Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.361: revela Is Leading The Way Towards Reversing Hair Loss With Their Hair Revival Serum

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E.361: revela Is Leading The Way Towards Reversing Hair Loss With Their Hair Revival Serum · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Diablo 4 has arrived.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: The forces of L gather only units in their way.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Journey across the expanse of open world sanctuary.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Cross progression of all platforms.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to 4.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Available now.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Weighted and premature.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Cap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: So the first episode I wanted to actually mention that this is a very special episode for me because I found this to be so interesting, what David and his team have discovered.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have gone ahead and have written a wonderful review article about hair growth.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And regroup is a post in Harry Manuel Women.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think this is an incredible area of research.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's extremely innovative what they're doing, and I really, really am a huge fan of new technology, new innovation.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So check it out.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully, you know, you guys see the results that are definitely um, you know, just viable to expect from such an amazing formulation.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, check it out, and I hope you guys love the episode.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you guys are having a lovely week.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited once again for this episode because now we're finally talking about things that are really, really important in dermatology, such as hair um regrowth.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And this topic I've been really wanting to focus on because um, you know, there's not much information out there.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm not gonna rant too much, but I want to introduce you guys to my guest today, who is the co-founder and chief scientific officer for which is a wonderful line um for over-the-counter hair, regrowth, hair health.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, David Zang.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, David.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to host you.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for having me.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Super excited to uh chat about science and hair, and you know, very excited.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, likewise, I'm so thrilled that we're actually doing this because um, like I said, you know, there's very little information out there about hair regrowth, and just I know a lot of people suffer from it.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not just before it used to be like, you know, you see people saying, Oh, you know, my uncle is balding or something, right?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: But now it's like even with women, you know, women are always experiencing hair loss, and we're always experiencing like, you know, these kinds of but I I'll I'll dive into that, David.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: But let's get started with you first.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: I want to uh learn all about you, uh, you know, and your background.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could walk us down memory lane and tell us all about Ravella and how it started and um yeah, all the good stuff.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I think Ravella is an interesting, very different from a lot of other brands.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we were founded by a team of scientists and engineers.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: I myself was an immunologist and I've been spending my entire life basically developing these next generation cancer therapeutics.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: And we really all kind of got together when the world shut down in 2020.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, we were sent home from our labs.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think one thing that's you know already very different about us is our origin story is really one that's kind of born out of frustration and a little bit of anger.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe as an example, um, you know, I distinctly remember during that time, I one day my mom called me being like, hey, you know, David, I found something that can help prevent and treat COVID.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, keep in mind this was way before the vaccines had come out.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: So like mom's like, what is it?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, it she shows me this supplement, and you know, I look through the ingredients and I'm thinking, like, there is nothing in here that's actually gonna do anything to help you.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the probably most active ingredient in there was vitamin C, which is such a shame because you have these companies that are effectively spamming people like my mom upwards of like hundreds of dollars for stuff like vitamin C.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that's wrong.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I was really upset.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's really stories like that upon which Rivella was built.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, we're really focused on trying to find new and better ingredients to make more effective products, uh, not just in you know, skincare, hair care, but also all throughout and consumer wellness as a whole.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and yeah, I I hear you about the the story about your mom.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, actually, my my parents go through the same thing.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, stop buying things that you know for sure.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's a shame because they, you know, it's like you have these consumers that are really, really looking for the things that are answers, you know, especially when it's like something like a health crisis, you know, global health like COVID, you know, everyone wants answer.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, really, yeah, taking advantage of people, and that's really wrong.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, 100% agree with you.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and I for everyone listening, I just want to like throw some stats out there because I know that hair loss is a is an area that people don't really, we I mean, I think we don't know much about it as consumers.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, you know, just to let you guys know, on average, we're supposed to be losing like 50 to 100 strands a day, you know, and that's normal.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, but unfortunately with the rise of just, you know, for example, uh, women are more prone to autoimmune disorders.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have an autoimmune disorder, you're gonna start losing more hair.