Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Winning vs. Losing

Transcript

Winning vs. Losing · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Competition as an entity doesn't function without queer winners and losers.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: But in the dance competition culture of today, there are fewer opportunities for participants to lose at all.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: In today's episode of Making the Impact, we explore the benefits of both winning and losing and discuss what is lost when we don't allow our dancers to lose.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, dance world, and welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: I am your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I am here with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: Hi Courtney, how are ya?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so good and happy February and Oh my gosh.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's Leslie's birthday! Come on today!
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: Happy birthday, Leslie! Yep, it's my birthday, so we're gonna do a little celebrating.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like having a winter birthday because there's less you can do.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: You can't really go do a lot of things, but I think I am going to, as this is released, probably be in a sauna somewhere or a spa.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the plan.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: As you should be.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I wish you the happiest birthday.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I hope 2022 brings you love and life and good things and good vibes and lots of presents.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking about your birthday trip.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was pre-pandemic.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was right before the pandemic.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Atlantic City.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: I won$300.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: That was a good birthday.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Damazing.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: And you won$300.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that was the before times.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that I'm gonna go to a casino anytime soon.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say I'll take you back, but I don't know if it's the time right now.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't think it's time being those uh very uh non-ventilated places.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, happy birthday, Leslie.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: We love you.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't make this podcast possible without you.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And yay for February birthdays.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Mine's coming up.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know yours is coming up too.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, today on the podcast, we are talking about winning versus losing.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that this topic is important to have at the top of competition season because there is going to be a lot of both happening for some.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe some of you will win, maybe more of you will lose.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, on like the ratio is usually how that plays out.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think it's important to kind of walk into the season with this new perspective and approach.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you'll learn something new from this discussion with our guests about winning and losing today, which I'm excited to talk about with you all, you listeners, and have you listening to this episode.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So before we jump in, we want to remind you all to please join our Facebook group, which about this time last year is when this Facebook group came about.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: We decided to create a Facebook group.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't joined it yet, it's called Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast Community.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: We will link to it in our show notes.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can just click the link and join us there.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna have to answer a few questions to enter, and that includes sharing your email if you'd like to join our mailing list, which every week we share our latest episode release.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that'll go straight to your inbox.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: But we also ask what your favorite episode is on making the impact and also how you are connected and affiliated in the competitive dance world.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are a dancer, a dance teacher, a dance professional, a dance studio owner, you are more than welcome to join.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a lot of fun discussions over there.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of polls, we have dancers and dance parents sharing what events they're attending each weekend and posting photos of their achievements.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a it's a really fun group.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and as of today, we have over 1,200 members.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you all for our your support and your the conversations we have there.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: We love it.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, we do.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: And as usual, we have to tell you about our sponsors because we couldn't produce this podcast without their support.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: And this season, we're happy to have back Level Up Dance Supplies as one of our season sponsors.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: They were established in 2010 and are a dance mom-owned and operated business.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: Level Up Dance Supplies is your one-stop shop for all of your dance gear needs.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: They have everything from stretching tools to dance bags, and Level Up Dance Supplies takes great pride in the quality of each product that they offer while still maintaining the lowest prices of any retailer or competitor.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: Whether you're a serious competitive or recreational dancer, Level Up Dance Supplies should be at the top of your list of places to shop for all of your dance equipment.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: Use the code ImpactS21 at checkout in all caps at levelupdanceupplies.com.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd like to remind everyone out there who is listening to buy us a coffee if you want to support our podcast.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: That is on our Kofi account that we launched for season three.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we have been receiving so many generous donations from so many fans from all over the world.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you to everyone who's already sent us a Ko-fi donation.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: We love you, we appreciate you, and we love giving you all shout-outs on the pod.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to share a recent Kofi donation from Karen.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And Karen said, Thanks for bringing up the topics that we all need to hear.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Which I think is definitely true.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: We are definitely doing that over here.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome, Karen.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're so welcome, Karen.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And another review is coming to us from Apple Podcasts.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And this is from KT Cruz.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it says, This podcast is amazing.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a dance mom judge, competitive director, and teacher of 20 plus years.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you, thank you, thank you for all of this information.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love the guests and Courtney and Leslie.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: The conversations are open and honest and from every viewpoint.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for diving in and having the conversations we all want to have.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, two people agree.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if you would love to show your love to Making the Impact, head on over to Kofi.com slash making the impact to buy us a coffee, or you can head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's time to meet our special guest IDA judges who are joining us on this discussion today.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And first up, I'm excited to welcome back a returning guest who is a longtime friend of mine who is also working on the back end of the IDA admin team.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you may remember her from season one, episode 17, The Evolution of Acro, and also on season two, episode 37, Best Practices for Block Scheduling.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to welcome back my friend Marissa Anderson to the podcast.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Courtney.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Leslie.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, Brittany.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Nice to meet you.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm super excited to be here and I'm really interested and intrigued about today's topic.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, yeah.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited when you uh told me you were interested.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, yeah, let's let's go, Marissa.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's bring her back on.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about it.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So feel free to remind our listeners out there a little bit more about you.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I am previously Marissa Stanick, now Marissa Anderson.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: I got married and I recently had a baby.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: A little boy.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: His name's Finn.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: He is perfect.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: He is the most amazing thing ever.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: But as for my dance credits, I grew up in Michigan.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: I went to a very competitive dance studio in Michigan and continued my dance training into college, where I went to Western Michigan University.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was awarded multiple scholarships and also had the chance to work with choreographers like George Faison, Lu Conti, and then also one of Doug Varone's dancers at the time, Eddie Takeda, which was awesome.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: I also performed and was chosen, my choreography was chosen to be performed at the American College Dance Festival in Washington, D.C.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: That was super awesome.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: As for my professional credits, they include Royal Caribbean Cruise Line, Spirit Dublin Productions, GP Cabaret.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: I've also done television performances on TLC's Cake Boss, Lifetime's Dance Mom, CBS's Blue Bloods, and ABC's Good Morning America.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have been judging for, I want to say like 11 years now, maybe 12.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: I have lost count, but I absolutely love it.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I I am also an educator as well.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: I teach at two different dance studios on Long Island, and I love it.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: I love judging, I love teaching, and I love spreading all of my education to young dancers.
