Latest / ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence / Prof. Manish Jain on How to Enhance Learning Through Creativity (#013)

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Prof. Manish Jain on How to Enhance Learning Through Creativity (#013) · ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Try this experiment shot, right?
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Try eating kichini for three days in a row nonstop without anything in the middle.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: And please don't put rasam on the top and on the side or sambar, like you know, or uh kochongari or whatever it is that you eat.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Just just plain and not Pongal, by the way.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Pongal is one of the most interesting things invented by mankind, in my opinion.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but this is just boiled rice and boil turdal and boil uh rice and no salt.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now imagine you eat that for three days without any uh filter coffee in the middle.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Fourth day at the site of Kichiri, you will puke.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Guaranteed.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Not eaten, site.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: That is exactly what you're doing in our schools, or we are doing in our school.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another edition of ContraMind.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, I'm in conversation with Cross Money J.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Costa Money Change is an associated process I also.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Over the course of this time, yeah, CCL, Professor Manese has touched the life of over 6,000 teachers, 50,000 students across India through CCL's workshops and learning initiatives.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Over to my conversation with Professor Maniz Jay.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So before uh I really get into the topic and I I get deep into what you're uh teaching philosophy and the methodologies and the way you approach teaching math, and uh, I was absolutely stunned and uh you know amazed at the way you explained the basic concepts.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that really uh got me excited.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Before I get into all of that, let me ask you a question.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: In your early days, which is really when you were a child and when you went to school, uh right now you are teaching math the way it has to be more joyful, more fun.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, how was it for you as a student?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's uh you know long time back, but yeah, no, um uh I I was uh I was actually a regular student, uh even though I I mean I had an elder brother and um you know, but we didn't live together.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he was living with my grandparents and I lived with my parents.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember me myself uh as a regular student who uh I did particularly, I would say, I mean, if you were talking about mathematics specifically, I think I enjoyed the subject.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: I uh you know enjoyed working on the problems um you know that that that happened uh you know in the school and so on and so forth.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Not to say that there was anything special that the um you know school or the teachers were trying to do, but it was just I I I think I lied.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I now that you asked the question, I distinctly remember um uh you know that um I remember in I think in class 12, I mean, which is when when we were also preparing for the uh this IIT exam, uh I remember the CBSC board, uh, you know, one of the questions was very interesting and it was very unusual because they would not ask such questions.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I and when I looked at that, I I I really felt good uh you know solving that.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there was this sense of joy that I I felt um while solving.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I would add at the same time, the the motivation behind solving a lot of those things were not necessarily the joy of the math itself, but it was more of what I can get uh or or or you know how that would help in my um pursuit, if I can say use that word.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: A pursuit at that time was to sort of follow my brother's footsteps into uh this uh this supposedly the best imagination college in India, which was IT Cantur.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um that was pretty much uh uh you know uh uh I think it was my my interest there was not uh for the love for the this or that, although it is interesting, um, but it was more to sort of make sure that you know I I I don't want to be called uh you know a loser in some sense having you know a brother, uh elder brother who sort of made it and this guy uh didn't and and and was uh you know.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I at least wanted to get out of this the house and at least get some admission in some college.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: The private colleges didn't exist that time, and maybe even if they did, they were pretty expensive.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I had to so I think I would say the the uh that is what it was.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think I liked it, but I did not have the experience the the experience of of that joyfulness of uh I wasn't exposed to that.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh let me and I and that end in fact is is the is is the most shocking thing.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and which is what I sometimes have said when I get the opportunity.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was only at the age of 38 I realized that this is such an interesting subject.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I after that I did engineering and this or whatever.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and even there I I used to often wonder.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I did electrical engineering uh from ID Khanpur, but um I I I don't think I could enjoy the subject.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: I did it because that is what the top rankers did, and that is what they did to get a job and then they work, and you know, all of that.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the work was interesting too.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: I did chip design, all of that.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't uh, you know, it wasn't the joy uh while studying, it wasn't the joy of learning signal.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, very interesting courses.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, electrical engineering is of course a beautiful subject, right?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: But we never uh, you know, like for instance, we did this uh course called um signals and systems, I remember, and uh, you know, uh when we are sending these bits, like you and I are talking, right?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: We are sending this uh information, and my voice is getting converted into signals and A to D, D to A, all of that, and it reaches you, and then you will send it through podcasts, wherever.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there is signal, there is information that is coming from me to you, and this guy who was like the father of um uh you know uh this, I forget his name, one of the most uh polymath.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um his name beats me.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean he's he's considered the father of information theory.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Claude Shannon.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um uh Claude Shannon, and he's just an amazing guy.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so Claude Shannon is this guy, and and and and I remember we did this course on signals and systems where we uh thought about everything that had to be done, right?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, how much is the information that can be sent through a signal this that we never talked or you know talked about Claude Shannon as a person, right?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: The kind of person that he was, the maze that he designed, the first guy to have ever designed a machine that can play a chess and win against uh uh, you know, I mean amazing things this guy did.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, he also did was a unicyclist, I think.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and things like that.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now, those are the things that can inspire people when they are, you know, 19-year-olds or 20-year-olds.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Look, here is this guy who did information theory and all of that.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, this is his life, this is who he was as a person, this is what he did, uh, um, you know, and information theory and things like that.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that I think the context, uh, which in my opinion is extremely important to humanize education in some sense, to bring context, to bring history is something that I think um our teachers felt is probably uh eating into our time that uh, you know, that I'll have to teach them this formula, and and of course, of course, if I talk about Claude Shannon, that it takes away 15 minutes, and so maybe I shouldn't do that.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that is, in my opinion, a mistake uh uh that we made.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that has led to a lot of people um not pursuing things that they they can and should uh pursue because they don't know the joy side of it.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, most of the work that we do in our life, like I was talking to somebody, is 80% uh is will always be no matter what you do, no matter something you do podcasts.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the interesting part will be talking to different people, but then the 80% of the time will be other junk that you have to do for the podcast to go online, things like that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So in any profession, 80% is junk, but that 20% of things that brings the joy uh is something that we we should not and cannot miss.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that is, I think, that context, that history, um uh that hand you know, uh hands-on-ness of of things that we do was sort of missing.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and I uh uh when I realized that, I think that is when, but it was, you know, it was late, it was 38.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know and I vividly remember that story, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think I was 38 or something, um, or something like that.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: 38.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I realized around that time that I don't want to work for for a corporation for for the love of, you know, I I mean it was great.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing chip design, I was uh, you know, director of RD in Bangalore um for a large chip design software corporation.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um great place to work, all of that.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh but there was this this thing of doing something more meaningful, uh something more uh that that brings me in touch with uh you know uh people around us and things like that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: More meaningful, I would say.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a quest.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember uh I said that I, you know, around 38 I will not work um uh for money if I can use that word, although of course I'm still getting paid.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh your tax dollars uh come to my idea and I get my salary.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, our lab is sustainable.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, people who work here um we we raise our own funds to run the lab.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but what I was saying was that 1930, I mean when I was 39, when I was 38, I I read this story about this is the most fascinating story.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Mathematics, right?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: All we have ever thought of, and and and I'll add to that story in a minute.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's another story that is part of it.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have heard that you know this this something called pi, and then pi is um always in uh you know uh circles, right?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Anything to do with pi is a circle, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh circle, you take a cylinder, there is pi, you take a sphere, there is pi, you take a cone, there is pi, you take a regular circle, everything is so uh you know there's this notion that we say, oh pi, pi means that you know circumference to diameter.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that ratio is pi and gray.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's nothing more to it.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: That is it, and that no history of how we did pi, no history of the five decimal space.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, uh was only required 3.14159, which was um uh what was done by uh you know Indian um uh Kerala School of Science, Madhava, I think.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he he and that was that was the value that was used for so many years because we didn't need any more precision than that, right?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um in fact, people say that I don't know, I forget like 15 decimals 15 decimal places of precision are enough to uh to reach us to the last point in our uh you know uh universe, right?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Jitamagura universe have the all we can do with this just 15 places of decimal of pi, something like 15 to 20.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yet today we have like billions.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the record is about 10 billion uh uh decimal places on pi.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so pi was all of that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was shocked when I read that if you have, like for instance, uh draw lots of parallel lines on the floor, start dropping sticks of equal length randomly on the floor, some of them will touch the line, some will not.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: That ratio will be pi.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, is it?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was completely shocked.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: These are straight lines.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And imagine the same thing than we did later on when we were doing in 3037 episode on pi.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: We realized the same thing, right?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: You have neem trees falling down on this brick road, right?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Brick has these brick is like largely, you know, uh straight lines, right?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so lots of parallel straight lines.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: You count the number of leaves that fall within the bricks and that touch the junction of two bricks.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: That ratio is pi, of course, based on the same problem.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: That is shocking.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, dude, this is.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so now before I look at the proof as to why it is, the for the fact is that pi doesn't exist only in circles.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: There is this supposedly straight line, and that's where pi is sitting.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is important because it shows this, this, this, this gets this sense of wonder, right?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: We have not left anything for our children to wonder about, right?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this example of Einstein saying the reason he discovered relativity was because he used to wonder how will the world look like if he rode a beam of light.
