Latest / WriterCon / New Takes on Mystery with Erica Wright

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New Takes on Mystery with Erica Wright · WriterCon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This week on the writer Con podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: You know, I always.
• 0:04
  Speaker 3: Tell writers that to celebrate the small successes along the way,
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: and that could include anything for finishing a difficult chapter,
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: to you getting some positive feedback, to publishing a short story,
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  Speaker 3: because I feel like we get so focused on what's
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: the next.
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  Speaker 2: Rung the ladder.
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  Speaker 4: Welcome to writer Kon, a gathering place for writers to
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  Speaker 4: share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Do
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: you have a desire to write? Every successful writer started
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  Speaker 4: with their first book. All it takes is determination and knowledge,
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  Speaker 4: and writer Con can provide that knowledge. Your hosts are
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  Speaker 4: number one national best selling writer William Bernhardt, author of
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  Speaker 4: more than sixty books, including The Superman Wars, and Laura Bernhardt,
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  Speaker 4: Award winning author of the Wantlan File series and Shadow
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  Speaker 4: of the taj.
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  Speaker 5: Thank you, Jesse Ulrich. Hey there, writers, thanks for joining
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  Speaker 5: us today. I want to talk about my concerns about
• 0:59
  Speaker 5: a new wave of author targeted scams. I mean, if
• 1:03
  Speaker 5: you've been writing along, you've been subjected to fake email
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  Speaker 5: trying to get your money or your contact information. But
• 1:10
  Speaker 5: now there's a new wave of supposedly smart AI generated
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  Speaker 5: email that pretends to be an agent who's really interested
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  Speaker 5: in your work, but thanks to AI now the email
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  Speaker 5: might include the title of your book or some other
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  Speaker 5: superficial information about Joe or something that was gleaned from interview.
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  Speaker 5: Don't be fooled. These are scams. If you have any
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  Speaker 5: questions about the validity of an author offer, go to
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  Speaker 5: writer Beware. A great website follows all these writers scammed,
• 1:43
  Speaker 5: and they can tell you what's up and what you
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  Speaker 5: should believe in. But generally, anytime anybody comes out of
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  Speaker 5: nowhere and once your information so you can make tons
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  Speaker 5: of money, that's a scam. Real agents rarely reach out
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  Speaker 5: to unknown authors, unless, of course, your book just sold
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  Speaker 5: a million copies or something. So don't let those people
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  Speaker 5: get your information or your money. Laura, I heard you
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  Speaker 5: murmuring back there. Have you seen any of these scams yet.
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  Speaker 6: Not one that purports to be from an agent. But
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  Speaker 6: I'm getting a lot of them that claim to be
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  Speaker 6: marketers or promoters or someone else who's going to help
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  Speaker 6: my book gain traction. And you're exactly right. They are
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  Speaker 6: using my full name, and they are describing the book's content,
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  Speaker 6: and it's not anything that couldn't be gleaned from For example,
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  Speaker 6: the description on the Amazon page. But it's still pretty
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  Speaker 6: impressive that it's so targeted and personal. I heard one
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  Speaker 6: come to me that sounded like it was someone who'd
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  Speaker 6: actually read the book, and I started to engage them,
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  Speaker 6: but as soon as I answered, it turned into, oh,
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  Speaker 6: let me help you promote your book. And that was
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  Speaker 6: the very first one that I received, and now I'm
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  Speaker 6: onto it, so I know not to open those.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, another sign might be where they keep hiding the
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  Speaker 5: ball in terms of what this is going to cost,
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  Speaker 5: because anybody reputable would be willing to tell you this upfront.
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  Speaker 5: But if they keep delaying and delaying, not a good sign. Jesse,
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  Speaker 5: I remember you saying before that you thought AI was
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  Speaker 5: okay as long as it isn't doing the work of creatives. Well,
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  Speaker 5: here's AI doing what really only AI can do, scrounging
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  Speaker 5: all over the internet to get factoids they can stick
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  Speaker 5: in an email to scam people. It's not really what
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  Speaker 5: i'd call creative work, but it's definitely AI.
