Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Sinners with Costume Designer, Ruth E. Carter

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Sinners with Costume Designer, Ruth E. Carter · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:06
Hello and welcome to the Art of Costume podcast.
0:08
I am your host, Spencer Williams, and thank you so much
0:11
for joining me for another special bonus episode.
0:15
I am so excited for today's episode because we are talking
0:19
about the new film Sinners directed by Ryan Coogler.
0:24
I'm absolutely obsessed with this film, just as you are.
0:27
I'm sure I've seen it twice. I'm excited for it to be re
0:30
released on IMAX again because I'm going to see it again
0:34
because I love it that much. It has everything I love.
0:37
It's a period film with some incredible themes, perfect
0:42
storytelling with vampires and music too.
0:45
So it's right up my alley in every sense of the word.
0:49
But why I'm most excited about of all is talking about the
0:54
costumes of sinners designed by 1 Ruth E Carter.
0:58
And I am beyond excited to say that today we are going to be
1:02
joined by costume designer Ruth E Carter.
1:05
The same Ruth E Carter that has won two Academy Awards for her
1:09
work on Black Panther and Black Panther, Wakanda Forever, but
1:13
has also done so many incredible films and Do the Right Thing,
1:17
Malcolm X, Roots, Baps, Selma, we could go on and on.
1:23
All the incredible work that Ruth has done.
1:25
And honestly, Ruth has been someone that I've been dreaming
1:29
to interview, talk with. I've I've met her before in
1:33
passing, but I've never been able to have that one-on-one
1:35
time. So today's the day.
1:37
I'm very excited. We had a great conversation
1:40
talking about all the different characters, the vampires, the
1:44
blood, the music, that dream sequence that is so stuck in our
1:48
heads. It was one of my favorite
1:51
conversations I think we've ever had on this podcast and I hope
1:55
that you all enjoy it. So right after this break, we're
1:58
going to get into that conversation with costume
2:01
designer Ruth E Carter. Please enjoy.
2:09
Hi, I'm Dan who does all the magic behind the scenes.
2:12
I wanted to say thank you. And if you want to support the
2:14
show even farther, go to tpublic.com/user slash the Art
2:21
of Costume where you can buy a couple variations of our logo on
2:25
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2:30
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2:33
leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast.
2:36
Now back to the show. I am beyond excited to finally
2:45
welcome to the Art of Costume podcast, two time Academy Award
2:48
winner, costume designer Ruthie Carter.
2:51
Hey Ruth, it's so good to finally see you.
2:53
Hey, thanks for having me. Good to see you again, Spencer.
2:57
I'm so excited. I've seen Sinners twice now, and
3:01
I'm so glad that this is a film I get to talk to you about
3:03
because there's just so much to get into, so much history, so
3:07
much research, and vampires, which is totally my thing.
3:10
So let's get into it. But first, let's of course chat
3:17
about the collaboration between you and 1 Orion Coogler.
3:20
Obviously this is not your first film together, nor your second,
3:24
so obviously something between the two of you just works
3:27
because it really comes through in Sinners.
3:30
So what is it about you and Ryan that just work so seamlessly
3:33
between costumes and the direction of the film?
3:37
Well, Ryan is a brilliant director, writer.
3:41
He also leaves space for all of us to create.
3:47
You get his script and it resonates with you.
3:52
It's enjoyable to go through the process of of creative talk and
3:59
throwing the ball back and forth about the possibilities.
4:04
He sometimes has some specific ideas, like we have Pappa Tito
4:09
in the film, we have Smoke and Stack in red and blue, and those
4:15
are some of the specific things that he brings up when we have
4:20
our creative conversations. But he doesn't tell you exactly
4:25
how to do it. He doesn't really try to do your
4:29
job. And he leaves that space for you
4:32
to present some things for to him.
4:35
And that's what makes it really nice to work with Ryan because
4:38
he's open and even if you're stuck, you can talk to him and
4:42
he tries to help you through some, you know, creative
4:46
challenges. Yeah, just giving you that
4:48
little. Yeah, yeah, he brings.