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so a lot of women experience balding, you know, and men obviously, I know this has been an issue with like, you know, testosterone dysfunction and stuff.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: But David, I want to talk to you about that, you know, when you guys were really coming up with that this idea, you know, what were some of the statistics, some of the things that you're looking at that really kind of fueled the research?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think the biggest thing for us was actually in terms of solutions.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: So if you think about the solutions that are out there to treat hair loss, it's rather limited, right?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: So there are only two FDA-proof drugs, both of which are uh predominantly for men.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we actually did this study looking at you know ingredients that have been used in not just hair care, but also in skincare over the last several decades.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: And what was really striking was that we found that you know there was a lot of new ingredients that were coming out until about the mid-1990s, and then there's just this sharp drop-off.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: So effectively in the last 30-ish years, there just hasn't been any new advances in terms of ingredients, right?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: So uh that are being used in a lot of these different hair products.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you think about it, you know, when you think about a product, you have everything that's on the outside, uh, you know, packaging, you know, whatever else, however else is being marketed, but really what determines the effectiveness of the product and the results you're gonna see are what's on the inside, right?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that comes down to the ingredients themselves.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so the fact that, you know, no one has really been pushing new ingredients out there.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: We thought that was the biggest uh the in terms of statistics, that was the biggest challenge.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's sort of our approach.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we are essentially an ingredient discovery engine, and we set out to find a completely new ingredient to help women with uh hair thinning and hair loss specifically.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's really uh you know, this solution-oriented mentality.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: I always say on the podcast, you know, that's the true spirit of science is solution.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and it's very few brands that are doing that, you know.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's many people in this industry, unfortunately, because we're dealing with the beauty industry, you know, mixed with dermatology and mixed with science, we see so much fluff, you know, and we see so yeah, and it's it's it's becoming it's becoming a serious issue because I I kid you not, David, you know, I know before even this podcast started, I knew people that were putting things in their hair, um, trying to prevent hair loss, yeah.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: That led to them losing their hair, you know.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you see that and you're just like, oh my gosh, you know, so there's no regulation at all for over the counter.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's no regular, you know.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to talk about that.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I know that you know, I love that you're ingredient focused.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you're results driven um at Ravella, but I want to talk to you about what were some of the things that you really avoided in in creating this, you know, formula or things that you might have found, you know, through the journey that um were not things we should put into a formulation for something like this.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we did our research, we really tried to focus on the ingredients that are out there that currently do work, and those ended up as supporting ingredients in our formula.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, our process is really focused on finding the key ingredients that can help with uh hair loss and hair thinning.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, our approach really we took this approach that I think is very unique, uh, especially among the space of beauty and wellness, um, because it's very expensive.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't take any assumptions.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: We did a lot of science, a lot of testing, a lot of clinical testing to really tease out and find the best possible ingredients to help with hair thinning and hair loss.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, that process is not one that I feel a lot of other brands are doing, partly because, like I was saying, it's very expensive.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you also risk not finding anything.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so, of course, we were very happy to have found a uh unique ingredient proselenol, which uh is very effective um in the lab and also in the clinic.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so tell me about like what what you found in terms of the efficacy of this ingredient.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what were you really looking for?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: What were the parameters that you were looking for?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let me walk you through sort of our approach.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we took we took no assumptions.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: We started with uh you can think of these as little models, um, and we had millions of these little or sorry, thousands of these little models, which um we were particularly focused on these cells called these uh follicle dormopapilla cells.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: So these are the cells that are found at the root of your hair follicle.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And through years of research, it's been relatively well established that if these cells are in a healthier state, if they're actively um proliferating, metabolically active, then you're gonna have healthier hair and more hair growth as a result.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we started with these cells, we cultured them in a bunch of these little models in these little plates, and we tested a bunch of different ingredients.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you think about it, there's billions of ingredients out there, right?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of all about finding the ones that are most effective for you know what you're specifically looking for.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's really difficult to test millions and billions of ingredients in a dish.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's extremely expensive.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this is typically what a lot of the drug companies do, and they'll spend millions of dollars doing it.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes they won't find anything that you know actually do what they want it to do.