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  Speaker 4: I would say it actually is very creative work because
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  Speaker 4: scams used to take work and energy, and for our listeners,
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  Speaker 4: a very easy scam test is like, actually look at
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  Speaker 4: the physical email address that the thing came from, and
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  Speaker 4: you can probably most of the time you intell just
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  Speaker 4: by looking at it whether it's real or not.
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  Speaker 5: So like if it's not a comprehensible dot com.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, or if it tries this and then you
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  Speaker 4: swim as they try to hide the actual email address,
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  Speaker 4: and so you know, if it's saying it's coming from
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  Speaker 4: a company, but that company's name is not in the
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  Speaker 4: email address, it is probably is ninety nine percent a scam.
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  Speaker 5: So I think that's great advice.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I don't want AI doing scams either. I want out there.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I want people getting paid money to do these scams. Okay,
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  Speaker 4: keep keep humans and scam jobs.
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  Speaker 5: No, you got to stand up for what you believe, Jesse.
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  Speaker 5: All Right, Today we're interviewing poet and novelist Erica Wright.
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  Speaker 5: Her previous mystery was called Hollow Bones, which was called,
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  Speaker 5: among other things, quote an incredibly rich work of literature
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  Speaker 5: end quote. And now she has a new what people
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  Speaker 5: are calling a psychic mystery, called The Museum of Unusual Occurrence.
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  Speaker 5: We will talked about her about that and so much more.
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  Speaker 5: But first the news news story number one Hashet cancels
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  Speaker 5: an AI slop book. Yes, we're talking about Hashet Book Group,
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  Speaker 5: one of the Big Five, one of the largest publishers
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  Speaker 5: doing business in the United States. They have pulled a almost
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: immediately forthcoming horror novel called Shy Girl after a New
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  Speaker 5: York Times article alleged that the author, Mia Ballard, relied
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  Speaker 5: heavily on AI again artificial intelligence to write the book.
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  Speaker 5: She originally self published the book, then it was picked
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  Speaker 5: up by Hashet in the UK, where it's been on
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  Speaker 5: sale for months. The book concerns a desperate young woman
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: who's held hostage by a man she met online and
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  Speaker 5: is then forced to live as his pet. The author
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  Speaker 5: has denied using AI to write the book. She says
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: that an acquaintance she hired to edit the book must
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  Speaker 5: be the one who used AI.
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  Speaker 6: Quote.
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  Speaker 5: This controversy has changed my life in many ways, and
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  Speaker 5: my mental health is at an all time low, and
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  Speaker 5: my name is ruined for something I didn't even personally do.
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  Speaker 5: Here's one more thing I need to add add. Hashet
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  Speaker 5: knew about this controversy well before that New York Times
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  Speaker 5: article ran, though, because it was being discussed a lot
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  Speaker 5: and hotly online by readers who notice things like repetitive
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  Speaker 5: phrasing words and phrases that come up over and over again,
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  Speaker 5: metaphors that don't really land, that is, they don't really
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  Speaker 5: make any sense. You can find still many analyzes of
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  Speaker 5: this book on Reddit, and there's a detailed YouTube video
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  Speaker 5: which reveals all the evidence of what they call slopitude.
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  Speaker 5: The author has responded that Hashet remained silent until the
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  Speaker 5: New York Times took up the case and then they
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  Speaker 5: pulled the book. Lara, does any of this surprise you.
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  Speaker 6: It's a little bit alarming to me. I think that
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  Speaker 6: there's a huge wave of people readers who are trying
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  Speaker 6: to accuse authors yep of using AI. And I'm just
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  Speaker 6: a little alarmed because most of the time what they're
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  Speaker 6: using to determine AI is ope, you used M dashes
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  Speaker 6: that must be AI. Ohe you used heightened vocabulary that
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  Speaker 6: must be AI, used big words, I don't understand, you
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  Speaker 6: must have written it with AI. So I'm a little
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  Speaker 6: bit concerned that there are some people who are being
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  Speaker 6: accused of things that they haven't done.
