Latest / THE DAILY BRIEF / West is divided 'as it has never been before', former Russian diplomat says

Transcript

West is divided 'as it has never been before', former Russian diplomat says · THE DAILY BRIEF

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to that Ukrainian diplomacy which is baffling everybody,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: so hopefully to shed a bit more light on that.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: We're joined now by Boris Bondaev, a former Russian diplomat
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: who resigned from his position in opposition to Moscow's war
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: against Ukraine. Mister Bondaev, thank you very much for joining us.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: What do you make of what Ukraine and Europe said
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: in sort of in response to the American, Russian and
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: planner and what's what's going to be the Krimin's response
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to that?
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Do you think, well, it doesn't look very much serious
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: to me. It's a desperate attempt not to be sidelined
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: by Americans, which I think European Union is very much
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: afraid of being sidelined, to being kicked out of this process.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: It's understandable, but I think it's natural because the European
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Union has always had a very very limited role in
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: all these things. So I think Moscow is quite satisfied
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: watching this from distance, waiting for something to be presented
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: to it. So most school would make the final choice
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: what to agree on what not, So it makes it
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: puts put in again and again in the position of strength,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: and what is more curious and interesting that he doesn't
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: do anything for that it's doing from your.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Such interrupt just to get your take on what's been
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: sort of it's been characterized as actually basically Russian rushing
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: a wish list kind of imposed dictated through the Americans.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Is that your sense of what the original claims and
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: pace plan was And do you think there's a possibility
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: the Europeans can can turn that round with the Ukrainians
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: into something that both sides can try and find common groundover.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Well, the question is really not what Europeans would like
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: to propose instead of American proposal and all the question
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: should be what leverage Europeans do have so they can
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: use to insist on their demands and to make Putin listen.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: For now, I don't see any leverage that United that
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: European Union, well in Europe, including the United Kingdom, could
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: use against Putin's demand. Puttings so called maximalist goals, which
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: he doesn't surrender, he keeps and he keeps advancing on
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: the battlefield, so to speak. So it's all blah blah blah.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: So you you think and obviously you resigned from the
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Foreign Service in opposition to the to the invasion. But
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: is it your sense that within the body you left
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: the Russian Foreign Service adding the cred and that basically
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: quite satisfaction just the direction of travel.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Well, actually there should be some satisfaction because they see
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: that the Western camp is divided, is very seriously divided
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: as it's never been before, seriously so. And what is
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: the best thing for them for Moscow is that they
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: don't have to do anything. They just sit and wait
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: for that.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: What do you think that says about the way the
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: West and the way Europe and America have conducted themselves
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: over the last three and a half years.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Very unprofessional and it makes Russian diplomacy look very professional.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: And it's a foreign service with a long standing record
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: of pretty effective diplomacy. It's effectively running rings, you would say,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: around the West at the moment. It is a way
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: out of that, though, how does the West kind of
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: turn the tables? Well, how does Europe turn the tables?
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Even with the limited leverage they have to try and
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: regain some kind of initiative in this process.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: The problem with leverage is not that you think you
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: don't have enough leverage. It's a problem with the mindset.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: First of all, when people keep talking about unwinnable war,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: that Russia is in nuclear power, it cannot be defeated,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: and blah blah blah, it's rubbish because it means that
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: the next time Russia invades United Kingdom or Poland or whatever,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: you must surrender it once because you cannot fight Russia.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: It's a totally false mindset, that's it. First of all,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Europe must stop this self defeatist thinking and must start
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: thinking how this war should be won, not stopped, not
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: just pushed aside, not frozen for a different time. One.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: The wars are either one or lost, so it's up
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: to you what you prefer.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Bores Bodara, thank you very much for your time and
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: your insights into what is as I say, confe's in
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: situation diplomatically, but great to get your insights.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Assass