• 12:33
  unknown: Right?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you switch, I'm not kidding, this is what he said in his Walter Isaacson's book.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine you switch on a torchlight and immediately the torchlight comes, and imagine you sit on that torchlight and you go wherever the light goes.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: What will the world look like?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it looked like, but he says he used to constantly wonder about it, and that is when he said, you know, nothing can be greater than speed of light, this, that, whatever, and story of relativity came in.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now it is that is what I'm saying is important.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we will have to make sure the education is such that this sense of wonder, this these questions which you know have either they either they have answer or they don't, I don't know.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: But something, and we don't have to give them the answer, we don't have to tell them.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that that curriculum, that thing has to be spiced with such stuff.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying you don't teach formulas, I'm not saying you don't do algorithms.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: We should definitely do that.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: We should definitely mug up our um the tables and this and that.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: All of that is good, important.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: But that spice, but that joy, but that wonder, if you take it out, you do not, we do not eat such taste.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, in South India, I I wish um I don't know, you live in Bombay, but I'm assuming you are you are uh from the southern part of India.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: I felt that such beautiful, I think we are digressing, but such beautiful cuisine.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I wish um sometimes I wish um you know, people in uh Tamil Nad, the um the number of uh uh you know, some recipes that we have in uh Tamil Nad.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: I wish we had spent that kind of time or interest uh doing something over, I mean, uh, you know, whatever it is, right?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: But just beautiful cuisine, and that's a different topic altogether.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I I I I I thought that this this is the kind, and later, just just like three weeks back, or maybe about a month or a month and a half back, we were doing this episode, second episode on Pi.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I realized something even more interesting.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then I and when I do these things, when I find these things, that is what I get joyful, joyous about, and I feel sad.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like you were asking, right?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't exist.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the most interesting, most interesting stories about mathematics or science or whatever are not part of the curriculum.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not blaming anybody, I'm not saying, and I don't even want to get there why you know they are not, they are or they are not.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel sad that they are not, and that is why I thought, you know, let us just do that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: We will we will try to compile these stories, we will try to tell these stories, and we will try to make uh stuff more joyous and uh and and and make you fall in love, like I say, love marriage ojay.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, pi, like they were saying, right?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Pi is of course ratio of circle to um uh you know diameter, but that is only when the circle is static.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine you if you take a circle and start spinning, just like a bicycle moves, you know, the the wheel of the bicycle spins and also moves, right?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, trace the point of that nozzle where you feel the air, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's called the ball, right?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: The path that it takes is like a semicircle, right?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Almost a semicircle, it's not a semicircle, of course, it's called a cycloid.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: The most amazing thing is it looks like a semicircle, it is still spinning, everything is sort of circular.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if if the circle is stable, the circumference is two pi, assuming the radius is one.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: This guy, when it the circle is spinning and also moving on a straight line, that length is eight.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Eight, is it?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Eight.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, the pi has gone, meaning the pi has been vanished.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: There is no pi.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how do I justify?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: How do I say where did the pi go?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just because the circle starts to spin and move, the pi has disappeared.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Before the circle was not moving, there was pi, it was two pi.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So from 6.28, which is roughly 2π, it has gone to 8.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: But pi guya, something was totally irrational, has become a rational number.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is a story we need to tell when we talk about rational or irrational numbers.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Whether we get the answer or not, an answer I think um we when we do first year of engineering, we will do integration, this, that, whatever, we'll find out.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: But but that question that makes you wonder is gone.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: No wonder we are not getting um you know Fields Medal in India, whatever.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we are not leaving our children with these questions, with these interesting stories, with these interesting things that can inspire and give you that sense of wonder.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, very long answer to your uh very short question.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's a fantastic uh point.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I can't agree with you more on this, which brings me to the next question.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: What will it take for us to teach mathematics the way you're talking at the school level, right?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because there is an interesting story that uh I read about your interaction with uh Arvind Gupta, and that's really where for you it was a it was a moment that you decided that this is something that you want to do.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And now you've dedicated your whole life doing this.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: What does it take for us to get this to schools?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's really where primary mathematics need to be taught if you really need to build primary science as an interest, as you know, if you really want to become a world power tomorrow, you know, the kind of uh you know leaders in uh science and mathematics if you need, it needs to be taught at the school level, right?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, how what what what needs to be done to transform this?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: You do it at the college level.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you you know, I read about the interesting foundation course at IIT Gandhi Naga that happens, but clearly, what does it take to do what you're talking about?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because that joy and that understanding of the concept has to happen at that level for us to get some great mathematicians and great science minds.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: How do we do that?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I think they're already there.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that the you know, all the minds and all the science and all of them are there.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that we are not PQing them, we are not catching them, or we are not uh, you know, inspiring them or motivating them, whatever you want to say.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I would actually say um that you know, I think we'll have to sort of maybe leave the purpose a little bit because then it gets very loaded.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we have to do this because we need to uh become world power and super and this and the no, I would say, and I and and like you said, while we are working with um uh while while we are working with uh you know students at IIT, foundation programs.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, we've done foundation programs at uh eight different IITs.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Every single IIT is saying that why don't you come and set up a lab like this in you know in IIT Kanpur, um where where I am from, IIT Delhi, Palakkar, Pillai, Jammu, and I forget uh Kapmandi and uh Jammu.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I haven't been to Madras and uh uh or or uh Karapur, but other than that, um so uh you know, while we do our most of our work is actually with teachers, right?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think when you're asking this question of um, you know, how do we get to schools, I think, I think our our the answer in my mind, or in my opinion, I think it is the teachers we will have to sort of work on.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that is what at least I feel we will have to spend our energies on, because these are, I mean, we can directly reach uh the students or teachers or whatever.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can, which is what the effort is, right?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: This 30-30 program, which is online, um, which is an essence, uh, is is to become more democratic.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's right there on your internet.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: You watch this episode, come fall in love, you like a few things and you follow, and this is that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: But but in a in a very institutional, in a very systemic way, if you want to look at uh this problem, we will have to somehow look at our teachers and uh we will have to hand hold them.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you when we talk about, I mean, it's amazing, right?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: When we talk about teachers' training, you talk to any teacher in India and ask them, you know, um, here is this uh teacher training, why don't you go?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And every single guarantee you will say no, many characters.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: We have done infinite number of teacher training, and all that happens.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: There is people come and present, you know, PowerPoints, and and and that's that's that's it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and and somewhere I think, somewhere, somewhere I think we'll have to see that we will have to hand.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very easy for us to say, oh, that teachers have to become creative, you know.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: From you know, we can all announce we can tomorrow uh put out a big thing in paper and say, every teacher shall be creative from tomorrow.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Every teacher will be creative from tomorrow, right?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like I say, Achaein San Bany.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sort of supposedly from Banya community.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: You have left us, you have left the teachers in vacuum.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: How do you expect teachers to be creative from tomorrow?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: We will have to hand hold our teachers, we will have to work.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: So while we do a lot of these, um and and you go look at, I mean, I this is sort of a challenge.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Go look at uh lots of these uh, you know, uh any whether it's a board, whether it's uh uh education, whether it's a private school or every stuff website will be uh uh you know formalities or things that we need to do.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, for this, fill this form, then you will get admission to this food.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: For this, this is the fee structure, you know, blah blah.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Private school, government school, this that.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: But the most important thing in the school is the content, is what is it that we do?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting resources, stuff that that really educates.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: There is there is nothing, almost nothing about uh content or uh or or real stuff that we're going to talk about in the schools or or or so resources are missing, content is missing.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think what we have to do, I think what we have to do is to really, really um uh you know uh work with that itself.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think we are serving kitchen to our uh uh uh students, and that took 19,200 hours of kitchen, eight hours.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: A day 200 days in a year, 12 years in a row.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can do the math, it is 19,200 hours, and I'm not adding this coaching kichari and akaj kicheri and alan kicheri and this and that.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm not adding that.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just adding some kichiri that everybody has to be.