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  Speaker 5: Sure, I don't think this is a case of that.
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  Speaker 6: This may not be a case of that, but it's
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  Speaker 6: not going to help any of us because we do
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  Speaker 6: know that there's a lot of a slap out there.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, but it doesn't normally come from a Big five publisher.
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  Speaker 4: You know, the publisher, Like it's a publisher's job to
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: make sure they're not publishing.
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  Speaker 1: It shouldn't be on it should be on internet detectives.
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  Speaker 5: I mean the fact, yes, the fact that so many
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  Speaker 5: people online could figure it out without trying very hard
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  Speaker 5: makes me wonder if anybody that hash had even read.
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  Speaker 6: The book or they published it.
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  Speaker 5: And remember she self published it, so it must have
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: been racking up sales and then they bought it, right,
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  Speaker 5: you would think they read it first.
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  Speaker 6: You would think that they actually looked at that and
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  Speaker 6: maybe had an editor work with her see what might
• 8:50
  Speaker 6: need to be improved. So you'd think that somebody would
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  Speaker 6: have disturbing Why is everybody angry at the author? Geez,
• 9:02
  Speaker 6: I agree with Jesse, it's on the publisher. Yeah, they
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  Speaker 6: they bought it. They should have been more proactive.
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  Speaker 4: Amazon doesn't care about AI slop. We know this, other
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: than limiting the amount of books you can publish in
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  Speaker 4: a day.
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  Speaker 1: That was the one thing they've done.
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  Speaker 4: So like, it has to be on the you know,
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  Speaker 4: the people who are putting money and time behind an
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  Speaker 4: IP to check on these things. And on top of that, again, listeners,
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  Speaker 4: we talk about AI a lot on the show.
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  Speaker 1: I just want to be clear what exactly we mean.
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  Speaker 4: Like, all these AI things are what are called large
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  Speaker 4: language models, which is really just a massive amount of
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  Speaker 4: data of books and ideas and you just run your
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  Speaker 4: thing through that. So it's not it's not even creating anything.
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  Speaker 4: It's just using things that it already has access to.
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  Speaker 4: And so like you know, it's not a brain coming
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  Speaker 4: up with an idea, and so because so that it's
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  Speaker 4: going to make weird mistakes. And again, always like I
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  Speaker 4: don't know, check your work. Even if I sent somebody
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  Speaker 4: something to an editor to edit, I would look to
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  Speaker 4: see what their changes and suggestions were for just automatically
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  Speaker 4: you know, you know, hitting the check mark on a
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  Speaker 4: Google doc to change whatever the word is.
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  Speaker 5: You know, that New York Times article I mentioned suggested
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  Speaker 5: that over seventy percent of the book had been written
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  Speaker 5: by AI. Lot the editor must have done a lot
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  Speaker 5: of aim.
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  Speaker 6: So what surprises me is that it wasn't caught yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 6: by someone.
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  Speaker 5: If it's obvious to people on the internet, why wasn't
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  Speaker 5: it obvious to the publisher.
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  Speaker 6: Right okay.
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  Speaker 5: News story number two. Tracy Wolf has been absolved of
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: plagiarism charges. A judge in the Southern District of New
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  Speaker 5: York ruled that Tracy Wolf did not plagiar eyes when
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: she created her Ya Fantasy's Crave. She was sued by
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: a writer named Lynn Freeman, who alleged that this series,
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  Speaker 5: which by the way, was published by Entangled, same person
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  Speaker 5: that's publishing Rebecca Yarros and others, and the judge said
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  Speaker 5: that it was quote substantial I'm sorry that Lynn Freeman
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  Speaker 5: said that the book was substantially similar to one of
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  Speaker 5: her unpublished manuscripts. In the court's ruling, the judge wrote
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  Speaker 5: that quote Freeman's novel and Wolfe's Crave novels are indeed similar,
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  Speaker 5: but only in the ways that all young adult romanticy
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  Speaker 5: fiction novels are similar to each other has been The
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  Speaker 5: court adds, quote hot sexy, dangerous boys, central to virtually
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  Speaker 5: all young adult romance novels, cannot be copyrighted.