• 8:58
  unknown: Yeah.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: And you have covered all of the TV networks.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, I was on CBS, I was on ABC, I was on TLC.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is awesome.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm always happy to have you back, Marissa.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for joining us again on the pod.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I am so happy to be here and Leslie.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it's nice to meet you, Britney.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: I just so great to do this.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love this podcast.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yay! Thanks for your support since day one.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Love you.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And our very next special guest is brand new to the podcast and also a brand new IDA judge on the roster for the 2022 season.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to welcome Britney Collins to our podcast.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Brittany.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, thank you for having me, uh, Leslie and Courtney, and very nice to meet you, Marissa.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I am also very excited and in a healthy way anxious to be here because these are conversations that need to happen in an environment where they're allowed to happen and we're able to be open about some of these topics.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm super excited to be a part of it.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: As far as my background, I grew up at a very competitive studio as well in St.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Louis, Missouri, and we didn't do a lot of traveling, we did a lot of local competitions.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really kind of wanted to expand my continued education in college.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was on a competitive dance team in high school and in college, and then got injured.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so those injuries kind of stopped my kind of my career in dance, and I really had to figure out how to mentally transition.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really transitioned my energy into being an educator and a choreographer.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I am also a licensed professional counselor, so I am a mental health therapist and I see a lot of dancers and a lot of athletes because the performance anxiety and the anxiety that are in these kids today is kind of nuts.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of all the expectations we put on them is a lot, and I am very passionate about helping educate dance teachers in my community and surrounding communities about how to protect the mental health of dancers because we gotta be able to grow up and be functioning adults in society too.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I serve as vice president on the board of Resilience Dance Company here in St.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Louis, and I provide pro bono group counseling services to their company.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I also in the community work and choreograph with dancers in different studios with special needs like autism or Down syndrome or things like that to help them be a part of the dance community as well.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited that we have you on this episode of being a licensed therapist and know, you know, I'm sure you've uh spoke to a lot of dancers who are trying to navigate rejection and things like that, which we're definitely going to discuss in this episode.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: But also for all of our listeners out there, we are doing an upcoming mental health for dancers episode that's a little bit later in our season.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's launching in the next few weeks.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: So stay tuned for that.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think that'll be an important one that will honestly go hand in hand with some of the things that we're gonna talk about today.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much, Brittany, for joining us.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm excited to talk about winning and losing in the competitive dance world.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's not necessarily, you know, we've as of this recording, I don't know what this title is for this episode, but we've been we've been going back and forth kind of about what the title should be because this season we've been doing a lot of of episodes that sort of present as a battle, like a versus.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: And this one I don't know necessarily, it's not a verse, you know, it's not a battle, but it it does sometimes feel like a battle between am I gonna win, am I gonna lose, am I gonna beat her?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: Am I gonna beat him?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Am I gonna, you know?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that, you know, a battle might be the right terminology when you really think about it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: But so I want to jump in with some controversy at the beginning.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: We might as well just go there.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: So losing as a concept in society has kind of disappeared from our culture.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: This was not happening when we were kids.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you showed up to some sort of event or field day or something, you didn't get a participation trophy or a ribbon.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: You just did the thing, and that was your that was your award was to be able to go do the thing.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: But now, you know, even things like a field day, you get a participation trophy.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: And nobody necessarily is allowed to lose.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: And my question is, and I'd love to hear from both Britney and Marissa, but specifically Brittany, with your with your mental health background, what do you think is lost when we don't allow kids to lose?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: Or just people, but kids specifically, because we talk a lot about kids on this podcast.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not real.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not real to go through life and experience wins all the time, not just in the competitive dance world, but situations and experiences throughout life, right?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like we all experience things that are unexpected or are not necessarily what we wanted or how we wanted it to go.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if we create an environment for our kids that only allows them to feel that success, then we're not gonna have any skills on how to deal with the moments that aren't necessarily success.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of sucks because there's a lot of growth opportunities in in those in those moments where we're not losing or we're not getting the result that we want.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also a lot of lessons to be learned there that are not gonna be learned if we don't give our kids that opportunity.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: When I was asked to do this specific topic for this podcast, I kept thinking about this movie called Inside Out.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: And feeling the highs, you can't feel the highs without feeling the lows.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually think that that movie is, even though it's a kids' cartoon, I think it speaks more and it's deeper to like adults and about how our range of motion, the range of emotion is so important.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think that sometimes if you constantly win, I don't know, I don't know if you would work as hard as if you lost, you know, 80% of the time and won 20% of the time, you know.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: I do have to preface everything that we say as like a pre-pandemic.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like I understand right now it feels like we're all kind of losing, right?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: If that makes sense.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I just want to preface this whole conversation with that is that it let's let's take this conversation as if we weren't in the middle of a of a world pandemic.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and and trying to to trying to just like figure it out and making sure that our kids are are healthy in losing and in winning, that kind of thing.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I also feel like there's a really big negative connotation with the word losing, right?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because we think of loser and there's a really negative connotation with that.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that word has been used to bully and put people down.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And just because you're losing doesn't mean that we're not recognizing the work and the things that were put in to get you on stage and get you to that point, right?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: It just means that you weren't the best in that setting.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not that there's anything wrong with you personally, and we're not, we're not forgetting all of the work that you did to get you to that point.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that you are a loser when you lose.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: And that's so important.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's that's semantics, but it's also real.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just a word, it's a word that ha carries a lot of weight, you know, in so many circumstances.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: So that's I think that's so important to to consider.