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the kichri that we eat, and the the the most so try this experiment shaw, right?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Try eating kichili for three days in a row non-stop without anything in the middle.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and please don't put rasam on the top and on the side or sambar, like you know, or uh kochungari or whatever is it is that you eat.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just just plain and not Pongal, by the way.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Pongal is one of the most interesting things invented by mankind, in my opinion.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but this is just boiled rice and boiled turdal and boil uh rice and no salt.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now imagine you eat that for three days without any uh filter coffee in the middle.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Fourth day at the site of kichari, you will puke.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Guaranteed, not eaten, site.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: That is exactly what you're doing in our schools, or we are doing in our schools, right?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: We are giving them this raw kichari and expecting them to puke in the exam, and then we expect uh the Tamil Nadu board on CVSC board or Karnatak board or UT board to give them Mars, right?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that is, and then and we are happy.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: So students are happy, parents are happy, son number, but check it.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: My my daughter will be 100 Mars, great.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, somewhere now imagine if this this is what and and the best part, the best part is children are eating this kichiri for 19,200 hours.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Teachers are serving this kichiri till they die.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like 40 years, 50 years, same kichidi, same kicheri.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now imagine this kichiri.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying kichari is not important.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Kichiri, let's assume it's curriculum, kichiri is important along with this kichiri on the side.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: You add uh dhokla, jalebi, you know, uh sambar, rasam, uh whatever else that you want to add, ghee, lots of ghee, this and that.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now it becomes, you know, and it's not a lot, right?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like the side dishes that make it appetizing.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is exactly what needs to be done with the curriculum.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the people who are serving kichiri have to be at least joyous-faced.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: They are like the most, the saddest people, in my opinion, Jinki Sabki, all of them have either been divorced.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Divorced meaning, you know, I'm not talking their personal lives, but in my opinion, most of our uh education.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is the first question that we ask, by the way, in our workshops.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Our teacher workshops are 22 days.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Can you imagine?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um 22 days, we can sort of, you know, you come to our workshop, we will, you know, put you in the IT Gandhinagar hostel for 22 days.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the and and and uh all uh government deploys, largely mostly we'll do private uh workshops, uh private school workshops also.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, we've done a lot with uh uh uh government teachers, right?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: State government, uh central government.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: They will come for 22 days.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Their expectation is it's a very interesting story.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: So next time, Swami, and uh I I thought I'll tell you this story also.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so next time you are stuck in let's say uh um these days online everybody is doing online workshop seminar, but imagine you are stuck in a boring workshop, right?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And most, you know, most workshops are boring and most talks are boring because you know we're just gently giving young, not telling in my opinion, stories are the most important thing that we'll have to accurate.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there is of course an art to storytelling, and uh you you don't learn that art, you will have to experience, you have to feel, you know, once you feel passionate, stories come.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but imagine you're stuck in a boring workshop.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I will tell you the best way to survive a boring workshop, and this is what our teachers told us when they came for the 22 workshop, 22 real story, right?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: She came with a large big water bottle.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: I said, ma'am, what are you doing?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you carrying this?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to name her name, but she said, sir, sorry, I cannot tell you.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And okay, okay, okay.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: She says, Sir, this is the best way of surviving a workshop, a 10-day, a 22-day workshop, um, without making the uh you know facilitator feel bad.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so, how, how, how?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she said, Okay, you know, if I have a big water bottle, I will have to go out.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say, Sir, Pani Barna, please let me go out.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that is one good reason to go out of the workshop, and then you know, you can do your WhatsApp, talk, this, that.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, once you go out, I'm nobody's bothered um, you know, to bring you back in.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then she said, Sir, one more, right?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you drink a lot of water, you also need a bio break.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you have one more reason to go back and uh not come and say this is what our teachers have invented to survive a teacher training, right?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and in our workshop, what we will do is we said, you know, the there is Wi-Fi all across the campus, there is no attendance.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can we will give you a certificate regardless.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: We will send it to your board regardless, whether you attend or not.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Your call, please come or not come.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's a four-hour workshop, two hours in the morning, two hours in the evening.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: You will not imagine everybody has Wi-Fi, everybody has phone.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: We never ever announce please switch off your phones or don't take your call.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody takes a call, nobody does, nobody like 100 people, zero.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the four-day workshops goes on for six hours.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because we are telling stories that you know, people are saying, Look, sir, this is has been the best workshop in 31 years of service.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of testimonials.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: We have done 110 workshops, but no workshop we have sat through.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Forget about attending and remembering this, you know, and and that's why the four-hour man goes on to six hours because it's always this, oh, up ye khani khajaigi, apya bataangi.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, one of my biggest um inspir, one of my best biggest inspirationslash whatever you want to call um um is this movie called Three Idiots.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've seen this, right?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, of course I've seen it, right?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have seen it like um teen time, maybe 20, 30, 40 times.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I was telling my daughter Rajfirsi back then.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but imagine this dialogue, right?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: That is what has to be every teacher's motto.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have to do a podcast, I will do it again.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that is the question that the students have to ask, and teachers have to ask themselves, right?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I going to the class?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: What is it that I'm going to do?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: What is it that I'm going to do?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: What is it that I'm going to learn that students that are sitting on the other side?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: That is a very fundamental question that needs to be asked and answered.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Even more importantly in online education.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because the other side, like we did online in the pandemic, we did our teachers' workshop again, the same 22-day workshop, but it was all online.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: You should look at that feedback.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was the most eye-watering feedback or most feedback.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: The person he was, I think, just going to retire.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: He was 68 years old, and his feedback we have recorded, and with his permission, it is online.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's saying, Sir, I come when I got this message of attending this workshop.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: I thought uh I'm going to say no because I have a medical reason.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: He had a tragedy in the family.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, the only reason I attend to this workshop is because in those four hours I'm able to forget my grief.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: It is catharetic in that sense, right?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: It is catharetic for me.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this pandemic has been, you know, it has just, you know, low zinc karate.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then one has to then talk about the meaning of science, and maybe in some other uh talk we should talk about it.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: What is the real purpose of science?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are people who have the formula for the vaccine and they feel that they should not share it with the public.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: I feel there is no point in any education if this is what people who go to school and go to college end up thinking, right?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: It is great to make money, it is great to run corporations, but when people are dying, right?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I have something that I can share which can save lives, and I have made enough money already, and I'm still not willing for whatever be the reason.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: I am still not willing to share my formula.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that you know, I mean just it just beats me.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it just makes me sad that that is the state of affairs.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and and anyway, so coming back, I think the most important, the most one of the most interesting things I would say uh in is is has to be our teachers, right?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: We will have to make sure that they end up enjoying some of what they do.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Some of what look, I'm not saying everything, everything cannot be enjoyable.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: You will have to correct the copies and you have to give them exams and this and that, but at least some part of it can be enjoyable.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Very clear, clear example.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Rotine subjito kain side achar raktyo nayar.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it that we do not do that?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is what has to be um uh, you know, I feel absolutely there, and this is exactly what we do.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: We say we will provide you that achar, you start to integrate in your curriculum and make sure some of at least not all, at least some will become you know engaged, interested, and they will do, they will cover the curriculum whichever way they want to cover.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: We have just got them uh inspired.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: The most important role has to be my teacher, despite internet, despite whatever, and most importantly, teaching in that sense has to become also something that teachers feel proud about, right?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and mostly teachers are looking for external uh, you know.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in our society, unfortunately, in most countries, like in the most countries, like 99.9% countries, teachers have lost the respect.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they are not the highest paid individuals, they are not the you suppose the elitest of the elite, except for a few Nordic countries or whatever.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So respect, to get us to a state where you know, I I remember my times, my dad used to say the high school teacher in in that village was one of the most respected individuals.