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  Speaker 1: Damn right, you can't copyright tropes.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. The judge empathy here. The judge said that
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  Speaker 5: she read six drafts of the plaintiff's work and four
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  Speaker 5: of the Crave novels. That's more than six thousand pages
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  Speaker 5: of romanticy but found nothing more than like Jesse was saying,
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  Speaker 5: common tropes. This is probably not what she thought she
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  Speaker 5: was going to be doing when she went to law
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  Speaker 5: school or when she was appointed to the Finch. Jesse again,
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  Speaker 5: does this surprise you?
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  Speaker 4: It doesn't, I mean again, like what's the old saying?
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  Speaker 4: Like every story's already been told, Like, especially in very
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  Speaker 4: specific genre fiction books are gonna be similar. There's only
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  Speaker 4: so many ways to tell of a magical school, vampires,
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  Speaker 4: sexy vampires, you know.
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  Speaker 5: Especially if it's romance, then there's yeah, like it's boys.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah there there are there are you know, there are
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  Speaker 4: there are tropes in every genre, and a good author
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  Speaker 4: takes those tropes and makes something unique out of it.
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  Speaker 4: But like it's its ingredients are things that already exist
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  Speaker 4: in the world, and so you know, you can think,
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  Speaker 4: you know, like that there was a person who came
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  Speaker 4: up with actually think it was someone who's in trouble now,
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  Speaker 4: but came up with a almost Harry Potter esque.
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  Speaker 1: Story before JK. Rowling. But like again magical learning school,
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  Speaker 1: like does X men get the.
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  Speaker 4: Copyright on magical schools for special people, right, Like, it's
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  Speaker 4: these are things that just exist in the ether, so
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  Speaker 4: you got to be creative with it.
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  Speaker 5: So, Laura, that leads to the question, how do you
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  Speaker 5: Where do you draw the line between common tropes and
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: stealing other people's work?
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: I think how much similarity? I well, I there was concern,
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  Speaker 6: I remember, because there was an agent involved with this
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  Speaker 6: who had brought that to the publisher. The publisher didn't
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  Speaker 6: want it, but then later the author saw virtually what
• 13:52
  Speaker 6: she thought was virtually the same story. I remember us
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  Speaker 6: talking about this without reading it. I guess it's hard
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  Speaker 6: to know, because you're right, tropes are one thing, and
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  Speaker 6: any genre is going to be similar to that. But
• 14:10
  Speaker 6: if the names are close, if the characters are all close,
• 14:14
  Speaker 6: if it follows basically the exact same plot points, then
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  Speaker 6: I think you might start wondering if it wasn't actually cough.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, the judge read this like the judge would have
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: seen it, just.
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  Speaker 6: Like I feel like, yeah, yes, exactly.
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  Speaker 4: If someone had a fine change remove on names and places,
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  Speaker 4: but everything else is generally the same, then yes, you
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  Speaker 4: could say they stole your idea.
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: But well, of course you can't really sue somebody over
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  Speaker 5: an idea, because, like you were saying, ideas are out there. Yeah,
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  Speaker 5: the claim was plagiarism, which is usually the duplication of
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: someone else's words, like a string of words the same.
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  Speaker 5: And it doesn't sound like there was any of that now.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, just like you know, there are a lot of
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: lawsuits in the music industry about this, and you judges
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  Speaker 4: have to come up with a similar thing. It's like, okay,
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  Speaker 4: there are only some chords that can be played on
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: a guitar, and so are you actually stealing an idea
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: or two people just having the same idea separately?
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: Yam, like forty percent of all country songs are CF ANDNG.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yeah, those chords.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, all right, let's move on to Kraft Corner.
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: We got a very special win this time because our
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: own Laura Burnhart is going to talk to you about
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: effectively using imagery in your work. So take it away, Lara.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Craft Corner.
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  Speaker 6: Let's talk today about using imagery. Imagery is something we
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: tend to associate more with literary fiction or upmarket fiction,
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: but excellent prose utilizes it to create a powerful reading
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: experience too. Have you ever started a book, and you
• 15:54
  Speaker 6: just couldn't keep reading because it was flat, didn't stir you.