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: And Marissa, like you said, you know, what you were thinking about when you were being asked to do this episode was the movie, which I love that movie.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: I love that movie so much.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's so great.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: My thought was I like to cook, but I am not a cook.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I also don't like to follow recipes because I am impatient.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: However, when you do not follow the recipe and you don't do what's asked of you, like the way it was asked of you, your meal's probably not going to be that great.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I've had situations recently where I thought I was doing everything right or I thought like maybe this little dash of this here, like a little less of that's gonna be fine.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: It was not fine.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I lost that meal was trash.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: And but, you know, when you sit back and you look at your experience of like something not going the way you thought it would or wanted it to or expected it to, you know, the learning experience there is I need to probably look at that recipe more closely.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: I need to like do what's been asked of me.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, there's there's always something to learn from every experience.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it can also be funny in the process because you made that meal, you gotta eat it.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: To go more off it not being real, like we're all human, right?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know how many times either the three of you have had to show up to a competition or a performance or a job when you're not well.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when you're not well, you're not gonna do your best anyway.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I remember competing with food poisoning, and luckily the song was like via Dela Rosa, so I didn't have to be all Broadway and explosive, and I could be sad, like I wanted to vomit because I did.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, but I'm not putting my best self out there.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're all human and we all experience things that, you know, don't allow us to give our hundred percent in that moment and in that time.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no way that you can go through 19 years of competitive dance and then professional world, you know, jobs and responsibilities without having an off day or without having a day where you're just not fully yourself.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's important.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really glad that you said that, Brittany, because I think it's it is important for dancers to know that.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And something that I often say a lot, and I've said it on on previous podcast episodes, when it comes to if it was your day and if it was your best performance or if it was your time to win, is that oftentimes it really comes down to who shows up that day at whatever this is.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't even have to be a dance competition, it could be about anything.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a job interview, it could be a sports game, whatever.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can relate it to so many different things, but at the end of the day, it really comes down to who showed up, and that is going to be detrimental to how you perform.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: What if you have an if you have an off day, you have an off day, but you could have had an off day and still been the best that was there.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: You never know.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Or you could have your best day and still not be the best of the best of the best and quote unquote lose.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: But something that we talked about, I can't remember what episode that was, where we were talking a lot about setting personal goals for yourself and and having your personal goals be the win, I think was just so crucial.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember what episode that was, Leslie?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say that might have been competitive mindset.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: With Rachel and um Tracy.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Tracy, yeah, in season two, which is another one I think would be really great for a lot of listeners to to go tune into if you haven't.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: But like those, that's a win, you know, regardless.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think that if dancers approach it from that mindset a little bit more, even if it's an off day, like you had food poisoning, but you got out there and you gave it your all and you succeeded.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's a win for you.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Even if you're not going to rank and place as good as you want to on that stage, but you succeeded in that.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And having those personal goals is really important for young dancers to remember.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like sometimes that gets lost a little bit.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think in going towards the personal goal setting, I think a lot of, I mean, plenty of things go into everybody's individual feeling about winning and losing and and how to do that or or how you react to those two different circumstances.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I think a lot of it, especially in the dance studio, those interpretations of those moments come from the teacher and how they're sort of trained to win or trained to lose.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so my question is in the education sense of things, like how do we as educators train and coach dancers to win and lose gracefully?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, I'm talking even to the nitty-gritty of, you know, at the end of class, I say, you know, Sally did really great with this combo.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: I want everybody to watch Sally.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm calling her out for a good thing.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: How is how how are we training those other kids who didn't get called out that day to react to that?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: Are we training them to cheer and to congratulate her?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: Or are we not doing anything and those kids are over there pouting?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, what's our responsibility to train them to?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: figure out how to react to these situations.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really glad you said that, Leslie, and brought that up.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: I have seen firsthand as an educator and uh a judge and as a teacher and choreographer, teachers and studio owners really harp on the placement and play in the award that is given at the end of the competition.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, I can't always say that I thought that was silly as a dancer because of course I cared about how I placed when I competed.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: But as a teacher and a mental health professional now, it really frustrates me to my core because you are giving such power to three people's opinions that you don't know.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know their qualifications.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know what you're walking into.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: This person may love tap, this person may hate lyrical, this person may have never seen musical theater before.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you have no idea what you're walking into.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you're asking your kids to base their achievement and how they feel about that achievement based on three people's opinions as opposed to the actual work that they are doing to the goals that they're actually setting.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I agree with you so much that it starts with the teachers.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: It starts with the teachers it then kind of moves into this phase of the parents and what's being communicated at home.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then the kid and how they're being empowered to think about this.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I have watched teachers be disappointed in their dancers after they come off stage and not speak to them until they go on stage again and do better.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I I just I just can't help but think what is that dancer thinking in the moment and how are you getting them in the mindset to go on stage and do their best again when they compete their next routine.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: As well as teachers overreacting to their placement and what they get and taking it as a personal insult as opposed to taking a step back and reflecting with the group of well what do you guys think went well and what didn't went well.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and that was always my goal as an as a dance educator was every competition we make a brand new goal.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: We make a brand new goal for what we're trying to achieve.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you know we may not care about the placement and we may care about really, you know, focusing on our execution as a team or our facial expressions or our emotional connection to the music.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that judge doesn't know what our goal is.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: They have to place you based on the competition and who else is in the competition and what's going on.