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we're very focused on these specific cells and their responses because we know that if they're responding in the way that we want, then generally that will lead to more hair growth and the biological, physiological response that we want to see.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so we'll test a few thousand ingredients and then we'll use that data to train our machine learning deep learning algorithms.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you can think of this as you know, this is a computer that's able to find these patterns.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: If every ingredient is like a slightly different shape, it's able to find these different shapes and different ingredients that are more effective.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so we use this computer essentially to find other ingredients in this much larger space of millions and billions of ingredients to find the best possible ones for this specific uh output that we're looking for, which is uh you know the proliferation of these cells.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so in that way, we find you know the top performing ingredients, and then we test them in the lab very rigorously to narrow it down to the one that we move on to clinical testing, and of course, then we find that that's the most effective uh one.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so that ended up being preselenol, and we found in our clinical test that 97% of women saw improved appearance in their hair, 87% saw less shedding, and 82% saw new hair growth overall, which is uh pretty pretty solid.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is amazing.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's very cool that you have gone through this entire scientific process to find this ingredient.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's I think uh for me, when I think about new ingredients and the discovery of uh you know new solutions, it's like most of the time it's like some old woman, you know, somewhere in Wisconsin found this, you know, extract.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's like a huge thing, right?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of you know new ingredients that people find are just sort of by happenstance, it just randomly happens, right?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you get lucky and whatnot.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, this approach is very intentional, and I think that's part of uh the philosophy at Ravella.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: We're really focused um on ingredients and new ingredients, and then you know, the intended results from there.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: So everything is very intentional in what we do.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, what like what do you suggest in terms of how long people should stick to the therapy?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know that you know, this is a world where we want instant results and everyone's looking for instant results, but unfortunately, our cells, you know, as you know, David, they don't they don't respond, you know, instantly.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I want you to really talk to our listeners about that.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh say, you know, I'm a consumer, I buy the product, and now how long should I be using it?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is actually a really great question because it points towards this larger issue uh in terms of expectations, right?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I feel like now a lot of companies and brands are sort of pushing towards instant results, like you know, uh with Amazon Prime, like we everyone wants stuff delivered instantly, right?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: And we want to see the same effects on our skin, on our hair, and everything else.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, if you think about hair as a whole, like physiologically, biologically, uh it takes time for hair to grow, right?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a really important thing that I think some consumers don't quite uh realize.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like it does take time.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um but the ones that do realize it, you know, I think they're in a much better place to kind of really understand and you know where all these other products lie in the space.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're really proud of our product because we found that generally speaking, most people will see results about four times faster than the gold standard in the field, which is uh monoxidol, which is the active ingredient found in rogain.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so generally what our customers will see is you know, with daily consistent use, in about four to six weeks, you'll start seeing little baby hairs coming out.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's there's this kind of like period of lag, and that's like the first four or six weeks.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: But then after that, around the six to eight week mark, that's when you'll start seeing a little bit more hair starting to come out.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it is a long period of time, and it requires you know a lot of patience and dedication and just consistent use.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but definitely for hair, you know, that is just biologically that's how we're limited, right?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can't really grow hair much faster.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, it's like the average uh hair growth is like what, like half an inch per month.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, exactly, exactly.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's actually really important.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad that you said that.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm and I wanted you to say it so everyone listening can can really because it's like you know, hair is very different.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, especially when we're thinking about the fact that we're working with mostly just the scalp, you know, so you're not don't look at the rest of your hair and be like, well, you know, my hair grows fast or this, blah, blah, blah.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, you have to really think about you're treating the scalp, you know, and you're really like waiting for all of that, all those mechanisms, all those pathways to kick in.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's something I'm really trying through this podcast for people that are not science oriented to start to understand is that there's this, you know, molecular level of signaling that's happening in every cell in your body, whether that's your hair, that's your skin, that's your liver, your kidneys.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to, and you know, going back to your point, David, people are in this Amazon Prime kind of you know mindset where they're like, Well, I want hair instantly.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, buy a wig if that's what you want.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, absolutely, absolutely.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, so I think that that's very important for us to understand.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, with women, I actually want to talk to you about this.