4:50
You in his office, you know, you drink a cup of coffee, loves
4:56
coffee. So it's it's a nice experience
4:59
working together. And after doing of course 2
5:03
Black Panther films with him, I feel like you must have been
5:05
ready to hit the ground running once you guys got into sinners.
5:09
Well, we had to hit the ground running because we had a very
5:12
short prep and a very short window to shoot the film in.
5:16
So you're constantly kind of devising your plan as you're
5:22
looking at the script and seeing these moments that you know will
5:26
have to be multiplied because it's blood and it's a period
5:31
piece. So you have to be very careful
5:33
about what you have rentals or you know, you're using a lot of
5:37
a lot of pieces that you're replicating.
5:44
So the majority of that film was built.
5:49
Wow. And because you can't get blood
5:52
on rentals, once you do that, you own it and you own it for a
5:57
high price. So we took our prototypes and
6:01
we, the people in the Juke joints that went out and then
6:06
ended up, you know, with blood on them as vampires.
6:10
All that stuff was built. We built 90% of that, that film.
6:15
I mean, there were things that were purchased like overalls and
6:18
stuff. And yeah, Sammy's overalls and
6:22
his shirt in the very beginning. But he quickly comes out of that
6:26
and goes into his like Juke joint looking all of that was
6:30
made. All the all the patches were
6:33
added, you know nothing was rented.
6:36
Right. That certainly is a lot of blood
6:39
in this, and we'll come back to that toward the end.
6:42
So Centers is set in Mississippi in 1932.
6:46
And you've said in the production notes that in design
6:48
centers you want it to feel like the Old South, which can come
6:52
down to textures and colors. So could you tell us a little
6:56
bit about what your research and preparation process?
6:58
He's kind of touched on a little bit, but getting into the 1930s
7:02
of Mississippi, what did your process look like getting into
7:04
that research? Well, the Old South, southern
7:08
Mississippi Delta, the South in general has its own look and
7:13
feel, especially in 1931 when you did have large cotton
7:20
plantations and sharecroppers and people who work the land.
7:24
And so there's this. It's a really special time.
7:29
The South is always a special place that has its own feel
7:32
still to today, but we looked through a lot of photo research.
7:39
There were photographers that that travelled through the South
7:42
in the early 30s, late 20s in Dora.
7:45
Welty's was one of them. And we just kind of got into the
7:50
images of the Blues players, all the old Blues, Blues men that,
7:57
you know, were adorned dressed in their 2 tone shoes and their
8:01
vests and their their suspenders.
8:04
And it was really a joy to think that we we were making a movie
8:08
about the Blues as well as about vampires.
8:13
But I focused on I focused on the research.
8:17
I thought it was more like an American story.
8:19
It was I used to my palette was like red, white and blue and and
8:25
the only two real characters that are outside of that color
8:30
palette is Sammy with his gold vest and his brown coat and
8:34
Grace with her yellow. She's introduced in a yellow
8:37
top. So but for post part, there's a
8:40
lot of workwear and a lot of blue denim and indigo and hate
8:44
blue. And we researched all of that,
8:47
the voodoo, the hoodoo, the Blues players, the Mississippi
8:51
Delta. I mean, it was a time when
8:53
people were disenfranchised and they had nothing.
8:57
But they made this beautiful music out of, you know, just
9:01
wanting to rejoice and wanting to, you know, have some time of,
9:05
of, of pleasure. Yeah, it's it's perfect person
9:11
for this job. It was just so beautiful to see
9:13
and seeing all the variety in these me.
9:16
Perfect person. Oh, thank you.
9:18
Well. Speaking of, you know, the
9:24
perfect person for the job, You quite famously dressed Michael B
9:26
Jordan as Killmonger and Black Panther.
9:29
So there's a relationship there. And now you've worked with him
9:32
as both Smoke and Stack incentives.
9:35
You're kind of working with two characters here.