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I just agree with you so much that as teachers we have a responsibility to not let our own personal feelings affect how we make kids feel about placement and about what we score or what we don't score.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think teaching winning or losing begins just like anything else in the dance studio.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: There are so many times that I that I'll teach my kids a combination and I'll do like a mock audition and do it exactly like a casting director be very stone faced you know have the kids come out do the combo whatever I pull out two kids that I would have picked for whatever who I think performed it the best.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: In that instance I I take a step back from just being like a a casting director and I talk to them as students and I just say you know what you guys take a look at these two look at what they're doing look at how they performed why do you think I chose them why why is this why are they being pulled out and featured right now and you can see that and you can learn that it's first of all it's not always you that's going to win.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: There's going to be a very small percentage that does win at the top just like in life just like people who get any type of job that's how it is and I think like I said like the way that we teach how to win and how to lose is in the dance studio.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: I teach my kids how to speak on the microphone if they're invited up to speak on the microphone at a dance competition.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: I teach them how to stand on stage.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just I think that we've done like etiquette episodes as well right you guys like how to how to act at a dance competition.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's part of winning and losing too when you lose do you you know are you pouting on stage it you know I would be so embarrassed if one of my kids like visibly looked mad or ungrateful on stage.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: I would just be mortified.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's something that I teach them as well.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if it's taught I'm not going to say teachers don't teach that because I know that there's great educators out there, but I think that that's that's not really part of the focus.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that yeah that's something that we need to incorporate in our education of our kids.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Marissa I think that's huge.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think that's huge and I'm I'm glad that you you do that I agree with you and and those are some of the things that I teach in the classroom as well.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: For the teachers who aren't necessarily that focused on that we can't expect the kids to act more mature in the situation than the adults around them.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you know the kids are going to pick up based on the behavior and the vibes and the body language and everything else of their teachers who they look up to and their parents who are mad because that studio got first overall instead of them or you know it the energy is a whole group village type of thing and it takes all of us being able to come together and say what are we what do we want our dancer to get out of this experience right like at the end of the day you just want a trophy that says number one like okay and then what?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: I understand that it's it's obviously as teachers and as studio owners you want to win because you want students to continue to stay at your studio but you know set the standard how are you acting at a dance competition in front of your parents in front of your kids like you know it's it's up to us to be the leaders the teachers and the choreographers and the studio owners it's up to us to be the leaders how do we react to losing how do we react to winning you know do you congratulate your other competitors?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: Do you stomp offstage?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean these are all like examples I rarely have seen somebody stomp offstage.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just using that as sort of an example but yeah I think it's I think it's sort of up to us as teachers, educators, choreographers to set the standard and to teach how to win and how to lose I think that the example that you were discussing about this little mock audition that you do Marissa in class like in the studio setting is a perfect example that can also be flipped around to talk about studio owners and choreographers and teachers learning from others as well.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: So like that example you said of like I asked the dancers why do you think that these two got called out what were they doing different?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Why did they stand out?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: The same can be applied to any studio owner that pushes back and fights back against the placement at a competition because you can learn from the other studios that ranked first or second or third if you're unhappy with that did you actually watch the dance what was so like and and truly a lot of times you know who's gonna win you watch a dance you know oh that was exceptional that that's probably getting up there.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you compare it to what you're presenting and you know I don't know if we can compete with that then you're and and you're also learning wow look at their stage presence wow they performed it or that choreography was like amazing.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh so clean you're learning from that experience you're what you're taking it in and saying all right this is motivation for me to get back into the studio with my dancers and make sure that next competition my dance is as clean as that first place dance that just won.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're going to be a teacher or a choreographer or studio owner that's going to complain about placements when you didn't even watch any of the other competition, how are we learning?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's another perfect example of making sure our dancers are also learning from others and the same type of thing can be applied to like a dance convention setting seeing who gets called out and why they get called out is it because they wore a cute outfit or is it because they're actually nailing the combo and why is it the same person that gets called out every class?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: What are they doing right?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: And how can I as a dancer apply some of those things to my dancing to make myself stand out if that's your goal or if you're just taking class and you have a good time that's great too.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it doesn't always have to be about the call out and the first place in in a dance class either.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think another thing to point out too is for anybody dancer, studio owner whoever, I don't think there's room to get to push back on a placement until you've listened to your critiques because we're not up there for our health talking for three minutes a dance for 17 hours a day.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's for you.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's for you to listen and say okay let me before I get angry let me come back let me take a day let me let me watch this video and listen to these critiques and then I'll understand why I got a 92 instead of a 97 and why that put me in seventh place instead of third place.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like it it it all makes sense.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: If you have good judges it all makes sense when you just have to take the step back and listen and learn like we've been saying you know that's it's the learning experience and what you what you want to get out of it that is hopefully not just a hunk of plastic and metal with a peelable label.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: They're peel and stick guys you peel them off and you put them on the trophy.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's what they are I also feel like there is a responsibility for dancers to ask for feedback.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I always encourage that with my dancers like you know let's have a conversation about what you felt on stage and what I saw as the observer because those are going to be two really different perspectives.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you know just like we get feedback from the judges like you were saying Leslie like you also deserve to get feedback from your support circle your friends who are in the front row cheering you on who you know knew that you were supposed to hit that triple and you turned it into a double or whatever, right?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know, ask for feedback and teachers be willing to provide it.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: I sometimes get discouraged with what the competition setting looks like.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you go on stage and you perform and then you go sit in a circle and eat like fast food with your friends for four hours and you just like Courtney was saying like you don't see the other dancers in your category.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: So how can you be mad that you placed what you placed?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: You have nothing to compare it to and you're not learning.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I just that's why I loved being at competition as a competitor.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: I loved seeing what other people were doing and being inspired by other people which is what inspired me to be a choreographer.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I could grow up and put my own choreography on dancers that felt good.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I wouldn't have had that drive if I didn't see what else was out there.