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: When you were doing your, I guess, the um epidemiological data, I guess you could call it, with women.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: You uh, you know, do you find how do you look for candidates?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know that uh more than 50% of women these days suffer from some sort of autoimmune disorder, which is also linked to um more, you know, I guess progressive hair loss.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So how was that approach?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: You you mean in our clinical testing?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's actually fairly standardized.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a lot of these clinical tests uh sort of the when it comes to recruiting certain subjects, uh, you know, there's a sort of standardized list of exclusion criteria and inclusion criteria.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one thing we actually learned early on is uh we included a lot of women who actively sort of treated their hair chemically, um, either by dyes or whatever else, or like perms, etc.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so actually that was a big barrier in early on because then we weren't really able to assess sort of how well their hair was growing because it just looked so physically different.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um but there's a relatively standard list of uh inclusion and exclusion criteria uh for a lot of these clinical tests.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, certainly when it comes to autoimmunity, generally for those, we don't include a lot of those subjects because, for example, for alopecia arietta, it is an autoimmune disorder where your own immune cells are actively going around and destroying your hair follicles.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something that our serum doesn't specifically address.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh obviously we haven't tested that clinically, um, but or that specific uh observation clinically.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but uh yeah, I I think for more complicated autoimmune disorders, you know, generally we don't include those subjects in our clinical tests.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and also I think I should have asked, like, you know, I should have rephrased that question better because more so it's about my um concern of testing, you know, when it comes to clinical trials, I always um try to figure out if a brand has been inclusive with you know who they've tested.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if you test on a white woman in New Zealand, you know, that's not gonna tell me as an Indian woman how my hair is growing.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah, no, yeah, for that, you know, definitely we knew especially actually um, you know, speaking of uh COVID earlier on, like a lot of the clinical trials with COVID were done on very specific uh races and ethnicities, right?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so you know a lot of data just didn't translate when it came to phase two or phase three testing when you have these much larger sort of global populations of individuals, and that's something we recognize really early on.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: So all our clinical tests have you know good representation um across you know different races and ethnicities and also very different hair types.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's you know, that's kind of like a segue for me to ask you, David, from the research that you've seen out there.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is there a difference?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like did you find a difference between like I guess like darker hair types and lighter in terms of just hair loss, or was there no difference really?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's something else.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think some of the differences are not directly related to hair color, for example, or hair type.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, at the cellular level, generally they're more or less the same, at least the dermal papilla cells.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, the major distinguishing factor is actually age.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: So if your cells are older, then obviously they're going to be a little bit less active and they might proliferate a little bit less, they might be uh less metabolically active.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but in terms of you know color and everything else, then that it doesn't really change in terms of the uh the dermal papilla cells, which are the key cells that we're focused on at the base of your uh hair follicles.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's see, that's very important.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm glad that you clarified that because, you know, this conversation um actually came up come oh my god, I can't speak.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: It comes up a lot during uh, you know, people and their skin types too, right?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: So people ask me, what about more melanated skin versus not?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, does that make a difference in the kind of skincare you use?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's you know, you're really further validating this idea that your cells don't know what color you are, your cells don't know you know, and so we have to approach things in this more mindful way, I think, um, as a just as a normal population of consumers, you know, it's like um there's a lot of people that are skeptical out there.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's really why I ask you these questions, you know.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, absolutely, and which is why I think you know, podcasts like yours are so important and really just distilling this information and you know making sure that people actually are getting the right information because you know, like we've seen, there's just so much wrong information out there.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, worst case, like it's or I guess the best case is that it doesn't do anything.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but worst case, like a lot of this actively goes out to hurt people, and that's a really terrible thing, right?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: So no, absolutely, absolutely.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing has been quite the, you know, yeah when it comes to really catching consumers and and wasting people's money.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I totally agree with you.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, I'm very thrilled that you you guys have created something very real here and that it's truly rooted in science.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the things that I think is very, very hard and gets lost in translation between, you know, bench research and just getting a product out there to consumers is this understanding of how much work goes behind discovery.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we love talking about, you know, well, finally we found, you know, a cure, but it's like when we think about how much money and investment and time that science has put into finding the solution, um, I think as consumers, it's very important for us to be aware of that.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's important for us to do our homework with that.