9:37
Well, you are working with two characters, so I'm guessing
9:40
there's a trust there. So can you tell us about that
9:43
collaboration between the two of you and defining these
9:45
characters? You mentioned Ryan said red and
9:48
blue, So where do you go from? There And you know, it was very
9:51
stressful to think, you know, how am I going to figure out the
9:54
red side? Blue side could be workwear and
9:57
all those, you know, great indigo colors of the of the old
10:02
South. But the red was a challenge.
10:05
And you know, I found this beautiful brown wool that was
10:11
leaning on the red side and it had a red pinstripe in it.
10:15
And I flew to LA to do some last minute shopping and I just
10:20
happened to go into a hat shop and there was that Red Hat and
10:25
and the blue denim cap was there too.
10:29
I just was, you know, determined to get those two points because
10:34
that was going to finish up, you know, the red, it was going to
10:39
solidify like how they could look that way in red blue.
10:46
So then, you know, it was like from that point, just pulling
10:52
together shirts, you know, the pink shirt that he wears, the
10:56
blue shirt that's Smoke wears and kind of separating them in
11:00
the in the fitting room. So when we travel through all of
11:05
the options for smoke, we talked about, you know, he has this
11:10
holster he wears under his jacket.
11:12
And so we don't want it to look bulky.
11:15
We have to conceal like weapons and that smoke would be less
11:21
conscious about, you know, having all the accoutrements
11:24
like stack wood. So as we as we firmed up our
11:28
ideas for Smoke, we went on to the other side of the fitting
11:32
room and we started addressing his stack.
11:35
And right away, Michaels, like kind of his demeanor changed.
11:40
Yeah, more just a little bit more swagger.
11:45
And that's when Ryan Coogler and Zinzi, they walked into the
11:49
fitting and Ryan saw the hat and he was just to the moon.
11:54
I mean, he talked. People came down from the office
11:56
and said, what's going on? Ryan's upstairs just talking
12:00
about this Red Hat. And I really felt like I hit a
12:04
home run having, you know, flown from New Orleans to LA to
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actually find the hat. I was determined to find the,
12:12
the, the right character hat for him.
12:14
And we did so that was really gratifying that he came into the
12:19
fitting as Michael was dressed in the suit we see him in in the
12:23
movie and and you know, we all got excited.
12:27
So his his suit is cut, you know, from 1920s pattern
12:32
menswear has the diagonal pockets.
12:35
It has three small buttons, button closure.
12:39
You know, it's really has some more detail and then a smoke
12:43
suit is kind of like a patch pocket safari style houndstooth.
12:49
You know he's a working man. Yeah, actress Wumi Masaku, who
12:53
plays Annie, of course. She said in the notes that she
12:56
actually noticed that the costumes gave Michael a
12:58
different energy, switching between the two characters
13:01
because of the costumes. And I just think that really
13:03
speaks to how important costume design is to the storytelling
13:07
when you're able to put on that suit.
13:10
Yeah. I mean, just think of yourself,
13:12
you know, the days you want to feel comfy at you put on sweats,
13:15
but the days you want to feel like maybe a little more in
13:19
charge, you might put on a jacket.
13:21
I mean, clothes do communicate your presentation.
13:25
So, yeah, he had to change out many times during the course of
13:30
this shooting and many times in one day even.
13:33
So, you know, and Smoke's clothes fit him a little looser,
13:38
too. And so I might, I, I would
13:40
assume that for Michael, the feeling of it was much
13:44
different. So for everyone who's listening
13:47
and hasn't seen the film, maybe spoiler warning, skip forward
13:50
one minute. But my one of my favorite
13:52
moments is when Stack puts on that vest after, you know,
13:56
things have gone down at the Juke.
13:57
Yeah, he picks it up and it instantly turns into like a
14:00
really cool badass, a vampire. I just was.
14:04
That was the conscious decision behind that, you know.
14:08
That was very intentional, actually.