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine high school teacher, because there were very few uh learned people that time, and that guy earned that that teacher, she earned the respect, right?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I can I can vouch the when when people look at this human development index, this that whatever the state of any society you can measure by the state of the teacher in that society.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can, you know, uh teacher kai HDI they cloud.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Teacher just samaj sikshak ki judney, and the where we where a teacher is not respected, for whatever reason.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying who is to blame, teachers are themselves to blame, this is to blame that.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going there.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying the state and and and that will uh and so somewhere while teachers wait for uh external validation, how about just doing it for the love of it, right?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why don't I just enjoy uh because there are things to be enjoyed, right?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Regardless of what, you know, because uh unfortunately I have to do the job, right?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have to run my family, so I need the job, I need to, you know, this.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: So while we are doing all of this, I am married, right, to this profession as an arranged marriage or whatever marriage it is.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now that has happened, either I either I move out, which I cannot because of circumstances.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is the point in me jig jig jig jig every day going to school?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't I start enjoying it?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: That will at least bring peace to this relationship, that and and that how it cannot happen in vacuum, which is where I think this achar will help.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: This this this stuff will help you make him fall in love.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, so tell me for uh for me to understand in this 22 days, what are the three, four principles or you know, stuff that you say uh really brings the love of teaching back to them?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because typically, you know, when a teacher teaches you, one of the things that uh you know I always see is that when you keep asking them more and more fundamental questions, okay, uh, the more frustration starts to happen.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I might be an interesting student, but really uh the challenge is that I myself do not know about the uh you know the basic concepts, right?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I get frustrated, and therefore you're teaching for the average and not you're teaching for the inquisitive mind, right?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: So so therefore, what do you do in this workshop that probably you know uh uh there are examples that a parent can take, a person, and this actually, uh Professor Manish Jyan, what I find is this has implications in actually workplace also.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, absolutely.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: So so therefore, uh there is there is this inquisitive mind which keeps asking questions, and therefore the the fundamental problem is I really do not know the basic concepts.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right, so right.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: So when I don't know the basic concepts, when uh inquisitive child keeps asking the questions because somewhere what I read was uh we are ready we are prepared to reproduce or memorize something but not say something.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, in this workshop, what do you do?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And in this 22 days.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: In 22 days, what do you pick up?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: And can you give me some examples of how do you make this come alive?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that you know, if I if a if a parent or if uh uh you know if somebody who's listening to this podcast wants to say, you know what, this is something that I would like to learn.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: What are what are the uh three or four principles that you and explain it to me with some nice examples so people are able to get it?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, absolutely.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they all we do is just tell stories, and I think that has to be uh part of all of this.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, like and and remember, remind me if I I forget to answer, but you know, one of the things that we'll have to remember as teachers is that we do not have to know the answers.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: It is great for the inquisitive child to uh you know keep asking questions, and you know, we don't, I mean, we'll feel frustrated that we don't know, but we'll have to say, dude, Mujeniata, that's okay.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: My job was to put this uh kira in your mind, and it is great that you have these questions.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Try to figure out, and uh, you know, maybe I'll help you.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: But if I don't have time, I'm sorry, I won't be able to help you.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I'm very happy that I have put this kida in your mind.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: It is your job to get the answer now.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: I am you know, I'm being paid to just just put this kida in your mind.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is not my you know, for whatever.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes we get perturbed.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: We might say, or if I'm born, bad job, you know, this and that.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: We'll we don't have to get that.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have to realize our job was to just ignite, you know, put the spark in your mind, and then you know, rest is history, whatever it is, right?
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so first thing you are saying, what is it that we do?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: I so you know, all our stuff that we do is I think largely, I think we put um uh sort of things online.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: So the whole 22 days content and it is you know, it can go to 30 30 days, this, that, whatever is all online.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think their fundamental goal, fundamental goal is two, three things that we do, right?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and we wrote actually a paper on uh um, I think the paper was called um how to make future-proof learning, something like that.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Gaov came up with this very cool idea or name.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: How is it that you can make education future-proof, right?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that it doesn't matter which so uh things that you will have to worry about, right?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: How is it okay?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, tomorrow, let's say, Swami, I say, Swami, you're a teacher, you have to make your subject very engaging and in inspiring and exciting, and so that every teacher attends.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: The test of how engaging you are, Swami, is to remove the attendance clause.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: From tomorrow, let's take out, let's take out the uh, you know, admi called or rule government of India and all state government, actually, government of India cannot do because these are all state subjects.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: All states in India and union territories tomorrow will you know put out an ad saying nobody can ask for any attendance.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Children will attend the class or not, if they wish to or not wish to.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine kitne school college.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: You can you can get you now, you know the answer, right?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I no, the answer is literally zero.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, which is really, I think, the challenge.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that is the benchmark.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying, no, no, no.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying, the previous content which was there by the previous instructor, and I just regitated and put some PPT and this and that.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody is interested in PPT, right?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um you know, it requires serious effort.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: It requires and in the online method, otherwise, the guy will say, sorry, sir, internet dura, I will not put my uh you know, I will I cannot put my video on.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: So video is off, uh, mute is off, and the you know, bagger is doing whatever uh she is doing, right?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't know what she's doing, right?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: She must be uh playing or this or that or whatever it is, and it's okay.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: It is basically saying that you have to put the achar in in in whatever you are serving.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: And what is it that are you saying we can just tomorrow say content?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: But what is the benchmark?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so there are three benchmarks and three recipes that I'm gonna share.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Three benchmarks.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: How do I figure out that your stuff is good?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, three axis and three mutually different new three axis, and of course, sort of like X, Y, Z of axis, right?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Egg first axis, did I enjoy?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: That is how much the enjoyment factor of the class.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Second, whatever the curriculum that I wanted to cover or talk about, woakini.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I wanted to talk about parabola, did that happen?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: I want to talk about ellipse, did that happen, or whatever, right?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Equation linear, this, that, whatever.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Third, did it have any impact on me as a person or or on the rather the listener as a person or both?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: So imagine these are the three axes.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Did I enjoy?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Did I learn?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: And did it have an impact, right?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Three axis.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you take a film like um uh let's say you are doing a film course, right?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not math, right?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you have this film called uh Dhamal.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I don't know if you've seen, I have not seen, but people say it's a great movie.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Maja, yes, number one, okay.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Kud Sika, maybe some impact, totally not nothing, no impact, right?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now you take Tarism, okay?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Mazaya, little bit, right?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Kut Sika?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, impact, yes, okay.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: So two accesses, maybe 1.5 access.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Then you take this three EDS, right?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it scores on all three boundaries.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Mazaya, impact, right?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that is what we are talking about, and and that needs to happen.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: That it has to fall three.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Jokes, content, story, you know, all of that has to happen.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then the three things in in in in to make all of this, like I said, three benchmarks, three things.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: One, we have to make sure that this stuff is um interdisciplinary first.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Look, when people dig deep, uh, dig deep a tunnel, they will draw a lot of these side tunnels which will bring the oxygen when you're going deep.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're going deep in parabola, you will have to dig these side holes which are talking of parabola to cricket.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: I will talk about, I'll take that example of parabola and and and uh go in details.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to connect it, the boundary between math and some other thing has to induce.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: Second, you have to tell stories, and you have to do things that children and teachers or students can relate to in their life, gives them some sense of wonder.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: So chpana pustere keal pushes.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Interdisciplinary sense of wonder and uh give them something that is hands-on.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thin ingredients which can make this parabola interesting.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, for instance, parabola, right?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, how is it that we do parabola?