• 15:58
  Speaker 6: Maybe it was boring. The author probably didn't use imagery
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: or didn't use it well. On the other hand, is
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: there anything better than a book that grabs you by
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: the fields, yanks you into the pages, and leaves you
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: feeling like you just experienced something incredible. Let's talk about
• 16:17
  Speaker 6: some ways to bring that experience to our own work.
• 16:24
  Speaker 6: Judicious use of imagery will make your writing more interesting
• 16:28
  Speaker 6: and draw people in because it evokes the five senses.
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: That touches on emotional connections helps readers viscerally connect with
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: our characters. Once they care about the character and their plight,
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: they want to see them win. Just like incorporating a
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: theme that readers can connect with, evoking the senses adds
• 16:48
  Speaker 6: emotional depth to your story. If you can trigger the senses,
• 16:56
  Speaker 6: your reader will experience a more complex and rewarding read
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  Speaker 6: I think visual imagery is fairly commonplace and utilized, but
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: don't forget to explore imagery connected with your other senses
• 17:09
  Speaker 6: as well, taste, smell. These types of connections can trigger
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: nostalgia of a time gone by, pleasure of a day
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: at a carnival, even grief. Grandma's rolls or pie or
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: cookies that no one can recreate now that she's gone,
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: will evoke a real connection in your readers. The smell
• 17:29
  Speaker 6: of vanilla can trigger feelings of warmth and acceptance in
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: mom's kitchen. Cloying smoke causes a physical reaction of irritation,
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: or memories of a dive, bar, pool hall, etc. Do
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: remember that we don't want to cram our manuscripts full
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: of these on every page. The important thing is to
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: remember to use it intentionally, and that is where rhetoric
• 17:56
  Speaker 6: comes in. Rhetoric is the intentional use of the literary
• 18:00
  Speaker 6: devices and our choice of words. Figurative language like simile, metaphor, hyperbole, alliteration,
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: and personification can all help you. If you're working with
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: the passage and you're editing and you feel like it's
• 18:18
  Speaker 6: falling flat, try to consider some ways of bringing imagery
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: into your work and see if you can't elevate it.
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: Thank you, Laura. Now let's talk to Erica Wright. Erica Wright,
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  Speaker 5: welcome to the podcast.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: It's great to have you here. Okay, traditional first question,
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: if you could offer writers one piece of advice, what
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: would it be?
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: You know, I always tell writers that to celebrate the
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: small successes along the way. That could include anything for
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: finishing a difficult chapter, to you getting some positive feedback,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: to publishing a short.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Story, because I feel like we get so focused.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: On what's the next run of the ladder, what I
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: want to do next, and we don't actually pause to
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: appreciate what we should one way, so you know, keep
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: some cake, keep some cupcakes around, and I would.
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: Eat them without an excuse.
• 19:24
  Speaker 6: Okay, that's true.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Well maybe that's that's true too, But you know that's
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: I know, just you know, celebrate this all small successes.
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: I love the way it keeps us a fat. Yeah,
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: that's terrific.
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: Tell I know you've done other things. Tell us how
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: you got started writing?
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Oh sure, you know. My background's actually in poetry. I
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: really fell in love poetry at.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: A very young age and pursued my degree in poetry,
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: and you know, wrote my first book of a collection.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: And while I was doing that, it was visiting Murder Inc.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: In New York City, a lot which was unfortunately is
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: out of business, but was a crime I'm only bookshop,
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: and was reading all these mysteries. So when I finished
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: my first poetry collection, I thought I would try my
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: hand at writing my own.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: That book lives in a drawer. That's my drawer monster novel.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: But it definitely got the book, and I thought, well,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm going to try again. That's that's what
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: led me to this.
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: We've all got a book in a drawer.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone's just as part of the process.