• 33:16
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• 33:19
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• 33:22
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• 33:47
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• 34:01
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• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's Impact 21 in all caps at checkout to receive an extra$10 off your entire order head to their website now at levelupdanceupplies.com to get prepped and ready for the competition season yeah and I don't really want to go into where I'm about to talk for too long but as you were saying all of that Brittany then it immediately started making me think of levels.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh I know always like always and I I just started thinking about you know yeah like I miss watching 25 age 15 lyrical dances in a row in a row and and that sounds you know that sounds dreadful when I when I say it like that like oh god who wants to watch 25 age 15 lyrical dances in a row but at the same time like that's your comparison like I I remember when I was growing up before levels existed like going to competition and watching everyone who was before me.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I wouldn't watch like the two before me like because I had to get mentally prepared watching my category you know and like this is my competition this was my motivation of oh my gosh like number five what killed it I better go out there and kill it better than number five and then or somebody after me like oh wow they really nailed that I don't know I don't know how mine's gonna hold up against theirs but I gave it as best that I can and watching my competition.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now with levels and then you know the mixture of how the the layout of schedules are, we don't really get to see it, you know, like it it really doesn't unless you're literally sitting there watching all day long, you aren't going to really see who who else you're up against, which I think is another valid point as to why if some people are listening, well I don't have time to sit there and watch everything because with the additional levels now it's not it here's all of your advanced and here's all of your intermediate all sporadic it seems like and with block scheduling all the things were going on.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway I kind of feel like levels have like come into the world to allow for more wins at the end of the day.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it does there's nothing else to it.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: That is why they exist it's to allow for more people to win.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and less people to lose more people to win which in return is good and bad I think because you know kind of like what how we kind of started off this conversation of if as many people aren't losing how is that affecting them and impacting their view of honestly life moving forward because like you said Marissa more people are going to lose than win that ratio right there that's reality unfortunately and I think that at times with the additional level it's kind of blurring that for the this generation which makes me a little bit nervous.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think to sort of piggyback on to that and I hope this sort of makes the same point that you're making is I competed a long time ago.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: We'll just leave it at that and before levels and like I said I went to a very competitive dance studio and I was very fortunate to go to a studio that that won a lot and it was almost expected of us to win a lot.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Do it was it great at the time yes did it prepare me for a professional career I don't know I think that there's a few times that I took when I did lose as in like go to an audition and didn't get the job I don't know if it prepared me the best that it could have because I was used to winning all the time when you're used to winning all the time and you lose it feels I don't know it it feels I mean devastating devastating but also like I don't know like you you blame the wrong person or you don't you don't put in the work where it needs to be put in you think about blaming this thing or that thing or you don't focus on yourself enough to be like you know what I didn't show up to that audition the best I could have I I didn't get warmed up enough.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't learn the combination fast enough I my quick study wasn't uh sharp enough whatever it is and you end up you end up blaming things that have nothing to do with your performance.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: If that makes sense Courtney to kind of piggyback onto the levels thing where everyone wins I just don't know if you're putting the focus where you need to be putting it to become a better dancer in the long run.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well and Marissa it sounds like you and I had very very different competitive experiences because I came from a studio before there was levels where it was like if we made it into the top 10 like holy celebration right and so like when I watch my dancers like get seventh overall and then like be disappointed I just want to be like what?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah like you know and I think you're right like it's the levels that allow for everybody to make it into the top 10 or top 50 or whatever the competition gives out but like I wasn't used to getting those awards all of the time and so like I wonder what first overall or second overall to you competing felt like compared to what it felt like to me.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And like that just shows you how different people are experiencing the competitive world right and it's even different now with all of the differences in competitions.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: Do you guys think levels are keeping kids at that level longer?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: So like if I'm at intermediate and I'm winning at an intermediate level feels real.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Why would I want to go to an advanced level?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then not not get in the top 10.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: Is it I think there's something to that that like I think the levels are it's like having a thumb on top of you.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you're unlike because like you said if you're getting so used to this you know I don't there's like a good comparison that I can't think of with like sugar anyway.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're you're just getting this dopamine hit, right?
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: Of like I'm winning, I'm winning why would why would I leave that?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in my happy place here.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm winning.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to go up here where I could possibly not win and feel terrible when I know I'm really good down here.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: And you know that's a that's human also like that's real.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's like biological body function.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like you want to stay where you feel good.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: But I think you're right and I, you know, again I sort of wonder what are we losing with that being the way things are like are we are we missing are our kids missing out on the drive to be better.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: And not all of them.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: I will say that there's there's probably plenty of individuals I would say that are out there that that are willing to get to like leave that happy place and push themselves forward, but that's not a group of people, you know what I mean?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like I would doubt that like a studio itself would make that choice if they didn't have to, if they weren't forced to by hours or training or whatever the rules are for the competition.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: But I would think there's probably some individual humans out there that would make that choice.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's like a mental state too like okay I've I've been competing in this one level for so long and I feel good and I feel comfortable.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay now I'm bumped up to the next level oh I'm anxious I'm I'm I I already feel defeated because I'm I'm in a higher level.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying that I I don't know I'm just I'm sort of questioning if levels are are the best way to make our kids grow.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well and that's where I would push it back on the teachers and the studio owners and the choreographers.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's your responsibility to know and build a relationship with your students where you get to know what motivates them and what kind of push and drive that they need right you know I get the value of someone who's been dancing for two years to not go against somebody who's been dancing for 11.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: I get the value in that absolutely you know but as a teacher you don't want that dancer to stay in the beginner level the whole time they're with you because otherwise they're not growing like why would you celebrate that right?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you as the teacher and the studio owner have to be able to make that decision of this child is ready for an additional push with my support with my with my encouragement and and we will we will lose we're gonna go to the next level and we are going to lose but there's lessons and there's value in that thousand percent agree with you Brittany I think that there needs to be more of that push happening more often because I think that a lot of a lot of studios and teachers are are really kind of getting in that same mentality of it's a safe win here.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: And they they want the win too but at the end of the day I think that we have to like take a step back and look at like how is that helping our dancers if it's just always going to be a win.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: And almost kind of like what you were saying Marissa looking back on my years as a competitive dancer I too came from a studio that was known for usually being at the top but boy can I tell you that we were so excited when we got to compete again against other studios at the same level as us because it actually created competition.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: What's the fun in just winning I mean when you just go and win who cares that that's no fun I mean some people might think that's great and good for you.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: I loved it when I had tough competition it pushed me harder it made me dance better.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: It gave me a goal and what a great achievement When you reach that goal, when you're like, oh wow, that dancer was exceptional.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I cannot believe I got second place over them at this event.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, wow, what an achievement.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or even in the sense of having a very large category with a lot of contestants with a lot more.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say there's like a hundred dancers in the teen solos, and you got first or second out of a hundred.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like what you were saying, Brittany.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you got seventh place out of a hundred, that's amazing compared to not saying that this isn't as amazing, but in the ratio game, it's getting seventh out of a hundred is way better than getting seventh out of twenty.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And like because we're restricting it by the size of the competition with the levels, then it's like, you know, creating a smaller pool of people to compete against.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: So again, then more winners.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I don't know.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that the mentality has shifted as far as how we're approaching competitive dance from when we were growing up.