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, today I'm gonna talk about parabola, y is equal to x square.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: And if you uh you can see if I take the value of y x is one, y is uh uh one, if x is two, y is fourth, and like that, it goes very fast.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Its shape is like this, almost like a katori.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh here is this problem.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, find out the intersection of y is equal to x square with a straight line, you will see two points.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: Please find out that is a homework, submit it, and I will check and give you that master.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: End of parabola.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: If I do parabola, if I which we did in, I will say, have you ever thought that if you hit a ball, if what is what is something that is common between me hitting a cricket ball with my bat or Kohli hitting a uh or Dhoni doing or Swami doing, right?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say all four of us do, and we will hit the ball at different angles, right?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: You I might hit Wilkul Skya, Dhoni might hit a flat six, this, that, or whatever.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody, you know the most interesting thing, the most interesting thing about hitting a ball with a cricket bag is no matter who hits, whether you hit or high hit or dhoni hits or whoever hits, the amount of distance that the ball falls in the first second is the same regardless of who hits.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is it in the first second, the ball will always fall five meters almost?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: In the second second, it will always fall 15 meters, in the third, 25, in the fourth, uh 35, things like that.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: No matter who hits, no matter at what angle, you can hit it directly vertically up or billpull flat, that is the definition of a parabola.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now, suddenly there is a relationship between parabola and what people have actually seen in a cricket uh field or stadium, and and a very non-intuitive or very different way of looking at a parabola that the distance that it is falling in in the vertical direction is constant, regardless of uh if the jada force lagata or jada angle per lagata, to many balls jada dur jai, lambai me, but vertically and I can then talk about uh laws of why does that happen?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know it's gravity that is full in.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: If I do the same thing in on the moon, instead of five, it will fall 30 meters, but the response will be the same.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Same.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: If I do it in space, of course, the ball will never come back, and things like that.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then I can, you know, so now I can do a lot of very, very, very, very interesting things with parabola, along with uh uh, you know, how does the parabola look when it starts to start down?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: This, that, whatever.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: When we did we did this, right?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: We said, okay, parabola to banya.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Let's now make a parabola slide down.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh imagine uh imagine fish, you think just with Bachcha Fisamp.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: What if the parabola starts to slide?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Slide down.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: What will it look like?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, when it's writing down, and it's a very interesting curve that comes out, and and and and and tons of benefits.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it all depends on how am I able to engage you, right?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: What is the story that I tell?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: What is the content that I and what is the question that I leave in your mind with?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: And have I have I brought other subjects together?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sub chizo kill possible absolutely fine, absolutely great.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: Sub topics kill possible, great, but at least I mean it it requires it requires effort, and if you fall in love, I mean that effort will happen on your own, on its own.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if I were to ask a question, so I think uh what you really did now, I was able to visualize uh there was a special thinking in my mind around parabola, right?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what happened to me.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh now that now that I've I've had a spatial understanding of parabola, now the next question most children or most people ask is what's the real application in life?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so therefore, why do why do I have to read a parabola, right?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so that if I if I were asking that question, you want to make it relevant, which is one point that uh I I saw you say, which is definition and application gap.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: You talk about that a lot, right?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: I found that very interesting.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if you let's take the parabola example and then say, oh, now what you did really beautifully was give me a spatial spatial visualization of a parabola.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now there is an application gap that I am seeing.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, how do you kind of uh you know bring it uh sure you know to my life?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Locser, I mean, in this case it's actually simple, it's easier for me to do, it might be harder in other cases, and that's why I will also talk about the utilitarian view of education, which is I think one of the most important things that we should talk about.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, we also brainwash people by saying, Oh, everything has an application.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, and so in this case it's very easy, right?
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing you are asking, how is it that you do 22-day workshop and how is it that people are interested?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: The first activity we do is most of the thing that we do is very conceptual.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: We will start.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, the first, in fact, the question that we ask when teachers come, initial form, are you all Pachvipas?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sabilok Pachvipas.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Swami, are you pachvipas?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Are you fifth class past?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, please make sure you are clear because otherwise we're going to send your grades of long division to your uh boards and they will not like it.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: The point I'm trying to make is the things that we do at the level are some things that we have learned in grade five.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, we have only bugged them up.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I'm telling you this story is because this is how my story started uh when I decided to you know call Arvinji and work with him and all of that.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: That year the PISA results had come out, right?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: 2012.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we were first time India had taken that test.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, next year India you're going to take it again, and um and we were 73 out of 73 countries, right?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: In science, math, and English.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because they were not asking the definition of density.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: That we will be number one.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: They were saying what is the value of then?
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it that, like you were asking, right?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: What's the need of density in your life?
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: It turns out after the PISA results, they said 90%, 90% of our children learned nothing in all their years of 10 years of schooling that they did.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: It made no difference in their life.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's a huge number, right?
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about it, we can of course say, and and maybe some of it is true that those tests were not done in the right manner, they didn't have context, this, that, whatever.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: But even if we discount that and some of it is true, we should look at it.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: This education has to make my life a little better.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: That is why I should do education.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, why should I spend uh time?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, that is a fundamental question that we should ask as parents, as as society members, and as policymakers, and everybody, right?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that is something that is fundamental, which is what you know came to our mind when we do this.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where we start.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: We will say, look, you have 100 rupees and you have to buy iron.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you have two choices.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can buy 100 rupees a kg iron, or you can buy 100 rupees a liter iron.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Which which which shop will you go and buy?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: And invariably, most of us will go by 100 rupees a kg because iron is kg.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Despite having mugged up, despite having read in class five, then we go to class five and we show them an NCRT chapter where it is clearly said that a block of iron 10 centimeters long, 10 centimeters wide, 10 centimeters high, solid block is one liter, is 1000 cc, one liter.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: So a solid iron can also be in liters, but we have we we don't know.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: We we or anyways think it is liquid.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: Then we say, okay, this this I mean I'm just giving you an example.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: We have this swami right in front of me.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: How many liters is swami?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, swami is not in liters, swami is a solid.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: We just said that swami can be in liters because he occupies space, in fact, a lot of space.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we must be there in liters.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do we figure out how many liters is swami?
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, oh, this is interesting.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now we need to talk about Archimedes.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: And no, no, no, no, Archimedes, and then Archimedes is a different story that takes about one hour itself.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what if you have nothing?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: I am seeing Swami right in front of me.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: How do I tell uh how many liters is swami?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: Then it becomes interesting.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: We will have to do these games, we will have to do these, I mean, such activities.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know that the human density is very close to one.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: We are 90, you know, 85%, whatever our density is very close to one.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we actually do not drown, literally.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we drown till our heads, but we drown because we cannot breathe, our noses.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: We do not we if you dive in a pool, you can never touch the uh you know the bottom of the pool.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: You will be you know hanging in there because you are almost one, right?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Your density is one.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it is very clear, and in fact, a little um uh more than one, depending on whether you have air inside or less or whatever.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: But let's assume because we drown, let's say we are a little bit more than one.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if I know if some is 70 kgs, he must be 68 liters because that's the definition of density.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: Mass by volume, if it is greater than one, his volume has to be a little less than the weight.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, and that is why when I buy oil, I should buy in kg and not in liter because oil is lighter than water.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is where I'm applying.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is where I'm applying uh what I learnt in school or what I should have learnt in school, or what what should I have experienced when I learned the definition of a density?
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: That when I buy oil in kg, I get more oil instead of buying in liter and vice versa for solid and things like that, and and lots of different things.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is what we do.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: We will make it very experiential.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: First times in your life, you will experience density.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: You will experience density, you will not learn density, you will not um get the formula, you will experience it.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: You will figure out that this one liter bottle of empty bottle of water, which if you fill a lot of nails, you can feel that it will be very heavy, more than one kg, right?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: You fill um uh you know iron nails in one liter bottle of water, that is one liter of iron, not one kg of iron.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: That is how we'll do it.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I don't know what question you were asking, I forgot.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I think uh I think the fact that uh uh uh how do you make it uh you know how you make it uh uh application oriented, right?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Application oriented, right, right.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: So so you were saying parabola, right?
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: Of course we made it very uh, I mean, it is super application.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the there is a story that is a very interesting story, right?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: We will read in class I think 11 that you know, if you point uh, by the way, you shoot a gun, right?
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: These uh co-forts guns and this and that, it always follows a parabola.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: We'll learn that in class nine or eleven or whatever.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um it takes the shape of a parabola, right?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: You any any ball, volleyball, football, cricket ball, everyone takes the shape of a parabola.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, so uh and and and for you to shoot the farthest for a bowler to throw from the boundary line to the wicket keeper, you should throw it at 45 degrees because at that angle it goes the farthest, right?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: Horizontal distance comfort, of course.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: Vertical distance, like we discussed, is the same and so on and so forth.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: It turns out that they had to figure out when they made this machine the longest ever gun ever made was called this.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it was called the uh Paris gun, big bertha.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: Some people also call it Big Bertha.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think about 110 feet long muzzle, 100 feet long that Lali.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay, biggest gun ever made by the Germans, and they wanted to fire and land their uh uh um you know gola on on Paris.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: And those they said, care what angle should we throw the sand so that it goes the farthest.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people like me, engineers like me, sir.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: We have read in class 11 you should put at 45, and they did, and it landed short, it didn't go where it wanted, it should have gone.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then they sort of uh realized that uh with the experience, or maybe whoever, I don't know, somebody somebody who has not uh had this kind of formal schooling said, make it 51, and I think they made it 55 or 51, I forget.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: 10 degrees more than what the book says it should be, and then it went 50 miles further.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it?
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, is it?
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: So when you are firing, really, you don't fire at 45, because 45 is true only when there is no air drag, when there is no friction, when there is no gravity, all of that stuff, right?
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: But in our earth spinning around, there is Coriolis force and this and that, which is um which is which is a little higher uh order thing, but but regardless, right?
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Even just taking into drag, the reason it goes higher when you even aim higher.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you do 90 degrees, it will fall on your head, right?
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not good.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um the reason you do it 45, 55, and we believe this as the answer.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: Ask our teachers to sort of think about why, right?