14:12
Michael called me to the makeup trailer when he was getting
14:15
ready and he was like, why don't we as Stack just have the vest
14:20
on? And I and I and we kind of had
14:23
to reverse engineer how we would get out of his clothes and how
14:28
he would put that vest on. Yes, have the vest.
14:32
So he figured it out. And every time I see him put
14:36
that vest on and look through the hole in the door, I go, yes,
14:40
like how you work together with actors that have an intention
14:44
for their their wardrobe. So we first engineered it and
14:48
figured it out. But yeah, I love that one too.
14:52
Yeah, I audibly gasped when he put on that vest.
14:54
He took a moment before he broke down the door too.
14:57
Well, you saw that. That's the first time I got
14:59
asked this question. Well, Speaking of how he got out
15:03
of his clothes, let's talk about Hailee Steinfeld who was quoted
15:07
as saying. Talking with Ruth Carter was one
15:10
of my favorite parts of pre production.
15:12
Going into Ruth's office in that fitting room and seeing the
15:15
world on the walls was just the most amazing thing ever.
15:18
So her character Mary is very popular.
15:22
If people love this character, can you speak to Mary's
15:25
character and how you and Haley landed on that dress that she
15:28
wears to the Juke joint, which I just think is so stunning.
15:31
And of course, it even looks even better covered in blood.
15:34
Oh, yeah, and it was intentional, you know?
15:37
She appears at the train station in this knit pink and it's
15:43
almost like she's like a ghost from his past.
15:45
And so the idea was, you know, that red, white and blue
15:49
palette. And so the pink was like
15:52
perfect, perfect color for her character as well As for the,
15:57
you know, the silk that she wears when she comes to the Juke
16:00
joint, You know, it's a different thigh or fabric than
16:03
what anybody else has on. And it, you know, looks
16:06
luxurious and it looks like she's coming from outside.
16:11
It's also kind of a nude pink so that when you see the dress
16:16
later on with all the blood all over it, spoiler alert, you
16:21
know, it almost disappears. But it's also very kind of
16:25
translucent. You can see.
16:27
We intentionally wanted to see like the her Garter and make it
16:31
sexy and and boring. But we had to make this film so
16:36
rapidly we couldn't put on anything that we didn't have
16:41
multiple so on. So her look for the Juke joint,
16:44
I think we made about 20 of those dresses because we shot so
16:49
out of order. So there were days where, you
16:52
know, she got shot, she got shot and you had bullet holes through
16:57
the front and the back. And then there were days when
16:59
she was just biting stack and she just had the blood on her
17:04
face and a little on her dress. There was so many different
17:08
levels of blood for her character, it was crazy.
17:13
I have a video of our truck which looks like a truck full of
17:19
like plastic wrap. Shout out to your crew and
17:24
having to take care of all that continuity too, because.
17:28
That's a pain, yeah. And Sammy was shot out of order,
17:31
too. And I just hit seamless when you
17:34
see the film, but wow. Just like team, do you mind if
17:38
we shoot them first and do everything after?
17:41
Yeah, I wish we could have shot that in order.
17:43
It's impossible. We had rain cover and all that
17:46
stuff. Man, well, it worked out.
17:49
Now you can't tell, but I guess there's just so much blood,
17:51
you'll never know. Let's talk about Annie.
17:54
She's one of my favorite characters.
17:56
She carries so much power and spirituality in her costumes and
18:00
that's, you know, it's beautifully reflected in her
18:01
costumes. That's fascinated by the details
18:04
and the colors, the beads and the feathers, just a lot of
18:07
textiles and like elements throughout her costume.
18:11
So can you talk about what you wove into her costume and the
18:14
cultural and spiritual references we might see if you
18:17
watch it a second time? Yes, well, we looked at all
18:22
those characters, fictitious and supposedly real of women
18:29
throughout the ages who are, who do, who practice, who do, and we
18:35
saw there were all of these layers.
18:37
There's, you know, shawls were used and always like trinkity
18:41
things. So with Annie, she came in
18:45
several times because I, I, I needed to nail it.
