell when you were on the
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: visit to the USVI? Manager, objection. Vague as to time.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: The witness, I don't recall. Macaulay, do you ever recall
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: going hiking with her? Answer, yes. Macaulay, did Maxwell ever
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: ask you to try to bring other girls over for Jeffrey? Answer,
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: at that time? Macaulay, yes. Answer, no. Macaulay, any other time? Answer, well,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: she had asked me if I knew anyone that could
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: perform massages that would come to the house. Macaulay, and
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: what was your understanding of that request? Manager, objection. Answer, well, manager, form. Witness,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: I just wondered why they wouldn't just call me. Macaulay,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: and did you bring anybody else over to that house
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: to perform massage? Answer, I did not. Macaulay, when you
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: were either in the USVI or in Palm Beach, did
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: you ever observe any females either topless or naked by
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: the pool? Answer, yes. Macaulay, what did you observe? Answer,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: mostly skinny dipping. Macaulay, do you know who the individuals
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: were that you observed? Answer, Sarah Kellen and Ghislaine. Macaulay,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: anybody else? Answer, yes, but I don't recall who. Macaulay,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: did that happen on more than one occasion? Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: how often do you remember making those observations? Answer, three times. Macaulay,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: do you recall giving a statement to the police regarding
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein? Answer, yes. Macaulay, do you recall when you
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: gave that statement? Answer, I don't recall the date. Macaulay,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: do you recall the year? Answer, I want to say
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: it was early 2006 or late 2005. Macaulay, do you
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: recall who you met with? Answer, no. Macaulay, do you
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: recall what you told police? Answer, it was similar to this.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: They were asking me a lot of questions that I answered.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: They knew a lot. They knew what the bathroom looked like.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: They knew what the couch had a hot pink throw
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: on it with green tassels. I assumed that there had
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: been videos and they'd seen me. They had seen the videos.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: That's what I had assumed. I didn't know that maybe
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: people had already come forward and had given them statements.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: And just to interject the videos again, another person on
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: the inside talking about videos. Yet we have not seen
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: one single video. Question is, where are these videos? McCauley,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: did they ever talk to you at all about the videos? Answer,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: they said, were you aware that there were video cameras
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: in the house? I said no, but it would not
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: surprise me. Ms. McCauley, and I'm going to mark Exhibit 4.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Do you have an extra? Sorry, did you get one? Okay,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Roberts 002 through 89. And I'm going to direct you
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: to page 00076, and I'm going to hand it to you.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: The referred to document was marked by the court reporter
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: for identification as Schoberg Exhibit 4. Macaulay, I'm just going
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: to ask you to take a look at that. As
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: you can see here, under the narrative line there, there
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: is a name. It says reported by Rakari Joseph. Is
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: that a name you recall meeting with a detective, Detective Rakari? Answer, yes.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't recall his name, only except that
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: he had been following me around and left me cards
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: like on my car and in my door. I tried
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: to avoid him for a long time. Macaulay, and can
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: you just look at the text underneath there? Answer, uh-huh. McCauley,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: take a moment to look at that. Answer, okay, sure. McCauley,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: does that refresh your recollection as to what you told
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the police during the investigation? Answer, there are mistakes in here.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: I was not 23 when I met him. I was 21. McCauley,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: anything else that doesn't look correct? Answer, the same error.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: That I had met him three years ago and it
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: obviously had been closer to five. There is also the error,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: he obviously misunderstood me. He did not pay for my
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: tuition at college. I'm still paying those school loans, but
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: he did pay for me to go to massage school
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: and cosmetology school. Okay, it pretty much ends here. Macaulay, yes, right,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: about halfway through the page. Answer, okay. Miss Macaulay, so, Johanna,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: that concludes my initial piece. I'm going to reserve the
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: rest of my time for redirect. I'm going to turn
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: it over to Laura. Manager, who is Laura, can we
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: just take a little break? Macaulay, sure, no problem. the
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: videographer off the record at 10.05. So that looks like
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: the perfect place for us to take a break as well.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: And then when we pick back up, we'll get to
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: the cross-examination by Laura Menninger. All of the information that
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: goes with this episode can be found in the description box.