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think it should go higher, even though the mathematics says it should be much lower?
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you shoot it higher, it goes higher in the atmosphere, and higher in the atmosphere, there is less air, right?
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so it has less friction, less air drag, and that's why even a little bit of speed, it can uh you know take it much farther.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, horizontal speed to sleep.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there are two things, opposing things that are coming together, and you know, the that's why the answer is not 45, it is actually 55.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is very application, super application.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: Up they go up ugly bars you know, cricket ball chakra maro ya, boundary lines of hako, you figure out that this is application, it is required.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: But but I will also say this, right?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think we cannot make and we should not, right?
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: We have to realize that education or subject or this is also inherently joyous, and that has to be also the one of the focus, right?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: Next time when you go watch a, you know, you go on riverfront, it is a good place in Amdabad, right?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right next to Sabarmati, nice place, this, that, or you go to Uti or Shimla or wherever.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you go there and you watch the scenery, nice, beautiful, right?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: You feel it feels nice.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever ask what is the relationship of this in my life?
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is Sekya muje fai the mile?
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: You you don't do that, right?
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: When you go and look at a good painting, you don't, you know, you don't say, Oh, am I getting going to get a good job by watching this painting or watching a good movie?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, you do it because it just feels nice, it is joyous.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some of the things in the subject have to be also told and done like that.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is joyous, maybe not for you, and that's okay.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe swami kele chi joyous na yeah, but as a ni o saktaya, right?
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: We will just show you beautiful things and which are joyous in their own right.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be a utility value.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think the problem with this is the biggest problem with education today.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: I had written a note about why um a lot of people are not pursuing medicine in in the middle class, right?
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you look at your WhatsApp group, I guarantee you nobody, no uh young child is is pursuing medicine, right?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because you know, it's a menat karna part that I'm gonna do.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: Why should we might as well just do computer science?
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: I will get you know money and sit in a you know all that.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: We have, in fact, and and and I I think that it's a huge thing that one should be worried about as a society, right?
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have associated education with utility.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: What is the utility?
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: Iska kya fida, isse muje kyao, isse, and and everything is associated with fida is okay, but fida is being measured in only one term, right?
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that term is the job and the money.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: We are not measuring it with self-esteem, satisfaction, this, that, this second order, intangible, supposedly intangible, but whoever huge which have huge influence in my life.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm making much less, I'm making, you know, maybe I've never calculated, but maybe 40-50 times less than uh what I used to do in terms of salary and you know, all of this.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: But that does not mean it is not valuable for me what I do, right?
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, I'm not gonna go, but teacher ko pushes.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you get a good job at wherever you are.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: But there are, like they say, ko add or then there are lots of things in life that money can buy for you know all of that, right?
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that is something that we have to look at.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: Education, yes, it has to be utilitarian, it has to make sense, but everything cannot be boiled down to utility.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: There is inherent joy and mazah uh in the subject itself that that that can and should be enjoyed and different things for different people.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, absolutely.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: I am in 100% uh uh agreement with you, and uh, in fact, uh it resonates with me because that's really uh I'm an engineer, but I went into advertising, right?
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, uh suddenly I had to you know solve ambiguous problems.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: As an engineer, I was all always uh looking at uh flow charts and things like that, but suddenly they told me a problem where say make people buy mutual funds.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and I I was in a world where uh people uh thought UTA was not a mutual fund, right?
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore I had to go and advertise for a mutual fund.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: So then I had to uh I had to I had to build the problem very differently.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm in the so I'm in 300% agreement with you.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now that you've done the teacher training, you've built a certain amount of fire and spirit in their uh in their mind.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is does the uh uh does a part of your job also go back and then say how do they apply it in the schools that uh they go back and therefore what kind of outcomes are you able to measure with this kind of an approach?
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever no?
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's an interesting question.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think it's a good question and uh uh interesting.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then we get asked this question a lot, right?
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, what is it that impact and how and of course, lots of answers, of course, too early to measure.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: These are long-term things that we are looking at in some sense, and I'm not trying to evade uh you know the question, and there is an importance, right?
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: We should measure what is it, uh uh, you know, uh, and and we we did some exercise, we worked with Amdawad Municipal Corporation.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: We went we went to 274 of their schools and we had uh you know a pre-test and post-test, and clearly pre-post tests showed um that you know uh uh the results were much better.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't remember the numbers, but results were much better than the pretest, right?
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: So children do get the concepts that we're talking about.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: Children do get interested in things that we're uh you know going to do.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: Does it have an impact in their lives?
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's a very long study.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we've done that.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, with respect to the teachers that we have done work with, you know, we we uh the moment the teachers come and register, uh they become a part of this WhatsApp group, right?
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that we sort of maintain in most uh in most cases with most of our workshops.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and they are always part of that group, uh, right?
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we anything that new that we do.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the most interesting thing that we do, or at least I would say, other than um the the the soul uh or whatever the energy that we sort of uh uh require to do all this work, to carry on this work, is that WhatsApp group, right?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: When they, I mean it is it is so amazing to read their messages, to read their pictures, to read their uh, you know, uh to share the pictures that they sent of what they did in their classes.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: So what happens is uh, you know, whatever we do with them, they invariably try to do the same activities or similar activities in their classes, and then they will send these pictures uh and share the stories of uh how the classes.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, if you look at uh this program that we did 3030 stem, the the the feedback is all there online 3030 stem slash uh feedback, cclidgnaic.in slash 3030 stem slash feedback.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's very clear.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: People are saying this is the only way.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: The activities that we saw in 3030 stem are the only things that are interesting enough, and that is what we do uh you know, even in online, you know, the jala that we make out of a the longest 30 meter jal 30 meter garland you can make from a simple A4 sheet of paper, or fold it 11 times and measure the thickness, and if you fold it 43 times, you reach the moon and and uh stories like that.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the things that uh you know are are happening in the classes, like the graduation cap uh thing that we do where we make you know seven different kinds of uh caps, and then we talk about rational numbers and irrational numbers and mensuration and things like those are the activities, so all of the activities which sort of can be done, I would say a lot of things also are interesting and common, they are being done in the schools.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all the teachers who are coming, they are actually doing these activities in the classes.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, in terms of uh whether it is leading to uh a change um in terms of the marks, I don't know.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh in that sense, we will also have to design our questions in that regard, right?
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: Our questions are not designed in the way that uh you know really tests for the understanding, in my opinion.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: They are very um uh you know designed in a different manner.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, hopefully, all the boards are actually interestingly, CBSC board and maybe others also are actually looking at uh doing some changes in that.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh um whether they are uh you know longer term in their lives or whatever, I don't know.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have I have heard people saying this is the first time that I feel proud to be a maths teacher, and I want my uh son to pursue uh this is the feedback that I'm getting.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: Other people are saying, Oh, I want to come to IIT Gandhina Gar Victoria and to see this is what IIT does, this is what is happening in IIT, uh, and I want to you know be part of this uh you know, whatever movement.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully some changes.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't done that measurement at that scale.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one crore people watched one crore views of the program, but I I don't think we did this survey of uh other than whatever messages people sent.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: We are on a very small team, by the way.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, uh very small.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, I understand that, and uh honestly, the reason I asked this question is uh I've been talking to a lot of uh people who have gone to the best of the institutes, right?
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: Then they fly off to the US, they go to a Stanford, they go to a Cornell, and then I had one person tell me that I never understood DOI by DX.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was in IIT, okay.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but the way Holmes taught me DOI by DX with real life applications in Cornel really was when I understood DUI by DX.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, this is a podcast that a person told me, okay?
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, what I'm really looking for is the transformation of our educational institutions to that level.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is really what we are looking at, and that's the reason I'm wanting to measure it.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because the way I am seeing it is if you don't do that, uh it has to become a massive movement.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really where I think the work that you are doing is phenomenal because how do you make it a movement and we ensure that there are teachers who explain these concepts to kids very well, and then ask them the question, leave them with an inquisitive question or a curiosity.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: That I think is very critical.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: How we do that on scale is something that uh that's the reason I asked that question.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, absolutely.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't agree more, and I think we are working, and that is where you know we will probably start.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, your podcast, when it goes out, maybe can reach out.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: We will start this series called the Eklavia series now.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we did 3030 STEM, and you know, people really liked it.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we had these people saying, Look, you connected the heart and the head and the heart, right?
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: Head is where you are, but it was also the connection at the heart, right?