• 20:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: No, I know. Well you just said you've written. I
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: know you've published both poetry and fiction. So how do
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: you decide what hat you're going to put on in
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: the morning when you sit down to write.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's an excellent question. I find it very difficult
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: to switch between the two. I find that if I'm,
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: you know, trying to write poetry in the morning and
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: then fiction in the afternoon, the fiction is really.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Over brought, and you know, I can't seem to move
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: out of describing it. Does it really does. So I
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: really just try to separate them.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: So I work on project at a time, and that
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: actually is a little bit scary, just to be honest,
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: because I'm always afraid I.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Won't be able to come back. That's sort of all free.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: I've forgotten how to ride the bicycle or whatever it is,
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: and there is usually a period of time where I
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: have to kind of sweep the cob webs out mixing
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: my metaphors.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: There is let's say, I don't think of bicycle metaphors.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: I've got to change the tires or something.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: But so far I can seem to move back and
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: forth if I give myself enough time and I'm patient.
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: I mean, feel free to argue with me. But it
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: seems like poetry is about trying to say more with less,
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: whereas pros you've got a lot more leeway and you can,
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: you know, ride along as long as well, up to
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: a limit reader's limit, but you know you've got more
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: leeway there. So I would think it would be tough
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: to go from.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: One to the other.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: It is. It is challenging.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: And you know what I like about when I'm writing
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: pros and I'm in a prose mode is that I
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: sit down and it really feels like work.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: And I mean that in a positive way.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: That I sit down and I know that I want
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: to either write for a certain amount of time or
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: I'm aiming to finish a chapter, and it feels so
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: productive And then when I sit down to write a boom.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: There are days when you know, I get a few
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: words and maybe.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: The next day I throw them into the trash can.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: So so I don't I hate to say that I enjoy.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Writing fiction more, but there is a more than I do.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Have more cupcakes along the way.
• 22:26
  Speaker 6: I'm more to celebrate. And I think that when we
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: write poetry, because there is such a need to be
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: disciplined and adhere to certain style guides and rules, that
• 22:40
  Speaker 6: it can be actually helpful. It can it can benefit
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: the fiction if we learn to keep it sparse and
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: say what we need as simply and as beautifully as possible.
• 22:53
  Speaker 6: I think that's great.
• 22:55
  Speaker 7: I like, I like that perspective. Yeah, absolutely. And you
• 22:58
  Speaker 7: know fiction has rules too. It'special mystery novels that readers have.
• 23:02
  Speaker 7: You know, you're speaking of reader kind of expectations. They
• 23:05
  Speaker 7: have so many expectations for.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: A mystery, and so I think that both have these
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: kind of boundaries and you have to figure out how
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: to be creative and say what you want to say
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: within these different boundaries. And to me, I like it.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: I like having some parameters in some rules. It helps
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: me be feel more creative.
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's that balance between left brain and right brain.
• 23:27
  Speaker 6: It is.
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, Well, let's talk about mysteries. Your previous book,
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: I think was Hollow Bones, which got some terrific reviews,
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: and now you're back with the Museum of Unusual Occurrence,
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: which seems to be a mystery again, although there are
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: some well psychic and otherwise untraditional elements in this book.
• 23:53
  Speaker 6: Tell us about alive it.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Oh good, good, Yeah, absolutely so. This novel was inspired
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: by this setting. The setting was inspired by a real place.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: Some of your listeners or you might be familiar with Casadaga, Florida.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: It's known as the psychic capital of the world, and
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: it's in the real place, not my fictionalized version, but
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: in the real place. You have to be a certified
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: medium to live there, so you have to have completed
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: this coursework, you have to have your diploma framed or
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: not in order to live within the city limits. And
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: when I was living in Florida for a little while,
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: people would talk about this town something of kind of
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: a very tiny tourist destination, and it just seemed like
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: it would be really rich for setting a mystery there.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: And my main character is a complete skeptic. She doesn't
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: believe in any of anything supernatural, and she has inherited
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: a museum of oddities. Her kind of dream is to
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: turn it into kind of a more respectable institution, so
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: something like the Meador Museum in Philadelphia, so keep the
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: kind of quirkiness, but make it more of a dignified institution.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: She wakes up one morning and there is a dead
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: body in one of her display cases, and that sort
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: of derails her plans. And it also means she has
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: to be a little more willing to reach out to
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: her neighbors and kind of accept the quirkiness of this
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: town in order to solve this crime that seems to
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: involve her in some important way.