18:49
I needed to like feel that her look was her own, different from
18:54
all of these kind of spiritual people who have been in films
18:58
before. And so we gave her these, these
19:02
beads around her neck. And, you know, in in my
19:07
community and in the black community, in the Latino
19:10
community, you know, beads are sometimes blessed and people
19:13
wear them under their shirts. And so those beads were like
19:18
protective beads, blessed beads, spiritual beads.
19:22
And so that's why they're kind of clustered and kind of worn
19:25
inside. And when we first meet her,
19:30
she's working in her her place where she sells different things
19:36
to the community. She's that spiritual leader in
19:39
the community. So we really wanted her to have
19:43
a mojo bag of her own, a little pouch where she would carry
19:48
things to cut roots with. And she had a chatelaine with a
19:53
little bottle, like maybe she carried some healing oils.
19:57
And and then when we get to the Duke and she puts on her dress
20:03
for that for the night. It's also in that hint blue
20:06
color, that protective blue color that is indicative of the
20:11
Geechee people. And as well, I gave her a little
20:16
feather headband. I just felt like like the
20:20
feathers and the she has an ostrich feather in her hair too.
20:24
All of those little things would.
20:27
Remind us without overwhelming. The character would just remind
20:31
us that she had this connection to the spirits and I didn't want
20:37
it to overwhelm or overpower the scene because she's so
20:41
brilliantly, brilliantly played Annie.
20:44
I just really wanted to support it.
20:47
We have to talk about the Juke joint scene that has the world
20:50
ablaze right now. It's this incredible cinematic
20:54
moment in which Sammy's music brings together the spirits of
20:57
both past and future through song and dance.
20:59
I gassed Ruth when I, when you know, you see that first costume
21:04
and I'm like, what's going on here?
21:06
And it's, you know, 2 minutes later, you're having one of the
21:09
one of my favorite moments I've seen in film in the past five
21:12
years. It is so beautiful.
21:13
I have to imagine though, this for the costume department must
21:18
have been a lot of work to. Bring together all these
21:21
costumes. Yes, we, you know, we made the
21:25
girl who is the past spirit, Perlene's past spirit and she
21:31
beads on her and she's got the beaded like poncho top and the
21:36
headband. And you know, we, we painted and
21:41
we aged those so that they would look like, you know, the cowrie
21:45
shells and and then we had the dancer with the mask.
21:51
It's called a Zoli dancer. It's from West Africa and we we
22:00
stripped a lot of fabrics, a lot of Ankara fabrics and over dyed
22:04
it to purple to you know, bring about this whole magical dance
22:10
dance costume from West Africa. And then we had Pappatito who is
22:16
Islam player come through and we gave him a big agbada.
22:21
We had so many costumes. We had future spirits walking
22:27
through, we had Masai dancers walking through, we had hip hop
22:32
and at we had Memphis Juker. We had a girl who was, you know,
22:41
and doing some hip hop moves and a little cheerleader skirt and a
22:45
little small short little bomber jacket.
22:48
And right next to her is an African woman in the same style
22:53
or a short skirt, but it's made of raffia and she's doing some
22:58
of the same dance moves. So these connections that we
23:01
were making from music to dance to cultural, it's like an
23:08
acronym, anachronisms, things that you you automatically draw
23:13
yourself to yourself to or become a part of your creative
23:17
process that harken back to your ancestor.
23:22
Ancestor. Yeah.
23:24
Yeah, I could rewatch that scene 1000 times.
23:27
And I still don't think I'll. See everything?
23:30
Yeah, I mean the and then you go to the big bonfire and you see
23:36
them again, but you actually see more.
23:39
So there were there were costumes that I just made-up.
23:43
You know, I had answers come in and I said, show me the movie
23:46
you're going to do. And once they show me their
23:49
their moves, I kind of went, you know, into it, creating
23:54
something that was, you know, at the bonfire.