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, for everyone listening, if you are someone who's experiencing hair loss and it's something that you're really struggling with, you know, this is why I I have really wanted David to come on the show is because this is a product that's really backed by scientists, you know, and and people, the real research is there.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: So invest in this, you know, don't waste your money on those homeopathic remedies you'll see on whatever channel or whatever, you know, go for the science.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is where it is, you know.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think, you know, as consumers, you're finally getting there, but it's it's yeah, I I can't stress it enough.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have to go what's been tested, what's been true.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: So for sure.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I really appreciate you saying that, Ecta.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, part of our mission is also really to challenge brands as well, because when we kind of came went about our whole approach of you know, finding new ingredients and seeing what's right out there, the fact that there just hasn't been any new innovation, at least in hair, and it's very similar in skin in the last sort of 30 years in terms of completely new ingredients, it kind of signaled to us that you know companies aren't really even trying to find new ingredients, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: They realize that they can probably spend less money on marketing and they can sell more.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: And for them, that's their bottom line, right?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so we really wanted to you know change that status quo and really uh push not just consumers and to increase their expectations, but also brands as well.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, good people deserve the best, and it's also part of the responsibility of all these brands to make sure that they're delivering the best.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you're you know, it's very important that someone paves the road to this no BS solution or I'm really glad that you guys are you know on the front lines with that.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hair care definitely is very lacking in solutions, you know, and and it's very much lacking in this, uh especially with hair growth and especially given how big of a problem it is globally.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like we exactly I mean, even recently, David, I mean, I was so shocked, you know, recently within the last year, I started seeing dermatologists going mainstream with this idea too, you know.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, finally we're talking about this because it was so, you know, hush-hush for so long, you know, people were hair, and you know, it was something that I understand, you know, we have a lot of self-esteem tied to our hair and all of that.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it was not really being talked about on social media.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: But in the last year, I've seen that the awareness is starting to go up, even in the medical community, you know, as far as we need to educate consumers, we need to educate people on you know what it means when you start losing hair.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's it is a like you said, like an age-related problem, you know, and and you know, brands coming up, you know, not just in hair care, but you know, brands coming up for menopause, brands coming up.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is very, very cool, you know.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: I like seeing this.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, I'm really glad you mentioned that because I really think it's amazing how a lot more dermatologists are talking about it now.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And as you mentioned, like hair is definitely something that's very sensitive and it's something that's very tied to sort of our appearance and sort of how others perceive us and how we perceive ourselves.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really, really great that a lot more clinicians are talking about it and are educating customers.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I really believe that it really takes a whole village, a concerted effort of you know, clinicians, scientists, but also like stylists and uh all these other people to really inform everyone about you know what's really going on and to really help dispel all the misinformation that's out there.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree with you.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you know, that's another thing.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you brought up stylists because that that was a point I really wanted to touch on was this um the concept of just the the, I guess, the experience of using the product.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: So for everyone listening, you know, the hair serum is very light.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very easy to incorporate into your daily routine.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's not something that's gonna weigh down your roots, it's not something that's going to like, you know, really kind of cause any kind of problems when it comes to hair styling and the look that you want, which is something I think is is wonderful.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you guys did that intentionally, David, but it's it's a beautiful product, you know, in that way as well.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you saying that.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely wanted to find something and formulate something that's really as lightweight as you can get it.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: So you can just apply it on first thing before you layer on everything else, and it just feels like nothing.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: That was really important for us.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, and that's exactly what it is.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, I mean, I don't suffer from hair loss, but I've been using it, you know, since I received it.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's actually made me feel like, you know, for me, it's very important to have healthy hair.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I always want to have healthy hair, and I think all of us are like that.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: So even if you're not experiencing hair loss, I mean, it's a really great thing to add into your routine because you know, it's uh promoting healthy scalp, you know, healthy scalp.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we want.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, for us as I guess scientists sitting here talking, we know the importance of preventative care, right?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I always I I like I feel like as consumers, we often wait till the problem is there at our doorstep to address it.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, you know, there's nothing wrong with taking preventative measures.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I definitely think that you know, Rivella is it's there for hair regrowth, but I think it's also a great preventative tool as well.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um for yeah, yeah.