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: Sounds terrific.
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: Darn murder getting in the way, darn hat when that happens. Yeah, well,
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: tell us you've talked a little bit about when you
• 25:28
  Speaker 6: are shifting between writing poetry and writing fiction, But how
• 25:34
  Speaker 6: would you describe your writing process, like daily? What do
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: you do? Well?
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: I have a five year old, so I think that's
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: actually made me more discipline, because I'm very good about
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: if it's time to write, I write when because I
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: have to. It's in order to actually make this work,
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: to keep the wheels running so soon you see leaves
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: for his wonderful preschool, which would love. I'm at my
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: desk with a cup of tea and I really try
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: to write for the first hour every morning. I write
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: my first dress by hand, which I think is maybe
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: a little bit of poetry.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Oh you wonderful for me.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: It just it doesn't look real because it's not a
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: computer screen.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: It's messy. I'm not embarrassed by it.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: I just kind of write what I want to write,
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: and then I worry later about again reader expectations or
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: you know, polishing and all of that.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: So that's sort of what my process is.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: And then once it finally gets to the computer screen,
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: you know, then I feel like that inner critic kicks
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: in a little bit more and I have to figure
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: out how to turn.
• 26:34
  Speaker 6: It off time to time to start whipping it into
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: shape just right. So are you Are you a panther
• 26:41
  Speaker 6: or a planner? Do you like to outline? Do you
• 26:43
  Speaker 6: just like to sit down and write? How do you
• 26:46
  Speaker 6: How do you handle that?
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: I'm definitely a answer. I would like to be a plotter.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: I always think that feels like the smarter way to
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: approach project. But for me, I just want to really
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: floor with the first draft. I don't necessarily want to
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: write a crime novel. I don't really know who the
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: killer is until somewhere around the halfway mark, and that
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: usually means the first half has to be totally reimagined
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: and rewritten.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: And it's not a very efficient process.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: If you know, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but it
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: does keep me interested. And so when I'm at eight am,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: when I'm at my desk, I've got my tea, I'm curious.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: I want to know what happens, and I want to
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: keep moving forwards. So it's not the best process, but
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: it's mine.
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: The important thing is that it keeps you moving. I
• 27:34
  Speaker 6: find that a different process works for every single author,
• 27:39
  Speaker 6: and that's the beauty of it that as long as
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: it works for you, it is the right process, and
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: it does work. So that's great.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: So you write, you said at eight o'clock, your little
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: one goes to daycare. You write, and then what does
• 27:53
  Speaker 6: that writing day look like for you? Do you try
• 27:55
  Speaker 6: to maintain that for a certain amount of time? Is
• 27:57
  Speaker 6: there marketing involved? Do you just maximize the writing?
• 28:01
  Speaker 8: Yeah?
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Great question. So I also teach full time, so.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: My kind of power in the morning is very important
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: because that is my only dedicated time when I'm on
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: a deadline, which I am right now. I'm also sneaking
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: in a little bit of writing at night on the
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: weekends if I, you know, have some extra time.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: But at nine, I shift.
• 28:19
  Speaker 6: At nine, I.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Shift over into I put on a different hat, and
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: I shift right over into teaching.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Mode, fitting in the marketing.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: So that actually is really a challenge because I don't
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: have it kind of on my calendar, so that is
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: really what I'm kind of script to kind of make
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: that twenty fifth hour out of a twenty four hour day.
• 28:36
  Speaker 6: Yes, oh, it's totally relatable. I'm just curious. What grade
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: do you teach?
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: I teach college. I teach mainly composition courses.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Although I teach I'm actually developing a short story writing
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: course right now, which has been really fun.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I should say it's already been developed. I'm redeveloping it
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: to make it more contemporary.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: Some of the readings have fallen out of that fifty
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: year rain, so I'm sort of updating it.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: And that's really life. It is actually exciting.