23:58
It was definitely like mystical, you know, and so you didn't have
24:03
to be as locked into being, you know, oh, this is authentic Zulu
24:08
or this is authentic Turkana. You know, you could play a
24:12
little bit. So I, I gave this one dancer a
24:17
big black feather headdress and you know, I love when we get to
24:22
the bonfire and I see him moving, but then right beside
24:26
him is the Chinese traditional dancers and the scarf dancer in
24:32
the pink and tiger, a Chinese tiger.
24:37
So beautiful. It was so beautiful.
24:40
So to mix all of this, all of these cultures together was was
24:45
an opportunity, was blessing and and was a joy to create.
24:50
Yeah, I, I can't even imagine. I imagine also like you reading
24:53
that script and being like, we're doing what now?
24:55
Yeah. It was written in there.
24:58
And when we read it, like, I mean, I think in the first week
25:01
we got together at a production meeting, we were like, did you
25:04
read that scene? Oh my God.
25:07
And I'm thinking, don't mess this up, Ruth.
25:09
Don't mess it up. So I was like focused on it from
25:14
the start with everything else we had to get.
25:16
Right, yeah. Speaking of, let's talk about
25:19
the vampires for a little bit. Big vampire fans, especially in
25:22
this podcast, I feel like we talk about vampires all the
25:24
time, but the vampires we see in the Sinners, they're not typical
25:28
vampire, you know, they don't have time to throw on a 8 foot
25:31
black cloak and walk around and yeah, so.
25:35
Bright red. Yeah.
25:37
All right. No, no Ishioka vampires this
25:40
time. So I'm curious if you and your
25:43
team ever chatted about that conversation.
25:45
They're like, what? What did your original
25:47
conversations about the vampires look like?
25:49
Did you kind of how how'd you get into?
25:51
That when, when Jack came in, who plays Remic, we, we knew
25:58
that his first scene he'd have, you know, he'd be in this state
26:02
of, you know, distress. So it was simple tank top and
26:07
and pants, you know, from that period.
26:10
And but he said when he arrives at the Juke joint, he wanted to
26:15
look cleaned up and he actually wanted brand new shoes.
26:20
They don't look new and all that dirt.
26:22
But we gave him the this, you know, whole cleaned up look
26:26
because he's trying to get in and he'd look presentable.
26:30
And so the same with the Bert and Joan and Bert who are like
26:40
kind of his sidekicks there. You there were more scenes in
26:45
their cabin. You know, they were kind of
26:47
living up in the Appalachians, you know, and right in the
26:51
middle of nowhere. It's a wonderful introduced
26:54
introduction to their little house on the Prairie there.
26:58
And so so the red, white and blue color palette continue.
27:06
There's a lot of work where a lot of blue, which I think for,
27:10
you know, the way Autumn Duran acapa of the way she was
27:15
shooting it really did, you know, give it the palette like
27:19
real cool tone. And then you saw that when you
27:23
do see the red, it's just like vibrant.
27:26
And and so Jack and I, you know, we, you know, discussed, you
27:32
know, his, his dress up, you know, from arriving earlier that
27:38
day and in the costume and the clothes that were burning off of
27:42
his back. And with Joan and Bert too, we
27:46
cleaned up, cleaned them up, but they still seem they still
27:50
remain very simple in the color palette.
27:54
I think that's what's so terrifying about them is how
27:56
pristine, you know, you look out this door and they're just
27:59
staying there looking like they just left the dry cleaners and
28:02
you're like, OK, I don't. We come in, Can we come in?
28:08
The worst but very talented music players though I will say.
28:12
Oh, I know. Yeah, pick poor Robin Clean.
28:15
Yeah, it would. It would be hard for me not to
28:17
go outside, I have to admit. But you know, I'm I'm easily
28:21
convinced. Let's talk about the blood.
28:24
One of my favorite parts of costume design is aging and
28:27
dying. The breakdown There is a little
28:29
bit of sweat and dirt and a whole lot of blood in the
28:33
center. So talk about your team and the
28:35
agers and dyers and how they. Brought us all the brilliant
28:38
team led by the brilliant Sharon Flavelle with Sharon on Black
28:45
Panther films and on Roots and we go way back and I just love
28:52
how she approaches her work from an artistic point of view.