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think I agree, Marissa, I think it could be hindering dancers from advancing and continuing that push to get better and not staying as safe.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: I am not saying levels are bad.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: I am not saying competitions that have level, how they divvy it up is bad.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just questioning how, you know, how how are we progressing?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: How it are we progressing slower?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, are we growing slower by doing this?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: It I'm just questioning it as a rhetorical question.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and it's for some reason, Courtney, when you were talking about like when you were a dancer growing up being able to compete against other studios of the same level and you were so excited for that to happen.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: For some reason in my head, I started thinking about like, what if like sports teams like it's not fun to watch a sports team compete or play a game against somebody who's just not the same level, you know, like for whatever reason I was home.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: I watched the World Series this year because I was home in Georgia, go Braves.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: And the Braves versus the Astros, those teams are like high, high, high level.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: They were both excellent.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the reason the game was interesting.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: If you put the Braves against some minor league team who hasn't won a game in 10 years, but somehow are still playing baseball, that is not a fun, exciting, interesting thing to even watch or probably be a part of because you just know what's going to happen.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't like it's gotta be the same in sporting.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm not a sports person, but like, so I think speaking to sort of maybe our audience who maybe we have a dance dad listening who like that comparison was helpful for you, but like I can't, I just can't.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's no, it's a it's a great point, Leslie.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: There's different levels of football and college, you know, college football sports.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: It is not fun to watch a really elite team and then somebody who's, you know, not as elite, maybe, you know, the minor leagues, whatever.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's there's no there's no competition in it.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: Unless you were saying, Yes.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: And like you were saying, Courtney, the best thing is when you're competing against somebody at your own level and winning against somebody at your own level.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, and I'm gonna bring this up again because I can.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: We I we had a comment recently about an episode from a listener sort of expressing disappointment that our guests sounded like they were elite.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: They were elitist.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_03: They only wanted to attend conventions with competitions with people that were on their level.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, they did, they do.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: They did.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_03: Every single studio that we've interviewed this season is an elite-level studio who wants to and deserves to compete against people that are at their level.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not a bash on anybody else at another level because it's not.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's the same thing.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, Marissa and I were saying about sports teams.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm not watching the NFL play a game against a high school football team.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's it's not fair.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't make any sense.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know what's gonna happen, you know, before you can even do it.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I just want to reiterate that none of us have ever said people competing at a lower level are bad, negative, don't deserve to be there.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: No, none of that's true.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's just that there are levels of everything in life.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: There's elite things, and there are not elite things, and they just they live in separate worlds, and that's all fine.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: And with that, I think that like how we're discussing this, it's important to say that like, yes, if there are levels that you should be uh competing against who is true to your level, so everyone, please just place your dances in the proper level where they belong at the end of the day.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: People can win deservingly.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: So people can win.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly right.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because we all know those level discussions 24-7.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is the perfect example of if we just create this competition event to be a fair event from across the board, then everyone will be getting that comp that competition that they all are looking for that matches the level of training instead of cheating for a win, which is a perfect example of what not to do.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about winning versus losing.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, come on, you're you're already setting yourself up to like cheat a win.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's not good sportsmanship.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's not that's and that studio owner is making that choice.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: So again, starts from the top, goes right back to what Britney was saying.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Brittany, I feel like you had something that you wanted to chime in and say.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: You totally nailed it.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think just like Leslie said, right, like the elite dancers want to compete against elite dancers.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: It it goes the same way.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: The the level one beginner levels want to compete against the level one beginner levels, right?
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's why they put their dancers in that level because they don't want them going up against people who obviously have more technical training and experience.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it goes to everything you were just saying, Courtney.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: So the we talked about for a brief second about how to lose gracefully.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think it's important to talk about how to win gracefully because I feel like that if you're the star at the studio, you all know who I'm talking about.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's probably one at every studio, and you and everyone knows that this dancer is always gonna be, even if it's like a studio win, like this dancer's gonna be top at the studio for her solo, or this dancer's always gonna have the feature, or this dancer's always in the front center, and those are like wins.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe it's filling this dancer's head, and maybe it's filling mom's head too.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like my dancer is the best, she's so great, and then she loses.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, how is that going?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: How is she going to handle that?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Which I've seen perfect example, like real life example of studio kids who were the stars transition into real world and cannot handle the rejection at all.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: And like and like very sadly, seriously cannot handle it.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like, oh, maybe this isn't for me anymore.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a personal breakdown of who they are because it's just so foreign to them.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it's important for those dancers to lose sometimes in these competitive settings.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that honestly, they may be the best at the studio, but when they get to a competition that is actually they're competing against someone at their proper level, they might not win.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm curious to to know like how they handle it.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: Are they graceful?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: Are and like you said, Marissa, I think it's extremely important how dancers handle themselves on stage.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: All eyes are on you.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: You need to turn it on when you're on stage no matter what.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you need to cry about it, wait till you get to the car.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: But do not show any type of reaction in a negative way with a frown on your face and a and and just, you know, looking sad and snooty like you're upset about your ranking.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen it far too often.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it is, like you said, Marissa, you said you'd be so not okay with that as a studio owner.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, like, where are they learning that?
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think that studios need to be teaching dancers to shake hands with the person next to them and say congratulations and clap for every single dancer that's on stage and go up to the person that did one win first place and congratulate them and say, Congratulations, you deserved this.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: I saw your soul, it was beautiful.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's what I want to see more of, honestly, on the competitive stage.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I see a lot of pouty faces and walking off stage upset, and even maybe going to mom and mom's upset, and that's not that's another thing.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: I had a dance coach tell me once that it's easy to get to the top, it's hard to stay on the top.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: And even though we know that it's not easy to get to the top, it's a lot of really hard work.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: But that was so good for me to hear because we we did get that first place and we worked our butts off to get that first place.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: But then we had to work even harder to maintain that first place at the next competition.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: And to go off what you were saying, Courtney, I always remind my dancers that the competitive dance world is so tricky because it's not like any other sport.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: I remember talking to a high school mentor of mine who was a baseball and a basketball coach who was like, So you're going to nationals this summer.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, So you're gonna be like the best in the nation.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, no, because like I'm going to one nationals, but there's like six nationals in St.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Louis in June.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, So, like, wait, you're not the best?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, I don't get it.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah, I know you don't, right?