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lot of emotional connect we had with the person.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, um we had the board.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh, you know, we are working with CBSC to see if we can do it together.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but CBSC was very interested to do this again with us um because you know we we we actually together we did a great job.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we are now trying to do uh this Eklavya series.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Eklavya, of course, is a reason, right?
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: Eklavya, you know, children are sitting at home, there are no druna charyas, and so uh this is the name we came up with, or or uh somebody suggested, and so this will be 3030 Eklavya.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the idea is the same or similar, but this time we are trying to reach to the students also, uh, along with the last time we uh the focus was teachers.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, so of course, I mean the idea is to reach out, and and and in that sense, I think um I think working with with schools, working with the boards uh will be extremely important.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: All our stuff that we did in 3030 time, all I think 26 lectures are all on the Deeksha platform.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: Deeksha platform is a is a place where every teacher, whether it is private school or public school, are supposed to go and do their teacher trainings and this and that.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so all our episodes are are there.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think 13 are there.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: The first season is there, the second season, you know, it takes time to go through all the process and this and that to get the stuff there.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully it'll be there.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we're trying to convert that into smaller segments right now.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're you know, they are you know 15 minute videos or 75 minute videos, and we're trying to Make them small, small chunks, something that talks about parabola or something that talks about uh, you know, uh day four sheet of paper, ratio, proportion, this, that, whatever.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_01: So once that is done, it will be a great resource for every teacher to sort of look at and then make a lesson plan or whatever they want to based on that, right?
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll try to figure out what is it that I want to do and then use this as a resource and uh do these activities in the class and make it interesting.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's we are looking at that level.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: We are looking hopefully, uh and you know, I don't know how it goes but you know, hopefully, hopefully more people will like it and watch it.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there was one more uh thing that I saw which uh attracted my attention, uh Professor Manish was you talked about how our education builds in an economy of fear.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and uh that's something that uh you spoke about.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_00: So can you uh can you talk about what is that you know economy of fear our education builds in our people?
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give me some context so then I can relate it better?
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_00: So so so what you what you are really saying is that uh you know uh when once you finish this education, there is this whole fear of you know, oh, I have to earn so much.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now that you know I have to buy this house, then I have to do this.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_00: So then you are constantly fighting, and therefore you are then left in your career with the economy of fear because you're constantly wanting to achieve something.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know uh uh that's really what I think you spoke about.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and what then happens is uh, and interestingly, this is something that uh you know uh uh another uh you know uh Ashwin Mahalingam also spoke about saying that investment uh is not just till you get your degree, but you also have to invest after you get the degree, right?
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, you know, you can't reap the dividends just after you uh you know get the graduation.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I saw a very, very uh interesting uh you know uh uh comparison with your economy of fear because then I'm actually running behind because I know you if I lose this, I don't get this.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: If I don't lose this, I don't get that.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's really what I think you spoke about, right?
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think two, three things.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh one, of course, if I look at fear itself, uh then there is I I would say good fear and bad fear, right?
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and and and some of that is maybe maybe required.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: But even before that, right, yesterday or I think a couple of days back, I read this very interesting article which said, um, why are we working so goddamn much?
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: Something like that.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: That was the title.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: There is this show called the Ezra Klein Show.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you know about it.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is uh it is done on in New York Times, and this is actually a podcast, okay, like yours, right?
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so maybe you should read it.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_01: You'll get interesting people and ask.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: So this there is this person, I forget his or her name.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I now that I don't even remember if it was a male or a female, but uh regardless.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh so she was saying in 1938, no, this was this very famous economist, uh, one of the most famous manyard keems or yeah yeah, okay.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_01: Some some teams or some some some famous economists, right at the height of depression, right, in 1938, he made this statement or 28.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: He made this statement that 100 years from now, the society will be in such abundance that we will be working 15 hours a week.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's the statement that he made.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so this was a talk about that, right?
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_01: Why, and the title is also by God, why the dam are be working so something, some something like that.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that is that.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so now she she said, or he says, or whoever the author was uh saying that um this this abundance thing, at least with respect to US, they have finished 20-30 years before, right?
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the amount of abundance that that person was talking about, people have abundance, superabundance in terms of food, uh, mostly 90, 90, 95, whatever, right?
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_01: Large percentage, right?
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: But still they are working uh much, much more because the abundance has created this more needs, more wants, more every uh become becomes a need, right?
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So the the whole thing has become more need, need more need need.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh one one need is finished, and before that, another need has been planted in my mind, in my opinion, right?
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the biggest thing, in my opinion, in that sense, is this TV, right?
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard some people that if you have to fix violence in the world or make the world a better place, just get rid of TV across the world, right?
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all that TV does is tell you, oh, you are bald, you should buy this.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, tumara kalakra bay.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_01: The whole point of a TV is to tell you what is wrong with you and make you work harder and go slog to buy something and then come uh relax in front of a TV and then TV will tell you again.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it just tells you all that is wrong with you.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_01: It never tells what is right, right?
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Poor at time, the purpose of advertisement is to tell you wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, yeah, but everything will get fixed if you work harder and go and uh you know, and that I think has become the um the the mantra of of our life.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful film called The Story of Stuff by um I forget Ellen Lenny Annie Leonard, okay, right from Berkeley.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful 18-minute film, uh animated film, story of stuff, and then she made lots of other films: story of bottle water, story of uh cosmetics, this, that, whatever.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, stuff was it, and that there she she talks about it.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is where this this thing keeps on driving this this fear of uh we don't know what is going to happen.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_01: We are in a state, maybe her parents were not, right?
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Where they were not sure whether you know there will be food on the table.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, large middle class today in India is sort of assured of food on the table, maybe not paneer, maybe not paneer, but definitely uh you know, regular Rodi Sabjay and regular achar, achar miljatayar, sadhan and achar is something, you know, whether it is Am achar or whatever achar is is totally available.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, maybe not paneer.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying we should not um uh dream of paneer, and paneer is just a word for let's assume uh money, exotic food or what exotic or whatever you want to call it, but there is we are assured, so somewhere there has to be talk when when I talk about education, it is not just math and science.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the reason people come and sit in 22 uh days for our talks, I would say 60-70 percent maybe maybe will be science and math, but the 30-40 percent will be something else.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Will be the real purpose of what the education or science is.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Story of um this guy, um uh Haber, Fritz Haber, the guy who got a Nobel Prize in 1937 for inventing Haber's process, uh, which is urea, which is why uh there is so much food today in the world that you know we survive.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in fact, some people say half the population today is alive because of this guy called Fritz Haber, and because he invented urea very commercial and because of which you can grow more food than we need, and so on and so forth.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say he is also the person because of which 80% of fishes have died because urea runoff.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_01: He's also the person because of which we grow so much food that we can grow so much animals and then we kill those animals and eat, right?
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if there is not so much corn, we wouldn't have so many um uh you know cows in the US on or in uh that we can kill and eat them, right?
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so that so it has multiple stories, but unless we are going to talk about this, we are we have no idea, we have no idea, we have no examples of people who are saying, Look, I have I need this much, and I have decided that whether it is whoever um, you know, and and there has to be the real butlap, there has to be talk about why it is that I am doing what I am doing.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, right?
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, pause the rural, pause, if these are not the talks that are happening in in in with teachers, then everybody is ending up becoming an N, which is great, become an NG.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_01: But you can't already, you know, your parents are well, you have a business, this, that, whatever.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one has to pause and think um why I want to do what I really want to do.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is that is very critical to this fear thing that that that you're talking about.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I wanted to ask a question, uh, you know, a couple of last set of questions, which is really uh how did you how did you uh pitch the creative center of learning at IIT Gandhianagar?
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And uh uh that's something that interests me a lot because this is totally uh uh you know offbeat, right?
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, you don't get to see a creative center of learning anywhere, and then you just go out and say, I want to build this, and then you're given a space to do it.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did you go about pitching this?
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what should you know uh schools and colleges do to set up these kind of creative center of learning so that they become uh you know uh places of uh they become the coffee shop of learning, right?
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_00: If I were to call it.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah?
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I'm I'm just wondering how is it that you get these questions in your head?
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a very, very interesting question.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I sometimes, I mean, I'm amazed, Swami, by your um, of course, uh the kind of questions you you have in your mind.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is a I mean, I think it's a very, very fundamentally important question.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, it has a story, and uh, you know, I'll I'll tell you that story, right?
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it was 2000, I think, 14 or 15, something like that.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And in that sense, I would say IIT Gandhina is probably the only place in the whole country, if if I don't know about the world or whatever, which has such lab.