28:56
We're always thinking about art and and so with the blood, it
29:00
was one layer like from the from her, her lab, you know, from her
29:07
area with her team. And then to set to add the
29:11
additional layers because, you know, we were very much in touch
29:15
with what Ryan was looking for in terms of, you know, bloody
29:19
scenes. And we just never seem to have
29:22
enough blood. But also the aging was very
29:26
important to me that you see the hogwoods guys come up at the end
29:30
and you know, they're sweaty underneath their arms and stuff.
29:34
That's not by accident. We have to Add all that sweat.
29:37
I was constantly constantly like refilling costumers like water
29:43
bottles for sweat because I knew that this film stock was
29:47
allowing us to see like great details and, you know, just like
29:51
the gloss of the skin, you know, and the sweat on the shirts.
29:55
It was very important and and even if and as I said, we built
30:01
90% of this picture. So things that are made look
30:06
brand new and they have to go through the process of aging and
30:10
dying and sharing small team was able to get it all done.
30:15
It was really, really a tough job for them and for me, for all
30:20
of us. Right.
30:22
Anyone touching the costumes? I'm a big fan of Ludwig Gornsen.
30:30
Another repeat collaborative. You and Ryan Coogler, music is
30:34
like its own character in this film, so I have to wonder if
30:37
music played a role in your process as well when looking at
30:40
the costume. Oh my God, absolutely.
30:43
I played the Blues in our shop, in our workshop.
30:49
Ludwig and Serena's wife, their office was right next door to
30:52
ours, so Serena was constantly coming over and telling us about
30:57
the real Blues players that were playing certain parts.
31:00
There's a lot of musicians in this film and we, they would
31:04
come from all over. They were characters as well.
31:08
And, you know, I just, I just felt like we were tapping into
31:16
musically, you know, our our ancestral spirits just by having
31:22
these talented musicians come and bless our film with their.
31:26
And so, yeah, like pale pale Moon and, you know, dressing
31:35
Perlene and then coming in, dressing the piano player who
31:39
was from or dressing a guitarist who flew in from, you know,
31:47
Shreveport or someplace like that.
31:49
It was so amazing to work that closely with the content of the
31:57
film and the music and the musicians as well who were
32:01
coming in talking about the loo as I'm Buddy Guy, you know, just
32:06
meeting the great Buddy Guy and getting getting him all dressed
32:10
and it's a it was a real pleasure and and a blessing to
32:15
do this film. Yeah, I mean, before I even saw
32:19
the film, people were texting me and like, you're going to be
32:21
downloading the soundtrack on Spotify before you even see it
32:25
and. It feels like a rock concert
32:27
towards the Just like fire, and it's so.
32:31
Funny how something so horrifying could still be so fun
32:34
and energetic and feeling positive I guess at the same
32:39
time. Yeah.
32:43
Well, OK, another spoiler warning.
32:44
Let's talk about the epilogue, this powerful moment set in 1992
32:49
when we see an older Sammy, now prolific Blues musician,
32:52
reunited with Stack and Mary. I love Stack and Mary's costumes
32:57
because I felt like Ruth got to play right here with these
33:01
costumes. This just felt like a Kinza,
33:03
like a roof moment. So how did you approach
33:06
designing this time jump? Obviously you still had to be
33:09
very conscious of the story, but you didn't want to take two over
33:12
the top these. Are things that you just can't
33:14
do on your own. I can't just put a Coogee
33:17
sweater at the end of the movie without having multiple
33:21
conversations with Ryan and Ryan, the one who really wanted
33:25
that Coogee sweater. It's like it's, it's called The
33:29
Gambler and it's what Biggie Smalls wore in one of his
33:33
videos. So, so you know, we went to a
33:38
collector and he had the original sweater and it was very
33:42
that we not have like one of those remakes.