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's a really important point.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that the way our active ingredient that you know we found through this whole uh very long and extensive scientific process, the way selanol works is really by pushing the health of your hair follicles towards this healthier state.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like you're saying, in terms of preventative care, that it can be really important.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we haven't done the specific clinical studies necessary to look at preventative care.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but from a theoretical perspective, it should definitely help.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's and that's the thing.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, if the ingredients are helping on the follicle level, follicular level, and the cellular level, it's going to help you in the long run.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I I really am trying to say here and reiterate is that it's not a band-aid, it's a real solution.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, yeah, and the thing is now that we're we're coming into this area where millennials are approaching that age group.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're like I'm in 30s, you know, I'm soon to be 50, and 50 is that age that you start losing your hair.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's true.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and so it's there's no harm in investing in products that are there to just help you with this journey, help it so it's not so drastic.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't have to go through what the older generations went through, right?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would I can't imagine what it feels like to be a 55-year-old woman.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you start seeing your hair coming out in chunks, and you know, it must be devastating.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: So to avoid that, you know, let's let's start working towards better health is really my point, you know, overall.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, David, I'm a huge fan.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think what you've created here as a scientist, I I really hats off to you and your team.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is really groundbreaking stuff.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And for everyone listening, I'm going to be tagging everything in the concept art for this, as well as creating some more um informatic, you know, and informative graphics around um really the product and the and just overall hair health.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: So please check them out, you know, on our feed and leave us some questions because I think it's really important to ask questions.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you guys don't know, ask, you know, and it's okay because hair is like, you know, David, hair is an area that really people aren't talking about right now.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: So no, for sure.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I I really think it's I I love how you mentioned, you know, really ask questions, and that's something that we really stand by.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like all of the founders take customer service calls, you know.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: So if someone calls, if you call us, we just might be on the other side of the line.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: And we love getting questions from people because that's really how you get the conversation started, right?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how you get really deep into really understanding sort of what might be going on, how we might be able to help, et cetera, et cetera.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: So asking questions is so, so important in this whole process for sure.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you guys are really, you know, on the front lines and you're there for your consumers.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's a huge, huge thing.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: And most brands don't do that.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I I really love hearing that, you know, and so yeah, I mean, you heard it from David.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: You guys, if you have questions, ask them.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay to ask.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like hair growth, you know, I I always feel so bad because I think people are very ashamed, you know, when they start experiencing these symptoms.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I understand that it's tied to body positivity and it's tied to so many emotions, you know, but if we don't, we're never gonna find a solution.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um, you know, Ravella is definitely, like I said, paving the way.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's there, you know, as a real option.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we are, I mean, for me, I think that's very important to understand is that here's a real option, here's a real solution, you know, go for it, kind of thing.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely let me know, you guys, everyone listening, if you have questions, comments, anything.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And David, thank you so much.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: This has been seriously awesome.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh learning from thank you so much, Eka, for having me on.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like I definitely remember when we first kind of got into uh this whole space.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: You you guys, you're one of the first podcasts that we listened to because uh what you're trying to accomplish here, I think is so so important overall.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Very honored to be on here.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, it it's truly my honor to host you, and I think um, you know, Ravella is you guys are doing really great things, you know, and I think that's it's very hard to find that in this kind of space of beauty, the beauty industry, hair hair industry, and science mixed together is meaningful products that are solution-oriented.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very, very difficult feat.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and the fact that you guys are just tackling it head on, I mean, you know, truly, truly hats off.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um, again, congratulations on your recent graduation.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone listening, David is officially a PhD.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's Dr.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Zhang.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, like I said, you know, I'll I'll post everything up.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you, David.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 34:21
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• 34:26
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• 34:29
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• 35:09
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• 35:26
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