• 29:05
  Speaker 6: I teach. I teach it as an adjunct, I teach
• 29:08
  Speaker 6: a college course as well, So it's great. I mean,
• 29:10
  Speaker 6: I love working with were Kindred spirits here. Yeah, yeah,
• 29:14
  Speaker 6: for sure. So what are some of the lessons that
• 29:20
  Speaker 6: you've learned along the way that you could share with
• 29:22
  Speaker 6: our listeners about maybe about writing or the or the
• 29:25
  Speaker 6: writing life, or even just juggling writing life with real life,
• 29:30
  Speaker 6: like something that would be very helpful.
• 29:33
  Speaker 9: You know, I always say that writing doesn't look like
• 29:35
  Speaker 9: it does in the movies, at least not for me, right.
• 29:42
  Speaker 9: You know, I've read stories about people writing full books
• 29:45
  Speaker 9: on their commutes, either.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: Dictating or if they have a subway or boss, they're
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: sort of writing a notebook.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: I've definitely written just kind of sitting in the middle
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: of a floor. I've written at the LaGuardia terminal. So
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: I think that sometimes.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: You kind of it's going to vision in your head
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: of what kind of writing looks like, and it really
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: is just about getting the words onto the page. And
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: as you as you said, it doesn't matter what that
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: looks like. It's your process. And I think part of
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: that is the sort of this problem that I think
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: we all have of comparing yourself to others that you want,
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: you know, you want somebody else has, and that's just
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: You're You're on your own journey, you know, keep your
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: eyes on your on your own page, and you're going
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: to be happier and also probably more productive if you
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: are just focusing on on you and your journey.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: You're writing journey.
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: Erica, The Museum of Unusual Occurrence will be on the
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: stands when this podcast comes out, so everyone should run
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: out and follow the links in the show notes to
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: find that what's next from you?
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Well, what's next? Well, this is a series.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: I didn't start it as I didn't start the book
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: expecting it to be a series, but that too.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: I love the setting so much, I love the characters
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: so much.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: It really does feel like a privilege to get to
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: continue with them and see see where their lives are headed.
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: Seems like that's a title.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Yet maybe you all can help me, maybe.
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: Sure, just get no, we won't do that now, it'll
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: come to you, And if it doesn't come to you,
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: it'll come to your publisher. So at some point I
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: stopped worrying about titles very much because they never used
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: mine anyway. So, Erica, this has been a treat. Thank
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: you so much. For being on the podcast.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 31:28
  Speaker 8: Okay, bye now.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Man, good parting words.
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: Just a few parting words. The next event on the
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: Writer Kind Agenda is, of course, the Small Group Retreat,
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: which takes place at Cane Break Resort not far from Tulsa, Oklahoma,
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: January fifteenth, nineteen. And we still have spaces available. This
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: is a little well, it's a lot different from the
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: annual conference, and that we do limit the number of
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: people who can come. There's only so much space at
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: this resort anyway, and we want to be able to
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: read people's work and give you direct feedback on what
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: you're doing. You know, every day we'll go back and
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: forth reading, editing, suggesting, revising, and by the end of
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: the retreat people say they feel like they're writing at
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: a whole much better level.
• 32:33
  Speaker 6: I think. Plus, I've seen it happen.
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, Plus it's a lot of fun, don't you think.
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, I'm halred. He's so ready for it.
• 32:43
  Speaker 6: This one's so relaxing out by the lake. They've got
• 32:47
  Speaker 6: a steam room, a dry sauna. I go for walks
• 32:51
  Speaker 6: every morning and see rabbits and deer. It's just you're
• 32:56
  Speaker 6: so far away from everything, it's very easy to focus
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: on your writing.
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: Which is the whole point. And of course, our annual
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: conference is Labor Day weekend. This year, that's September fourth
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: through seven in Oklahoma City at the Scurvan Hotel. For
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: more information about either of these programs and more, visit
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: our website writercon dot com. All right, until next time,
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: keep writing, and remember you cannot fail if you refuse
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: to quit. See you next time.