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Nowhere in this, and especially in an IIT which is supposed to do uh you know something else or whatever, right?
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, no other place, no other place that I know of.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And as a result, I think uh wherever we have done these workshops in in lots of these IITs, every every single uh director is saying, you know, why don't you uh you know start something here?
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't we start something here either as collaboration or this or that?
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, when to IT Kanpur, the director said, You are from Kanpur, why don't you do that?
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_01: I said, No, it uh so, anyways, I think it's a very interesting question.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_01: 2014 or 15, I remember uh IT.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think IT is a different place in my opinion.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very different place, very different environment.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_01: The ethos is different, the philosophy is different, the the reason why we do what we do is very different.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Engineers to Banay the other, engineer to banange, that but she will be an engineer anyway.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Can we make them something more than an engineer?
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_01: That is the philosophy here, right?
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Other than the engineer.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or more realized uh engineers or whatever you want to call it, right?
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that is why eight humanities courses every in the whole, right?
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Every semester, one humanities course.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, no engineering college does that, right?
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_01: We do this foundation program, uh, you know, all explorers uh fellowship, this, that, whatever.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_01: But so so, in that sense, we used to have this program called Foundation Program.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_01: First six weeks when you enter IT, no classes, no formal classes, six weeks.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Other ITs are saying, oh, other I mean the children when they come here, they're saying, Oh, Hamare bojo satia boani IT Mika tu abi pura calculus, double calculus viskadi, triple calculus viskadi, amariato chalu, six of the nothing, they are just doing drama and dance and creativity and uh you know uh workshop with Manish and this, that, whatever.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because we really feel that that is what will ignite that creativity, bring back that mojo which you've lost preparing for this exam, right?
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that is what is required to get you a little grounded, right?
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so on so forth.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that is why we do this program.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_01: So long story short, 2015.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think um somehow uh I think the uh the organizers here of the foundation program came to know about um uh you know Arvind Gupta and my and and they called uh Arvind Gupta to come and give a workshop.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Arvind Gupta, of course, I didn't want to travel and he said Manish, why don't you go?
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's how I ended up coming here.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I did a two-day workshop with the first-year students, um, and uh apparently it was supposedly the best workshop that they had in the whole thing.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think the director came to know about it.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_01: He called me for a meeting.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the director is a very interesting chap.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, I listened I listened to her, I listened to him also.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was amazed.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So he had actually just came from the US uh that particular day in the morning, right?
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I even I was flying, you know, taking my train back to Pune by 10 o'clock, and he finished his meeting at 8:30 or something, and he said, Why don't you come meet me?
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I said, sir, I heard you know, I have a train at uh 9.30.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_01: So no, I mean we have half an hour, which is it.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So he called like he's an amazing guy.
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_01: So he called me at 8:30.
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um I had my train to catch at 10 or something like that, you know, overnight train from Abdabad to um and uh he said uh asked and he said very interesting program.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard and I said, Yeah, I'm Achalakta, that is why we're doing any.
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he asked about my background, this and that, and he said, Manish, why don't you start a lab here?
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_01: How much is your karja in uh Puna?
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_01: I said uh this this amount.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_01: He said that's it.
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, this plus 10 lakhs more.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Here is the check.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Start it from tomorrow.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_01: We are not asking questions and you know, uh approvals, this that's in the couple friends or whatever, there is a project that is going on.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, he kept following up.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I also was also interested, and I think when the project there Arvunji retired, project got over 2017.
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_01: We decided to start that lab, and I could see a lot of possibilities here given given this place as a uh you know, and and and that is one of the reasons why uh you know we have been able to reach out to so many people is because because the environment here, the philosophy, the belief uh in doing something that is that can have a larger impact, that is more meaningful, and all of that stuff in this campus in acting and so that is how it started.
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I I think it's the place.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and and and and I hope uh we have had lots of people who are saying, why don't you start this and uh why help us start this in every and that is what we want.
• 1:20:12
  SPEAKER_01: This this place should not be limited to uh uh you know IT card.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing, I mean, there is special, but there, you know, this is it's not a lot of money that you need and things like that.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_01: You just need good, you know, you just need people, right?
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people who are interested, and so so hopefully, because of this program, more people are getting interested.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_01: We are also trying to put everything that we are trying to do.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because we are a small team, it will take time.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Everything that we've done online.
• 1:20:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we have we have we are creating this hundred series, series series of hundred videos, and you have this uh 200 very small uh box, a small box which has all these uh you know, saman, right?
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Straws, magnets, fire, whatever, and explanatory, beautiful activity videos using which you can you know do a lot of this stuff and start your own lab.
• 1:20:56
  SPEAKER_01: You would be, I mean, and and and and and that is where I think CBSC and other state boards are actually interested.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_01: See that such corners um uh you know can be uh toy-based pedagogy and the same.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, in fact, no, in fact, I would uh I would agree that this kind of pedagogy is the future because you have to really ignite the mind.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's really what I'm excited about.
• 1:21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I want to uh end up with a last question to you, which is uh if you were to become a 10-year-old and advise your 10-year-old self, three things, what would be the three pieces of advice would you give yourself?
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_00: You discovered it when you were 38, right?
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_00: But imagine uh you were a 10-year-old and you were to advise uh your 10-year-old now that you've had so much of experience.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_00: There is something very interesting.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I actually asked a lot of my friends, which is what I would say, hey, if you have to go back, right, and assume that you cannot take anything that you learned in uh a lot of times we say, No, my childhood was very good.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_01: I want to go back, you know, adulthood.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_01: So imagine if you have an option of going back.
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you cannot take any wisdom, anything that you've learned from here.
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, uh, do you want to relive your childhood or to you know, because childhood was better than adulthood in Pagan?
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I think most of at least I would why would I want to repeat the same thing?
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_01: If I go back and I don't carry anything, I will be doing exactly the same thing that I as I did.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's the point on spending more time doing the same thing?
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned so many things in my life.
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, so I'm actually confused by the question that you were asking, and that's what so the question that I'm asking is uh in at the age of 38, you know, you discovered uh the the joy of learning something.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but imagine if you if you actually knew it when you were 10, right?
• 1:22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So then what would uh you know the the amount of things you would not have wasted 20 years doing it, right?
• 1:22:55
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, so if you were to advise a 10-year-old, uh, you know, say that you know, I think there are lots of advice you've already given, but I would say don't say don't learn for the sake of learning.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Find the joy of doing it.
• 1:23:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, so I I would actually say, I hope I this has not been an advice, right?
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't think that is how I wanted it to be.
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is just an honest sharing.
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_01: I actually think if I look back, I would not want it to be any different.
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is value in that um in that realizing that there was whatever, not much and this and that.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_01: There is a lot of value.
• 1:23:29
  SPEAKER_01: There is not in terms of, you know, of course, it would have been better if I had been engaged uh at the age of 10, I found joy, but there is a lot of value that uh maybe I wouldn't be so passionate about, you know, making a difference, making a change, making an impact, this, that, had I not gone through that grief in some sense, right?
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know how how what I missed.
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_01: If I didn't miss, maybe I won't have that pain, right?
• 1:23:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is so so I don't know what to say, except uh there is a value, there is a value to going through that pain and loss and whatever it is, right?
• 1:24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because that also gives you a lot of um you know stuff to actually do something.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine if everything is rosy, this, that, or whatever.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean it is good uh that people know um, you know, that there is joy in mathematics, this and that.
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_01: But at some time it is also more joyous having gone through that 19,000.
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying we should, but that 19,200 hours of KD um is also is is also in that sense.
• 1:24:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would not disc I would I would actually say I it is it is um I would not change.
• 1:24:37
  SPEAKER_01: I would let it be the way if if I had to uh I would not let it be it was just it is just fine.
• 1:24:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think it is fantastic.
• 1:24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually uh not heard an answer like this.
• 1:24:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that itself is a great thing.
• 1:24:50
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so thank you very much.
• 1:24:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was uh energizing conversation, I must say.
• 1:24:56
  SPEAKER_00: I learned a lot, and uh the enthusiasm and the uh inspiration with which uh you know you said things is really what has even motivated me.
• 1:25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so thanks a lot, and it was absolutely phenomenal talking to you.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks a lot, and I'm sure we'll have a lot of episodes coming out with you, and I I think it's it's been one of the best conversations I've ever had.
• 1:25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it is a pleasure.
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, I thanks for listening to my conversation with Professor Martin.
• 1:25:30
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• 1:25:59
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