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: So like neither do I think there is no avenue for us to really call ourselves the best because you've only competed against what you were allowed to compete against.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you have no idea what else is out there, especially if your exposure is limited.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, yes, Courtney, just like you said, you may be the best in your studio.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: You may be the best at the competition this weekend.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: But guess what?
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: There were 80 other competitions going on in the United States this weekend.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Can you really say that you were the best out of all 80?
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: How do we even know?
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I we have to be able to prepare people that this is not how things are gonna continue to go.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and if you if you are dancing for that award, I always take my dancers aside and say, What why are we doing this?
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: Are we doing this for a trophy?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can do a lot of things for a trophy.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like we could find so many other things.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: You could play the keyboard, you could, you know, break some Guinness World record of how many hopscotches you do.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like we could do a lot of things for a trophy.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're up there on stage pouting as a result, this isn't what this is supposed to be.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's not enjoyable.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then we're not taking lessons and we're not learning and we're not growing.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't mean that you can't feel hurt.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think part of losing gracefully or even winning gracefully is being able to navigate some of those really hard, difficult emotions and feelings that we have, and being able to take it on the chin and say, you know what, this did hurt.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did work really hard and I thought I did deserve that recognition.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: But let me take a step back and get some feedback and learn from other people and go back to the studio and be creative with my choreographer and figure out what we can do different.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_02: And using that example of like there's 80 competitions going on this weekend, it's who showed up.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you said, Courtney, it's who showed up, it's who's there, it's who you're against.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's really important for studio owners to pick competitions that have that you know have a range of talent.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, it's no secret there are some competitions that are definitely gonna attract like a higher elite crop of dancers.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's some other competitions that are maybe smaller, that are gonna have smaller studios there.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm fortunate enough to work at two studios that do that.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: They they have a huge range of competitions that they choose to attend because it is your choice at the end of the day, as the studio owner, to pick which competition you're you go to.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what sets sort of our industry apart from other sports is that there's a choice to go to different competitions.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not, oh, okay, this is the this is the World Series.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the one thing of baseball that that tells you if you're the best or like the Olympics, right?
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: So at the end of the day, it's your choice.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's I think it's important for studio owners to have a variety of different types of dance competitions and conventions that that will allow your students to win and lose.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_03: I wanna take a minute and talk about like examples of this is like really niche because I have a story to go along with it, but I'm sure you guys also have other examples.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_03: But like how how a loser can be influenced by a winner.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, and like how we can translate that into our students' lives.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: So when I was still auditioning, and I remember this to this day, this was probably at least six or seven years ago, in the room.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: It was an invited call for elf, the elf the musical tour.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_03: I am perfect for elf.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: I never booked elf, but we were doing this combination.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_03: It was so fun and had such a good time.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought I did a great job.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, God, I'm so gonna get called back.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_03: I did not get called back.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_03: But this girl that I had never met before looked, she had gotten called back.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_03: But we were like, they took a minute, we went into the room, changed shoes.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: I was leaving.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: She was about to go back in the room, and I'd never seen this girl before in my life.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: And she came up to me and she said, I can't believe they didn't call you back.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: You looked so great in there.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: She was like, I would have called you back.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, that is the nicest thing anybody has ever said.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_03: And in the in that moment of me losing, somebody who won made me feel like a winner.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_03: And like Maureen Duke, I will never forget you.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_03: She's on tour right now with American in Paris.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_03: But like, that is the kind of winner that we need.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's how the kind of winner that we want to train.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_03: That is the kind of student that I want to have go up on stage and and tell somebody else that they did a good job.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: She didn't need any congratulations for getting called back.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_03: She wanted to say good job to me because I didn't get called back.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do you guys have stories like that?
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think those are like the most inspirational stories to hear when thinking about like how to make a lose a win.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: And before you give your stories, I want to say that that example is also the type of person that people want to work with.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: That people not that, not that the casting director or the choreographer saw that interaction and saw that communication, but that you can tell that's a good-hearted person that's going to be a team player on the job and isn't going to start drama or isn't going to be, you know, the snooty one in the corner that knows everything.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's, I think that you you can tell you can see genuine people and see even in something as simple as an audition or even something as simple as a solo routine at competition, you can tell people like from how they just get through life and and perform on stage.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: We get to know you.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's important that this world is small.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: And at a studio I worked at before, I was the chapter sponsor of National Honor Society there at the studio.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so we kind of put together this project where each person was given a stack of these cards and they had to watch and watch the competition and watch people that were on stage and find people that inspired them and write down what it was that they were inspired by and then go give it to that person when they got off stage.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a mom come up to me from another studio who she had been pointed in my direction, knowing that I was the chapter sponsor and I was the one that was kind of facilitating this whole project.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: And she came up to me, her daughter was seven, and she told me that her daughter this weekend was having a really negative competition experience.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: And her daughter wanted to quit, like wanted to quit dance.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the kids that I worked with recognized her daughter on stage and gave her one of these cards and told her that she stood out to her.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: And her mom said that it just completely changed her train of thought and that quitting was no longer an option because there was someone out there who saw how much she loved doing this and that that was enough for her.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she was seven.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so just, and we weren't even winners at that point.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: The competition had just started, right?
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, and and I think it's just as simple as just like both of you have said, all of us have said, like, tell people what you notice in them, not on Instagram through a typing interaction.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: Tell have a face-to-face conversation with somebody about what they did that stood out to you and why, how you notice like what they're doing on stage and why it impacted you.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because we all like to hear nice things, right?
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we all deserve to hear nice things.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like that goes a really long way.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just like you said, Leslie, like what she said to you is gonna stay with you forever.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I bet that interaction that my kid had with that seven-year-old is gonna stay with her forever.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: And these are the kinds of experiences that make all of this worth it, right?