33:46
So we, we examined all of that and had some ideas for Mary as
33:52
well. You know, the, you know, the
33:55
leather jacket that she wore. And you know, all of that was
34:02
things that came up for Ryan, even though he was like born in
34:07
the 80s, I think he knew everything about the 90s,
34:12
everything like better than I did.
34:15
And I was a costume designer in the night.
34:18
He is so true. You know, he wanted, you know,
34:22
Abdul, you know, he want, he wanted something that felt very
34:26
Paula Abdul for, for, for Mary. And so I knew what that was.
34:31
So I just went right to it. But I was like, here, this guy
34:34
was like five years old when Paula Abdul was doing all of
34:38
that. And he could he could stand on
34:42
set and like name every sweatshirt, everything that we
34:47
had there that was authentic from the 90s.
34:49
He knew like the brands and everything.
34:52
It was like fascinating to hear him talk about his 90s
34:56
knowledge. It's.
35:01
So it was so fun. Like you're asking him a serious
35:04
question and then he looks down at that at an extra and he's
35:08
like, is that a BCBG top, you know?
35:11
And you're like, yeah, Oh my God, you know.
35:15
Yeah, do you want a job on the costume team next film?
35:19
Totally, totally. Ryan could be in the costume
35:22
department. Well, that brings us to the end
35:25
of Sinners. For those out there that haven't
35:28
seen a film, which I find that hard to believe, what do you
35:30
hope audiences will take away from seeing Sinners for their
35:33
first time? That costumes is an art form,
35:38
and the art form is about color, texture, and most of all
35:45
storytelling. And when you approach every
35:49
film, you have to immerse in the art form and that's knowing what
35:55
the DP is going to do, telling the story from the script,
35:59
having a collaborative spirit. And so I hope people take away
36:04
that this film was massively collaborative and and our great
36:11
writer, director, producer Ryan Coogler killed it.
36:16
Yeah, it's, I mean, it shows on screen.
36:17
You could just feel that everything was very cohesive and
36:20
everyone really believed in this project.
36:22
And I think that comes through just like most of the things you
36:26
and Ryan have done. Before I let you go, Ruth, can I
36:30
ask you a question about Vogue World?
36:31
I actually got to see you speak a few weeks ago at the Chateau.
36:37
You got to speak next to, of course, one Ariana Phillips and
36:41
Colleen Atwood, Governor Gavin Newsom and Anna Wintour for the
36:46
launch of Vogue World Hollywood, in which all ticket proceeds for
36:50
the event will be going to the Entertainment Community Fund.
36:52
I just want to ask you, you know, how you got involved in
36:55
this and you know what you're excited about with this project.
37:00
Well, they picked me to be involved, and I was honored to
37:03
do something that would help the costumers and costume designers
37:09
who were affected by the fires. I was, I was energized by it and
37:15
it's gonna be a really amazing event, runway fashion show on a
37:23
studio lot. We're paired with well known
37:27
designers. I believe I'm paired with
37:29
Pharrell for Louis Vuitton and I'm excited about what we're
37:35
gonna what we're gonna do together.
37:37
As well as the show is inspired by the work of costume
37:43
designers. So fashion is actually following
37:47
the costume designers and what inspires them is going to
37:53
inspire this like fashion that we're gonna create together.
37:57
So it's it's a big step in how costumes and fashion can
38:04
collaborate and I'm excited for it.
38:08
Yeah, I've, I've, it's such a great cause and I'm so happy to
38:12
see everyone coming together on this.
38:14
And I just can't wait to see what comes next from it.
38:17
Costume designer Ruthie Carter, thank you so much for talking
38:19
with me. This has been so much fun.
38:20
I could talk to you about. I mean, we could.
38:22
What other movies do you want to talk about?
38:24
Let's do it right now. You are in London, we will let
38:31
you go, but we hope you'll come back and join us for the next
38:33
film. All right, I'll be back.
38:36
Thank you again. Thank you, Ruth.