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I have any specific examples of I sort of do.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_02: There was one audition I went to years ago, and sometimes auditions do this, some most of the time they don't.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: But I had auditioned for a show and they made a cut.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: I did not get asked to I did not get a call back, but they handed back your headshot and resume.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: They don't always do that.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_03: They don't, that's nice.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, because headshots are expensive to print them and have them done um professionally.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember getting my headshot resume back and seeing that a casting director wrote on my resume leading lady come back.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: As if like he thought like I was good enough to be a leading lady and not in the ensemble.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was so like, oh my god, like I don't know, little things like that, because I know that casting directors they see a lot of dancers.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_02: And for somebody to just write a quick note like that, I know that's silly, but like it actually made me feel good about getting cut.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: Made me feel or better, I should say.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: It made me feel better about being cut, and that even though maybe I didn't book this job, that somebody thought that I was a leading lady and that definitely come back again or whatever, it just felt good.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_02: Also, another instance, this is more current, as a teacher, I've seen one of my students get berated by their parents off stage, which was really hard to watch.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it was just a and and that's kind of stuff I I don't I don't get involved in because it's the parent and their kid, and I don't think it's my place.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: But however, at the studio later, you know, that week, I did mention how proud I was of the student, how I thought that they did good.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what the parent was berating the kid about.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_02: It was something about the performance of the student, which I didn't agree with.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_02: But it was just, it was, I hope that I was able to just give that kid a little bit of a smile and and lift their spirit a little bit about their performance because that was a that was an ugly situation too.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope I never see anything like that again.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: But that does exist, and I think as a teacher, it's it's probably a good idea to just address it with the student and let them know how proud you are of them, how much they've grown, things like that.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes they're not getting that kind of support from from their parents.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I know we talked about earlier about how it's like we have this culture where parents and students don't want to come back to a studio if they're not winning.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: But as a mental health therapist, working with kids so much, like kids want a supportive, unconditional, loving relationship.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're focusing as a teacher and a choreography or a choreographer and a studio owner on your relationship with that child, more than likely they're gonna come back because it's the relationship that they want that they want.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: And winning is just a really awesome consequence to that.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the studios that do well and do win have really good relationships with their faculty and their students.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's something so important to focus on as a competitive teacher.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: And something that kind of while all of you were talking about these really nice words that people have gifted to students or you throughout your career, or even the example you said, Brittany, I think that it was just like triggering special awards in my head as you guys were saying that.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that a lot of people think of special awards as like the fluff awards that don't mean anything and that, you know, oh, well, I'm not gonna get first place, so I'm just gonna get a special award.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I really do think that special awards are special.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: You did something that made like you stood out in in a different way.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: Who cares if your technique wasn't the best if and and we're giving you an, you know, a performance award instead?
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: It shouldn't be an it's not an insult, it's not fluff.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's a compliment.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: That is something that someone noticed about you that stood out against others.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you're being recognized for that.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what's so special about special awards.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to tell everybody out there that they're not the fluff awards, that they're being given out for a real reason, and you're being recognized for something that you excelled at.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a great thing.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: We need to hear that more often, honestly.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know about you guys as adjudicators, but for me, like I we put a lot of energy and effort into our special awards.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are really hard to to select, right?
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you could you could be watching 500 dances and get to select three.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's a big deal, right?
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like to be one chosen out of that many, right?
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and I couldn't agree more, Courtney.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like specialty awards are some of my favorite things to award.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_03: I would, I guess I think a lot of judges feel that way, just because they are.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_03: They're special and it's, you know, and for me, they're hard to find because I am looking for that special thing.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so when you get a special award, it means I have looked that somebody's asked me for three special awards as a judge, and I'm like looking down the sheet, I'm like, oh gosh, oh gosh, oh yeah, that girl.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's a big deal for me to remember you for whatever it is out of the 500 dances, you know.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that everybody deserves a special because not everybody stands out that way.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_03: So if you got one, like truly, we're telling you you're special.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a win.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a win.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, y'all, we we talked about a lot of different scenarios, different approaches, different things today in our winning versus losing.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_03: Versus losing.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're gonna have to stick with that.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: Winning versus losing.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope this was helpful.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I definitely think that there's a lot of great advice to head into the competition season with, maybe gained a new perspective of how you're going to approach some of your events this season.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much, Brittany and Marissa, for chatting this topic with us this evening over here on the podcast.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd love for you to lead us out with any final thoughts on winning versus losing, whether you want to talk to the teachers, choreographers, parents, dancers themselves.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think that they're stock in both.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think that they're obviously it feels so good to win.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it feels kind of lousy to lose, but you can learn from both of those things and grow from both of those things.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, don't be afraid to to feel the elation and feel the high of winning, and don't be afraid to feel sad if you lose.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: But don't cry on stage, save it for the car ride.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree completely.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to remember your intention of why you do this, not just dancers, but educators also.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not you're not there for you, you're there for the kids.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the kids, you're there because this is something that you love to do.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as this stops feeling like love and joy and fulfillment, then it's time to do something different.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to continue to nurture that intention.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Marissa couldn't have said it any better.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, feel the highs, feel those challenging feelings that are hard to sit through, but go to your support system and talk through how to do better and find out what motivates you and keep going because there is a place for you in the dance world, and you just gotta figure out where it is and figure out how to find it and allow people to support you along that journey.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're not alone, like we're all in this together.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode all about winning versus losing.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to follow our special guest, IDA Doug Dis on social media.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: You can find Marissa at Marissa Stanic Dance and Brittany at Fien underscore Britney.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_03: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_03: And be sure to leave us a review on both Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to check out IDA affiliated competition, DECA Dance Competition.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_01: DECA Dance strives for excellence in the world of dance competitions.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're committed to providing the most professional experience for a wide range of competitors in a safe and fair environment, ensuring that each Decca event provides high levels of education and the opportunity for growth in every dancer.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_01: With four specialized judges, a unique custom-built scoring system, live critiques for soloists, amazing awards, and so much more, you do not want to miss their awesome events.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Contact Decca Dance Competition now to learn more about group discounts for their upcoming convention dates, or to get more information on their 100% customizable in the studio experience.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_01: With tour dates up and down the East Coast in their 2022 season, I hope you will come experience the Decca difference.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Visit their website now at Deccadance Competition.com to learn more.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_03: Season three continues next week with the February edition of QA with Courtney Live and will be followed by episodes on developing a ballet program for competitive studios and student choreography.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_03: Stay tuned for new episodes every Thursday.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for continuing to tune in to season three of Making an Impact.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next week.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Until then, keep dancing.